dealing with school aspects WAS kids in school

March 31, 2008

*Since this transition for us is fairly new, (and

since we have yet to figure out some alternatives and how to get some

products completely out of our diets ourselves) I haven't addressed it with

the school yet. I am interested in how other parents deal with these

challenges as well.*

i think this is a very important and difficult subject that bears

discussion. i'll post here what i wrote to paige last night to get us

started.

honestly, this has been an extremely tough one for our family. when we

first had interest in waldorf, we were firmly opposed to the use of any

animal products at all, eaten or not, insect or not. then my husband

decided to become a waldorf teacher and gradually became more accepting of

using bee products (honey and beeswax) and wool. it is almost impossible to

avoid these products in a waldorf school or a waldorf-inspired home (or in

any home that works very hard to stick with natural materials). i

vacillated a lot but eventually became more accepting as well. what

happened for me was that being vegan became just one aspect of a much larger

worldview that was about reducing suffering as well as protecting the

environment and so on. ultimately i had to balance the use of bee and wool

products against the use of petrochemical-based synthetic materials. that

was a really hard one for me, and in the end i went with using natural

materials that were selected very carefully. for example, we don't use

imported wool from seriously overgrazed areas such as australia and new

zealand, because these companies cannot be trusted to be treating their

sheep well or protecting the land. we often use wool from local farmers

whose farm we have visited, or we buy it from peace fleece, which is a

company i feel good about supporting. for handwork, we often buy wool yarn

in thrift stores (i feel okay about buying these products secondhand, though

i still wouldn't abide leather), and sometimes we even buy wool sweaters

secondhand and take them apart to use the yarn. as for beeswax, we do try

to buy that raw, or in candle form, from local families. we discuss our

issues with these families and are assured that they overwinter their bees

and do not gas them at harvest time. i also feel okay about buying beeswax

products from stockmar because i've discussed our issues with them in this

manner as well. one motivator for me in choosing to use bee products is

that i learned a lot more about how small family farmers work with bees

(versus large commercial operations) and with the bee crisis, i feel good

about supporting anything the promotes bee life. i know that others would

disagree with me, and that's okay - this is what makes sense for me. and as

for playsilks, i did try to use other products for a while, but the effect

just wasn't quite the same. luckily, through my husband's work we get all

of our playsilks for free thus far, as leftovers from his classroom. in the

event that we ever need to buy our own, i would purchase raw silk from

ahimsa silk and just dye it myself.

all of these were tremendously difficult decisions that were not made

lightly. we've vacillated back and forth a lot but have made an uneasy

peace with our decisions so far. i still don't use honey hardly ever,

mainly if i'm in a teahouse or restaurant that only offers honey with tea.

at home, we use agave nectar. we buy one batch each of felting wool and

beeswax a year, for art projects.

treading lightly on the earth as well as reducing suffering to all of life

is so important to me and i just feel like i'm doing the best i can. after

three years as a " hard-core " vegan who would even insist that people leave

their leather shoes, bags and belts outside my home, i came to the sad

realization that any conscious, ethical decision plays out as a series of

compromises. there is no purity and perfection, especially when these

decisions are only one part of a vast idealistic world view. if i were to

buy my son soy-based crayons, the soy of which came from massive,

earth-destroying, petrochemical-fed monocrops, versus beeswax crayons based

on beeswax from a small family farm in germany where they carefully and

respectfully tended their beehives, i wouldn't feel that i was making the

correct decision, for *me*, for *my* moral existence. to someone else, they

would be willing to accept the degradation of monocropping if it meant that

a bee's life was saved. i don't think that person is wrong - we all just do

what we can live with. we've compromised on using animal products in our

lifestyle (if not in our diet) as opposed to using products that are more

damaging to the earth, to the humans who create them, and to human health.

but in using animal products such as wool and beeswax we are always very

conscious and aware of the compromise we are making, and we do go very far

out of our way and often spend many times more money to make sure that we

are supporting the kinds of farming and animal caretaking that we wish to do

ourselves when that time comes. and i will always make it clear to our

children that the best thing to do is to do the best we can, to try to hit

as many points on our list of ethical desires as we possibly can, while

realizing that it's impossible to reach any level or perfection, to avoid

causing harm to someone, or something, somewhere. that's a terrible truth,

but an important one.

