Can anyone explain this?

[Guest guest]

Someone on another list posted about her mental and physical ailments, and

her husband's. She was writing (I think) defensively, because I had posted

about my homebirth (at age 48), and she had two kids and was older and couldn't

have any more due to her health issues. I wasn't writing to make anyone feel

bad--I was responding to a question from another group member about age,

pregnancy, and the number of kids I had.

 

Anyway, she " defended " herself about HER family planning choice (I hadn't

asked) by listing her and her husband's ailments. So I responded by asking her

if she'd read anything by Ornish, McDougall, Esselstyn, etc. because I had

been aware of many, many people being helped by a vegan diet.

 

SIGH. Wouldn't you know it. She blasted back about how sick and weak she'd

gotten on the vegan diet! She'd tried it and HAD to go back to meat (and her

health " improved " ). She also wrote about her supposedly vegan/macrobiotic

relative or friend (I forget) who went to all these alternative health

practitioners, but had a family history of breast cancer and died young like

her other

family members had, despite her diet. She said she believed that if her

friend had gone to traditional doctors, she'd still be alive, blah, blah,

blah....

 

My questions are these, I guess.

 

1. What makes people SO defensive about their lifestyle choices that they

feel the need to blast someone else when I wasn't even directing my original

comments to her? That's kind of a " just venting " question.

 

2. With all the research out there, is it even POSSIBLE to get sicker on a

vegan diet (supposedly a medically supervised one--no clue what she'd been

told by the doctors, actually), and better when meat is reintroduced?

 

3. How many of us keep our mouths shut about what we know might help

someone, for fear of just this very thing happening (someone blasting us, and

totally contradicitng our information--right or wrong)?

 

4. Are we ever WRONG for suggesting someone check into a vegan diet to

improve their health?

 

I rarely mention the diet/health connection to anyone because I know it's a

sensitive issue. But I also kind of got tired of keeping my mouth shut, when

that information might actually HELP someone. I NEVER say it's the " only right

way " . What I say is that " many people " have been helped by vegan diets, and

I give resources to check out. Period.

 

I guess my MAIN question is--is that wrong to do? Marilyn

 

 

 

**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for

fuel-efficient used cars.

(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Something similar happened to me a week ago. I was asking a mom how she got her

husband to join her in eliminating candy and soda from her children. I related

it to my husband giving our 2 yo un-watered down juice and sneaking her a piece

of chicken.

She then wrote back insisting that all humans need protien and if she were

Lily's father, she would do the same thing, except at every meal... The worst

part was that every time she wrote meat, it was MEAT, as if to rub it in my

face. I responded that we consume plenty of protein in our diets and I would be

happy to discuss this with her further off the board or I could give her some

good reading material on the subject. I then write that I feel she was

attacking me on a separate topic other than my question.

She then responded that she has the right to her own opinion (don't I?) and that

is what that board is for (although it clearly states support).

I chose not to respond to ignorance. I feel I offered her choices to learn and

improve her knowledge, and you can lead a horse to water.....

Sounds like you have some great questions, my favorite is how can people still

be this ignorant about vegetarian/veganism with all of the information

available. One of the other mom's responded that she was veg for 2 years, but

her dr made her return to eating meat, as her health issuses had gotten worse.

I was sitting with my jaw to the floor! She didnt change dr immediately?

Best wishes,

 

Cassie

" life's a garden, dig it! "

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Jul 8, 2008, at 2:06 PM, sahmomof8 wrote:

 

Someone on another list posted about her mental and physical ailments, and

her husband's. She was writing (I think) defensively, because I had posted

about my homebirth (at age 48), and she had two kids and was older and couldn't

have any more due to her health issues. I wasn't writing to make anyone feel

bad--I was responding to a question from another group member about age,

pregnancy, and the number of kids I had.

 

Anyway, she " defended " herself about HER family planning choice (I hadn't

asked) by listing her and her husband's ailments. So I responded by asking her

if she'd read anything by Ornish, McDougall, Esselstyn, etc. because I had

been aware of many, many people being helped by a vegan diet.

 

SIGH. Wouldn't you know it. She blasted back about how sick and weak she'd

gotten on the vegan diet! She'd tried it and HAD to go back to meat (and her

health " improved " ). She also wrote about her supposedly vegan/macrobiotic

relative or friend (I forget) who went to all these alternative health

practitioners, but had a family history of breast cancer and died young like her

other

family members had, despite her diet. She said she believed that if her

friend had gone to traditional doctors, she'd still be alive, blah, blah,

blah....

 

My questions are these, I guess.

 

1. What makes people SO defensive about their lifestyle choices that they

feel the need to blast someone else when I wasn't even directing my original

comments to her? That's kind of a " just venting " question.

 

2. With all the research out there, is it even POSSIBLE to get sicker on a

vegan diet (supposedly a medically supervised one--no clue what she'd been

told by the doctors, actually), and better when meat is reintroduced?

 

3. How many of us keep our mouths shut about what we know might help

someone, for fear of just this very thing happening (someone blasting us, and

totally contradicitng our information--right or wrong)?

 

4. Are we ever WRONG for suggesting someone check into a vegan diet to

improve their health?

 

I rarely mention the diet/health connection to anyone because I know it's a

sensitive issue. But I also kind of got tired of keeping my mouth shut, when

that information might actually HELP someone. I NEVER say it's the " only right

way " . What I say is that " many people " have been helped by vegan diets, and

I give resources to check out. Period.

 

I guess my MAIN question is--is that wrong to do? Marilyn

 

**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for

fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

 

 

[Guest guest]

My feeling is that people learn certain things as they grow up and its really,

really hard to change. You know? Like some things you don't mind but others

just seem like the root of your existence. I think MEAT (hee hee) is like that

for some people, they were taught that all they need to do to be healthy is

consume it. As much as they can. They really believe they are doing right by

their families by seeing that they get to eat it. It's a privilege and its

nourishing. And most of the people around them think that way too. So when

someone challenges it, even indirectly, they get really, really defensive and

maybe don't even know why. Its probably easier than wondering if you've been

doing the right thing all this time. I think that was a hard one for my parents

(who are now veg).

 

Still its no excuse for them to start attacking people, same thing with those

people who think vegans are somehow hurting their children. In my experience,

vegetarians and vegans spend a LOT more time and energy researching nutrition

than the average meat-eating parent. Because they think they have it sewn up

already. That handy pyramid and all. If we can take the high road, so much the

better. My husband would never be eating so little meat if it wasn't by my

constant example and the fact that I don't browbeat him about it. I think

you're doing the right thing by offering information, but like you said you

can't do anything if they won't listen. Still they'll start to hear it more and

more, it can only go that way if we're going to survive as a species!

 

Chin up and know that there are sane people out here too.

 

:-)

 

Dee

 

-

Cassie Dixon

Wednesday, July 09, 2008 8:52 AM

Re: Can anyone explain this?

