Guest guest Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Hi my son and I are fairly new vegetarians (about 3 months now). Anyway I have read a lot on eggs and how they are factory farmed. It is horrible. So here is my thought, for the last 3 weeks i have been buying eggs from a local amish farmer. Since this is not a factory farm the chickens should not be treated badly. right? I know from driving around the area I see chickens roaming freely around the farms. I just wanted some other input on this. I would love to go vegan but I just do not see it as an option. Soy milk is not my thing nor is soy yogurt. So i am trying to find a non abusive way to eat eggs and dairy from my local amish familys. Thanks in advance for any input! Michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Wow you are very lucky to have this. Chickens raised and slaughtered humanely is better than " free range " chickens that live in terrible conditions. However when their egg laying days are over, they are still slaughtered for meat. I'm in the same boat as you, having a hard time giving up eggs. My kids eat them almost daily, I only use them in baking. On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 7:17 PM, MECHELLE <myshadyboyz wrote: > Hi my son and I are fairly new vegetarians (about 3 months now). > Anyway I have read a lot on eggs and how they are factory farmed. It > is horrible. So here is my thought, for the last 3 weeks i have been > buying eggs from a local amish farmer. Since this is not a factory > farm the chickens should not be treated badly. right? I know from > driving around the area I see chickens roaming freely around the > farms. I just wanted some other input on this. > I would love to go vegan but I just do not see it as an option. Soy > milk is not my thing nor is soy yogurt. > So i am trying to find a non abusive way to eat eggs and dairy from my > local amish familys. > Thanks in advance for any input! > Michelle > > > -- Regards, Vibeke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 I felt the same way you do for a loooong time - that going that extra step to vegan just wasn't going to happen. It would be too hard and I loved cheese, mayo and baked goods. Honestly, when I finally did it I was amazed, truly amazed, at how not difficult it was. Maybe the timing was just right. But I have never had my baked goods not turn out - EnerG egg replacer is awesome and there are so many substitutes besides soy milk.... Anyway, don't rule it out. That's no different than meateaters blocking out vegetarianism thinking that it's too difficult. Good luck! --- On Wed, 2/18/09, robin koloms <rkoloms wrote: robin koloms <rkoloms Re: Egg questions Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 2:31 PM Hi Michelle, We buy free range eggs; organic ones when I have a coupon. Robin --- On Tue, 2/17/09, MECHELLE <myshadyboyz@ msn.com> wrote: MECHELLE <myshadyboyz@ msn.com> Egg questions @gro ups.com Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 6:17 PM Hi my son and I are fairly new vegetarians (about 3 months now). Anyway I have read a lot on eggs and how they are factory farmed. It is horrible. So here is my thought, for the last 3 weeks i have been buying eggs from a local amish farmer. Since this is not a factory farm the chickens should not be treated badly. right? I know from driving around the area I see chickens roaming freely around the farms. I just wanted some other input on this. I would love to go vegan but I just do not see it as an option. Soy milk is not my thing nor is soy yogurt. So i am trying to find a non abusive way to eat eggs and dairy from my local amish familys. Thanks in advance for any input! Michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 I also struggled with the idea of going vegan for a long time. The thing that worked for me was just trying different things. We've gone through soy milk, hemp milk, almond milk, rice milk, hazelnut milk.....all before deciding that for our family, rice milk works best. As far as eggs- EnerG Egg replacer is a Godsend - every single baked recipe I've tried has been fabulous....scrambled tofu has the same consistency as scrambled eggs~ you can even buy frozen breakfasts that have the tofu already prepared and seasoned for you! When I first started being vegan, we used some soy/rice cheeses in recipes (mostly mexican food) but I have found that the same creamy consistency is easy to get with roasted butternut squash- we add it to black bean and corn enchiladas, empanadas, quesadillas...in fact, every mexican dish that we want that creamy texture in has butternut squash! There are also great recipes for fake ricotta cheese (tofu, cashews, and seasoning- its insane how good it is!) and parmesan. These suggestions may sound like poor substitutes, but my husband even likes 99% of the vegan meals I make (and well, he's definitely not vegan). The few recipes he hasn't liked have been ones that I wasn't crazy about either, so I don't think it was the vegan factor, I think it was just flavors. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't rule out veganism. Yes, it takes some " research " to figure out what is going to work for your family, but its worth it in the end to know that you are not harming living creatures because of your food choices. Peace! On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Jillene Wenzel <jillben2008wrote: > I felt the same way you do for a loooong time - that going that extra > step to vegan just wasn't going to happen. It would be too hard and I loved > cheese, mayo and baked goods. Honestly, when I finally did it I was amazed, > truly amazed, at how not difficult it was. Maybe the timing was just right. > But I have never had my baked goods not turn out - EnerG egg replacer is > awesome and there are so many substitutes besides soy milk.... Anyway, > don't rule it out. That's no different than meateaters blocking out > vegetarianism thinking that it's too difficult. Good luck! > > --- On Wed, 2/18/09, robin koloms <rkoloms <rkoloms%40>> > wrote: > > robin koloms <rkoloms <rkoloms%40>> > Re: Egg questions > <%40> > Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 2:31 PM > > Hi Michelle, > > We buy free range eggs; organic ones when I have a coupon. > > Robin > > --- On Tue, 2/17/09, MECHELLE <myshadyboyz@ msn.com> wrote: > > MECHELLE <myshadyboyz@ msn.com> > Egg questions > @gro ups.com > Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 6:17 PM > > Hi my son and I are fairly new vegetarians (about 3 months now). > Anyway I have read a lot on eggs and how they are factory farmed. It > is horrible. So here is my thought, for the last 3 weeks i have been > buying eggs from a local amish farmer. Since this is not a factory > farm the chickens should not be treated badly. right? I know from > driving around the area I see chickens roaming freely around the > farms. I just wanted some other input on this. > I would love to go vegan but I just do not see it as an option. Soy > milk is not my thing nor is soy yogurt. > So i am trying to find a non abusive way to eat eggs and dairy from my > local amish familys. > Thanks in advance for any input! > Michelle > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Yes, yes yes! I cannot recommend ener-g egg replacer enough. I've never had anything not turn out when using it. As for soy milk, yogurt, etc.- this may take a bit of experimenting. There's rice milk, almond milk, and probably many many other varieties I'm not even aware of. --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Vibeke Vale <vibekevale wrote: Vibeke Vale <vibekevale Re: Egg questions Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 6:29 AM Wow you are very lucky to have this. Chickens raised and slaughtered humanely is better than " free range " chickens that live in terrible conditions. However when their egg laying days are over, they are still slaughtered for meat. I'm in the same boat as you, having a hard time giving up eggs. My kids eat them almost daily, I only use them in baking. On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 7:17 PM, MECHELLE <myshadyboyz@ msn.com> wrote: > Hi my son and I are fairly new vegetarians (about 3 months now). > Anyway I have read a lot on eggs and how they are factory farmed. It > is horrible. So here is my thought, for the last 3 weeks i have been > buying eggs from a local amish farmer. Since this is not a factory > farm the chickens should not be treated badly. right? I know from > driving around the area I see chickens roaming freely around the > farms. I just wanted some other input on this. > I would love to go vegan but I just do not see it as an option. Soy > milk is not my thing nor is soy yogurt. > So i am trying to find a non abusive way to eat eggs and dairy from my > local amish familys. > Thanks in advance for any input! > Michelle > > > -- Regards, Vibeke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 I have recently discovered that Silk makes a yogurt that is coconut based (no soy or milk) and is realllllllly yummy. :-) dee On Feb 18, 2009, at 8:16 AM, jenni claire garverick wrote: > Yes, yes yes! I cannot recommend ener-g egg replacer enough. I've > never had anything not turn out when using it. As for soy milk, > yogurt, etc.- this may take a bit of experimenting. There's rice > milk, almond milk, and probably many many other varieties I'm not > even aware of. > > --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Vibeke Vale <vibekevale wrote: > > Vibeke Vale <vibekevale > Re: Egg questions > > Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 6:29 AM > > Wow you are very lucky to have this. Chickens raised and slaughtered > humanely is better than " free range " chickens that live in terrible > conditions. However when their egg laying days are over, they are > still > slaughtered for meat. I'm in the same boat as you, having a hard time > giving up eggs. My kids eat them almost daily, I only use them in > baking. > > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 7:17 PM, MECHELLE <myshadyboyz@ msn.com> > wrote: > > > Hi my son and I are fairly new vegetarians (about 3 months now). > > Anyway I have read a lot on eggs and how they are factory farmed. It > > is horrible. So here is my thought, for the last 3 weeks i have been > > buying eggs from a local amish farmer. Since this is not a factory > > farm the chickens should not be treated badly. right? I know from > > driving around the area I see chickens roaming freely around the > > farms. I just wanted some other input on this. > > I would love to go vegan but I just do not see it as an option. Soy > > milk is not my thing nor is soy yogurt. > > So i am trying to find a non abusive way to eat eggs and dairy > from my > > local amish familys. > > Thanks in advance for any input! > > Michelle > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > > Vibeke > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 I had the same dilema. I wanted to find chickens that were free and healthy. I bought from egglands best for a while. But I still did not know if they were fertile eggs or not. I did not want to eat anything that could have possibly been a life. I finally got 6 of my own hens (no roosters) and I am now getting about 4 eggs a day. I know what they are eating and I know that the eggs are not fertilized. My chickens are healthy and happy and it is really cute to watch how sweet they are with my kids and how well they get along with my cats. lol. Good luck in your search Tanya P.S. Silk is the best soymilk that I have found. --- On Tue, 2/17/09, MECHELLE <myshadyboyz wrote: MECHELLE <myshadyboyz Egg questions Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 4:17 PM Hi my son and I are fairly new vegetarians (about 3 months now). Anyway I have read a lot on eggs and how they are factory farmed. It is horrible. So here is my thought, for the last 3 weeks i have been buying eggs from a local amish farmer. Since this is not a factory farm the chickens should not be treated badly. right? I know from driving around the area I see chickens roaming freely around the farms. I just wanted some other input on this. I would love to go vegan but I just do not see it as an option. Soy milk is not my thing nor is soy yogurt. So i am trying to find a non abusive way to eat eggs and dairy from my local amish familys. Thanks in advance for any input! Michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 I have to second this. My husband and I use to say, maybe when the kids grow up we'll try going vegan -- it would be just too hard now (we had already been vegetarian for years). Then I learned more about the animal issues and felt that we just had to do it right away. We decided to try to phase into it over a year or so -- at that point we were going through about 10 litres of milk, two dozen eggs and a jumbo block of cheese EVERY WEEK! I thought cheese would be the hardest thing for me to give up. So, we decided to start working on it -- and within two weeks we were vegan. That last block of cheese went moldy in our fridge and I have been absolutely amazed at how little I miss it. We bake a lot and I also use EnerG egg replacer, or ground flax mixed with water, and it works well. For me the secret was a couple of great vegan cookbooks. There was so much good food to try that we quickly found new favourites, and it's impossible to run out of ideas when you have so many sitting right there. We have three little boys, ages 7, 5 and 2. The youngest has been vegan from birth. Heather On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 