Guest guest Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 Dear Dr.Naveen, The points enumerated by U are certainly important.Blue cross at chennai has SOPs for ABC,which can be helpful for new organisations indulging in ABC and ARV prog.Animal Birth Control Rules 2001 Notified by Govt of India also take up all the things required and it has clearly mentioned about Role of Local authorities. If This is implemented with sincere efforts,the Rabies will Go down. Dr.Sandeep K.Jain On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 Dr.Naveen Pandey wrote : > > Dear friends, thanks to everyone for participating in a healthy discussion. AAPN has once again proved to be a good platform for raising doubts and get intelligibility of vision. I feel that in the current matter I did not get the clear reply to my doubts. Anyway, coming back to the “round up” issue, I’ll love to share our official strategy at the Kalimpong Animal Shelter (KAS), INDIA ( www.his-india.org.au) with you. We have formulated 14 point criterion to decide if a dog should be picked up (rounded up!) which I’m enlisting here: > > > Do we have well trained catching squad (personnel)? > Do we have least traumatic dog catching equipments/ techniques to be used? > Do we have proper transporting mode/vehicle for the dogs to be transported to the desired location? > Do we have dog-escape-proof fencing at the site? > Do the dogs (individually) get enough required space inside the premises? > Do the dogs get protection from inclement weather inside the premises? > Do we have fund to spay and vaccinate all the dogs? > Will the dogs get proper veterinary care while staying in the premises? > Do we have proper record keeping in place so that the dogs can be returned to the same place from where they were brought? > Can we find a home or return at the same place? > Can we adequately feed and water all the dogs? > Can the premises be kept clean and hygienic most of the time? > Can a week dog be protected from a stronger dog in the group if housed in a common enclosure? > Can we convince the local mass about the very purpose of picking a dog? > > We at KAS do not catch dogs unless we meet all the 14 criteria positively and I trust most of the organizations do the same. No one has a right to pick up a dog unless future course of action is known or ensured. > > Regarding the village stray dogs and their ABC, I personally feel that the direction has to be from urban areas to the village areas and not vice-versa. Villages are not ignored and ought not to be ignored. Starting an ABC in villages would always get a second priority owing to the fact that the availability of dogs (density) in urban areas is invariably greater than the rural areas. A successful ABC in an adjoining city acts as a “model” for village ABC. KAS has been doing ABC/AR in remote villages in the Himalayas by setting up temporary units for a week in the villages (even in villages making sure that the dogs recover completely from the surgical trauma). This method got mentioned in a book called “Christine’s Ark” by John Little (Pan Macmillan) on page 277. > > Dr Chinny Krishna has stressed innumerable times that mass killing does not work, citing failure of Madras Municipal Corporation and I emphatically trust that no one has even slightest doubt about it now. But the level of sincerity, commitment and professionalism will determine the future course of ABC in India and subsequently in other Asian countries. Leading organizations like Help In Suffering, Jaipur, Blue Cross Chennai, VSPCA and others, need to formulate and promulgate guidelines and principles for ABC/AR in Indian conditions, deriving from their experience and expertise accumulated over more than a decade. This set of principles would help the third generation of animal welfare activists (to which I belong) to tread the right path. > > Regards and Best wishes > > Dr Naveen > Kalimpong Animal Shelter > W.B. INDIA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >debasischak wrote: > MY search < " WHO " WILL HELP ?