Guest guest Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 Personally I am totally against the use of violence to further the aims of animal rights both from a theoretical and a practical point of view. I am convinced that ALF type actions do far more harm than good to our cause. But the rhetoric is beguiling to some and should be subject to reasoned debate. As moderator, I think it is useful to give the light of day to extreme views so that they can be argued against openly. Sweeping such ideas under the carpet can only encourage them to ferment. John, Moderator, AAPN. > > aapn [aapn ] On > Behalf Of Col. D. Brewin > Thursday, March 15, 2007 6:03 PM > AAPN > Keith Mann and his book > > I see that our sometimes valued correspondent, Azam Siddiqui > is at it again, showing support for extremism. > I can't adequately express my disappointment in AAPN in > permitting their hitherto most excellent venue for the good > of animals in Asia to be used to show implicit support for > extremists such as Keith Mann. > Having, as a soldier, spent much of my life dealing with > terrorism, I can find absolutely no excuses, whatever the > temptations, for using any forms of violence to bolster a good cause. > May I suggest that the many valued members of this > organisation who appreciate the benefits that have arisen for > animals since its inception (without encouraging > extremism) should call for closer monitoring? > > Dennis Brewin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 > Having, as a soldier, spent much of my life dealing with > terrorism, I can find absolutely no excuses, whatever the > temptations, for using any forms of violence to bolster a > good cause Dear Col.D.Brewin, Thanks for your message. As a media person I feel it would be even more appropriate to get hold of a copy. Perhaps it could give us a better angle to study the mindset of the people in the WEST and back here in India. We have so far no cases of extremism as compared to what is happening there. The book has not been banned in India. I have been advocating the rights of animals in India for more than 15years and have never ever come to a point of extremism. By reading the book one turns an extremist, is a very dishonoring statement to be making in this esteemed group which has seen many good things happening for animals. I have been wielding my camera for a news television channel here in the Country`s utmost Militancy-Terrorism prone region for nine years. I never felt the need to pick up Guns, not even for animal liberation. If that would have been the case, all news media people reading books, journals written by extremists would have transformed into one. You cannot stop the media from exploring what facts are hidden inside the book. Can you ? We ain't no kids here. Azam aapn , " Col. D. Brewin " <dbrewin wrote: > > I see that our sometimes valued correspondent, Azam Siddiqui > is at it again, showing support for extremism. > I can't adequately express my disappointment in AAPN in > permitting their hitherto most excellent venue for the good > of animals in Asia to be used to show implicit support for > extremists such as Keith Mann. > Having, as a soldier, spent much of my life dealing with > terrorism, I can find absolutely no excuses, whatever the > temptations, for using any forms of violence to bolster a > good cause. > May I suggest that the many valued members of this > organisation who appreciate the benefits that have arisen > for animals since its inception (without encouraging > extremism) should call for closer monitoring? > > Dennis Brewin > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 I don't think that showing interest in a book written by ALF member is supporting extremism. I am not supportive of any form of terrorism, yet I am keen on reading the book. The book will cover a lot of animal rights issues too. Also, in a public forum there will be people with different view points will co-exists. Just the way we had scores of meat eaters at the Asia for Animals conference (who missed their daily meat). We have some who promote dairy as a way to save cows. People with different view points will exist in a common forum. We must learn to live with it. regards manoj oswal - Col. D. Brewin AAPN Thursday, March 15, 2007 1:53 PM Keith Mann and his book I see that our sometimes valued correspondent, Azam Siddiqui is at it again, showing support for extremism. I can't adequately express my disappointment in AAPN in permitting their hitherto most excellent venue for the good of animals in Asia to be used to show implicit support for extremists such as Keith Mann. Having, as a soldier, spent much of my life dealing with terrorism, I can find absolutely no excuses, whatever the temptations, for using any forms of violence to bolster a good cause. May I suggest that the many valued members of this organisation who appreciate the benefits that have arisen for animals since its inception (without encouraging extremism) should call for closer monitoring? Dennis Brewin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 I hope people understand the meanings of the words they use: *ex·trem·ist : * One who advocates or resorts to measures beyond the norm *ter·ror·ism* The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons. --\ --\ -- Just like to add a comment here that going by the words used, there is a thin but very distinct line dividing extremism (here passion) and terrorism, it all depends from which end you are looking at it! I strongly believe that people in this field are here to save lives, help the suffering (mind you not for personal or political reasons) and if they push hard to achieve this, I look at it as passion and not terrorism. You can call me an extremist too because people *ACTUALLY* DOING WORK for animals *on* field, not just frm offices or from the comforts of their homes, know that at times we need to deviate from the 'norms' to get things done! but DO NOT induldge in terrorism! Its my humble appeal to people here to understand that we are all here for the same cause and not tag people with loose terms as it creates a sick impression of the things we do for animals! I have mentioned this earlier - if we have not understood each other and realized why we are on this forum, its pointless to go to an outsider (read 'not-an-animal-lover'), to preach love for animals. etc and expect somethign to come of it! Its my humble appeal to the moderator that such useless mails to be played