9:43 AM, Jillene Wenzel <jillben2008wrote: > I felt the same way you do for a loooong time - that going that extra > step to vegan just wasn't going to happen. It would be too hard and I loved > cheese, mayo and baked goods. Honestly, when I finally did it I was amazed, > truly amazed, at how not difficult it was. Maybe the timing was just right. > But I have never had my baked goods not turn out - EnerG egg replacer is > awesome and there are so many substitutes besides soy milk.... Anyway, > don't rule it out. That's no different than meateaters blocking out > vegetarianism thinking that it's too difficult. Good luck! > > --- On Wed, 2/18/09, robin koloms <rkoloms <rkoloms%40>> > wrote: > > robin koloms <rkoloms <rkoloms%40>> > Re: Egg questions > <%40> > Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 2:31 PM > > > Hi Michelle, > > We buy free range eggs; organic ones when I have a coupon. > > Robin > > --- On Tue, 2/17/09, MECHELLE <myshadyboyz@ msn.com> wrote: > > MECHELLE <myshadyboyz@ msn.com> > Egg questions > @gro ups.com > Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 6:17 PM > > Hi my son and I are fairly new vegetarians (about 3 months now). > Anyway I have read a lot on eggs and how they are factory farmed. It > is horrible. So here is my thought, for the last 3 weeks i have been > buying eggs from a local amish farmer. Since this is not a factory > farm the chickens should not be treated badly. right? I know from > driving around the area I see chickens roaming freely around the > farms. I just wanted some other input on this. > I would love to go vegan but I just do not see it as an option. Soy > milk is not my thing nor is soy yogurt. > So i am trying to find a non abusive way to eat eggs and dairy from my > local amish familys. > Thanks in advance for any input! > Michelle > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 I know that some of the Silk soymilks have dairy ingredients; they are classified as kosher/dairy, usually with an OUd. Robin --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Dianna Lu <diannalu wrote: Dianna Lu <diannalu Re: Egg questions Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 12:40 PM I have recently discovered that Silk makes a yogurt that is coconut based (no soy or milk) and is realllllllly yummy. :-) dee On Feb 18, 2009, at 8:16 AM, jenni claire garverick wrote: > Yes, yes yes! I cannot recommend ener-g egg replacer enough. I've > never had anything not turn out when using it. As for soy milk, > yogurt, etc.- this may take a bit of experimenting. There's rice > milk, almond milk, and probably many many other varieties I'm not > even aware of. > > --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Vibeke Vale <vibekevale (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: > > Vibeke Vale <vibekevale (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > Re: Egg questions > @gro ups.com > Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 6:29 AM > > Wow you are very lucky to have this. Chickens raised and slaughtered > humanely is better than " free range " chickens that live in terrible > conditions. However when their egg laying days are over, they are > still > slaughtered for meat. I'm in the same boat as you, having a hard time > giving up eggs. My kids eat them almost daily, I only use them in > baking. > > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 7:17 PM, MECHELLE <myshadyboyz@ msn.com> > wrote: > > > Hi my son and I are fairly new vegetarians (about 3 months now). > > Anyway I have read a lot on eggs and how they are factory farmed. It > > is horrible. So here is my thought, for the last 3 weeks i have been > > buying eggs from a local amish farmer. Since this is not a factory > > farm the chickens should not be treated badly. right? I know from > > driving around the area I see chickens roaming freely around the > > farms. I just wanted some other input on this. > > I would love to go vegan but I just do not see it as an option. Soy > > milk is not my thing nor is soy yogurt. > > So i am trying to find a non abusive way to eat eggs and dairy > from my > > local amish familys. > > Thanks in advance for any input! > > Michelle > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > > Vibeke > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Please see the attached link, which explains this: http://www.silksoymilk.com/faq.aspx#AL-1 While Silk products are dairy free and contain no animal ingredients, they are produced in a building, which is in a city, which is in a country, which is in a world, which contains dairy ingredients. I'm thinking boycott. Who's with me? Mark - robin koloms Wednesday, February 18, 2009 4:38 PM Re: Egg questions I know that some of the Silk soymilks have dairy ingredients; they are classified as kosher/dairy, usually with an OUd. Robin --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Dianna Lu <diannalu wrote: Dianna Lu <diannalu Re: Egg questions Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 12:40 PM I have recently discovered that Silk makes a yogurt that is coconut based (no soy or milk) and is realllllllly yummy. :-) dee On Feb 18, 2009, at 8:16 AM, jenni claire garverick wrote: > Yes, yes yes! I cannot recommend ener-g egg replacer enough. I've > never had anything not turn out when using it. As for soy milk, > yogurt, etc.- this may take a bit of experimenting. There's rice > milk, almond milk, and probably many many other varieties I'm not > even aware of. > > --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Vibeke Vale <vibekevale (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: > > Vibeke Vale <vibekevale (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > Re: Egg questions > @gro ups.com > Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 6:29 AM > > Wow you are very lucky to have this. Chickens raised and slaughtered > humanely is better than " free range " chickens that live in terrible > conditions. However when their egg laying days are over, they are > still > slaughtered for meat. I'm in the same boat as you, having a hard time > giving up eggs. My kids eat them almost daily, I only use them in > baking. > > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 7:17 PM, MECHELLE <myshadyboyz@ msn.com> > wrote: > > > Hi my son and I are fairly new vegetarians (about 3 months now). > > Anyway I have read a lot on eggs and how they are factory farmed. It > > is horrible. So here is my thought, for the last 3 weeks i have been > > buying eggs from a local amish farmer. Since this is not a factory > > farm the chickens should not be treated badly. right? I know from > > driving around the area I see chickens roaming freely around the > > farms. I just wanted some other input on this. > > I would love to go vegan but I just do not see it as an option. Soy > > milk is not my thing nor is soy yogurt. > > So i am trying to find a non abusive way to eat eggs and dairy > from my > > local amish familys. > > Thanks in advance for any input! > > Michelle > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > > Vibeke > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 They are vegan according to their website: http://www.silksoymilk.com/FAQ.aspx#AL-3 Linda A Marketplace for a Better World (Cruelty-free, Environmentally-Conscious, and Fair Labor Products) http://triballife.net/ http://triballifeinc.blogspot.com/ My personal blogs: http://veganlinda.blogspot.com/ http://cucarfree.blogspot.com/ ________________________________ robin koloms <rkoloms Wednesday, February 18, 2009 3:38:04 PM Re: Egg questions I know that some of the Silk soymilks have dairy ingredients; they are classified as kosher/dairy, usually with an OUd. Robin --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Dianna Lu <diannalu (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote: Dianna Lu <diannalu (AT) comcast (DOT) net> Re: Egg questions @gro ups.com Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 12:40 PM I have recently discovered that Silk makes a yogurt that is coconut based (no soy or milk) and is realllllllly yummy. :-) dee On Feb 18, 2009, at 8:16 AM, jenni claire garverick wrote: > Yes, yes yes! I cannot recommend ener-g egg replacer enough. I've > never had anything not turn out when using it. As for soy milk, > yogurt, etc.- this may take a bit of experimenting. There's rice > milk, almond milk, and probably many many other varieties I'm not > even aware of. > > --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Vibeke Vale <vibekevale@ gmail. com> wrote: > > Vibeke Vale <vibekevale@ gmail. com> > Re: Egg questions > @gro ups.com > Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 6:29 AM > > Wow you are very lucky to have this. Chickens raised and slaughtered > humanely is better than " free range " chickens that live in terrible > conditions. However when their egg laying days are over, they are > still > slaughtered for meat. I'm in the same boat as you, having a hard time > giving up eggs. My kids eat them almost daily, I only use them in > baking. > > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 7:17 PM, MECHELLE <myshadyboyz@ msn.com> > wrote: > > > Hi my son and I are fairly new vegetarians (about 3 months now). > > Anyway I have read a lot on eggs and how they are factory farmed. It > > is horrible. So here is my thought, for the last 3 weeks i have been > > buying eggs from a local amish farmer. Since this is not a factory > > farm the chickens should not be treated badly. right? I know from > > driving around the area I see chickens roaming freely around the > > farms. I just wanted some other input on this. > > I would love to go vegan but I just do not see it as an option. Soy > > milk is not my thing nor is soy yogurt. > > So i am trying to find a non abusive way to eat eggs and dairy > from my > > local amish familys. > > Thanks in advance for any input! > > Michelle > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > > Vibeke > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Hello, Does anyone know if ener-g egg replacer is available in Canada? I would love to try some but have never been able to find it (I actually have no idea what it even looks like). I use Kingsmill egg substitute (I think that's the name) for baking (it is a mix of cornstarch, baking powder and baking soda) but would love to try other products. Thanks, Paula , jenni claire garverick <jennigarverick wrote: > > Yes, yes yes! I cannot recommend ener-g egg replacer enough. I've never had anything not turn out when using it. As for soy milk, yogurt, etc.- this may take a bit of experimenting. There's rice milk, almond milk, and probably many many other varieties I'm not even aware of. > > --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Vibeke Vale <vibekevale wrote: > > Vibeke Vale <vibekevale > Re: Egg questions > > Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 6:29 AM Wow you are very lucky to have this. Chickens raised and slaughtered > humanely is better than " free range " chickens that live in terrible > conditions. However when their egg laying days are over, they are still > slaughtered for meat. I'm in the same boat as you, having a hard time > giving up eggs. My kids eat them almost daily, I only use them in baking. > > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 7:17 PM, MECHELLE <myshadyboyz@ msn.com> wrote: > > > Hi my son and I are fairly new vegetarians (about 3 months now). > > Anyway I have read a lot on eggs and how they are factory farmed. It > > is horrible. So here is my thought, for the last 3 weeks i have been > > buying eggs from a local amish farmer. Since this is not a factory > > farm the chickens should not be treated badly. right? I know from > > driving around the area I see chickens roaming freely around the > > farms. I just wanted some other input on this. > > I would love to go vegan but I just do not see it as an option. Soy > > milk is not my thing nor is soy yogurt. > > So i am trying to find a non abusive way to eat eggs and dairy from my > > local amish familys. > > Thanks in advance for any input! > > Michelle > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > > Vibeke > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 To keep myself from eating eggs...I just think about the inside of the egg being like a fetus. I do not want to eat a chicken fetus. That just sounds gross. (I know some people talk about fertilized/non- fertilized but it's still the same gross concept to me.) , " MECHELLE " <myshadyboyz wrote: > > Hi my son and I are fairly new vegetarians (about 3 months now). > Anyway I have read a lot on eggs and how they are factory farmed. It > is horrible. So here is my thought, for the last 3 weeks i have been > buying eggs from a local amish farmer. Since this is not a factory > farm the chickens should not be treated badly. right? I know from > driving around the area I see chickens roaming freely around the > farms. I just wanted some other input on this. > I would love to go vegan but I just do not see it as an option. Soy > milk is not my thing nor is soy yogurt. > So i am trying to find a non abusive way to eat eggs and dairy from my > local amish familys. > Thanks in advance for any input! > Michelle > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 From kashrut.com: All Silk brand products in all flavors are certified Kosher OU-D. Kosher OU-D certifies that a dairy-free product was heated on equipment also used for dairy --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Linda Evans <veganlinda wrote: Linda Evans <veganlinda Re: Egg questions Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 6:29 PM They are vegan according to their website: http://www.silksoym ilk.com/FAQ. aspx#AL-3 Linda A Marketplace for a Better World (Cruelty-free, Environmentally- Conscious, and Fair Labor Products) http://triballife. net/ http://triballifein c.blogspot. com/ My personal blogs: http://veganlinda. blogspot. com/ http://cucarfree. blogspot. com/ ____________ _________ _________ __ robin koloms <rkoloms > @gro ups.com Wednesday, February 18, 2009 3:38:04 PM Re: Egg questions I know that some of the Silk soymilks have dairy ingredients; they are classified as kosher/dairy, usually with an OUd. Robin --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Dianna Lu <diannalu (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote: Dianna Lu <diannalu (AT) comcast (DOT) net> Re: Egg questions @gro ups.com Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 12:40 PM I have recently discovered that Silk makes a yogurt that is coconut based (no soy or milk) and is realllllllly yummy. :-) dee On Feb 18, 2009, at 8:16 AM, jenni claire garverick wrote: > Yes, yes yes! I cannot recommend ener-g egg replacer enough. I've > never had anything not turn out when using it. As for soy milk, > yogurt, etc.