Guest guest Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Hi all, I know some of you on this list garden. I have an ethical problem using manure and am hoping some of you can offer advice. I live where there is very poor soil. While ovo-lacto, I had the soil tested yearly and mixed in compost, composted manures and other ammendments. Still my gardens were always on the edge compared to the other states where I have lived. I haven't used any animal products in my gardens in over 10 years as I am now vegan. Now, I cannot grow enough in my soil to feed myself much alone my family of three. And, it is far less expensive to just purchase organic produce at the HFS. So, I gave it up about 5 years ago. I want to garden again for several reasons that are important to me. I plan to build raised beds this year and use " Mel's Mixture " from Square Foot Gardening. (Yes, I have problems with taking peat from wetlands but I am at such a loss.) I built one raised bed for my winter garden and the transplants never grew past 5 inches tall and the seeds never sprouted. (I live in FL so this shouldn't have happened. I had collard, kale, broccoli, cauliflower and other in my past winter gardens.) My friends using synthetic fertilizer have eaten from their winter gardens here. Mel's Mix does call for manure so I talked myself into using vermicompost (as well as some ammendments such as corn and green sand). I also built an in-ground worm composting box so the worms may leave if they wish (or if I don't feed them enough - they won't die). Vermicompost is supposed to be better than any of the other manures but I didn't see that it worked at all. We also compost leaves and other materials. I don't want to use manure but am wondering what to do. I have ordered the vegan fertilizer from Seeds of Change but it is a long term product and offers no nutrients up front (and I have already used some of the ingredients). I also will not use any synthetic fertilizers (Peters, Miracle Grow). I have kelp fertilizer. I know that as vegans, however strict, we must use some items with animal products to interact in the world. My computer for instance and tires on cars or mass transit vehicles and organic produce at the HFS. I am almost to the point of talking myself into using manure just when I build the beds and then using the vegan mixture and other ammendments and compost on a regular basis to try to keep the nutrient level in the soil high. But, I think justification based on " there is no other way " is a slippery slope. And, I am afraid that without finding the correct mixture of vegan ammendments, I will have to repeat the manure each spring. What do the vegan gardeners on this list do? Thanks, Carrol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Robin, here's a link to a food for thought podcast about gardening, she recommends some specific products in this one. HTH. Jenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 That is a tough one and something that I have struggled with as well. I also love the square-foot method, and while our gardening is severely limited while we're renting, we've always planned to have a homestead and grow most of our own food. Here are some sites about " veganic " gardening that might help you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan_organic_gardening http://www.vegfamily.com/gardening/veganic-gardening.htm http://www.veganorganic.net/index.htm http://www.gentleworld.org/ There's also a book called " Veganic Gardening. " One thing that comes to mind is to post something in craigslist about anyone in your area who uses a composting toilet. Or to buy one yourself. Then you can have humanure. There are so many ways to amend the soil that don't involve animal products. That being said, I have used eggshells from a friend who has backyard chickens, and I also used vermiculture...I don't really see anything wrong with worm compost, as the worms are just doing what worms do. They live in the same soil where I grow stuff. I never till and always shovel carefully and return worms to the soil when I'm finished working in the area. Green mulching and cover crops are some of the best ways to return fertility to poor soil. Good luck! Chandelle On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 1:34 PM, rtillmansmail <rtillmansmailwrote: > Hi all, > I know some of you on this list garden. I have an ethical problem > using manure and am hoping some of you can offer advice. > > I live where there is very poor soil. While ovo-lacto, I had the soil > tested yearly and mixed in compost, composted manures and other > ammendments. Still my gardens were always on the edge compared to the > other states where I have lived. I haven't used any animal products > in my gardens in over 10 years as I am now vegan. Now, I cannot grow > enough in my soil to feed myself much alone my family of three. And, > it