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Plastic packaging and Caution with spinach

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If toxins and PCB's in plastic bags were of any immediate impact,

they would hopefully kill the viruses or bacteria. Unfortunately it

takes fat cells and a liver for the toxins and PCB's to build up in

over a period of time to have any effect. So, nope, plastic bags have

no impact on the issue of food bourne illness.It's not chemicals,

it's good old fashioned viruses and bacteria.

 

Janis

 

, Cheryl <starborn59

wrote:

>

> Has the issue of the lettuce being in sealed plastic

> ever been addressed? I don't recall seeing anything

> but my thought is that the packaging has something to

> do with it if the outbreaks are traced to packaged

> lettuce or spinach. We all know plastic containers

> have all kinds of toxins, pcb's, etc. so would plastic

> bags sealed with live veggies in them be any

> different?

> Just wondered what everyone thought about it.

>

> Cheryl

>

> --- jandor9 <jandor9 wrote:

>

> > The FDA issued these warnings last September about

> > bagged salads too.

> > Unfortunately, they don't think that washing your

> > greens will make

> > them safe. The salads and spinach are already washed

> > several times

> > during processing. The FDA is concerned the plants

> > are picking up the

> > E.Coli from contaminated ground water, binding the

> > bacteria to the

> > plants cells. Unless we cook the greens completely,

> > there is still a

> > risk of E.coli...

> >

> > Janis

> >

> > , Mike

> > Christie <mike@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Not just spinach but lettuce. From the San Jose

> > Mercury News on

> > Tuesday:

> > >

> > > Federal and state officials have launched a

> > wide-ranging evaluation

> > > of lettuce farming and processing in the Salinas

> > Valley, hoping to

> > > determine why leafy green vegetables grown over

> > the past decade

> > have

> > > been linked to a potentially deadly strain of E.

> > coli.

> > >

> > > Lettuce and spinach grown in the valley, dubbed

> > the " Salad Bowl of

> > > the World,'' have been connected to eight of 19

> > outbreaks of

> > > Escherichia coli O157:H7, associated with such

> > produce since 1995.

> > >

> > > The whole article is at:

> > >

> >

>

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/living/health/15498285.htm

> > >

> > > (but I believe (free) membership is required to

> > see it)

> > >

> > > At 06:15 PM 9/14/2006, you wrote:

> > >

> > > >There have been e-coli outbreaks tracked to

> > bagged spinach. Be

> > > >cautious. In fact I just got this Fox news break

> > by e-mail -

> > > >

> > > >FDA URGES CONSUMERS TO AVOID BAGGED FRESH SPINACH

> > AFTER E. COLI

> > > >OUTBREAK LEAVES ONE DEAD, 50 MORE SICK IN EIGHT

> > STATES

> > > >

> > > >Debbie

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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I wash my vegetables right away.

I rarely use bagged greens, too expensive.

I have a whole collection of Tupperware and

I use it everyday,

I always wash it well and put boiled water

over it as a rinse.

 

Portia

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The E coli, Hepatitis A, whatever is already ON the produce or IN the

produce BEFORE it ever gets near plastic bags, wrap, whatever. Even if

you put them in a sealed glass jar the produce would still be

contaminated. It's not the fact that it's in sealed plastic either. If

bagged produce is kept properly in a refrigerated enviroment,it

actually retards spoilage and bacterial growth. That's why those bags

of cut washed greens are, unopened, good for at least a week if kept

cold. Throw a couple of lettuce leaves on a shelf of your fridge for a

couple of days. I don't think you would eat them. Bacteria and viruses

need warmth and moisture to thrive. Like inside our bodies.

 

 

Janis

 

, Cheryl <starborn59 wrote:

>

> But bacteria grows inside sealed containers, espec.

> plastic

>

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My sister and I were just talking about this. This whole thing just

proves to me that we get filtered news. Why wouldn't unbagged spinach

be suspect too?? This " outbreak " has been going on since late last

month. Why are we just hearing about it now when there haven't been

any new reported cases of infection since Sept 3rd.?? How do they not

know which company(ies)the bagged spinach was from after 3 weeks?

