Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Dear Azam and AAPN colleagues, I understand that AAPN is for animal issues. But in my view the situation in Iraq and some other areas, for example, animal experimentation, animal sacrifice as laid out in traditional religion, halal and kosher method of slaughtering animals, the displacement of villagers in sanctuaries, issues of elephant human conflict in Assam and Bengal and shoot to kill policies in national parks are some policies(amongst others) that should take the human factor into account. In my view an morally absolutist and isolationist animal rights view would in all probabilty not have the desired effect for animals. The establishment of the new Oxford centre is a step in the right direction towards allaying any misunderstandings that may arise between the human rights and animal rights groups. I, for one, wish them all success and I hope members of the general public join in the discussion and debate. I hope we could have a similar centre in India. I appreciate the fact that you have taken the trouble to write on this issue. It only illustrates that two individuals agree on some issues and disagree on others. That is as it should be. If I have hurt you or anyone else with entrenched views, I sincerely regret it, please be assured that I appreciate the efforts of everyone on this list for animal rights/welfare/conservation work. Well, I think November has been a busy month for John with both you and me ensuring him a torrid time. I must get down to work now on my presentation for the AfA conference. I do hope to meet you and many members of this list in Madras. As John said, putting a face to an e-mail can help in better understanding. I am glad to note that the Elephant Polo campaign is progressing much the way we wanted it to. We could not have come this far without your help. Cheers and keep the good work, On 11/30/06, azam24x7 <azamsiddiqui wrote: > > Dear , > > I think in order to advocate animal rights, we - the human activists > for animal rights have to keep our focus exclusively concentrated > on " ANIMALS " and their " RIGHTS " and " WELFARE " and nothing else. > Otherwise what difference does it make between us and the selfish > Governmental policies etc which despite framing laws and rules for > animal welfare give priority when it comes to ther human brethrens. > > What difference does it make to the sufferings of an animal when you > try explaining the animal about the wrong doings of your fellow > human beings ? > > Why are you there for ? > > Why are we for ? > > Why is AAPN for ? > > Human rights posts should simply not be permitted on AAPN. > They can be sent to the hundreds of Human Rights links on Google, > Viz: Amnesty International ( I am sure such posts shall always be > respected and not criticized as it is on AAPN ). > > I have 1st hand experince when last year there were riots between > two ethnic tribes of Assam, the Karbis and the Dimasas ( some > political issue ). As a result of which people in busses were burnt > alive, huts and villages were burnt. Valuable human lives were lost. > Animals were set on fire. Huge compensation was paid by the > Government later. > I reached a spot 24 hrs hours later for news reporting after one bus > full of 24 people was set on fire killing all the passengers and > also a Village where many houses were set ablaze, I saw there were > no villagers, some had died, some fled to neighbouring safe areas, > rest were either killed or nursing wounds in hospitals and rehab > camps far away. > > Then I saw something which was sad, very tragic. > I saw the injured animals, livestock, cattle, pigs, poultry without > their guardians, searching for food around the burnt huts. > Not a single grain was to be found. No food ! > > Although for the poultry and the cattle and livestock they managed > to graze in the surrounding greenery. > > But there was simply nothing for the DOGS, and they were many. > > They were starving, they came running to me and my crew, for they > saw HUMANS. The same HUMANS who they were dependent on. They knew > they will get food. What they didnt know was that they I would soon > leave them to die a painful death due to starvation. > > I was not carrying any food, nothing but bottles of mineral water. > > I was helpless, I could see their eyes, I could