Cheri- Teen Vegan/Vegetarian

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your input on this situation I am going through with

her. Me and my husband are on differant wave lengths on this one. I

am just pulling for ideas. On his perspective he looks at is kind of

same way as you do. TO not force her to make a decision when she is

out. But to give her the right tools to make the decision on her own

while out. Then I can only think of it as this is the way our life is

now. She should respect it. Kind of like with her being diabetic. She

counts carbs and does her shots here at home. Why would she go out to

friends and school and not do the same thing. It is just a moral

dilemma I suppose. We still have alot of talking to do with her. Go

over some things. I apprecaite you repsonding to this with your

honest opinion. I respect anyone who can be honest and say how they

feel about this. Your opinion along with all the others will be going

around in my head. When we make a decision and speak with her. As all

opinions have wonderful points. Thank you so very much.

 

Cheri

 

, Jenn <jenny.wren76 wrote:

>

> *I* wouldn't want to make that decision for my teen, when she is

> outside of my home.

> I can choose what *I* buy and prepare at home, but I can't choose

what

> is availalbe outside my home.

> I know LOTS of husbands who are fine eating veggie at home, but when

> they are at work, or go out to

> eat for a meeting, then they eat whatever is available or

looks/sounds

> good at the time.

> I think that if you try to force it on them, then they'll reject it.

> But it's perfectly logical and acceptable

> to set the boundary of what you allow IN your home. She's learning

to

> make her own decisions, and while

> you naturally want what's best for her, you just can't control what

> she chooses to do when she's out of your

> home. Ya know? I don't think it's realistic to think you can

> 'demand' that she not eat meat at school or at a

> friend's house, etc., because you really can't enforce it. You can

> choose to engage in the battle with her, and

> inflict some sort of punishment after the fact, but I don't think

that

> will sway her opinion. I say, be an example,

> talk about WHY you choose to be vegan, play those Food for Thought

> podcasts when she's there to hear them, and

> hope that she will become convicted about veganism as you are. :-

) I

> hope that makes sense.

>

> ~Jenn

>

[Guest guest]

I agree that it would be very, very difficult to dictate what a 13 y.o. can and

cannot eat outside of your home.  I don't know that I would try except to

convince her of the benefits of not doing so.  HOWEVER, please, if she continues

to eat meat, please, do not refer to her (or allow her to refer to herself) as a

vegetarian until she has completely stopped.  It is these types of " vegetarians "

that create a lot of confusion for meateaters.....that includes any husbands who

eat meat at business meating.  Also, it is sad that there is an impression that

men are less strict as vegetarians.  My husband is a very strict vegan, who does

attend business meetings and is not tempted (at all).

 

--- On Tue, 2/10/09, Jenn <jenny.wren76 wrote:

 

Jenn <jenny.wren76

Cheri- Teen Vegan/Vegetarian

 

Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 4:32 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

*I* wouldn't want to make that decision for my teen, when she is

outside of my home.

I can choose what *I* buy and prepare at home, but I can't choose what

is availalbe outside my home.

I know LOTS of husbands who are fine eating veggie at home, but when

they are at work, or go out to

eat for a meeting, then they eat whatever is available or looks/sounds

good at the time.

I think that if you try to force it on them, then they'll reject it.

But it's perfectly logical and acceptable

to set the boundary of what you allow IN your home. She's learning to

make her own decisions, and while

you naturally want what's best for her, you just can't control what

she chooses to do when she's out of your

home. Ya know? I don't think it's realistic to think you can

'demand' that she not eat meat at school or at a

friend's house, etc., because you really can't enforce it. You can

choose to engage in the battle with her, and

inflict some sort of punishment after the fact, but I don't think that

will sway her opinion. I say, be an example,

talk about WHY you choose to be vegan, play those Food for Thought

podcasts when she's there to hear them, and

hope that she will become convicted about veganism as you are. :-) I

hope that makes sense.