 

 

Something similar happened to me a week ago. I was asking a mom how she got

her husband to join her in eliminating candy and soda from her children. I

related it to my husband giving our 2 yo un-watered down juice and sneaking her

a piece of chicken.

She then wrote back insisting that all humans need protien and if she were

Lily's father, she would do the same thing, except at every meal... The worst

part was that every time she wrote meat, it was MEAT, as if to rub it in my

face. I responded that we consume plenty of protein in our diets and I would be

happy to discuss this with her further off the board or I could give her some

good reading material on the subject. I then write that I feel she was attacking

me on a separate topic other than my question.

She then responded that she has the right to her own opinion (don't I?) and

that is what that board is for (although it clearly states support).

I chose not to respond to ignorance. I feel I offered her choices to learn and

improve her knowledge, and you can lead a horse to water.....

Sounds like you have some great questions, my favorite is how can people still

be this ignorant about vegetarian/veganism with all of the information

available. One of the other mom's responded that she was veg for 2 years, but

her dr made her return to eating meat, as her health issuses had gotten worse. I

was sitting with my jaw to the floor! She didnt change dr immediately?

Best wishes,

 

Cassie

" life's a garden, dig it! "

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Jul 8, 2008, at 2:06 PM, sahmomof8 wrote:

 

Someone on another list posted about her mental and physical ailments, and

her husband's. She was writing (I think) defensively, because I had posted

about my homebirth (at age 48), and she had two kids and was older and

couldn't

have any more due to her health issues. I wasn't writing to make anyone feel

bad--I was responding to a question from another group member about age,

pregnancy, and the number of kids I had.

 

Anyway, she " defended " herself about HER family planning choice (I hadn't

asked) by listing her and her husband's ailments. So I responded by asking her

if she'd read anything by Ornish, McDougall, Esselstyn, etc. because I had

been aware of many, many people being helped by a vegan diet.

 

SIGH. Wouldn't you know it. She blasted back about how sick and weak she'd

gotten on the vegan diet! She'd tried it and HAD to go back to meat (and her

health " improved " ). She also wrote about her supposedly vegan/macrobiotic

relative or friend (I forget) who went to all these alternative health

practitioners, but had a family history of breast cancer and died young like

her other

family members had, despite her diet. She said she believed that if her

friend had gone to traditional doctors, she'd still be alive, blah, blah,

blah....

 

My questions are these, I guess.

 

1. What makes people SO defensive about their lifestyle choices that they

feel the need to blast someone else when I wasn't even directing my original

comments to her? That's kind of a " just venting " question.

 

2. With all the research out there, is it even POSSIBLE to get sicker on a

vegan diet (supposedly a medically supervised one--no clue what she'd been

told by the doctors, actually), and better when meat is reintroduced?

 

3. How many of us keep our mouths shut about what we know might help

someone, for fear of just this very thing happening (someone blasting us, and

totally contradicitng our information--right or wrong)?

 

4. Are we ever WRONG for suggesting someone check into a vegan diet to

improve their health?

 

I rarely mention the diet/health connection to anyone because I know it's a

sensitive issue. But I also kind of got tired of keeping my mouth shut, when

that information might actually HELP someone. I NEVER say it's the " only right

way " . What I say is that " many people " have been helped by vegan diets, and

I give resources to check out. Period.

 

I guess my MAIN question is--is that wrong to do? Marilyn

 

**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for

fuel-efficient used cars.

(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

 

[Guest guest]

to answer your questions:

 

1. i read a book called " living among meat eaters " that helped me a lot

with understanding why they are so defensive. the author recommends viewing

all meat eaters as " blocked vegetarians, " with all the attendant emotional

issues of someone who is blocked at any stage of development - anger,

narrow-mindedness, etc. i suppose this methodology could be questionable

from any number of angles but it really helped me to overcome a lot of my

self-righteousness and to feel more compassion for people who eat meat. my

husband is of the opinion that most meat eaters in our culture must now make

a conscious decision to eat meat because there's so much good evidence

against it. when people are inordinately zealous, forceful or defensive

about their choices, it's usually a good indication that they lack

confidence, whether consciously or not, in the choice that they have made,

so in trying to convince others they are really trying to convince

themselves. this became very obvious to me in my own life; as i settled

into my diet and compassion for others, i became less zealous about

convincing others that i was right. (i'm not saying that you are like this,

but i was.) i feel comfortable now if someone eats meat and i never get

into those kinds of arguments anymore. interestingly, this also makes me

much more effective when these conversations DO come up; because i'm more

moderate, i'm also more helpful and people are more inclined to consider my

assertions thoughtfully instead of becoming defensive.

 

2. yes, it is possible to get sicker on a vegan diet in both the short-term

and the long-term. short-term sicknesses can generally be attributed to

detox, but most people do not understand this concept so it's easy to

assume, with mood swings, headaches and fatigue in the first weeks, that one

is deficient in something and the diet is making them sick. in the

long-term, of course it's possible to get sicker! you can eat everything

deep-fried and still be a vegan. you can live on white-flour bagels,

egg-free cookies and soy cream cheese as a vegan, after all, or any number

of nasty, bad for you foods. just because something doesn't contain animal

products DOES NOT automatically make it healthy! in fact, i think it could

be argued that a person who bases their diet on vegetables, fruit, nuts and

seeds, with occasional inputs of grass-fed meat or dairy could be MUCH

healthier than a " junk food " vegan who eats nothing but ISP-based meat

analogues, processed grains and cereal (which is the diet of an awful lot of

veg*ns i know). it's important to consider not only whether a food contains

animal products but whether it is actually healthy, and it's also important

to consider individual needs; some people might, in fact, need a lot more

protein, while others need more fat or carb. everyone's ratio is different

and there's no one perfect diet for everyone. it requires a certain level

of conciousness and a willingness to experiment to figure out our individual

needs.

 

3. i do feel very wary of broaching the subject of a vegan diet for disease

treatment or prevention, even though i feel very strongly that it is an

important consideration (especially raw vegan diets). as i mentioned, i

don't usually get into contentious arguments anymore on this subject and

that's because i'm able to feel out whether a person is amenable to that

subject and i have learned to broach it more cautiously. for example, my

dad had a heart attack last year, at 45, and though he has scoffed at my

diet for a long time, he has come to me asking for health advice as he

heals. i've convinced him to switch from cod liver oil to flax and to take

co-Q10, for example, and i've talked to him about leaner meats and about

some of the problems with dairy and overconsumption of protein. he's been

amenable to it because i broach it with complete respect that he might

ignore me entirely and always letting him know how proud i am of the changes

he's made already. it's all about the approach and the inherent willingness

of the other person. i've learned that i can't bash my way into someone's

diet. the best thing for me is just to make my knowledge and experience

known as well as my ability to be moderate and compassionate; i figure when

they're ready, i'll be there, but in the meantime, i remain respectful.

 

4. physically, i don't believe there are any times when it's inappropriate

to try a vegan diet. as for whether you are wrong for suggesting it? that

depends on the issues i outlined above. but i think most everyone could

benefit from at least trying it.