feel what they > wanted, but I was miles away from civilisation. > > I cursed myself for not taking anything, because there was a curfew > in that whole region. Even our priority was to reach that areas > asap, so food arrangement was something no one had thought of. > > I know the DOGS later starved to death, because the situation was so > tense that even para military was not daring to carry out combing > operations. > > I am sure you understand the militancy and insurgency in this region. > > I have reported in this region for six years now. > > I have always seen that the Government sets up Rehabilitation, > rescue camps for the HUMANS, Medical camps for the HUMANS, but > nothing for the animals in distress.Animal welfare in such > situations is always lowest on priority. > > Last year there was an incident when the Indian Army came to know of > ULFA militants camping inside the Dibru Saikhowa National Park in > Assam. They went for a combing operation, many days of cross fire, > several animals were displaced, killed, poached because of this from > both the sides. > All the conservation efforts of the wildlife went in vain. Why? > Because human lives were at risk. > > We all know, there is a HUMAN RIGHTS lobby which is strong enough to > take note of the human attrocities and also the ailing humans are > alteast strong enough to speak up. > But not the animals. It we, and only we as animal rights advocates > who carry some hope for the animal kingdom in distress. > > Never have I come across the Indian Government or any organisation > on the lines of the Red Cross etc who rush with an SOS for animals > in distress during conflicts, apart from NGOs. > > A WAR like IRAQ may a times catchs the international attention of > groups like PETA and others where many animals do get justice. > > But several hundreds of incidents like I mentioned go unseen > unheard, and if our attitudes towards prioritizing human rights for > animal rights does not change. The future for animal rights indeed > will be weak. > > So my friend Shubho, please can we try and collectively think of > only animal rights/welfare. > > I know most of us would agree after all this is theonly reason we > are on AAPN, or atleast I am. > > Azam Siddiqui > > ------------------ > > THE ANGLO AMERICAN > > > COALITION HAS KILLED 650,000 CIVILIANS IN COLD BLOOD > TO 'LIBERATE' IRAQ? > > > KILLING PIGS AND SETTING THEM ON FIRE IS UNQUESTIONABLY WRONG > BUT IT IS > > > ALSO > > > WRONG TO USE DEPLETED URANIUM TO KILL TWO MONTH OLD BABIES. IT > IS ALSO > > > WRONG > > > TO URINATE AND DEFECATE ON PRISONERS. IT ALSO WRONG TO SHOOT > JOURNALISTS > > > ON > > > DUTY. IT IS ALSO WRONG TO USE ELECTRIC SHOCKS ON PEOPLE DURING > > > INTERROGATION. IT IS ALSO WRONG TO MASTURBATE ON PEOPLE TO HAVE > PHOTOS > > > TAKEN > > > FOR FUN. HUMANS ARE ALSO ANIMALS, RIGHT? CONCERN FOR PIGS IS > FINE BUT > > > THERE > > > MUST BE CONCERN FOR PEOPLE AS WELL. ANY ANIMAL RIGHTS SCHEME THAT > > > DISREGARDS > > > HUMAN RIGHTS CAN ONLY FLOUNDER > > aapn <aapn%40>, " Sonia Gibbon " < > sonia.gibbon wrote: > > > > I must agree with LPC. AAPN is a forum for diseminating news and > > information about animal issues. > > > > I think bringing up details of any other military atrocity (which > are many > > and not reserved for the " Anglo-American coalition " - whatever that > > assertion might mean) is irrelevant and not constructive. > > > > I think we should all remember what this forum is for and one of > its > > purposes is certainly not to try to " shoot down " each other for > the news > > they try to post. > > > > I did not read that article to mean that LPC thought the treatment > of these > > pigs was worse than the treatment of any human - and I'm sure it > was not > > meant that way. > > > > > > > > On 28/11/06, wrote: > > > > > > *DOES THIS COME AS ANY SURPRISE CONSIDERING THAT THE ANGLO > AMERICAN > > > COALITION HAS KILLED 650,000 CIVILIANS IN COLD BLOOD > TO 'LIBERATE' IRAQ? > > > KILLING PIGS AND SETTING THEM ON FIRE IS UNQUESTIONABLY WRONG > BUT IT IS > > > ALSO > > > WRONG TO USE DEPLETED URANIUM TO KILL TWO MONTH OLD BABIES. IT > IS ALSO > > > WRONG > > > TO URINATE AND DEFECATE ON PRISONERS. IT ALSO WRONG TO SHOOT > JOURNALISTS > > > ON > > > DUTY. IT IS ALSO WRONG TO USE ELECTRIC SHOCKS ON PEOPLE DURING > > > INTERROGATION. IT IS ALSO WRONG TO MASTURBATE ON PEOPLE TO HAVE > PHOTOS > > > TAKEN > > > FOR FUN. HUMANS ARE ALSO ANIMALS, RIGHT? CONCERN FOR PIGS IS > FINE BUT > > > THERE > > > MUST BE CONCERN FOR PEOPLE AS WELL. ANY ANIMAL RIGHTS SCHEME THAT > > > DISREGARDS > > > HUMAN RIGHTS CAN ONLY FLOUNDER. THIS IS UNCOMFORTABLE BUT IT HAS > TO > > > BE REMINDED TO KEEP ISSUES IN PERSPECTIVE.