QOTW: Nov. 20th - 26th

November 21, 2005

Here is this week's question for us all to ponder and answer

when we can:

With the holiday of food upon us here in the US, we all

know there will be encounters with omnivores and the

vegetarian curious. So, as a vegetarian, what is the strangest

question that has been asked of you during past holiday

feasts? How did you choose to respond; think you did well, or

wish had done better? Are you ready for this year?

Maybe some of our answers these next few days can help

prepare us with ready witty and helpful responses to those

who feel they must ask us questions about our vegetarianism.

~ pt ~

P.S. Sorry i didn't get this posted yesterday as planned. i took

a bit of a cyber-break this weekend, but now feel rested and

refreshed! :::coffeemug salute to all:::

Over the river and through the woods

Trot fast my dapple gray.

Spring over the ground

Like a hunting hound

On this Thanksgiving Day, Hey!

Over the river and through the woods

Now Grandmother's face I spy.

Hurrah for the fun,

Is the pudding done?

Hurrah for the pumpkin pie.

~Ê English folksong

November 21, 2005

>Here is this week's question for us all to ponder and answer

>when we can:

>

>With the holiday of food upon us here in the US, we all

>know there will be encounters with omnivores and the

>vegetarian curious. So, as a vegetarian, what is the strangest

>question that has been asked of you during past holiday

>feasts? How did you choose to respond; think you did well, or

>wish had done better? Are you ready for this year?

>

>Maybe some of our answers these next few days can help

>prepare us with ready witty and helpful responses to those

>who feel they must ask us questions about our vegetarianism.

As a vegetarian for 25 years, I wouldn't get too many questions the past

several years with family... most had been dealt with. Although once, I

caused a ruckus for not eating the desserts " I was supposed to eat 'cause

they'd worked for days on them, " due to my not having done much sugar or

sweet stuff for months and I was cutting back.

Since my holidays are/were with friends/family, it's not where I'm usually

questioned about what I eat (or don't eat). Sure, in the course of normal

activities, " where do you get your protein? " , " you don't look vegetarian! "

and so on, happen predictably.

However, as a vegan for the past four years, the biggest question the past

first couple of holidays with family was about cheese/milk. Eggs rarely,

if ever, came up. I wouldn't go into detail unless I was pushed a bit,

then I'd explain, politely, that although the hormones (we are the only

country in the world to allow Monsanto's bht in our cows), fat, and

concentrated chemicals in cheese I'd selectively " forgotten and ignored "

for years (let alone the abuse to the poor cows and that we are the only

animals to drink another animal's mother's milk), it was recognition the

concentrated LEGAL amount of pus cells in milk that finally got to me (I

wrote about this " vegan tipping point " of mine in my blog... address below).

The article on " pus cells in milk " by Robert Cohen at:

http://www.notmilkman.com was the one that did it to me.

If, god forbid, I'm pushed further, I point out that if we were really

going to drink milk (or eat cheese) we'd consider something closer to

mother's milk. Wouldn't chimpanzee milk or human milk be better? I got

that point nailed in my consciousness from a part of Howard Lyman's " Mad

Cowboy Documentary " where Dr. Eisman explains this all a bit more

graphically.

When I've brought this up, people/family would say " Yuck... wish you hadn't

told me " and go back to eating cheese and drinking milk!

Fortunately, I've found that in the past few years, few people I meet for

the first time really question being a veg anymore, only generally

justifying that they can't do the same. I think vegetarianism is somewhat

mainstream these days (veganism, however, is another matter). On a polite

inquiry, I mention I do it for primarily for spiritual, environmental, and

health reasons (although sypathetic to AR issues).

In my earlier years I was a bit more rabid about it all (25 years ago in

Dallas, going veg was like being a communist). Sometimes I couldn't handle

sitting across from the turkey carcass, other times making rude comments.

Didn't accomplish anything but increase tension and reduce the communal

atmosphere. I regret those lapses in judgement and emotionalism.

These days, I keep it calm and cool unless provoked and ridiculed. Even

then, I try to take a deep breath, and think or say " to each his/her own. "

With young nieces lactose-intolerent, and two veg cousins, when gathering

with family for a holiday, it's better than it's ever been.

My general recommendation is to be honest, but soft and brief at first if

challenged or questioned. Simply saying " health reasons " or " for the

environment " or " for the animals " should suffice. If it continues, have in

mind a short, tight, polite, summary.... couple of statistics if you're so

inclined. Few people, I believe, will question " health reasons " (it's that

mainstream these days). You can offer to e-mail them some websites of

interest, if they want to learn more.

If it amps up still, then smile and say " to each his/her own " and get on

with the event. A holiday is not the place to stand on a soapbox, try to

change the world, set a bad example, or rant.

