Guest guest Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 Very interesting and refreshing to read. Do we have the " original " definition of the term vegetarian(ism)? Was the Webster's version the same as others? It is always interesting that people assume that if you are vegetarian that you are doing it for animal rights or non-violence against animals. In fact, there are various reasons. I suppose a person who chose the diet for animal rights might think a lacto-vegetarian isn't a vegetarian because, to them, milking a cow with machines, standing side-by-side and how/what they might go through in the process may be considered violent to them. Though as you state according to that Websters definition, a lacto vegetarian fits the description accurately. ...and yet simply as a " vegetarian " . This is probably why the terms lacto or ova were introduced into the vegetarian labels. Then for those that think baby chicks appear out of nowhere like magic (according to the Starburst lady) and whom eat chicken, then came along a pollo-veg, then the cold blooded pesce(a)-veg and so on and so forth. Now there will be flexi-pollo-lacto vegetarians. That will be tough to rhyme! Oh btw, I did not realize (or remember) that some sources of Vit D came from fish oil. Thanks for that information. Hope to hear from ya soon, Cuppa_2a. S. On 3/15/06, cuppa_2u <> wrote: > > Okay, I think that the definition of vegetarian is not clear to most > people... because some draw their veggie line in the sand with > different size sticks. Vegan,...Lacto... > > This causes confusion to the onlooker or novice. However, to > understand the term, one must understand that an underlying > philosophy is built into the word itself. The term vegetarian stands > on its own: it stands on a principle of a non-violent diet. > > A person may opt to become vegetarian for health only or other > reasons, but that doesn't change the meaning of the word. > > I want to post Webster's specific definition verbatim : > > vegetarian, n. > one that believes in or practices living on a diet of vegetables, > fruits, grains, nuts , and sometimes animal products (as milk and > cheese)--vegetarian adj. vegetarianism n. > > That Webster's has used the word " believes " indicates that a belief > is connected to the word--the philosophy which is inherent. > > For Example: I'm a lacto-vegetarian which means I use milk products > but do not take eggs, fish, or meat. In addition, however I do not > eat cheeses with rennet, nor do I use milk that contains vitamin D > which has its source as fish oil. > > Although the categories of the word vegetarian differ...It has its > boundaries in meaning, which are not just the tools of semantics. If > you kill an animal to eat it, you're not eating a vegetarian diet. If > you kill a vegetable to eat it, you are still eating a vegetarian > diet. > Pertinent to this tenet is that cows aren't directly slaughtered for > their milk. I think you have to think clearly in terms of direct > cause and effect. Otherwise the logic is lost in the muddle, and we > extend or contract the definition, ad nauseam. > > I'm not trying to say people who are " striving " to become vegetarians > are without merit! I'm just saying that being vegetarian is like > being pregnant, either you are or you aren't! > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 }{a }{a you don't get it...reread the it with an open mind...then pick up a dictionary sometime and something on a practical Non violent philosophy and while you're at it pick a book of poetry! It will broaden your }{orizons , " linda " <lindai81 wrote: > > Now just where did you come up with that idea? No, not true.Ludicrous idea > actually. I distinguish between those that are vegetarians and those that > are vegans all of whom do so for their own personal reasons. I don't > eat/drink dairy because cows are milked with machines and stand side by > side. LOL Cows are forced to have calves back to back and the babies are > taken from them right after birth to the distress of the mother and calve. > The cows are pumped full of hormones and antibiotics. In some farm factories > they are now being kept in the stalls day and night in order to get the most > milk from them with the least cost. If you have seen those Happy Cow > California Milk / Cheese commercials I can tell you from personal > observations that is absolutely not true. If you travel the I-5 in > California you can see dairy cows in pens that look like feed lots...nothing > but mud, but with tiny elevations where they can try to get out of the mud. > It is disgusting. The cows are so over milked and treated with hormones that > many have udders dragging on the ground. Mastitis is rampant. Not a normal > thing to happen. The more they are milked the more milk they will give so > the natural rhythms are ignored and they are milked more frequently. They > are sent to slaughter for hamburger when their milk production declines > usually by the age of five and usually at age 3-4. And I might add, long > before signs of Mad Cow disease can show up. It takes years for outward > symptoms to show up. The cow that was just found to have mad cow disease was > ten years old as I understand it. A non-factoried cow will live 25 years. > For those that are still eating hamburger it is usually from dairy cows that > have been exhausted and can't give the enormous amount of milk demanded. > They are now expected and forced to give 100 pounds of milk today, ten times > more than they would naturally. Try this site to see why I don't drink or > eat dairy. http://www.factoryfarming.com/dairy.htm And what do you think > they do with all of those male baby cows that come from the dairy cow? Veal. > That is the primary source of veal, which by the way is on the increase as > people forget the horrors of what happens to those babies. Will you do me > the favor Shawn and read it? Love ya' and now off to boil the frozen tofu. > linda > > " subprong " <subprong > > I suppose a person who chose the diet for > > animal rights might think a lacto-vegetarian isn't a vegetarian because, > to > > them, milking a cow with machines, standing side-by-side and how/what they > > might go through in the process may be considered violent to them. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 WEll thank ya suprong and I just knew a fellow poet would appreciate the word thing by webster's.. I'm glad to let you in on the vitamin D thing...In fact sometimes, vitamin A is from an animal source in liquid milk too...it's a mess out there... haha , subprong <subprong wrote: > > Very interesting and refreshing to read. Do we have the " original " > definition of the term vegetarian(ism)? Was the Webster's version the same > as others? > > It is always interesting that people assume that if you are vegetarian that > you are doing it for animal rights or non-violence against animals. In > fact, there are various reasons. I suppose a person who chose the diet for > animal rights might think a lacto-vegetarian isn't a vegetarian because, to > them, milking a cow with machines, standing side-by-side and how/what they > might go through in the process may be considered violent to them. > > Though as you state according to that Websters definition, a lacto > vegetarian fits the description accurately. ...and yet simply as a > " vegetarian " . This is probably why the terms lacto or ova were introduced > into the vegetarian labels. > > Then for those that think baby chicks appear out of nowhere like magic > (according to the Starburst lady) and whom eat chicken, then came along a > pollo-veg, then the cold blooded pesce(a)-veg and so on and so forth. Now > there will be flexi-pollo-lacto vegetarians. That will be tough to rhyme! > > > Oh btw, I did not realize (or remember) that some sources of Vit D came from > fish oil. Thanks for that information. Hope to hear from ya soon, > Cuppa_2a. > > S. > > On 3/15/06, cuppa_2u <> wrote: > > > > Okay, I think that the definition of vegetarian is not clear to most > > people... because some draw their veggie line in the sand with > > different size sticks. Vegan,...Lacto... > > > > This causes confusion to the onlooker or novice. However, to > > understand the term, one must understand that an underlying > > philosophy is built into the word itself. The term vegetarian stands > > on its own: it stands on a principle of a non-violent diet. > > > > A person may opt to become vegetarian for health only or other > > reasons, but that doesn't change the meaning of the word. > > > > I want to post Webster's specific definition verbatim : > > > > vegetarian, n. > > one that believes in or practices living on a diet of vegetables, > > fruits, grains, nuts , and sometimes animal products (as milk and > > cheese)--vegetarian adj. vegetarianism n. > > > > That Webster's has used the word " believes " indicates that a belief > > is connected to the word--the philosophy which is inherent. > > > > For Example: I'm a lacto-vegetarian which means I use milk products > > but do not take eggs, fish, or meat. In addition, however I do not > > eat cheeses with rennet, nor do I use milk that contains vitamin D > > which has its source as fish oil. > > > > Although the categories of the word vegetarian differ...It has its > > boundaries in meaning, which are not just the tools of semantics. If > > you kill an animal to eat it, you're not eating a vegetarian diet. If > > you kill a vegetable to eat it, you are still eating a vegetarian > > diet. > > Pertinent to this tenet is that cows aren't directly slaughtered for > > their milk. I think you have to think clearly in terms of direct > > cause and effect. Otherwise the logic is lost in the muddle, and we > > extend or contract the definition, ad nauseam. > > > > I'm not trying to say people who are " striving " to become vegetarians > > are without merit! I'm just saying that being vegetarian is like > > being pregnant, either you are or you aren't! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 I guess you didn't notice that Shawn and I are always teasing each other and that what he said painted a humorous picture in my mind. Sorry you missed that and decided to be a bit touchy. Or perhaps I have misunderstood what you have said here...is that a possibility or were you being ..... linda " cuppa_2u " <cuppa_2u > }{a }{a you don't get it...reread the it with an open mind...then > pick up a dictionary sometime and something on a practical Non > violent philosophy and while you're at it pick a book of poetry! > > It will broaden your }{orizons > > > > > , " linda " <lindai81 > wrote: > > > > Now just where did you come up with that idea? No, not > true.Ludicrous idea > > actually. I distinguish between those that are vegetarians and > those that > > are vegans all of whom do so for their own personal reasons. I > don't > > eat/drink dairy because cows are milked with machines and stand > side by > > side. LOL Cows are forced to have calves back to back and the > babies are > > taken from them right after birth to the distress of the mother and > calve. > > The cows are pumped full of hormones and antibiotics. In some farm > factories > > they are now being kept in the stalls day and night in order to get > the most > > milk from them with the least cost. If you have seen those Happy Cow > > California Milk / Cheese commercials I can tell you from personal > > observations that is absolutely not true. If you travel the I-5 in > > California you can see dairy cows in pens that look like feed > lots...nothing > > but mud, but with tiny elevations where they can try to get out of > the mud. > > It is disgusting. The cows are so over milked and treated with > hormones that > > many have