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....that bivalves most likely do not feel pain.

 

Bivalves include clams, mussels, etc.

 

Peter Singer wrote " Animal Liberation " and he makes this case in " The Way We

Eat, " which I recently read. He basically says that if one is trying to eat

ethically, bivalves would be an acceptable choice provided they are

harvested " sustainably " (if there is such a thing).

 

What do you think? I ask not because I'm excited to eat these things (as

filtrating creatures, they're basically the sewer system of the ocean), but

because I'm curious to know how other veg*ns respond to this statement from

a notable animal activist.

 

Chandelle

 

--

" The demand for equal rights in every vocation of life is just and fair;

but, after all, the most vital right is the right to love and be loved. "

~Emma Goldman

 

 

 

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Hi Chandelle,

Ah, I still see them as animals. I think having muscles or

non-plant-based connective tissue makes them animals in my mind. Pete

can eat them if he likes, but like you said, they're filtering beings -

and to me they're animals - so I'll take a pass. Plus, I wouldn't have

enjoyed them even when I was a kid and ate meat. It's not like I miss

fishy tasting, rubbery stuff passed off as food. :-) Makes me think of

the days my uncle used to dive for abalone and tell us it was just like

chicken . . . sure, unc, super rubbery, wingless, featherless, weird

tasting, toxin-filled chicken. Yumm. (kidding! Those were nights of

pb & j dinner for me!) But, I think everyone should make their own

decision . . . mine, respectfully, will be to continue to not eat what I

feel are animals. :-)

Have a great day,

Lorraine

 

 

On

Behalf Of chandelle

Friday, January 23, 2009 10:15 AM

 

Peter Singer says...

 

....that bivalves most likely do not feel pain.

 

Bivalves include clams, mussels, etc.

 

Peter Singer wrote " Animal Liberation " and he makes this case in " The

Way We

Eat, " which I recently read. He basically says that if one is trying to

eat

ethically, bivalves would be an acceptable choice provided they are

harvested " sustainably " (if there is such a thing).

 

What do you think? I ask not because I'm excited to eat these things (as

filtrating creatures, they're basically the sewer system of the ocean),

but

because I'm curious to know how other veg*ns respond to this statement

from

a notable animal activist.

 

Chandelle

 

--

" The demand for equal rights in every vocation of life is just and fair;

but, after all, the most vital right is the right to love and be loved. "

~Emma Goldman

 

 

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To me, it makes no difference. I don't eat meat for a multitude of reasons, and

the pain the creatures are in is certainly one of them, but basically for me, it

boils down to this: I don't have the right to take anothers' life simply for my

own convenience. I don't need animals to live, and life is quite tasty without

it, so why bother?

My 2 cents...

jenni

 

--- On Fri, 1/23/09, chandelle <earthmother213 wrote:

 

chandelle <earthmother213

Peter Singer says...

 

Friday, January 23, 2009, 10:15 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

....that bivalves most likely do not feel pain.

 

Bivalves include clams, mussels, etc.

 

Peter Singer wrote " Animal Liberation " and he makes this case in " The Way We

Eat, " which I recently read. He basically says that if one is trying to eat

ethically, bivalves would be an acceptable choice provided they are

harvested " sustainably " (if there is such a thing).

 

What do you think? I ask not because I'm excited to eat these things (as

filtrating creatures, they're basically the sewer system of the ocean), but

because I'm curious to know how other veg*ns respond to this statement from

a notable animal activist.

 

Chandelle

 

--

" The demand for equal rights in every vocation of life is just and fair;

but, after all, the most vital right is the right to love and be loved. "

~Emma Goldman

 

 

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Here's my stance:

 

Bivalves, while not having a central nervous system like ours, have a nerve

net. They respond to the pain of having their bodies ripped when their

shells are opened by pulling their shells shut....if they are still alive

after the shell has been opened, you can poke them and they will move in

response. While it's not a ton of evidence, it's enough to convince me that

they are, in fact, sentient beings. Being vegan, I do not believe in eating

or exploiting sentient beings....regardless of how small or how much

evidence I have for it.

It's very frustrating when people who do SO MUCH good for the animal rights

movement argue that a living creature, for whatever reason, can and should

be exploited for our own purposes.

 

 

 

 

 

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Peter Singer says lots of goofy things, in my opinion. I don't know if I

would identify Mr. Singer as an activist, Chandelle: he is an academic and

sometimes I feel he is disengaged completely from anything that isn't a

theoretical argument.

 

As a vegan for ethical reasons, I would argue that bivalves are not part of

the plant kingdom, and no matter how primitive their anatomies might seem to

us, we have no idea how they experience pain. What he is saying is filtered

through a human's lens and a human's set of values. Maybe it doesn't

register in a way that we can chart or recognize. Furthermore, our seas have

been decimated and ravaged for human consumption: even the most

" sustainable " sea animal husbandry has a big ol' footprint. And the bottom

line to me is always that eating animals isn't necessary and it does

necessarily inflict harm. Therefore, I abstain.

 

Marla

 

 

> ...that bivalves most likely do not feel pain.

>

> Bivalves include clams, mussels, etc.

>

> Peter Singer wrote " Animal Liberation " and he makes this case in " The Way We

> Eat, " which I recently read. He basically says that if one is trying to eat

> ethically, bivalves would be an acceptable choice provided they are

> harvested " sustainably " (if there is such a thing).

>

> What do you think? I ask not because I'm excited to eat these things (as

> filtrating creatures, they're basically the sewer system of the ocean), but

> because I'm curious to know how other veg*ns respond to this statement from

> a notable animal activist.

>

> Chandelle

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Reading this really makes me sad. I feel that it is justifying the

suffering of another being for the benifit of human indulgence.

Comments like these lessen the intensity of the cause, and leads to

a wider misunderstanding of vegetarians/vegans among those who do

eat meat. I am among the group of people who would never consider

eating any flesh from any sort of animal, including bivalves. It

also brings to light the fact that some people call themselves pesca

vegetarians. Eating the flesh of any animal weather furry,

feathered, finned or those with a shell means that you are not a

vegetarian! I for one, am tired of people assuming that i eat fish

when i tell them i am a vegetarian. That is why i refuse to use the

term pesca vegetarian and will gladly let anyone who asks or assumes

that vegetarians eat some sorts of meat that they unfortunately are

missinformed and that to be a true vegetarian you obstain from all

meat and leather/fur ect. Sorry for the rant i can get pretty

passionate. Also sorry for the spelling errors i have never been a

good speller.

Amity

 

, chandelle <earthmother213

wrote:

>

> ...that bivalves most likely do not feel pain.

>

> Bivalves include clams, mussels, etc.

>

> Peter Singer wrote " Animal Liberation " and he makes this case

in " The Way We

> Eat, " which I recently read. He basically says that if one is

trying to eat

> ethically, bivalves would be an acceptable choice provided they are

> harvested " sustainably " (if there is such a thing).

>

> What do you think? I ask not because I'm excited to eat these

things (as

> filtrating creatures, they're basically the sewer system of the

ocean), but

> because I'm curious to know how other veg*ns respond to this

statement from

> a notable animal activist.

>

> Chandelle

>

> --

> " The demand for equal rights in every vocation of life is just and

fair;

> but, after all, the most vital right is the right to love and be

loved. "

> ~Emma Goldman

>

>

>

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