 

~Jenn

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I can understand your point of view. I think it is a totally

different situation though, to have raised a child as a

vegan/vegetarian for their whole or even most of their life, and

enforce those 'rules'- than to switch when they are much older and

expect them to adopt your new lifestyle choice wholeheartedly even

when they have limited choices while out in public and with a group of

friends.

 

I would not expect my child to be potentially offensive to a host by

announcing her dietary status at the dinner table or while the person

was preparing a meal (after they've already made a meal plan). I

think it's a great idea to call ahead and discuss the issue with the

host, but not in a way MEANT to purposely shame your daughter.

 

Religion is a totally different subject, and I honestly do not believe

we will ever be able to agree on that one. My daughter IS an

agnostic/atheist/polytheist. I know those terms don't belong

together. You simply can NOT force someone to believe something. You

can force certain circumstances, and you can punish them for certain

behaviors, but that does NOT make them believe. I am an atheist

myself, but you can probably tell by my username that this wasn't

always so. My parents have NO idea, because I know it would cause

them grief and they would give me and my family a hard time about,

probably gossip about me to their siblings, etc. So, this has cause a

bit of a gulf between us, and I don't feel free to share my new

'beliefs' with my parents. I have NO desire to be ridiculed or

bullied or shamed for them, and I don't see how anyone would. I know

they would still 'love' me in their hearts, but I'm not sure their

actions would seem loving from my point of view.

I am a bit of a pacifist, and I don't believe in forcing my beliefs on

anyone else. I believe that our ethical choices mean MUCH more when

we actually CHOOSE them, as opposed to having no choice to make.

 

All that being said, I AM a homeschooler, so my children are home or

with me just about 24/7. *I* am changing my food shopping and

preparation habits, and that will affect the food choices available to

my family. I will not harass my children when they are adults and

they make their own decisions. Hopefully by then, they will have been

exposed to all of my many, many, many reasons for choosing this

lifestyle.

Peace,

Jenn

 

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 4:38 AM, Jacqueline Bodnar

<jb wrote:

>

> I have to respectfully disagree with this. I think you can demand that

> the teen not eat meat, even outside if your home. I would hope that you

> do this with other things as well, such as taking drugs, drinking

> alcohol, speeding in their car, stealing, sex, etc.

[Guest guest]

With kids, especially teens, you have to choose your battles.  We choose

primarily those that affect health, safety, and education; this may occasionally

lead to some really bad wardrobe choices, horrendous music and People magazine,

but we seem to be raising a smart and sensible kid (check back with me in ten

years, and I'll let you know if we were right).

 

Robin

 

--- On Tue, 2/10/09, Jillene Wenzel <jillben2008 wrote:

 

Jillene Wenzel <jillben2008

Re: Cheri- Teen Vegan/Vegetarian

 

Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 8:31 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that it would be very, very difficult to dictate what a 13 y.o. can and

cannot eat outside of your home.  I don't know that I would try except to

convince her of the benefits of not doing so.  HOWEVER, please, if she continues

to eat meat, please, do not refer to her (or allow her to refer to herself) as a

vegetarian until she has completely stopped.  It is these types of " vegetarians "

that create a lot of confusion for meateaters.. ...that includes any husbands

who eat meat at business meating.  Also, it is sad that there is an impression

that men are less strict as vegetarians.  My husband is a very strict vegan, who

does attend business meetings and is not tempted (at all).

 

--- On Tue, 2/10/09, Jenn <jenny.wren76@ gmail.com> wrote:

 

Jenn <jenny.wren76@ gmail.com>

Cheri- Teen Vegan/Vegetarian

@gro ups.com

Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 4:32 AM

 

*I* wouldn't want to make that decision for my teen, when she is

outside of my home.

I can choose what *I* buy and prepare at home, but I can't choose what

is availalbe outside my home.

I know LOTS of husbands who are fine eating veggie at home, but when

they are at work, or go out to

eat for a meeting, then they eat whatever is available or looks/sounds

good at the time.

I think that if you try to force it on them, then they'll reject it.

