Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 I am really freaking out right now. I just read in the First magazine that men who eat soy are more likley to be infertal or have a low sperm count. Am I doing my son more harm than good. He is 2 years old now and has never had meat. I have been a vegitarian for 17 years and my 10 year old daughter has been a vegi all of her life. My husband however eats meat. I beleive that health is more important than beleifs. I would like grandchildren one of these days and since reading that article I am really concerned that I may be making the wrong decision with my son. My son has eaten soy since he was 6 months old and now I find out it is not good for him. HELP tanya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Who did the research for that article? That is one thing I have grown to ask aver these past 6 months of being a veggie. Data and studies can be biased and lean in favor of what is wanted, therefore, reading lots of varied research and making your best decision is ideal. I feed my 2 y.o. daughter soy. She was a huge egg eater, but now she is turned on to crumbled " toe-food " (tofu). I know there are concerns out about the chemicals and such, but I made that decision based on many different articles that I read. Best of luck, Cassie tanya wynette <wynettelove wrote: I am really freaking out right now. I just read in the First magazine that men who eat soy are more likley to be infertal or have a low sperm count. Am I doing my son more harm than good. He is 2 years old now and has never had meat. I have been a vegitarian for 17 years and my 10 year old daughter has been a vegi all of her life. My husband however eats meat. I beleive that health is more important than beleifs. I would like grandchildren one of these days and since reading that article I am really concerned that I may be making the wrong decision with my son. My son has eaten soy since he was 6 months old and now I find out it is not good for him. HELP tanya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 relax! there is an enormous amount of mis/disinformation out there about soy. the world's healthiest cultures have included soy. the key to making sure our soy intake is healthy are: 1) don't use soy formula (or any formula at all) if you can help it. 2) use forms of whole soy such as tofu, tempeh, yogurt based on soymilk, miso, edamame. do not used isolated soy protein in powders, supplements, fake meats, and processed foods. 3) keep your intake of processed foods at a minimum. most of them contain some form of processed soy (hydrolyzed soy/vegetable protein, soy protein isolate, etc.). 4) when the world's healthiest cultures have used soy, it hasn't usually been at the levels that we consume here in the US. so feel free to include it as part of your diet, but don't go crazy. in our culture we seem to have a misapprehension that if something is good for us, then a whole freakin' lot of that something would be even better! and that's just not true. so if you choose to have soy in your diet, include it as just a single part of a varied diet based primarily on vegetables, fruits, seeds, nuts, legumes (including soy), and grains, preferably in that order. 5) when you do eat soy, try to be like those very healthy cultures and focus your efforts on CULTURED soy. this refers primarily to tempeh, yogurt and miso. the culturing of soy makes it more digestible and also reduces the number of innate ingredients that can reduce uptake of certain nutrients (such as zinc and iron). this same problem can occur with grains that have not been soaked before use. also recognize that even in its whole form, soy often goes through a great deal of processing before use. soymilk, for example, is boiled for an extended period to kill enzymes that make it taste beany. tofu undergoes a great deal of processing as well. not to mention the enormous amounts of processing that go into fake foods. cultured soy often requires less processing. 6) in my opinion, way too many veggie people use way too much soy. they drink soymilk, eat tofu and/or tempeh and/or yogurt and/or silken tofu and/or fake meat analogs and also pop some edamame on their salads, all sometimes in the same day. moderation is key! proteins (including whole proteins, if that's what you're seeking) are available in a number of foods that are very healthy and also delicious. including more of these foods (such as quinoa, hemp seeds, other kinds of seeds (preferably soaked), nuts like almonds and brazil nuts (preferably soaked), sprouted seeds, and so on) can reduce your soy intake to healthier levels while increasing your intake of many other important nutrients. in my experience, soy products tend to be very filling foods, much like meat, and replacing some soy foods with lighter foods that are powerhouses of nutrition can be a good way to diversify our diets while upping our nutrient intake. i hope this was somewhat helpful! like i said, there's a lot of bad information out there about soy, especially that promoted by very anti-veggie associations like the weston a. price foundation. but there are reasons to be concerned about including too