> started off with getting the WB Govt. and hopefully will culminate into W.H.O help (like Pulse Polio with Rotary International help). Indian health care is almost 100% foreign fund supported, So keep praying with me (my idea of giving it to Reuters is specifically to draw the international aid agencies' attention to the pathetic state of managment of a killer disease affecting HUMANs ,as my experience tells me that a vast majority (both in Developed as well as Under-developed nations )is not interested in 'just saving animals'for the sake of it ! > >- > Pradeep Nath >Saturday, August 12, 2006 8:52 am >Re: Rabies > > > Dear Debashis, > > > > Yes it is wonderful with the Govt. chipping in and it is > > actually they who should be assisting in the best way possible. > > But I am skeptical in giving the full responsibilities to them > > and have the NGOs involved in the whole episode of observing the > > Dog Rules. > > > > The Govt. of AP is also showing great interest in the > > impelementation of this scheme throughout the State and we had a > > high level meeting but that is almost two years now. In between > > they tried to issue a State GO to kill dogs throughout the State > > and also tried using people to kill dogs in the night and these > > all were thwarted by us through every mode possible. ANd this > > shows the sincerety of the Govt is badly missing. > > > > At no point of time has the ABC given a wholehearted chance to > > be implemented through one reason or the other and to show really > > that it works. It is of no great reason to prove in one place in > > the State trying hard whereas the remaining 99% has nothing to be > > done and therefore the sly killings etc., is on. We have now > > the pressure and the support to do ABC even as far as four > > Districts which maybe more than 5000 villages five major > > Municipal Corporations. We have the capability and the endurance > > to do it but not adequate rescource to run through and we have > > influenced in these areas to stop . But are of the opinion that > > AWOs present are not upto the issue. > > > > Even as far as Sullurpeta about 700 kms we have stopped it there > > and pursue to to do the ABC camp. > > > > So it does works where the NGOs are strong enough to do it and > > through Corporates also but over all otherwise the dogs am > > afraid are killed in India and that counts easily 90%. > > > > But these killings have not helped reduce the incidences of > > rabies therefore ABC must be followed and I REITERATE A ONE YEAR > > CAMP LIKE THE PULSE POLIO TARGET MUST BE ADOPTED FIRST WITH > > VACCINATION AND THE OPERATIONS. And for this we need to act > > fast. Who will help? > > > > Pradeep. > > > > debasischak wrote: Dear , > > In india the basic problem is overpopulation (inluding > > infiltration from neighbouring countries). So any disease, like > > TB,AIDS,LEPROSY,DENGUE,MALARIA,POLIO becomes endemic unless given > > widspread attention not only for curative aspect but a sustained > > preventive measure. In case of RABIES, it is not yet made a > > NOTIFIABLE disease and hence the thrust and focus is not there at > > the Govt. level. It is virtually treated as a liability of Animal > > Lovers (NGO or Just groups of compassionate citizens) to save and > > protect the animals. Even AWBI is not given enough direction and > > support by the Govt.(except for a short stint when Mrs.Maneka > > Gandhi was the minister). Some groups/NGOs do get some foreign > > fundng but that too is mostly urban oriented. My effort through > > my communication to the Chief Minister was to bring rural areas > > into Govt. focus and the reutrs report indicates that Highest > > level of the health dept.of the Local Govt. has decided to take > > ABC seriously. > > Regards, Debasis > > ps.In the area of operation of my organizations (People for > > Animals Calcutta & Compassionate Crusaders Trust) there is not a > > single case of killing by the authorites as a solution to " STRAY > > DOG MENACE " as they call it. All the dogs inpounded/captured by > > authorities are handed over to us.For us FUND is the only > > problem, because Govt. support is negligible. > > > > - > > Weintraub > > Saturday, August 12, 2006 0:47 am > > Re: Rabies > > > > > Putting this dialogue with all responses in full back to AAPN > > > (please scroll down for Pradeep's two posts which I don't think > > > were sent previously to AAPN). I think regardless of what is > > > happening in each NGO's jurisdiction (i.e. no killing in some > > very > > > thankfully as Debasis says) there is still killing in other > > areas > > > in India (particularly rural) and is this being addressed as > > each > > > NGO is so overburdened themselves? So again from the original > > > article (at below of these posts) if: > > > > > > " India reports at least 20,500 deaths from rabies every year out > > > of 50,000 fatalities globally, WHO data shows. But experts say > > > many deaths go unreported " . > > > > > > That is almost 1/2 of world fatalities! I wonder what were the > > > rabies deaths before the ABC city programs had a big impact. Or > > > are the NGO's losing this race to fix the street dogs