in this, there is one significant difference between some other vegans and

myself. many vegans become vegan in part because of " animal exploitation, "

i.e. using animals to our own end. i agree that putting animals in

feedlots, circuses, zoos or aquariums is just that, and i would never

support these operations. however, i also believe that, given initiative,

commitment and consciousness, a mutually beneficial symbiosis can occur

between humans and animals. my husband and i have always intended to farm.

we want to grow as much of our own food and fiber as we possibly can. and

we've always intended to have animals, not for meat, eggs or milk, but

because we love them. and by default, they'll provide us with manure and

weeding. when we have chickens, they'll produce eggs whether we eat them or

not (though i doubt we'll eat them - that seems really gross to me now!).

my husband has always wanted sheep, but the sad truth is that most sheep now

grow wool to such an extent (due to breeding and genetically-modifying) that

you must remove some of it so the animal can be comfortable. we'll have

beehives to propagate the importance of their existence to our survival.

we'll provide these animals, some of whom will undoubtedly be rescued from

terrible situations, with a happy home to live out their lives in peace,

free of being forced to work for humans or to feed humans. but the

byproducts of their existence, we will undoubtedly end up using, though we

would never slaughter them for their meat or force pregnancy for their

milk.

i completely understand why one might consider my arguments petty and my

ideology hypocritical, but after turning these thoughts over and over and

over in my mind, this is the point i've arrived at, and for the moment, this

makes sense to me. ethics evolve depending on what makes sense to us at the

time; at one time, i couldn't see anything wrong with using animals for

meat, milk or byproduct, and then i couldn't see anything* right *about it,

and now i'm somewhere in the middle, believing that sometimes, in the right

circumstances, and barring the death or ill treatment of the animal, it can

be an effective alternative to emitting chlorine, warring over resources,

and the other destructive consequences of using synthetic or

environmentally-degrading materials.

vicki, in relation to the " cheese-cutting " in your children's montessori

school - we often put our own spin on such things. for that, we might say

that it was tofu or plant cheese we were cutting. i've switched around

references in many books to reflect an existence my children are familiar

with, such as saying, " this little piggy has roasted potatoes, and this

little piggy has none. " we've also gone far out of our way to stock

their bookshelves with pro-veggie books. my children are 3 and 1 so thus

far this has been primarily simple books, such as " eating the alphabet " and,

my son's favorite book, " to market to market. " now that my son is 3, we're

starting to talk to him about what we eat and very simple reasons why.

right now our mantra is, " we only eat plants, because we love animals. "

sometimes at random times he looks up at me and says, " mama? we only eat

plants. we don't eat animals! we love animals. " i admit that the sense of

purposeful indoctrination makes me a bit uncomfortable, but on the other

hand, now that he's venturing away from us, and especially spending more

time with scornful, disrespectful family members (and diet isn't the only

problem), i want him to have a way to defend himself from mixed messages and

sly attempts to take advantage of his innocence.

i struggle a great deal with the realization that by using some

animal/insect products, we may be the bearers of mixed messages as well. my

only hope is that we'll always be able to be 100% honest with our kids about

these decisions, and that we realize that it's not ideal, but we're not sure

what the ideal is or how to obtain it. i want to be honest with our kids

about our faults and fallacies; i don't ever want them to be stuck in a box

of perceived asceticism.

anyway, there's my more-than-2-cents on this issue. any thoughts?

chandelle

On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Vicki Thompson <vickthompson

wrote:

> I am new to this group having been pretty much just reading posts and

> soaking it all in the last week or so. I have been a veggie for a long

> time, however as a family we are just starting to make the transition from

> Vegetarians to Vegans. My children (9,7, and 5) go to a Montessori school

> and as we were asked to pick up carrots and Ranch Dressing for the

> children's snack time this week, I realized how difficult this transition

> is when comes to the school. Montessori also has " non-vegan " aspects to

> their curriculum as well. Cheese slicing in the " practical life " center

> jumps to mind immediately but I know that if I think about there are other

> aspects will surface. Since this transition for us is fairly new, (and

> since we have yet to figure out some alternatives and how to get some

> products completely out of our diets ourselves) I haven't addressed it

> with

> the school yet. I am interested in how other parents deal with these

> challenges as well.