is far less expensive to just purchase organic produce at the HFS. > So, I gave it up about 5 years ago. > > I want to garden again for several reasons that are important to me. > I plan to build raised beds this year and use " Mel's Mixture " from > Square Foot Gardening. (Yes, I have problems with taking peat from > wetlands but I am at such a loss.) I built one raised bed for my > winter garden and the transplants never grew past 5 inches tall and > the seeds never sprouted. (I live in FL so this shouldn't have > happened. I had collard, kale, broccoli, cauliflower and other in my > past winter gardens.) My friends using synthetic fertilizer have > eaten from their winter gardens here. > > Mel's Mix does call for manure so I talked myself into using > vermicompost (as well as some ammendments such as corn and green > sand). I also built an in-ground worm composting box so the worms may > leave if they wish (or if I don't feed them enough - they won't die). > Vermicompost is supposed to be better than any of the other manures > but I didn't see that it worked at all. We also compost leaves and > other materials. > > I don't want to use manure but am wondering what to do. I have > ordered the vegan fertilizer from Seeds of Change but it is a long > term product and offers no nutrients up front (and I have already > used some of the ingredients). I also will not use any synthetic > fertilizers (Peters, Miracle Grow). I have kelp fertilizer. I know > that as vegans, however strict, we must use some items with animal > products to interact in the world. My computer for instance and tires > on cars or mass transit vehicles and organic produce at the HFS. I am > almost to the point of talking myself into using manure just when I > build the beds and then using the vegan mixture and other ammendments > and compost on a regular basis to try to keep the nutrient level in > the soil high. But, I think justification based on " there is no other > way " is a slippery slope. And, I am afraid that without finding the > correct mixture of vegan ammendments, I will have to repeat the > manure each spring. > > What do the vegan gardeners on this list do? > > Thanks, > Carrol > > > -- " The demand for equal rights in every vocation of life is just and fair; but, after all, the most vital right is the right to love and be loved. " ~Emma Goldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Hi, I have put a link below about ORMUS. I have just started experimenting with it so I cannot give you personal experiences. I used it on my houseplants for the first time this morning and plan to use it in the garden this spring and summer. Diane http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/pictures.pdf ________________________________ rtillmansmail <rtillmansmail Monday, March 2, 2009 3:34:45 PM Vegan Gardening Hi all, I know some of you on this list garden. I have an ethical problem using manure and am hoping some of you can offer advice. I live where there is very poor soil. While ovo-lacto, I had the soil tested yearly and mixed in compost, composted manures and other ammendments. Still my gardens were always on the edge compared to the other states where I have lived. I haven't used any animal products in my gardens in over 10 years as I am now vegan. Now, I cannot grow enough in my soil to feed myself much alone my family of three. And, it is far less expensive to just purchase organic produce at the HFS. So, I gave it up about 5 years ago. I want to garden again for several reasons that are important to me. I plan to build raised beds this year and use " Mel's Mixture " from Square Foot Gardening. (Yes, I have problems with taking peat from wetlands but I am at such a loss.) I built one raised bed for my winter garden and the transplants never grew past 5 inches tall and the seeds never sprouted. (I live in FL so this shouldn't have happened. I had collard, kale, broccoli, cauliflower and other in my past winter gardens.) My friends using synthetic fertilizer have eaten from their winter gardens here. Mel's Mix does call for manure so I talked myself into using vermicompost (as well as some ammendments such as corn and green sand). I also built an in-ground worm composting box so the worms may leave if they wish (or if I don't feed them enough - they won't die). Vermicompost is supposed to be better than any of the other manures but I didn't see that it worked at all. We also compost leaves and other materials. I don't want to use manure but am wondering what to do. I have ordered the vegan fertilizer from Seeds of Change but it is a long term product and offers no nutrients up front (and I have already used some of the ingredients) . I also will not use any synthetic fertilizers (Peters, Miracle Grow). I have kelp fertilizer. I know that as vegans, however strict, we must use some items with animal products to