* > > > > > > On 11/27/06, Le Petit Chien <perro10 <perro10%40xs4all.nl>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > (Crossposted from another newsgroup) > > > > > > > > Originally Posted by rayshick <rayshick% > 40msn.com><rayshick%40msn.com> > > > > > > > Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:31 am (PST) > > > > > > > > Pigs Shot, Set on Fire in Military Training > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/glogin? > URI=http://gk.nytimes.com/mem/gatekeeper.html & OQ=_rQ3D1Q26URIQ3DhttpQ > 3AQ2FQ2Fwww.nytimes.comQ2F2006Q2F11Q2F02Q2FworldQ2FmiddleeastQ2F02med > ic.htmlQ26OQ51Q3D_rQ513D3Q5126thQ5126emcQ513DthQ5126orefQ513DsloginQ5 > 126orefQ513DsloginQ26OPQ3D67ddb4c4Q512FY > > > ! > BQ5160YcQ517BQ513Ep4Q517BQ517BvmYmQ5123Q5123HYQ5125Q5125YQ5123mY! > Q517B4dcYhkccdBB-pvYQ5123mhBckQ513E3jvhd & OP=7b88eQ2FC)fRCa! > Q51fQ5BQ60-CQ5CQ51uQ5BssaOCsm0Q51fQ5CQ51fQ60CQ20Q5BQ51fKffsfmqQ5CQ51u > > > > > > > > > > > > Tell DOD (Department of Defense) To Stop Cruel Training > Exercises, > > > > Develop More Appropriate Human Trauma Models > > > > > > > > A recent article in The New York Times profiled a Navy medic > in Iraq > > > > who is treating wounded combat soldiers. In interviewing the > medic, > > > > the Times asked the 22-year-old how he trained for the job. The > > > > medic said he took several courses before he was deployed, > including > > > > one advanced trauma treatment program where instructors gave > each > > > > corpsman an anesthetized pig. His pig was shot eight times and > set > > > > on fire during a 15-hour time period during which the medic > worked > > > > to keep the pig alive. > > > > > > > > Excerpt from the article: (NYTimes, Nov. 2, 2006) > > > > > > > > Petty Officer Kirby began to list the schools he had attended > to be > > > > ready for this moment. Some he had paid for himself, he said, > to be > > > > extra-prepared. > > > > > > > > In one course, an advanced trauma treatment program he had > taken > > > > before deploying, he said, the instructors gave each corpsman > an > > > > anesthetized pig. > > > > > > > > " The idea is to work with live tissue, " he said. " You get a > pig and > > > > you keep it alive. And every time I did something to help him, > they > > > > would wound him again. So you see what shock does, and what > happens > > > > when more wounds are received by a wounded creature. " > > > > > > > > " My pig? " he said. " They shot him twice in the face with a 9- > > > > millimeter pistol, and then six times with an AK-47 and then > twice > > > > with a 12-gauge shotgun. And then he was set on fire. " > > > > > > > > " I kept him alive for 15 hours, " he said. " That was my pig, " > he said. > > > > For complete article, go to: > > > > > > > > Please contact the Secretary of Defense and chairs of the > > > > Congressional Armed Services Committees about this matter. > > > > > > > > * Urge them to cut funding for and endorsement of this type of > > > > training. > > > > > > > > * Tell them that there is enough violence in the world and that > > > > causing animals to suffer over human-made conflicts is > inappropriate > > > > > > > > * Tell them that there are humane ways to learn about trauma > > > > medicine, including by participating with human physicians in > > > > hospitals all over the United States on patients who have been > shot > > > > or are severely injured and in need of trauma care. > > > > > > > > Contact information follows: > > > > > > > > Robert Gates > > > > Secretary of Defense > > > > 1000 Defense Pentagon > > > > Washington, DC 20301-1000 > > > > > > > > Rep. Duncan Hunter, Chair > > > > House Armed Services Committee > > > > 2120 Rayburn House Office Building > > > > Washington, DC 20515 > > > > > > > > Senator John Warner, Chair > > > > Senate Armed Services Committee > > > > 228 Russell Senate Office Building > > > > Washington, DC 20510 > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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