Buying meat for other people

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm new, and happy to be here. I'm Kendrah, my husband is Justin,

and we have two kiddos Payge (4.5), Damien (22 months). I had a bit

of a conundrum this weekend and I'm wondering what other veggies

thought. Currently, my parents health has been on a downhill slide as

of late. My mom broke her ankle so severely the week of Thanksgiving

that it has required 4 surgeries since. She has been home bound for

the most part since it was broken (only leaving the house for Dr.s

appointments). She still has to sit confined to a bed or chair, and

only get up to go to the bathroom. It has been this way for the last

10 weeks. Her healing has been slow to say the least. My dad (who has

his own set of heart and lung issues, and is on oxygen 24/7) has been

taking more responsibility for the house (cooking dinner, chores,

etc). I go over once (sometimes twice) a week and clean for them as

well (my dad won't scrub toilets, lol!). I live a 45 min drive one

way away from them. This past week my dad was admitted to the

hospital twice with possible heart failure, and still remains there

for more testing. Since he is in the hospital my mom (who is not

supposed to get up more than to go to the bathroom) is home alone.

I've been doing a lot of running back and forth. All this will tie in

later, but I wanted to give some background up front.

 

Yesterday my mom was in need of a few groceries. I asked what she

needed. She wanted breakfast bars, yogurt (dairy kind), and

Lunchables. Yes, those disgusting little snack meals made with

probably the worst factory farmed meat & dairy possible. She was

going to pay me back for her groceries, it was her essentially her

money. Still I couldn't buy the Lunchables. Even though it was her

money, I could not separate myself from what I was purchasing (though

I wasn't the one paying for it). If this had been a job and I was

taking care of someone I would of had to buy it. It was just anyone

though, it is my mom. She knows that we are vegan, and I thought even

to ask me to purchase it for her (her money or not) was a little over

the top. I'm a very understanding vegan when it comes to other people

and their food choices. We spent Thanksgiving at my parents and they

had a turkey. We separated the table so that our vegan meal was on

one side, and their non-vegan meal was on the other. It worked out

fine. I never make comments on how they shouldn't eat meat. I choose

not to make that same choice for my family and I and that is where it

ends. I'm wondering how other people would of handled this? Usually

my intuition is so clear on the " right " choice, but with this one I

was a little confused. It is against so many things I stand for to

buy meat (especially that kind of meat). On the other hand, it wasn't

my money to choose how to spend. In the end, I obviously didn't buy

it. I tried to find a compromise in buying crackers and organic

cheese. I told my mom any organic groceries she needs (that are in

the ovo-lacto category) I'd be wlling to buy, but I will not purchase

meat, my money or not. My mom (who often times does try to cater to

our veganism) was a little perturbed and made a somewhat snide " I'm a

vegan so I can't buy meat " comment. I told her that was correct. We

then talked about how some stores have a delivery service and that

might be an option for her.

 

On another note, this is all tying together because I feel had they

been taking care of themselves (eating more healthfully) they

wouldn't be in the state of health they are currently in. They

haven't taken care of themselves for 60 years, and now I (with no

siblings that can help) have to be there to pick up the pieces. Not

easy to do with an active 4.5 y/o, and almost 2 y/o.

 

I love my parents dearly, and rarely get frustrated about food issues

anymore, but the Lunchable request, and the subsequent snide comment

has thrown me for a loop. I thought I'd post here for thoughts, and

to vent. It is 3am right now (having some trouble sleeping), so if I

have a lot of typos, please forgive me. My brain isn't exactly sharp

this time of day!

[Guest guest]

Welcome, Kendrah! Your parents are SO lucky to have you to care for them! As

to their diet though--no wonder your mom is slow to heal, and your father's

health is suffering, too! NO WAY can they heal and get well eating " breakfast

bars " and *SHUDDER* " Lunchables " !!! NO WAY. Good grief.

 

I would, if it were me, actually respect their wishes somewhat and buy them

some organic meats and all natural cold cuts. You can't change their eating

habits by force feeding them tofu, or refusing to give them things they will

actually eat. Maybe others will differ on this, but that's my viewpoint.

 

If you have access to a juicer, will your parents drink fruit and vegetable

juices, if you make them? A delicious carrot-apple juice is SO healing! If

they won't object, you can add a handful of baby spinach into it. Or how about

a fruit smoothie made in the blender? You can sneak in some greens and other

nutritious " extras " (like tofu and ground flax or sesame seeds) without them

even knowing!