interact in the world. My computer for instance and tires on cars or mass transit vehicles and organic produce at the HFS. I am almost to the point of talking myself into using manure just when I build the beds and then using the vegan mixture and other ammendments and compost on a regular basis to try to keep the nutrient level in the soil high. But, I think justification based on " there is no other way " is a slippery slope. And, I am afraid that without finding the correct mixture of vegan ammendments, I will have to repeat the manure each spring. What do the vegan gardeners on this list do? Thanks, Carrol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Hi Chandelle, I remember you posting about building your box - was it last year or the year before? I am familiar with most of the links you sent. I found the book on Amazon and guess I will get it. I had been told that with the links I have, I didn't need it. But maybe there is more info as the book is the size of a small novel. Also, I found the book Growing Green: Animal-Free Organic Techniques on one of the links you sent. Maybe I will get that one too. I plan to grow some cover crops this fall. My husband has put his foot down on humanure. I *think* composting toilets are not/was not legal here. But, I have a friend who put a toilet seat on a five gallon bucket on his back porch and is composting outdoors. He lives more rural than I do and I have no porch and a very small house. I will probably try urine - DH won't even know... My soil is very sandy and lacks nutrients and is very high in phosphorous - off the scale, detrimental to the plants and not removable*. Before, I worked all my ammendments into the ground and lost them by the end of the season, having to start over each time. This is why I am trying the square foot method. It seems that lime is recommended a lot in veganic gardening. I have always been taught to NEVER use lime unless you have a test to back it up as it will ruin your crop and your soil if you have too much - it will take years to get it out of your soil. My tests have always shown no need for lime. The problem I am having is building nutrient rich soil NOW. I am using most of the materials listed in the links. But these are slow to act. A cover crop now means no food plants this spring and summer. The hardware stores/gardening centers here can't order " weird " things for me. I will look for a source of comfrey since I don't have any. The other problem is, like you, I have a very limited space for growing. A cover crop means I will have no space for growing food that season. But, I plan to try it anyway. The extension center here is no help. If it isn't conventional they try to talk you out of it. I do companion planting with herbs and other vegetables. I found a recommendation on one of the sites you listed for a peat alterative. That makes me feel a lot better. I'll look through the links again and listen to the podcast Jenn recommended. If anyone has a suggestion for what to put in my contaniners now for immediate use by the plants (or some containers for use in about 8 weeks), please let me know. (Here, it is time for putting some transplants out now. The rest go out in 8 weeks.) Thanks!!!!! Carrol ***I asked the extension center about planting buckwheat as a cover crop and then throwing it away rather than composting it or tilling it in. Buckwheat is supposed to take up a lot of phosphorous. The answer from the master gardener - " I don't know if that will work because I have never heard of buckwheat. " This is what I am dealing with. They aren't even allowed to hand out info on companion planting. That was about the time I quit gardening so I never follwed through. , chandelle <earthmother213 wrote: > > That is a tough one and something that I have struggled with as well. I > also love the square-foot method, and while our gardening is severely > limited while we're renting, we've always planned to have a homestead and > grow most of our own food. Here are some sites about " veganic " gardening > that might help you. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan_organic_gardening > > http://www.vegfamily.com/gardening/veganic-gardening.htm > > http://www.veganorganic.net/index.htm > > http://www.gentleworld.org/ > > There's also a book called " Veganic Gardening. " > > One thing that comes to mind is to post something in craigslist about anyone > in your area who uses a composting toilet. Or to buy one yourself. Then > you can have humanure. There are so many ways to amend the soil that don't > involve animal products. That being said, I have used eggshells from a > friend who has backyard chickens, and I also used vermiculture...I don't > really see anything wrong with worm compost, as the worms are just doing > what worms do. They live in the same soil where I grow stuff. I never till > and always shovel carefully