Guest guest Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 I'd like some clarification please. Your subject line of " enjoying " - which is actually quite misleading - suggests you think what they are doing is a bad thing. can you expand please? On 23/02/07, azam24x7 <azam24x7 wrote: > > Message source: herma.caelen <herma.caelen%40skynet.be> > > Link: > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 Sonia, If you may refer to the post,I had written that the message was sourced from Ms. Herma Calen who had posted it in another group called <Animal_net>. The subject is in its original form as it appeared on that group, and no effort was made to sensationlize it. You may write to Herma and clarify. Also the video link has a list of comments from viewers perhapr you may like reading. Azam On 2/24/07, Sonia Gibbon - 3R <sonia.gibbon wrote: > I'd like some clarification please. Your subject line of " enjoying " - which > is actually quite misleading - suggests you think what they are doing is a > bad thing. > > can you expand please? > > > > On 23/02/07, azam24x7 <azam24x7 wrote: > > > > Message source: herma.caelen <herma.caelen%40skynet.be> > > > > Link: > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 I'd like clarification myself. I just watched the video, You don't think that what they were doing, eating whale, was a bad thing? If they are trying to send a message against whaling, this definitely had the opposite effect. Having lived in Japan for many years, first time in 1984, I somewhat understand that their culture is all about mutual respect and politeness. I would not have eaten the whale meat, regardless. All Greenpeace showed was that they thought it was good meat and that they accept this custom. Will Greenpeace be going to China to taste dog and cat meat next? Liz www.oaars.com Sonia Gibbon - 3R <sonia.gibbon wrote: I'd like some clarification please. Your subject line of " enjoying " - which is actually quite misleading - suggests you think what they are doing is a bad thing. can you expand please? On 23/02/07, azam24x7 <azam24x7 wrote: > > Message source: herma.caelen <herma.caelen%40skynet.be> > > Link: > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 i'm not really expressing an opinion on the eating of whale meat at all. But if you are going to try to change something that is so steeped in tradition and set so far back in a country's culture then I think going into the towns and talking to the people to understand where they are coming from is a great way to go and shows a respect for people. Regarding the eating of whale meat - I wouldnt have done it either. I just feel that in my opinion, trying to change something like the whale meat culture in Japan with the strong arm tactics of " we know better than you - stop it now " - is not the way to go and is less likely to work. Trying to attack it from a position of respect is a much better way to do it - and you cant do that without understanding where they are coming from. Thats all On 25/02/07, OAARS <oaars_cares wrote: > > I'd like clarification myself. I just watched the video, You don't think > that what they were doing, eating whale, was a bad thing? If they are > trying to send a message against whaling, this definitely had the opposite > effect. Having lived in Japan for many years, first time in 1984, I > somewhat understand that their culture is all about mutual respect and > politeness. I would not have eaten the whale meat, regardless. All > Greenpeace showed was that they thought it was good meat and that they > accept this custom. Will Greenpeace be going to China to taste dog and cat > meat next? > > Liz > www.oaars.com > > *Sonia Gibbon - 3R <sonia.gibbon* wrote: > > I'd like some clarification please. Your subject line of " enjoying " - > which > is actually quite misleading - suggests you think what they are doing is a > bad thing. > > can you expand please? > > On 23/02/07, azam24x7 <azam24x7 <azam24x7%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > Message source: herma.caelen <herma.caelen%40skynet.be> < > herma.caelen%40skynet.be> > > > > Link: > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 I respect your opinion, but....... Since you wouldn't have eaten the whale meat yourself, then you would've sent a message by not eating it. I have politely declined some of the food in Japan, not because I am trying to send a message, but because I don't enjoy eating it. You can send a message and hopefully change some minds without being rude or sounding like we know better. Knowing how the dolphins and whales are slaughtered I would not have sat there and actually acknowledge to enjoy eating it. I didn't see Greenpeace " trying to attack " this custom in any way, shape or form... Eating dog meat has been said it's part of the culture in Korea, those that have done their research and speak for the animals say otherwise. Unless we denounce this practice, at the risk of being rude, it will continue to happen.... Liz www.oaars.com Sonia Gibbon - 3R <sonia.gibbon wrote: i'm not really expressing an opinion on the eating of whale meat at all. But if you are going to try to change something that is so steeped in tradition and set so far back in a country's culture then I think going into the towns and talking to the people to understand where they are coming from is a great way to go and shows a respect for people. Regarding the eating of whale meat - I wouldnt have done it either. I just feel that in my opinion, trying to change something like the whale meat culture in Japan with the strong arm tactics of " we know better than you - stop it now " - is not the way to go and is less likely to work. Trying to attack it from a position of respect is a much better way to do it - and you cant do that without understanding where they are coming from. Thats all On 25/02/07, OAARS <oaars_cares wrote: I'd like clarification myself. I just