Gatherings with non-vegetarians

[Guest guest]

Hi, I am new to this group. I have two children ages 4.5 and 3 and

one on the way in April. We are a vegetarian family. We get together

with my non-vegetarian extended family almost weekly. For the first

time my 4.5 year old asked to try the chicken everyone was passing

around. I was wondering how others have dealt with this.

[Guest guest]

This happened not too long ago with my 3.5 year old daughter. My sister

was visiting and they ordered a pizza to be delivered. They got here

later in the evening and we had eaten dinner, it was just for them, not

us. They ordered pepperoni on it. My daughter wanted some. She was

asking her aunt for some pizza and my sister started to give it to her

and I stopped her immediately and said no. I told my daughter that

pepperoni is meat and we don't eat meat because it's an animal. It took

a couple of times saying it and then she moved on and left it alone. My

sister kindly suggested that we pick the pepperoni off so she could have

some pizza. I had to then explain to her how that we don't do that, no

thank you. That was the end of the issue.

 

When we do get together my kids at this point mainly focus on their own

food. But if they notice what others eat, which they do sometimes, I

tell them that the food is not vegetarian. I'm just straight forward and

honest with them. I don't say it in a rude way, I just explain that we

are vegetarians and that food is not vegetarian. Even if at 3.5 she

continued to ask for it I wouldn't let her have it, no more so than I'd

give in and let her play with Draino.

 

Jacqueline

[Guest guest]

You know, I went through that, too. It was really bad when my daughter started

school. She wanted to do what other people do. It helps if you just cut to that

chase, though. it's killing someone just to have a taste in your mouth. Is that

really worth it? Unfortuantely, people don't even think anymore about what

they're doing. The stuff on the pizza looks like little circles. Meat from the

store doesn't look like what it was. It's a shape in a package. There are so

many people that would be apalled

 

jacqueline wrote: This happened not too long ago

with my 3.5 year old daughter. My sister

was visiting and they ordered a pizza to be delivered. They got here

later in the evening and we had eaten dinner, it was just for them, not

us. They ordered pepperoni on it. My daughter wanted some. She was

asking her aunt for some pizza and my sister started to give it to her

and I stopped her immediately and said no. I told my daughter that

pepperoni is meat and we don't eat meat because it's an animal. It took

a couple of times saying it and then she moved on and left it alone. My

sister kindly suggested that we pick the pepperoni off so she could have

some pizza. I had to then explain to her how that we don't do that, no

thank you. That was the end of the issue.

 

When we do get together my kids at this point mainly focus on their own

food. But if they notice what others eat, which they do sometimes, I

tell them that the food is not vegetarian. I'm just straight forward and

honest with them. I don't say it in a rude way, I just explain that we

are vegetarians and that food is not vegetarian. Even if at 3.5 she

continued to ask for it I wouldn't let her have it, no more so than I'd

give in and let her play with Draino.

 

Jacqueline

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Recently my 4.5 year old son wanted to try some chicken thing that all

his cousins where eating. He is a deep little guy and we have talked

a lot about vegetarianism and he really seems to agree with it on

moral grounds yet when put in the above situation he wanted to try it.

I reminded him what it was and he still wanted to taste it so I did

not make an issue of it. He tried a bite (his first bite ever of

meat). It was a really big deal for me (a vegetarian of 25 years).

I am afraid that if I don't let my son be involved in the choice to be

vegetarian (even if that involves some experimentation with meat) he

won't choose to be one in the long run. What do you think about this

concern? Sincerely, Rachel

[Guest guest]

Rachel,

 

I think at 4.5 he's not old enough to make that decision. No more so

than if he wants to try drugs, drinking window cleaner, etc. He's much

too young to make such a decision. If it were my child the answer would

be no and it would remain that until they were much older.

 

Jacqueline

[Guest guest]

I think 4.5 is much too young for a child to make vegetarian/non vegetarian

choices. You are

the parent and you need to excercise your parental authority. As a guideline, I

don't believe a

child is ready to make that choice until the parent feels the child is ready to

watch PETA'S

documentaries of factory farming or other horrors the animals go through. Kids

depend on

us for guidance and protection. If they get confusing messages too early it will

be harder for

them to figure out the big picture. I did the same thing at an event with my

first son but I

didn't with my second son. (no harm was done but it helped me learn as a parent)

Little kids

are unbelievavably curious but also extremely naive. By the way, we live in the

country and

have a small unoffical farm sanctuary.