 

chandelle

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I m getting this from lots of people. Recently my sons teacher who did not

believe me when I told her my son doesnt like sugary foods. I told her if she

needed me to provide stuff Id be happy to becuase my son wont eat cookies, cake,

candy.  He has maybe 3 treats he likes.

 

She didnt believe me so She gave him oreos and chocolate chip cookies for snack

and told him not eat the almonds I sent. He came home hungry and upset so I had

to send her a letter. He is so funny. He knew what she was doing. Trying to see

if I wouldnt let him have them.  She probably thinks I dont let my child eat

these things. When in fact all I did was teach him about food and he makes his

own choices.

On the other subject I went to a barbecue this Fourth of July and everyone was

tyring to convince me to eat meat. I was almost amused to the lengths people

will go to feel righteous. My husband keeps trying too. I think out of guilt. I

told him I wont stop cooking his meat if he wouldnt impose it on me.

I also starting working out and lifting weights I want to prove I can build

muscle on my new diet and prove them all wrong.

 

 

 

 

Cassie Dixon <roxy87cabriolet

" "

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 11:52:43 AM

Re: Can anyone explain this?

 

 

Something similar happened to me a week ago. I was asking a mom how she got her

husband to join her in eliminating candy and soda from her children. I related

it to my husband giving our 2 yo un-watered down juice and sneaking her a piece

of chicken.

She then wrote back insisting that all humans need protien and if she were

Lily's father, she would do the same thing, except at every meal... The worst

part was that every time she wrote meat, it was MEAT, as if to rub it in my

face. I responded that we consume plenty of protein in our diets and I would be

happy to discuss this with her further off the board or I could give her some

good reading material on the subject. I then write that I feel she was attacking

me on a separate topic other than my question.

She then responded that she has the right to her own opinion (don't I?) and that

is what that board is for (although it clearly states support).

I chose not to respond to ignorance. I feel I offered her choices to learn and

improve her knowledge, and you can lead a horse to water.....

Sounds like you have some great questions, my favorite is how can people still

be this ignorant about vegetarian/veganism with all of the information

available. One of the other mom's responded that she was veg for 2 years, but

her dr made her return to eating meat, as her health issuses had gotten worse. I

was sitting with my jaw to the floor! She didnt change dr immediately?

Best wishes,

 

Cassie

" life's a garden, dig it! "

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Jul 8, 2008, at 2:06 PM, sahmomof8 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

 

Someone on another list posted about her mental and physical ailments, and

her husband's. She was writing (I think) defensively, because I had posted

about my homebirth (at age 48), and she had two kids and was older and couldn't

have any more due to her health issues. I wasn't writing to make anyone feel

bad--I was responding to a question from another group member about age,

pregnancy, and the number of kids I had.

 

Anyway, she " defended " herself about HER family planning choice (I hadn't

asked) by listing her and her husband's ailments. So I responded by asking her

if she'd read anything by Ornish, McDougall, Esselstyn, etc. because I had

been aware of many, many people being helped by a vegan diet.

 

SIGH. Wouldn't you know it. She blasted back about how sick and weak she'd

gotten on the vegan diet! She'd tried it and HAD to go back to meat (and her

health " improved " ). She also wrote about her supposedly vegan/macrobiotic

relative or friend (I forget) who went to all these alternative health

practitioners, but had a family history of breast cancer and died young like her

other

family members had, despite her diet. She said she believed that if her

friend had gone to traditional doctors, she'd still be alive, blah, blah,

blah....

 

My questions are these, I guess.

 

1. What makes people SO defensive about their lifestyle choices that they

feel the need to blast someone else when I wasn't even directing my original

comments to her? That's kind of a " just venting " question.

 

2. With all the research out there, is it even POSSIBLE to get sicker on a

vegan diet (supposedly a medically supervised one--no clue what she'd been

told by the doctors, actually), and better when meat is reintroduced?

 

3. How many of us keep our mouths shut about what we know might help

someone, for fear of just this very thing happening (someone blasting us, and

totally contradicitng our information- -right or wrong)?

 

4. Are we ever WRONG for suggesting someone check into a vegan diet to

improve their health?

 

I rarely mention the diet/health connection to anyone because I know it's a

sensitive issue. But I also kind of got tired of keeping my mouth shut, when

that information might actually HELP someone. I NEVER say it's the " only right

way " . What I say is that " many people " have been helped by vegan diets, and

I give resources to check out. Period.

 

I guess my MAIN question is--is that wrong to do? Marilyn

 

************ **Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for

fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos. aol.com/used? ncid=aolaut00050

000000007)

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks for that thoughtful answer, Chandelle! Marilyn

 

 

 

**************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music

scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!

(http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

She probably thinks I dont let my child eat these things. When in fact all I

did was teach him about food and he makes his own choices.

 

Kids aren't stupid. When I started this dietary journey, my 9 & 10yo sons were

toddlers. By the time they were in preschool, they would make fun of the

commercials on TV for junk foods--and know exactly what was in them that was

bad

(artificial colors, corn syrup, etc.). They still, to this day, thoroughly

enjoy going to the grocery store, reading labels on the packages of all the

products, and laughing out loud about all the chemicals in foods.

 

They can read the labels fluently, understand what " FD & C " means, they know

what all the other " initials " mean (BHT, BHA, TBHQ, etc.), as well as many

other chemical names. AND they know to avoid them! I have seen a LOT of people

staring at them as they read these labels out loud (their decision, not me

encouraging them). I have seen some smiles from people listening. And I HOPE

their comments sunk in to a few parents who walked past as they were reading,

and encouraged them to check the products in their own shopping carts. It's

truly frightening what parents will bring home for their families to eat and

drink!

 

My sons, when they were in school (we homeschool now, and diet was a factor

in our decision) used to have a " stash " of healthier substitutes for the

garbage they were offered in school for snacks, rewards, parties, and treats.

At

least one teacher probably thought we were complete fanatics, but I couldn't

care less, because I knew I was doing the right thing. Even in their small

private school, the amount of total garbage offered to those kids was appalling.

It's such a relief not to have to deal with that anymore!

 

And that was my original point, now that I remember it. My boys would

bring home all the crap they collected in school, and I would throw it out and

trade it for healthier treats from their stash bags. Or they simply refused

whatever it was--on their own--no encouragement from me except that they were

taught to choose better items, and they knew what effects the garbage had on

their bodies and minds. They also knew I was more than willing to give them

something better in exchange, if they so chose.

 

Marilyn

 

 

 

**************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music

scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!

(http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Cassie--Sounds like you've had similar experiences to mine. It's

frustrating, isn't it? And yet I do try to remember that when I started my own

journey

into nutrition, I was where " everyone else " is--the Standard American Diet. I

knew NOTHING about the FDA, vegan nutrition, " artificials " , or anything else!

