Guest guest Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 Dear Sir, Thanks for your reply and all the interesting (purely statistical) numbers you provided! First of all I am very happy for you and the people in the US that the number of cases are that less! As you had mentioned " In the U.S., almost all dogs are confined, rarely encountering unfamiliar people " .....I guess you were talking of only the well to do localities right? Or else may be this article *http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/0821_030821_straydogs.html *<http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/0821_030821_straydogs.html>reg\ arding stray dog cases is probably not true. I visit the US quite often on work and I see that there is a very very distinct demarcation between the poor areas where probably we have these stray cases to the stray dog free zone in the economically well off areas. So the confined dogs are the pets found in economically well off zones correct? I am sure this is a difference you have seen here in India that we have a very integrated society with not such distinct demarcation of localities. So the question of roaming stray dogs is far greater than what you probably experience in the US. With due respects, Sir I think that statistical data you have given of 1 dog to every 4 humans in the US must have been taken in one of such location as mentioned in the link and the numbers of 1 for every 42 humans in India in almost all areas... well that definitly might be true. But the thing to be noted here is that 1 for 4 is a localized problem there in the US, cutailed to that locality (smaller poorer areas with a higher population density) as opposed to 1 for 42 here in India which is a more widespread issue! And therefore, I am sorry to say, but those numbers are not comparable! And I am not sure if there has been an effort to study the behavioural differences of dogs based on the socio economic conditions they live in....because in the poorer areas of the US, attacks on humans by dogs in packs or otherwise is often recorded. I have come across various studies done on stray dogs wherein this factor is also considered and proved that it influenes their behaviour. So I think the figures pointed out by, like you called, " the statistically illiterate and hydrophobic fear mongers " here of a 25000 dog bite cases (on an average) in a city alone remains a very serious concern and something that cannot be downplayed by a pure mathematical calculation; claiming of it being lesser than an absurb figure arrived using a calculator. But this is not the time for us to be making statistical comparisons of 2 different nations of probably slightly different economic standards! It is time for us to act on this now and effectively. Else dogs will be wiped out mercilessly. The cases I have mentioned till now is restricted to Bangalore city alone. There are numerous cases happening in the other districts in the state like in every other state by the day. For example a couple of weeks ago 2 kids were killed in Belgaum district in Karnataka. Probably it did not make it into the news, but this is a more widespread problem that cannot be tackled with a number game alone. I am a staunch supporter of the ABC program myself that has been quite effectively driven in the city by various organizations and was further impressed by the numbers after the recent AFA summit at Chennai. Like my fellow activists, I will also be at the forefront supporting the ABC program as opposed to the plans of culling that the government here has! But then, away from the stats, practically, without again going into numbers, again, I am requesting people like you to suggest what can be done as of NOW, how do we convince the civic authorities, how do we pacify the concerned parents? Life is a harder struggle than merely gathering sporadic countings! All I am concerned is how the dogs can be saved from being culled as of now, basically give them a second chance; else it will cost many a man's friend's lives! As I had suggested earlier do you people think that relocating the dogs (who would otherwise be culled) to locations outside the city be a feasible solution? Or if there is any other, please let us know! We who look upto people like you for answers are eager to hear on a work around on this! Thanks in advance, Pablo On 3/3/07, Merritt Clifton <anmlpepl wrote: > > >please suggest something wherein we dont have 25000 cases of dog > >bites in a city alone in a year. > > Raw data is only half of a statistic. The other half is context. > > Suppose there are 25,000 dog bites per year in Bangalore. > > About five years ago I discovered by comparing Indian & U.S. > public health records that our ratios of dog bites requiring hospital > treatment were identical, at 1 per 63 humans per year. > > That was an astounding discovery, because in India almost > all dogs run free, with thousands of opportunities to bite people > every day. Further, India is a rabies-endemic nation, where any > dog bite that breaks the skin requires hospital treatment. > > In the U.S., almost all dogs are confined, rarely > encountering unfamiliar people, and rabies is so rare that the > number of human cases per year can be counted on the fingers of one > hand. > > Unfortunately, many of our dogs are very poorly socialized, > through lack of frequent proximity to strangers, and many of our > dogs are abnormally reactive. About 5% of the dogs in the U.S. are > pit bull terriers and their