Been there, done that, regret same! Like it or not, we are still a

minority, and people tend to think we represent the same. I do better when

I remember this when interacting with those who haven't, ahem, caught on.

Best wishes for a good thanksgiving to all.... Mark

http://www.soulveggie.com (blog)

>

>~ pt ~

>

>P.S. Sorry i didn't get this posted yesterday as planned. i took

>a bit of a cyber-break this weekend, but now feel rested and

>refreshed! :::coffeemug salute to all:::

>

>Over the river and through the woods

>Trot fast my dapple gray.

>Spring over the ground

>Like a hunting hound

>On this Thanksgiving Day, Hey!

>Over the river and through the woods

>Now Grandmother's face I spy.

>Hurrah for the fun,

>Is the pudding done?

>Hurrah for the pumpkin pie.

>~Ê English folksong

>

November 21, 2005

PT, this is mine and my husband's first vegie Thanksgiving. So I can't

answer as to past ones, but we did have an " awkward encounter of the third

kind " , so to speak at a church potluck yesterday. I think I handled it

pretty well; I've been expecting something like this and reviewing various

responses in my head.

But still...I'm sure there's room for improvement!

First off, you have to understand that hubby and I are now livin' in the

Deep South, home of hunters and fishers of <gulp> innocent animals and fish

and birds. Also home to deep traditions involving same, and also home to--I

might add--very kind and at least try to be accommodating, hospitable folks.

(Hey, I'm a Southerner myself! half Texan and half Tennessean, born in

Texas...)

So that's to set the stage for the encounter yesterday. At our new church

there is a visitor's dinner every Sunday after services. My dh and I are

still visitors, getting to know people and all, so we went to this

dinner.Thankfully there were lots of vegies and salads (which is also

typical of the Southern way of eating!), as well as that ubiquitous but very

comforting staple, cornbread--and so we had full plates and happy

anticipation after the blessing was given.

Across from us sat a very tall fellow with silvery hair, and a gracious

smile. I'm shy around strangers, sometimes to the point of not being able to

even say " hey " . (Believe it or not, LOL!) Especially men strangers, but

that's a whole 'nuther issue. And so this man was making conversation,

trying to break the ice, and he asked me if we were having turkey or ham for

our Thanksgiving dinner. And I said, gently and with a smile, " Neither one,

actually. " Dh leans over and says, with another smile, " We're vegetarians. "

The man doesn't drop his fork but his eyes widen in (I'm sure) deep

surprise. I say, " Might sound weird, huh? " to try to help him over an

awkward place and to try and identify with him (after all, it wasn't that

long ago at ALL that I would have DEFINITELY dropped my fork at the

announcement of someone being vegetarian!) and he finishes chewing his bite

of food (I didn't look to see what it was, this was hard enough as it was).

Then he says, quickly, " No, no, not really, not at all, actually. My

daughter-in-law is a vegetarian too. And we just think the WORLD of her! " I

and dh are thinking, " Great! Great! this is going well, " and then the fellow

says, " No, she doesn't eat any meat either. Not even any chicken! or fish! "

really, as though he couldn't understand this at all (no doubt he

can't...not yet, at least...<g>). Dh offered, again with a smile, " well, you

know, those ARE animals too, " and I thought, " way to go, sweetie, make that

point but do it kindly! " The silver haired fellow mused, " But now, actually,

our son has started to get her to eat a little fish recently, so she's

comin' around. " Chew, chew. Swallow. Dh and I are in silent dismay... " comin'

around " ? Horrors!! And I nearly, nearly said, " oh, that's too bad! " but

stopped myself just in time. He wouldn't have gotten it and it wouldn't have

done any good, I could see that. (Dh and I's philosophy as new vegies is

that we pick our battles sparingly, and be very careful about how and where

we assail...<g>...)

The silver-haired fellow looks at me rather thoughtfully and says, " Yeah,

she's comin' around, eatin' fish now. But we just love her JUST THE WAY SHE

IS, don't we, Daddy? " --this to his father, sitting across the table a couple

chairs over from me. His father says, " Oh, yes! We certainly DO! " And I'm

thinkin', " Oh YES! you certainly DON'T! I bet ch'all badger that poor girl

all the time about her food choices, bless her heart, " and I made a mental

note to find out who she is so I and dh could talk to her and encourage her.

And his father says to me--obviously not having heard the whole

conversation, " Ain't ch'all havin' turkey? " and I say, " No sir, " and he

says, " well, now, do you need hep with gittin' one? " and I turn to dh for

help in the conversation. Silver haired son is now watching and listening

with some...it seems...calculation on his part. Dh says, " No sir, no thank

you, we don't eat turkey, chicken, fish or any other animals; we're

vegetarians, " and he had to repeat it a couple times because the old fellow

was rather deaf. Finally the old fellow understood and said, " No meat? y'all

don't eat meat? " and I said, " No sir, we eat vegetables, salads, and

grains--lots of wonderful things. " He just looked at me like I had lost my

mind, which to his way of thinking, I had. :>) Bless his heart.