- this may take a bit of experimenting. There's rice > milk, almond milk, and probably many many other varieties I'm not > even aware of. > > --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Vibeke Vale <vibekevale@ gmail. com> wrote: > > Vibeke Vale <vibekevale@ gmail. com> > Re: Egg questions > @gro ups.com > Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 6:29 AM > > Wow you are very lucky to have this. Chickens raised and slaughtered > humanely is better than " free range " chickens that live in terrible > conditions. However when their egg laying days are over, they are > still > slaughtered for meat. I'm in the same boat as you, having a hard time > giving up eggs. My kids eat them almost daily, I only use them in > baking. > > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 7:17 PM, MECHELLE <myshadyboyz@ msn.com> > wrote: > > > Hi my son and I are fairly new vegetarians (about 3 months now). > > Anyway I have read a lot on eggs and how they are factory farmed. It > > is horrible. So here is my thought, for the last 3 weeks i have been > > buying eggs from a local amish farmer. Since this is not a factory > > farm the chickens should not be treated badly. right? I know from > > driving around the area I see chickens roaming freely around the > > farms. I just wanted some other input on this. > > I would love to go vegan but I just do not see it as an option. Soy > > milk is not my thing nor is soy yogurt. > > So i am trying to find a non abusive way to eat eggs and dairy > from my > > local amish familys. > > Thanks in advance for any input! > > Michelle > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > > Vibeke > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 I guess I already do boycott them, because my son who has the milk protein allergy can not have any silk products because he ends up having a reaction every single time we have tried it in the past, so we've been avoiding them for about a year. So even though the stuff itself is vegan, I am usually dubious of anything that is processed on the same equipment since we have had this happen with more than one product. Some stuff is ok, but it's like playing Russian Roulette sometimes... Missie On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Mark Young <markvictoryoung wrote: > Please see the attached link, which explains this: > > http://www.silksoymilk.com/faq.aspx#AL-1 > > While Silk products are dairy free and contain no animal ingredients, they > are produced in a building, which is in a city, which is in a country, which > is in a world, which contains dairy ingredients. I'm thinking boycott. Who's > with me? > > Mark > > - > robin koloms > > Wednesday, February 18, 2009 4:38 PM > Re: Egg questions > > I know that some of the Silk soymilks have dairy ingredients; they are > classified as kosher/dairy, usually with an OUd. > > Robin > > --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Dianna Lu <diannalu wrote: > > Dianna Lu <diannalu > Re: Egg questions > > Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 12:40 PM > > I have recently discovered that Silk makes a yogurt that is coconut > based (no soy or milk) and is realllllllly yummy. > > :-) > > dee > On Feb 18, 2009, at 8:16 AM, jenni claire garverick wrote: > >> Yes, yes yes! I cannot recommend ener-g egg replacer enough. I've >> never had anything not turn out when using it. As for soy milk, >> yogurt, etc.- this may take a bit of experimenting. There's rice >> milk, almond milk, and probably many many other varieties I'm not >> even aware of. >> >> --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Vibeke Vale <vibekevale (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: >> >> Vibeke Vale <vibekevale (AT) gmail (DOT) com> >> Re: Egg questions >> @gro ups.com >> Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 6:29 AM >> >> Wow you are very lucky to have this. Chickens raised and slaughtered >> humanely is better than " free range " chickens that live in terrible >> conditions. However when their egg laying days are over, they are >> still >> slaughtered for meat. I'm in the same boat as you, having a hard time >> giving up eggs. My kids eat them almost daily, I only use them in >> baking. >> >> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 7:17 PM, MECHELLE <myshadyboyz@ msn.com> >> wrote: >> >> > Hi my son and I are fairly new vegetarians (about 3 months now). >> > Anyway I have read a lot on eggs and how they are factory farmed. It >> > is horrible. So here is my thought, for the last 3 weeks i have been >> > buying eggs from a local amish farmer. Since this is not a factory >> > farm the chickens should not be treated badly. right? I know from >> > driving around the area I see chickens roaming freely around the >> > farms. I just wanted some other input on this. >> > I would love to go vegan but I just do not see it as an option. Soy >> > milk is not my thing nor is soy yogurt. >> > So i am trying to find a non abusive way to eat eggs and dairy >> from my >> > local amish familys. >> > Thanks in advance for any input! >> > Michelle >> > >> > >> > >> >> -- >> Regards, >> >> Vibeke >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Unfortunately, free range is no guarantee of good treatment. Also, eggs are not a particularly healthy food. They are certainly unnecessary for baking delicious cakes, cookies, pancakes and other treats. I find eggless baking more convenient. And believe me, no one notices the difference! For information on this topic and much more on veganism and vegetarianism, I highly recommend the " Food for Thought " podcast by Colleen Patrick Goudreau. Go to: www.compassionatecooks.com/podcast.htm. It's also available on iTunes. Check out these specific podcasts:: " Aren't free-range eggs better than eggs from battery-cage hens? " What's wrong with eating eggs since the chickens aren't killed to get her eggs? " " A visit to two 'free-range' egg facilities " " Replacing eggs in cooking and baking " Also, Colleen has published an excellent book, The Joy of Vegan Baking, which covers the gamut. Good luck! MC ¡Sé el Bello 51 de People en Español! ¡Es tu oportunidad de Brillar! Sube tus fotos ya. http://www.51bello.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Hi- I got on the ener-g website (Sorry, I didn't keep track of what it was, but googled it). They have a nifty little search engine to find stores that sell it in your area. I DID see Quebec, Northwest Territories, etc. listed- so hopefully your particular area is on there, too. I don't have a box on hand, but it's orange and yellow. The company also makes flax and rice products. Egg replacer can usually be found in the baking section of the store. It's made from lecithin (potato? if I remember correctly) and a few other ingredients. --- On Thu, 2/19/09, peej2e2 <johnsontew wrote: peej2e2 <johnsontew Re: Egg questions Thursday, February 19, 2009, 5:24 AM Hello, Does anyone know if ener-g egg replacer is available in Canada? I would love to try some but have never been able to find it (I actually have no idea what it even looks like). I use Kingsmill egg substitute (I think that's the name) for baking (it is a mix of cornstarch, baking powder and baking soda) but would love to try other products. Thanks, Paula @gro ups.com, jenni claire garverick <jennigarverick@ ...> wrote: > > Yes, yes yes! I cannot recommend ener-g egg replacer enough. I've never had anything not turn out when using it. As for soy milk, yogurt, etc.- this may take a bit of experimenting. There's rice milk, almond milk, and probably many many other varieties I'm not even aware of. > > --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Vibeke Vale <vibekevale@ ...> wrote: > > Vibeke Vale <vibekevale@ ...> > Re: Egg questions > @gro ups.com > Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 6:29 AM Wow you are very lucky to have this. Chickens raised and slaughtered > humanely is better than " free range " chickens that live in terrible > conditions. However when their egg laying days are over, they are still > slaughtered for meat. I'm in the same boat as you, having a hard time > giving up eggs. My kids eat them almost daily, I only use them in baking. > > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 7:17 PM, MECHELLE <myshadyboyz@ msn.com> wrote: > > > Hi my son and I are fairly new vegetarians (about 3 months now). > > Anyway I have read a lot on eggs and how they are factory farmed. It > > is horrible. So here is my thought, for the last 3 weeks i have been > > buying eggs from a local amish farmer. Since this is not a factory > > farm the chickens should not be treated badly. right? I know from > > driving around the area I see chickens roaming freely around the > > farms. I just wanted some other input on this. > > I would love to go vegan but I just do not see it as an option. Soy > > milk is not my thing nor is soy yogurt. > > So i am trying to find a non abusive way to eat eggs and dairy from my > > local amish familys. > > Thanks in advance for any input! > > Michelle > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > > Vibeke > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 If the eggs are fertilized, remember that for every hen born, a rooster is thrown into the trash to suffocate or into a grinder to spend its first (and only) day in this world getting sliced to death. An in-law once asked me what was wrong in eating free-range eggs, preferably unfertilized. Below is my response. 1. The exploitation of nonhuman animals for our sake is morally wrong. Jeremy Bentham said it well when he stated " The question is not `Can they reason?' nor, `Can they talk?' but, `Can they suffer?' " Tom Regan took this a step further. The question is not only can animals suffer, but are they the subjects-of-a-life? All animals have a past, a story, a biography. They have histories. Mink and bears, elephants and dolphins, pigs and chickens, cats and dogs: each is a unique somebody, not a disposable something. From Tom Regan, But what is wrong isn't the pain, isn't the suffering, isn't the deprivation. These compound what's wrong. Sometimes — often — they make it much, much worse. But they are not the fundamental wrong. The fundamental wrong is the system that allows us to view animals as our resources, here for us — to be eaten, or surgically manipulated, or exploited for sport or money. Once we accept this view of animals — as our resources — the rest is as predictable as it is regrettable. Why worry about their loneliness, their pain, their death? Since animals exist for us, to benefit us in one way or another, what harms them really doesn't matter — or matters only if it starts to bother us, makes us feel a trifle uneasy when we eat our veal escallop, for example. 2. The egg business is a shamefully cruel business. When humans fail to recognize chickens as a subjects-of-a-life, then they treat them as lifeless inputs in a production process. With precious little legal protection for the animals, the goal of that business, as in any for-profit business, is profit maximization. Thus, any costs that can be eliminated without affecting production will be eliminated. One such cost is that of keeping male chickens alive. In the poultry business, day-old male chicks are killed (usually in a high-speed grinder) because they are worthless to the egg industry. Although chickens can live into their teens, hens raised for eggs soon become exhausted, and their egg production begins to wane when they are about two years old. When this happens, they are slaughtered for food or simply buried alive. Chicken farmers are also notorious for starving hens in a practice known as forced-molting. In nature, birds molt, or replace all their feathers in the course of a year to maintain their plumage. A natural molt often happens at the onset of winter, when nature discourages the hatching of chicks. Hens stop laying eggs and concentrate their energies on staying warm and growing new feathers. The egg industry exploits this natural process by forcing an entire flock to molt simultaneously. This is done to pump more eggs out of exhausted hens when it cheaper to " recycle " them rather than immediately slaughter them after a year of relentless egg- laying on a calcium-deficient diet. To trigger the physiological shock of the forced molt, a University of California poultry researcher (Donald Bell) recommends the removal of all food for no less than five days and as long as fourteen days. Survivors may be force-molted two or three times, based on economics. At any given time, more than six million hens in the U.S. are being systematically starved in their cages, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Surprisingly, there are no regulations whatsoever for " free-range " eggs. In reality, hens may be stuffed into a barn and never get near a door, or the weather may be too cold for a door to ever be opened. Most free-range hens still do not have enough room to stretch their wings, they are often de-beaked, and they are still painfully slaughtered. So free-range animals are not free, and their treatment is " humane " only in the eyes of the industry, which chooses to define that word however they wish. But I can assure you that you and I would not define the word as they do. As Tom Regan, noted animal rights author, claims, " ...