and return worms to the soil when I'm finished > working in the area. Green mulching and cover crops are some of the best > ways to return fertility to poor soil. > > Good luck! > > Chandelle > > On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 1:34 PM, rtillmansmail <rtillmansmailwrote: > > > Hi all, > > I know some of you on this list garden. I have an ethical problem > > using manure and am hoping some of you can offer advice. > > > > I live where there is very poor soil. While ovo-lacto, I had the soil > > tested yearly and mixed in compost, composted manures and other > > ammendments. Still my gardens were always on the edge compared to the > > other states where I have lived. I haven't used any animal products > > in my gardens in over 10 years as I am now vegan. Now, I cannot grow > > enough in my soil to feed myself much alone my family of three. And, > > it is far less expensive to just purchase organic produce at the HFS. > > So, I gave it up about 5 years ago. > > > > I want to garden again for several reasons that are important to me. > > I plan to build raised beds this year and use " Mel's Mixture " from > > Square Foot Gardening. (Yes, I have problems with taking peat from > > wetlands but I am at such a loss.) I built one raised bed for my > > winter garden and the transplants never grew past 5 inches tall and > > the seeds never sprouted. (I live in FL so this shouldn't have > > happened. I had collard, kale, broccoli, cauliflower and other in my > > past winter gardens.) My friends using synthetic fertilizer have > > eaten from their winter gardens here. > > > > Mel's Mix does call for manure so I talked myself into using > > vermicompost (as well as some ammendments such as corn and green > > sand). I also built an in-ground worm composting box so the worms may > > leave if they wish (or if I don't feed them enough - they won't die). > > Vermicompost is supposed to be better than any of the other manures > > but I didn't see that it worked at all. We also compost leaves and > > other materials. > > > > I don't want to use manure but am wondering what to do. I have > > ordered the vegan fertilizer from Seeds of Change but it is a long > > term product and offers no nutrients up front (and I have already > > used some of the ingredients). I also will not use any synthetic > > fertilizers (Peters, Miracle Grow). I have kelp fertilizer. I know > > that as vegans, however strict, we must use some items with animal > > products to interact in the world. My computer for instance and tires > > on cars or mass transit vehicles and organic produce at the HFS. I am > > almost to the point of talking myself into using manure just when I > > build the beds and then using the vegan mixture and other ammendments > > and compost on a regular basis to try to keep the nutrient level in > > the soil high. But, I think justification based on " there is no other > > way " is a slippery slope. And, I am afraid that without finding the > > correct mixture of vegan ammendments, I will have to repeat the > > manure each spring. > > > > What do the vegan gardeners on this list do? > > > > Thanks, > > Carrol > > > > > > > > > > -- > " The demand for equal rights in every vocation of life is just and fair; > but, after all, the most vital right is the right to love and be loved. " > ~Emma Goldman > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Diane, I looked at the page briefly. I will spend more time looking at this product over the next week. Thanks, Carrol , Diane Bernard <dianesbernard wrote: > > Hi, I have put a link below about ORMUS. I have just started experimenting with it so I cannot give you personal experiences. I used it on my houseplants for the first time this morning and plan to use it in the garden this spring and summer. > Diane > > http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/pictures.pdf > > > > ________________________________ > rtillmansmail <rtillmansmail > > Monday, March 2, 2009 3:34:45 PM > Vegan Gardening > > > Hi all, > I know some of you on this list garden. I have an ethical problem > using manure and am hoping some of you can offer advice. > > I live where there is very poor soil. While ovo-lacto, I had the soil > tested yearly and mixed in compost, composted manures and other > ammendments. Still my gardens were always on the edge compared to the > other states where I have lived. I haven't used any animal products > in my gardens in over 10 years as I am now vegan. Now, I cannot grow > enough in my soil to feed myself much alone my family of three. And, > it is far less expensive to just purchase organic produce at the HFS. > So, I gave it up about 5 years ago. > > I want to garden again for several reasons that are important to me. > I plan to build raised beds this year and use " Mel's Mixture " from > Square Foot Gardening. (Yes, I have problems with taking