Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 If toxins and PCB's in plastic bags were of any immediate impact, they would hopefully kill the viruses or bacteria. Unfortunately it takes fat cells and a liver for the toxins and PCB's to build up in over a period of time to have any effect. So, nope, plastic bags have no impact on the issue of food bourne illness.It's not chemicals, it's good old fashioned viruses and bacteria. Janis , Cheryl <starborn59 wrote: > > Has the issue of the lettuce being in sealed plastic > ever been addressed? I don't recall seeing anything > but my thought is that the packaging has something to > do with it if the outbreaks are traced to packaged > lettuce or spinach. We all know plastic containers > have all kinds of toxins, pcb's, etc. so would plastic > bags sealed with live veggies in them be any > different? > Just wondered what everyone thought about it. > > Cheryl > > --- jandor9 <jandor9 wrote: > > > The FDA issued these warnings last September about > > bagged salads too. > > Unfortunately, they don't think that washing your > > greens will make > > them safe. The salads and spinach are already washed > > several times > > during processing. The FDA is concerned the plants > > are picking up the > > E.Coli from contaminated ground water, binding the > > bacteria to the > > plants cells. Unless we cook the greens completely, > > there is still a > > risk of E.coli... > > > > Janis > > > > , Mike > > Christie <mike@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Not just spinach but lettuce. From the San Jose > > Mercury News on > > Tuesday: > > > > > > Federal and state officials have launched a > > wide-ranging evaluation > > > of lettuce farming and processing in the Salinas > > Valley, hoping to > > > determine why leafy green vegetables grown over > > the past decade > > have > > > been linked to a potentially deadly strain of E. > > coli. > > > > > > Lettuce and spinach grown in the valley, dubbed > > the " Salad Bowl of > > > the World,'' have been connected to eight of 19 > > outbreaks of > > > Escherichia coli O157:H7, associated with such > > produce since 1995. > > > > > > The whole article is at: > > > > > > http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/living/health/15498285.htm > > > > > > (but I believe (free) membership is required to > > see it) > > > > > > At 06:15 PM 9/14/2006, you wrote: > > > > > > >There have been e-coli outbreaks tracked to > > bagged spinach. Be > > > >cautious. In fact I just got this Fox news break > > by e-mail - > > > > > > > >FDA URGES CONSUMERS TO AVOID BAGGED FRESH SPINACH > > AFTER E. COLI > > > >OUTBREAK LEAVES ONE DEAD, 50 MORE SICK IN EIGHT > > STATES > > > > > > > >Debbie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 I wash my vegetables right away. I rarely use bagged greens, too expensive. I have a whole collection of Tupperware and I use it everyday, I always wash it well and put boiled water over it as a rinse. Portia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 The E coli, Hepatitis A, whatever is already ON the produce or IN the produce BEFORE it ever gets near plastic bags, wrap, whatever. Even if you put them in a sealed glass jar the produce would still be contaminated. It's not the fact that it's in sealed plastic either. If bagged produce is kept properly in a refrigerated enviroment,it actually retards spoilage and bacterial growth. That's why those bags of cut washed greens are, unopened, good for at least a week if kept cold. Throw a couple of lettuce leaves on a shelf of your fridge for a couple of days. I don't think you would eat them. Bacteria and viruses need warmth and moisture to thrive. Like inside our bodies. Janis , Cheryl <starborn59 wrote: > > But bacteria grows inside sealed containers, espec. > plastic > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 My sister and I were just talking about this. This whole thing just proves to me that we get filtered news. Why wouldn't unbagged spinach be suspect too?? This " outbreak " has been going on since late last month. Why are we just hearing about it now when there haven't been any new reported cases of infection since Sept 3rd.?? How do they not know which company(ies)the bagged spinach was from after 3 weeks? Nobody on TV has mentioned that " It causes an estimated 73,000 cases of infection, including 61 deaths, each year in the United States, according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. " Gee, are we keeping something quiet here? I'm not paranoid, I'm disgusted at the lack of information we