 

Nobody on TV has mentioned that " It causes an estimated 73,000 cases

of infection, including 61 deaths, each year in the United States,

according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. "

 

Gee, are we keeping something quiet here? I'm not paranoid, I'm

disgusted at the lack of information we are given. We were all

brought up to be scared of undercooked meat, but nobody mentioned

that the 2nd biggest E.coli culprit is Lettuce! This is from the CDC

folks. I think the FDA is avoiding a panic that would leave

supermarkets and farms full of rotting produce by not saying that ANY

raw fruit or veggie not completely cooked can be a carrier of E.

Coli. Even raw, unpasturized fruit juice or milk can carry it.

Remember the scallions? They weren't bagged. It is possible the

spinach bags are all produced in one farming area infected by E.coli.

Maybe the bagging machines harbor bacteria? I am surprised that since

last years salad E. coli outbreak they don't have it figured out yet.

All we can do is wash & peel all fruits and veggies and cook the heck

out as much as possible.

 

I am going to live on baked potatoes and bread!

Janis

 

 

, " Thia .... " <bipolyf

wrote:

>

> I read some info here:

> http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/salad.asp

>

> So, to my understanding, it has only been the *bagged* produce that

has been

> a problem! So how come the unbagged (loose in produce section) is

not

> having any issues? *This* has me confused! What is it about the

bags? :(

>

>

>

>

> On 9/15/06, jandor9 <jandor9 wrote:

> >

> > The E coli, Hepatitis A, whatever is already ON the produce or

IN the

> > produce BEFORE it ever gets near plastic bags, wrap, whatever.

Even if

> > you put them in a sealed glass jar the produce would still be

> > contaminated. It's not the fact that it's in sealed plastic

either. If

> > bagged produce is kept properly in a refrigerated enviroment,it

> > actually retards spoilage and bacterial growth. That's why those

bags

> > of cut washed greens are, unopened, good for at least a week if

kept

> > cold. Throw a couple of lettuce leaves on a shelf of your fridge

for a

> > couple of days. I don't think you would eat them. Bacteria and

viruses

> > need warmth and moisture to thrive. Like inside our bodies.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

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Until they figure out where the contamination is coming from I think

I'll be steering clear of the bagged stuff. As I mentioned, there was

talk on the TV that the wash water used was itself the culprit.

Disgusting!! And as I found on the CDC site the statistic nobody is

mentioning is not 91 people but 73,000 cases of E.coli a year.

I don't care to be part of that number.

 

COOK 'EM IF YOU GOT 'EM!!!

Janis

 

, " alia robinson " <aliar4

wrote:

>

> I don't know, I'm just not that concerned. I buy bagged salads, eat

them,

> and will continue to do so.

>

> Alia

>

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EXCUSE ME..This is a VEGETARIAN GROUP!!..NO CHICKENS ALLOWED!!!Ha Ha!

Just kidding. :>)

Well in this case the produce is coming home to roost. Either they

hope, right or wrong(so far), that it is confined to one spinach

farming area, or it is in the processing, like washing the produce

with E. coli contaminated water. From what I gather they don't

wash " loose " produce multiple times in a factory like the bagged

produce. A lot of it is cleaned and boxed right out in the field. I

asked the same questions...and either they are hiding the fact that

all spinach is suspect or it is (hopefully) from a localized source

and can be contained.

 

I really think that a lot of government handling of problems use

the " acceptable loss " model. Which would be worse, possibly destroy

agriculture, a HUGE segment of the economy, by telling people the

truth-that there is no way to assure the safety of plant foods for

consumption, or live with a small percent of the population getting

ill?? There is NO way to 100% prevent E. coli contamination except

grow everything in stadium sized sterile greenhouses. Bird and rabbit

poop have E. coli in it. Runoff water has E. coli in it. It's all

over the place. I hope and pray they find out it's the wash water

because that is something they CAN control.

They are gambling on us good citizens having a short memory, which we

do. We'll be eatting bagged salad and spinach in a couple of months

without a care in the world.

 

Janis

 

 

, TendrMoon wrote:

>

> In a message dated 9/16/06 7:46:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> jandor9 writes:

>

> > Until they figure out where the contamination is coming from I

think

> > I'll be steering clear of the bagged stuff.

>

> I have yet to understand why it's predominately the bagged produce

that seems

> to cause the most problems. Isn't all produce washed prior to

shipping? And

> if something is grown in contaminated soil, makes no difference if

it's

> bagged or unbagged. I think if we knew the half of it we'd all

stop eating.