peat from > wetlands but I am at such a loss.) I built one raised bed for my > winter garden and the transplants never grew past 5 inches tall and > the seeds never sprouted. (I live in FL so this shouldn't have > happened. I had collard, kale, broccoli, cauliflower and other in my > past winter gardens.) My friends using synthetic fertilizer have > eaten from their winter gardens here. > > Mel's Mix does call for manure so I talked myself into using > vermicompost (as well as some ammendments such as corn and green > sand). I also built an in-ground worm composting box so the worms may > leave if they wish (or if I don't feed them enough - they won't die). > Vermicompost is supposed to be better than any of the other manures > but I didn't see that it worked at all. We also compost leaves and > other materials. > > I don't want to use manure but am wondering what to do. I have > ordered the vegan fertilizer from Seeds of Change but it is a long > term product and offers no nutrients up front (and I have already > used some of the ingredients) . I also will not use any synthetic > fertilizers (Peters, Miracle Grow). I have kelp fertilizer. I know > that as vegans, however strict, we must use some items with animal > products to interact in the world. My computer for instance and tires > on cars or mass transit vehicles and organic produce at the HFS. I am > almost to the point of talking myself into using manure just when I > build the beds and then using the vegan mixture and other ammendments > and compost on a regular basis to try to keep the nutrient level in > the soil high. But, I think justification based on " there is no other > way " is a slippery slope. And, I am afraid that without finding the > correct mixture of vegan ammendments, I will have to repeat the > manure each spring. > > What do the vegan gardeners on this list do? > > Thanks, > Carrol > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Hi Carrol, Another idea would be to get some big tubs or other containers at a thrift shop or garage sale, and some potting soil. You can plant indoors early and have a head start on the season. Last year I had a lettuce mix indoors that I kept going for about six months. Robin --- On Mon, 3/2/09, rtillmansmail <rtillmansmail wrote: rtillmansmail <rtillmansmail Re: Vegan Gardening Monday, March 2, 2009, 6:49 PM Hi Chandelle, I remember you posting about building your box - was it last year or the year before? I am familiar with most of the links you sent. I found the book on Amazon and guess I will get it. I had been told that with the links I have, I didn't need it. But maybe there is more info as the book is the size of a small novel. Also, I found the book Growing Green: Animal-Free Organic Techniques on one of the links you sent. Maybe I will get that one too. I plan to grow some cover crops this fall. My husband has put his foot down on humanure. I *think* composting toilets are not/was not legal here. But, I have a friend who put a toilet seat on a five gallon bucket on his back porch and is composting outdoors. He lives more rural than I do and I have no porch and a very small house. I will probably try urine - DH won't even know... My soil is very sandy and lacks nutrients and is very high in phosphorous - off the scale, detrimental to the plants and not removable*. Before, I worked all my ammendments into the ground and lost them by the end of the season, having to start over each time. This is why I am trying the square foot method. It seems that lime is recommended a lot in veganic gardening. I have always been taught to NEVER use lime unless you have a test to back it up as it will ruin your crop and your soil if you have too much - it will take years to get it out of your soil. My tests have always shown no need for lime. The problem I am having is building nutrient rich soil NOW. I am using most of the materials listed in the links. But these are slow to act. A cover crop now means no food plants this spring and summer. The hardware stores/gardening centers here can't order " weird " things for me. I will look for a source of comfrey since I don't have any. The other problem is, like you, I have a very limited space for growing. A cover crop means I will have no space for growing food that season. But, I plan to try it anyway. The extension center here is no help. If it isn't conventional they try to talk you out of it. I do companion planting with herbs and other vegetables. I found a recommendation on one of the sites you listed for a peat alterative. That makes me feel a lot better. I'll look through the links again and listen to the podcast Jenn recommended. If anyone has a suggestion for what to put in my contaniners now for immediate use by the plants (or some containers for use in about 8 weeks), please let me know. (Here, it is time for putting some transplants out now. The rest go out in 8 weeks.) Thanks!!!!! Carrol ***I asked the extension center about planting buckwheat as a cover crop and then throwing it away rather than composting it or tilling it in. Buckwheat is supposed to take up a lot of phosphorous. The answer from the master gardener - " I don't know if that will work because I have never heard of buckwheat. " This is what I am dealing with. They aren't even allowed to hand out info on companion planting. That was about the time I quit gardening so I never follwed through. @gro ups.com, chandelle <earthmother213@ ...