in India > > and > > > are rabies death actually on the increase in other areas? This > > is > > > a serious situation! If the animal welfare laws are already in > > > place in India then all that is needed is a coordinated push to > > > even more aggressively solve these problems. And India can > > teach > > > the other Asian nations the humane approach. But since NGO's > > are > > > so over burdened in India maybe they also need a more > > coordinated > > > help such as from HSUS, etc. All of these are obvious questions > > > but none of them are simply answered or solved but maybe with > > all > > > coming together it still can be. > > > > > > p.s. Another problem is what is going to happen to the > > increasing > > > problem of abandoned pet dogs, this is a new one for India and > > > other developing countries, and will the NGO's have to start > > > euthanizing them as the west does since the adoption > > > infrastructure probably cannot possibly keep up. > > > > > > - > > > > > > Friday, August 11, 2006 4:35 AM > > > Re: Rabies > > > > > > > > > > As I wrote the state Govt is also participating in ABC, even > > > using human > > > > hospitals for surgery , NO KILLING ! > > > > > > aapn , " " > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Debashishda, > > > I think the question was > > > intended to find > > > out the exact meaning of the expression 'round up'. You have not > > > addressed > > > that in your reply and I would agree that the expression is > > > confusing. > > > 'Round up' literally means to seek out and bring together. I > > > recently worked > > > on a story on rabies and found no evidence that health workers > > > were seeking > > > out and bringing together 'thousands of dogs.' Also what does > > > thousands > > > mean? One thousand? Two thousand? Ten thousand? Seeking out and > > > bringing > > > together thousands of dogs sounds an odd proposition, to say the > > > least, > > > principally because such a move would serve very little purpose > > > unless you > > > have the resources to vaccinate them en masse. > > > Regards, > > > > > > - > > > Pradeep Nath > > > Friday, August 11, 2006 12:19 AM > > > Re: Rabies > > > > > > > > > We should never allow the government people alone to do the ABC > > > without NGOs > > > involvement in one way or the other because they can use this to > > > kill all the dogs. > > > > > > Yes dogs throughout India is being killed and only where the > > > strong NGO > > > present is there it does not happen. Rural 100%. That is why I > > > take the > > > chance of natural disasters to visit and enter into their hearts. > > > > > > 60000 dogs in Greater Visakha which includes 30000 of the city > > > where we > > > covered over 25000 dogs now. > > > > > > Just want to help the street dogs. > > > > > > Pradeep. > > > > > > > > > - > > > Weintraub > > > Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:46 PM > > > Re: Rabies > > > > > > > > > Thanks for these comments. Debasis, it is fantastic than part > > of > > > a human > > > hospital can be used for ABC! And I congratulate you for your > > > efforts but I > > > am still unclear if Indian authorities are outright killing > > street > > > dogs in > > > India and if so where and how. (At the Kalachakra in AP in > > > January the > > > Dalai Lama remarked that he was saddened that the authorities > > had > > > killed the > > > street dogs before the ceremony -- how much better is that then > > > what they > > > did in Greece before the Olympics?) > > > > > > so what Dr. Naveen was questioning from the news clipping and > > > still sort of > > > unanswered said: > > > > > > Health workers have launched a new drive to round up thousands > > of > > > stray dogs > > > in West Bengal to counter rabies, with concern rising because of > > a > > > shortage > > > of vaccine. > > > > > > So are these dogs being sent to animal shelter for ABC or are > > they > > > being > > > destroyed? > > > > > > And if India is reporting 1/2 of the global rabies fatalities > > that > > > is quite > > > a dismal figure indeed? > > > > > > > > > Pradeep it is quite depressing to me to read that 60,000 more > > > street dogs > > > may need help just in Visakhapatnam. And any time the > > authorities > > > can come > > > crashing down. > > > > > > While dogs with guardians (i.e. " pets " ) are protected in the > > west, > > > stray or > > > surrended dogs are certainly not and several millions of dogs > > are > > > gassed > > > annually in the states. Certainly it was amazing and > > wonderful > > > for me to > > > see ear notched and healthy looking street dogs in