>

> Every industry is looking to cut costs but when it comes down to

the health

> and safety of the consumer this comes across as shoddy business.

Someone may

> well cut their costs, but in the long run they ultimately lose when

they're

> fined and/or shut down. You can fool some of the people all of the

time and all

> of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the

people all of

> the time. Sooner or later the chickens come home to roost.

>

> TM

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Bagging does not keep produce warm unless it's in a warm enviroment.

Those bagged salads are kept cold all thru their travels until they

get to the store to keep them fresh. Think of what a salad left out

of the fridge for several hours looks like...wilted. They have cases

documented in 19 states so far. That is a lot of shipped spinach. It

seems kind of remote that it would all be from one truckload that got

very warm for a few hours. Not to mention they would have wilted

spinach. I doubt the spinach from Washinton and New York were from

the same date code too because of the dates the cases showed up and

the distance between them-thinking of transporting the greens. This

is why they are working with the possibilities of the spinach either

growing in contaminated soil/water and possibly being sprayed with

contaminated water during processing in order to have that much

E.coli bacteria embedded in the spinach. By the way, did your friend

tell you we have E. coli in our digestive systems? That's why all

those " Employees Must Wash Hands " signs are up all over.

 

COOK 'EM ALL!! >:>)

Janis

 

, " Thia .... " <bipolyf

wrote:

>

> On 9/16/06, jandor9 <jandor9 wrote:

> >

> > <snip>There is NO way to 100% prevent E. coli contamination

except

> > grow everything in stadium sized sterile greenhouses. Bird and

rabbit

> > poop have E. coli in it. Runoff water has E. coli in it. It's all

> > over the place.

> >

>

>

>

Yes.

>

> I had a friend explain to me just yesterday, that indeed, it is

everywhere.

> And the fact that it is bagged, keeps it warm and moist, which

helps it to

> multiply. We all deal with bacteria and virus everyday, but can

fend off

> low quantities naturally. It's a fact of life. But when we

encounter mass

> quantities of something (in this case, excess growth from being in

bags in

> addition to being contaminated), we have a harder time, and thus

become

> sick.

>

>

>

> No more bags for me.

>

>

>

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Glad I don't shop there!! I shop at Pathmark and Shoprite and all the

bagged stuff is in open chill cases. All the " loose " greens are in

open chill cases with cold water sprayers too.

 

Janis

 

, " Marilyn Daub " <mcdaub

wrote:

>

> Many of the grocery store produce sections are not refrigerated and

the

> bagged greens are left out over night!!

>

> Marilyn Daub

> mcdaub

> Vanceburg, KY

> My Cats Knead Me!!

> -

> jandor9

>

> Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:20 AM

> Re: Plastic packaging and Caution

with spinach

>

>

> Bagging does not keep produce warm unless it's in a warm

enviroment.

> Those bagged salads are kept cold all thru their travels until

they

> get to the store to keep them fresh. Think of what a salad left

out

> of the fridge for several hours looks like...wilted. They have

cases

> documented in 19 states so far. That is a lot of shipped spinach.

It

> seems kind of remote that it would all be from one truckload that

got

> very warm for a few hours. Not to mention they would have wilted

> spinach. I doubt the spinach from Washinton and New York were from

> the same date code too because of the dates the cases showed up

and

> the distance between them-thinking of transporting the greens.

This

> is why they are working with the possibilities of the spinach

either

> growing in contaminated soil/water and possibly being sprayed with

> contaminated water during processing in order to have that much

> E.coli bacteria embedded in the spinach. By the way, did your

friend

> tell you we have E. coli in our digestive systems? That's why all

> those " Employees Must Wash Hands " signs are up all over.

>

> COOK 'EM ALL!! >:>)

> Janis

>

> , " Thia .... " <bipolyf@>

> wrote:

> >

> > On 9/16/06, jandor9 <jandor9@> wrote:

> > >

> > > <snip>There is NO way to 100% prevent E. coli contamination

> except

> > > grow everything in stadium sized sterile greenhouses. Bird and

> rabbit

> > > poop have E. coli in it. Runoff water has E. coli in it. It's

all

> > > over the place.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Yes.

> >

> > I had a friend explain to me just yesterday, that indeed, it is

> everywhere.