close mixes, who are responsible for > approximately half of the actuarial risk associated with all dogs. > About 1% are Rottweilers, who are statistically even more dangerous, > being responsible for nearly 25% of the actuarial risk from all dogs. > > Projecting the figure of 1 bite requiring hospital treatment > per 63 humans to the present population of Bangalore, about six > million, one finds that the expected number of dog bites requiring > hospital treatment each year should be 95,238. > > Somehow Bangalore is managing to be 70,000 dog bites per year > below the Indian and U.S. norms . > > There are two ways to look at this. One is that you need to > recruit a whole lot more dangerous dogs, to get up to quota. There > are plenty of pit bull and Rottweiler breeders in the U.S. who would > cheerfully assist. > > The other is to realize that regardless of whatever any > statistical illiterate or hydrophobic fear mongers may make of the > 25,000 dog bites per year occurring in Bangalore, it is actually > such an impressively low number as to testify most eloquently for the > preventive success of the Bangalore ABC programs. > > There is, by the way, a further statistical consideration > to introduce in comparing the U.S. and Indian dog bite data. The > U.S. presently has about 70 million dogs, or one per 4.3 humans. > India, according to the World Health Organization, now has 26 > million dogs, or one per 42.3 humans. > > This in itself indicates the remarkable success of the ABC > programs, nationwide, because as recently as 1997 the apparent > Indian dogs to humans ratio was 1 to 10, and this ratio can still be > seen in many places where ABC programs are not operating. Where ABC > is successful, there are now as many as 160 humans per dog. > > In other words, the U.S. has 10 times as many dogs relative > to humans as India--which suggests that if exposure opportunities > were equal, and if the risk of rabies in both nations also happened > to be equal, the U.S. should have 10 times as many bites per capita > requiring hospital treatment. > > There is actually a way we can do that comparison: we can > subtract out of the Indian total the number of bites in which the > sole reason for hospital treatment is the need to receive > post-exposure anti-rabies vaccination. > > Since this is apparently well over 90% of all the bites > reported to Indian hospitals, the U.S. apparently does have at least > 10 times as many dog attacks per capita doing actual bodily injury. > > > -- > Merritt Clifton > Editor, ANIMAL PEOPLE > P.O. Box 960 > Clinton, WA 98236 > > Telephone: 360-579-2505 > Fax: 360-579-2575 > E-mail: anmlpepl > Web: www.animalpeoplenews.org > > [ANIMAL PEOPLE is the leading independent newspaper providing > original investigative coverage of animal protection worldwide, > founded in 1992. Our readership of 30,000-plus includes the > decision-makers at more than 10,000 animal protection organizations. > We have no alignment or affiliation with any other entity. $24/year; > for free sample, send address.] > -- WOCON: http://groups.google.co.inwocon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 >As you had mentioned " In the U.S., almost all dogs are confined, >rarely encountering unfamiliar people " .....I guess you were talking >of only the well to do localities right? Or else may be this article ><http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/0821_030821_straydogs.html> >http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/0821_030821_straydogs.html >regarding stray dog cases is probably not true. That is correct: the article is sensationalized crap. The sole U.S. source for the author, Maryann Mott, was my longtime friend Randy Grim, of Stray Rescue in St. Louis. Randy's organization as of 2003 had handled about 5,000 dogs in 12 years, of whom not even 10% were feral. Several of Randy's most dedicated volunteers are also longtime friends. I just spent an hour on the telephone with one of them in connection with finding homes for the personal pets of a rescuer who was killed in a car crash. As a demonstration of the inaccuracy of Mott's article, consider that the U.S. average for animal control dog killing is presently about 8 dogs per thousand human beings, about half of all dogs captured or surrendered to animal control departments and humane societies. Feral dogs are practically always killed, because conventional belief is that they cannot be socialized for adoption. (Randy disagrees; so do I.) Of the cities where Mott alleged that there are feral dog populations, St. Louis shelters currently kill just about exactly 8 dogs per 1,000 humans; Cleveland shelters also kill about 8; Pittsburgh shelters kill under 5; Los Angeles shelters kill about 2; New York shelters kill under 2. The Santa Fe shelters kill about 19, which is among the worst records in the western part of the U.S., exceeded only by several Native American reservations (as Mott mentioned); but it is worth noting that the total human population of all Native American reservations combined is just under two million, or .006% of the total U.S. population. Yes, there is a problem on several major reservations, but it is localized and specific to them. There is a small feral dog population in St. Louis, and the other cities that Randy Grim mentioned, but not in areas where very many people of any level of income live. In St. Louis, the feral dog population exists in an area of sprawling abandoned former industrial buildings. I have