boy scouts

[Guest guest]

I don't know where things are at currently, but I remember a few years ago

they were sued for discriminating against gay Boy Scouts leaders. I am not

sure what their status is these days regarding discrimination.

 

Marla

 

> Does anyone have experience with boy scouts? I loved girl scouts as a child,

> but my son (age 9) has been asking me to join boy scouts and I have been

> discouraging him. I have the idea that it involves fishing and encourages

> hunting, things that my son and I are against. I hate to discourage him from

> joining something that his friends are involved in, but do not want him to get

> there, and then feel left out because they are learning to fish. Am I wrong?

>

> ... Danielle

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Danielle,

I don't know about the hunting and fishing, but we won't be involved in

Boy Scouts due to their policies of homophobia. I think fishing is a

very big likelihood since it's meshed into so many situations as

" americana, " but I just don't know. There are other groups in our area,

that are similar to a scouting group - like a Native American

parent/child group . . . but that doesn't help the issue of him wanting

to do the same thing as his friends.

Good luck!!

Lorraine

 

 

On

Behalf Of Danielle

Tuesday, May 20, 2008 11:46 AM

 

Boy scouts

 

Does anyone have experience with boy scouts? I loved girl scouts as a

child, but my son (age 9) has been asking me to join boy scouts and I

have been discouraging him. I have the idea that it involves fishing and

encourages hunting, things that my son and I are against. I hate to

discourage him from joining something that his friends are involved in,

but do not want him to get there, and then feel left out because they

are learning to fish. Am I wrong?

 

.... Danielle

 

 

[Guest guest]

i can't support the gender performativity promoted by boy scouts. their

discriminatory practices and perpetuation of christian superiority are also

serious issues to me. those issues alone mean that my son won't be doing

boy scouts, hunting and/or fishing aside. can you arrange other activities

for your son and his friends outside of boy scouts? there are a lot of

different summer programs that he might enjoy as well.

 

chandelle

 

On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Lorraine <ldemi wrote:

 

> Hi Danielle,

> I don't know about the hunting and fishing, but we won't be involved in

> Boy Scouts due to their policies of homophobia. I think fishing is a

> very big likelihood since it's meshed into so many situations as

> " americana, " but I just don't know. There are other groups in our area,

> that are similar to a scouting group - like a Native American

> parent/child group . . . but that doesn't help the issue of him wanting

> to do the same thing as his friends.

> Good luck!!

> Lorraine

>

>

>

> <%40> [

> <%40>] On

> Behalf Of Danielle

> Tuesday, May 20, 2008 11:46 AM

> <%40>

> Boy scouts

>

> Does anyone have experience with boy scouts? I loved girl scouts as a

> child, but my son (age 9) has been asking me to join boy scouts and I

> have been discouraging him. I have the idea that it involves fishing and

> encourages hunting, things that my son and I are against. I hate to

> discourage him from joining something that his friends are involved in,

> but do not want him to get there, and then feel left out because they

> are learning to fish. Am I wrong?

>

> ... Danielle

>

>

[Guest guest]

My 9 year old son wanted to join Cub Scouts last Fall and I hesitated

because of political reasons (their stance on gays) and the focus on

religion. I went ahead and let my son do it and I am very glad.

 

He never did anything related to fishing or hunting. I didn't even

see it come up in the book although maybe it's in a later section.

Even if it did, you could opt out of that activity.

 

Things that his den did are a pinewood derby car race, feed the

homeless, toy drive, paper planes, learned CPR, played at the beach,

learn to work together and support each other. Mostly they just had

fun! He never wanted to leave when it was time to come home.

 

Even though the book made it sound like religion was a big component,

we never did anything that made me feel uncomfortable.

 

I'd recommend trying it out if your son wants to. I found the time

to bond with other boys was way more important than my concerns that

never came to fruition.

 

Connie

 

, " Danielle " <daniellej wrote:

>

> Does anyone have experience with boy scouts? \]

>

[Guest guest]

My girls did girl scouts for a while but then they dropped out.

Recently, I had them enrolled in a spiral scouts troop. It is a group

for kids that are not christian although christian children are

welcome. Years ago, my friend's son was in boy scouts and they were

working on a religion badge. My friend, not being christian, wanted her

son to be able to earn the award based on her religion and the troop

leaders wouldn't allow it because boy scouts is a christian

organization. If you want a scouting group that is all about nature

and not about killing animals you could try to find a spiral scouts

group in your area. Let the leaders know why you are interested.

Maybe that will work.

That being said, I haven't heard any of my friends who have boys say

that the troop ever did anything with fishing and hunting. Perhaps, if

he really wants to be in the boy scouts, you can talk to the troop

leader and see if they do any of that. Maybe they don't so it won't be

a problem. Even if they do, you can keep your son home from those

types of activities.