>

> Vicki

>

> _____

>

> <%40> [

> <%40>] On

> Behalf Of Paige

> Sunday, March 30, 2008 2:29 PM

> <%40>

> RE: Re: Re: kids in school

>

> Chandelle,

>

> I would love to get in touch with you outside of the group via email to

> discuss Waldorf challenges as a vegan. My five year old is at a Waldorf

> school, which we love, but as a vegan I do have some struggles with the

> felting, beeswax and other items and activities that are integrated into

> the

> Waldorf lifestyle and curriculum. I am wondering how you deal with some of

> the challenges.

>

> Please contact me if you are interested in discussing.

>

> gosstucker@roadrunn <gosstucker%40roadrunner.com> er.com

>

> Paige

>

> _____

>

> @gro <%40> ups.com

> [@gro <%40> ups.com]

> On

> Behalf Of chandelle'

> Saturday, March 29, 2008 7:03 AM

> @gro <%40> ups.com

>

> [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Re: kids in school

>

> yeah, we've converted my BIL and his wife, which is great because we can

> do

> holiday dinners together and nobody gets grossed out or offended by what's

> being eaten. but other than that we really don't know too many

> veg*ns...there are a few families at my husband's/son's waldorf school

> that

> are veg but we don't know them well enough to " hang out " yet. and we get a

> lot of pressure from family to at least feed meat and other crap to our

> kids; we don't really trust them not to feed our kids a lot of sugar and

> crap when we're not right on top of them preventing it, and they treat us

> like we're so cruel for it...it's hard to be veg in utah, for sure!!

>

> chandelle

>

> On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Kristen <Ladybug810 (AT) (DOT)

> <Ladybug810%40> com> wrote:

>

> > Holy cow.....so I'm not the only vegetarian in the state of Utah

> > after all! :-) Aside from a few immediate family members, I've met

> > exactly ONE vegetarian here in the last year.

> >

> > Kristen (Sandy)

> >

> > @gro <%40> ups.com

> <%40>, Katie

> > Norris <norris929

> > wrote:

> >

> > >

> > > Hello to my fellow Utahn! Where in Utah do you live? My son will

> > be entering kindergarten this year, but we live in Sugarhouse

> > (pretty liberal) so I think he'll be okay with other kids and being

> > vegan.

> > > I would tell my child if they were in that situation to have a

> > witty comeback ready, " Wow, that's too bad that you won't be my

> > friend because I don't eat meat. I'm willing to be your friend even

> > though you kill animals. "

> > > Good Luck!

> > > Katie

> > >

> > > : earthmother213: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:42:32 -

> > 0600Re: kids in school

> > >

> > > where do you live? we live in utah and practically everybody we

> > meethunts. it's hard to find like-minded parents here not only in

> > terms ofdietary habits but in terms of any number of alternative

> > choices...mychildren are only 3 and 1 but my son is in his father's

> > class in a waldorfschool; lots of the families in this school

> > are " alternative, " and some ofthem are vegetarian or vegan.

> > findingthatalternativecommunityhasbeenhugelyimportantasfar as

> > maintaining some stability in the midst of suchafirmly-

> > entrenchedmainstream.idon'tknowhowwe'lldealwithitwhenourkidsreceiveun

> > pleasanttreatmentfortheirveganism...sadly,forus,they'll probably

> > receive that most of all from " well-meaning " " family. " :(chandelle

> >

April 2, 2008

Wow what a heartfelt reply. Thank you for that. I just wanted to add that in

my family it is roast corn for the little piggys. I sounds funny now to me to

hear roast beef! My children are five and two, so it has been that way for many

years!

Laura Ballinger Morales

chandelle' <earthmother213

Monday, March 31, 2008 2:27:24 PM