 

Do they eat salads? Wash and prepare the salad for them so they can just

grab it and eat throughout the day. How about a fruit or veggie platter. If you

cut up the fruit or veggies for them, would they pick at it while watching

TV? Can you buy organic yogurt with no added yucky stuff in it? How about

boiling some hard cooked eggs and cutting them up to add to that fruit or

veggie

platter, for extra protein?

 

Just some thoughts, as I don't know your parents. Maybe this sparked some

other ideas for you. Marilyn

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Kendrah--Just wanted to add a little more to my previous post--and forgive

me if it's stupidly obvious. I think the reason, or part of the reason, why

your parents are choosing these " convenience " foods is that maybe they don't

have the mental or physical energy to think about what to eat and how to

prepare it. I know even for me--and I'm younger than your parents by over 10

years,

and in better health--but when I'm sick, or overwhelmed in some other way, I

can't function well enough to plan and prepare meals correctly.

 

For your mom, it must seem so EASY to open the wrapper of that " breakfast

bar " , or the box of already cut up lunchmeat. That's why I suggested that you

cut up the fruits and veggies, and even roll the cold cuts and boil and slice

the eggs. Set out the crackers, and cube the cheese. Leave a large amount of

prepared salad in a ziploc bag--and loosen the caps a little on the salad

dressings, so mom can open them easily (my mom had Parkinson's, so I think of

these things ). Make the BETTER choices as readily available as the junk was.

I think your mom will eat it.

 

This sort of thing is what I always bring to new mothers when I visit,

because a new mom is also overwhelmed, not at her best physically, and is in

desperate need of proper nourishment. I remember that the best thing my

midwife's

mom did for me when I was in labor was to make a huge pot of split pea soup!

And when my daughter had her baby in June, what did grandma bring? Frilly

pink baby dresses? A comforter for the crib? Oh no. Grandma brought VEGGIES

(cut

up and washed, of course)! Grandma brought SOUP!

 

Just some thoughts, FWIW. Marilyn

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I was in a similar situation last year when my Mom had a terrible

fall, breaking both her femur and her arm. She was in a rehab

facility for 2 months and when they sent her home, she needed someone

to stay with her for a while. My 2 sisters had done so much of the

work before she was returned home so I was asked to come down from

Canada and stay a while with my Mom.

I am vegan. My Mom is not. She doesn't eat a lot of meat and has

always tried to be accomodating to the way I eat so I did what I

needed to do to help her fit back in at home. That means that I

bought groceries that included animal products and (forgive me if

this offends anyone but) I prepared them for her. I did however try

to buy more ethical choices for her with as much organic, free range

animal products as possible.

There were days where she ate no animal whatsoever, but my Mom is

86, she has lived a long hard life where she worked very hard to put

good meals on the table. I need to remind myself of that when it

seems so hard to do this cooking. Maybe I'm wrong but it was what I

needed to do.

I am always so relieved when I can cook vegan and get no

criticism. I absolutely LOVE cooking for my grandson. He has a

natural dislike for meat and loves everything that I make him. He is

a natural born veggie-boy.

Stef

 

 

 

---

[Guest guest]

Welcome,

I can see where you have several confusing issues - not your money

and you love your mother who has supported you. At one time I

probably would have purchased the items. For awhile, I even cooked

animals for my husband but then I couldn't even stand to have it in

my house. These decisions are difficult and I think you will find

that most people on this list feel we are all on a journey and have

to make those decisions the best we can.

 

FWIW, I would no longer purchase the items even if it wasn't my

money. My family lost everything in Hurricane Katrina and I was close

enough to take supplies and help with the recovery. Family from all

over the US mailed money to my house as they didn't have postal

service for about 3 months. Most of the money came with a list of

what to buy - some more specific than others. When it came to

groceries or products that may have animal ingredients, I shopped

very carefully and bought items that were not against my ethics. I

made sure the meals were balanced and had enough calories. If there

was no way around purchasing a particular item, I gave them cash.

Even with the extended recovery process, they were not going to go

hungry or become malnourished or in someway diseased because I didn't

purchase meat. If they WOULD suffer, I did what was needed - for

instance, medication. I picked up a prescription for antibiotics for

the baby. There were no open drugstores in their area and the doc

called it in over here. This was something I could not control or

manipulate - either I purchased it or not. So, I did (I believe it

had lactose in it). They weren't happy initially but they are okay

now and I don't have any regret that I caved on my principles.