Carol

[Guest guest]

hello friends,

 

I am a vegan mom to a 12 yr meat eater who has been involved with Boy Scouts

since 1st grade. I am also a mom to a vegan 3 yr old son who cannot wait to be

a boy scout. My vegan will not fish or hunt as a boy scout even though my oldest

fishes (we are a mixed family half vegan half not). I can tell you that fishing

is not a boy scout requirement. It is optional. My best advice is to talk to

the Scout Master. Some troops are more flexible than others. You may have to

look around a bit to find the right Troop. I remember a while back reading about

a vegan Boy Scout but I can't rember where.

 

As far as the discrimination issue goes, my son struggled for a long time

whether he wanted to stay in scouts or not because of the discrimination issues.

His response was and I quote, " Mommy, if I don't stay in Scouts then I won't be

able to change things. " I would suggest that you take a look at

www.scoutingforall.org. It's how we view scouting.

 

Good luck

Christine

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

We weren't interested in Boy Scouts either for all the previous reasons

mentioned plus the general militaristic feel to it.

 

Our family was involved with YMCA's Adventure Guides for a time. I get the

impression these groups can vary greatly, kind of depends on who is involved

(probably true for Scouts also- I know people who have had terrific scouting

experiences). Both genders of kids and parents. The feel of the group was very

accepting and inclusive and even though it was sponsored by the Y, there was no

heavy Christian component, just basic moral values of respect, kindness, family

etc and enjoying nature, having fun.

 

D

[Guest guest]

Other great alternatives to boy and girl scouts are Jane Goodall's

Roots and Shoots and Earth Scouts. Here is a summary from their

websites. Both of these groups let you start up new chapters easily.

You can also have closed groups of just your children and maybe their

vegan friends if you like. Although this will decrease the social

opportunities you may be looking for. If you don't have these in your

area but want to start a group with many participants, look to the

homeschool community. At least in my area, many homeschoolers are

active in their community without a scouting group but would

participate in an organized group.

 

 

http://www.rootsandshoots.org/

" The Roots & Shoots program is about making positive change happen—

for our communities, for animals and for the environment. And it all

starts with you! With tens of thousands of young people in almost 100

countries, the Roots & Shoots network branches out across the globe,

connecting youth of all ages who share a common desire to help make

our world a better place. This powerful, youth-driven network fosters

a fun, flexible and supportive environment where young people and

adults alike come together to share ideas and inspiration, implement

successful community service projects and participate in special

events and global campaigns. "

 

http://www.earthscouts.org/

" Earth Scouts is more than a scouting program. It is a way for

children and youth to become empowered to make a positive difference

in their homes, schools and communities.

 

Imagine a community where children and youth

 

Appreciate one another's differences

Have awe and a sense of wonder about nature and the cosmos

Engage in making their school and community better

Value independence and cooperation

Seek peaceful solutions to problems

Welcome new knowledge and experiences

 

Earth Scouts is a new national program developed by Earth Charter

U.S. that inspires the above qualities in boys and girls from 3 to 17

years of age and engages them in actions. Earth Scouts themes are

derived from the Earth Charter: A Declaration of Interdependence. The

Earth Charter calls for a caring, sustainable and peaceful world. It

was written by thousands of people from 78 countries over a period of

10 years and launched at The Hague Peace Palace in 2000. "

 

Carrol

 

 

 

, Christine Pensa

<christinepensa wrote:

>

> hello friends,

>

> I am a vegan mom to a 12 yr meat eater who has been involved with

Boy Scouts since 1st grade. I am also a mom to a vegan 3 yr old son

who cannot wait to be a boy scout. My vegan will not fish or hunt as

a boy scout even though my oldest fishes (we are a mixed family half

vegan half not). I can tell you that fishing is not a boy scout

requirement. It is optional. My best advice is to talk to the Scout

Master. Some troops are more flexible than others. You may have to

look around a bit to find the right Troop. I remember a while back

reading about a vegan Boy Scout but I can't rember where.

>

> As far as the discrimination issue goes, my son struggled for a

long time whether he wanted to stay in scouts or not because of the

discrimination issues. His response was and I quote, " Mommy, if I

don't stay in Scouts then I won't be able to change things. " I would

suggest that you take a look at www.scoutingforall.org. It's how we

view scouting.

>

> Good luck

> Christine

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting, considering the YMCA is all about promoting Christian ideals

(what the C stands for in the acronym). Not that the ideals are a bad thing,

I'm just surprised that religion wasn't more of a component. No big deal.

 

My mom, dad and brother were active in the boy scouts, as well as in the

girl scouts, and I don't ever remember there being a religious component to

them, save for the boy scout oath. We did do a lot of actual camping and

survival type things with the boy scouts (my folks were leaders in both) so

I think a lot of the religious parts of it do vary by who leads the troops.I

preferred doing things with my brother's troop than mine as they did 'real'

camping and more fun outdoor things than we did with the girl scouts. I

think that's only because the actual leader of my GS troop wasn't really an

outdoors person to begin with.

My memory of the other stuff gets muddled because my dad was an avid

hunter/fisher, my mom liked fishing. I was more intrigued with the biology

of it all, and ironically enough, it was through the lessons learned that I

really got into environmentalism and vegetarianism and such....respecting

the land/water/animals. Don't take things from nature, leave it so you can

enjoy it next time, and so others can enjoy what you did, leave campsites

cleaner than you found them and so on.

