Guest guest Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 I just planted some yesterday, this will be my first attempt at growing anything!! ) Rachel ~ http://www.thelucastribe.com ~ KUSTOMIZED KIDS ~ http://www.cafepress.com/kustomizedkids Children's/Pregnancy/Natural Parenting/Personalized Clothing Designs HALLOWEEN DESIGNS ARE UP! Now that I've vented too, hopefully we can buy spinach soon. I'm tempted to start growing some of my greens in earthboxes and containers so that I can just go out and pick a few leaves every day and I know that there are no chemicals on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 Yes, I keep hearing over and over that the demand for organic (which is a good thing) has caused lesser quality organics. It is still better than conventional, especially those heavily treated items like spinach and peppers. Don't give up on organic. The farms and companies need to find a way to keep up with demand without sacrificing quality and the spirit of organics. I live in Tn and wonder can I grow spinach at thin point in the year in large pots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 Here's a map of hardiness zones in the US, select your area from the drop down menu. Many greens will winter over but it depends how frosty you get http://www.hostas.com/cgi-bin/usda.pl?state=usa & B1=Show+Map Start with organic seed for a healthier plant Spinach LOVES worm tea. So does kale. Life is a sexually transmitted terminal condition Peace, Diane , " Melissa " <mapalicka wrote: > > Yes, I keep hearing over and over that the demand for organic (which is a good thing) has > caused lesser quality organics. It is still better than conventional, especially those heavily > treated items like spinach and peppers. Don't give up on organic. The farms and > companies need to find a way to keep up with demand without sacrificing quality and the > spirit of organics. > I live in Tn and wonder can I grow spinach at thin point in the year in large pots? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 It's sewage runoff, that's from us. You can't avoid E.coli, it's in the birds and rabbits, racoons, all the animals in the fields too. Janis , Gary Mattingly <gsmattingly wrote: > > Here's something that crossed my mind. > If any part of the news is true it would > seem that the E. coli originates from cattle. > If fewer people (no people?) ate cattle, > fewer cattle would be bred and raised. > Fewer cattle -> less runoff into rivers. > Now admittedly it might also be true if > cattle raisers simply did away with feed lots > and did away with factory farming, the likelihood > of runoff into water would probably also decrease. > > Admittedly if the spinach growers did more to > cleaning the water and fertilizer they use > (I'm guessing that this is possible. I'm not > nor have I ever been a large-scale farmer. I've > raised a few tomato plants . . .) they might not > have this problem but the source is still the > cattle or one might say the real causative agent > is the human raising the cattle and conditions > under which they are raised. > > Just my thoughts. > > Gary > > http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article? AID=/20060915/NEWS99/60915036/1008/NEWS06 > <http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article? AID=/20060915/NEWS99/60915036/1008/NEWS06> > > " The strain of E. coli common in food is known as > 0157. E. coli is present in cattle intestines and so > carried in their feces. On the rare occasions it gets > into the food supply, it typically is in ground beef > and not in vegetables. > > But E. coli can be present in water used to irrigate > fields, in fertilizer, or run-off from fields. It also > can be present in processing and packaging plants. " > > --- Melissa <mapalicka wrote: > > > Yes, I keep hearing over and over that the demand > > for organic (which is a good thing) has > > caused lesser quality organics. It is still better > > than conventional, especially those heavily > > treated items like spinach and peppers. Don't give > > up on organic. The farms and > > companies need to find a way to keep up with demand > > without sacrificing quality and the > > spirit of organics. > > I live in Tn and wonder can I grow spinach at thin > > point in the year in large pots? > > > gsmattingly > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 If there is a CSA in your area, this is far better than buying at a supermarket. http://www.localharvest.org/csa/ Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 -Gary, A couple years ago some people in our state of Colorado were upset because they heard that treated human sewage was being shipped into our state from 'back East' and used as fertilizer on food crops here. As far as I know it was and still is. Our city also uses treated human sewage to water the grass in our city park and golf course. Deanna-- In , Gary Mattingly <gsmattingly wrote: > > Ah well, just an idle thought. Doesn't > human sewage get treated at sewage treatment > plants? Or does the e coli remain after the > treatment? > > Gary > > --- jandor9 <jandor9 wrote: > > > It's sewage runoff, that's from us. You can't avoid > > E.coli, it's in > > the birds and rabbits, racoons, all the animals in > > the fields too. > > > > Janis , Gary > > Mattingly > > <gsmattingly@> wrote: > > > > > > Here's something that crossed my mind. > > > If any part of the news is true it would > > > seem that the E. coli originates from cattle. > > > If fewer people (no people?) ate cattle, > > > fewer cattle would be bred and raised. > > > Fewer cattle -> less runoff into rivers. > > > Now admittedly it might also be true if > > > cattle raisers simply did away with feed lots > > > and did away with factory farming, the likelihood > > > of runoff into water would probably also decrease. > > > > > > Admittedly if the spinach growers did more to > > > cleaning the water and fertilizer