been there. The nearest occupied housing is several miles away. Dogfighters go there to fight dogs in private and isolation. Some of the dogs are dumped afterward or escape. Some breed--but mostly Randy and his volunteers capture them before they do, and before they have much opportunity to go feral. The definition of " feral " is in itself questionable. While these abandoned dogs are obliged to fend for themselves, and some do survive, most have been bred and raised either by dogfighters or in homes, from which they were stolen by dogfighters for use as " bait dogs, " in fighting dog training. The dogs involved are mostly pit bull terriers and pit bull mixes, who--if they are not promptly captured--lose their pit bull characteristics in about two generations, according to Randy. I have written about his work many times. Let me point out another of Mott's gross misrepresentations-- >A survey by the National Agricultural Statistics Service in 1999 >found that feral dogs were partly responsible for killing cows, >sheep, and goats worth about U.S. 37 million dollars. This statistic also includes livestock killed by coyotes, the North American cousin of the jackal. The U.S. domestic dog population and the coyote population are about equal, at around 70 million. This statistic also includes livestock killed by pumas (much like the Indian panther), wolves, and many other native predators--and most of the livestock killed by dogs are killed by owned pets who escape and go on a rampage on neighbors' property. Feral dogs are such a small component of the total that most USDA Animal Services trappers who respond to livestock killings claim they have never encountered one, according to their annual reports of animals captured and killed (which is part of the basis for their pay. They have no reason to not report any numbers.) >So the confined dogs are the pets found in economically well off >zones correct? Incorrect. Dead wrong. The major difference between how dogs are kept in affluent areas and in poor areas is that in affluent areas most dogs are allowed to run loose in fenced yards. In poor areas, they are more likely to be chained--which increases their territoriality and their risk of killing or maiming someone who gets too close. In fact, according to a Center for Disease Control & Prevention study by Jeffrey Sachs, published in 1997, chained dogs are responsible for 29% of the U.S. dog attack fatalities involving children. This percentage may be even higher now, because of the recent proliferation of pit bull terriers, who are particularly often kept on chains, deliberately to make them more dangerous. Sometimes this is done by dogfighters, sometimes by people who think having a fierce dog will protect themselves and their families--but in fact, dog attacks occur most often to members of the dogs' own households, especially attacks involving pit bull terriers. >With due respects, Sir I think that statistical data you have given >of 1 dog to every 4 humans in the US must have been taken in one of >such location This is incorrect. There are 300 million human beings in the U.S., who are presently purchasing pet food for 70 million dogs and 90 million cats. You may do the math yourself. The U.S. pet population figures have been tracked annually at least since 1928, and are presently compiled by at least four different organizations: the Pet Product Manufacturers Association, the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council, the American Animal Hospital Association, and the American Veterinary Medical Association. The four organizations conduct three separate annual surveys (the first two mentioned collaborate). At times their numbers have diverged slightly, but right now they are in agreement. >There are numerous cases happening in the other districts in the >state like in every other state by the day. For example a couple of >weeks ago 2 kids were killed in Belgaum district in Karnataka. Again, incidents must be understood in context. From January 1, 2007 to March 1, 2007, owned pet dogs killed seven people in the U.S., five of them children. Pit bull terriers kiled three people; Rottweilers killed two. From February 28, 2006 to March 1, 2007, owned pet dogs killed 38 people in the U.S., of whom pit bull terriers killed 17; Rottweilers killed eight. All of these were dogs who were normally kept confined in some manner. The last fatal attack by feral dogs in the U.S. was the Rodney McAllister case in St. Louis in 2002, which Maryann Mott mentioned, and since the dogs in that case were pit bulls, they obviously were not born feral. The last fatal attack by feral dogs anywhere in North America before that one involved escaped huskies in the Canadian North, in the late 1990s. If you do in fact visit the U.S. often, as you claim, your risk of being killed or maimed by a dog during one of your visits is much greater than your risk of being injured by a street dog anywhere in India, even if you walk or jog past rows of butcher shops with dogs all around them, as I recently did in Bangalore and three other major Indian cities, and have done in the past in other major Indian cities. Incidentally, the total number of pet dog attacks in the U.S. that resulted in death or permanent disfigurement during the past 12 months (dogs involved multiplied by victims) was 218, including 93 child victims and 67 adult victims, with 193 people permanently injured, beyond the 38 who were killed. -- Merritt Clifton Editor, ANIMAL PEOPLE P.O. Box 960 Clinton, WA 98236 Telephone: 360-579-2505 Fax: 360-579-2575 E-mail: anmlpepl Web: www.animalpeoplenews.org [ANIMAL PEOPLE is the leading independent newspaper providing original investigative coverage of animal protection worldwide, founded in 1992. Our readership of 30,000-plus includes the decision-makers at more than 10,000 animal protection organizations. We have no alignment or affiliation with any other entity. $24/year; for free sample, send address.