Teresa , " haag.rachel " <haag.rachel wrote:

[Guest guest]

Teresa,

 

I agree with your post.

 

One of the things that comes to my mind about this issue of letting

children decide for themselves to eat animals or not is this: if you are

teaching your child to be an ethical vegetarian, as I am teaching my

two, then how can you possibly say it's okay to go against your ethics

and try to eat animals? It completely goes against everything I'm trying

to teach them, so I couldn't possibly give them permission to do what it

is I'm trying to teach them not to do. That sends a very contradicting

message and I don't believe my child would take my position/lifestyle of

vegetarianism seriously. It would seem as though I'm not taking it

seriously either.

 

Jacqueline

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

I also have a almost 5 year old boy. He is very passionate about not

eating meat or any animal products. sometimes i find him preaching to

random people that he sees buying meat, my little activist. Every now

and then I find him wanting something that has eggs or meat in it.

Example-we go to the grocery store and they are giving out free samples

of peperoni pizza or cookies. Naturally he wants to try it. I do

exzactly what you do. I tell him what is in it and how maybe remind him

that animals are not here for us to devour. Once in a while he gets the

cookie and eats it, most times he does not. I Always offer him an

alternative. Like that we will go home and make some cookies.

I feel the same way, if i dont let him try it he will resent it. One

day our kidswill reach the point of fully understanding (like we did)

and will most likely choose to obstain from meat because of the strong

morals you have given him. So for now we freak out when they reach for

pizza and such once every few months, but we keep it to ourselves.

anyways, good luck!

Mary, Jack (almost 5) and Max (1)

 

, " haag.rachel " <haag.rachel

wrote:

>

> Recently my 4.5 year old son wanted to try some chicken thing that all

> his cousins where eating. He is a deep little guy and we have talked

> a lot about vegetarianism and he really seems to agree with it on

> moral grounds yet when put in the above situation he wanted to try it.

> I reminded him what it was and he still wanted to taste it so I did

> not make an issue of it. He tried a bite (his first bite ever of

> meat). It was a really big deal for me (a vegetarian of 25 years).

> I am afraid that if I don't let my son be involved in the choice to be

> vegetarian (even if that involves some experimentation with meat) he

> won't choose to be one in the long run. What do you think about this

> concern? Sincerely, Rachel

>

[Guest guest]

Rachel,

 

I have fortunately not been in that situation yet. My 5 year

old son is being raised vegan and we have just discussed it over the years

as fact as if there were no other choices. Most of our friends from when he

was in daycare are meat eaters so we go out to dinner with them and he sees

meat, but understands that we do not eat it- it is not part of our

lifestyle. I believe part of his acceptance is that we have not sheltered

him from our differences, we point them out and always provide fun

alternatives so he does not feel like he is missing anything. He has asked

some hard questions and we have explained at a child's level that we do it

for our health, the earth and the animals. While we eat a healthy whole

foods diet at home I do make exceptions for birthday parties and depending

on what the food is bring the vegan version and of course a dessert- usually

uncle eddies cookies. The kids actually try to get what he is having over

their own items at the party, even cake. Once in a while we even have

burgers and fries- but it is a totally whole foods meal, I make walnut

lentil burgers from scratch and bake sweet potato fries.

 

 

 

When my husband and I discussed our options we decided that we

are raising him vegan, however when he is old enough to begin to know

himself and come into his own around choices we will have to respect that he

will be getting older and need to make his own decisions. I think this is

like any child- you do your best to instill your values in your children and

then hope that through leading by example and respectful parenting that your

children will embrace those same values. However, if my child does not do

that- I need to respect his choices (as long as they are within legal

constraints), it is his life. I have seen way too many controlling parents

not only have children who rebel, but also who lose the very bond with their

child because they are so intolerant. I became vegan at 15- I am 37 now. I

cannot imagine what would have happened if my parents said that I was under

their roof and they did not believe my choice was nutritionally sound so I

would have to eat my meat and potatoes (I came from a VA hunting family).

they expressed concern because it was foreign to them, but they supported

me. They fixed meat with every meal, however when cooking vegetables they

left off butter etc (which was hard for my father who only knows how to cook

beans if they have fat back in them). I felt in my very soul that I could

not eat meat and actually was basically vegetarian from 9 on- if my parents

did not support me again I am not sure what I would have done. It was a

crucial point in our relationship when they chose supporting me over their

very comfort and belief systems- a defining moment I will never forget in my

life. I truly respect the unconditional love and support they gave me and

feel the need to pass that on to my son- I believe that type of support is

part of the foundation that can lead children to make the right choices

later in life.