(what their) spokespersons say about their treatment of animals (these industries treat animals " humanely " ) is not sometimes false. It is always false. The book (Empty Cages) helps readers understand why these spokespersons should never be trusted. " And the effects of this mistreatment are suffered by the 283 million egg-laying hens in the US, which laid approximately 76.3 billion table eggs in 2004. These 283 million egg-laying hens are confined and abused, leading to 2.5 trillion (= 283 million x 365 days x 24 hours / day) hours of chicken prison per year in the US alone. 3. Eggs are unhealthy for humans. In a purely natural state, eggs are loaded with saturated fat and cholesterol, and may increase your risk of heart attacks, diabetes, and other diseases. The only two researchers in human history who have successfully reversed heart disease, by far America's biggest killer, have included an exclusively vegetarian diet as a part of their programs. On the Dr. Dean Ornish and Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn programs, patients become " heart attack proof " (to quote Dr. Esselstyn, in the August 1999 issue of the American Journal of Cardiology) by getting their cholesterol levels to below 150 (the average vegan cholesterol level is 128), the level below which no one has ever been documented as having died from a heart attack. But the problems extend beyond the natural make-up of eggs. " Industrialized " chickens are fed antibiotics and other drugs. Forced molting is so stressful that it increases bone breakage and impairs the hens' immune system, predisposing the birds and their eggs to Salmonella infection. USDA immunologist Peter Holt reports that while unmolted hens usually have to ingest 50,000 Salmonella cells to become infected, molted hens need fewer than 10. Once infected, these hens are more likely to lay contaminated eggs. Industrialized chickens are prone to bacterial infections and exposed to pesticides. The practice of recycling manure, dead chickens, feathers, and condemned animal parts back into animals' feed is also believed to spread diseases. The loss of genetic diversity, driven by the large number of chickens coming from a small number of breeders, may lead to a biological disaster if pathogens spread through the chicken industry. The culprits behind the Avian flu are not wild birds, but the broiler breeder chicken farmers who place the animals in high density barns, allowing viruses to mutate and spread rapidly. 4. Chicken farms are large sources of pollution. The massive buildup of animals creates large amounts of concentrated waste that usually goes right into rivers and streams, and threatens to hurt eco-systems and human communities. I was surprised to learn that raising animals for food requires more than half the water used in the United States, and that some claim that animal farms are the biggest source of pollution of our water and topsoil. Presently, there are 64 egg producing companies with 1 million plus layers and 11 companies with greater than 5 million layers. There are approximately 260 egg producing companies with flocks of 75,000 hens or more. These 260 companies represent about 95% of all the layers in the U.S. Seventeen years ago (1987), there were around 2,500 operations. In general, these companies that hold a larger market share have turned to conserving capital through exploiting returns to scale and compromising the health and quality of life of the chickens, or factors of production. In other words, build bigger chicken farms and put each chicken in less space. In the major egg producing states, flocks of 100,000 laying hens are not unusual and some flocks number more than 1 million. According to the National Resources Defense Council, " The shallow groundwater table on the Eastern Shore [of the Chesapeake Bay] makes the area extremely vulnerable to nitrogen pollution. Consequently, in areas where feedlots are concentrated, drinking water can be contaminated with nitrates, which have been linked to a potentially fatal inability to carry oxygen in blood in infants and miscarriages among women. " In addition to the immense diversion of clean water and the creation of a vast amount of water pollution, chicken farms produce large amounts of ammonia gases that fertilize the algae in estuaries, leading to an overabundance that will eventually fall to the bottom and decompose in sediments. There, they fuel the growth of microorganisms that suck oxygen out of the lower layers of water, creating " dead zones " that are void of fish, shellfish and other aquatic life for part of each year. 5. The use of grain to feed livestock is dreadfully inefficient. According to Dr. M.E. Ensminger, Ph.D., an internationally recognized animal agriculture specialist, " About 2,000 pounds of concentrates [grains] must be supplied to livestock in order to produce enough meat and other livestock products to support a person for a year, whereas 400 pounds of grain (corn, wheat, rice, soybeans, etc.) eaten directly will support a person for a year. Thus, a given quantity of grain eaten directly will feed five times as many people as it will if it is first fed to livestock and then is eaten indirectly by humans in the form of livestock products. " While this comment applies to all livestock, of which free-range chickens are only a small subset, I would argue that it is disingenuous to comment on the plight of the starving children of the world while ignoring the realities of a food chain that robs the poor of sustenance in order to feed the rich a steady diet of animal products of any kind. 6. Humans do not need eggs to survive. Little of this would matter if humans needed eggs to survive. We would nod our heads to all of the above, then continue to eat eggs, since our survival instincts are so dominant. But humans can and do live even better on a vegan diet than on a diet based on animal products. 7. Egg substitutes are widely available. Even those nodding their heads to #6, above, may not have the willpower to break away from centuries of tradition and decades of personal consumption. Or they may choose to simply " look the other way " . But egg substitutes are so widely available and their properties so similar to that of eggs that differences in taste or texture are minimal for most recipes that call for eggs. , Mary Chris Jaklevic <mcjrunner wrote: > > Unfortunately, free range is no guarantee of good treatment. Also, eggs are not a particularly healthy food. They are certainly unnecessary for baking delicious cakes, cookies, pancakes and other treats. I find eggless baking more convenient. And believe me, no one notices the difference! > > For information on this topic and much more on veganism and vegetarianism, I highly recommend the " Food for Thought " podcast by Colleen Patrick Goudreau. Go to: www.compassionatecooks.com/podcast.htm. It's also available on iTunes. > > Check out these specific podcasts:: > > " Aren't free-range eggs better than eggs from battery-cage hens? > " What's wrong with eating eggs since the chickens aren't killed to get her eggs? " > " A visit to two 'free-range' egg facilities " > " Replacing eggs in cooking and baking " > > Also, Colleen has published an excellent book, The Joy of Vegan Baking, which covers the gamut. > > Good luck! > MC > > > ¡Sé el Bello 51 de People en Español! ¡Es tu oportunidad de Brillar! Sube tus fotos ya. http://www.51bello.com/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Thanks, that was very sobering. I've just resolved to try out those egg replacers after all, been drifting back to using eggs (pretty rarely but still) ever since my pregnancy 4 years ago. Boy is that a time when the pressure comes on from family. Seemed like an easy way to placate them as eggs didn't seem that harmful but I can see that they are. I'm kind of annoyed to learn this actually since it's easier not to know, not to think about it. :-) Dee On Feb 19, 2009, at 12:22 PM, ny.vegan wrote: > If the eggs are fertilized, remember that for every hen born, a > rooster is thrown into the trash to suffocate or into a grinder to > spend its first (and only) day in this world getting sliced to death. > > An in-law once asked me what was wrong in eating free-range eggs, > preferably unfertilized. Below is my response. > > 1. The exploitation of nonhuman animals for our sake is morally wrong. > Jeremy Bentham said it well when he stated " The question is not `Can > they reason?' nor, `Can they talk?' but, `Can they suffer?' " Tom > Regan took this a step further. The question is not only can animals > suffer, but are they the subjects-of-a-life? All animals have a past, > a story, a biography. They have histories. Mink and bears, elephants > and dolphins, pigs and chickens, cats and dogs: each is a unique > somebody, not a disposable something. > > From Tom Regan, > > But what is wrong isn't the pain, isn't the suffering, isn't the > deprivation. These compound what's wrong. Sometimes — often — they > make it much, much worse. But they are not the fundamental wrong. > > The fundamental wrong is the system that allows us to view animals as > our resources, here for us — to be eaten, or surgically manipulated, > or exploited for sport or money. Once we accept this view of animals — > as our resources — the rest is as predictable as it is regrettable. > Why worry about their loneliness, their pain, their death? Since > animals exist for us, to benefit us in one way or another, what harms > them really doesn't matter — or matters only if it starts to bother > us, makes us feel a trifle uneasy when we eat our veal escallop, for > example. > > 2. The egg business is a shamefully cruel business. When humans fail > to recognize chickens as a subjects-of-a-life, then they treat them as > lifeless inputs in a production process. With precious little legal > protection for the animals, the goal of that business, as in any > for-profit business, is profit maximization. Thus, any costs that can > be eliminated without affecting production will be eliminated. One > such cost is that of keeping male chickens alive. In the poultry > business, day-old male chicks are killed (usually in a high-speed > grinder) because they are worthless to the egg industry. Although > chickens can live into their teens, hens raised for eggs soon become > exhausted, and their egg production begins to wane when they are about > two years old. When this happens, they are slaughtered for food or > simply buried alive. > > Chicken farmers are also notorious for starving hens in a practice > known as forced-molting. In nature, birds molt, or replace all their > feathers in the course of a year to maintain their plumage. A natural > molt often happens at the onset of winter, when nature discourages the > hatching of chicks. Hens stop laying eggs and concentrate their > energies on staying warm and growing new feathers. The egg industry > exploits this natural process by forcing an entire flock to molt > simultaneously. This is done to pump more eggs out of exhausted hens > when it cheaper to " recycle " them rather than immediately slaughter > them after a year of relentless egg- laying on a calcium-deficient > diet. > > To trigger the physiological shock of the forced molt, a University of > California poultry researcher (Donald Bell) recommends the removal of > all food for no less than five days and as long as fourteen days. > Survivors may be force-molted two or three times, based on economics. > At any given time, more than six million hens in the U.S. are being > systematically starved in their cages, according to the U.S. > Department of Agriculture. > > Surprisingly, there are no regulations whatsoever for " free-range " > eggs. In reality, hens may be stuffed into a barn and never get near > a door, or the weather may be too cold for a door to ever be opened. > Most free-range hens still do not have enough room to stretch their > wings, they are often de-beaked, and they are still painfully > slaughtered. So free-range animals are not free, and their treatment > is " humane " only in the eyes of the industry, which chooses to define > that word however they wish. But I can assure you that you and I > would not define the word as they do. As Tom Regan, noted animal > rights author, claims, " ...