are given. We were all brought up to be scared of undercooked meat, but nobody mentioned that the 2nd biggest E.coli culprit is Lettuce! This is from the CDC folks. I think the FDA is avoiding a panic that would leave supermarkets and farms full of rotting produce by not saying that ANY raw fruit or veggie not completely cooked can be a carrier of E. Coli. Even raw, unpasturized fruit juice or milk can carry it. Remember the scallions? They weren't bagged. It is possible the spinach bags are all produced in one farming area infected by E.coli. Maybe the bagging machines harbor bacteria? I am surprised that since last years salad E. coli outbreak they don't have it figured out yet. All we can do is wash & peel all fruits and veggies and cook the heck out as much as possible. I am going to live on baked potatoes and bread! Janis , " Thia .... " <bipolyf wrote: > > I read some info here: > http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/salad.asp > > So, to my understanding, it has only been the *bagged* produce that has been > a problem! So how come the unbagged (loose in produce section) is not > having any issues? *This* has me confused! What is it about the bags? > > > > > On 9/15/06, jandor9 <jandor9 wrote: > > > > The E coli, Hepatitis A, whatever is already ON the produce or IN the > > produce BEFORE it ever gets near plastic bags, wrap, whatever. Even if > > you put them in a sealed glass jar the produce would still be > > contaminated. It's not the fact that it's in sealed plastic either. If > > bagged produce is kept properly in a refrigerated enviroment,it > > actually retards spoilage and bacterial growth. That's why those bags > > of cut washed greens are, unopened, good for at least a week if kept > > cold. Throw a couple of lettuce leaves on a shelf of your fridge for a > > couple of days. I don't think you would eat them. Bacteria and viruses > > need warmth and moisture to thrive. Like inside our bodies. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Until they figure out where the contamination is coming from I think I'll be steering clear of the bagged stuff. As I mentioned, there was talk on the TV that the wash water used was itself the culprit. Disgusting!! And as I found on the CDC site the statistic nobody is mentioning is not 91 people but 73,000 cases of E.coli a year. I don't care to be part of that number. COOK 'EM IF YOU GOT 'EM!!! Janis , " alia robinson " <aliar4 wrote: > > I don't know, I'm just not that concerned. I buy bagged salads, eat them, > and will continue to do so. > > Alia > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 EXCUSE ME..This is a VEGETARIAN GROUP!!..NO CHICKENS ALLOWED!!!Ha Ha! Just kidding. :>) Well in this case the produce is coming home to roost. Either they hope, right or wrong(so far), that it is confined to one spinach farming area, or it is in the processing, like washing the produce with E. coli contaminated water. From what I gather they don't wash " loose " produce multiple times in a factory like the bagged produce. A lot of it is cleaned and boxed right out in the field. I asked the same questions...and either they are hiding the fact that all spinach is suspect or it is (hopefully) from a localized source and can be contained. I really think that a lot of government handling of problems use the " acceptable loss " model. Which would be worse, possibly destroy agriculture, a HUGE segment of the economy, by telling people the truth-that there is no way to assure the safety of plant foods for consumption, or live with a small percent of the population getting ill?? There is NO way to 100% prevent E. coli contamination except grow everything in stadium sized sterile greenhouses. Bird and rabbit poop have E. coli in it. Runoff water has E. coli in it. It's all over the place. I hope and pray they find out it's the wash water because that is something they CAN control. They are gambling on us good citizens having a short memory, which we do. We'll be eatting bagged salad and spinach in a couple of months without a care in the world. Janis , TendrMoon wrote: > > In a message dated 9/16/06 7:46:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > jandor9 writes: > > > Until they figure out where the contamination is coming from I think > > I'll be steering clear of the bagged stuff. > > I have yet to understand why it's predominately the bagged produce that seems > to cause the most problems. Isn't all produce washed prior to shipping? And > if something is grown in contaminated soil, makes no difference if it's > bagged or unbagged. I