 

 

 

I can say that at 5 right now if my son asked to eat meat I

would say no- that he must be older before he can manage the responsibility

of such a big choice- however I would point out that when he is older it

will be a choice he has to make about his own life. After all, once he

moves out of my house or goes to college he can make those choices whether

or not I like it. so it would probably be around 9-11 where I would

entertain him trying anything- at this point if I say no he could easily go

to a friends or grab fast food on his own- I think that I would discuss why

we don't eat animal products and expose him to more mature information on

the subject such as Diet for a Small Planet and Diet for a New America and

let him know that once he read some of these books if he still felt the need

to try it then I would support his choice of figuring out what works for

him. I am hoping never to go there, but who knows.. right now there are so

many lifestyle choices we make for him I am curious what he will question-

we don't do TV or media/ at all, once he is 9-11 we will minimally expose

him but for now my answer would be no on that as well (which again I am

lucky- he accepts that we do not do this).

 

 

 

Anyway, I know others may not agree but my bottom line is to

have a happy, healthy, well adjusted child. While I whole heartedly believe

in being vegan- I have known since childhood that meat was not right for me-

that might not be the same for my son. I would rather have a meat eating

child who lived on free range/ nitrate/ nitrite free products and had a

healthy well balanced organic lifestyle than a child who smoked, drank and

did drugs- but that is just me. Again, hoping never to have to go there-

but living with the reality that I can only control my own actions and

influence the lives of others. I truly believe that by being tolerant,

reasonable yet firm, while showing unconditional love and living my values

my son will ultimately want to mimic our lifestyle in years to come.

 

 

 

- Paige

 

 

 

_____

 

On

Behalf Of haag.rachel

Monday, February 04, 2008 6:40 PM

 

Re: Gatherings with non-vegetarians

 

 

 

Recently my 4.5 year old son wanted to try some chicken thing that all

his cousins where eating. He is a deep little guy and we have talked

a lot about vegetarianism and he really seems to agree with it on

moral grounds yet when put in the above situation he wanted to try it.

I reminded him what it was and he still wanted to taste it so I did

not make an issue of it. He tried a bite (his first bite ever of

meat). It was a really big deal for me (a vegetarian of 25 years).

I am afraid that if I don't let my son be involved in the choice to be

vegetarian (even if that involves some experimentation with meat) he

won't choose to be one in the long run. What do you think about this

concern? Sincerely, Rachel

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Welcome.....Rachel, is it (you didn't sign your post )! I guess everyone

handles this problem differently. I would maybe explain to your children that

they will be offered foods that may not be what your family prefers they

eat. Tell them why. Give them answers they can use. This will give them tools

they can use, BEFORE an awkward situation arises. I did this with my own two

preschoolers when we eliminated artificial colors and flavors from their diets.

They understood perfectly, and responded appropriately, even when we weren't

around to " police " the situation! Marilyn

 

 

 

 

 

**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.

(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\

5

48)

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

This is a very good idea. We went vegan, in part, because our son has a milk

protein allergy, and so when he's offered stuff, he usually just asks if it

is vegan. or sometimes (especially when we're not around, we hear this one

reported back to us a lot) he will ask if they know what is in it, and if

they say they don't know, he'll say " no thanks then. I might be allergic " .

 

Guess we have it easier with the allergy, since he really knows what it does

to him if he has anything with milk and other junk they make from it, but in

cases of meats and stuff, so far we've been lucky that his typical response

is 'eww thats gross' for any kind of animal that folks are eating. He's

never had any meat, so he doesn't know what any of it is (we've had to

explain that pork/beef/etc come from pigs/cows/etc). I did run into an issue

as I made faux crab cakes and he wouldn't eat them because I said they were

'crab' or 'mock crab' (I forget which way I said it). I changed it to tofu

cakes and he happily ate 2 of them. LOL. I've had to drop the equiv. names

as he won't eat them (like 'mock tuna salad' is just garbanzo salad, mock

egg salad is tofu salad and so on).