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 First of all am sorry to hear about your friend's death! May his soul rest in peace! Well frankly am concerned to know that National geographic news do also come up with 'sensationalized crap'. So lets set that aside! Or should we? But then you are sure that all the other numbers you have given thereafter are true by the word, right? Ok no harm even if it were to be another inaccurate or sensationalized piece of information gathered as the concern I had raised was over stray dog attacks, not wherein some body here had a not-so-domestic dog (I think it would be inappropriate to use other adjectives) at home which killed people at home/outside. " There are 300 million human beings in the U.S., who are presently purchasing pet food for 70 million dogs and 90 million cats. " Your focus seems to have shifted off to pets. I am a little lost on this! I thought we were looking at a work around for stray dogs! We are talking presently of a population of 56,154 stray dogs in Bangalore; reduced from a 70000 plus population, a couple of years ago, all thanks to the very effective ABC program that is being conducted in the city. So the question here and has always been on how to do something about the present situation, On how to diffuse the situation of man versus stray dogs! " In fact, according to a Center for Disease Control & Prevention study by Jeffrey Sachs, published in 1997, chained dogs are responsible for 29% of the U.S. dog attack fatalities involving children. This percentage may be even higher now, " And this really in a way made me feel good about the state of affairs here, although sad for the children there and so unwise of their parents, but mainly because here we are atleast not having much of a concern on pets at home and wisely so! Sir, you are talking of Pit bulls and Rottweilers – they are known to be aggressive and are less easier to completely domesticate. This is a known fact and therefore your comparison with the (in comparison) docile stray dog here seems pointless atleast in the present context! To bring the focus back to the issue – We are talking of the stray dog issue, in Bangalore as of now and in India in general; since you like numbers- India has recorded the highest population of stray dog cases, the highest number of dog bite cases and the highest cases of rabies related deaths in the world. I know that there are other factors related to the deaths (immediate treatment/ cost etc) but one mainly gets rabies only when bitten correct? So let us not get lost in the number game anymore and focus on this issue! It has been ordered to cull the dogs here and therefore I had raised concern on what would experts like you suggest on this, what can we as activists do other than demonstrations; because the public outrage/ mis understanding against the poor canines are at its peak currently. So its time for immediate action and action that the public and the government is willing to consider! Kindly do not compare stats of the US with that of India, with due respects, it just doesn't work that way! There are hundreds of other factors that come into play on everything here! Please please focus on the situation Sir- >> Kids are getting killed, people are getting bitten in thousands every month! Not by home bred Pit bulls or Rottweilers but by our friend on the street! >> Although you, I and everyone here are convinced that ABC program will reduce the numbers and with it the dog bites, the public is not willing to buy that. They cant wait for another 2 years so that we can prove them with numbers again. They are pushing the civic authorities to have the cleared off the streets >> The civic authorities are going to adopt the short cut – culling, if they do not address this issue right away; they have a lot to loose if the public rage lingers on. I have lived in Bangalore for the past 25 years and have also been fortunate not to be bitten/ mauled or maimed by any of my canine friends on the street or at any home just like you have been on your, as you claim, only occasional visits to Bangalore or any other major city here in India and will pray you always have a pleasant stay when ever you are here! But please remember that life for people living here is more than an occasional stroll on the streets here and life for my friends on the streets will change for ever if we dont speak up or act on their behalf Hoping that you would be the angel for them and come up with a practical suggestion in this present circumstance! Thanks in advance, Pablo On 3/4/07, Merritt Clifton <anmlpepl wrote: > > As you had mentioned " In the U.S., almost all dogs are confined, rarely > encountering unfamiliar people " .....I guess you were talking of only the > well to do localities right? Or else may be this article * > http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/0821_030821_straydogs.html > *<http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/0821_030821_straydogs.html>reg\ arding stray dog cases is probably not