they use > > > (I'm guessing that this is possible. I'm not > > > nor have I ever been a large-scale farmer. I've > > > raised a few tomato plants . . .) they might not > > > have this problem but the source is still the > > > cattle or one might say the real causative agent > > > is the human raising the cattle and conditions > > > under which they are raised. > > > > > > Just my thoughts. > > > > > > Gary > > > > > > http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article? > > AID=/20060915/NEWS99/60915036/1008/NEWS06 > > > <http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article? > > AID=/20060915/NEWS99/60915036/1008/NEWS06> > > > > > > " The strain of E. coli common in food is known as > > > 0157. E. coli is present in cattle intestines and > > so > > > carried in their feces. On the rare occasions it > > gets > > > into the food supply, it typically is in ground > > beef > > > and not in vegetables. > > > > > > But E. coli can be present in water used to > > irrigate > > > fields, in fertilizer, or run-off from fields. It > > also > > > can be present in processing and packaging > > plants. " > > > > > > > gsmattingly > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 They are having problems with their sewage system in the Salinas Valley area. Read where I put the **** ar the end first, then go back and read the rest. On page 2 of the 2001 Annual Report on the Control Of Pathogens: http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Place/53442000/AnnualReports/Annu alReport2001/2001AssessmentAndControlOfPathogens.pdf#search='salinas% 20valley%20sewage%20treatment%20bacterial%20problems' PROJECT SUMMARY Population growth and water shortages will increase the need to use treated wastewater effluent for irrigation, particularly in areas where fresh water resources are limited. However, there are serious concerns about the transmission of pathogens and toxic chemicals from municipal and animal wastewater to agricultural land and crops and thus to human food and to groundwater. An increase in foodborne disease in the US has been attributed in part to the transmission of pathogens in the water used for irrigation of edible crops. Furthermore, there is limited knowledge on the long-term effects of irrigation with sewage effluent on soil and underlying groundwater. Thus, the aim of this research project is to assess the microbiological safety of wastewater irrigation of food crops and potential environmental hazards in order to protect the public health and our future groundwater resources. Molecular biology techniques will be used to evaluate pathogen survival, regrowth, and transport in vegetated and non-vegetated soil columns, water distribution systems, and field sites with a long history of wastewater application for crop irrigation. Studies will determine the movement of pathogens through the soil column as well as the factors affecting their survival and transport. This could lead to the development of management strategies that would minimize the introduction of pathogens into the environment and thus reduce the risk to human health. Or this on page 4 same article: in the Northern Monterey County portion of the Salinas Valley, over 11,850 acres are being irrigated with tertiary wastewater effluent for the production of various crops including artichokes, head lettuce, celery, broccoli, and cauliflower (Israel, 2000). Many of these crops are washed and bagged for raw consumption in many parts of the country. In Bakersfield, California, approximately 5,100 acres of corn, alfalfa, cotton, barley and sugar beets are being irrigated with more than 16.9 million gallons per day of primary and secondary wastewater effluents. In Tallahassee, Florida, approximately 18 million gallons per day of secondary effluent are being pumped through 8.5 miles of pipeline to irrigate 1,729 acres of food crops by spray irrigation. Although the use of wastewater for irrigation is increasing, the risks to public health and the long-term effects on groundwater quality are largely unknown and deserve attention. BEST ONE YET on page 4: Municipal wastewater contains a variety of viral and bacterial pathogens (Table 1) that have been excreted in the feces of infected individuals. Some of the most common pathogens found in raw wastewater include Salmonella (Asano, 1998), Mycobacterium, Escherichia coli (Tsai et al., 1993; Grant et al., 1996), and Campylobacter jejuni (Jones, 2001). Hence, the use of reclaimed water for crop irrigation requires pretreatment followed by disinfection in order to minimize the risk of disease transmission. ****However, wastewater treatment only reduces the amounts of pathogens in finished water and does not eradicate the disease agent (Asano, 1998). For example, it has been reported that even though Campylobacter can be reduced during treatment to 99.9%, there are 1010 Campylobacters left in the treated effluent (Arimi et al., 1988). This is of great concern since the infective dose of Campylobacter in humans is low (~500 cells). In fact, Campylobacter infections exceed those of previously most commonly reported enteric bacterial infections in the U.S. and it is the number one cause of all domestic foodborne illness (Okum, 2000). In addition, Campylobacters have been found in vegetables such as spinach, lettuce, and parsley (Kumar et al., 2001). Thus, the potential transmission of infectious disease by pathogenic agents is the most common concern associated with nonpotable reuse of treated municipal wastewater.