think if we knew the half of it we'd all stop eating. > > Every industry is looking to cut costs but when it comes down to the health > and safety of the consumer this comes across as shoddy business. Someone may > well cut their costs, but in the long run they ultimately lose when they're > fined and/or shut down. You can fool some of the people all of the time and all > of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of > the time. Sooner or later the chickens come home to roost. > > TM > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Bagging does not keep produce warm unless it's in a warm enviroment. Those bagged salads are kept cold all thru their travels until they get to the store to keep them fresh. Think of what a salad left out of the fridge for several hours looks like...wilted. They have cases documented in 19 states so far. That is a lot of shipped spinach. It seems kind of remote that it would all be from one truckload that got very warm for a few hours. Not to mention they would have wilted spinach. I doubt the spinach from Washinton and New York were from the same date code too because of the dates the cases showed up and the distance between them-thinking of transporting the greens. This is why they are working with the possibilities of the spinach either growing in contaminated soil/water and possibly being sprayed with contaminated water during processing in order to have that much E.coli bacteria embedded in the spinach. By the way, did your friend tell you we have E. coli in our digestive systems? That's why all those " Employees Must Wash Hands " signs are up all over. COOK 'EM ALL!! >:>) Janis , " Thia .... " <bipolyf wrote: > > On 9/16/06, jandor9 <jandor9 wrote: > > > > <snip>There is NO way to 100% prevent E. coli contamination except > > grow everything in stadium sized sterile greenhouses. Bird and rabbit > > poop have E. coli in it. Runoff water has E. coli in it. It's all > > over the place. > > > > > Yes. > > I had a friend explain to me just yesterday, that indeed, it is everywhere. > And the fact that it is bagged, keeps it warm and moist, which helps it to > multiply. We all deal with bacteria and virus everyday, but can fend off > low quantities naturally. It's a fact of life. But when we encounter mass > quantities of something (in this case, excess growth from being in bags in > addition to being contaminated), we have a harder time, and thus become > sick. > > > > No more bags for me. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Glad I don't shop there!! I shop at Pathmark and Shoprite and all the bagged stuff is in open chill cases. All the " loose " greens are in open chill cases with cold water sprayers too. Janis , " Marilyn Daub " <mcdaub wrote: > > Many of the grocery store produce sections are not refrigerated and the > bagged greens are left out over night!! > > Marilyn Daub > mcdaub > Vanceburg, KY > My Cats Knead Me!! > - > jandor9 > > Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:20 AM > Re: Plastic packaging and Caution with spinach > > > Bagging does not keep produce warm unless it's in a warm enviroment. > Those bagged salads are kept cold all thru their travels until they > get to the store to keep them fresh. Think of what a salad left out > of the fridge for several hours looks like...wilted. They have cases > documented in 19 states so far. That is a lot of shipped spinach. It > seems kind of remote that it would all be from one truckload that got > very warm for a few hours. Not to mention they would have wilted > spinach. I doubt the spinach from Washinton and New York were from > the same date code too because of the dates the cases showed up and > the distance between them-thinking of transporting the greens. This > is why they are working with the possibilities of the spinach either > growing in contaminated soil/water and possibly being sprayed with > contaminated water during processing in order to have that much > E.coli bacteria embedded in the spinach. By the way, did your friend > tell you we have E. coli in our digestive systems? That's why all > those " Employees Must Wash Hands " signs are up all over. > > COOK 'EM ALL!! >:>) > Janis > > , " Thia .... " <bipolyf@> > wrote: > > > > On 9/16/06, jandor9 <jandor9@> wrote: > > > > > > <snip>There is NO way to 100% prevent E. coli contamination > except > > > grow everything in stadium sized sterile greenhouses. Bird and > rabbit > > > poop have E. coli in it. Runoff water has E. coli in it. It's all > > > over the place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > I had a friend explain to me just yesterday, that indeed, it is > everywhere. > > And the fact that it is bagged, keeps it warm and moist, which > helps it to > > multiply. We all deal with bacteria and virus everyday, but can > fend off > > low quantities naturally. It's a fact of life. But when we > encounter mass > > quantities of something (in this case, excess growth from being in > bags in > > addition to being contaminated), we have a harder time, and thus > become > > sick. > > > > > > > > No more bags for me. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 I was just thinking about this again. What are the chances that all the stores and/or restaurants that served the contaminated spinach don't refrigerate their produce? That would be some crazy odds. I'm still betting on major contamination before the spinach ever got in a bag. Can we get a poll going here Moderator? Janis , " Marilyn Daub " <mcdaub wrote: > > Many of the grocery store produce sections are not refrigerated and the > bagged greens are left out over night!! > > Marilyn Daub > mcdaub > Vanceburg, KY > My Cats Knead Me!! > - > jandor9 > > Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:20 AM > Re: Plastic packaging and Caution with spinach > > > Bagging does not keep produce warm unless it's in a warm enviroment. > Those bagged salads are kept cold all thru their travels until they > get to the store to keep them fresh. Think of what a salad left out > of the fridge for several hours looks like...wilted. They have cases > documented in 19 states so far. That is a lot of shipped spinach. It > seems kind of remote that it would all be from one truckload that got > very warm for a few hours. Not to mention they would have wilted > spinach. I doubt the spinach from Washinton and New York were from > the same date code too because of the dates the cases showed up and > the distance between them-thinking of transporting the greens. This > is why they are working with the possibilities of the spinach either > growing in contaminated soil/water and possibly being sprayed with > contaminated water during processing in order to have that much > E.coli bacteria embedded in the spinach. By the way, did your friend > tell you we have E. coli in our digestive systems? That's why all > those " Employees Must Wash Hands " signs are up all over. > > COOK 'EM ALL!! >:>) > Janis > > , " Thia .... " <bipolyf@> > wrote: > > > > On 9/16/06, jandor9 <jandor9@> wrote: > > > > > > <snip>There is NO way to 100% prevent E. coli contamination > except > > > grow everything in stadium sized sterile greenhouses. Bird and > rabbit > > > poop have E. coli in it. Runoff water has E. coli in it. It's all > > > over the place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > I had a friend explain to me just yesterday, that indeed, it is > everywhere. > > And the fact that it is bagged, keeps it warm and moist, which > helps it to > > multiply. We all deal with bacteria and virus everyday, but can > fend off > > low quantities naturally. It's a fact of life. But when we > encounter mass > > quantities of something (in this case, excess growth from being in > bags in > > addition to being contaminated), we have a harder time, and thus > become > > sick. > > > > > > > > No more bags for me. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 -Same here Janis, All the veggie cases are chilled and the little song " singing in the rain " plays while the fresh veggies are sprayed with cold water. Of course potatoes, onions, etc. are not in chill cases and should not be. The packaged veggie mixes,herbs,fresh cut fruits, and some salad dressings, are also in chilled cases. I think I would talk to the store managers if they do not keep perishable leafy veggies in chill cases. Deanna - In , " jandor9 " <jandor9 wrote: > > Glad I don't shop there!! I shop at Pathmark and Shoprite and all the > bagged stuff is in open chill cases. All the " loose " greens are in > open chill cases with cold water sprayers too. > > Janis > > , " Marilyn Daub " <mcdaub@> > wrote: > > > > Many of the grocery store produce sections are not refrigerated and > the > > bagged greens are left out over night!! > > > > Marilyn Daub > > mcdaub@ > > Vanceburg, KY > > My Cats Knead Me!! > > - > > jandor9 > > > > Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:20 AM > > Re: Plastic packaging and Caution > with spinach > > > > > > Bagging does not keep produce warm unless it's in a warm > enviroment. > > Those bagged salads are kept cold all thru their travels until > they > > get to the store to keep