 

I agree that it is going to be difficult for you as an only child

to " pick up the pieces. " I am not in that position and can only say

that I would act the same way I did during the hurricane. At 60

years old, if they become dependent on you and you control their

diet, you could really make a change in their health. But, my

scenario was not indefinite as yours could end up being. I can only

say that I would not buy the animal products. If you do it now, you

won't be able to refuse later. Our parents work hard to raise us and

hopefully they do so in a way that we become independent. But we

don't have to mirror our parents. We can love, respect and care for

them without compromising our values.

 

Can you purchase meat analogs? You could cut up the deli slices and

make lunchables for them. Like the other poster said, convenience may

be the biggest issue for your mom. Showing her that you can provide

convenient food may be enough. If not, I think your idea of a grocery

delivery is worth investigating.

 

Good luck,

Carrol

, Kendrah Nilsestuen <carebear-

79 wrote:

My mom broke her ankle ...> Yesterday my mom was in need of a few

groceries. ... Even though it was her

> money, I could not separate myself from what I was purchasing ...

She knows that we are vegan, and I thought even

> to ask me to purchase it for her (her money or not) was a little

over

> the top. I'm a very understanding vegan when it comes to other

people

> and their food choices. ... I'm wondering how other people would of

handled this? Usually

> my intuition is so clear on the " right " choice, but with this one

I

> was a little confused. It is against so many things I stand for to

> buy meat (especially that kind of meat). ... In the end, I

obviously didn't buy

> it.

[Guest guest]

What D just said was exactly why I said what I did. Hate to disagree with

ANYONE here, and I do understand and respect why someone would answer

differently. HOWEVER, my own parents are no longer here. I would give ANYTHING

to be

able to have them back and serve them anything in the world they wanted! They

raised me. We disagreed on a lot of things. If I could have them back, my

principles would DEFINITELY take a back seat. They sacrificed SO MUCH for me. I

could never refuse to buy them the foods they wanted, when they became unable

to buy them for themselves. Yes, I could see compromising on healthier

versions of their favorites. But I could never bring myself to refuse to

compromise with them, and withhold their favorite foods entirely, out of

" principle " .

 

My husband is a musician who does a lot of work in nursing homes. He has

actually told me about seeing aides who try to feed patients foods they don't

want, and what a horrible scene it makes. What a horrendous loss of dignity for

these precious old people! Our time with our loved ones is so short! It is

not our place to try and retrain our parents to our way of thinking, in their

golden years. We are to comfort and love them for exactly who they are,

because they did the same for us.

 

Just another viewpoint. Marilyn

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

This is a difficult issue. I agree with those that have said it's important to

follow your ethics, but I have to interject a delicate question- is it possible

that your parents are on a down hill slide and you have limited time remaining

with them?

 

I know I would struggle with whether to give in on some of my principles (in

limited amounts) if it meant having a more pleasant visit and less friction

while their health was in rapid decline.

 

This calls for lots of prayer and meditation, probably no " right " answer, can

only do the best you can with what you have.

 

Take care,

D

[Guest guest]

I totaly agree here Marilyn.

Yes we do have our ethics but we dont have the right to put them

down on other people, not even our parents.

They are grownups who deserve respect. If they should change their

diet it should be their chioce not ours.

Yes it might not be health yes it might contain animal products but

it is their choice. They let us make our own mistakes in life while

growing up, we should give them the same freedom to make theirs.

Elderly people have really little appetite, so it is soooooo

important that they eat. Better give them somthing they like and

they eat, than somthing " healthy or ethical " and they dont eat.

We can, beside the stuff they ask for, buy some nice fresh juicy

fruits and maby cook some steemed vegies and serve it appertising,

to invite them to get a healthy addition to their normal diet.

And like someone here surgested to cut it into easy to eat pices, so

it is availeble at all time.

 

But I feel that the main point is that we dont force our belives

down on others without being asked or invited.

I have been a vegetarian for 17 years and a vegan for the last 3

years. My husband eats meat, but I wont prepare it for him. If my

mother on the other hand needed my help I would buy it and cook it.

I dont like that people eat animal products, but I still belive that

it is a personal choice and we have no right to judge.