So then the whole other end of the table heard dh say " we're vegetarians " ,

and as they were all older-than-us folks, it was very interesting --not to

say amusing--to watch their faces in response. They all were shocked and

then they tried really hard to erase the shock with smiles all around (I'm

tellin' you what, there is NOBODY as polite as a Southerner, trained from

birth to be such!). Nobody commented on it to us after that, but we noticed

that the silver-haired son began to talk more loudly than was necessary

about the deer he had shot and killed and frozen for various <grimace> meal

purposes. A lady who was obviously a friend of the silver-haired son's

family sat down right after the vegetarian exchange, not knowing about it,

and said to him, " Be sure and save me some venison burgers. Nothin' like

venison, it's so good for you! " and the silver-haired son said loudly, " Oh,

I know. It SURE IS good for you, no fat or nuthin'. " And all I could see in

my mind was a picture of a shot deer, blood everywhere and the stricken look

in the deer's eyes. I tried to concentrate on the salad I had been enjoying

but at that point it was difficult.

And I felt...I might have been wrong, but I felt like there was a touch of

" you made your point, now I'm makin' mine " from the silver-haired fellow. He

waxed on and on about deer " meat " and how wonderful it was. Dh and I ignored

him, didn't make eye contact with him during that, talked to each other

about how tasty this was, or that was and managed to make it thru that

without (on my part) crying or (on dh's part) collaring the man.

After all, as I kept tellin' myself and dh kept tellin' himself, They don't

KNOW. This is a totally different concept and it will definitely take lots

of educatin'. So we have to go SLOWly, so it will be educatin' and not

preachifyin'. :>)

Suddenly, the man broke off his conversation with the lady about the deer

parts and looked straight at me and said, " Y'all got enough to eat here

today? Of what you CAN eat, I mean? " , with a little smile, kind of as if to

say, " I don't believe you did, but to be polite I'll ask you, anyway, " and I

nodded and said, " Oh, definitely! Lots of good things to eat here, " and

smiled and gestured at my plate full of rice, vegies, salads and cornbread.

Silver-hair gestured with his fork over to dh: " You get enough too? I mean,

are there enough things here you CAN eat? " and dh does about the same thing

as I had. There is a hush over our end of the table, and all the eyes are on

us and our plates and the ears are listenin' from the first thing

silver-hair says to me about gettin' enough to eat. Then the silverhair

says, " Well, that's good, I'd hate for y'all to go away hungry, " and I said,

" Oh no, as long as there are vegetables, we don't go hungry, we have a

feast, actually! " and smiled to think of all the wonderful meals we've

already had, having " gone veg " . Dh said, " Sweetie, let's go back for

seconds, " and I said, " okay " and the silverhaired man followed us with his

eyes. We passed by all the folks who looked at us as if we had pink spots on

green skin...as if we might bite...so sad, but you have to expect that

really, in this neck of the woods anyway.

We filled our plates again and then got a couple pieces of chocolate cake

and some banana pudding. But we were so full from the vegies that we

couldn't eat the desserts, annnnd...and this was a shock to me in

particular!...the cake was so rich I couldn't hav eaten more than one

forkful of it! WHOA.

After we got back and sat down, the silverhaired man said to his daddy,

deliberately raising his voice, it seemed to me, " So, we're bringin' the

turkey over Thursday and we're gonna fry it, right? " and the daddy said, in

a normal tone, " Yep, we shore are. " Then the two of them discussed in great

detail...brought out by the son...exactly how they were going to do these

things connected to the turkey. Dh and I both at that point just began to

talk to each other about the vegies we particularly had liked on our plates,

in effect ignoring the silverhaired man.

Another old geezer came over presently, and sat down in front of me and

said he'd heard I lived out in West Texas, in San Angelo, as a child, and

that he had lived there nearly 20 years. So he and I began talkin' about

that very enjoyable subject, dh listenin' in, and the silverhaired man and

company watched us and listened a little bit and then finished their dinners

and left. We deliberately did not look over toward the silverhaired man

again, hoping he would get the message. I guess he did, which suited us just

fine. Dh and the sweet little ole geezer and I had really the BEST time

talkin', I must say. :>)

It was hard to tell, at first, if the silverhaired man was being passive

aggressive toward us, or the things he said were innocent. But my intuition

was that after he brought up his poor DIL as in " she's comin' around " to eat

fish, and did I say he said, " yeah, we're all workin' on her " ???