the modern > > > Indian cities. > > > I have not seen street dogs in the states since the late 60's! > > So > > > how much > > > longer will any modern city tolerate any street dogs? > > > > > > I do think this news from China may have recuperations in India, > > > just hope > > > they are on the positive side for the animals i.e. China gets > > > ideas for > > > helping instead of killing dogs and not vica versa -- India > > losing > > > their > > > patience with the ABC program! > > > > > > As to my understanding the AWBI is somewhat ineffectual, so who > > > will take up > > > this issue before a total crack down to the detriment of our dog > > > friends. > > > IPAN had quite a situation when a somewhat famous personality > > was > > > bitten. > > > So as everyone can agree it is a race of time to help the street > > dogs.> > > > I greatly respect everyone's fantastic work helping dogs all > > > these years. kind regards, > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > Pradeep Nath > > > > Friday, August 11, 2006 7:52 am > > > > Re: Rabies > > > > > > > >> Dear Debashis, > > > >> > > > Presuming the rounded up dogs are being eliminated then. > > > >> > > > It is true the assistance from AWBI is very unpredictable and > > > untimely upsetting all the good works done. There are many > > issues > > > that needs and can be easily improved at AWBI and I do not know > > > who will listen to these suggestions or think about them at all. > > > But to mention that AWBI has been more regular in ABC grants > > than > > > before so you can understand how the issues are . > > > >> > > > >> Even here we face the threat everytime and this due to lack > > of > > > continuity of funds. > > > >> > > > >> I feel that the ABC is a God sent gift for all beings involved > > > >> and to achieve this it must be done in a time frame and vigorous > > > >> and then the results will be shown. Public do not like to wait > > > >> for long term is my uderstanding. ANy breaks gives a severe > > jolt.> >> We need to think from the people who hate the street > > dogs and > > > >> they are many. The awareness must be made a part of the > > grant for > > > >> this particular one. > > > >> > > > >> And the local authority or the government is not happy to spend > > > >> any money for the dogs. They are happy to kill the dogs for > > > >> Rs.10/ per dog whatever way possible and also this helps them to > > > >> achieve their first happiness even for a few months before new > > > >> dogs apppear that the problem is solved. The Commissioner has > > > >> done a good job as the public are happy with this short cut > > method.> >> > > > >> I face this here all the time and I counter with continuity and > > > >> aggressive method, legal and lobbyings but for how long. Now > > > >> Visakhaptanm is like Hyderabad expanded five times and we are > > > >> alone. The dog population could be approaching more than 60000 > > > >> easily or much more with these expanded places. How are we to > > > >> monitor all these and do the operations. We need a lot of money > > > >> and infrastructure and the local authorities will not help with > > > >> any medicines. It all will mean a failure. AWBI will not be > > able> >> to fund this much. I appreciate the limitations of AWBI > > and their > > > >> great contributions and from here we need to push further is > > > all I > > > >> say to make things more effective and perspective otherwise > > things> >> can go against the scheme very easily. > > > >> > > > >> So the only way out has to be a Government level understanding > > > >> and mandatory which is by the Bill passed or understood. > > > >> Governements and local authorities differ from places to places. > > > >> ANd even if they agree we have to compromise with some of their > > > >> backdoor policies of killing targeted numbers daily etc., > > > >> > > > >> I took the opportunity to inform through aapn that HSUS and > > > >> other big groups can make the best of their money when > > > >> coordinating with Indian Govenement and cooperating to involve > > > >> throughout the country a massive , efficient fast spays with > > > >> massive awareness campaign. It is not just the aid which India > > > >> can invlove but it is the convincements. India could be made the > > > >> launching pad to open the eyes of the other Asian countries and > > > >> after proving this right in statistics other countries could be > > > >> validly pursued. vaccination to stop the killings as they are > > > >> not convinced this will reduce the dog population and this > > has to > > > >> be a continuous affair. So a