But it's perfectly logical and acceptable

to set the boundary of what you allow IN your home. She's learning to

make her own decisions, and while

you naturally want what's best for her, you just can't control what

she chooses to do when she's out of your

home. Ya know? I don't think it's realistic to think you can

'demand' that she not eat meat at school or at a

friend's house, etc., because you really can't enforce it. You can

choose to engage in the battle with her, and

inflict some sort of punishment after the fact, but I don't think that

will sway her opinion. I say, be an example,

talk about WHY you choose to be vegan, play those Food for Thought

podcasts when she's there to hear them, and

hope that she will become convicted about veganism as you are. :-) I

hope that makes sense.

 

~Jenn

 

 

[Guest guest]

Cheri,

Remember, there is no such thing as failure as in parenting, unless it

really harms another person.

Be gentle with yourself and your children. Yes, you are learning on this new

exciting path of " ahimsa " doing no harm. Plus, parenthood is all about

learning and especially those lessons we learn from our children.

Laura

 

 

In a message dated 2/10/2009 3:41:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

warrensangels writes:

 

Maybe

I failed as a parent not giving her enough information. We are new to

this life. So we live and learn. Maybe all of us can learn something

from this experience not just her.

 

**************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy

Awards. AOL Music takes you there.

(http://music.aol.com/grammys?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000002)

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

No teenager wants to be seen as a hypocrite, either. Gently

confronting her with something like -- it's your choice, but don't call

yourself vegetarian if you're not going to be one -- might bring the

cognitive dissonance to the forefront.

[Guest guest]

I totally agree with you on that one. My husband is in the Navy, and

I think that on *some* level that the men feel the need to prove

to the other men that they 'wear the pants' and can make decisions

for themselves. I wish we could turn that around, and show them that

*real men* are able to stand up for themselves in a group, overcome

peer pressure, and do not have to cause harm to another being in order

to eat a meal- that it takes more *machismo* to stand up for yourself

to other men who want to taunt you for your choices, than to stand up

to your wife- who cares about your health and well being.

 

Jenn

 

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Jillene Wenzel <jillben2008 wrote:

> It is these

> types of " vegetarians " that create a lot of confusion for

> meateaters.....that includes any husbands who eat meat at business meating.

> Also, it is sad that there is an impression that men are less strict as

> vegetarians. My husband is a very strict vegan, who does attend business

> meetings and is not tempted (at all).

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are very welcome to my opinion, LOL. I honestly don't always

share it, because of past experiences with people talking 'down' to me

or trashing me because of it. So feel privileged ;-)

 

Okay, having to make limited choices as a diabetic is just not the

same, in my opinion, as choosing whether or not to consume animal

flesh or products. She will have more direct and immediate

consequences if she eats something that will send her blood sugar out

of control, than she will if she eats a hamburger or a piece of

chicken.

As far as expecting HER to 'respect' YOUR 'way of life', respect goes

both ways. She is a person worthy of respect, just as you are. Her

feelings are valid, though you may not agree with them.

I am wondering now, are your vegan or just vegetarian? I can see a

HUGE difference in the 'moral' 'ethical' ramifications between the

two. And what are your exact reasons for changing your diet? Is it

mostly for health reasons? If so, that may be much harder for a 13

year old to swallow. Is it mostly for ethical reasons? I think it'd

be MUCH easier to become totally vegan if you are veggie for ethical

reasons, and it would make more sense to a 13 year old to see a more

consistent humane effort in your consumption than if you were still

eating/buying dairy products, etc. Hope that makes sense. Just a

thought to throw out there.

 

Jenn

 

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:32 AM, PEBBLES N BAM-BAM!!!!!

<warrensangels wrote:

On his perspective he looks at is kind of

> same way as you do. TO not force her to make a decision when she is

> out. But to give her the right tools to make the decision on her own

> while out. Then I can only think of it as this is the way our life is

> now. She should respect it. Kind of like with her being diabetic. She

> counts carbs and does her shots here at home. Why would she go out to

> friends and school and not do the same thing. It is just a moral

> dilemma I suppose.