MMMM-HMMM.--that he WAS being passive-aggressive, that maybe our stating we

are vegetarians brought out this hostility in him he's got toward his DIL.

And that maybe he thought he'd have a little cat-and-mouse game with us,

figuring that since he'd badgered poor DIL and gotten her to compromise

herself, he could just as well do that with us, strangers, on his own turf

so to speak.

But dh and I managed to handle it gracefully and graciously as well, I

think, don't you?

Still, there was probably a better way to handle it. I mean, I feel like

lookin' back now I should have said somethin' about his DIL more directly,

probably. More than, in response to " My DIL is a vegetarian, " me: " Oh, that's

great! " ...and then not sayin' anything in response to, " But my son's been

workin' on her, and she's eatin' some fish now. " O'course, my face no doubt

reflected my inner nausea...I'm not good at keepin' my feelin's to myself.

So when he added, " we've ALL been workin' on her, " I answered not a word but

stared across at him as if to say, " How bullying of you! " with NOT a smile.

Well, that's my story, Mornin' Glory! <g> Feel free to dissect and

critique, with helpful suggestions please!

Bron

On 11/21/05, ~ PT ~ <patchouli_troll wrote:

>

> Here is this week's question for us all to ponder and answer

> when we can:

>

> With the holiday of food upon us here in the US, we all

> know there will be encounters with omnivores and the

> vegetarian curious. So, as a vegetarian, what is the strangest

> question that has been asked of you during past holiday

> feasts? How did you choose to respond; think you did well, or

> wish had done better? Are you ready for this year?

>

> Maybe some of our answers these next few days can help

> prepare us with ready witty and helpful responses to those

> who feel they must ask us questions about our vegetarianism.

>

> ~ pt ~

>

> P.S. Sorry i didn't get this posted yesterday as planned. i took

> a bit of a cyber-break this weekend, but now feel rested and

> refreshed! :::coffeemug salute to all:::

>

> Over the river and through the woods

> Trot fast my dapple gray.

> Spring over the ground

> Like a hunting hound

> On this Thanksgiving Day, Hey!

> Over the river and through the woods

> Now Grandmother's face I spy.

> Hurrah for the fun,

> Is the pudding done?

> Hurrah for the pumpkin pie.

> ~Ê English folksong

>

November 21, 2005

Hi Bron

Wow I am really impressed by how you dealt with this really difficult

situation. I feel sure I would have risen to the bait whilst you

managed to cruise your way right on through – well done.

Christie

November 21, 2005

I am a little more " in your face " I guess. I am a vegan and that really throws

people. They are just sure that I not only starve, but I also can't possibly

enjoy life. When I assure them otherwise then they must ask why on earth I

deprive myself. If they are serious about their question I will be gentle. But,

as many of you have probably experienced, many times they are just baiting or

being sarcastic or making fun. And so I will respond that for me I have to live

responsibly and with awareness and that I will not be party to the horrible

abuses that occur in the raising of the meat in factory farms/confinement. Nor

in the destruction of the environment. I point out that the earth is not dying,

but we are killing it and all people. I tell them that if they too saw the

videos and the conditions that occurs in the raising of our " meat " they too,

being a human being, wouldn't be eating meat, dairy, or eggs. I tell them I have

the proof with videos and would be willing to show them so that they too could

see the horrors. Most will pull back, say something like, " Oh, I don't want to

see such horrors, " and then they drop the subject. Of course the smart ass will

say, " What is on your feet? " To which I put my shoe up to show them that they

too are vegan. And I point out that all of my products that I use for personal

and household things are also vegan. Even the most stubborn finally lets it

drop. When they go that far it is my sense from them that in the end, although

they are not into it, they do admire the consistency of my lifestyle. I will not

be put on the defensive...they are the ones with the problem and need to grow

up.

LOL, rough one aren't I. However, I have had people watch the videos and go

vegan. That is wonderful to think of the animals that we are saving.

linda

" Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is very important that you do it. "

Mohandas Gandhi

linda's Growing Stitchery Projects: womyn47

November 21, 2005

Just butting in here, without having read the previous emails in this

thread. In my experience, most meat eaters are the ones that have the

limited diet. They always think we are " depriving " ourselves, when in

fact, I have a much more varied diet than the meat eaters I know. Even

in my family of origin, where we always ate lots of veggies, I find that

my family members are unwilling to extend their tastebuds to the wide

variety of foods that I enjoy. So, it's a stupid remark all the way

around for them to say we are going to starve or are somehow limited in

our diets.

mrf

linda wrote:

> I am a little more " in your face " I guess. I am a vegan and that

> really throws people. They are just sure that I not only starve, but I

> also can't possibly enjoy life.