I thought the food labels were there as kind of industry requirements--I

don't think I ever really read one, or if I did I didn't give the ingredients a

second thought. After all, if it was sold in the store, it had to be safe,

right? It's almost impossible to believe that was ME!

 

I started out doing the Feingold diet, to alleviate some of my children's

behavioral issues (BTW, it worked). Veganism wasn't even a thought back then.

But it was through the Feingold Association that I learned about the additives

in foods, how to read (and why to read) the ingredient labels, and so many

other really important things! While I have now gone beyond Feingold, I give

the Feingold Association a LOT of credit. I really do. They have given

thousands and thousands of homemakers a very intense course in nutrition that

we

probably wish most hospital nutritionists and school dieticians had! If they

even

did just that much, as Feingold recommends, our schools and hospitals would

be healthier places, even with the meat and dairy still in place.

 

Marilyn

 

 

 

**************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music

scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!

(http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

You've got moxy, girl! I love it. Your son sounds like a smart kid. Ah I

remember those days (like 20 years ago for the most part) when everybody and

their uncle was like, " well how about I just put ONE piece of meat in your

sandwich " like that was so reasonable. It makes me laugh now to think of it

although it was pretty annoying at the time. Back then I just told them if they

were that worried here's a copy of Diet for a New America, it will explain all

about it. Converted several family members without even trying that way. It's

outdated now though unless he's written a new version since then.

 

My sneaky brother in law tried to convince me that sea cucumber was just an

aquatic version of the vegetable I know and love.

 

Good luck on the workouts, let us know how buffed-out you get.

 

:-)

 

Dee

 

-

Lebasi

Wednesday, July 09, 2008 7:36 PM

Re: Can anyone explain this?

 

 

I m getting this from lots of people. Recently my sons teacher who did not

believe me when I told her my son doesnt like sugary foods. I told her if she

needed me to provide stuff Id be happy to becuase my son wont eat cookies, cake,

candy. He has maybe 3 treats he likes.

 

She didnt believe me so She gave him oreos and chocolate chip cookies for

snack and told him not eat the almonds I sent. He came home hungry and upset so

I had to send her a letter. He is so funny. He knew what she was doing. Trying

to see if I wouldnt let him have them. She probably thinks I dont let my child

eat these things. When in fact all I did was teach him about food and he makes

his own choices.

On the other subject I went to a barbecue this Fourth of July and everyone was

tyring to convince me to eat meat. I was almost amused to the lengths people

will go to feel righteous. My husband keeps trying too. I think out of guilt. I

told him I wont stop cooking his meat if he wouldnt impose it on me.

I also starting working out and lifting weights I want to prove I can build

muscle on my new diet and prove them all wrong.

 

Cassie Dixon <roxy87cabriolet

" "

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 11:52:43 AM

Re: Can anyone explain this?

 

Something similar happened to me a week ago. I was asking a mom how she got

her husband to join her in eliminating candy and soda from her children. I

related it to my husband giving our 2 yo un-watered down juice and sneaking her

a piece of chicken.

She then wrote back insisting that all humans need protien and if she were

Lily's father, she would do the same thing, except at every meal... The worst

part was that every time she wrote meat, it was MEAT, as if to rub it in my

face. I responded that we consume plenty of protein in our diets and I would be

happy to discuss this with her further off the board or I could give her some

good reading material on the subject. I then write that I feel she was attacking

me on a separate topic other than my question.

She then responded that she has the right to her own opinion (don't I?) and

that is what that board is for (although it clearly states support).

I chose not to respond to ignorance. I feel I offered her choices to learn and

improve her knowledge, and you can lead a horse to water.....

Sounds like you have some great questions, my favorite is how can people still

be this ignorant about vegetarian/veganism with all of the information

available. One of the other mom's responded that she was veg for 2 years, but

her dr made her return to eating meat, as her health issuses had gotten worse. I

was sitting with my jaw to the floor! She didnt change dr immediately?

Best wishes,

 

Cassie

" life's a garden, dig it! "

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Jul 8, 2008, at 2:06 PM, sahmomof8 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

 

Someone on another list posted about her mental and physical ailments, and

her husband's. She was writing (I think) defensively, because I had posted

about my homebirth (at age 48), and she had two kids and was older and

couldn't

have any more due to her health issues. I wasn't writing to make anyone feel

bad--I was responding to a question from another group member about age,

pregnancy, and the number of kids I had.

 

Anyway, she " defended " herself about HER family planning choice (I hadn't

asked) by listing her and her husband's ailments. So I responded by asking her

if she'd read anything by Ornish, McDougall, Esselstyn, etc. because I had

been aware of many, many people being helped by a vegan diet.

 

SIGH. Wouldn't you know it. She blasted back about how sick and weak she'd

gotten on the vegan diet! She'd tried it and HAD to go back to meat (and her

health " improved " ). She also wrote about her supposedly vegan/macrobiotic

relative or friend (I forget) who went to all these alternative health

practitioners, but had a family history of breast cancer and died young like

her other

family members had, despite her diet. She said she believed that if her

friend had gone to traditional doctors, she'd still be alive, blah, blah,

blah....

 

My questions are these, I guess.

 

1. What makes people SO defensive about their lifestyle choices that they

feel the need to blast someone else when I wasn't even directing my original

comments to her? That's kind of a " just venting " question.

 

2. With all the research out there, is it even POSSIBLE to get sicker on a

vegan diet (supposedly a medically supervised one--no clue what she'd been

told by the doctors, actually), and better when meat is reintroduced?

 

3. How many of us keep our mouths shut about what we know might help

someone, for fear of just this very thing happening (someone blasting us, and

totally contradicitng our information- -right or wrong)?

 

4. Are we ever WRONG for suggesting someone check into a vegan diet to

improve their health?

 

I rarely mention the diet/health connection to anyone because I know it's a

sensitive issue. But I also kind of got tired of keeping my mouth shut, when

that information might actually HELP someone. I NEVER say it's the " only right

way " . What I say is that " many people " have been helped by vegan diets, and

I give resources to check out. Period.

 

I guess my MAIN question is--is that wrong to do? Marilyn

 

************ **Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for

fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos. aol.com/used? ncid=aolaut00050

000000007)

 

[Guest guest]

As a teacher myself, I know first hand how unhealthy snacks can get there, but,

that woman should be reprimanded! I am sending my 2 yo daughter to school

(there us on site daycare provided for teachers at my new school) and I have

heard from a few of my coworkers how the little ones take walks all over campus

and certain office staff provide candy and cookies for them. I am going to have

to start off having to confront these individuals. Hopefully they will respect

my wishes, as I am a coworker, but that teacher of your son's should have

respected you.

 

Cassie

" life's a garden, dig it! "

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Jul 9, 2008, at 10:36 PM, Lebasi <lebasi.klotko wrote:

 

I m getting this from lots of people. Recently my sons teacher who did not

believe me when I told her my son doesnt like sugary foods. I told her if she

needed me to provide stuff Id be happy to becuase my son wont eat cookies, cake,

candy. He has maybe 3 treats he likes.