much soy, or really, too much of anything, in our diets. (there are also environmental and human rights factors because of overproduction of soy.) in my opinion, our diets should be based on vegetables, not soy or beans or grains. protein is important, but it's so easy to get it in our diets, whereas the antioxidants, vitamins and minerals, and disease preventatives present in vegetables (and also fruits, sprouted seeds, and so on) are not always so easy to get. feel free to include some soy in your son's diet. there are people who are greatly invested in demonizing soy. remember that fundamentalist wacko (can't remember who it was) going off about how soy makes boys gay? he was basing it on those studies you are referring to. most studies maligning soy were based on enormous quantities of isolated soy protein. that doesn't mean that soy might not be problematic. but there isn't much evidence that moderate quantities of whole soy, especially cultured soy, is anything except either neutral or benefical. follow your instincts. you are right that good health should win out over ideology every time. but most of the hype about soy is just that - on both sides, whether viewing it as a saint or a devil. it's just a food! include it or not, but be sure to have a varied diet either way. good luck, chandelle On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:16 AM, tanya wynette <wynettelove wrote: > I am really freaking out right now. I just read in > the First magazine that men who eat soy are more > likley to be infertal or have a low sperm count. Am I > doing my son more harm than good. He is 2 years old > now and has never had meat. I have been a vegitarian > for 17 years and my 10 year old daughter has been a > vegi all of her life. My husband however eats meat. > I beleive that health is more important than beleifs. > I would like grandchildren one of these days and since > reading that article I am really concerned that I may > be making the wrong decision with my son. My son has > eaten soy since he was 6 months old and now I find out > it is not good for him. > > HELP > > tanya > > > -- " if voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal. " ~emma goldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 I have a 3.5 year old son. My husband also read similar articles to the one you are describing. He found that the articles by unbias pediatricians all pointed to the benefits of soy. We never stopped giving it to our son. My husband also consumes soy and has for the last four years and I am pregnant again :-) On our first try. His count is just fine. On Behalf Of tanya wynette Thursday, May 29, 2008 11:17 AM concern about giving my son soy I am really freaking out right now. I just read in the First magazine that men who eat soy are more likley to be infertal or have a low sperm count. Am I doing my son more harm than good. He is 2 years old now and has never had meat. I have been a vegitarian for 17 years and my 10 year old daughter has been a vegi all of her life. My husband however eats meat. I beleive that health is more important than beleifs. I would like grandchildren one of these days and since reading that article I am really concerned that I may be making the wrong decision with my son. My son has eaten soy since he was 6 months old and now I find out it is not good for him. HELP tanya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 uh . . . yeah. my husband was probably an overuser of soy for the four years we've been married and we're considering vasectomy because of how quickly he gets me pregnant. anecdotal evidence isn't very dependable but i really don't think that's an issue. zinc is a much more important issue in male infertility and one that often goes unaddressed. chandelle On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 10:21 AM, Mary <jmkable wrote: > I have a 3.5 year old son. My husband also read similar articles to the > one > you are describing. He found that the articles by unbias pediatricians all > pointed to the benefits of soy. We never stopped giving it to our son. My > husband also consumes soy and has for the last four years and I am pregnant > again :-) On our first try. His count is just fine. > > > > <%40> [ > <%40>] On > Behalf Of tanya wynette > Thursday, May 29, 2008 11:17 AM > <%40> > concern about giving my son soy > > I am really freaking out right now. I just read in > the First magazine that men who eat soy are more > likley to be infertal or have a low sperm count. Am I > doing my son more harm than good. He is 2 years old > now and has never had meat. I have been a vegitarian > for 17 years and my 10 year old daughter has been a > vegi all of her life. My husband however eats meat. > I beleive that health is more important than beleifs. > I would like grandchildren one of these days and since > reading that article I am really concerned that I may > be making the wrong decision with my son. My son has > eaten soy since he was 6 months old and now I find out > it is not good for him. > > HELP > > tanya > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 This is really great advice. I would add that we only eat organic soy; the conventional is almost all GMO chandelle' <earthmother213 wrote: relax! there is an enormous amount of mis/disinformation out there about soy. the world's healthiest cultures have included soy. the key to making sure our soy intake is healthy are: 1) don't use soy formula (or any formula at all) if you can help it. 2) use forms of whole soy such as tofu, tempeh, yogurt based on soymilk, miso, edamame. do not used isolated soy protein in powders, supplements, fake meats, and processed foods. 