Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 - " bernie " <berniew " Herojig " <herojig Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:12 PM Re: (ID) Care for stray dogs and cats > We have to go slowly due to resources. I think you are being a bit > ambitious with the numbers. We just do a few hundred dogs a year. we are a > rescue so places will be taken up with sick and old dogs also. as I said > we are 'no kill' so they will live their lives with us if they cannot get > homes. I am in the process of making SDON an Irish charity. > Attitudes need changing to help these animals. We spay only when we agree > with local people that they will feed and watch the street dog for us. > namaste. > bernie > - > " Herojig " <herojig > " bernie " <berniew; <aapn > > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:28 PM > Re: (ID) Care for stray dogs and cats > > > Bernie, that's very cool. That means there are plans for an ABC center on > the West and South of KTM, and an established centre in the North. Just > one > more on the East side (Boudhanath) and that would cover the city! If each > center could spay/neuter 5000+ animals that means the stray population > might > get under control within 5 years or so, and it will be pleasant to go for > a > walk around this town. Please send any of your reps to our next meeting, > or > forward them the link to our presentation on ABC program in Nepal: > http://www.animalnepal.org/news.htm > Cheers, and best of luck! > Jigs > animalNEPAL > Paul Reitman > CEO Phoenix Studios Nepal > www.phoenixstudios.com.np > > > > > Ps. On Kurkhur Puja Day we hold a vaccination camp in front of the Zoo. > Perhaps your group could hold one at the Temple next time? We can get the > vaccines for free, and your vets could administer. What could be better? > >> bernie <berniew >> Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:58:10 -0000 >> Herojig <herojig, <aapn > >> Re: (ID) Care for stray dogs and cats >> >> We work with the stupa dogs in the Monkey temple. (Swayambunath).we >> started >> in March 06 and Ive been funding the work since. We have 3 employed. a >> Para >> Vet, A trainee Vet and someone who feeds the dogs daily in the Stupa >> area.We get volunteers sometimes too. >> I run Dog rescue Ireland here and am with the animal Rights groups here >> also.Lets keep in touch . >> Naicap is near Krittipur. 20 mins from Thamel. >> Namaste. >> Bernie >> >> >> - >> " Herojig " <herojig >> " bernie " <berniew; <aapn > >> Wednesday, January 02, 2008 1:14 PM >> Re: (ID) Care for stray dogs and cats >> >> >> Dear Bernie, no, I am referring to the animalNEPAL project (see links in >> last post). Perhaps some collaboration is in order, no? We have the >> plans, >> the vets, and the land all waiting for construction funds and the project >> will be just about done. The new centre is modeled after KAT Centre (Jan >> Salter's group) on the other side of town. We are conducting a series of >> public meetings (the first held on Dec. 23rd) with the community and >> civic >> leaders in the district of Lalitpur. The next one is Jan. 20th at the >> Summit >> Hotel at 4PM, where we will deliver a presentation and hold a Q & A. Please >> pass this info on to anyone you know working in this regard. Perhaps we >> can >> jointly get this work done! Ps.Where is Naicap? >> Jigs >> www.animalnepal.org >> >> >> >> >> >>> bernie <berniew >>> Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:28:37 -0000 >>> Herojig <herojig, <aapn > >>> Re: (ID) Care for stray dogs and cats >>> >>> I am founder of the SDON, Street dogs of nepal small rescue in Naicap. >>> Possibly you are refering to us . I live in Ireland but have just been >>> in >>> Nepal again to see how things are progressing. We need money for a >>> permanent >>> site and we are spaying, neutering and attending injured dogs but space >>> is >>> limited and it is only the beginning. >>> We aim to keep the worst and old dogs and will continue as a rescue with >>> a >>> 'no >>> kill' policy, meaning only suffering or dogs terminally ill being killed >>> to >>> alleviate their suffering. Its a really bad situation there in >>> Kathmandu, >>> if >>> anyone wants to help us see the website and email myself or Rai Dhan our >>> Para >>> Vet.Im doing my best to raise money here in Ireland for a permanent >>> Centre >>> but >>> for now we are helping a small amount of dogs but every one is >>> special... >>> to >>> us every one counts. >>> >>> Bernie