[Guest guest]

I'm with Robin on this one.

I'd also think that she should be given credit in that she's open

about doing so. Maybe she is struggling with fitting and going 'with

the flow' when out with friends because it is easier for her, since

she is already 'outside' of the norm being diabetic. She could be

awkward about it. It's good that the lines of communication are still

open, since so many 13yr olds slam the door shut on their folks. I

tried to, but mom kept knocking and we've always had a good

relationship because of it.

Sure she's not doing the right thing, but I'd talk with her more, and

go the 'you can't really call yourself a vegetarian if you are still

eating meat', Because that is true. Maybe find out more - and think

about what her words could mean - besides what they actually say -

read between the lines so to speak. Maybe she needs help in telling

others or some boost of confidence from you to help her in the 'dark

times' when she's away. Maybe start in with praise for her letting you

know and knowing she could come to you with that info.

Don't just blow up at her - really listen and see what she's really

trying to ask you underneath the 'but it was just a little of xyz. and

that was my only serving'. Would it be ok if she had 'just one beer'?

I'm thinking no. She will have harder and more firm decisions to make

the more she's on her own, and you won't always be able to check up on

her every second of every day, so you should arm her with information

and ways to deal with peer pressure, etc. and it's the little issues

like this that help her make more informed decisions later on, and

help her find the 'power' within herself to stand up for herself in

these situations.

Maybe try to relate to the situation on her level to understand where

she's coming from - she's a teen and therefor not always going to be

logical, or even be a small grown up in her decisions. This might not

be a battle but maybe a way for her to get a dialogue going and asking

for help when she's out - fitting in is a big motivator, but standing

out in this way could be a good thing. Just some thoughts that came to

me when I was replying.

Hope it's helpful.

Missie

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:13 AM, robin koloms <rkoloms wrote:

> With kids, especially teens, you have to choose your battles. We choose

> primarily those that affect health, safety, and education; this may

> occasionally lead to some really bad wardrobe choices, horrendous music and

> People magazine, but we seem to be raising a smart and sensible kid (check

> back with me in ten years, and I'll let you know if we were right).

>

> Robin

>

> --- On Tue, 2/10/09, Jillene Wenzel <jillben2008 wrote:

>

> Jillene Wenzel <jillben2008

> Re: Cheri- Teen Vegan/Vegetarian

>

> Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 8:31 AM

>

> I agree that it would be very, very difficult to dictate what a 13 y.o. can

> and cannot eat outside of your home. I don't know that I would try except

> to convince her of the benefits of not doing so. HOWEVER, please, if she

> continues to eat meat, please, do not refer to her (or allow her to refer to

> herself) as a vegetarian until she has completely stopped. It is these

> types of " vegetarians " that create a lot of confusion for meateaters..

> ...that includes any husbands who eat meat at business meating. Also, it is

> sad that there is an impression that men are less strict as vegetarians. My

> husband is a very strict vegan, who does attend business meetings and is not

> tempted (at all).

>

> --- On Tue, 2/10/09, Jenn <jenny.wren76@ gmail.com> wrote:

>

> Jenn <jenny.wren76@ gmail.com>

> Cheri- Teen Vegan/Vegetarian

> @gro ups.com

> Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 4:32 AM

>

> *I* wouldn't want to make that decision for my teen, when she is

> outside of my home.

> I can choose what *I* buy and prepare at home, but I can't choose what

> is availalbe outside my home.

> I know LOTS of husbands who are fine eating veggie at home, but when

> they are at work, or go out to

> eat for a meeting, then they eat whatever is available or looks/sounds

> good at the time.

> I think that if you try to force it on them, then they'll reject it.