(what their) spokespersons say about their > treatment of animals (these industries treat animals " humanely " ) is > not sometimes false. It is always false. The book (Empty Cages) helps > readers understand why these spokespersons should never be trusted. " > And the effects of this mistreatment are suffered by the 283 million > egg-laying hens in the US, which laid approximately 76.3 billion table > eggs in 2004. These 283 million egg-laying hens are confined and > abused, leading to 2.5 trillion (= 283 million x 365 days x 24 hours / > day) hours of chicken prison per year in the US alone. > > 3. Eggs are unhealthy for humans. In a purely natural state, eggs > are loaded with saturated fat and cholesterol, and may increase your > risk of heart attacks, diabetes, and other diseases. The only two > researchers in human history who have successfully reversed heart > disease, by far America's biggest killer, have included an exclusively > vegetarian diet as a part of their programs. On the Dr. Dean Ornish > and Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn programs, patients become " heart attack > proof " (to quote Dr. Esselstyn, in the August 1999 issue of the > American Journal of Cardiology) by getting their cholesterol levels to > below 150 (the average vegan cholesterol level is 128), the level > below which no one has ever been documented as having died from a > heart attack. But the problems extend beyond the natural make-up of > eggs. " Industrialized " chickens are fed antibiotics and other drugs. > Forced molting is so stressful that it increases bone breakage and > impairs the hens' immune system, predisposing the birds and their eggs > to Salmonella infection. USDA immunologist Peter Holt reports that > while unmolted hens usually have to ingest 50,000 Salmonella cells to > become infected, molted hens need fewer than 10. Once infected, > these hens are more likely to lay contaminated eggs. Industrialized > chickens are prone to bacterial infections and exposed to pesticides. > The practice of recycling manure, dead chickens, feathers, and > condemned animal parts back into animals' feed is also believed to > spread diseases. The loss of genetic diversity, driven by the large > number of chickens coming from a small number of breeders, may lead to > a biological disaster if pathogens spread through the chicken > industry. > > The culprits behind the Avian flu are not wild birds, but the broiler > breeder chicken farmers who place the animals in high density barns, > allowing viruses to mutate and spread rapidly. > > 4. Chicken farms are large sources of pollution. The massive buildup > of animals creates large amounts of concentrated waste that usually > goes right into rivers and streams, and threatens to hurt eco-systems > and human communities. I was surprised to learn that raising animals > for food requires more than half the water used in the United States, > and that some claim that animal farms are the biggest source of > pollution of our water and topsoil. Presently, there are 64 egg > producing companies with 1 million plus layers and 11 companies with > greater than 5 million layers. There are approximately 260 egg > producing companies with flocks of 75,000 hens or more. These 260 > companies represent about 95% of all the layers in the U.S. Seventeen > years ago (1987), there were around 2,500 operations. In general, > these companies that hold a larger market share have turned to > conserving capital through exploiting returns to scale and > compromising the health and quality of life of the chickens, or > factors of production. In other words, build bigger chicken farms and > put each chicken in less space. In the major egg producing states, > flocks of 100,000 laying hens are not unusual and some flocks number > more than 1 million. > > According to the National Resources Defense Council, > > " The shallow groundwater table on the Eastern Shore [of the Chesapeake > Bay] makes the area extremely vulnerable to nitrogen pollution. > Consequently, in areas where feedlots are concentrated, drinking water > can be contaminated with nitrates, which have been linked to a > potentially fatal inability to carry oxygen in blood in infants and > miscarriages among women. " > > In addition to the immense diversion of clean water and the creation > of a vast amount of water pollution, chicken farms produce large > amounts of ammonia gases that fertilize the algae in estuaries, > leading to an overabundance that will eventually fall to the bottom > and decompose in sediments. There, they fuel the growth of > microorganisms that suck oxygen out of the lower layers of water, > creating " dead zones " that are void of fish, shellfish and other > aquatic life for part of each year. > > 5. The use of grain to feed livestock is dreadfully inefficient. > According to Dr. M.E. Ensminger, Ph.D., an internationally recognized > animal agriculture specialist, " About 2,000 pounds of concentrates > [grains] must be supplied to livestock in order to produce enough meat > and other livestock products to support a person for a year, whereas > 400 pounds of grain (corn, wheat, rice, soybeans, etc.) eaten directly > will support a person for a year. Thus, a given quantity of grain > eaten directly will feed five times as many people as it will if it is > first fed to livestock and then is eaten indirectly by humans in the > form of livestock products. " While this comment applies to all > livestock, of which free-range chickens are only a small subset, I > would argue that it is disingenuous to comment on the plight of the > starving children of the world while ignoring the realities of a food > chain that robs the poor of sustenance in order to feed the rich a > steady diet of animal products of any kind. > > 6. Humans do not need eggs to survive. Little of this would matter > if humans needed eggs to survive. We would nod our heads to all of the > above, then continue to eat eggs, since our survival instincts are so > dominant. But humans can and do live even better on a vegan diet than > on a diet based on animal products. > > 7. Egg substitutes are widely available. Even those nodding their > heads to #6, above, may not have the willpower to break away from > centuries of tradition and decades of personal consumption. Or they > may choose to simply " look the other way " . But egg substitutes are so > widely available and their properties so similar to that of eggs that > differences in taste or texture are minimal for most recipes that call > for eggs. > > , Mary Chris Jaklevic <mcjrunner > wrote: > > > > Unfortunately, free range is no guarantee of good treatment. Also, > eggs are not a particularly healthy food. They are certainly > unnecessary for baking delicious cakes, cookies, pancakes and other > treats. I find eggless baking more convenient. And believe me, no one > notices the difference! > > > > For information on this topic and much more on veganism and > vegetarianism, I highly recommend the " Food for Thought " podcast by > Colleen Patrick Goudreau. Go to: > www.compassionatecooks.com/podcast.htm. It's also available on iTunes. > > > > Check out these specific podcasts:: > > > > " Aren't free-range eggs better than eggs from battery-cage hens? > > " What's wrong with eating eggs since the chickens aren't killed to > get her eggs? " > > " A visit to two 'free-range' egg facilities " > > " Replacing eggs in cooking and baking " > > > > Also, Colleen has published an excellent book, The Joy of Vegan > Baking, which covers the gamut. > > > > Good luck! > > MC > > > > > > ¡Sé el Bello 51 de People en Español! ¡Es tu oportunidad de > Brillar! Sube tus fotos ya. http://www.51bello.com/ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Here is my question. I know that the eggs that my family eats are from healthy happy chickens, and since I have no roosters I know that they are not fertilized because I have no roosters. They eat our fruits and vegi's along with their grains. But how can we say that processed egg replacers are more healthy than unprocessed protine packed eggs? It makes no sence to me. --- On Thu, 2/19/09, Dianna Lu <diannalu wrote: > Dianna Lu <diannalu > Re: Re: Egg questions > > Thursday, February 19, 2009, 1:39 PM > Thanks, that was very sobering. I've just resolved to > try out those > egg replacers after all, been drifting back to using eggs > (pretty > rarely but still) ever since my pregnancy 4 years ago. Boy > is that a > time when the pressure comes on from family. Seemed like an > easy way > to placate them as eggs didn't seem that harmful but I > can see that > they are. > > I'm kind of annoyed to learn this actually since > it's easier not to > know, not to think about it. > > :-) > > Dee > > On Feb 19, 2009, at 12:22 PM, ny.vegan wrote: > > > If the eggs are fertilized, remember that for every > hen born, a > > rooster is thrown into the trash to suffocate or into > a grinder to > > spend its first (and only) day in this world getting > sliced to death. > > > > An in-law once asked me what was wrong in eating > free-range eggs, > > preferably unfertilized. Below is my response. > > > > 1. The exploitation of nonhuman animals for our sake > is morally wrong. > > Jeremy Bentham said it well when he stated " The > question is not `Can > > they reason?' nor, `Can they talk?' but, `Can > they suffer?' " Tom > > Regan took this a step further. The question is not > only can animals > > suffer, but are they the subjects-of-a-life? All > animals have a past, > > a story, a biography. They have histories. Mink and > bears, elephants > > and dolphins, pigs and chickens, cats and dogs: each > is a unique > > somebody, not a disposable something. > > > > From Tom Regan, > > > > But what is wrong isn't the pain, isn't the > suffering, isn't the > > deprivation. These compound what's wrong. > Sometimes — often — they > > make it much, much worse. But they are not the > fundamental wrong. > > > > The fundamental wrong is the system that allows us to > view animals as > > our resources, here for us — to be eaten, or > surgically manipulated, > > or exploited for sport or money. Once we accept this > view of animals — > > as our resources — the rest is as predictable as it > is regrettable. > > Why worry about their loneliness, their pain, their > death? Since > > animals exist for us, to benefit us in one way or > another, what harms > > them really doesn't matter — or matters only if > it starts to bother > > us, makes us feel a trifle uneasy when we eat our veal > escallop, for > > example. > > > > 2. The egg business is a shamefully cruel business. > When humans fail > > to recognize chickens as a subjects-of-a-life, then > they treat them as > > lifeless inputs in a production process. With precious > little legal > > protection for the animals, the goal of that business, > as in any > > for-profit business, is profit maximization. Thus, any > costs that can > > be eliminated without affecting production will be > eliminated. One > > such cost is that of keeping male chickens alive. In > the poultry > > business, day-old male chicks are killed (usually in a > high-speed > > grinder) because they are worthless to the egg > industry. Although > > chickens can live into their teens, hens raised for > eggs soon become > > exhausted, and their egg production begins to wane > when they are about > > two years old. When this happens, they are slaughtered > for food or > > simply buried alive. > > > > Chicken farmers are also notorious for starving hens > in a practice > > known as forced-molting. In nature, birds molt, or > replace all their > > feathers in the course of a year to maintain their > plumage. A natural > > molt often happens at the onset of winter, when nature > discourages the > > hatching of chicks. Hens stop laying eggs and > concentrate their > > energies on staying warm and growing new feathers. The > egg industry > > exploits this natural process by forcing an entire > flock to molt > > simultaneously. This is done to pump more eggs out of > exhausted hens > > when it cheaper to " recycle " them rather > than immediately slaughter > > them after a year of relentless egg- laying on a > calcium-deficient > > diet. > > > > To trigger the physiological shock of the forced molt, > a University of > > California poultry researcher (Donald Bell) recommends > the removal of > > all food for no less than five days and as long as > fourteen days. > > Survivors may be force-molted two or three times, > based on economics. > > At any given time, more than six million hens in the > U.S. are being > > systematically starved in their cages, according to > the U.S. > > Department of Agriculture. > > > > Surprisingly, there are no regulations whatsoever for > " free-range " > > eggs. In reality, hens may be stuffed into a barn and > never get near > > a door, or the weather may be too cold for a door to > ever be opened. > > Most free-range hens still do not have enough room to > stretch their > > wings, they are often de-beaked, and they are still > painfully > > slaughtered. So free-range animals are not free, and > their treatment > > is " humane " only in the eyes of the > industry, which chooses to define > > that word however they wish. But I can assure you that > you and I > > would not define the word as they do. As Tom Regan, > noted animal > > rights author, claims, " ...