Wright.SDON. >>> www.streetdogsofnepal.com >>> >>> >>> - >>> Herojig >>> Christine Sendjaja ; aapn >>> Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:14 AM >>> Re: (ID) Care for stray dogs and cats >>> >>> >>> Christine: >>> >>> Your letter is touching, and very close to home in the sense that you >>> describe a situation so common here in Kathmandu Nepal. In Kathmandu, >>> a >>> single shelter in a city of 1.5+ million is full to capacity and >>> wholly >>> under-funded. There is one ABC (Animal Birth Control) centre on one >>> side >>> of >>> town targeting 5000 of the estimated 50,000 dogs in the area. Another >>> ABC >>> center is in the planning stages for another side of Kathmandu >>> (http://www.animalnepal.org/currentprojects.htm) that will target >>> about >>> the >>> same number once built and operational. In the meantime, the approach >>> that >>> you have personally taken is a noble one, and one that we also support >>> in >>> this city (an individual¹s temporary >>> adoption/spaying/vaccination/placement >>> of a stray with the help of a local vet). Our small org has a program >>> that >>> helps an individual: >>> >>> 1. Take an animal off the street into their own home. >>> 2. Bring the rescued animal to a vet and get proper >>> vaccinations/spaying/deworming/etc. >>> 3. Find a permanent home for the animal, or if that¹s not possible, >>> return >>> the animal to the street. >>> >>> For more info on how that¹s done see Patan Rescue on this page: >>> http://www.animalnepal.org/activities.htm. Note: this effort is done >>> in >>> conjunction with a sympathetic Vet, one willing to provide low-cost >>> healthcare to street animals, and funded by private donations raised >>> by >>> volunteers. >>> >>> Another idea that might help with the residents of your building is to >>> hang >>> a sign that indicates animal abuse is not allowed, just as one would >>> hang a >>> no-smoking sign. For a sample poster to hang, see this example: >>> http://www.animalnepal.org/old/images/campaigns/antikick_poster.jpg >>> The advantages of this approach is that it may avoid confrontation and >>> may >>> raise awareness amongst your neighbors. At a minimum, it will make >>> them >>> think about the issue. >>> >>> Well, we hope these few examples may help your efforts in Jakarta. >>> AnimalNEPAL was started by just one person caring enough to do >>> something >>> about the situation, so we encourage you to start organizing in your >>> own >>> community...you are sure to find others who feel the same way as you >>> and >>> that are willing to help! >>> Jigs >>> www.animalnepal.org >>> >>>> Christine Sendjaja <csendjaja >>>> Tue, 1 Jan 2008 09:33:25 +0700 >>>> <aapn > >>>> (ID) Care for stray dogs and cats >>>> >>>> Dear colleagues, >>>> I live in Jakarta where the animal shelter is too full to accept more >>>> strayed animals. So I spayed , vaccinate n care the cats n dogs in my >>>> community, I kept the house clean n pay additional money for outside >>>> cleaning(besides the regular tax, cleaning n community service >>>> charges.) But the barbaric residents still look for every ways >>>> hurting em, In fact most of the time the animals not getting out of >>>> my house. We need voice support from friends, >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 > > We have to go slowly due to resources. I think you are being a bit > > ambitious with the numbers. We just do a few hundred dogs a year This may be setting standards too low, depending on how many hours per week you hire your surgeon. A good sterilization surgeon can sterilize 20 dogs a day in a mobile unit, 40 a day in a fixed-site clinic with the assistance of two vet techs, & sustain the pace through a four-day surgical work week. Working at that pace builds in all sorts of efficiencies of scale--and gets the job done. But it also requires learning to maintain strict asepsis, so as to avoid complications of surgery, and to operate making only keyhole incisions (which are much less likely to become infected.) If you have 50,000 dogs in the Kathmandu Valley, you need to sterilize at least 35,000 (70%) to stabilize the population. Each sterilization above that target will begin to reduce the population. However, until you get to 70% sterilized, the population will continue to grow, and you will have to perform more surgeries over time than just the 35,000 you would have to perform to reach the goal if you could do all the necessary surgeries in just one year. Good vets tend to like to learn