true. > > > > > That is correct: the article is sensationalized crap. > > > The sole U.S. source for the author, Maryann Mott, was my > longtime friend Randy Grim, of Stray Rescue in St. Louis. Randy's > organization as of 2003 had handled about 5,000 dogs in 12 years, of whom > not even 10% were feral. > > > Several of Randy's most dedicated volunteers are also longtime > friends. I just spent an hour on the telephone with one of them in > connection with finding homes for the personal pets of a rescuer who was > killed in a car crash. > > > As a demonstration of the inaccuracy of Mott's article, consider > that the U.S. average for animal control dog killing is presently about 8 > dogs per thousand human beings, about half of all dogs captured or > surrendered to animal control departments and humane societies. > > > Feral dogs are practically always killed, because conventional > belief is that they cannot be socialized for adoption. (Randy disagrees; > so do I.) > > > Of the cities where Mott alleged that there are feral dog > populations, St. Louis shelters currently kill just about exactly 8 dogs > per 1,000 humans; Cleveland shelters also kill about 8; Pittsburgh > shelters kill under 5; Los Angeles shelters kill about 2; New York > shelters kill under 2. > > > The Santa Fe shelters kill about 19, which is among the worst > records in the western part of the U.S., exceeded only by several Native > American reservations (as Mott mentioned); but it is worth noting that the > total human population of all Native American reservations combined is just > under two million, or .006% of the total U.S. population. > > > Yes, there is a problem on several major reservations, but it is > localized and specific to them. > > > There is a small feral dog population in St. Louis, and the other > cities that Randy Grim mentioned, but not in areas where very many people > of any level of income live. In St. Louis, the feral dog population exists > in an area of sprawling abandoned former industrial buildings. I have been > there. The nearest occupied housing is several miles away. > > > Dogfighters go there to fight dogs in private and isolation. Some > of the dogs are dumped afterward or escape. Some breed--but mostly Randy > and his volunteers capture them before they do, and before they have much > opportunity to go feral. > > > The definition of " feral " is in itself questionable. While these > abandoned dogs are obliged to fend for themselves, and some do survive, > most have been bred and raised either by dogfighters or in homes, from > which they were stolen by dogfighters for use as " bait dogs, " in fighting > dog training. > > > The dogs involved are mostly pit bull terriers and pit bull > mixes, who--if they are not promptly captured--lose their pit bull > characteristics in about two generations, according to Randy. I have > written about his work many times. > > > Let me point out another of Mott's gross misrepresentations-- > > > > A survey by the National Agricultural Statistics Service in 1999 found > that feral dogs were partly responsible for killing cows, sheep, and goats > worth about U.S. 37 million dollars. > > > > This statistic also includes livestock killed by coyotes, the > North American cousin of the jackal. The U.S. domestic dog population and > the coyote population are about equal, at around 70 million. > > > This statistic also includes livestock killed by pumas (much like > the Indian panther), wolves, and many other native predators--and most of > the livestock killed by dogs are killed by owned pets who escape and go on a > rampage on neighbors' property. > > > Feral dogs are such a small component of the total that most USDA > Animal Services trappers who respond to livestock killings claim they have > never encountered one, according to their annual reports of animals > captured and killed (which is part of the basis for their pay. They have no > reason to not report any numbers.) > > > > > > So the confined dogs are the pets found in economically well off zones > correct? > > > > Incorrect. Dead wrong. > > > The major difference between how dogs are kept in affluent areas > and in poor areas is that in affluent areas most dogs are allowed to run > loose in fenced yards. In poor areas, they are more likely to be > chained--which increases their territoriality and their risk of killing or > maiming someone who gets too close. > > > In fact, according to a Center for Disease Control & Prevention > study by Jeffrey Sachs, published in 1997, chained dogs are responsible > for 29% of the U.S. dog attack fatalities involving children. > > > This percentage may be even higher now, because of the recent > proliferation of pit bull terriers, who are particularly often kept on > chains, deliberately to make them more dangerous. > > > Sometimes this is done by dogfighters, sometimes by people who > think having a fierce dog will protect themselves and their families--but in > fact, dog attacks occur most often to members of the dogs' own households, > especially attacks involving pit bull terriers. > > > > > > With due respects, Sir I think that statistical data you have given of 1 > dog to every 4 humans in the US must have been taken in one of such location > > > > This is incorrect. There are 300 million human beings in the U.S., > who are presently purchasing pet food for 70 million dogs and 90 million > cats. > > > You may do the math yourself. > > > The U.S. pet population figures have been tracked annually