 

She didnt believe me so She gave him oreos and chocolate chip cookies for snack

and told him not eat the almonds I sent. He came home hungry and upset so I had

to send her a letter. He is so funny. He knew what she was doing. Trying to see

if I wouldnt let him have them. She probably thinks I dont let my child eat

these things. When in fact all I did was teach him about food and he makes his

own choices.

On the other subject I went to a barbecue this Fourth of July and everyone was

tyring to convince me to eat meat. I was almost amused to the lengths people

will go to feel righteous. My husband keeps trying too. I think out of guilt. I

told him I wont stop cooking his meat if he wouldnt impose it on me.

I also starting working out and lifting weights I want to prove I can build

muscle on my new diet and prove them all wrong.

 

 

Cassie Dixon <roxy87cabriolet

" "

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 11:52:43 AM

Re: Can anyone explain this?

 

Something similar happened to me a week ago. I was asking a mom how she got her

husband to join her in eliminating candy and soda from her children. I related

it to my husband giving our 2 yo un-watered down juice and sneaking her a piece

of chicken.

She then wrote back insisting that all humans need protien and if she were

Lily's father, she would do the same thing, except at every meal... The worst

part was that every time she wrote meat, it was MEAT, as if to rub it in my

face. I responded that we consume plenty of protein in our diets and I would be

happy to discuss this with her further off the board or I could give her some

good reading material on the subject. I then write that I feel she was attacking

me on a separate topic other than my question.

She then responded that she has the right to her own opinion (don't I?) and that

is what that board is for (although it clearly states support).

I chose not to respond to ignorance. I feel I offered her choices to learn and

improve her knowledge, and you can lead a horse to water.....

Sounds like you have some great questions, my favorite is how can people still

be this ignorant about vegetarian/veganism with all of the information

available. One of the other mom's responded that she was veg for 2 years, but

her dr made her return to eating meat, as her health issuses had gotten worse. I

was sitting with my jaw to the floor! She didnt change dr immediately?

Best wishes,

 

Cassie

" life's a garden, dig it! "

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Jul 8, 2008, at 2:06 PM, sahmomof8 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

 

Someone on another list posted about her mental and physical ailments, and

her husband's. She was writing (I think) defensively, because I had posted

about my homebirth (at age 48), and she had two kids and was older and couldn't

have any more due to her health issues. I wasn't writing to make anyone feel

bad--I was responding to a question from another group member about age,

pregnancy, and the number of kids I had.

 

Anyway, she " defended " herself about HER family planning choice (I hadn't

asked) by listing her and her husband's ailments. So I responded by asking her

if she'd read anything by Ornish, McDougall, Esselstyn, etc. because I had

been aware of many, many people being helped by a vegan diet.

 

SIGH. Wouldn't you know it. She blasted back about how sick and weak she'd

gotten on the vegan diet! She'd tried it and HAD to go back to meat (and her

health " improved " ). She also wrote about her supposedly vegan/macrobiotic

relative or friend (I forget) who went to all these alternative health

practitioners, but had a family history of breast cancer and died young like her

other

family members had, despite her diet. She said she believed that if her

friend had gone to traditional doctors, she'd still be alive, blah, blah,

blah....

 

My questions are these, I guess.

 

1. What makes people SO defensive about their lifestyle choices that they

feel the need to blast someone else when I wasn't even directing my original

comments to her? That's kind of a " just venting " question.

 

2. With all the research out there, is it even POSSIBLE to get sicker on a

vegan diet (supposedly a medically supervised one--no clue what she'd been

told by the doctors, actually), and better when meat is reintroduced?

 

3. How many of us keep our mouths shut about what we know might help

someone, for fear of just this very thing happening (someone blasting us, and

totally contradicitng our information- -right or wrong)?

 

4. Are we ever WRONG for suggesting someone check into a vegan diet to

improve their health?

 

I rarely mention the diet/health connection to anyone because I know it's a

sensitive issue. But I also kind of got tired of keeping my mouth shut, when

that information might actually HELP someone. I NEVER say it's the " only right

way " . What I say is that " many people " have been helped by vegan diets, and

I give resources to check out. Period.

 

I guess my MAIN question is--is that wrong to do? Marilyn

 

************ **Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for

fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos. aol.com/used? ncid=aolaut00050

000000007)

 

 

[Guest guest]

We just want on a fieldtrip with my son's school (he's doing a summer

camp with the school he's going to in the fall) and we went to a

farmer's market. It was somehow related to Eli's Cheescake Factory -

it was in their parking lot, and they were hosting a square dance

presentation and such as well. The kids aall got wonderful thigns from

the Farmer's market and then we sat down to watch the dancers and the

folks at the Cheesecake place brought out coookies and samples...ugh.

My son asked about butter in the cookies and he knew 'cheesecake' was

not something he could have. It wasn't a planned part of the

fieldtrip, otherwise I'd have made something for us. LOL. But talking

with another mom, she asked us about where we got calcium, and if we

just sub'd for milk.

The only thing we've said was that we were vegetarian (we have been

vegan for a year, I still am and my son and husband decided they do

like and miss eggs...so, they at least make conscious choices about

where they come from, but still do not have them daily, just once in a

while. Sigh)- and also our son has a dairy allergy. He and another

child with food allergies sat elsewhere (peanut allergy - serious,

too) so they at least kept each other company. Only the other child

did have something with no nuts. My son, he bought gooseberries at the

market and ate those and crackers instead. He did not seem to care or

anything (he's also used to knowing we have to bring stuff and he

knows how he feels if he's had milk). I thought it was funny - he was

the one having what he bought (originally we were just supposed to go,

and then go back to school to make a fruit salad, but there wasn't

mufh other than berries- still good,but most of the kids got veggies

and one girl got flowers. )

It was odd to me that they were all just asking so much about calcium

and were surprised that the LAST thing I mentioned was enriched soy

milk and rice milk. I think they forget the vegetarian part, as they

just wonder about calcium/milk.

 

It's true that kidsa are smart - my son has, when I have not been

around, asked if things were vegan, and/or if they had milk in them.

He has turned down things because of it, or if it was unknown wether

or not something had milk in it. I think the thing that folks are

taken off guard is that he knows what he's asking about and why.

 

I don't know why folks get so defensive over the SAD diet. I have

known folks who were vegetarian, but they didn't really research it,

so they did stuff like only eating mac-n-cheese, and maybe salads -

and were very unhealthy, and had to stop. I know one person who says

they get very anemic when they are on a vegetarian diet, though off of

one they also have issues with it, too. I can only guess that most

other folks would have no clue as to what they COULD eat if you take

away several standards they are used to, and probably grew up with. I

think we transitioned slowly, to being vegetarian, so going vegan was

such a small jump, it wasn't very hard. If we were to go from SAD to

vegan, I could understand the 'um, now what is left to eat?'

mentality. A friend's mom asked if all we ate was salads...because

obvioulsy that was all that was left if you take out meat, right?