November 21, 2005

Not so much from my family anymore, especially considering my

Dad and stepmom are vegetarian as well (a couple years before

me), but from coworkers, the whole deprivation question is the

most common. It usually comes masked in the pseudo-philosophy

" You can't live forever, you know?! " To which I respond with

an exasperated, " I know! " and follow up by addressing their

implicit underlying argument with " I really LIKE this food.

In fact, eating otherwise makes me feel like crap " or some

such similar statement.

Being lacto-ovo has advantages and disadvantages in handling

attacks. The advantage is they are often assuaged by my " at

least " eating dairy and eggs. On the other hand, and esp.,

as you point out, with regard to shoes and belts, it can be

seen as inconsistent (and it is). Sometimes this latter

fault is dealt with by saying it is " for health reasons, "

even if that is not the only reason I am vegetarian, but that

is where the " you can't live forever " bit comes in. You just

have to be prepared with the " no deprivation here! " response.

-Erin

, " linda " <lindai81@c...>

wrote:

>

> I am a little more " in your face " I guess. I am a vegan and that

really throws people. They are just sure that I not only starve, but

I also can't possibly enjoy life. When I assure them otherwise then

they must ask why on earth I deprive myself.

November 21, 2005

Well, I think that each person has their own way of doing this. Your way,

Linda, suits you. My husband and I are vegan...at this point. But either

way, vegetarian or vegan, neither is a viable choice to about 99 and 44 100

percentage of the folks we live around.I just prefer to, as I say, make

points with kindness. I was going to write a couple more expressions but I

realized right quick that they aren't really animal-friendly! That makes me

wonder how many expressions we have that are animal-hostile, that we use (or

used to use before we started getting the big picture, at least) every

day--that help to keep us and our hearts dulled to our animal

friends....Hmmmm!

Well, anyway,

I just find that it's more helpful to me to try to visualize how the other

people must be thinking and viewing the situation--and it wasn't so long ago

that I was like them. Walking a mile in someone else's moccasins is very

germane to a number of situations.

Just my two centavos'--

Bron

On 11/21/05, linda <lindai81 wrote:

>

> I am a little more " in your face " I guess. I am a vegan and that really

> throws people. They are just sure that I not only starve, but I also can't

> possibly enjoy life. When I assure them otherwise then they must ask why on

> earth I deprive myself. If they are serious about their question I will be

> gentle. But, as many of you have probably experienced, many times they are

> just baiting or being sarcastic or making fun. And so I will respond that

> for me I have to live responsibly and with awareness and that I will not be

> party to the horrible abuses that occur in the raising of the meat in

> factory farms/confinement. Nor in the destruction of the environment. I

> point out that the earth is not dying, but we are killing it and all people.

> I tell them that if they too saw the videos and the conditions that occurs

> in the raising of our " meat " they too, being a human being, wouldn't be

> eating meat, dairy, or eggs. I tell them I have the proof with videos and

> would be willing to show them so that they too could see the horrors. Most

> will pull back, say something like, " Oh, I don't want to see such horrors, "

> and then they drop the subject. Of course the smart ass will say, " What is

> on your feet? " To which I put my shoe up to show them that they too are

> vegan. And I point out that all of my products that I use for personal and

> household things are also vegan. Even the most stubborn finally lets it

> drop. When they go that far it is my sense from them that in the end,

> although they are not into it, they do admire the consistency of my

> lifestyle. I will not be put on the defensive...they are the ones with the

> problem and need to grow up.

> LOL, rough one aren't I. However, I have had people watch the videos and

> go vegan. That is wonderful to think of the animals that we are saving.

> linda

>

> " Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is very important that you

> do it. "

> Mohandas Gandhi

>

> linda's Growing Stitchery Projects: womyn47

>

November 21, 2005

I don't think I've had anything strange out of the ordinary and simple

comments that most have had.

The only advice that I could give is to not make a big thing of it. If

someone inquires about your diet just respond to them in a casual and cool

way. I think many who object to the diet are looking for some fire to get

them going primarily because they are insecure that they cannot go one meal

without some meat on their plate.

I know that may sound strange however that has been my observation with many

people. It's not necessarily that they are against you being a vegetarian,

it's more that they are threatened by it. They may even feel insecure and

perceive in their own mind that you are better then they because you can go

meatless for a period of time while they couldn't fathom the concept for

themselves.

So, be cool, act casual and be cool as a cat (or cucumber whichever you

prefer). Don't push the issue - if they are genuinely interested in your

diet, your views or reasons, they will pursue the conversation either at

that moment or later on in a calm and curious manner.

S.