how to work at high speed without complications, in part because they realize they can make a hell of a lot more money that way. For example, a shelter vet in the U.S. who can only do 20 surgeries per day will make about $60,000 a year, but a shelter vet who does 40 will command $100,000-plus, in his or her choice of communities -- and will be a bargain for whoever pays the wage, because so much more work will be done for the price. The money to pay a good sterilization surgeon, anywhere, comes from demonstrating success. Relatively few donors will invest in a program that sterilizes only a few hundred dogs per year, because that program will not make a visible difference unless all of the surgeries are concentrated in a particular neighborhood, to show on a limited scale what can be accomplished by reaching the 70% target within a specified area. If you show that you can make a big difference, though, bigger donors & more donors will jump on the bandwagon, and you may be able to attract municipal funding. A few hundred dogs a year is fine if all you want to do is help one neighborhood or prevent breeding in your own care-for-life shelter, or practice & demonstrate technique, but it doesn't make a damned bit of difference to the greater picture. To do that, you need to mobilize and work to high standards, on a large scale -- as, for example, Rahul Sehgal of Animal Help has done, in Ahmedabad & elsewhere, using techniques learned from Bali Street Dog Foundation founder Sherry Grant. The success of the Visakha SPCA steriization program in Visakhapatnam, India, would also be an example worth emulating. Pradeep Kumar Nath started out there 10 years ago with nothing but a dream -- no money, no donors, no land, not a thing. Within two years the municipality quit electrocuting dogs, within six years he got to 80% of the dogs within the central city sterilized, & in recent years has moved outward into the surrounding suburbs. As hard as people like Sehgal, Grant, and Nath work, I don't really see them working a whole lot harder than many of the people who get only much smaller amounts accomplished, some of whom are already working themselves to exhaustion and collapse. What I do see is that they work with higher goals, & manage to infect many more people with their ambition & enthusiasm. -- Merritt Clifton Editor, ANIMAL PEOPLE P.O. Box 960 Clinton, WA 98236 Telephone: 360-579-2505 Fax: 360-579-2575 E-mail: anmlpepl Web: www.animalpeoplenews.org [ANIMAL PEOPLE is the leading independent newspaper providing original investigative coverage of animal protection worldwide, founded in 1992. Our readership of 30,000-plus includes the decision-makers at more than 10,000 animal protection organizations. We have no alignment or affiliation with any other entity. $24/year; for free sample, send address.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Hi Merritt! So finally we agree on something, re: ur numbers! (It had to happen sooner or later.) Your post is " well said. " The KAT Centre here is very successful and operates pretty much as you say, but they can only do 1/4 of the job needed in the valley, using your numbers. The animalNEPAL ABC centre will bring that up to 1/2 the job...which if left at that may take longer then my lifetime to see the job complete. It looks like 4 fully operational and funded centres are needed to make a significant improvement (one at each compass point in town, and ideally one extra one in the center). But the good news is that as we are piggy-backing off KAT's success with enthusiastic volunteers and professional Vet support, so we may be able to find enough donors to fund the building of another Centre based on the KAT model. Then perhaps with 2 open, they will multiply like rabbits (sic). But here is something from your paper that we have found to be SO SO true, and all of us in a situation as found in KTM and other places in Asia can learn from: ³No humane society anywhere should even think about starting a shelter until and unless the numbers of homeless dogs and cats are markedly reduced, and until the public shows increased sympathy and tolerance toward them. Public education can begin with as little as one volunteer sharing knowledge by word-of-mouth. If sterilization and vaccination is properly promoted, and humane education is successful, a community will never need conventional animal control shelters.