LOL.

 

All I know is that we're very healthy, hardly ever get sick, and I

don't think I've ever been anemic. I know that I feel great, and I

think even more since cutting out dairy and eggs from my diet.

Talking with a friend today, she's not veggie, but they don't eat a

lot of meat as it is, about how 'we' are going back to the 'old ways'

with canning, buying local/organic foods and growing our own

foods/herbs - seems that 'we' are realizeing factory farming, and

carting produce all over the world wasn't the best idea after all -

and maybe, even though tragic for the farmers, perhaps the flooding of

the corn fields will maybe get rid of some of the reliance on corn

syrup in so many things - and maybe only planting and growing one kind

of crop isn't the best thing either. She and I have talked about

moving our families out to a homestead and farming and raising

chickens and goats, canning and homeschooling (though she already does

that) just being back in real touch with nature and the seasons and

such.

 

I think I just went off on about 13 tangents here - sorry - stream of

consciousness, and also with the storms here, I'm also about to head

into migraine city. urgh.

 

Missie

 

 

On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 9:32 AM, <sahmomof8 wrote:

> Thanks for that thoughtful answer, Chandelle! Marilyn

>

> **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music

> scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!

> (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)

>

>

[Guest guest]

That is an outdated book, yet the first one I read on my journey to

vegetarianism. It helped me answer the ever common question " why are

you a vegetarian? " . I really liked that book.

 

Cassie

" life's a garden, dig it! "

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Jul 10, 2008, at 11:23 AM, " Dianna Lu " <diannalu wrote:

 

> You've got moxy, girl! I love it. Your son sounds like a smart kid.

> Ah I remember those days (like 20 years ago for the most part) when

> everybody and their uncle was like, " well how about I just put ONE

> piece of meat in your sandwich " like that was so reasonable. It

> makes me laugh now to think of it although it was pretty annoying at

> the time. Back then I just told them if they were that worried

> here's a copy of Diet for a New America, it will explain all about

> it. Converted several family members without even trying that way.

> It's outdated now though unless he's written a new version since then.

>

> My sneaky brother in law tried to convince me that sea cucumber was

> just an aquatic version of the vegetable I know and love.

>

> Good luck on the workouts, let us know how buffed-out you get.

>

> :-)

>

> Dee

>

> -

> Lebasi

>

> Wednesday, July 09, 2008 7:36 PM

> Re: Can anyone explain this?

>

> I m getting this from lots of people. Recently my sons teacher who

> did not believe me when I told her my son doesnt like sugary foods.

> I told her if she needed me to provide stuff Id be happy to becuase

> my son wont eat cookies, cake, candy. He has maybe 3 treats he likes.

>

> She didnt believe me so She gave him oreos and chocolate chip

> cookies for snack and told him not eat the almonds I sent. He came

> home hungry and upset so I had to send her a letter. He is so funny.

> He knew what she was doing. Trying to see if I wouldnt let him have

> them. She probably thinks I dont let my child eat these things. When

> in fact all I did was teach him about food and he makes his own

> choices.

> On the other subject I went to a barbecue this Fourth of July and

> everyone was tyring to convince me to eat meat. I was almost amused

> to the lengths people will go to feel righteous. My husband keeps

> trying too. I think out of guilt. I told him I wont stop cooking his

> meat if he wouldnt impose it on me.

> I also starting working out and lifting weights I want to prove I

> can build muscle on my new diet and prove them all wrong.

>

>

> Cassie Dixon <roxy87cabriolet

> " "

> Wednesday, July 9, 2008 11:52:43 AM

> Re: Can anyone explain this?

>

> Something similar happened to me a week ago. I was asking a mom how

> she got her husband to join her in eliminating candy and soda from

> her children. I related it to my husband giving our 2 yo un-watered

> down juice and sneaking her a piece of chicken.

> She then wrote back insisting that all humans need protien and if

> she were Lily's father, she would do the same thing, except at every

> meal... The worst part was that every time she wrote meat, it was

> MEAT, as if to rub it in my face. I responded that we consume plenty

> of protein in our diets and I would be happy to discuss this with

> her further off the board or I could give her some good reading

> material on the subject. I then write that I feel she was attacking

> me on a separate topic other than my question.

> She then responded that she has the right to her own opinion (don't

> I?) and that is what that board is for (although it clearly states

> support).

> I chose not to respond to ignorance. I feel I offered her choices to

> learn and improve her knowledge, and you can lead a horse to

> water.....

> Sounds like you have some great questions, my favorite is how can

> people still be this ignorant about vegetarian/veganism with all of

> the information available. One of the other mom's responded that she

> was veg for 2 years, but her dr made her return to eating meat, as

> her health issuses had gotten worse. I was sitting with my jaw to

> the floor! She didnt change dr immediately?

> Best wishes,

>

> Cassie

> " life's a garden, dig it! "

>

> Sent from my iPhone

>

> On Jul 8, 2008, at 2:06 PM, sahmomof8 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

>

> Someone on another list posted about her mental and physical

> ailments, and

> her husband's. She was writing (I think) defensively, because I had

> posted

> about my homebirth (at age 48), and she had two kids and was older

> and couldn't

> have any more due to her health issues. I wasn't writing to make

> anyone feel

> bad--I was responding to a question from another group member about

> age,

> pregnancy, and the number of kids I had.

>

> Anyway, she " defended " herself about HER family planning choice (I

> hadn't

> asked) by listing her and her husband's ailments. So I responded by

> asking her

> if she'd read anything by Ornish, McDougall, Esselstyn, etc. because

> I had

> been aware of many, many people being helped by a vegan diet.

>

> SIGH. Wouldn't you know it. She blasted back about how sick and weak

> she'd

> gotten on the vegan diet! She'd tried it and HAD to go back to meat

> (and her

> health " improved " ). She also wrote about her supposedly vegan/

> macrobiotic

> relative or friend (I forget) who went to all these alternative health

> practitioners, but had a family history of breast cancer and died

> young like her other

> family members had, despite her diet. She said she believed that if

> her

> friend had gone to traditional doctors, she'd still be alive, blah,

> blah, blah....

>

> My questions are these, I guess.

>

> 1. What makes people SO defensive about their lifestyle choices that

> they

> feel the need to blast someone else when I wasn't even directing my

> original

> comments to her? That's kind of a " just venting " question.

>

> 2. With all the research out there, is it even POSSIBLE to get

> sicker on a

> vegan diet (supposedly a medically supervised one--no clue what

> she'd been

> told by the doctors, actually), and better when meat is reintroduced?

>

> 3. How many of us keep our mouths shut about what we know might help

> someone, for fear of just this very thing happening (someone

> blasting us, and

> totally contradicitng our information- -right or wrong)?

>

> 4. Are we ever WRONG for suggesting someone check into a vegan diet to

> improve their health?