On 11/21/05, ~ PT ~ wrote:

>

> Here is this week's question for us all to ponder and answer

> when we can:

>

> With the holiday of food upon us here in the US, we all

> know there will be encounters with omnivores and the

> vegetarian curious. So, as a vegetarian, what is the strangest

> question that has been asked of you during past holiday

> feasts? How did you choose to respond; think you did well, or

> wish had done better? Are you ready for this year?

>

> Maybe some of our answers these next few days can help

> prepare us with ready witty and helpful responses to those

> who feel they must ask us questions about our vegetarianism.

>

> ~ pt ~

>

> P.S. Sorry i didn't get this posted yesterday as planned. i took

> a bit of a cyber-break this weekend, but now feel rested and

> refreshed! :::coffeemug salute to all:::

>

November 21, 2005

> With the holiday of food upon us here in the US, we all

> know there will be encounters with omnivores and the

> vegetarian curious. So, as a vegetarian, what is the strangest

> question that has been asked of you during past holiday

> feasts?

i can't recall any weird questions that have been asked of me

at our hanksgiving gathering... except this one time.

A guy asked me if i ever miss eating meat.

i laughed and told him no i don't miss it at all, it never

makes my mouth water to smell it, and i am not the sort

of person who would ever last on any deprivation diet,

so if i felt deprived i likely would have gone back to eating

meat again.

>How did you choose to respond; think you did well, or

> wish had done better?

i always wish i could have done better. *lol* Anyone have

some cool comebacks? [kind & lighthearted are prefered]

Are you ready for this year?

i think i am... always makes me a bit nervous though.

i have a bit of social anxiety and this gathering is

gearing up to be quite large; always a lot of new people

to meet, too.

i have been having trouble finding french-cut frozen

green beans in any of the stores. Seems as soon as

they stock the freezer they get all bought out this time

of year. i am in charge of making the green bean casserole,

and the hostess always wants traditional dishes like this

made without many changes. But regular cut green beans

will just have to do. *lol*

~ pt ~

In harvest time, harvest-folk, servants and all,

Should make altogether good cheer in the hall.

~ Thomas Tusser, Five Hundred Points of Good

Husbandry: August's Husbandry.

November 21, 2005

On 11/21/05, ~ PT ~ wrote:

> i always wish i could have done better. *lol* Anyone have

> some cool comebacks? [kind & lighthearted are prefered]

Can someone clever do something with " meet " and " meat " ?

There are two types of " meat " in this world and I enjoy only one type

- to " meet " you was an absolute pleasure.

Is that too corny? lol.

> i have been having trouble finding french-cut frozen

> green beans in any of the stores. Seems as soon as

> they stock the freezer they get all bought out this time

> of year. i am in charge of making the green bean casserole,

> and the hostess always wants traditional dishes like this

> made without many changes. But regular cut green beans

> will just have to do. *lol*

Has anyone ever been fooled by grabbing a can of " fresh " cut

greenbeans when you assumed by quickly glancing that it read " french "

cut greenbeans.

I noticed two different varieties of canned green beans this year

(perhaps they have been out there and I just don't buy them frequently

enough) - The first was " whole " green beans and the second was

" seasoned " green beans. I believe the latter contained bits of onion,

bell pepper and something else (perhaps garlic).

S.

November 21, 2005

Bottom line is that each person has their own way. And that is perfectly okay.

Some of our responses are based on who we are dealing with and it is also

dependent on why one is a vegetarian. If one is vegetarian due to the horrific

and terrible abuses that are occurring to the animals in confinement/farm

factoried situations (and about 90% of your meat, dairy, eggs are) and one is

attempting to improve the conditions for the farm factory animals and actively

working to that end then one is not going to just " be cool, " but will tell the

truth. I am not a vegan with a special diet. I am a vegan for the lives that

are being grossly abused, animals that have no power of their own, that are

defenseless, that have only us to depend on to see that they are not

horrifically abused. I have this belief that if people actually saw, either in

person or through videos, the mercilessness that animal goes through to satisfy

their taste buds then they would never let a piece of meat, eggs or dairy pass

their lips again. I trust in the fact that people would never tolerate this

horrible violence that is inflicted on helpless animals. For me this is not

about diet, about health, it is about taking part in other sentient beings being

crucified daily. For those that are doing it for dietary reasons they can be

cool about it. But if they too saw the videos they would be vegetarian/vegan for

a whole different reason. I am sure that I sound like I would come on too

accusatorily...not true, just not that I won't NOT tell the truth about why I am

a Vegan. They can do what they will with that. One can easily go to the PETA

site and see loads of various videos there for free, such as Meet Your Meat,

videos on the various situations that animals are subjected to such as China

trapping dogs and cats to be skinned alive and used (and mislabeled) for fur

trim and then shipped to the US. Of you are a vegetarian though just for the

diet aspect of it then skip the videos. Because watching the videos won't let

you sleep well.

linda

" Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is very important that you do it. "

Mohandas Gandhi

-

subprong

The only advice that I could give is to not make a big thing of it. If

someone inquires about your diet just respond to them in a casual and cool

way.