² --From Animal People Magazine (US) November, 2003 We have learned this from DIRECT experience, so we know it's true. And to extrapolate that out a bit, rescuing and sheltering strays without a shelter may be a futile and frustrating experience as well (albeit a noble cause), until the humane education component is in place. That's where animalNEPAL as an org has a strength. We have big mouths and for 2008 we plan on using that talent. Cheers Merritt, and thanks for the great info! Jigs www.animalnepal.org > Merritt Clifton <anmlpepl > Wed, 2 Jan 2008 19:30:46 -0800 > <aapn > > Re: (NP) Fw: (ID) Care for stray dogs and cats > >>> We have to go slowly due to resources. I think you are being a bit >>> ambitious with the numbers. We just do a few hundred dogs a year > > > This may be setting standards too low, depending on how many > hours per week you hire your surgeon. > > A good sterilization surgeon can sterilize 20 dogs a day in a > mobile unit, 40 a day in a fixed-site clinic with the assistance of > two vet techs, & sustain the pace through a four-day surgical work > week. > > Working at that pace builds in all sorts of efficiencies of > scale--and gets the job done. > > But it also requires learning to maintain strict asepsis, so > as to avoid complications of surgery, and to operate making only > keyhole incisions (which are much less likely to become infected.) > > If you have 50,000 dogs in the Kathmandu Valley, you need to > sterilize at least 35,000 (70%) to stabilize the population. Each > sterilization above that target will begin to reduce the population. > > However, until you get to 70% sterilized, the population > will continue to grow, and you will have to perform more surgeries > over time than just the 35,000 you would have to perform to reach the > goal if you could do all the necessary surgeries in just one year. > > Good vets tend to like to learn how to work at high speed > without complications, in part because they realize they can make a > hell of a lot more money that way. For example, a shelter vet in > the U.S. who can only do 20 surgeries per day will make about $60,000 > a year, but a shelter vet who does 40 will command $100,000-plus, > in his or her choice of communities -- and will be a bargain for > whoever pays the wage, because so much more work will be done for > the price. > > The money to pay a good sterilization surgeon, anywhere, > comes from demonstrating success. > > Relatively few donors will invest in a program that > sterilizes only a few hundred dogs per year, because that program > will not make a visible difference unless all of the surgeries are > concentrated in a particular neighborhood, to show on a limited > scale what can be accomplished by reaching the 70% target within a > specified area. > > If you show that you can make a big difference, though, > bigger donors & more donors will jump on the bandwagon, and you may > be able to attract municipal funding. > > A few hundred dogs a year is fine if all you want to do is > help one neighborhood or prevent breeding in your own care-for-life > shelter, or practice & demonstrate technique, but it doesn't make a > damned bit of difference to the greater picture. To do that, you > need to mobilize and work to high standards, on a large scale -- as, > for example, Rahul Sehgal of Animal Help has done, in Ahmedabad & > elsewhere, using techniques learned from Bali Street Dog Foundation > founder Sherry Grant. > > The success of the Visakha SPCA steriization program in > Visakhapatnam, India, would also be an example worth emulating. > Pradeep Kumar Nath started out there 10 years ago with nothing but a > dream -- no money, no donors, no land, not a thing. Within two > years the municipality quit electrocuting dogs, within six years he > got to 80% of the dogs within the central city sterilized, & in > recent years has moved outward into the surrounding suburbs. > > As hard as people like Sehgal, Grant, and Nath work, I > don't really see them working a whole lot harder than many of the > people who get only much smaller amounts accomplished, some of whom > are already working themselves to exhaustion and collapse. > > What I do see is that they work with higher goals, & manage > to infect many more people with their ambition & enthusiasm. > > > > -- > Merritt Clifton > Editor, ANIMAL PEOPLE > P.O. Box 960 > Clinton, WA 98236 > > Telephone: 360-579-2505 > Fax: 360-579-2575 > E-mail: anmlpepl > Web: www.animalpeoplenews.org > > [ANIMAL PEOPLE is the leading independent newspaper providing > original investigative coverage of animal protection worldwide, > founded in 1992. Our readership of 30,000-plus includes the > decision-makers at more than 10,000 animal protection organizations. > We have no alignment or affiliation with any other entity. $24/year; > for free sample, send address.