>

> I rarely mention the diet/health connection to anyone because I know

> it's a

> sensitive issue. But I also kind of got tired of keeping my mouth

> shut, when

> that information might actually HELP someone. I NEVER say it's the

> " only right

> way " . What I say is that " many people " have been helped by vegan

> diets, and

> I give resources to check out. Period.

>

> I guess my MAIN question is--is that wrong to do? Marilyn

>

> ************ **Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for

> fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos. aol.com/used?

> ncid=aolaut00050 000000007)

>

>

[Guest guest]

After joining this board, I learned of Feingold. I have since recommended it to

parents of children in my classroom with documented behavioral issues. I plan

in recommending it even more this year.

I only looked at the side of the " box " to check the fat content. I think I ate

90% processed foods in college (which really scares me), and I am so shocked at

how well I gave done on the veg journey. I need to buckle down (dinner was

black bean burgers and potato skins, then chocolate cake with beet purée (from

Jessica Simpson's book) with cream cheese icing) I need to cut all eggs and

dairy and refined sugars. As if there isn't enough on our 'plates' of life! LOL

 

Cassie

" life's a garden, dig it! "

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Jul 10, 2008, at 11:04 AM, sahmomof8 wrote:

 

Cassie--Sounds like you've had similar experiences to mine. It's

frustrating, isn't it? And yet I do try to remember that when I started my own

journey

into nutrition, I was where " everyone else " is--the Standard American Diet. I

knew NOTHING about the FDA, vegan nutrition, " artificials " , or anything else!

I thought the food labels were there as kind of industry requirements--I

don't think I ever really read one, or if I did I didn't give the ingredients a

second thought. After all, if it was sold in the store, it had to be safe,

right? It's almost impossible to believe that was ME!

 

I started out doing the Feingold diet, to alleviate some of my children's

behavioral issues (BTW, it worked). Veganism wasn't even a thought back then.

But it was through the Feingold Association that I learned about the additives

in foods, how to read (and why to read) the ingredient labels, and so many

other really important things! While I have now gone beyond Feingold, I give

the Feingold Association a LOT of credit. I really do. They have given

thousands and thousands of homemakers a very intense course in nutrition that we

probably wish most hospital nutritionists and school dieticians had! If they

even

did just that much, as Feingold recommends, our schools and hospitals would

be healthier places, even with the meat and dairy still in place.

 

Marilyn

 

**************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music

scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!

(http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)

 

 

[Guest guest]

I never give other kids even a cracker without asking the parent, you never

know what someone is allergic to.

 

You are so right! I bought a couple of bibs at cafepress.com that said to

" ask mommy before you feed me--I'm allergic " . I put them on my toddler when we

go to a restaurant or party, in case she toddles away from me and I'm not

there every second. They sell t-shirts for food allergic kids, too. Just an FYI

in case anyone's interested. Marilyn

 

 

 

**************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music

scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!

(http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

That is so scary to me too. What about food allergies? And I have had plenty

of people offer hard candy to my child when she was too small to deal with it.

What is with people? I never give other kids even a cracker without asking the

parent, you never know what someone is allergic to.

 

-

Cassie Dixon

Thursday, July 10, 2008 3:52 PM

Re: Can anyone explain this?

 

 

As a teacher myself, I know first hand how unhealthy snacks can get there,

but, that woman should be reprimanded! I am sending my 2 yo daughter to school

(there us on site daycare provided for teachers at my new school) and I have

heard from a few of my coworkers how the little ones take walks all over campus

and certain office staff provide candy and cookies for them. I am going to have

to start off having to confront these individuals. Hopefully they will respect

my wishes, as I am a coworker, but that teacher of your son's should have

respected you.

 

Cassie

" life's a garden, dig it! "

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Jul 9, 2008, at 10:36 PM, Lebasi <lebasi.klotko wrote:

 

I m getting this from lots of people. Recently my sons teacher who did not

believe me when I told her my son doesnt like sugary foods. I told her if she

needed me to provide stuff Id be happy to becuase my son wont eat cookies, cake,

candy. He has maybe 3 treats he likes.

 

She didnt believe me so She gave him oreos and chocolate chip cookies for

snack and told him not eat the almonds I sent. He came home hungry and upset so

I had to send her a letter. He is so funny. He knew what she was doing. Trying

to see if I wouldnt let him have them. She probably thinks I dont let my child

eat these things. When in fact all I did was teach him about food and he makes

his own choices.

On the other subject I went to a barbecue this Fourth of July and everyone was

tyring to convince me to eat meat. I was almost amused to the lengths people

will go to feel righteous. My husband keeps trying too. I think out of guilt. I

told him I wont stop cooking his meat if he wouldnt impose it on me.

I also starting working out and lifting weights I want to prove I can build

muscle on my new diet and prove them all wrong.

 

Cassie Dixon <roxy87cabriolet

" "

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 11:52:43 AM

Re: Can anyone explain this?

 

Something similar happened to me a week ago. I was asking a mom how she got

her husband to join her in eliminating candy and soda from her children. I

related it to my husband giving our 2 yo un-watered down juice and sneaking her

a piece of chicken.

She then wrote back insisting that all humans need protien and if she were

Lily's father, she would do the same thing, except at every meal... The worst

part was that every time she wrote meat, it was MEAT, as if to rub it in my

face. I responded that we consume plenty of protein in our diets and I would be

happy to discuss this with her further off the board or I could give her some

good reading material on the subject. I then write that I feel she was attacking

me on a separate topic other than my question.

She then responded that she has the right to her own opinion (don't I?) and

that is what that board is for (although it clearly states support).

I chose not to respond to ignorance. I feel I offered her choices to learn and

improve her knowledge, and you can lead a horse to water.....

Sounds like you have some great questions, my favorite is how can people still

be this ignorant about vegetarian/veganism with all of the information

available. One of the other mom's responded that she was veg for 2 years, but

her dr made her return to eating meat, as her health issuses had gotten worse. I

was sitting with my jaw to the floor! She didnt change dr immediately?

Best wishes,

 

Cassie

" life's a garden, dig it! "

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Jul 8, 2008, at 2:06 PM, sahmomof8 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

 

Someone on another list posted about her mental and physical ailments, and

her husband's. She was writing (I think) defensively, because I had posted

about my homebirth (at age 48), and she had two kids and was older and

couldn't

have any more due to her health issues. I wasn't writing to make anyone feel

bad--I was responding to a question from another group member about age,

pregnancy, and the number of kids I had.

 

Anyway, she " defended " herself about HER family planning choice (I hadn't

asked) by listing her and her husband's ailments. So I responded by asking her

if she'd read anything by Ornish, McDougall, Esselstyn, etc. because I had

been aware of many, many people being helped by a vegan diet.

 

SIGH. Wouldn't you know it. She blasted back about how sick and weak she'd

gotten on the vegan diet! She'd tried it and HAD to go back to meat (and her

health " improved " ). She also wrote about her supposedly vegan/macrobiotic

relative or friend (I forget) who went to all these alternative health

practitioners, but had a family history of breast cancer and died young like

her other

family members had, despite her diet. She said she believed that if her

friend had gone to traditional doctors, she'd still be alive, blah, blah,

blah....