 

Missie

 

On Feb 6, 2008 3:42 PM, <sahmomof8 wrote:

 

>

>

> Welcome.....Rachel, is it (you didn't sign your post )! I guess

> everyone

> handles this problem differently. I would maybe explain to your children

> that

> they will be offered foods that may not be what your family prefers they

> eat. Tell them why. Give them answers they can use. This will give them

> tools

> they can use, BEFORE an awkward situation arises. I did this with my own

> two

> preschoolers when we eliminated artificial colors and flavors from their

> diets.

> They understood perfectly, and responded appropriately, even when we

> weren't

> around to " police " the situation! Marilyn

>

> **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.

> (

>

http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025

> 48)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On 2/7/08 10:29 AM, " Missie Ward " <mszzzi wrote:

 

> (we've had to

> explain that pork/beef/etc come from pigs/cows/etc)

 

Hey, Missie,

 

I thought that I was pretty knowledgeable about the vegetarian thing after

25 years, but can you explain what an etc is?

 

Marla

[Guest guest]

Hi Marilyn,

Thank you for responding. I have had many a discussion with my son about what

we eat and why. None the less he said he wanted to try the chicken thing on the

table that all his cousins were eating. I reminded him right there at the table

that this was a real chicken not like the veggie nuggets we have at home and he

said " I want to try it. " He never pressed the issue before and never ingested

any meat before (he is 4.5) but in that moment it seemed like telling him " no "

would make it a bigger deal. Would you have said " No, mommy doesn't want you

to. " ? I have no problem saying " no " to junk food or candy, but the situation

seemed different. Anyway, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Rachel

 

sahmomof8 wrote:

 

Welcome.....Rachel, is it (you didn't sign your post )! I guess everyone

handles this problem differently. I would maybe explain to your children that

they will be offered foods that may not be what your family prefers they

eat. Tell them why. Give them answers they can use. This will give them tools

they can use, BEFORE an awkward situation arises. I did this with my own two

preschoolers when we eliminated artificial colors and flavors from their

diets.

They understood perfectly, and responded appropriately, even when we weren't

around to " police " the situation! Marilyn

 

**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.

 

(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\

5

48)

 

[Guest guest]

Rachel wrote " Would you have said " No, mommy doesn't want you to.? "

 

Yes, I absolutely would have told my 4.5 year old no, that we don't eat

animals. I would not have allowed such a young child to make a decision

like that, one that directly impacts my belief system. He's a young

child and not equipped to make such a decision yet. All he was taught

there at that table was to follow the crowd, give into peer pressure

(whether implied or stated) and to not follow the beliefs and wishes of

his mother. You bet I would have said no and it would not have been open

for negotiation. Not with a 4.5 year old and not in the presence of

others.

 

Jacqueline

[Guest guest]

It is very important that we teach our children about being Vegetarian and

the association with living animals . That are being killed to provide food

for people.

I believe that once our children are given the appropriate information they

will make the right choice. A visit to a farm or zoo would make this personal.

In this situation I think I would have informed the cousins too about

eating animals. After all these children have no information about eating dead

flesh . When people are exposed to the fact that eating a living breathing

animal is what their consuming they look at it differently . What makes some

animals pets and others dinner ?

 

Create A Day Full Of Blessings;

Lynda Carter

 

 

 

**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/8/2008 8:57:55 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

jacqueline writes:

 

All he was taught

there at that table was to follow the crowd, give into peer pressure

(whether implied or stated) and to not follow the beliefs and wishes of

his mother. You bet I would have said no and it would not have been open

for negotiation. Not with a 4.5 year old and not in the presence of

others.

 

 

 

You know, at first I thought " let him try it and see, or he'll make too much

of it " . The " forbidden fruit " thing. But now I'm glad I didn't say that,

because THIS answer just makes so much more sense! Can't believe I was ever

thinking anything else! Marilyn

 

 

 

 

 

**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.

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