> > And the fact that it is bagged, keeps it warm and moist, which

> helps it to

> > multiply. We all deal with bacteria and virus everyday, but can

> fend off

> > low quantities naturally. It's a fact of life. But when we

> encounter mass

> > quantities of something (in this case, excess growth from being

in

> bags in

> > addition to being contaminated), we have a harder time, and thus

> become

> > sick.

> >

> >

> >

> > No more bags for me.

> >

> >

> >

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I was just thinking about this again. What are the chances that all

the stores and/or restaurants that served the contaminated spinach

don't refrigerate their produce? That would be some crazy odds. I'm

still betting on major contamination before the spinach ever got in a

bag. Can we get a poll going here Moderator?

 

Janis

 

 

, " Marilyn Daub " <mcdaub

wrote:

>

> Many of the grocery store produce sections are not refrigerated and

the

> bagged greens are left out over night!!

>

> Marilyn Daub

> mcdaub

> Vanceburg, KY

> My Cats Knead Me!!

> -

> jandor9

>

> Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:20 AM

> Re: Plastic packaging and Caution

with spinach

>

>

> Bagging does not keep produce warm unless it's in a warm

enviroment.

> Those bagged salads are kept cold all thru their travels until

they

> get to the store to keep them fresh. Think of what a salad left

out

> of the fridge for several hours looks like...wilted. They have

cases

> documented in 19 states so far. That is a lot of shipped spinach.

It

> seems kind of remote that it would all be from one truckload that

got

> very warm for a few hours. Not to mention they would have wilted

> spinach. I doubt the spinach from Washinton and New York were from

> the same date code too because of the dates the cases showed up

and

> the distance between them-thinking of transporting the greens.

This

> is why they are working with the possibilities of the spinach

either

> growing in contaminated soil/water and possibly being sprayed with

> contaminated water during processing in order to have that much

> E.coli bacteria embedded in the spinach. By the way, did your

friend

> tell you we have E. coli in our digestive systems? That's why all

> those " Employees Must Wash Hands " signs are up all over.

>

> COOK 'EM ALL!! >:>)

> Janis

>

> , " Thia .... " <bipolyf@>

> wrote:

> >

> > On 9/16/06, jandor9 <jandor9@> wrote:

> > >

> > > <snip>There is NO way to 100% prevent E. coli contamination

> except

> > > grow everything in stadium sized sterile greenhouses. Bird and

> rabbit

> > > poop have E. coli in it. Runoff water has E. coli in it. It's

all

> > > over the place.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Yes.

> >

> > I had a friend explain to me just yesterday, that indeed, it is

> everywhere.

> > And the fact that it is bagged, keeps it warm and moist, which

> helps it to

> > multiply. We all deal with bacteria and virus everyday, but can

> fend off

> > low quantities naturally. It's a fact of life. But when we

> encounter mass

> > quantities of something (in this case, excess growth from being

in

> bags in

> > addition to being contaminated), we have a harder time, and thus

> become

> > sick.

> >

> >

> >

> > No more bags for me.

> >

> >

> >

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-Same here Janis, All the veggie cases are chilled and the little

song " singing in the rain " plays while the fresh veggies are sprayed

with cold water. Of course potatoes, onions, etc. are not in chill

cases and should not be. The packaged veggie mixes,herbs,fresh cut

fruits, and some salad dressings, are also in chilled cases. I think

I would talk to the store managers if they do not keep perishable

leafy veggies in chill cases.

Deanna - In , " jandor9 " <jandor9

wrote:

>

> Glad I don't shop there!! I shop at Pathmark and Shoprite and all

the

> bagged stuff is in open chill cases. All the " loose " greens are in

> open chill cases with cold water sprayers too.

>

> Janis

>

> , " Marilyn Daub " <mcdaub@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Many of the grocery store produce sections are not refrigerated

and

> the

> > bagged greens are left out over night!!

> >

> > Marilyn Daub

> > mcdaub@

> > Vanceburg, KY

> > My Cats Knead Me!!

> > -

> > jandor9

> >

> > Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:20 AM

> > Re: Plastic packaging and Caution

> with spinach

> >

> >

> > Bagging does not keep produce warm unless it's in a warm

> enviroment.

> > Those bagged salads are kept cold all thru their travels until

> they

> > get to the store to keep them fresh. Think of what a salad left

> out

> > of the fridge for several hours looks like...wilted. They have

> cases

> > documented in 19 states so far. That is a lot of shipped

spinach.