them fresh. Think of what a salad left > out > > of the fridge for several hours looks like...wilted. They have > cases > > documented in 19 states so far. That is a lot of shipped spinach. > It > > seems kind of remote that it would all be from one truckload that > got > > very warm for a few hours. Not to mention they would have wilted > > spinach. I doubt the spinach from Washinton and New York were from > > the same date code too because of the dates the cases showed up > and > > the distance between them-thinking of transporting the greens. > This > > is why they are working with the possibilities of the spinach > either > > growing in contaminated soil/water and possibly being sprayed with > > contaminated water during processing in order to have that much > > E.coli bacteria embedded in the spinach. By the way, did your > friend > > tell you we have E. coli in our digestive systems? That's why all > > those " Employees Must Wash Hands " signs are up all over. > > > > COOK 'EM ALL!! >:>) > > Janis > > > > , " Thia .... " <bipolyf@> > > wrote: > > > > > > On 9/16/06, jandor9 <jandor9@> wrote: > > > > > > > > <snip>There is NO way to 100% prevent E. coli contamination > > except > > > > grow everything in stadium sized sterile greenhouses. Bird and > > rabbit > > > > poop have E. coli in it. Runoff water has E. coli in it. It's > all > > > > over the place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > I had a friend explain to me just yesterday, that indeed, it is > > everywhere. > > > And the fact that it is bagged, keeps it warm and moist, which > > helps it to > > > multiply. We all deal with bacteria and virus everyday, but can > > fend off > > > low quantities naturally. It's a fact of life. But when we > > encounter mass > > > quantities of something (in this case, excess growth from being > in > > bags in > > > addition to being contaminated), we have a harder time, and thus > > become > > > sick. > > > > > > > > > > > > No more bags for me. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 I think those sprayers have motion sensors in them! Ha Ha Ha!!! , " genny_y2k " <genny_y2k wrote: > > -Same here Janis, All the veggie cases are chilled and the little > song " singing in the rain " plays while the fresh veggies are sprayed > with cold water. Of course potatoes, onions, etc. are not in chill > cases and should not be. The packaged veggie mixes,herbs,fresh cut > fruits, and some salad dressings, are also in chilled cases. I think > I would talk to the store managers if they do not keep perishable > leafy veggies in chill cases. > Deanna - In , " jandor9 " <jandor9@> > wrote: > > > > Glad I don't shop there!! I shop at Pathmark and Shoprite and all > the > > bagged stuff is in open chill cases. All the " loose " greens are in > > open chill cases with cold water sprayers too. > > > > Janis > > > > , " Marilyn Daub " <mcdaub@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Many of the grocery store produce sections are not refrigerated > and > > the > > > bagged greens are left out over night!! > > > > > > Marilyn Daub > > > mcdaub@ > > > Vanceburg, KY > > > My Cats Knead Me!! > > > - > > > jandor9 > > > > > > Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:20 AM > > > Re: Plastic packaging and Caution > > with spinach > > > > > > > > > Bagging does not keep produce warm unless it's in a warm > > enviroment. > > > Those bagged salads are kept cold all thru their travels until > > they > > > get to the store to keep them fresh. Think of what a salad left > > out > > > of the fridge for several hours looks like...wilted. They have > > cases > > > documented in 19 states so far. That is a lot of shipped > spinach. > > It > > > seems kind of remote that it would all be from one truckload > that > > got > > > very warm for a few hours. Not to mention they would have wilted > > > spinach. I doubt the spinach from Washinton and New York were > from > > > the same date code too because of the dates the cases showed up > > and > > > the distance between them-thinking of transporting the greens. > > This > > > is why they are working with the possibilities of the spinach > > either > > > growing in contaminated soil/water and possibly being sprayed > with > > > contaminated water during processing in order to have that much > > > E.coli bacteria embedded in the spinach. By the way, did your > > friend > > > tell you we have E. coli in our digestive systems? That's why > all > > > those " Employees Must Wash Hands " signs are up all over. > > > > > > COOK 'EM ALL!! >:>) > > > Janis > > > > > > , " Thia .... " <bipolyf@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On 9/16/06, jandor9 <jandor9@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > <snip>There is NO way to 100% prevent E. coli > contamination > > > except > > > > > grow everything in stadium sized sterile greenhouses. Bird > and > > > rabbit > > > > > poop have E. coli in it. Runoff water has E. coli in it. > It's > > all > > > > > over the place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > I had a friend explain to me just yesterday, that indeed, it > is > > > everywhere. > > > > And the fact that it is bagged, keeps it warm and moist, which > > > helps it to > > > > multiply. We all deal with bacteria and virus everyday, but > can > > > fend off > > > > low quantities naturally. It's a fact of life. But when we > > > encounter mass > > > > quantities of something (in this case, excess growth from > being > > in > > > bags in > > > > addition to being contaminated), we have a harder time, and > thus > > > become > > > > sick. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No more bags for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 It also has to do with the strain of e-coli. H0157, I believe but may have the number wrong, is especially deadly. Tolerance for that is quite low and children and elderly people are extremely sensitive. Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Debbie, Believe it or not it really isn't very deadly. Think of it, 73 THOUSAND REPORTED cases a year and fortunately only 61 people die of it? Lot's of people don't even know they have it and those cases don't get reported! They think they have a case of the flu. You are right about the group that is most at risk though, those with the weakest immune systems. Janis , Reed Deborah <debjreed wrote: > > It also has to do with the strain of e-coli. H0157, I > believe but may have the number wrong, is especially > deadly. Tolerance for that is quite low and children > and elderly people are extremely sensitive. > Debbie > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 " Working on it " ?? Betch they are gonna work a little harder after this. Especially since anyone who has a TV, radio, computer or the newspaper is NOT going to buy thier warm little produce! Glad to hear you are going elsewhere for food. Janis , " Marilyn Daub " <mcdaub wrote: > > They say they are working on that, but the produce is all out in " warm " > cases and no refrigeration yet. This is why I travel 30 to 40 miles to buy > my produce where they have it refrigerated and watered!! > > Marilyn Daub > mcdaub > Vanceburg, KY > My Cats Knead Me!! > - > genny_y2k > > Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:47 AM > Re: Plastic packaging and Caution with spinach > > > -Same here Janis, All the veggie cases are chilled and the little > song " singing in the rain " plays while the fresh veggies are sprayed > with cold water. Of course potatoes, onions, etc. are not in chill > cases and should not be. The packaged veggie mixes,herbs,fresh cut > fruits, and some salad dressings, are also in chilled cases. I think > I would talk to the store managers if they do not keep perishable > leafy veggies in chill cases. > Deanna - In , " jandor9 " <jandor9@> > wrote: > > > > Glad I don't shop there!! I shop at Pathmark and Shoprite and all > the > > bagged stuff is in open chill cases. All the " loose " greens are in > > open chill cases with cold water sprayers too. > > > > Janis > > > > , " Marilyn Daub " <mcdaub@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Many of the grocery store produce sections are not refrigerated > and > > the > > > bagged greens are left out over night!! > > > > > > Marilyn Daub > > > mcdaub@ > > > Vanceburg, KY > > > My Cats Knead Me!! > > > - > > > jandor9 > > > > > > Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:20 AM > > > Re: Plastic packaging and Caution > > with spinach > > > > > > > > > Bagging does not keep produce warm unless it's in a warm > > enviroment. > > > Those bagged salads are kept cold all thru their travels until > > they > > > get to the store to keep them fresh. Think of what a salad left > > out > > > of the fridge for several hours looks like...wilted. They have > > cases > > > documented in 19 states so far. That is a lot of shipped > spinach. > > It > > > seems kind of remote that it would all be from one truckload > that > > got > > > very warm for a few hours. Not to mention they would have wilted > > > spinach. I doubt the spinach from Washinton and New York were > from > > > the same date code