at > least since 1928, and are presently compiled by at least four different > organizations: the Pet Product Manufacturers Association, the Pet Industry > Joint Advisory Council, the American Animal Hospital Association, and the > American Veterinary Medical Association. The four organizations conduct > three separate annual surveys (the first two mentioned collaborate). At > times their numbers have diverged slightly, but right now they are in > agreement. > > > > > > There are numerous cases happening in the other districts in the state > like in every other state by the day. For example a couple of weeks ago 2 > kids were killed in Belgaum district in Karnataka. > > > > Again, incidents must be understood in context. > > > From January 1, 2007 to March 1, 2007, owned pet dogs killed > seven people in the U.S., five of them children. Pit bull terriers kiled > three people; Rottweilers killed two. > > > From February 28, 2006 to March 1, 2007, owned pet dogs killed > 38 people in the U.S., of whom pit bull terriers killed 17; Rottweilers > killed eight. > > > All of these were dogs who were normally kept confined in some > manner. The last fatal attack by feral dogs in the U.S. was the Rodney > McAllister case in St. Louis in 2002, which Maryann Mott mentioned, and > since the dogs in that case were pit bulls, they obviously were not born > feral. The last fatal attack by feral dogs anywhere in North America before > that one involved escaped huskies in the Canadian North, in the late 1990s. > > > If you do in fact visit the U.S. often, as you claim, your risk > of being killed or maimed by a dog during one of your visits is much greater > than your risk of being injured by a street dog anywhere in India, even if > you walk or jog past rows of butcher shops with dogs all around them, as I > recently did in Bangalore and three other major Indian cities, and have > done in the past in other major Indian cities. > > > Incidentally, the total number of pet dog attacks in the U.S. > that resulted in death or permanent disfigurement during the past 12 months > (dogs involved multiplied by victims) was 218, including 93 child victims > and 67 adult victims, with 193 people permanently injured, beyond the 38 > who were killed. > > > > > > -- > > Merritt Clifton > Editor, ANIMAL PEOPLE > P.O. Box 960 > Clinton, WA 98236 > > Telephone: 360-579-2505 > Fax: 360-579-2575 > E-mail: anmlpepl > Web: www.animalpeoplenews.org > > [ANIMAL PEOPLE is the leading independent newspaper providing original > investigative coverage of animal protection worldwide, founded in 1992. > Our readership of 30,000-plus includes the decision-makers at more than > 10,000 animal protection organizations. We have no alignment or affiliation > with any other entity. $24/year; for free sample, send address.] > -- WOCON: http://groups.google.co.inwocon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 >Well frankly am concerned to know that National geographic news do >also come up with 'sensationalized crap'. They always did. Back when they started, in the early days of printed photography, they were the one easily accessible publication known for frequently printing photographs of bare-breasted women, all in the name of educating school-aged young men (their primary audience) about the cultures of Africa, Asia, and Latin America. > So lets set that aside! Or should we? But then you are sure that >all the other numbers you have given thereafter are true by the >word, right? I have been collecting, compiling, & analyzing data in many categories relevant to animal protection for nearly 30 years, publishing my findings for the past 15 years for an audience including the key decision makers at nearly 11,000 animal protection organizations worldwide. This exposes my work to a most rigorous peer review, on an ongoing basis. >>There are 300 million human beings in the U.S., who are presently >>purchasing pet food for 70 million dogs and 90 million cats. " > >Your focus seems to have shifted off to pets. I am a little lost on >this! I thought we were looking at a work around for stray dogs! The issue is dog attacks, including which dogs attack, how often, and why. I mentioned the numbers of cats in the U.S. because almost invariably a mention of the numbers of dogs prompts an inquiry about the numbers of cats. >To bring the focus back to the issue - We are talking of the stray >dog issue, in Bangalore as of now and in India in general; since you >like numbers- India has recorded the highest population of stray dog >cases, the highest number of dog bite cases and the highest cases of >rabies related deaths in the world.\ Relative to the numbers of dogs and people, as I have already pointed out, India has a very low frequency of dog attacks that cause death or disfiguring injury--except from rabies, which is an eradicable disease if the correct strategy of immunizing dogs is pursued, instead of relying on post-exposure treatment of dog bite victims. In this regard, India made a monumental policy blunder many years ago in opting for emphasizing post-exposure vaccination over canine immunization. Brazil and Argentina at the same time went in the opposite direction. Both Brazil and Argentina had street dog populations comparable to those of India, at about 1 dog per 10 humans, and had comparable rabies outbreaks, until in the early 1980s Dr. Oscar Larghi organized national immunization drives that virtually eradicated rabies from Brazil, Argentina, and Uroguay. After more