> It

> > seems kind of remote that it would all be from one truckload

that

> got

> > very warm for a few hours. Not to mention they would have wilted

> > spinach. I doubt the spinach from Washinton and New York were

from

> > the same date code too because of the dates the cases showed up

> and

> > the distance between them-thinking of transporting the greens.

> This

> > is why they are working with the possibilities of the spinach

> either

> > growing in contaminated soil/water and possibly being sprayed

with

> > contaminated water during processing in order to have that much

> > E.coli bacteria embedded in the spinach. By the way, did your

> friend

> > tell you we have E. coli in our digestive systems? That's why

all

> > those " Employees Must Wash Hands " signs are up all over.

> >

> > COOK 'EM ALL!! >:>)

> > Janis

> >

> > , " Thia .... " <bipolyf@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > On 9/16/06, jandor9 <jandor9@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > <snip>There is NO way to 100% prevent E. coli

contamination

> > except

> > > > grow everything in stadium sized sterile greenhouses. Bird

and

> > rabbit

> > > > poop have E. coli in it. Runoff water has E. coli in it.

It's

> all

> > > > over the place.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Yes.

> > >

> > > I had a friend explain to me just yesterday, that indeed, it

is

> > everywhere.

> > > And the fact that it is bagged, keeps it warm and moist, which

> > helps it to

> > > multiply. We all deal with bacteria and virus everyday, but

can

> > fend off

> > > low quantities naturally. It's a fact of life. But when we

> > encounter mass

> > > quantities of something (in this case, excess growth from

being

> in

> > bags in

> > > addition to being contaminated), we have a harder time, and

thus

> > become

> > > sick.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > No more bags for me.

> > >

> > >

> > >

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I think those sprayers have motion sensors in them! Ha Ha Ha!!!

 

, " genny_y2k " <genny_y2k

wrote:

>

> -Same here Janis, All the veggie cases are chilled and the little

> song " singing in the rain " plays while the fresh veggies are

sprayed

> with cold water. Of course potatoes, onions, etc. are not in chill

> cases and should not be. The packaged veggie mixes,herbs,fresh cut

> fruits, and some salad dressings, are also in chilled cases. I

think

> I would talk to the store managers if they do not keep perishable

> leafy veggies in chill cases.

> Deanna - In , " jandor9 " <jandor9@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Glad I don't shop there!! I shop at Pathmark and Shoprite and all

> the

> > bagged stuff is in open chill cases. All the " loose " greens are

in

> > open chill cases with cold water sprayers too.

> >

> > Janis

> >

> > , " Marilyn Daub " <mcdaub@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Many of the grocery store produce sections are not refrigerated

> and

> > the

> > > bagged greens are left out over night!!

> > >

> > > Marilyn Daub

> > > mcdaub@

> > > Vanceburg, KY

> > > My Cats Knead Me!!

> > > -

> > > jandor9

> > >

> > > Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:20 AM

> > > Re: Plastic packaging and Caution

> > with spinach

> > >

> > >

> > > Bagging does not keep produce warm unless it's in a warm

> > enviroment.

> > > Those bagged salads are kept cold all thru their travels

until

> > they

> > > get to the store to keep them fresh. Think of what a salad

left

> > out

> > > of the fridge for several hours looks like...wilted. They

have

> > cases

> > > documented in 19 states so far. That is a lot of shipped

> spinach.

> > It

> > > seems kind of remote that it would all be from one truckload

> that

> > got

> > > very warm for a few hours. Not to mention they would have

wilted

> > > spinach. I doubt the spinach from Washinton and New York were

> from

> > > the same date code too because of the dates the cases showed

up

> > and

> > > the distance between them-thinking of transporting the

greens.

> > This

> > > is why they are working with the possibilities of the spinach

> > either

> > > growing in contaminated soil/water and possibly being sprayed

> with

> > > contaminated water during processing in order to have that

much

> > > E.coli bacteria embedded in the spinach. By the way, did your

> > friend

> > > tell you we have E. coli in our digestive systems? That's why

> all

> > > those " Employees Must Wash Hands " signs are up all over.