too because of the dates the cases showed up > > and > > > the distance between them-thinking of transporting the greens. > > This > > > is why they are working with the possibilities of the spinach > > either > > > growing in contaminated soil/water and possibly being sprayed > with > > > contaminated water during processing in order to have that much > > > E.coli bacteria embedded in the spinach. By the way, did your > > friend > > > tell you we have E. coli in our digestive systems? That's why > all > > > those " Employees Must Wash Hands " signs are up all over. > > > > > > COOK 'EM ALL!! >:>) > > > Janis > > > > > > , " Thia .... " <bipolyf@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On 9/16/06, jandor9 <jandor9@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > <snip>There is NO way to 100% prevent E. coli > contamination > > > except > > > > > grow everything in stadium sized sterile greenhouses. Bird > and > > > rabbit > > > > > poop have E. coli in it. Runoff water has E. coli in it. > It's > > all > > > > > over the place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > I had a friend explain to me just yesterday, that indeed, it > is > > > everywhere. > > > > And the fact that it is bagged, keeps it warm and moist, which > > > helps it to > > > > multiply. We all deal with bacteria and virus everyday, but > can > > > fend off > > > > low quantities naturally. It's a fact of life. But when we > > > encounter mass > > > > quantities of something (in this case, excess growth from > being > > in > > > bags in > > > > addition to being contaminated), we have a harder time, and > thus > > > become > > > > sick. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No more bags for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 I think I'll have to talk to the produce manager about having " Singing in the rain " played at times when the sprinklers are on. Maybe they could even install a lamppost. Ooo, showing my age. Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 " The produce here in town is wilted a few hours after it is put out. " Exactly. And the bagged stuff probably looks worse if left out since it's in it's own little terrarium. I hope they find out what the source is this time. They never did find out what the source was with the salad E.coli outbreak last year. Janis , " Marilyn Daub " <mcdaub wrote: > > Well, I am not going to support a local grocery with produce in that > condition!!! I have to drive to the places that keep produce correctly!! > The produce here in town is wilted a few hours after it is put out. So are > the cut fruit. Not me!! > > Marilyn Daub > mcdaub > Vanceburg, KY > My Cats Knead Me!! > - > jandor9 > > Sunday, September 17, 2006 12:00 PM > Re: Plastic packaging and Caution with spinach > > > " Working on it " ?? Betch they are gonna work a little harder after > this. Especially since anyone who has a TV, radio, computer or the > newspaper is NOT going to buy thier warm little produce! Glad to hear > you are going elsewhere for food. > > Janis > > , " Marilyn Daub " <mcdaub@> > wrote: > > > > They say they are working on that, but the produce is all out > in " warm " > > cases and no refrigeration yet. This is why I travel 30 to 40 > miles to buy > > my produce where they have it refrigerated and watered!! > > > > Marilyn Daub > > mcdaub@ > > Vanceburg, KY > > My Cats Knead Me!! > > - > > genny_y2k > > > > Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:47 AM > > Re: Plastic packaging and Caution > with spinach > > > > > > -Same here Janis, All the veggie cases are chilled and the little > > song " singing in the rain " plays while the fresh veggies are > sprayed > > with cold water. Of course potatoes, onions, etc. are not in chill > > cases and should not be. The packaged veggie mixes,herbs,fresh cut > > fruits, and some salad dressings, are also in chilled cases. I > think > > I would talk to the store managers if they do not keep perishable > > leafy veggies in chill cases. > > Deanna - In , " jandor9 " <jandor9@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Glad I don't shop there!! I shop at Pathmark and Shoprite and > all > > the > > > bagged stuff is in open chill cases. All the " loose " greens are > in > > > open chill cases with cold water sprayers too. > > > > > > Janis > > > > > > , " Marilyn Daub " > <mcdaub@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Many of the grocery store produce sections are not > refrigerated > > and > > > the > > > > bagged greens are left out over night!! > > > > > > > > Marilyn Daub > > > > mcdaub@ > > > > Vanceburg, KY > > > > My Cats Knead Me!! > > > > - > > > > jandor9 > > > > > > > > Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:20 AM > > > > Re: Plastic packaging and > Caution > > > with spinach > > > > > > > > > > > > Bagging does not keep produce warm unless it's in a warm > > > enviroment. > > > > Those bagged salads are kept cold all thru their travels > until > > > they > > > > get to the store to keep them fresh. Think of what a salad > left > > > out > > > > of the fridge for several hours looks like...wilted. They > have > > > cases > > > > documented in 19 states so far. That is a lot of shipped > > spinach. > > > It > > > > seems kind of remote that it would all be from one truckload > > that > > > got > > > > very warm for a few hours. Not to mention they would have > wilted > > > > spinach. I doubt the spinach from Washinton and New York > were > > from > > > > the same date code too because of the dates the cases > showed up > > > and > > > > the distance between them-thinking of transporting the > greens. > > > This > > > > is why they are working with the possibilities of the > spinach > > > either > > > > growing in contaminated soil/water and possibly being > sprayed > > with > > > > contaminated water during processing in order to have that > much > > > > E.coli bacteria embedded in the spinach. By the way, did > your > > > friend > > > > tell you we have E. coli in our digestive systems? That's > why > > all > > > > those " Employees Must Wash Hands " signs are up all over. > > > > > > > > COOK 'EM ALL!! >:>) > > > > Janis > > > > > > > > , " Thia .... " > <bipolyf@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On 9/16/06, jandor9 <jandor9@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > <snip>There is NO way to 100% prevent E. coli > > contamination > > > > except > > > > > > grow everything in stadium sized sterile greenhouses. > Bird > > and > > > > rabbit > > > > > > poop have E. coli in it. Runoff water has E. coli in it. > > It's > > > all > > > > > > over the place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > I had a friend explain to me just yesterday, that indeed, > it > > is > > > > everywhere. > > > > > And the fact that it is bagged, keeps it warm and moist, > which > > > > helps it to > > > > > multiply. We all deal with bacteria and virus everyday, > but > > can > > > > fend off > > > > > low quantities naturally. It's a fact of life. But when > we > > > > encounter mass > > > > > quantities of something (in this case, excess growth from > > being > > > in > > > > bags in > > > > > addition to being contaminated), we have a harder time, > and > > thus > > > > become > > > > > sick. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No more bags for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 If it's NOT in a bag and in a fridge, it gets dehydrated and wilts. In the bag and COLD it stays fresher, longer. , " wwjd " <jtwigg wrote: > > Well you know, if I put fresh bunches of lettuce in my produce drawers of my refrigerator, without putting it into a plastic bag, it wilts the same day. I put it in those bags on rolls in the produce sections. > Judy > - > jandor9 > > > " The produce here in town is wilted a few hours after it is put out. " > > Exactly. And the bagged stuff probably looks worse if left out since > it's in it's own little terrarium. I hope they find out what the > source is this time. They never did find out what the source was with > the salad E.coli outbreak last year. > > Janis > > --- > . > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 If you put a *lightly* dampened paper towel in the closed plastic bag it keeps the moisture balance pretty well. Too much you get condensation and rot, too little and you get dead edges. , TendrMoon wrote: > > In a message dated 9/17/06 12:36:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > jtwigg writes: > > > Well you know, if I put fresh bunches of lettuce in my produce drawers of > > my refrigerator, without putting it into a plastic bag, it wilts the same day. > > I put it in those bags on rolls in the produce sections. > > Judy > > > > Several years ago I recall someone making bags with tiny holes in them for > storing produce...allowed the veggies to breathe and cut down on accumlated > moisture. As I remember it, they worked pretty well. I wonder if they still make > them. I guess you could probably do it yourself with an ordinary plastic > bag. > > TM > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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