more pragmmatic approach is > > > >> necessary. Opportunities must be taken care off. > > > >> > > > >> Maybe we need to discuss this and all decide how to comeup with > > > >> this suggestion of agreed and do it now. We have the best laws > > > >> for the animals and we must justify that. > > > >> > > > >> Warm regards, > > > >> Pradeep. > > > >> > > > >> debasischak wrote: > > > >> For the last ten years only a few NGOs were doing ABC/AR, that > > > >> too in urban areas, now after I approaced the Chief Minster of > > > >> West Bengal to bring this issue under the perview of Health > > > >> Dept.'s preventive health care agenda (all through it has been > > > >> under the Animal Resource/Veterinary Dept. with zero Govt. > > > >> effort). So much so, that in one district hospital a portion of > > > >> the Human hospital is being used for ABC surgery. Let us hope the > > > >> state Govt.s everywhere (not only municipalities ,upto Village > > > >> Panchayat level, as in Pulse Polio), take it up as a Govt. > > > >> program. Even Animal Welfare Board of India is playing a very > > > >> dismal role in giving actual support(logistics/finance) to the > > > >> program.- Debasis > > > >> > > > >> - > > > >> Weintraub > > > >> Friday, August 11, 2006 1:16 am > > > >> Re: Rabies > > > >> > > > >> > Yes, please kindly add my inquiry to the below one as read > > > this post > > > >> > previously and was wondering myself! > > > >> > thanks, Weintraub, Seattle, WA USA > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > Hi, I'm unable to understand what " round up thousands of stray > > > >> > dogs " ( by the health workers) stands for in the first > > paragraph> >> > of the mentioned news. What are the plans after > > rounding up? Hope > > > >> > Dr Chinny or Debasisda to answer. > > > >> > > > > >> > Regards > > > >> > > > > >> > Dr Naveen > > > >> > Shelter vet > > > >> > Kalimpong Animal Shelter, W.B. > > > >> > > > > >> Bengal health workers round up stray dogs to counter rabies > > > > Thu Aug 3, 2006 11:13 AM IST > > > > > > > > By Bappa Majumdar > > > > > > > > KOLKATA (Reuters) - Health workers have launched a new drive to > > > > round up thousands of stray dogs in West Bengal to counter > > > > rabies, with concern rising because of a shortage of vaccine. > > > > > > > > In West Bengal alone, over 40,000 people go to government > > > > hospitals every year after being bitten by dogs, but few complete > > > > the required course of treatment -- partly because vaccines > > are > > > in short > > > > supply, officials say. > > > > > > > > " We are left with no option but to control the dog population as > > > > rabies is spiralling out of control and no vaccines are available > > > > to treat thousands of victims, " said K.C. Barui, the director > > of > > > health> services in the eastern state. > > > > > > > > India reports at least 20,500 deaths from rabies every year out > > > > of 50,000fatalities globally, WHO data shows. But experts say many > > > > deaths go unreported. > > > > > > > > Poor people cannot afford to buy vaccines, which cost around > > > > 1,500 rupees($32) for a full course from private hospitals > > and > > > chemists.> > > > > In towns and cities across India, stray dogs are a common sight > > > > and often chase pedestrians, cyclists and cars. > > > > > > > > Kolkata alone is home to over 100,000 street dogs of which > > > 65,000 are > > > > potential carriers of the rabies virus, officials say, adding > > > > that an 80 percent shortfall of anti-rabies vaccines in West > > Bengal> > reflects a similar situation in other parts of India. > > > > > > > > " Controlling the dog population by vasectomy and isolating rabid > > > > dogs seems to be the only way out for India now, " Prabhakar > > > > Chatterjee, a senior WHO official, said in Kolkata. > > > > > > > > Animal welfare groups say they are hard pressed. > > > > > > > > " Our team of workers are hardly getting any sleep as we are > > > > catching dogs all the time, " said Debasis Chakravarti, founder of > > > > the Compassionate Crusaders Trust (CCT). > > > > > > > > He added that the CCT gets hundreds of calls a week from frantic > > > > residents in Kolkata asking for help after being bitten by a dog. > > > > > > > > If a person does not start the vaccination process within hours > > > > of a dog bite, they can die of rabies within days or weeks. > > > > > > > > © Reuters 2006. . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Mail Beta. > > > > > All New Mail – Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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