> But it's perfectly logical and acceptable

> to set the boundary of what you allow IN your home. She's learning to

> make her own decisions, and while

> you naturally want what's best for her, you just can't control what

> she chooses to do when she's out of your

> home. Ya know? I don't think it's realistic to think you can

> 'demand' that she not eat meat at school or at a

> friend's house, etc., because you really can't enforce it. You can

> choose to engage in the battle with her, and

> inflict some sort of punishment after the fact, but I don't think that

> will sway her opinion. I say, be an example,

> talk about WHY you choose to be vegan, play those Food for Thought

> podcasts when she's there to hear them, and

> hope that she will become convicted about veganism as you are. :-) I

> hope that makes sense.

>

> ~Jenn

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am very glad she did come to me. She is usually pretty good about

coming to me when has a problem. I could only imagine how hard it was

for her to come to and tell me this. We are vegetarian, not full

VEGAN. We still eat and drink dairy and eggs. We do this for 2

reasons. One being for health. That is the main reason. We also are

trying to me ethical about it too. Trying to share with the girls why

we should no longer eat meat. I think I will speak to her more about

this. Just see where she is coming from. I really did not talk to her

much more than asking her what all she ate. I was really upset at

first. I think I need to definatly look at it differantly with her. I

think if I can arm her with all the information and give her the

tools in helping with those situations again. She may just choose our

way of life. She really does like it. I know she didnt do it because

she wants to eat meat. I think it was just it was a situation she was

unprepared for. Was not sure what to do. So instead of causing a

scene at youth group. She just went with the flow. I am going to

speak to her tonight along with dad. Give her more information. Maybe

I failed as a parent not giving her enough information. We are new to

this life. So we live and learn. Maybe all of us can learn something

from this experience not just her.

 

I want to thank you all for your ideas, opinions and support. It has

helped me to see it in many differant ways. I apprecaite it very much.

 

Cheri

 

 

 

 

, Missie <mszzzi wrote:

>

> I'm with Robin on this one.

> I'd also think that she should be given credit in that she's open

> about doing so. Maybe she is struggling with fitting and going 'with

> the flow' when out with friends because it is easier for her, since

> she is already 'outside' of the norm being diabetic. She could be

> awkward about it. It's good that the lines of communication are

still

> open, since so many 13yr olds slam the door shut on their folks. I

> tried to, but mom kept knocking and we've always had a good

> relationship because of it.

> Sure she's not doing the right thing, but I'd talk with her more,

and

> go the 'you can't really call yourself a vegetarian if you are still

> eating meat', Because that is true. Maybe find out more - and think

> about what her words could mean - besides what they actually say -

> read between the lines so to speak. Maybe she needs help in telling

> others or some boost of confidence from you to help her in the 'dark

> times' when she's away. Maybe start in with praise for her letting

you

> know and knowing she could come to you with that info.

> Don't just blow up at her - really listen and see what she's really

> trying to ask you underneath the 'but it was just a little of xyz.

and

> that was my only serving'. Would it be ok if she had 'just one

beer'?

> I'm thinking no. She will have harder and more firm decisions to

make

> the more she's on her own, and you won't always be able to check up

on

> her every second of every day, so you should arm her with

information

> and ways to deal with peer pressure, etc. and it's the little issues

> like this that help her make more informed decisions later on, and

> help her find the 'power' within herself to stand up for herself in

> these situations.

> Maybe try to relate to the situation on her level to understand

where

> she's coming from - she's a teen and therefor not always going to be

> logical, or even be a small grown up in her decisions. This might

not

> be a battle but maybe a way for her to get a dialogue going and

asking

> for help when she's out - fitting in is a big motivator, but

standing

> out in this way could be a good thing. Just some thoughts that came

to

> me when I was replying.

> Hope it's helpful.

> Missie

>

>

>

>

> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:13 AM, robin koloms <rkoloms wrote:

> > With kids, especially teens, you have to choose your battles. We

choose

> > primarily those that affect health, safety, and education; this

may

> > occasionally lead to some really bad wardrobe choices, horrendous

music and

> > People magazine, but we seem to be raising a smart and sensible

kid (check

> > back with me in ten years, and I'll let you know if we were

right).