watched the video, You don't think that what they were doing, eating whale, was a bad thing? If they are trying to send a message against whaling, this definitely had the opposite effect. Having lived in Japan for many years, first time in 1984, I somewhat understand that their culture is all about mutual respect and politeness. I would not have eaten the whale meat, regardless. All Greenpeace showed was that they thought it was good meat and that they accept this custom. Will Greenpeace be going to China to taste dog and cat meat next? Liz www.oaars.com Sonia Gibbon - 3R < sonia.gibbon wrote: I'd like some clarification please. Your subject line of " enjoying " - which is actually quite misleading - suggests you think what they are doing is a bad thing. can you expand please? On 23/02/07, azam24x7 <azam24x7 wrote: > > Message source: herma.caelen <herma.caelen%40skynet.be> > > Link: > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 True - you are correct that NOT eating it would have made more of a statement (I noticed the girl in the video did not eat any - well not that we saw). I think I was trying to make the point that I wholeheartedly support their apparent plan of understanding the culture to help them stop the practise. Incidentally, I can easily answer that I would not have eaten it because I dont eat meat anyway. This being due to my feelings about how all animals are farmed and slaughtered; even the " free range organic " are less than ideal. Had I been a meat eater, I'm not sure it would have been so easy to answer since the slaughter of the whales (I feel) isnt that different to the farm animal slaughter in many places. I recall at the AFAC in Singapore seeing a pig being thrown into a large vat of boiling water alive and completely concious - not even with an attempt to stun it first. As I said, to me this slaughter and the whale slaughter isnt that different in principle. With this in mind - I know someone who is doing great work educating abbatoir workers in very poor areas of Asia and providing them with proper equipment and skills to carry out this job more humanely. This person is not a vegetarian, and I respect their judgement not to be. It doesnt detract from the fact that they're doing wonderful work. I suppose though that all of this is just my personally opinion. I hope that wasnt too mixed up! Just something I believe in strongly and so trying to post a message whilst working! On 25/02/07, OAARS <oaars_cares wrote: > > I respect your opinion, but....... Since you wouldn't have eaten the > whale meat yourself, then you would've sent a message by not eating it. I > have politely declined some of the food in Japan, not because I am trying > to send a message, but because I don't enjoy eating it. You can send a > message and hopefully change some minds without being rude or sounding like > we know better. Knowing how the dolphins and whales are slaughtered I would > not have sat there and actually acknowledge to enjoy eating it. I didn't > see Greenpeace " trying to attack " this custom in any way, shape or form... > > Eating dog meat has been said it's part of the culture in Korea, those > that have done their research and speak for the animals say otherwise. > Unless we denounce this practice, at the risk of being rude, it will > continue to happen.... > > Liz > www.oaars.com > > *Sonia Gibbon - 3R <sonia.gibbon* wrote: > > i'm not really expressing an opinion on the eating of whale meat at all. > But if you are going to try to change something that is so steeped in > tradition and set so far back in a country's culture then I think going into > the towns and talking to the people to understand where they are coming from > is a great way to go and shows a respect for people. > > Regarding the eating of whale meat - I wouldnt have done it either. I just > feel that in my opinion, trying to change something like the whale meat > culture in Japan with the strong arm tactics of " we know better than you - > stop it now " - is not the way to go and is less likely to work. Trying to > attack it from a position of respect is a much better way to do it - and you > cant do that without understanding where they are coming from. > > Thats all > > > On 25/02/07, OAARS <oaars_cares wrote: > > > > I'd like clarification myself. I just watched the video, You don't > > think that what they were doing, eating whale, was a bad thing? If they are > > trying to send a message against whaling, this definitely had the opposite > > effect. Having lived in Japan for many years, first time in 1984, I > > somewhat understand that their culture is all about mutual respect and > > politeness. I would not have eaten the whale meat, regardless. All > > Greenpeace showed was that they thought it was good meat and that they > > accept this custom. Will Greenpeace be going to China to taste dog and cat > > meat next? > > > > Liz > > www.oaars.com > > > > *Sonia Gibbon - 3R < sonia.gibbon* wrote: > > > > I'd like some clarification please. Your subject line of " enjoying " - > > which > > is actually quite misleading - suggests you think what they are doing is > > a > > bad thing. > > > > can you expand please? > > > > On 23/02/07, azam24x7 <azam24x7 <azam24x7%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > Message source: herma.caelen <herma.caelen%40skynet.be> < > > herma.caelen%40skynet.be> > > > > > > Link: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 > to try to change something that is so steeped in > tradition and set so far back in a country's culture> RELISHING ON WHALE MEAT TO SAVE WHALES IS STUPID, OUTRAGEOUS AND HIGHLY CONDEMNABLE OF GREENPEACE. THIS ONLY EXPOSES THE DOUBLE STANDARDS OF ANIMAL WELFARE IN TODAYS WORLD. WE PEOPLE DEFENDING THE RIGHTS OF ANIMALS ARE WAY TOO SOFT IN OUR APPROACH. IT IS SAD. WHY CANNOT GREENPEACE TAKE IN SOME HEALTHY CRITICISM FOR THIS ACT OF THEIRS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 