> > >

> > > COOK 'EM ALL!! >:>)

> > > Janis

> > >

> > > , " Thia .... "

<bipolyf@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > On 9/16/06, jandor9 <jandor9@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > <snip>There is NO way to 100% prevent E. coli

> contamination

> > > except

> > > > > grow everything in stadium sized sterile greenhouses.

Bird

> and

> > > rabbit

> > > > > poop have E. coli in it. Runoff water has E. coli in it.

> It's

> > all

> > > > > over the place.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yes.

> > > >

> > > > I had a friend explain to me just yesterday, that indeed,

it

> is

> > > everywhere.

> > > > And the fact that it is bagged, keeps it warm and moist,

which

> > > helps it to

> > > > multiply. We all deal with bacteria and virus everyday,

but

> can

> > > fend off

> > > > low quantities naturally. It's a fact of life. But when we

> > > encounter mass

> > > > quantities of something (in this case, excess growth from

> being

> > in

> > > bags in

> > > > addition to being contaminated), we have a harder time, and

> thus

> > > become

> > > > sick.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > No more bags for me.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

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It also has to do with the strain of e-coli. H0157, I

believe but may have the number wrong, is especially

deadly. Tolerance for that is quite low and children

and elderly people are extremely sensitive.

Debbie

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Debbie,

 

Believe it or not it really isn't very deadly. Think of it, 73 THOUSAND

REPORTED cases a year and fortunately only 61 people die of it? Lot's

of people don't even know they have it and those cases don't get

reported! They think they have a case of the flu. You are right about

the group that is most at risk though, those with the weakest immune

systems.

 

Janis

 

, Reed Deborah <debjreed

wrote:

>

> It also has to do with the strain of e-coli. H0157, I

> believe but may have the number wrong, is especially

> deadly. Tolerance for that is quite low and children

> and elderly people are extremely sensitive.

> Debbie

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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" Working on it " ?? Betch they are gonna work a little harder after

this. Especially since anyone who has a TV, radio, computer or the

newspaper is NOT going to buy thier warm little produce! Glad to hear

you are going elsewhere for food.

 

Janis

 

, " Marilyn Daub " <mcdaub

wrote:

>

> They say they are working on that, but the produce is all out

in " warm "

> cases and no refrigeration yet. This is why I travel 30 to 40

miles to buy

> my produce where they have it refrigerated and watered!!

>

> Marilyn Daub

> mcdaub

> Vanceburg, KY

> My Cats Knead Me!!

> -

> genny_y2k

>

> Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:47 AM

> Re: Plastic packaging and Caution

with spinach

>

>

> -Same here Janis, All the veggie cases are chilled and the little

> song " singing in the rain " plays while the fresh veggies are

sprayed

> with cold water. Of course potatoes, onions, etc. are not in chill

> cases and should not be. The packaged veggie mixes,herbs,fresh cut

> fruits, and some salad dressings, are also in chilled cases. I

think

> I would talk to the store managers if they do not keep perishable

> leafy veggies in chill cases.

> Deanna - In , " jandor9 " <jandor9@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Glad I don't shop there!! I shop at Pathmark and Shoprite and

all

> the

> > bagged stuff is in open chill cases. All the " loose " greens are

in

> > open chill cases with cold water sprayers too.

> >

> > Janis

> >

> > , " Marilyn Daub "

<mcdaub@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Many of the grocery store produce sections are not

refrigerated

> and

> > the

> > > bagged greens are left out over night!!

> > >

> > > Marilyn Daub

> > > mcdaub@

> > > Vanceburg, KY

> > > My Cats Knead Me!!

> > > -

> > > jandor9

> > >

> > > Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:20 AM

> > > Re: Plastic packaging and

Caution

> > with spinach

> > >

> > >

> > > Bagging does not keep produce warm unless it's in a warm

> > enviroment.

> > > Those bagged salads are kept cold all thru their travels

until

> > they

> > > get to the store to keep them fresh. Think of what a salad

left

> > out

> > > of the fridge for several hours looks like...wilted. They

have

> > cases

> > > documented in 19 states so far. That is a lot of shipped

> spinach.

> > It

> > > seems kind of remote that it would all be from one truckload

> that

> > got

> > > very warm for a few hours. Not to mention they would have

wilted

> > > spinach. I doubt the spinach from Washinton and New York

were

> from

> > > the same date code too because of the dates the cases

showed up

> > and

> > > the distance between them-thinking of transporting the

greens.