 

I'm excited to see some of these alternatives in our area, but one I looked

at was not within a reasonable distance, and I'm not sure I'm quite a leader

type to start one, at least not on my own, in my area.

 

I have to run - bedtime routines call - but this is an interesting

discussion. I never knew so may alternatives existed.

 

Missie

 

 

 

 

On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 10:46 PM, <danitamark wrote:

 

> We weren't interested in Boy Scouts either for all the previous reasons

> mentioned plus the general militaristic feel to it.

>

> Our family was involved with YMCA's Adventure Guides for a time. I get the

> impression these groups can vary greatly, kind of depends on who is involved

> (probably true for Scouts also- I know people who have had terrific scouting

> experiences). Both genders of kids and parents. The feel of the group was

> very accepting and inclusive and even though it was sponsored by the Y,

> there was no heavy Christian component, just basic moral values of respect,

> kindness, family etc and enjoying nature, having fun.

>

> D

>

>

 

 

 

--

 

http://mszzzi.zoomshare.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mszzzi/

 

~~~~~(m-.-)m

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

>Interesting, considering the YMCA is all about promoting Christian ideals

(what the C stands for in the acronym).

 

Actually, I think the YMCA is very minimally into promoting Christian beliefs,

if at all. Sort of like it's no longer just about " young " or " men " which is also

in the acronym. Our Y has Jewish, Muslim, agnostic, atheist and other folks and

I think it's because they promote health and wellbeing of spirit, mind & body of

individual, family and community and Christian part is in the background. I

think the mission statement refers to " Christian principles " but that's about

it.

 

Everything I see pertaining to ethics/morals at the Y is basic character

development of children/families - respect, honesty, responsibility, kindness

etc. In fact I can't recall seeing anything published/promoted that is related

to the Y ever mentioning Jesus or local Christian church events etc.

 

The " prayer " that kids are led in by the refs before a Y league game is

 

Win or lose, I pledge before God to do my best, to be a team player, to respect

my teammates, opponents and officials, and to improve myself in Spirit, Mind,

and body. Amen.

 

Maybe others have different experiences? We are in the middle of the Bible Belt

so I would be surprised to find it different elsewhere but maybe I'm naive.

 

D

[Guest guest]

It think that it is the same with the JCCs (Jewish Community Centers). Even the

Obama kids go to a J day camp (or at least have in previous summers).

 

danitamark wrote: >Interesting, considering the YMCA is

all about promoting Christian ideals

(what the C stands for in the acronym).

 

Actually, I think the YMCA is very minimally into promoting Christian beliefs,

if at all. Sort of like it's no longer just about " young " or " men " which is also

in the acronym. Our Y has Jewish, Muslim, agnostic, atheist and other folks and

I think it's because they promote health and wellbeing of spirit, mind & body of

individual, family and community and Christian part is in the background. I

think the mission statement refers to " Christian principles " but that's about

it.

 

Everything I see pertaining to ethics/morals at the Y is basic character

development of children/families - respect, honesty, responsibility, kindness

etc. In fact I can't recall seeing anything published/promoted that is related

to the Y ever mentioning Jesus or local Christian church events etc.

 

The " prayer " that kids are led in by the refs before a Y league game is

 

Win or lose, I pledge before God to do my best, to be a team player, to respect

my teammates, opponents and officials, and to improve myself in Spirit, Mind,

and body. Amen.

 

Maybe others have different experiences? We are in the middle of the Bible Belt

so I would be surprised to find it different elsewhere but maybe I'm naive.

 

D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Would someone mind resending the list of alternative to Boy Scouts,

we are looking for something for our son and do not like the Boy

scounts.

 

Thx.

, danitamark wrote:

>

> >Interesting, considering the YMCA is all about promoting Christian

ideals

> (what the C stands for in the acronym).

>

> Actually, I think the YMCA is very minimally into promoting

Christian beliefs, if at all. Sort of like it's no longer just

about " young " or " men " which is also in the acronym. Our Y has

Jewish, Muslim, agnostic, atheist and other folks and I think it's

because they promote health and wellbeing of spirit, mind & body of

individual, family and community and Christian part is in the

background. I think the mission statement refers to " Christian

principles " but that's about it.

>

> Everything I see pertaining to ethics/morals at the Y is basic

character development of children/families - respect, honesty,

responsibility, kindness etc. In fact I can't recall seeing anything

published/promoted that is related to the Y ever mentioning Jesus or

local Christian church events etc.

>

> The " prayer " that kids are led in by the refs before a Y league

game is

>

> Win or lose, I pledge before God to do my best, to be a team

player, to respect my teammates, opponents and officials, and to

improve myself in Spirit, Mind, and body. Amen.

>

> Maybe others have different experiences? We are in the middle of

the Bible Belt so I would be surprised to find it different elsewhere

but maybe I'm naive.

>

> D

>