than 20 years, a few rabid dogs have again been found in two remote parts of Argentina. In both areas, the immunization programs were neglected after the initial success, and in both areas, bats are believed to have transmitted the disease to non-immunized dogs. Dr. Larghi has urged that the Argentinian immunization program be revitalized. >It has been ordered to cull the dogs here and therefore I had raised >concern on what would experts like you suggest on this, what can we >as activists do other than demonstrations; because the public >outrage/ mis understanding against the poor canines are at its peak >currently. This is the time to educate the public, educate public policy makers, and point out that those responding to the situation by killing dogs are so astoundingly ignorant (or corrupt) as to not deserve public office. Killing dogs merely opens habitat to more dogs, who with less food competition will raise larger litters. You need to point out that the politicians raising a hue and cry for killing dogs are in effect calling for their cities to have even more dogs, forever, because their strategy is precisely backward. You also need to point out that historically in India, and in many other places, the most corrupt elements in politics have used hiring dogcatchers to kill dogs as a means of putting their goondas and bag men on the public payroll. (This was the case in the U.S. too, just over 100 years ago, where the ward heelers of Tammany Hall bitterly fought the American SPCA over the ASPCA taking over the New York City pound contract in 1895) >> Kids are getting killed, people are getting bitten in thousands every month! As I previously pointed out, the present incidence of dog bites in Bangalore is only a third of the Indian national average. You need to make clear to your local politicians and news media that while 25,000 dog bites per year may sound like a lot by itself, it is markedly lower than the 75,000 dog bites per year that would be the norm for Indian cities of comparable size. >> Although you, I and everyone here are convinced that ABC program >>will reduce >the numbers and with it the dog bites, the public is >>not willing to buy that There were a grand total of 64 people in the Times of India page one photo of an alleged mass demonstration against street dogs, of whom nearly a third were police and news photographers, and one person had her back turned, with no evident interest or involvement in what was very clearly a staged photo-op. That doesn't look to me like authentic public outrage. Bigger crowds wait for buses. >Hoping that you would be the angel for them and come up with a >practical suggestion in this present circumstance! My practical suggestion is for you to quit pushing the panic button. The numbers are on the side of the ABC program. Learn them & use them. -- Merritt Clifton Editor, ANIMAL PEOPLE P.O. Box 960 Clinton, WA 98236 Telephone: 360-579-2505 Fax: 360-579-2575 E-mail: anmlpepl Web: www.animalpeoplenews.org [ANIMAL PEOPLE is the leading independent newspaper providing original investigative coverage of animal protection worldwide, founded in 1992. Our readership of 30,000-plus includes the decision-makers at more than 10,000 animal protection organizations. We have no alignment or affiliation with any other entity. $24/year; for free sample, send address.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Well lets not debate on public outrage because sitting thousands of miles away it would be hard for you to determine this. Its not just the outrage, its the changing attitude to the canines thats even more worrying. Regarding your advice of not pushing the panic button - I am sure the politicians here will be more than happy if more activists took that advice! From past experience I know that if we want some change, which would invariably be a small one to happen from the government's end, it will take effect only when the incident is fresh in people's mind! So unless there is a situation of panic created, issues such as illegal meat stalls, sewage management and basic public health which indirectly and directly is related to the present issue of dogs/ dog population and 'menace' will again be forgotten ; basically the promises made by the government to the public would never see the light of the day! These will remain as promises with a far fethched date and invariably the public and more conveniently the government wil forget untill and unless lives are lost again! Anyways it was great discussing with you! Thanks for all the information Sir! Pablo On 3/4/07, Merritt Clifton <anmlpepl wrote: > > >Well frankly am concerned to know that National geographic news do > >also come up with 'sensationalized crap'. > > They always did. Back when they started, in the early days > of printed photography, they were the one easily accessible > publication known for frequently printing photographs of > bare-breasted women, all in the name of educating school-aged young > men (their primary audience) about the cultures of Africa, Asia, > and Latin America. > > > So lets set that aside! Or should we? But then you are sure that > >all the other numbers you have given thereafter are true by the > >word, right? > > I have been collecting, compiling, & analyzing data in many > categories relevant to animal protection for nearly 30 years, > publishing my findings for the past 15 years for an audience > including the key decision makers at nearly 11,000 animal protection > organizations worldwide. This