> wrote: > > That is a tough one and something that I have struggled with as well. I > also love the square-foot method, and while our gardening is severely > limited while we're renting, we've always planned to have a homestead and > grow most of our own food. Here are some sites about " veganic " gardening > that might help you. > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Vegan_organic_ gardening > > http://www.vegfamil y.com/gardening/ veganic-gardenin g.htm > > http://www.veganorg anic.net/ index.htm > > http://www.gentlewo rld.org/ > > There's also a book called " Veganic Gardening. " > > One thing that comes to mind is to post something in craigslist about anyone > in your area who uses a composting toilet. Or to buy one yourself. Then > you can have humanure. There are so many ways to amend the soil that don't > involve animal products. That being said, I have used eggshells from a > friend who has backyard chickens, and I also used vermiculture. ..I don't > really see anything wrong with worm compost, as the worms are just doing > what worms do. They live in the same soil where I grow stuff. I never till > and always shovel carefully and return worms to the soil when I'm finished > working in the area. Green mulching and cover crops are some of the best > ways to return fertility to poor soil. > > Good luck! > > Chandelle > > On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 1:34 PM, rtillmansmail <rtillmansmail@ ...>wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I know some of you on this list garden. I have an ethical problem > > using manure and am hoping some of you can offer advice. > > > > I live where there is very poor soil. While ovo-lacto, I had the soil > > tested yearly and mixed in compost, composted manures and other > > ammendments. Still my gardens were always on the edge compared to the > > other states where I have lived. I haven't used any animal products > > in my gardens in over 10 years as I am now vegan. Now, I cannot grow > > enough in my soil to feed myself much alone my family of three. And, > > it is far less expensive to just purchase organic produce at the HFS. > > So, I gave it up about 5 years ago. > > > > I want to garden again for several reasons that are important to me. > > I plan to build raised beds this year and use " Mel's Mixture " from > > Square Foot Gardening. (Yes, I have problems with taking peat from > > wetlands but I am at such a loss.) I built one raised bed for my > > winter garden and the transplants never grew past 5 inches tall and > > the seeds never sprouted. (I live in FL so this shouldn't have > > happened. I had collard, kale, broccoli, cauliflower and other in my > > past winter gardens.) My friends using synthetic fertilizer have > > eaten from their winter gardens here. > > > > Mel's Mix does call for manure so I talked myself into using > > vermicompost (as well as some ammendments such as corn and green > > sand). I also built an in-ground worm composting box so the worms may > > leave if they wish (or if I don't feed them enough - they won't die). > > Vermicompost is supposed to be better than any of the other manures > > but I didn't see that it worked at all. We also compost leaves and > > other materials. > > > > I don't want to use manure but am wondering what to do. I have > > ordered the vegan fertilizer from Seeds of Change but it is a long > > term product and offers no nutrients up front (and I have already > > used some of the ingredients) . I also will not use any synthetic > > fertilizers (Peters, Miracle Grow). I have kelp fertilizer. I know > > that as vegans, however strict, we must use some items with animal > > products to interact in the world. My computer for instance and tires > > on cars or mass transit vehicles and organic produce at the HFS. I am > > almost to the point of talking myself into using manure just when I > > build the beds and then using the vegan mixture and other ammendments > > and compost on a regular basis to try to keep the nutrient level in > > the soil high. But, I think justification based on " there is no other > > way " is a slippery slope. And, I am afraid that without finding the > > correct mixture of vegan ammendments, I will have to repeat the > > manure each spring. > > > > What do the vegan gardeners on this list