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 There is a difference in a RESCUE and a Control Centre. One exists primarily to control , mainly for human convenience as in too many dogs on the streets. A rescue puts the animals first as in not killing old or injured animals but in giving them a chance at life.We have been helping individual dogs that if they were brought to a control centre they would have been killed.This has already happened to some dogs that we couldnt get to in time.They were brought elsewhere and are dead now. We may never be able to clean up Kathmandu but we are covering a small area and I think maybe I have a different perspective on this, I started this to help a dog I saw dying in the stupa when I visited there the first time. I was horrified by the hunger and suffering these dogs endured , I contacted Rai and it went from there. I know there are thousands in Kathmandu, I wish I could help them all but I cant, I can just make a few lives better, Rai does a great job and hopefully together our work can expand to accommodate more animals. I appreciate the work that you are all involved in but as an animal rights activist I feel that what we are doing in SDON is vital for the animals suffering now. It is a rescue and it is a lifeline for the dogs there. Other centres operate differently so we will have to progress with what we believe in, its getting colder in the Valley now so more dogs are coming in to us. .......so thats our priority for now. Spaying and neutering will continue in our centre also, hopefully attitudes will change in the Valley. Ill be doing a report and appeal soon so I will send it to you. good luck with all of your projects. Bernie Wright, sdon, - Herojig Merritt Clifton ; aapn Thursday, January 03, 2008 6:56 AM Re: (NP) Fw: (ID) Care for stray dogs and cats Hi Merritt! So finally we agree on something, re: ur numbers! (It had to happen sooner or later.) Your post is " well said. " The KAT Centre here is very successful and operates pretty much as you say, but they can only do 1/4 of the job needed in the valley, using your numbers. The animalNEPAL ABC centre will bring that up to 1/2 the job...which if left at that may take longer then my lifetime to see the job complete. It looks like 4 fully operational and funded centres are needed to make a significant improvement (one at each compass point in town, and ideally one extra one in the center). But the good news is that as we are piggy-backing off KAT's success with enthusiastic volunteers and professional Vet support, so we may be able to find enough donors to fund the building of another Centre based on the KAT model. Then perhaps with 2 open, they will multiply like rabbits (sic). But here is something from your paper that we have found to be SO SO true, and all of us in a situation as found in KTM and other places in Asia can learn from: ³No humane society anywhere should even think about starting a shelter until and unless the numbers of homeless dogs and cats are markedly reduced, and until the public shows increased sympathy and tolerance toward them. Public education can begin with as little as one volunteer sharing knowledge by word-of-mouth. If sterilization and vaccination is properly promoted, and humane education is successful, a community will never need conventional animal control shelters.² --From Animal People Magazine (US) November, 2003 We have learned this from DIRECT experience, so we know it's true. And to extrapolate that out a bit, rescuing and sheltering strays without a shelter may be a futile and frustrating experience as well (albeit a noble cause), until the humane education component is in place. That's where animalNEPAL as an org has a strength. We have big mouths and for 2008 we plan on using that talent. Cheers Merritt, and thanks for the great info! Jigs www.animalnepal.org > Merritt Clifton <anmlpepl > Wed, 2 Jan 2008 19:30:46 -0800 > <aapn > > Re: (NP) Fw: (ID) Care for stray dogs and cats > >>> We have to go slowly due to resources. I think you are being a bit >>> ambitious with the numbers. We just do a few hundred dogs a year > > > This may be setting standards too low, depending on how many > hours per week you hire your