I will inform people if being asked but never force it on them.

 

" We are to comfort and love them for exactly who they are, because

they did the same for us. " I coulden agree more :-)

 

Another side of it :-) Kristine

 

 

, sahmomof8 wrote:

>

>

>

> What D just said was exactly why I said what I did. Hate to

disagree with

> ANYONE here, and I do understand and respect why someone would

answer

> differently. HOWEVER, my own parents are no longer here. I would

give ANYTHING to be

> able to have them back and serve them anything in the world they

wanted! They

> raised me. We disagreed on a lot of things. If I could have them

back, my

> principles would DEFINITELY take a back seat. They sacrificed SO

MUCH for me. I

> could never refuse to buy them the foods they wanted, when they

became unable

> to buy them for themselves. Yes, I could see compromising on

healthier

> versions of their favorites. But I could never bring myself to

refuse to

> compromise with them, and withhold their favorite foods entirely,

out of " principle " .

>

> My husband is a musician who does a lot of work in nursing homes.

He has

> actually told me about seeing aides who try to feed patients

foods they don't

> want, and what a horrible scene it makes. What a horrendous loss

of dignity for

> these precious old people! Our time with our loved ones is so

short! It is

> not our place to try and retrain our parents to our way of

thinking, in their

> golden years. We are to comfort and love them for exactly who

they are,

> because they did the same for us.

>

> Just another viewpoint. Marilyn

[Guest guest]

D,

 

You bring up a good point. I know when my mother was dying in the hospital (she

went quickly from going in for a " routine " gallbladder surgery to dying and only

lived a month after the surgery) at first I was bringing her only organic vegan

foods, but in the end I would have probably brought her a steak and milkshake if

that is what she wanted (she never would have asked that from me so I wasn't in

that situation). In the end, I didn't want her to be feeling bad about her food

choices when we had such little precious time left together. I know that much

sound terrible since I'm a vegan for ethical reasons but seeing her is so much

pain I would have done anything to bring any joy to her life.

 

Linda

http://triballife.net/ A Marketplace for a Better World

 

 

" danitamark " <danitamark

 

Monday, February 11, 2008 9:07:27 PM

Re: Re: Buying meat for other people

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is a difficult issue. I agree with those that have said it's

important to follow your ethics, but I have to interject a delicate question- is

it possible that your parents are on a down hill slide and you have limited time

remaining with them?

 

 

 

I know I would struggle with whether to give in on some of my principles (in

limited amounts) if it meant having a more pleasant visit and less friction

while their health was in rapid decline.

 

 

 

This calls for lots of prayer and meditation, probably no " right " answer, can

only do the best you can with what you have.

 

 

 

Take care,

 

D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi,

First, I am so sorry about your parents and all you're going through.

 

Could it be an option that you buy everything else, but just get

another person to do this one " dirty job " for you/your mom? Maybe

you do all the shopping, but get a meat-eating spouse or other friend

or relative to buy meat? And if you do buy meat, get meat that's

already prepared as much as possible, so your involvement with meat

is minimal (the Lunchables fit the bill)?

 

I can understand that on the one hand, you want to do everything to

make your mom's life easier and as pleasant as possible. On the other

hand, I can imagine that buying and preparing meat would make me feel

like a hypocrite, or an accomplice, or even just make me feel

nauseated and ill. It just feels so wrong - and yet in this case,

getting meat for your mom if she asks for it is probably the right

thing to do.

 

I like the idea of the grocery delivery system, especially if there's

no one else who could get the meat instead of you.

 

All the best for you and your family!

Beth

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/13/2008 9:06:52 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

breigber writes:

 

(the Lunchables fit the bill)

 

 

 

 

The Feingold Association sent a newsletter out recently, listing the

ingredients of one of the Lunchables meals (which was called " smart meals " or

some

such idiotic thing). The ingredients were HORRIFIC--just disgusting (and I

mean from a nutritional standpoint, not even a vegetarian one!)--too many

" artificials " in one place to be believed! My kids were hysterical reading

about

it, and then we actually read the packages in the store on our next trip, and

we simply can't bring ourselves to believe ANYONE purchases these for their

precious kids, even die hard meat eaters!

 

I think I'll stand by my original advice--buy organic cold cuts and cut them

up yourself. Marilyn

 

 

 

 

 

**************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy

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