Any form of inhumane slaughter should stop, in Japan or anywhere else. Many in animal welfare are working very hard towards that goal. There have been boycotts for Kentucky Fried Chicken due to the way the chickens are kept. I actually walked out during one of the videos shown at Singapore, cows were hit with malletts over their head, they would go down and then try to stand up, only to be hit again. It was extremely heartbreaking to watch. Maybe a different approach would've been better received by more if the man at the table had not appeared to enjoy the meat. I guess he was being truthful, but it defeats the purpose. I don't think the Japanese Family were given any indication that these tradition is a cruel one. It's more about the inhumane slaughtering than meat consumption itself. The world would be a better place though, if more were vegetarians. I am one of the weak ones, made a few attempts and failed, will continue to try and hopefully be successful.. Thanks for your reply. Liz www.oaars.com Sonia Gibbon - 3R <sonia.gibbon wrote: True - you are correct that NOT eating it would have made more of a statement (I noticed the girl in the video did not eat any - well not that we saw). I think I was trying to make the point that I wholeheartedly support their apparent plan of understanding the culture to help them stop the practise. Incidentally, I can easily answer that I would not have eaten it because I dont eat meat anyway. This being due to my feelings about how all animals are farmed and slaughtered; even the " free range organic " are less than ideal. Had I been a meat eater, I'm not sure it would have been so easy to answer since the slaughter of the whales (I feel) isnt that different to the farm animal slaughter in many places. I recall at the AFAC in Singapore seeing a pig being thrown into a large vat of boiling water alive and completely concious - not even with an attempt to stun it first. As I said, to me this slaughter and the whale slaughter isnt that different in principle. With this in mind - I know someone who is doing great work educating abbatoir workers in very poor areas of Asia and providing them with proper equipment and skills to carry out this job more humanely. This person is not a vegetarian, and I respect their judgement not to be. It doesnt detract from the fact that they're doing wonderful work. I suppose though that all of this is just my personally opinion. I hope that wasnt too mixed up! Just something I believe in strongly and so trying to post a message whilst working! On 25/02/07, OAARS <oaars_cares wrote: I respect your opinion, but....... Since you wouldn't have eaten the whale meat yourself, then you would've sent a message by not eating it. I have politely declined some of the food in Japan, not because I am trying to send a message, but because I don't enjoy eating it. You can send a message and hopefully change some minds without being rude or sounding like we know better. Knowing how the dolphins and whales are slaughtered I would not have sat there and actually acknowledge to enjoy eating it. I didn't see Greenpeace " trying to attack " this custom in any way, shape or form... Eating dog meat has been said it's part of the culture in Korea, those that have done their research and speak for the animals say otherwise. Unless we denounce this practice, at the risk of being rude, it will continue to happen.... Liz www.oaars.com Sonia Gibbon - 3R < sonia.gibbon wrote: i'm not really expressing an opinion on the eating of whale meat at all. But if you are going to try to change something that is so steeped in tradition and set so far back in a country's culture then I think going into the towns and talking to the people to understand where they are coming from is a great way to go and shows a respect for people. Regarding the eating of whale meat - I wouldnt have done it either. I just feel that in my opinion, trying to change something like the whale meat culture in Japan with the strong arm tactics of " we know better than you - stop it now " - is not the way to go and is less likely to work. Trying to attack it from a position of respect is a much better way to do it - and you cant do that without understanding where they are coming from. Thats all On 25/02/07, OAARS < oaars_cares wrote: I'd like clarification myself. I just watched the video, You don't think that what they were doing, eating whale, was a bad thing? If they are trying to send a message against whaling, this definitely had the opposite effect. Having lived in Japan for many years, first time in 1984, I somewhat understand that their culture is all about mutual respect and politeness. I would not have eaten the whale meat, regardless. All Greenpeace showed was that they thought it was good meat and that they accept this custom. Will Greenpeace be going to China to taste dog and cat meat next? Liz www.oaars.com Sonia Gibbon - 3R < sonia.gibbon wrote: I'd like some clarification please. Your subject line of " enjoying " - which is actually quite misleading - suggests you think what they are doing is a bad thing. can you expand please? On 23/02/07, azam24x7 <azam24x7 wrote: > > Message source: herma.caelen <herma.caelen%40skynet.be> > > Link: > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Update from Herma Calen hecal_2000 on <Animal_net> : Speaking from the ship Robert Hunter, Captain Watson said, " I respect Japanese culture, and in fact, I have been a student of Japanese history, but I do not and never will respect any part of a culture that butchers and eats the flesh of one of the most intelligent, socially-complex, and most gentle sentient beings on this planet. I place whale eating on the level of cannibalism as barbarous behaviour. " more comments: http://www.seashepherd.org/news/media_070216_1.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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