> >

> > Robin

> >

> > --- On Tue, 2/10/09, Jillene Wenzel <jillben2008 wrote:

> >

> > Jillene Wenzel <jillben2008

> > Re: Cheri- Teen Vegan/Vegetarian

> >

> > Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 8:31 AM

> >

> > I agree that it would be very, very difficult to dictate what a

13 y.o. can

> > and cannot eat outside of your home. I don't know that I would

try except

> > to convince her of the benefits of not doing so. HOWEVER,

please, if she

> > continues to eat meat, please, do not refer to her (or allow her

to refer to

> > herself) as a vegetarian until she has completely stopped. It is

these

> > types of " vegetarians " that create a lot of confusion for

meateaters..

> > ...that includes any husbands who eat meat at business meating.

Also, it is

> > sad that there is an impression that men are less strict as

vegetarians. My

> > husband is a very strict vegan, who does attend business meetings

and is not

> > tempted (at all).

> >

> > --- On Tue, 2/10/09, Jenn <jenny.wren76@ gmail.com> wrote:

> >

> > Jenn <jenny.wren76@ gmail.com>

> > Cheri- Teen Vegan/Vegetarian

> > @gro ups.com

> > Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 4:32 AM

> >

> > *I* wouldn't want to make that decision for my teen, when she is

> > outside of my home.

> > I can choose what *I* buy and prepare at home, but I can't choose

what

> > is availalbe outside my home.

> > I know LOTS of husbands who are fine eating veggie at home, but

when

> > they are at work, or go out to

> > eat for a meeting, then they eat whatever is available or

looks/sounds

> > good at the time.

> > I think that if you try to force it on them, then they'll reject

it.

> > But it's perfectly logical and acceptable

> > to set the boundary of what you allow IN your home. She's

learning to

> > make her own decisions, and while

> > you naturally want what's best for her, you just can't control

what

> > she chooses to do when she's out of your

> > home. Ya know? I don't think it's realistic to think you can

> > 'demand' that she not eat meat at school or at a

> > friend's house, etc., because you really can't enforce it. You can

> > choose to engage in the battle with her, and

> > inflict some sort of punishment after the fact, but I don't think

that

> > will sway her opinion. I say, be an example,

> > talk about WHY you choose to be vegan, play those Food for Thought

> > podcasts when she's there to hear them, and

> > hope that she will become convicted about veganism as you are. :-

) I

> > hope that makes sense.

> >

> > ~Jenn

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

, " e_amyvaughn " <e_amyvaughn

wrote:

>

> No teenager wants to be seen as a hypocrite, either. Gently

> confronting her with something like -- it's your choice, but don't

call

> yourself vegetarian if you're not going to be one -- might bring the

> cognitive dissonance to the forefront.

>

I know its been said but you really have to let the girl go and make

her own choices.

It would be wonderful if our children did everything we wanted them to

because alot of what we want our children to do is for their own good

or what we wish we had done ourselves. But they are their own beings

and as parents we have to respect them as individuals who have the

right to mostly make their own decisions and make their own mistakes.

Shaming or using scare tactics are only going to backfire

eventually,just be glad that for the most part,at home,she is eating

healthy food.

lead by example!

[Guest guest]

My oldest son is 14. We have raised our 4 boys to be vegan from the

beginning so I can't speak to " changing over " . But we approached it from

an ethical perspective (per Jay Gordan, MD's approach that we heard at a

Le Leche League conference and read in his book " Good Food Today, Great

Kids Tomorrow " ). Since children are naturally empathetic towards animals

it is an easy " sell " . Though our real reason was to help avoid allergies.

As they've gotten older we've taught them the other benefits to the

" lifestyle " including health and environment. We refer to meat by it's

true name. We call them cow burgers, cow's milk, pig franks, etc. and

refer to them as flesh foods (we actually have a standing joke about the

Subway ads - - " Subway, eat FLESH! even though we do eat their veggie

subs minus the cheese). So I can't imagine any of them choosing to eat

meat. Cheese and dairy might be another thing - - but don't think they'll

ever choose to knowingly eat dead animals. Just how we've approached it.

Good luck!

__________

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