down in the better interests of the common goal people claim they have! Thanks, Pablo On 3/15/07, azam24x7 <azam24x7 wrote: > > > Having, as a soldier, spent much of my life dealing with > > terrorism, I can find absolutely no excuses, whatever the > > temptations, for using any forms of violence to bolster a > > good cause > > Dear Col.D.Brewin, > > Thanks for your message. > > As a media person I feel it would be even more appropriate to get hold > of a copy. Perhaps it could give us a better angle to study the > mindset of the people in the WEST and back here in India. We have so > far no cases of extremism as compared to what is happening there. > > The book has not been banned in India. > > I have been advocating the rights of animals in India for more than > 15years and have never ever come to a point of extremism. > > By reading the book one turns an extremist, is a very dishonoring > statement to be making in this esteemed group which has seen many good > things happening for animals. > > I have been wielding my camera for a news television channel here in > the Country`s utmost Militancy-Terrorism prone region for nine years. > I never felt the need to pick up Guns, not even for animal liberation. > > If that would have been the case, all news media people reading books, > journals written by extremists would have transformed into one. > > You cannot stop the media from exploring what facts are hidden inside > the book. Can you ? > > We ain't no kids here. > > Azam > > aapn <aapn%40>, " Col. D. Brewin " > <dbrewin wrote: > > > > I see that our sometimes valued correspondent, Azam Siddiqui > > is at it again, showing support for extremism. > > I can't adequately express my disappointment in AAPN in > > permitting their hitherto most excellent venue for the good > > of animals in Asia to be used to show implicit support for > > extremists such as Keith Mann. > > Having, as a soldier, spent much of my life dealing with > > terrorism, I can find absolutely no excuses, whatever the > > temptations, for using any forms of violence to bolster a > > good cause. > > May I suggest that the many valued members of this > > organisation who appreciate the benefits that have arisen > > for animals since its inception (without encouraging > > extremism) should call for closer monitoring? > > > > Dennis Brewin > > > > > -- WOCON: http://groups.google.co.inwocon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Among other things, Mann has been convicted of possession of explosive substances, incitement, criminal damage, and escape from custody. This is the typical rap sheet of a terrorist, & if you strip away the rhetorical trappings of a pretense to " passion " on behalf of animals, what you actually have is a deeply hostile " unaffiliated young male, " as the sociologists call them, not mated, employed, or in any other manner well-integrated into society, who has found a cause that allows him to vent his hostility under a pretext that brings him a measure of fame & acclaim. Every society has a certain number of deeply hostile unaffiliated young males, who are angry about quite a number of things, having mostly to do with unfulfilled feelings of entitlement, but finding expression through whatever causes accept them. In many nations such young men join private militias. In the U.S. they tend to become skinheads and move toward the radical right these days. Forty years ago they joined the Weather Underground or the Black Panthers and moved toward the radical left. Same punks, different excuse. In Britain half a century ago they were gangfighting Mods & Rockers. Now their sons and sometimes grandsons are bombthrowers in the name of animal rights. In India the same sorts of hostile unaffiliated young males form the mobs who burn each other alive in rioting between nominally " Hindu " and " Muslim " factions, whose conduct bears little resemblance to the actual teachings of the Hindu and Muslim religions. The astonishing part is not that hostile unaffiliated young males wage mayhem. This happens among baboons & elephants, too, among other species. The astonishing part is how often they get away with the pretense that they are really concerned about whatever their cause is, when their actions are completely counterproductive. I saw first-hand and at very close range how the Weather Underground and the Black Panthers killed the peace movement and the civil rights movement in the late 1960s and very early 1970s. The emergence of anti-war Vietnam veterans helped to salvage opposition to the Vietnam War, after bombings had alienated much of the mainstream public, but except for a brief flurry of anti-nuclear activity in the early 1980s, the U.S. hasn't had much of an organized political peace movement in decades, and hasn't had much of an organized civil rights movement either. The Weather Underground and Black Panthers basically played right into the hands of the power holders who wanted the public to fear and mistrust the peace & civil rights movements--and small wonder, because years later many of the most outspoken " activists " turned out to have been paid infiltrators and agents provocateur. Later I saw exactly the same thing happen to the American Indian Movement. And over the past 20 years I have seen misguided acceptance and even endorsement of the alleged " passion " of the likes of Keith Mann time & time again undermine the credibility of animal advocates. People who commit terrorist acts in the name of stopping violence should easily be recognized as using the antithesis of effective tactics--and as enemies of the cause, regardless of whatever motives they claim. The animals' cause is fundamentally about changing the old notion that " might makes right. " Bomb-throwing is merely upholding the principle of " might makes right, " and inviting the power holders to respond with greater force. -- Merritt Clifton Editor, ANIMAL PEOPLE P.O. Box 960 Clinton, WA 98236 Telephone: 360-579-2505 Fax: 360-579-2575 E-mail: anmlpepl Web: www.animalpeoplenews.org [ANIMAL PEOPLE is the leading independent newspaper providing original investigative coverage of animal protection worldwide, founded in 1992. Our readership of 30,000-plus includes the decision-makers at more than 10,000 animal protection organizations. We have no alignment or affiliation with any other entity. $24/year; for free sample, send address.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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