> > This

> > > is why they are working with the possibilities of the

spinach

> > either

> > > growing in contaminated soil/water and possibly being

sprayed

> with

> > > contaminated water during processing in order to have that

much

> > > E.coli bacteria embedded in the spinach. By the way, did

your

> > friend

> > > tell you we have E. coli in our digestive systems? That's

why

> all

> > > those " Employees Must Wash Hands " signs are up all over.

> > >

> > > COOK 'EM ALL!! >:>)

> > > Janis

> > >

> > > , " Thia .... "

<bipolyf@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > On 9/16/06, jandor9 <jandor9@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > <snip>There is NO way to 100% prevent E. coli

> contamination

> > > except

> > > > > grow everything in stadium sized sterile greenhouses.

Bird

> and

> > > rabbit

> > > > > poop have E. coli in it. Runoff water has E. coli in it.

> It's

> > all

> > > > > over the place.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yes.

> > > >

> > > > I had a friend explain to me just yesterday, that indeed,

it

> is

> > > everywhere.

> > > > And the fact that it is bagged, keeps it warm and moist,

which

> > > helps it to

> > > > multiply. We all deal with bacteria and virus everyday,

but

> can

> > > fend off

> > > > low quantities naturally. It's a fact of life. But when

we

> > > encounter mass

> > > > quantities of something (in this case, excess growth from

> being

> > in

> > > bags in

> > > > addition to being contaminated), we have a harder time,

and

> thus

> > > become

> > > > sick.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > No more bags for me.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

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I think I'll have to talk to the produce manager about

having " Singing in the rain " played at times when the

sprinklers are on. Maybe they could even install a

lamppost. Ooo, showing my age.

Debbie

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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" The produce here in town is wilted a few hours after it is put out. "

 

Exactly. And the bagged stuff probably looks worse if left out since

it's in it's own little terrarium. I hope they find out what the

source is this time. They never did find out what the source was with

the salad E.coli outbreak last year.

 

Janis

 

 

 

, " Marilyn Daub " <mcdaub

wrote:

>

> Well, I am not going to support a local grocery with produce in

that

> condition!!! I have to drive to the places that keep produce

correctly!!

> The produce here in town is wilted a few hours after it is put

out. So are

> the cut fruit. Not me!!

>

> Marilyn Daub

> mcdaub

> Vanceburg, KY

> My Cats Knead Me!!

> -

> jandor9

>

> Sunday, September 17, 2006 12:00 PM

> Re: Plastic packaging and Caution

with spinach

>

>

> " Working on it " ?? Betch they are gonna work a little harder after

> this. Especially since anyone who has a TV, radio, computer or the

> newspaper is NOT going to buy thier warm little produce! Glad to

hear

> you are going elsewhere for food.

>

> Janis

>

> , " Marilyn Daub " <mcdaub@>

> wrote:

> >

> > They say they are working on that, but the produce is all out

> in " warm "

> > cases and no refrigeration yet. This is why I travel 30 to 40

> miles to buy

> > my produce where they have it refrigerated and watered!!

> >

> > Marilyn Daub

> > mcdaub@

> > Vanceburg, KY

> > My Cats Knead Me!!

> > -

> > genny_y2k

> >

> > Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:47 AM

> > Re: Plastic packaging and Caution

> with spinach

> >

> >

> > -Same here Janis, All the veggie cases are chilled and the

little

> > song " singing in the rain " plays while the fresh veggies are

> sprayed

> > with cold water. Of course potatoes, onions, etc. are not in

chill

> > cases and should not be. The packaged veggie

mixes,herbs,fresh cut

> > fruits, and some salad dressings, are also in chilled cases. I

> think

> > I would talk to the store managers if they do not keep

perishable

> > leafy veggies in chill cases.

> > Deanna - In , " jandor9 "

<jandor9@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Glad I don't shop there!! I shop at Pathmark and Shoprite

and

> all

> > the

> > > bagged stuff is in open chill cases. All the " loose " greens

are

> in

> > > open chill cases with cold water sprayers too.

> > >

> > > Janis

> > >

> > > , " Marilyn Daub "

> <mcdaub@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Many of the grocery store produce sections are not

> refrigerated

> > and

> > > the

> > > > bagged greens are left out over night!!