(what their) > spokespersons say about their > > treatment of animals (these industries treat animals > " humanely " ) is > > not sometimes false. It is always false. The book > (Empty Cages) helps > > readers understand why these spokespersons should > never be trusted. " > > And the effects of this mistreatment are suffered by > the 283 million > > egg-laying hens in the US, which laid approximately > 76.3 billion table > > eggs in 2004. These 283 million egg-laying hens are > confined and > > abused, leading to 2.5 trillion (= 283 million x 365 > days x 24 hours / > > day) hours of chicken prison per year in the US alone. > > > > 3. Eggs are unhealthy for humans. In a purely natural > state, eggs > > are loaded with saturated fat and cholesterol, and may > increase your > > risk of heart attacks, diabetes, and other diseases. > The only two > > researchers in human history who have successfully > reversed heart > > disease, by far America's biggest killer, have > included an exclusively > > vegetarian diet as a part of their programs. On the > Dr. Dean Ornish > > and Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn programs, patients become > " heart attack > > proof " (to quote Dr. Esselstyn, in the August > 1999 issue of the > > American Journal of Cardiology) by getting their > cholesterol levels to > > below 150 (the average vegan cholesterol level is > 128), the level > > below which no one has ever been documented as having > died from a > > heart attack. But the problems extend beyond the > natural make-up of > > eggs. " Industrialized " chickens are fed > antibiotics and other drugs. > > Forced molting is so stressful that it increases bone > breakage and > > impairs the hens' immune system, predisposing the > birds and their eggs > > to Salmonella infection. USDA immunologist Peter Holt > reports that > > while unmolted hens usually have to ingest 50,000 > Salmonella cells to > > become infected, molted hens need fewer than 10. Once > infected, > > these hens are more likely to lay contaminated eggs. > Industrialized > > chickens are prone to bacterial infections and exposed > to pesticides. > > The practice of recycling manure, dead chickens, > feathers, and > > condemned animal parts back into animals' feed is > also believed to > > spread diseases. The loss of genetic diversity, driven > by the large > > number of chickens coming from a small number of > breeders, may lead to > > a biological disaster if pathogens spread through the > chicken > > industry. > > > > The culprits behind the Avian flu are not wild birds, > but the broiler > > breeder chicken farmers who place the animals in high > density barns, > > allowing viruses to mutate and spread rapidly. > > > > 4. Chicken farms are large sources of pollution. The > massive buildup > > of animals creates large amounts of concentrated waste > that usually > > goes right into rivers and streams, and threatens to > hurt eco-systems > > and human communities. I was surprised to learn that > raising animals > > for food requires more than half the water used in the > United States, > > and that some claim that animal farms are the biggest > source of > > pollution of our water and topsoil. Presently, there > are 64 egg > > producing companies with 1 million plus layers and 11 > companies with > > greater than 5 million layers. There are approximately > 260 egg > > producing companies with flocks of 75,000 hens or > more. These 260 > > companies represent about 95% of all the layers in the > U.S. Seventeen > > years ago (1987), there were around 2,500 operations. > In general, > > these companies that hold a larger market share have > turned to > > conserving capital through exploiting returns to scale > and > > compromising the health and quality of life of the > chickens, or > > factors of production. In other words, build bigger > chicken farms and > > put each chicken in less space. In the major egg > producing states, > > flocks of 100,000 laying hens are not unusual and some > flocks number > > more than 1 million. > > > > According to the National Resources Defense Council, > > > > " The shallow groundwater table on the Eastern > Shore [of the Chesapeake > > Bay] makes the area extremely vulnerable to nitrogen > pollution. > > Consequently, in areas where feedlots are > concentrated, drinking water > > can be contaminated with nitrates, which have been > linked to a > > potentially fatal inability to carry oxygen in blood > in infants and > > miscarriages among women. " > > > > In addition to the immense diversion of clean water > and the creation > > of a vast amount of water pollution, chicken farms > produce large > > amounts of ammonia gases that fertilize the algae in > estuaries, > > leading to an overabundance that will eventually fall > to the bottom > > and decompose in sediments. There, they fuel the > growth of > > microorganisms that suck oxygen out of the lower > layers of water, > > creating " dead zones " that are void of fish, > shellfish and other > > aquatic life for part of each year. > > > > 5. The use of grain to feed livestock is dreadfully > inefficient. > > According to Dr. M.E. Ensminger, Ph.D., an > internationally recognized > > animal agriculture specialist, " About 2,000 > pounds of concentrates > > [grains] must be supplied to livestock in order to > produce enough meat > > and other livestock products to support a person for a > year, whereas > > 400 pounds of grain (corn, wheat, rice, soybeans, > etc.) eaten directly > > will support a person for a year. Thus, a given > quantity of grain > > eaten directly will feed five times as many people as > it will if it is > > first fed to livestock and then is eaten indirectly by > humans in the > > form of livestock products. " While this comment > applies to all > > livestock, of which free-range chickens are only a > small subset, I > > would argue that it is disingenuous to comment on the > plight of the > > starving children of the world while ignoring the > realities of a food > > chain that robs the poor of sustenance in order to > feed the rich a > > steady diet of animal products of any kind. > > > > 6. Humans do not need eggs to survive. Little of this > would matter > > if humans needed eggs to survive. We would nod our > heads to all of the > > above, then continue to eat eggs, since our survival > instincts are so > > dominant. But humans can and do live even better on a > vegan diet than > > on a diet based on animal products. > > > > 7. Egg substitutes are widely available. Even those > nodding their > > heads to #6, above, may not have the willpower to > break away from > > centuries of tradition and decades of personal > consumption. Or they > > may choose to simply " look the other way " . > But egg substitutes are so > > widely available and their properties so similar to > that of eggs that > > differences in taste or texture are minimal for most > recipes that call > > for eggs. > > > > , Mary Chris Jaklevic > <mcjrunner > > wrote: > > > > > > Unfortunately, free range is no guarantee of good > treatment. Also, > > eggs are not a particularly healthy food. They are > certainly > > unnecessary for baking delicious cakes, cookies, > pancakes and other > > treats. I find eggless baking more convenient. And > believe me, no one > > notices the difference! > > > > > > For information on this topic and much more on > veganism and > > vegetarianism, I highly recommend the " Food for > Thought " podcast by > > Colleen Patrick Goudreau. Go to: > > www.compassionatecooks.com/podcast.htm. It's also > available on iTunes. > > > > > > Check out these specific podcasts:: > > > > > > " Aren't free-range eggs better than eggs > from battery-cage hens? > > > " What's wrong with eating eggs since the > chickens aren't killed to > > get her eggs? " > > > " A visit to two 'free-range' egg > facilities " > > > " Replacing eggs in cooking and baking " > > > > > > Also, Colleen has published an excellent book, > The Joy of Vegan > > Baking, which covers the gamut. > > > > > > Good luck! > > > MC > > > > > > > > > ¡Sé el Bello 51 de People en Español! ¡Es tu > oportunidad de > > Brillar! Sube tus fotos ya. http://www.51bello.com/ > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I don't have the box in front of me, but aside from suspecting that egg replacers are not all that processed (when I think 'processed', I think mostly of things that have been altered, nutrients taken out, etc. The ingredients in egg replacer are fairly straightforward.), just the fact that you are raising your risk of cancer and other diseases with every dairy product you allow into your life, is enough to declare egg replacer healthier. I say this as someone who consumes occasional egg whites and some other dairy. I'm sure others will have more reasons, too. ________________________________ tanya wynette <wynettelove Thursday, February 19, 2009 4:04:29 PM Re: Re: Egg questions Here is my question. I know that the eggs that my family eats are from healthy happy chickens, and since I have no roosters I know that they are not fertilized because I have no roosters. They eat our fruits and vegi's along with their grains. But how can we say that processed egg replacers are more healthy than unprocessed protine packed eggs? It makes no sence to me. --- On Thu, 2/19/09, Dianna Lu <diannalu (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote: > Dianna Lu <diannalu (AT) comcast (DOT) net> > Re: Re: Egg questions > @gro ups.com > Thursday, February 19, 2009, 1:39 PM > Thanks, that was very sobering. I've just resolved to > try out those > egg replacers after all, been drifting back to using eggs > (pretty > rarely but still) ever since my pregnancy 4 years ago. Boy > is that a > time when the pressure comes on from family. Seemed like an > easy way > to placate them as eggs didn't seem that harmful but I > can see that > they are. > > I'm kind of annoyed to learn this actually since > it's easier not to > know, not to think about it. > > :-) > > Dee > > On Feb 19, 2009, at 12:22 PM, ny.vegan wrote: > > > If the eggs are fertilized, remember that for every > hen born, a > > rooster is thrown into the trash to suffocate or into > a grinder to > > spend its first (and only) day in this world getting > sliced to death. > > > > An in-law once asked me what was wrong in eating > free-range eggs, > > preferably unfertilized. Below is my response. > > > > 1. The exploitation of nonhuman animals for our sake > is morally wrong. > > Jeremy Bentham said it well when he stated " The > question is not `Can > > they reason?' nor, `Can they talk?' but, `Can > they suffer?' " Tom > > Regan took this a step further. The question is not > only can animals > > suffer, but are they the subjects-of- a-life? All > animals have a past, > > a story, a biography. They have histories. Mink and > bears, elephants > > and dolphins, pigs and chickens, cats and dogs: each > is a unique > > somebody, not a disposable something. > > > > From Tom Regan, > > > > But what is wrong isn't the pain, isn't the > suffering, isn't the > > deprivation. These compound what's wrong. > Sometimes — often — they > > make it much, much worse. But they are not the > fundamental wrong. > > > > The fundamental wrong is the system that allows us to > view animals as > > our resources, here for us — to be eaten, or > surgically manipulated, > > or exploited for sport or money. Once we accept this > view of animals — > > as our resources — the rest is as predictable as it > is regrettable. > > Why worry about their loneliness, their pain, their > death? Since > > animals exist for us, to benefit us in one way or > another, what harms > > them really doesn't matter — or matters only if > it starts to bother > > us, makes us feel a trifle uneasy when we eat our veal > escallop, for > > example. > > > > 2. The egg business is a shamefully cruel business. > When humans fail > > to recognize chickens as a subjects-of- a-life, then > they treat them as > > lifeless inputs in a production process. With precious > little legal > > protection for the animals, the goal of that business, > as in any > > for-profit business, is profit maximization. Thus, any > costs that can > > be eliminated without affecting production will be > eliminated. One > > such cost is that of keeping male chickens alive. In > the poultry > > business, day-old male chicks are killed (usually in a > high-speed > > grinder) because they are worthless to the egg > industry. Although > > chickens can live into their teens, hens raised for > eggs soon become > > exhausted, and their egg production begins to wane > when they are about > > two years old. When this happens, they are slaughtered > for food or > > simply buried alive. > > > > Chicken farmers are also notorious for starving hens > in a practice > > known as forced-molting. In nature, birds molt, or > replace all their > > feathers in the course of a year to maintain their > plumage. A natural > > molt often happens at the onset of winter, when nature > discourages the > > hatching of chicks. Hens stop laying eggs and > concentrate their > > energies on staying warm and growing new feathers. The > egg industry > > exploits this natural process by forcing an entire > flock to molt > > simultaneously. This is done to pump more eggs out of > exhausted hens > > when it cheaper to " recycle " them rather > than immediately slaughter > > them after a year of relentless egg- laying on a > calcium-deficient > > diet. > > > > To trigger the physiological shock of the forced molt, > a University of > > California poultry researcher (Donald Bell) recommends > the removal of > > all food for no less than five days and as long as > fourteen days. > > Survivors may be force-molted two or three times, > based on economics. > > At any given time, more than six million hens in the > U.S. are being > > systematically starved in their cages, according to > the U.S. > > Department of Agriculture. > > > > Surprisingly, there are no regulations whatsoever for > " free-range " > > eggs. In reality, hens may be stuffed into a barn and > never get near > > a door, or the weather may be too cold for a door to > ever be opened. > > Most free-range hens still do not have enough room to > stretch their > > wings, they are often de-beaked, and they are still > painfully > > slaughtered. So free-range animals are not free, and > their treatment > > is " humane " only in the eyes of the > industry, which chooses to define > > that word however they wish. But I can assure you that > you and I > > would not define the word as they do. As Tom Regan, > noted animal > > rights author, claims, " ...