So, be cool, act casual and be cool as a cat (or cucumber whichever you

prefer). Don't push the issue - if they are genuinely interested in your

diet, your views or reasons, they will pursue the conversation either at

that moment or later on in a calm and curious manner.

November 21, 2005

Hi Linda. First off let me say that you are right in that everyone

won't or even shouldn't act the way I suggested. I should have stated

that the specific behavior that I mentioned seems to work for me.

Yes, indeedy, we have different reasons for our diets and that will

dictate different levels of emotions for different people. That may

be primarily why it's easier for me to act calm as my reasons aren't

probably as " intense " as others (I'll refrain from using " important "

since I don't think ones reason should be held higher than another).

I guess my overall take would be that it seems that most people don't

take to hostility, abrasiveness or aggressiveness well with most

subjects. (Again, I should state that this is my personal view or

opinion). It seems that with many serious topics such as

vegetarianism to religion to politics and everything in between,

people aren't as accepting to listen to a view point objectively from

a person who has a preaching type of verbal force. That is why I try

to take a more casual approach. (Not to suggest that one way is

better than another - just that it works better for me).

That being said, my diet choice wasn't mainly for animal rights.

You brought up PETA. Please let me preface this example in stating

that I'm not necessarily a fan of or disapprove of the organization.

I'm just going to bring them up as an example because of some press

they got today.

I saw on the news networks that PETA released a comic book (being

catered to fishing groups). The comic book basically stated to

children that their parents catching and killing of fish are the same

as them killing their own pet dogs and cats. It went on to hint that

these children's parents murdered these animals and that they

themselves should lock up their pets because their pet dog or cat

could be next. It also went onto say that eating fish is poisonous

(because of high mercury levels) and that it would rot your brain.

Ok, so I may have some of the details a bit mixed up because I've only

heard/seen this from the news networks and not first hand - which is

partially my point. I wouldn't dispute the facts, just how they were

presented.

PETA has some extreme tactics. While they do seem to get attention

around the world and a few blurbs from the media during their protest

sessions, how much further are they actually persuading their target

audience with their aggressive tactics? If you heard from some of the

media sources today, I'd say they don't really have a whole lot of

respect from the media which could very well help their cause - and

that might be because of how they force the issue.

Anywho, that is just an example. I'm not wishing a PETA flame war.

Like I said, I don't really have an extreme opinion on them one way or

the other. I just happened to see this on the news a bit ago.

Shawn

On 11/21/05, linda wrote:

> Bottom line is that each person has their own way. And that is perfectly

> okay. Some of our responses are based on who we are dealing with and it is

> also dependent on why one is a vegetarian. If one is vegetarian due to the

> horrific and terrible abuses that are occurring to the animals in

> confinement/farm factoried situations (and about 90% of your meat, dairy,

> eggs are) and one is attempting to improve the conditions for the farm

> factory animals and actively working to that end then one is not going to

> just " be cool, " but will tell the truth. I am not a vegan with a special

> diet. I am a vegan for the lives that are being grossly abused, animals that

> have no power of their own, that are defenseless, that have only us to

> depend on to see that they are not horrifically abused. I have this belief

> that if people actually saw, either in person or through videos, the

> mercilessness that animal goes through to satisfy their taste buds then they

> would never let a piece of meat, eggs or dairy pass their lips again. I

> trust in the fact that people would never tolerate this horrible violence

> that is inflicted on helpless animals. For me this is not about diet, about

> health, it is about taking part in other sentient beings being crucified

> daily. For those that are doing it for dietary reasons they can be cool

> about it. But if they too saw the videos they would be vegetarian/vegan for

> a whole different reason. I am sure that I sound like I would come on too

> accusatorily...not true, just not that I won't NOT tell the truth about why

> I am a Vegan. They can do what they will with that. One can easily go to the

> PETA site and see loads of various videos there for free, such as Meet Your

> Meat, videos on the various situations that animals are subjected to such as

> China trapping dogs and cats to be skinned alive and used (and mislabeled)

> for fur trim and then shipped to the US. Of you are a vegetarian though just

> for the diet aspect of it then skip the videos. Because watching the videos

> won't let you sleep well.