3) keep your intake of processed foods at a minimum. most of them contain some form of processed soy (hydrolyzed soy/vegetable protein, soy protein isolate, etc.). 4) when the world's healthiest cultures have used soy, it hasn't usually been at the levels that we consume here in the US. so feel free to include it as part of your diet, but don't go crazy. in our culture we seem to have a misapprehension that if something is good for us, then a whole freakin' lot of that something would be even better! and that's just not true. so if you choose to have soy in your diet, include it as just a single part of a varied diet based primarily on vegetables, fruits, seeds, nuts, legumes (including soy), and grains, preferably in that order. 5) when you do eat soy, try to be like those very healthy cultures and focus your efforts on CULTURED soy. this refers primarily to tempeh, yogurt and miso. the culturing of soy makes it more digestible and also reduces the number of innate ingredients that can reduce uptake of certain nutrients (such as zinc and iron). this same problem can occur with grains that have not been soaked before use. also recognize that even in its whole form, soy often goes through a great deal of processing before use. soymilk, for example, is boiled for an extended period to kill enzymes that make it taste beany. tofu undergoes a great deal of processing as well. not to mention the enormous amounts of processing that go into fake foods. cultured soy often requires less processing. 6) in my opinion, way too many veggie people use way too much soy. they drink soymilk, eat tofu and/or tempeh and/or yogurt and/or silken tofu and/or fake meat analogs and also pop some edamame on their salads, all sometimes in the same day. moderation is key! proteins (including whole proteins, if that's what you're seeking) are available in a number of foods that are very healthy and also delicious. including more of these foods (such as quinoa, hemp seeds, other kinds of seeds (preferably soaked), nuts like almonds and brazil nuts (preferably soaked), sprouted seeds, and so on) can reduce your soy intake to healthier levels while increasing your intake of many other important nutrients. in my experience, soy products tend to be very filling foods, much like meat, and replacing some soy foods with lighter foods that are powerhouses of nutrition can be a good way to diversify our diets while upping our nutrient intake. i hope this was somewhat helpful! like i said, there's a lot of bad information out there about soy, especially that promoted by very anti-veggie associations like the weston a. price foundation. but there are reasons to be concerned about including too much soy, or really, too much of anything, in our diets. (there are also environmental and human rights factors because of overproduction of soy.) in my opinion, our diets should be based on vegetables, not soy or beans or grains. protein is important, but it's so easy to get it in our diets, whereas the antioxidants, vitamins and minerals, and disease preventatives present in vegetables (and also fruits, sprouted seeds, and so on) are not always so easy to get. feel free to include some soy in your son's diet. there are people who are greatly invested in demonizing soy. remember that fundamentalist wacko (can't remember who it was) going off about how soy makes boys gay? he was basing it on those studies you are referring to. most studies maligning soy were based on enormous quantities of isolated soy protein. that doesn't mean that soy might not be problematic. but there isn't much evidence that moderate quantities of whole soy, especially cultured soy, is anything except either neutral or benefical. follow your instincts. you are right that good health should win out over ideology every time. but most of the hype about soy is just that - on both sides, whether viewing it as a saint or a devil. it's just a food! include it or not, but be sure to have a varied diet either way. good luck, chandelle On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:16 AM, tanya wynette <wynettelove wrote: > I am really freaking out right now. I just read in > the First magazine that men who eat soy are more > likley to be infertal or have a low sperm count. Am I > doing my son more harm than good. He is 2 years old > now and has never had meat. I have been a vegitarian > for 17 years and my 10 year old daughter has been a > vegi all of her life. My husband however eats meat. > I beleive that health is more important than beleifs. > I would like grandchildren one of these days and since > reading that article I am really concerned that I may > be making the wrong decision with my