 

My questions are these, I guess.

 

1. What makes people SO defensive about their lifestyle choices that they

feel the need to blast someone else when I wasn't even directing my original

comments to her? That's kind of a " just venting " question.

 

2. With all the research out there, is it even POSSIBLE to get sicker on a

vegan diet (supposedly a medically supervised one--no clue what she'd been

told by the doctors, actually), and better when meat is reintroduced?

 

3. How many of us keep our mouths shut about what we know might help

someone, for fear of just this very thing happening (someone blasting us, and

totally contradicitng our information- -right or wrong)?

 

4. Are we ever WRONG for suggesting someone check into a vegan diet to

improve their health?

 

I rarely mention the diet/health connection to anyone because I know it's a

sensitive issue. But I also kind of got tired of keeping my mouth shut, when

that information might actually HELP someone. I NEVER say it's the " only right

way " . What I say is that " many people " have been helped by vegan diets, and

I give resources to check out. Period.

 

I guess my MAIN question is--is that wrong to do? Marilyn

 

************ **Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for

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000000007)

 

[Guest guest]

Always asking a parent is sooo important. Allergies, I didnt even think of, but

can be deadly.

 

Cassie

" life's a garden, dig it! "

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Jul 11, 2008, at 12:38 PM, " Dianna Lu " <diannalu wrote:

 

That is so scary to me too. What about food allergies? And I have had plenty of

people offer hard candy to my child when she was too small to deal with it. What

is with people? I never give other kids even a cracker without asking the

parent, you never know what someone is allergic to.

 

-

Cassie Dixon

 

Thursday, July 10, 2008 3:52 PM

Re: Can anyone explain this?

 

As a teacher myself, I know first hand how unhealthy snacks can get there, but,

that woman should be reprimanded! I am sending my 2 yo daughter to school (there

us on site daycare provided for teachers at my new school) and I have heard from

a few of my coworkers how the little ones take walks all over campus and certain

office staff provide candy and cookies for them. I am going to have to start off

having to confront these individuals. Hopefully they will respect my wishes, as

I am a coworker, but that teacher of your son's should have respected you.

 

Cassie

" life's a garden, dig it! "

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Jul 9, 2008, at 10:36 PM, Lebasi <lebasi.klotko wrote:

 

I m getting this from lots of people. Recently my sons teacher who did not

believe me when I told her my son doesnt like sugary foods. I told her if she

needed me to provide stuff Id be happy to becuase my son wont eat cookies, cake,

candy. He has maybe 3 treats he likes.

 

She didnt believe me so She gave him oreos and chocolate chip cookies for snack

and told him not eat the almonds I sent. He came home hungry and upset so I had

to send her a letter. He is so funny. He knew what she was doing. Trying to see

if I wouldnt let him have them. She probably thinks I dont let my child eat

these things. When in fact all I did was teach him about food and he makes his

own choices.

On the other subject I went to a barbecue this Fourth of July and everyone was

tyring to convince me to eat meat. I was almost amused to the lengths people

will go to feel righteous. My husband keeps trying too. I think out of guilt. I

told him I wont stop cooking his meat if he wouldnt impose it on me.

I also starting working out and lifting weights I want to prove I can build

muscle on my new diet and prove them all wrong.

 

 

Cassie Dixon <roxy87cabriolet

" "

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 11:52:43 AM

Re: Can anyone explain this?

 

Something similar happened to me a week ago. I was asking a mom how she got her

husband to join her in eliminating candy and soda from her children. I related

it to my husband giving our 2 yo un-watered down juice and sneaking her a piece

of chicken.

She then wrote back insisting that all humans need protien and if she were

Lily's father, she would do the same thing, except at every meal... The worst

part was that every time she wrote meat, it was MEAT, as if to rub it in my

face. I responded that we consume plenty of protein in our diets and I would be

happy to discuss this with her further off the board or I could give her some

good reading material on the subject. I then write that I feel she was attacking

me on a separate topic other than my question.

She then responded that she has the right to her own opinion (don't I?) and that

is what that board is for (although it clearly states support).

I chose not to respond to ignorance. I feel I offered her choices to learn and

improve her knowledge, and you can lead a horse to water.....

Sounds like you have some great questions, my favorite is how can people still

be this ignorant about vegetarian/veganism with all of the information

available. One of the other mom's responded that she was veg for 2 years, but

her dr made her return to eating meat, as her health issuses had gotten worse. I

was sitting with my jaw to the floor! She didnt change dr immediately?

Best wishes,

 

Cassie

" life's a garden, dig it! "

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Jul 8, 2008, at 2:06 PM, sahmomof8 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

 

Someone on another list posted about her mental and physical ailments, and

her husband's. She was writing (I think) defensively, because I had posted

about my homebirth (at age 48), and she had two kids and was older and couldn't

have any more due to her health issues. I wasn't writing to make anyone feel

bad--I was responding to a question from another group member about age,

pregnancy, and the number of kids I had.

 

Anyway, she " defended " herself about HER family planning choice (I hadn't

asked) by listing her and her husband's ailments. So I responded by asking her

if she'd read anything by Ornish, McDougall, Esselstyn, etc. because I had

been aware of many, many people being helped by a vegan diet.

 

SIGH. Wouldn't you know it. She blasted back about how sick and weak she'd

gotten on the vegan diet! She'd tried it and HAD to go back to meat (and her

health " improved " ). She also wrote about her supposedly vegan/macrobiotic

relative or friend (I forget) who went to all these alternative health

practitioners, but had a family history of breast cancer and died young like her

other

family members had, despite her diet. She said she believed that if her

friend had gone to traditional doctors, she'd still be alive, blah, blah,

blah....

 

My questions are these, I guess.

 

1. What makes people SO defensive about their lifestyle choices that they

feel the need to blast someone else when I wasn't even directing my original

comments to her? That's kind of a " just venting " question.

 

2. With all the research out there, is it even POSSIBLE to get sicker on a

vegan diet (supposedly a medically supervised one--no clue what she'd been

told by the doctors, actually), and better when meat is reintroduced?

 

3. How many of us keep our mouths shut about what we know might help

someone, for fear of just this very thing happening (someone blasting us, and

totally contradicitng our information- -right or wrong)?

 

4. Are we ever WRONG for suggesting someone check into a vegan diet to

improve their health?

 

I rarely mention the diet/health connection to anyone because I know it's a

sensitive issue. But I also kind of got tired of keeping my mouth shut, when

that information might actually HELP someone. I NEVER say it's the " only right

way " . What I say is that " many people " have been helped by vegan diets, and

I give resources to check out. Period.

 

I guess my MAIN question is--is that wrong to do? Marilyn

 

************ **Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for

fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos. aol.com/used? ncid=aolaut00050

000000007)

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sorry about the migraine, Missie! Hope you feel better soon. I was enjoying

your insights! Marilyn

 

 

 

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