udders dragging on the ground. Mastitis is rampant. Not a > normal > > thing to happen. The more they are milked the more milk they will > give so > > the natural rhythms are ignored and they are milked more > frequently. They > > are sent to slaughter for hamburger when their milk production > declines > > usually by the age of five and usually at age 3-4. And I might add, > long > > before signs of Mad Cow disease can show up. It takes years for > outward > > symptoms to show up. The cow that was just found to have mad cow > disease was > > ten years old as I understand it. A non-factoried cow will live 25 > years. > > For those that are still eating hamburger it is usually from dairy > cows that > > have been exhausted and can't give the enormous amount of milk > demanded. > > They are now expected and forced to give 100 pounds of milk today, > ten times > > more than they would naturally. Try this site to see why I don't > drink or > > eat dairy. http://www.factoryfarming.com/dairy.htm And what do > you think > > they do with all of those male baby cows that come from the dairy > cow? Veal. > > That is the primary source of veal, which by the way is on the > increase as > > people forget the horrors of what happens to those babies. Will you > do me > > the favor Shawn and read it? Love ya' and now off to boil the > frozen tofu. > > linda > > > > " subprong " <subprong > > > > I suppose a person who chose the diet for > > > animal rights might think a lacto-vegetarian isn't a vegetarian > because, > > to > > > them, milking a cow with machines, standing side-by-side and > how/what they > > > might go through in the process may be considered violent to them. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Well, I think I understand the words " ludicrous idea " ...it was my original post ....ya could have just said " I don't agree " and then explained--would have been more friendly! PS: For the record, there are several significant organic dairies that provide humane and comfortable living conditions for their animals...I have no qualms about cows having to work for a living in a good environment...I have to! , " linda " <lindai81 wrote: > > I guess you didn't notice that Shawn and I are always teasing each other and > that what he said painted a humorous picture in my mind. Sorry you missed > that and decided to be a bit touchy. Or perhaps I have misunderstood what > you have said here...is that a possibility or were you being ..... > linda > > " cuppa_2u " <cuppa_2u > > > }{a }{a you don't get it...reread the it with an open mind...then > > pick up a dictionary sometime and something on a practical Non > > violent philosophy and while you're at it pick a book of poetry! > > > > It will broaden your }{orizons > > > > > > > > > > , " linda " <lindai81@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Now just where did you come up with that idea? No, not > > true.Ludicrous idea > > > actually. I distinguish between those that are vegetarians and > > those that > > > are vegans all of whom do so for their own personal reasons. I > > don't > > > eat/drink dairy because cows are milked with machines and stand > > side by > > > side. LOL Cows are forced to have calves back to back and the > > babies are > > > taken from them right after birth to the distress of the mother and > > calve. > > > The cows are pumped full of hormones and antibiotics. In some farm > > factories > > > they are now being kept in the stalls day and night in order to get > > the most > > > milk from them with the least cost. If you have seen those Happy Cow > > > California Milk / Cheese commercials I can tell you from personal > > > observations that is absolutely not true. If you travel the I-5 in > > > California you can see dairy cows in pens that look like feed > > lots...nothing > > > but mud, but with tiny elevations where they can try to get out of > > the mud. > > > It is disgusting. The cows are so over milked and treated with > > hormones that > > > many have udders dragging on the ground. Mastitis is rampant. Not a > > normal > > > thing to happen. The more they are milked the more milk they will > > give so > > > the natural rhythms are ignored and they are milked more > > frequently. They > > > are sent to slaughter for hamburger when their milk production > > declines > > > usually by the age of five and usually at age 3-4. And I might add, > > long > > > before signs of Mad Cow disease can show up. It takes years for > > outward > > > symptoms to show up. The cow that was just found to have mad cow > > disease was > > > ten years old as I understand it. A non-factoried cow will live 25 > > years. > > > For those that are still eating hamburger it is usually from dairy > > cows that > > > have been exhausted and can't give the enormous amount of milk > > demanded. > > > They are now expected and forced to give 100 pounds of milk today, > > ten times > > > more than they would naturally. Try this site to see why I don't > > drink or > > > eat dairy. http://www.factoryfarming.com/dairy.htm And what do > > you think > > > they do with all of those male baby cows that come from the dairy > > cow? Veal. > > > That is the primary source of veal, which by the way is on the > > increase as > > > people forget the horrors of what happens to those babies. Will you > > do me > > > the favor Shawn and read it? Love ya' and now off to boil the > > frozen tofu. > > > linda > > > > > > " subprong " <subprong@> > > > > > > I suppose a person who chose the diet for > > > > animal rights might think a lacto-vegetarian isn't a vegetarian > > because, > > > to > > > > them, milking a cow with machines, standing side-by-side and > > how/what they > > > > might go through in the process may be considered violent to them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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