do? > > > > Thanks, > > Carrol > > > > > > > > > > -- > " The demand for equal rights in every vocation of life is just and fair; > but, after all, the most vital right is the right to love and be loved. " > ~Emma Goldman > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Hi Robin, We have done this in the past and have built above ground beds this year. I have a little greenhouse and use my kitchen as well for starting transplants. The problem is that I am gardening in very sandy soil. So this year, rather than ammend the soil, we made our own " soiless mix " for the containers. It didn't seem to provide enough nutrients for the growth of transplants in my winter garden. You're right, manure can carry germs that would be unhealthful to touch or put in your garden. Think e.coli on the spinach a few years ago. To use manure in a garden, it should be composted for 1 - 2 years. Thre are regulations on this for organic produce and commercial manure. Still, I think there is always a little room for worry there. Bacteria and viruses evolve and adapt and we won't know what may linger in the manure until after people become ill. Robin , robin koloms <rkoloms wrote: > > Hi Carrol, > > Another idea would be to get some big tubs or other containers at a thrift shop or garage sale, and some potting soil. You can plant indoors early and have a head start on the season. Last year I had a lettuce mix indoors that I kept going for about six months. > > Robin > > --- On Mon, 3/2/09, rtillmansmail <rtillmansmail wrote: > > rtillmansmail <rtillmansmail > Re: Vegan Gardening > > Monday, March 2, 2009, 6:49 PM Hi Chandelle, > I remember you posting about building your box - was it last year or > the year before? > > I am familiar with most of the links you sent. I found the book on > Amazon and guess I will get it. I had been told that with the links I > have, I didn't need it. But maybe there is more info as the book is > the size of a small novel. Also, I found the book Growing Green: > Animal-Free Organic Techniques on one of the links you sent. Maybe I > will get that one too. > > I plan to grow some cover crops this fall. My husband has put his > foot down on humanure. I *think* composting toilets are not/was not > legal here. But, I have a friend who put a toilet seat on a five > gallon bucket on his back porch and is composting outdoors. He lives > more rural than I do and I have no porch and a very small house. I > will probably try urine - DH won't even know... > > My soil is very sandy and lacks nutrients and is very high in > phosphorous - off the scale, detrimental to the plants and not > removable*. Before, I worked all my ammendments into the ground and > lost them by the end of the season, having to start over each time. > This is why I am trying the square foot method. It seems that lime > is recommended a lot in veganic gardening. I have always been taught > to NEVER use lime unless you have a test to back it up as it will > ruin your crop and your soil if you have too much - it will take > years to get it out of your soil. My tests have always shown no need > for lime. > > The problem I am having is building nutrient rich soil NOW. I am > using most of the materials listed in the links. But these are slow > to act. A cover crop now means no food plants this spring and summer. > The hardware stores/gardening centers here can't order " weird " things > for me. I will look for a source of comfrey since I don't have any. > The other problem is, like you, I have a very limited space for > growing. A cover crop means I will have no space for growing food > that season. But, I plan to try it anyway. The extension center here > is no help. If it isn't conventional they try to talk you out of it. > > I do companion planting with herbs and other vegetables. I found a > recommendation on one of the sites you listed for a peat alterative. > That makes me feel a lot better. > > I'll look through the links again and listen to the podcast Jenn > recommended. If anyone has a suggestion for what to put in my > contaniners now for immediate use by the plants (or some containers > for use in about 8 weeks), please let me know. (Here, it is time for > putting some transplants out now. The rest go out in 8 weeks.) > > Thanks!!!!! > Carrol > > ***I asked the extension center about planting buckwheat as a cover > crop and then throwing it away rather than composting it or tilling > it in. Buckwheat is supposed to take up a lot of phosphorous. The > answer from the master gardener - " I don't know if that will work > because I have never heard of buckwheat. " This is what I am dealing > with. They aren't even allowed to hand out info on companion > planting. That was about the time I quit gardening so I never follwed > through. > > @gro ups.com, chandelle <earthmother213@ ...