> linda

>

> " Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is very important that you do

> it. "

> Mohandas Gandhi

>

November 22, 2005

You are right. You need to see the comic book first hand and not through the

eyes of the media. If this is indeed how they portrayed the book they have

engaged in horribly bias journalism and distortion. I have lots of books for

children from PETA and other animal welfare org and none of them have anything

remotely inappropriate or contain what you describe in them. I have Share the

World video..Everyone Matters. It is a video used in schools. One of the bottom

lines is this. When people develop active compassion for animals and I mean an

active compassion, it opens their hearts and spills out to all sentient beings.

One example of what you cite in the PETA book: " It went on to hint that these

children's parents murdered these animals and that they themselves should lock

up their pets because their pet dog or cat could be next. " I will stick my neck

out and say this is a distortion. What animal welfare attempts to do is to get

people to stop and think. I am sure that the book doesn't say or imply what the

media said in this " news " piece. What it probably was doing was to get children

to think about what the difference is between eating a pig as opposed to eating

a dog. Pigs have been shown to be at least as bright as the family dog. And

don't they both have feelings, both feel pain? Why is it okay to eat a pig and

not a dog, which other cultures do by the way? The literature that PETA and

other animal welfare places do is try to get children to see all animals as

other sentient beings too. As to the mercury poisoning...tis true. Eat farm

factoried fish and you are getting into a worse situation with toxins. This is

not a PETA thing, this is a scientific thing. And mercury will rot your brain.

It sounds as if you think that someone (me in particular) who is a vegan for

animals and will tell people the truth about why I am a vegan must come across

as hostile, abrasive, or aggressive. I assure you I don't. Telling the truth

doesn't have to come across that way. I would agree with you that that attitude

would be a turn off to someone and then one would never have the chance to get

through to the person the truth. And truth is the most powerful tool that we

have in getting laws passed to protect the welfare of animals. You can take that

soft approach because you are doing it for other reasons than saving animals

from torture...but if you educated yourself and if you go and look at the videos

you would see that it is truly torture, horrific, unrelenting, pervasive and

that factory farming is the scourge of our time. Then if you read further about

the entire issue you would also find that factory farming is devastating to the

environment. Not the only devastating thing happening to the environment, but

certainly a large piece. You then might be vegetarian/vegan for different

reasons. Sometimes we change our reasons for being vegetarian/vegan because of

the discovery. I also know that people who become vegetarian/vegan after

discovering stay more committed...getting rid of those pictures in your head of

the horror of what you are perpetuating when eating meat does not easily go

away. I sense that you are a caring person, just haven't wanted to expose

yourself to the truth of factory farmed animals. Then you might understand the

animal welfare activists. Because if you saw them skinning an animal who is

fully alive, leaving it with no outer skin on its body, seeing it still

struggling to maintain its life and looking around would you not feel

compassion? Brutal isn't it? And that same, and other brutalities, happens to

billions and billions of animals on a daily basis 365 days a week. On the farm

factories, in the research laboratories, in the getting of the fur for clothing,

etc.

PETA has done more to improve the conditions of animals world wide than any

other organization. Extreme tactics? Depends on how educated you are about what

the conditions or treatment of animals is...and what I am suspecting is that you

think the throwing of blood onto people wearing fur is extreme. There are

organizations that are considered extreme, ALF and ELF. But that is not PETA nor

does PETA support those actions. Well, that did get the attention of the public

and brought to the forefront the horrors of how fur is gotten. Not something

that I would do, but I do slap stickers with the picture of a skinned fox onto

fur clothing to get the person looking at it to stop and think. (the clothing

is on the rack) You keep citing the media's opinion as to the worthiness of what

PETA and other animal welfare orgs do. Hope people get their values from

somewhere else since the media isn't even good at bringing us the truth about

much of anything else except for some brave journalists...our media is

controlled and owned by large corporations which have as their overall goal to

control what goes out over the air waves to protect their bottom line. PETA is

not allowed access to the public news programs for the most part due to the

corporations that own them. If people knew and saw the pictures of the realities

of how animals are treated on the factory farms there would be outrage and the

public would demand that animals for food be raised and slaughtered in a humane

manner. As it is what PETA has gotten out has gotten laws passed which has given

a small measure of protection to some animals. One step at a time. PETA wouldn't

have to engage in what you see (although outdated I think) as extreme tactics if

people were allowed and open to seeing the truth. As I tried to say before and

must not have, is go see the videos for yourself, do the research, educate

yourself on the treatment of animals and then come back and tell me that you are

still not a vegetarian/vegan for animals. Tell me that the horrors faced by the

animals is not something worth being a truth teller for.

linda

I guess my overall take would be that it seems that most people don't

take to hostility, abrasiveness or aggressiveness well with most

subjects. (Again, I should state that this is my personal view or

opinion). It seems that with many serious topics such as

vegetarianism to religion to politics and everything in between,

people aren't as accepting to listen to a view point objectively from

a person who has a preaching type of verbal force.