son. My son has > eaten soy since he was 6 months old and now I find out > it is not good for him. > > HELP > > tanya > > > -- " if voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal. " ~emma goldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Let's just think about the Chinese who have eaten soy for centuries. No fertility problem there! Of course I'm sure as their diet becomes more and more westernized, this will probably become more of an issue over there as well. Our family has consumed soy (usually tofu/soy milk) for 20 years. The kids are normal and healthy (less " puffy " than their peers -- they look like kids did 30 years ago) and our fertility has been normal (kids are 13 and 17). I'd say fertility got better the 2nd time around as my husband's diet got away from meat/dairy and onto more soy. Here is a great article: http://www.womentowomen.com/nutritionandweightloss/soycontroversy.aspx? It makes a lot of sense. And this is not from a " vegetarian " organization. It covers the anti-soy internet craze that's been perpetuated these last few years as soy gets more and more popular. Good luck! Tracy On May 29, 2008, at 9:21 AM, Mary wrote: > I have a 3.5 year old son. My husband also read similar articles to > the one > you are describing. He found that the articles by unbias > pediatricians all > pointed to the benefits of soy. We never stopped giving it to our > son. My > husband also consumes soy and has for the last four years and I am > pregnant > again :-) On our first try. His count is just fine. > > > > On > Behalf Of tanya wynette > Thursday, May 29, 2008 11:17 AM > > concern about giving my son soy > > I am really freaking out right now. I just read in > the First magazine that men who eat soy are more > likley to be infertal or have a low sperm count. Am I > doing my son more harm than good. He is 2 years old > now and has never had meat. I have been a vegitarian > for 17 years and my 10 year old daughter has been a > vegi all of her life. My husband however eats meat. > I beleive that health is more important than beleifs. > I would like grandchildren one of these days and since > reading that article I am really concerned that I may > be making the wrong decision with my son. My son has > eaten soy since he was 6 months old and now I find out > it is not good for him. > > HELP > > tanya > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 From http://www.pcrm.org/health/prevmed/soy_health.html, we have this: Soy and reproductive health There is no evidence that soy negatively affects reproductive health. Studies in male and female reproduction found soy was no hindrance to reproduction.22,23 Also, adults who were fed soy formula as infants had the same level of reproductive health as adults who were fed cow’s milk formula.24 22. Mitchell JH, Cawood E, Kinniburgh D, Provan A, Collins AR, Irvine DS. Effect of a phytoestrogen food supplement on reproductive health in normal males. Clin Sci (Lond). 2001;100:613-8. 23. Kurzer MS. Hormonal effects of soy in premenopausal women and men. J Nutr. 2002;132:570S-3S. 24. Strom BL, Schinnar R, Ziegler EE, et al. Exposure to soy-based formula in infancy and endocrinological and reproductive outcomes in young adulthood. JAMA. 2001;286:807-14 The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition also recently stated that reproductive and developmental toxicity studies did not find significant variations in fertility from soy phytoestrogens consumption in healthy couples, indicating that normal intake of soy is basically harmless to your fertility and hence your chances of becoming pregnant or maintaining a pregnancy. As others have suggested, consider the source of the information. The magazine you cited is not a nutritional or medical journal, and was thus less likely to have been authored by someone with an insightful and unbiased view of the scientific basis behind the claims. Someone (with motives that are unclear to us) may have sent in an idea for a story. On such central issues, I'd suggest you go to those who do the primary research, not those with unclear motives but strong " opinions " . BTW, here's a quick " test " : Did the article suggest that those with fertility issues consume " meat " (e.g., the rotting, mutilated carcasses of tortured animals), without offering supporting evidence? , tanya wynette <wynettelove wrote: > > I am really freaking out right now. I just read in > the First magazine that men who eat soy are more > likley to be infertal or have a low sperm count. Am I > doing my son more harm than good. He is 2 years old > now and has never had meat. I have been a vegitarian > for 17 years and my 10 year old daughter has been a > vegi all of her life. My husband however eats meat. > I beleive that health is more important than beleifs. > I would like grandchildren one of these days and since > reading that article I am really concerned that I may > be making the wrong decision with my son. My son has > eaten soy since he was 6 months old and now I find out > it is not good for him. > > HELP > > tanya > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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