****** Janis , Gary Mattingly <gsmattingly wrote: > > Ah well, just an idle thought. Doesn't > human sewage get treated at sewage treatment > plants? Or does the e coli remain after the > treatment? > > Gary > > --- jandor9 <jandor9 wrote: > > > It's sewage runoff, that's from us. You can't avoid > > E.coli, it's in > > the birds and rabbits, racoons, all the animals in > > the fields too. > > > > Janis , Gary > > Mattingly > > <gsmattingly@> wrote: > > > > > > Here's something that crossed my mind. > > > If any part of the news is true it would > > > seem that the E. coli originates from cattle. > > > If fewer people (no people?) ate cattle, > > > fewer cattle would be bred and raised. > > > Fewer cattle -> less runoff into rivers. > > > Now admittedly it might also be true if > > > cattle raisers simply did away with feed lots > > > and did away with factory farming, the likelihood > > > of runoff into water would probably also decrease. > > > > > > Admittedly if the spinach growers did more to > > > cleaning the water and fertilizer they use > > > (I'm guessing that this is possible. I'm not > > > nor have I ever been a large-scale farmer. I've > > > raised a few tomato plants . . .) they might not > > > have this problem but the source is still the > > > cattle or one might say the real causative agent > > > is the human raising the cattle and conditions > > > under which they are raised. > > > > > > Just my thoughts. > > > > > > Gary > > > > > > http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article? > > AID=/20060915/NEWS99/60915036/1008/NEWS06 > > > <http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article? > > AID=/20060915/NEWS99/60915036/1008/NEWS06> > > > > > > " The strain of E. coli common in food is known as > > > 0157. E. coli is present in cattle intestines and > > so > > > carried in their feces. On the rare occasions it > > gets > > > into the food supply, it typically is in ground > > beef > > > and not in vegetables. > > > > > > But E. coli can be present in water used to > > irrigate > > > fields, in fertilizer, or run-off from fields. It > > also > > > can be present in processing and packaging > > plants. " > > > > > > > gsmattingly > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 I feel like we are in the movie " Soylent Green " !!! Let's face it, there are so many of us there is no place to put all our poop!!!And not for nothing folks, the more vegatative matter you consume the more comes back out of you. The problem is that they have to use chemicals like chlorine to try to kill the germs in the aeration ponds they use to treat the sewage and even that is causing huge problems with water pollution. Not to mention all the PESTICIDES they have to spray on the aeration ponds to kill all the flies and mosquitos the " Effluent " attract like an all you can eat buffet!! They pick up the bacteria in the sludge you know...And then it all winds up in the water supply. I just posted pieces of an article that says that they can't kill 100% the germs and they don't know if they GROW BACK. Add that to the sewage runoff from flooded aeration ponds and it's just a disaster waiting to happen. We are damn lucky there have only been 20 outbreaks of E.coli in the past 11 years!! Janis , " genny_y2k " <genny_y2k wrote: > > -Gary, > A couple years ago some people in our state of Colorado were upset > because they heard that treated human sewage was being shipped into > our state from 'back East' and used as fertilizer on food crops here. > As far as I know it was and still is. Our city also uses treated > human sewage to water the grass in our city park and golf course. > Deanna-- In , Gary Mattingly > <gsmattingly@> wrote: > > > > Ah well, just an idle thought. Doesn't > > human sewage get treated at sewage treatment > > plants? Or does the e coli remain after the > > treatment? > > > > Gary > > > > --- jandor9 <jandor9@> wrote: > > > > > It's sewage runoff, that's from us. You can't avoid > > > E.coli, it's in > > > the birds and rabbits, racoons, all the animals in > > > the fields too. > > > > > > Janis , Gary > > > Mattingly > > > <gsmattingly@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Here's something that crossed my mind. > > > > If any part of the news is true it would > > > > seem that the E. coli originates from cattle. > > > > If fewer people (no people?) ate cattle, > > > > fewer cattle would be bred and raised. > > > > Fewer cattle -> less runoff into rivers. > > > > Now admittedly it might also be true if > > > > cattle raisers simply did away with feed lots > > > > and did away with factory farming, the likelihood > > > > of runoff into water would probably also decrease. > > > > > > > > Admittedly if the spinach growers did more to > > > > cleaning the water and fertilizer they use > > > > (I'm guessing that this is possible. I'm not > > > > nor have I ever been a large-scale farmer. I've > > > > raised a few tomato plants . . .) they might not > > > > have this problem but the source is still the > > > > cattle or one might say the real causative agent > > > > is the human raising the cattle and conditions > > > > under which they are raised. > > > > > > > > Just my thoughts. > > > > > > > > Gary > > > > > > > > http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article? > > > AID=/20060915/NEWS99/60915036/1008/NEWS06 > > > > <http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article? > > > AID=/20060915/NEWS99/60915036/1008/NEWS06> > > > > > > > > " The strain of E. coli common in food is known as > > > > 0157. E. coli is present in cattle intestines and > > > so > > > > carried in their feces. On the rare occasions it > > > gets > > > > into the food supply, it typically is in ground > > > beef > > > > and not in vegetables. > > > > > > > > But E. coli can be present in water used to > > > irrigate > > > > fields, in fertilizer, or run-off from fields. It > > > also > > > > can be present in processing and packaging > > > plants. " > > > > > > > > > > > gsmattingly@ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 I agree. Sustainable farming keeps waste products on the farm and takes measures to insure groundwater isn't contaminated. I think sustainability is key. Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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