> > wrote: > > > > That is a tough one and something that I have struggled with as > well. I > > also love the square-foot method, and while our gardening is > severely > > limited while we're renting, we've always planned to have a > homestead and > > grow most of our own food. Here are some sites about " veganic " > gardening > > that might help you. > > > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Vegan_organic_ gardening > > > > http://www.vegfamil y.com/gardening/ veganic-gardenin g.htm > > > > http://www.veganorg anic.net/ index.htm > > > > http://www.gentlewo rld.org/ > > > > There's also a book called " Veganic Gardening. " > > > > One thing that comes to mind is to post something in craigslist > about anyone > > in your area who uses a composting toilet. Or to buy one > yourself. Then > > you can have humanure. There are so many ways to amend the soil > that don't > > involve animal products. That being said, I have used eggshells > from a > > friend who has backyard chickens, and I also used vermiculture. ..I > don't > > really see anything wrong with worm compost, as the worms are just > doing > > what worms do. They live in the same soil where I grow stuff. I > never till > > and always shovel carefully and return worms to the soil when I'm > finished > > working in the area. Green mulching and cover crops are some of > the best > > ways to return fertility to poor soil. > > > > Good luck! > > > > Chandelle > > > > On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 1:34 PM, rtillmansmail > <rtillmansmail@ ...>wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > I know some of you on this list garden. I have an ethical problem > > > using manure and am hoping some of you can offer advice. > > > > > > I live where there is very poor soil. While ovo-lacto, I had the > soil > > > tested yearly and mixed in compost, composted manures and other > > > ammendments. Still my gardens were always on the edge compared to > the > > > other states where I have lived. I haven't used any animal > products > > > in my gardens in over 10 years as I am now vegan. Now, I cannot > grow > > > enough in my soil to feed myself much alone my family of three. > And, > > > it is far less expensive to just purchase organic produce at the > HFS. > > > So, I gave it up about 5 years ago. > > > > > > I want to garden again for several reasons that are important to > me. > > > I plan to build raised beds this year and use " Mel's Mixture " from > > > Square Foot Gardening. (Yes, I have problems with taking peat from > > > wetlands but I am at such a loss.) I built one raised bed for my > > > winter garden and the transplants never grew past 5 inches tall > and > > > the seeds never sprouted. (I live in FL so this shouldn't have > > > happened. I had collard, kale, broccoli, cauliflower and other in > my > > > past winter gardens.) My friends using synthetic fertilizer have > > > eaten from their winter gardens here. > > > > > > Mel's Mix does call for manure so I talked myself into using > > > vermicompost (as well as some ammendments such as corn and green > > > sand). I also built an in-ground worm composting box so the worms > may > > > leave if they wish (or if I don't feed them enough - they won't > die). > > > Vermicompost is supposed to be better than any of the other > manures > > > but I didn't see that it worked at all. We also compost leaves and > > > other materials. > > > > > > I don't want to use manure but am wondering what to do. I have > > > ordered the vegan fertilizer from Seeds of Change but it is a long > > > term product and offers no nutrients up front (and I have already > > > used some of the ingredients) . I also will not use any synthetic > > > fertilizers (Peters, Miracle Grow). I have kelp fertilizer. I know > > > that as vegans, however strict, we must use some items with animal > > > products to interact in the world. My computer for instance and > tires > > > on cars or mass transit vehicles and organic produce at the HFS. > I am > > > almost to the point of talking myself into using manure just when > I > > > build the beds and then using the vegan mixture and other > ammendments > > > and compost on a regular basis to try to keep the nutrient level > in > > > the soil high. But, I think justification based on " there is no > other > > > way " is a slippery slope. And, I am afraid that without finding > the > > > correct mixture of vegan ammendments, I will have to repeat the > > > manure each spring. > > > > > > What do the vegan gardeners on this list do? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Carrol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > " The demand for equal rights in every vocation of life is just and > fair; > > but, after all, the most vital right is the right to love and be > loved. " > > ~Emma Goldman > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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