(what their) > spokespersons say about their > > treatment of animals (these industries treat animals > " humanely " ) is > > not sometimes false. It is always false. The book > (Empty Cages) helps > > readers understand why these spokespersons should > never be trusted. " > > And the effects of this mistreatment are suffered by > the 283 million > > egg-laying hens in the US, which laid approximately > 76.3 billion table > > eggs in 2004. These 283 million egg-laying hens are > confined and > > abused, leading to 2.5 trillion (= 283 million x 365 > days x 24 hours / > > day) hours of chicken prison per year in the US alone. > > > > 3. Eggs are unhealthy for humans. In a purely natural > state, eggs > > are loaded with saturated fat and cholesterol, and may > increase your > > risk of heart attacks, diabetes, and other diseases. > The only two > > researchers in human history who have successfully > reversed heart > > disease, by far America's biggest killer, have > included an exclusively > > vegetarian diet as a part of their programs. On the > Dr. Dean Ornish > > and Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn programs, patients become > " heart attack > > proof " (to quote Dr. Esselstyn, in the August > 1999 issue of the > > American Journal of Cardiology) by getting their > cholesterol levels to > > below 150 (the average vegan cholesterol level is > 128), the level > > below which no one has ever been documented as having > died from a > > heart attack. But the problems extend beyond the > natural make-up of > > eggs. " Industrialized " chickens are fed > antibiotics and other drugs. > > Forced molting is so stressful that it increases bone > breakage and > > impairs the hens' immune system, predisposing the > birds and their eggs > > to Salmonella infection. USDA immunologist Peter Holt > reports that > > while unmolted hens usually have to ingest 50,000 > Salmonella cells to > > become infected, molted hens need fewer than 10. Once > infected, > > these hens are more likely to lay contaminated eggs. > Industrialized > > chickens are prone to bacterial infections and exposed > to pesticides. > > The practice of recycling manure, dead chickens, > feathers, and > > condemned animal parts back into animals' feed is > also believed to > > spread diseases. The loss of genetic diversity, driven > by the large > > number of chickens coming from a small number of > breeders, may lead to > > a biological disaster if pathogens spread through the > chicken > > industry. > > > > The culprits behind the Avian flu are not wild birds, > but the broiler > > breeder chicken farmers who place the animals in high > density barns, > > allowing viruses to mutate and spread rapidly. > > > > 4. Chicken farms are large sources of pollution. The > massive buildup > > of animals creates large amounts of concentrated waste > that usually > > goes right into rivers and streams, and threatens to > hurt eco-systems > > and human communities. I was surprised to learn that > raising animals > > for food requires more than half the water used in the > United States, > > and that some claim that animal farms are the biggest > source of > > pollution of our water and topsoil. Presently, there > are 64 egg > > producing companies with 1 million plus layers and 11 > companies with > > greater than 5 million layers. There are approximately > 260 egg > > producing companies with flocks of 75,000 hens or > more. These 260 > > companies represent about 95% of all the layers in the > U.S. Seventeen > > years ago (1987), there were around 2,500 operations. > In general, > > these companies that hold a larger market share have > turned to > > conserving capital through exploiting returns to scale > and > > compromising the health and quality of life of the > chickens, or > > factors of production. In other words, build bigger > chicken farms and > > put each chicken in less space. In the major egg > producing states, > > flocks of 100,000 laying hens are not unusual and some > flocks number > > more than 1 million. > > > > According to the National Resources Defense Council, > > > > " The shallow groundwater table on the Eastern > Shore [of the Chesapeake > > Bay] makes the area extremely vulnerable to nitrogen > pollution. > > Consequently, in areas where feedlots are > concentrated, drinking water > > can be contaminated with nitrates, which have been > linked to a > > potentially fatal inability to carry oxygen in blood > in infants and > > miscarriages among women. " > > > > In addition to the immense diversion of clean water > and the creation > > of a vast amount of water pollution, chicken farms > produce large > > amounts of ammonia gases that fertilize the algae in > estuaries, > > leading to an overabundance that will eventually fall > to the bottom > > and decompose in sediments. There, they fuel the > growth of > > microorganisms that suck oxygen out of the lower > layers of water, > > creating " dead zones " that are void of fish, > shellfish and other > > aquatic life for part of each year. > > > > 5. The use of grain to feed livestock is dreadfully > inefficient. > > According to Dr. M.E. Ensminger, Ph.D., an > internationally recognized > > animal agriculture specialist, " About 2,000 > pounds of concentrates > > [grains] must be supplied to livestock in order to > produce enough meat > > and other livestock products to support a person for a > year, whereas > > 400 pounds of grain (corn, wheat, rice, soybeans, > etc.) eaten directly > > will support a person for a year. Thus, a given > quantity of grain > > eaten directly will feed five times as many people as > it will if it is > > first fed to livestock and then is eaten indirectly by > humans in the > > form of livestock products. " While this comment > applies to all > > livestock, of which free-range chickens are only a > small subset, I > > would argue that it is disingenuous to comment on the > plight of the > > starving children of the world while ignoring the > realities of a food > > chain that robs the poor of sustenance in order to > feed the rich a > > steady diet of animal products of any kind. > > > > 6. Humans do not need eggs to survive. Little of this > would matter > > if humans needed eggs to survive. We would nod our > heads to all of the > > above, then continue to eat eggs, since our survival > instincts are so > > dominant. But humans can and do live even better on a > vegan diet than > > on a diet based on animal products. > > > > 7. Egg substitutes are widely available. Even those > nodding their > > heads to #6, above, may not have the willpower to > break away from > > centuries of tradition and decades of personal > consumption. Or they > > may choose to simply " look the other way " . > But egg substitutes are so > > widely available and their properties so similar to > that of eggs that > > differences in taste or texture are minimal for most > recipes that call > > for eggs. > > > > @gro ups.com, Mary Chris Jaklevic > <mcjrunner@. ..> > > wrote: > > > > > > Unfortunately, free range is no guarantee of good > treatment. Also, > > eggs are not a particularly healthy food. They are > certainly > > unnecessary for baking delicious cakes, cookies, > pancakes and other > > treats. I find eggless baking more convenient. And > believe me, no one > > notices the difference! > > > > > > For information on this topic and much more on > veganism and > > vegetarianism, I highly recommend the " Food for > Thought " podcast by > > Colleen Patrick Goudreau. Go to: > > www.compassionateco oks.com/podcast. htm. It's also > available on iTunes. > > > > > > Check out these specific podcasts:: > > > > > > " Aren't free-range eggs better than eggs > from battery-cage hens? > > > " What's wrong with eating eggs since the > chickens aren't killed to > > get her eggs? " > > > " A visit to two 'free-range' egg > facilities " > > > " Replacing eggs in cooking and baking " > > > > > > Also, Colleen has published an excellent book, > The Joy of Vegan > > Baking, which covers the gamut. > > > > > > Good luck! > > > MC > > > > > > > > > ¡Sé el Bello 51 de People en Español! ¡Es tu > oportunidad de > > Brillar! Sube tus fotos ya. http://www.51bello. com/ > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 We have been vegan for over 7 years .Depending on the recipe as egg replacers we use ; ener-g Ingredients: Potato starch, tapioca flour, leavening (calcium lactate [non-dairy], calcium carbonate, citric acid), cellulose gum, carbohydrate gum ground flax seed okara ( left overs from making our own soymilk) soft tofu mashed ripe bananas http://www.theppk.com/veganbaking.html here is a link that might be useful hth's Teresa Please check out my ebay store http://stores.ebay.com/Coastal-Clearance-and-Closeouts " Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. " - jenni claire garverick Friday, February 20, 2009 9:36 AM Re: Re: Egg questions I don't have the box in front of me, but aside from suspecting that egg replacers are not all that processed (when I think 'processed', I think mostly of things that have been altered, nutrients taken out, etc. The ingredients in egg replacer are fairly straightforward.), just the fact that you are raising your risk of cancer and other diseases with every dairy product you allow into your life, is enough to declare egg replacer healthier. I say this as someone who consumes occasional egg whites and some other dairy. I'm sure others will have more reasons, too. ________________________________ tanya wynette <wynettelove Thursday, February 19, 2009 4:04:29 PM Re: Re: Egg questions Here is my question. I know that the eggs that my family eats are from healthy happy chickens, and since I have no roosters I know that they are not fertilized because I have no roosters. They eat our fruits and vegi's along with their grains. But how can we say that processed egg replacers are more healthy than unprocessed protine packed eggs? It makes no sence to me. --- On Thu, 2/19/09, Dianna Lu <diannalu (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote: > Dianna Lu <diannalu (AT) comcast (DOT) net> > Re: Re: Egg questions > @gro ups.com > Thursday, February 19, 2009, 1:39 PM > Thanks, that was very sobering. I've just resolved to > try out those > egg replacers after all, been drifting back to using eggs > (pretty > rarely but still) ever since my pregnancy 4 years ago. Boy > is that a > time when the pressure comes on from family. Seemed like an > easy way > to placate them as eggs didn't seem that harmful but I > can see that > they are. > > I'm kind of annoyed to learn this actually since > it's easier not to > know, not to think about it. > > :-) > > Dee > > On Feb 19, 2009, at 12:22 PM, ny.vegan wrote: > > > If the eggs are fertilized, remember that for every > hen born, a > > rooster is thrown into the trash to suffocate or into > a grinder to > > spend its first (and only) day in this world getting > sliced to death. > > > > An in-law once asked me what was wrong in eating > free-range eggs, > > preferably unfertilized. Below is my response. > > > > 1. The exploitation of nonhuman animals for our sake > is morally wrong. > > Jeremy Bentham said it well when he stated " The > question is not `Can > > they reason?' nor, `Can they talk?' but, `Can > they suffer?' " Tom > > Regan took this a step further. The question is not > only can animals > > suffer, but are they the subjects-of- a-life? All > animals have a past, > > a story, a biography. They have histories. Mink and > bears, elephants > > and dolphins, pigs and chickens, cats and dogs: each > is a unique > > somebody, not a disposable something. > > > > From Tom Regan, > > > > But what is wrong isn't the pain, isn't the > suffering, isn't the > > deprivation. These compound what's wrong. > Sometimes — often — they > > make it much, much worse. But they are not the > fundamental wrong. > > > > The fundamental wrong is the system that allows us to > view animals as > > our resources, here for us — to be eaten, or > surgically manipulated, > > or exploited for sport or money. Once we accept this > view of animals — > > as our resources — the rest is as predictable as it > is regrettable. > > Why worry about their loneliness, their pain, their > death? Since > > animals exist for us, to benefit us in one way or > another, what harms > > them really doesn't matter — or matters only if > it starts to bother > > us, makes us feel a trifle uneasy when we eat our veal > escallop, for > > example. > > > > 2. The egg business is a shamefully cruel business. > When humans fail > > to recognize chickens as a subjects-of- a-life, then > they treat them as > > lifeless inputs in a production process. With precious > little legal > > protection for the animals, the goal of that business, > as in any > > for-profit business, is profit maximization. Thus, any > costs that can > > be eliminated without affecting production will be > eliminated. One > > such cost is that of keeping male chickens alive. In > the poultry > > business, day-old male chicks are killed (usually in a > high-speed > > grinder) because they are worthless to the egg > industry. Although > > chickens can live into their teens, hens raised for > eggs soon become > > exhausted, and their egg production begins to wane > when they are about > > two years old. When this happens, they are slaughtered > for food or > > simply buried alive. > > > > Chicken farmers are also notorious for starving hens > in a practice > > known as forced-molting. In nature, birds molt, or > replace all their > > feathers in the course of a year to maintain their > plumage. A natural > > molt often happens at the onset of winter, when nature > discourages the > > hatching of chicks. Hens stop laying eggs and > concentrate their > > energies on staying warm and growing new feathers. The > egg industry > > exploits this natural process by forcing an entire > flock to molt > > simultaneously. This is done to pump more eggs out of > exhausted hens > > when it cheaper to " recycle " them rather > than immediately slaughter > > them after a year of relentless egg- laying on a > calcium-deficient > > diet. > > > > To trigger the physiological shock of the forced molt, > a University of > > California poultry researcher (Donald Bell) recommends > the removal of > > all food for no less than five days and as long as > fourteen days. > > Survivors may be force-molted two or three times, > based on economics. > > At any given time, more than six million hens in the > U.S. are being > > systematically starved in their cages, according to > the U.S. > > Department of Agriculture. > > > > Surprisingly, there are no regulations whatsoever for > " free-range " > > eggs. In reality, hens may be stuffed into a barn and > never get near > > a door, or the weather may be too cold for a door to > ever be opened. > > Most free-range hens still do not have enough room to > stretch their > > wings, they are often de-beaked, and they are still > painfully > > slaughtered. So free-range animals are not free, and > their treatment > > is " humane " only in the eyes of the > industry, which chooses to define > > that word however they wish. But I can assure you that > you and I > > would not define the word as they do. As Tom Regan, > noted animal > > rights author, claims, " ...(what their) > spokespersons say about their > > treatment of animals (these industries treat animals > " humanely " ) is > > not sometimes false. It is always false. The book > (Empty Cages) helps > > readers understand why these spokespersons should > never be trusted. " > > And the effects of this mistreatment are suffered by > the 283 million > > egg-laying hens in the US, which laid approximately > 76.3 billion table > > eggs in 2004. These 283 million egg-laying hens are > confined and > > abused, leading to 2.5 trillion (= 283 million x 365 > days x 24 hours / > > day) hours of chicken prison per year in the US alone. > > > > 3. Eggs are unhealthy for humans. In a purely natural > state, eggs > > are loaded with saturated fat and cholesterol, and may > increase your > > risk of heart attacks, diabetes, and other diseases. > The only two > > researchers in human history who have successfully > reversed heart > > disease, by far America's biggest killer, have > included an exclusively > > vegetarian diet as a part of their programs. On the > Dr. Dean Ornish > > and Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn programs, patients become > " heart attack > > proof " (to quote Dr. Esselstyn, in the August > 1999 issue of the > > American Journal of Cardiology) by getting their > cholesterol levels to > > below 150 (the average vegan cholesterol level is > 128), the level > > below which no one has ever been documented as having > died from a > > heart attack. But the problems extend beyond the > natural make-up of > > eggs. " Industrialized " chickens are fed > antibiotics and other drugs. > > Forced molting is so stressful that it increases bone > breakage and > > impairs the hens' immune system, predisposing the > birds and their eggs > > to Salmonella infection. USDA immunologist Peter Holt > reports that > > while unmolted hens usually have to ingest 50,000 > Salmonella cells to > > become infected, molted hens need fewer than 10. Once > infected, > > these hens are more likely to lay contaminated eggs. > Industrialized > > chickens are prone to bacterial infections and exposed > to pesticides. > > The practice of recycling manure, dead chickens, > feathers, and > > condemned animal parts back into animals' feed is > also believed to > > spread diseases. The loss of genetic diversity, driven > by the large > > number of chickens coming from a small number of > breeders, may lead to > > a biological disaster if pathogens spread through the > chicken > > industry. > > > > The culprits behind the Avian flu are not wild birds, > but the broiler > > breeder chicken farmers who place the animals in high > density barns, > > allowing viruses to mutate and spread rapidly. > > > > 4. Chicken farms are large sources of pollution. The > massive buildup > > of animals creates large amounts of concentrated waste > that usually > > goes right into rivers and streams, and threatens to > hurt eco-systems > > and human communities. I was surprised to learn that > raising animals > > for food requires more than half the water used in the > United States, > > and that some claim that animal farms are the biggest > source of > > pollution of our water and topsoil. Presently, there > are 64 egg > > producing companies with 1 million plus layers and 11 > companies with > > greater than 5 million layers. There are approximately > 260 egg > > producing companies with flocks of 75,000 hens or > more. These 260 > > companies represent about 95% of all the layers in the > U.S. Seventeen > > years ago (1987), there were around 2,500 operations. > In general, > > these companies that hold a larger market share have > turned to > > conserving capital through exploiting returns to scale > and > > compromising the health and quality of life of the > chickens, or > > factors of production. In other words, build bigger > chicken farms and > > put each chicken in less space. In the major egg > producing states, > > flocks of 100,000 laying hens are not unusual and some > flocks number > > more than 1 million. > > > > According to the National Resources Defense Council, > > > > " The shallow groundwater table on the Eastern > Shore [of the Chesapeake > > Bay] makes the area extremely vulnerable to nitrogen > pollution. > > Consequently, in areas where feedlots are > concentrated, drinking water > > can be contaminated with nitrates, which have been > linked to a > > potentially fatal inability to carry oxygen in blood > in infants and > > miscarriages among women. " > > > > In addition to the immense diversion of clean water > and the creation > > of a vast amount of water pollution, chicken farms > produce large > > amounts of ammonia gases that fertilize the algae in > estuaries, > > leading to an overabundance that will eventually fall > to the bottom > > and decompose in sediments. There, they fuel the > growth of > > microorganisms that suck oxygen out of the lower > layers of water, > > creating " dead zones " that are void of fish, > shellfish and other > > aquatic life for part of each year. > > > > 5. The use of grain to feed livestock is dreadfully > inefficient. > > According to Dr. M.E. Ensminger, Ph.D., an > internationally recognized > > animal agriculture specialist, " About 2,000 > pounds of concentrates > > [grains] must be supplied to livestock in order to > produce enough meat > > and other livestock products to support a person for a > year, whereas > > 400 pounds of grain (corn, wheat, rice, soybeans, > etc.) eaten directly > > will support a person for a year. Thus, a given > quantity of grain > > eaten directly will feed five times as many people as > it will if it is > > first fed to livestock and then is eaten indirectly by > humans in the > > form of livestock products. " While this comment > applies to all > > livestock, of which free-range chickens are only a > small subset, I > > would argue that it is disingenuous to comment on the > plight of the > > starving children of the world while ignoring the > realities of a food > > chain that robs the poor of sustenance in order to > feed the rich a > > steady diet of animal products of any kind. > > > > 6. Humans do not need eggs to survive. Little of this > would matter > > if humans needed eggs to survive. We would nod our > heads to all of the > > above, then continue to eat eggs, since our survival > instincts are so > > dominant. But humans can and do live even better on a > vegan diet than > > on a diet based on animal products. > > > > 7. Egg substitutes are widely available. Even those > nodding their > > heads to #6, above, may not have the willpower to > break away from > > centuries of tradition and decades of personal > consumption. Or they > > may choose to simply " look the other way " . > But egg substitutes are so > > widely available and their properties so similar to > that of eggs that > > differences in taste or texture are minimal for most > recipes that call > > for eggs. > > > > @gro ups.com, Mary Chris Jaklevic > <mcjrunner@. ..> > > wrote: > > > > > > Unfortunately, free range is no guarantee of good > treatment. Also, > > eggs are not a particularly healthy food. They are > certainly > > unnecessary for baking delicious cakes, cookies, > pancakes and other > > treats. I find eggless baking more convenient. And > believe me, no one > > notices the difference! > > > > > > For information on this topic and much more on > veganism and > > vegetarianism, I highly recommend the " Food for > Thought " podcast by > > Colleen Patrick Goudreau. Go to: > > www.compassionateco oks.com/podcast. htm. It's also > available on iTunes. > > > > > > Check out these specific podcasts:: > > > > > > " Aren't free-range eggs better than eggs > from battery-cage hens? > > > " What's wrong with eating eggs since the > chickens aren't killed to > > get her eggs? " > > > " A visit to two 'free-range' egg > facilities " > > > " Replacing eggs in cooking and baking " > > > > > > Also, Colleen has published an excellent book, > The Joy of Vegan > > Baking, which covers the gamut. > > > > > > Good luck! > > > MC > > > > > > > > > ¡Sé el Bello 51 de People en Español! ¡Es tu > oportunidad de > > Brillar! Sube tus fotos ya. http://www.51bello. com/ > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 http://www.veganessentials.com/catalog/ener-g-egg-replacer.htm calcium lactate noun a white crystalline salt made by the action of lactic acid on calcium carbonate; used in foods (as a baking powder) and given medically as a source of calcium Main Entry: calcium carbonate Function: noun : a calcium salt CaCO3 that is found in limestone, chalk, marble, plant ashes, bones, and many shells, that isobtained also as a white precipitate by passing carbon dioxide into a suspension of calcium hydroxide in water, and that is used in dentifrices and in pharmaceuticals as an antacid and to supplementbodily calcium stores car⋅box⋅y⋅meth⋅yl⋅cel⋅lu⋅lose    /kɑrˌbɒksiˌmɛθəlˈsɛlyəˌloʊs/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kahr-bok-see-meth-uhl-sel-yuh-lohs] Show IPA Pronunciation –noun a white, water-soluble polymer derived from cellulose, used as a coating and sizing for paper and textiles, a stabilizer for various foods, and an appetite suppressor. Also called cellulose gum. http://www.ask.com/web?q=carbohydrate%20gum & l=dir & qsrc=167 & o=10616 Ener-g Egg Replacer is not the only item that can be used to replace eggs in baking. Here is a list of other alternatives: http://www.theppk.com/veganbaking.html Now, if one is really concerned with eating processed foods, then I'd think they'd switch to a whole foods diet. It is possible to consume a healthy whole foods diet without including eggs, which are not necessary for human health and can actually cause disease. That said, we must all make our own choices- meat eaters, vegetarians and vegans. *I* would rather not support the idea that it's okay to consume animals or animal products, than raise chickens in order to eat ovum expelled during their menstrual cycle. :-) But that's just me (actually, me and lots of vegans). Jenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 In a cake, the eggs serve as a leavening agent to make the cake light and fluffy, and in cookies and muffins, the eggs add moisture and act as a binder, gluing everything together. Cooks can use much healthier substitutes for each purpose. Common substitutes include: flaxseed meal, potato flour, soy flour, cooked oatmeal, uncooked cream of wheat, uncooked polenta, tapioca flour, bananas and applesauce, among others. We use silken tofu with salsa and fresh ingredients to make scrambled tofu, flax seed with pancakes, and a host of substitutes for cakes and other baked goods. Here is a good review with other egg substitutes and recipe equivalents for one egg: http://www.emaxhealth.com/15/23970.html Then, to remember why you should use substitutes, go here: http://www.all-creatures.org/anex/chicken-baby-02.html and here: http://my_sarisari_store.typepad.com/my_sarisari_store/2007/03/oneday_old_chic.h\ tml If you want to help stop this suffering, United Poultry Concerns is a national non-profit organization that addresses the treatment of domestic fowl in the US. You can visit them here: http://www.upc-online.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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