exposes my work to a most rigorous > peer review, on an ongoing basis. > > >>There are 300 million human beings in the U.S., who are presently > >>purchasing pet food for 70 million dogs and 90 million cats. " > > > >Your focus seems to have shifted off to pets. I am a little lost on > >this! I thought we were looking at a work around for stray dogs! > > The issue is dog attacks, including which dogs attack, how > often, and why. I mentioned the numbers of cats in the U.S. because > almost invariably a mention of the numbers of dogs prompts an inquiry > about the numbers of cats. > > >To bring the focus back to the issue - We are talking of the stray > >dog issue, in Bangalore as of now and in India in general; since you > >like numbers- India has recorded the highest population of stray dog > >cases, the highest number of dog bite cases and the highest cases of > >rabies related deaths in the world.\ > > Relative to the numbers of dogs and people, as I have > already pointed out, India has a very low frequency of dog attacks > that cause death or disfiguring injury--except from rabies, which is > an eradicable disease if the correct strategy of immunizing dogs is > pursued, instead of relying on post-exposure treatment of dog bite > victims. > > In this regard, India made a monumental policy blunder many > years ago in opting for emphasizing post-exposure vaccination over > canine immunization. > > Brazil and Argentina at the same time went in the opposite > direction. Both Brazil and Argentina had street dog populations > comparable to those of India, at about 1 dog per 10 humans, and had > comparable rabies outbreaks, until in the early 1980s Dr. Oscar > Larghi organized national immunization drives that virtually > eradicated rabies from Brazil, Argentina, and Uroguay. > > After more than 20 years, a few rabid dogs have again been > found in two remote parts of Argentina. In both areas, the > immunization programs were neglected after the initial success, and > in both areas, bats are believed to have transmitted the disease to > non-immunized dogs. > > Dr. Larghi has urged that the Argentinian immunization > program be revitalized. > > >It has been ordered to cull the dogs here and therefore I had raised > >concern on what would experts like you suggest on this, what can we > >as activists do other than demonstrations; because the public > >outrage/ mis understanding against the poor canines are at its peak > >currently. > > This is the time to educate the public, educate public > policy makers, and point out that those responding to the situation > by killing dogs are so astoundingly ignorant (or corrupt) as to not > deserve public office. > > Killing dogs merely opens habitat to more dogs, who with > less food competition will raise larger litters. > > You need to point out that the politicians raising a hue and > cry for killing dogs are in effect calling for their cities to have > even more dogs, forever, because their strategy is precisely > backward. > > You also need to point out that historically in India, and > in many other places, the most corrupt elements in politics have > used hiring dogcatchers to kill dogs as a means of putting their > goondas and bag men on the public payroll. > > (This was the case in the U.S. too, just over 100 years ago, > where the ward heelers of Tammany Hall bitterly fought the American > SPCA over the ASPCA taking over the New York City pound contract in > 1895) > > >> Kids are getting killed, people are getting bitten in thousands every > month! > > As I previously pointed out, the present incidence of dog > bites in Bangalore is only a third of the Indian national average. > > You need to make clear to your local politicians and news > media that while 25,000 dog bites per year may sound like a lot by > itself, it is markedly lower than the 75,000 dog bites per year that > would be the norm for Indian cities of comparable size. > > >> Although you, I and everyone here are convinced that ABC program > >>will reduce >the numbers and with it the dog bites, the public is > >>not willing to buy that > > There were a grand total of 64 people in the Times of India > page one photo of an alleged mass demonstration against street dogs, > of whom nearly a third were police and news photographers, and one > person had her back turned, with no evident interest or involvement > in what was very clearly a staged photo-op. > > That doesn't look to me like authentic public outrage. > Bigger crowds wait for buses. > > >Hoping that you would be the angel for them and come up with a > >practical suggestion in this present circumstance! > > My practical suggestion is for you to quit pushing the panic button. > > The numbers are on the side of the ABC program. Learn them & use them. > > -- > Merritt Clifton > Editor, ANIMAL PEOPLE > P.O. Box 960 > Clinton, WA 98236 > > Telephone: 360-579-2505 > Fax: 360-579-2575 > E-mail: anmlpepl <anmlpepl%40whidbey.com> > Web: www.animalpeoplenews.org > > [ANIMAL PEOPLE is the leading independent newspaper providing > original investigative coverage of animal protection worldwide, > founded in 1992. Our readership of 30,000-plus includes the > decision-makers at more than 10,000 animal protection organizations. > We have no alignment or affiliation with any other entity. $24/year; > for free sample, send address.] > > -- WOCON: http://groups.google.co.inwocon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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