> > > >

> > > > Marilyn Daub

> > > > mcdaub@

> > > > Vanceburg, KY

> > > > My Cats Knead Me!!

> > > > -

> > > > jandor9

> > > >

> > > > Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:20 AM

> > > > Re: Plastic packaging and

> Caution

> > > with spinach

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Bagging does not keep produce warm unless it's in a warm

> > > enviroment.

> > > > Those bagged salads are kept cold all thru their travels

> until

> > > they

> > > > get to the store to keep them fresh. Think of what a

salad

> left

> > > out

> > > > of the fridge for several hours looks like...wilted.

They

> have

> > > cases

> > > > documented in 19 states so far. That is a lot of shipped

> > spinach.

> > > It

> > > > seems kind of remote that it would all be from one

truckload

> > that

> > > got

> > > > very warm for a few hours. Not to mention they would

have

> wilted

> > > > spinach. I doubt the spinach from Washinton and New York

> were

> > from

> > > > the same date code too because of the dates the cases

> showed up

> > > and

> > > > the distance between them-thinking of transporting the

> greens.

> > > This

> > > > is why they are working with the possibilities of the

> spinach

> > > either

> > > > growing in contaminated soil/water and possibly being

> sprayed

> > with

> > > > contaminated water during processing in order to have

that

> much

> > > > E.coli bacteria embedded in the spinach. By the way, did

> your

> > > friend

> > > > tell you we have E. coli in our digestive systems?

That's

> why

> > all

> > > > those " Employees Must Wash Hands " signs are up all over.

> > > >

> > > > COOK 'EM ALL!! >:>)

> > > > Janis

> > > >

> > > > , " Thia .... "

> <bipolyf@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > On 9/16/06, jandor9 <jandor9@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > <snip>There is NO way to 100% prevent E. coli

> > contamination

> > > > except

> > > > > > grow everything in stadium sized sterile

greenhouses.

> Bird

> > and

> > > > rabbit

> > > > > > poop have E. coli in it. Runoff water has E. coli

in it.

> > It's

> > > all

> > > > > > over the place.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes.

> > > > >

> > > > > I had a friend explain to me just yesterday, that

indeed,

> it

> > is

> > > > everywhere.

> > > > > And the fact that it is bagged, keeps it warm and

moist,

> which

> > > > helps it to

> > > > > multiply. We all deal with bacteria and virus

everyday,

> but

> > can

> > > > fend off

> > > > > low quantities naturally. It's a fact of life. But

when

> we

> > > > encounter mass

> > > > > quantities of something (in this case, excess growth

from

> > being

> > > in

> > > > bags in

> > > > > addition to being contaminated), we have a harder

time,

> and

> > thus

> > > > become

> > > > > sick.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > No more bags for me.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

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If it's NOT in a bag and in a fridge, it gets dehydrated and wilts.

In the bag and COLD it stays fresher, longer.

, " wwjd " <jtwigg wrote:

>

> Well you know, if I put fresh bunches of lettuce in my produce

drawers of my refrigerator, without putting it into a plastic bag, it

wilts the same day. I put it in those bags on rolls in the produce

sections.

> Judy

> -

> jandor9

>

>

> " The produce here in town is wilted a few hours after it is put

out. "

>

> Exactly. And the bagged stuff probably looks worse if left out

since

> it's in it's own little terrarium. I hope they find out what the

> source is this time. They never did find out what the source was

with

> the salad E.coli outbreak last year.

>

> Janis

>

> ---

> .

>

>

>

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If you put a *lightly* dampened paper towel in the closed plastic bag

it keeps the moisture balance pretty well. Too much you get

condensation and rot, too little and you get dead edges.

 

, TendrMoon wrote:

>

> In a message dated 9/17/06 12:36:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> jtwigg writes:

>

> > Well you know, if I put fresh bunches of lettuce in my produce

drawers of

> > my refrigerator, without putting it into a plastic bag, it wilts

the same day.

> > I put it in those bags on rolls in the produce sections.

> > Judy

> >

>

> Several years ago I recall someone making bags with tiny holes in

them for

> storing produce...allowed the veggies to breathe and cut down on

accumlated

> moisture. As I remember it, they worked pretty well. I wonder if

they still make

> them. I guess you could probably do it yourself with an ordinary

plastic

> bag.

>

> TM

>

>

>

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