surgeon. > > A good sterilization surgeon can sterilize 20 dogs a day in a > mobile unit, 40 a day in a fixed-site clinic with the assistance of > two vet techs, & sustain the pace through a four-day surgical work > week. > > Working at that pace builds in all sorts of efficiencies of > scale--and gets the job done. > > But it also requires learning to maintain strict asepsis, so > as to avoid complications of surgery, and to operate making only > keyhole incisions (which are much less likely to become infected.) > > If you have 50,000 dogs in the Kathmandu Valley, you need to > sterilize at least 35,000 (70%) to stabilize the population. Each > sterilization above that target will begin to reduce the population. > > However, until you get to 70% sterilized, the population > will continue to grow, and you will have to perform more surgeries > over time than just the 35,000 you would have to perform to reach the > goal if you could do all the necessary surgeries in just one year. > > Good vets tend to like to learn how to work at high speed > without complications, in part because they realize they can make a > hell of a lot more money that way. For example, a shelter vet in > the U.S. who can only do 20 surgeries per day will make about $60,000 > a year, but a shelter vet who does 40 will command $100,000-plus, > in his or her choice of communities -- and will be a bargain for > whoever pays the wage, because so much more work will be done for > the price. > > The money to pay a good sterilization surgeon, anywhere, > comes from demonstrating success. > > Relatively few donors will invest in a program that > sterilizes only a few hundred dogs per year, because that program > will not make a visible difference unless all of the surgeries are > concentrated in a particular neighborhood, to show on a limited > scale what can be accomplished by reaching the 70% target within a > specified area. > > If you show that you can make a big difference, though, > bigger donors & more donors will jump on the bandwagon, and you may > be able to attract municipal funding. > > A few hundred dogs a year is fine if all you want to do is > help one neighborhood or prevent breeding in your own care-for-life > shelter, or practice & demonstrate technique, but it doesn't make a > damned bit of difference to the greater picture. To do that, you > need to mobilize and work to high standards, on a large scale -- as, > for example, Rahul Sehgal of Animal Help has done, in Ahmedabad & > elsewhere, using techniques learned from Bali Street Dog Foundation > founder Sherry Grant. > > The success of the Visakha SPCA steriization program in > Visakhapatnam, India, would also be an example worth emulating. > Pradeep Kumar Nath started out there 10 years ago with nothing but a > dream -- no money, no donors, no land, not a thing. Within two > years the municipality quit electrocuting dogs, within six years he > got to 80% of the dogs within the central city sterilized, & in > recent years has moved outward into the surrounding suburbs. > > As hard as people like Sehgal, Grant, and Nath work, I > don't really see them working a whole lot harder than many of the > people who get only much smaller amounts accomplished, some of whom > are already working themselves to exhaustion and collapse. > > What I do see is that they work with higher goals, & manage > to infect many more people with their ambition & enthusiasm. > > > > -- > Merritt Clifton > Editor, ANIMAL PEOPLE > P.O. Box 960 > Clinton, WA 98236 > > Telephone: 360-579-2505 > Fax: 360-579-2575 > E-mail: anmlpepl > Web: www.animalpeoplenews.org > > [ANIMAL PEOPLE is the leading independent newspaper providing > original investigative coverage of animal protection worldwide, > founded in 1992. Our readership of 30,000-plus includes the > decision-makers at more than 10,000 animal protection organizations. > We have no alignment or affiliation with any other entity. $24/year; > for free sample, send address.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 >There is a difference in a RESCUE and a Control Centre. One exists >primarily to control , mainly for human convenience as in too many >dogs on the streets. A rescue puts the animals first as in not >killing old or injured animals but in giving them a chance at life. This is upside down and backward. If the purpose is to reduce the universe of suffering, the first thing one needs to do is reduce the population at risk, by the gentlest possible means, with awareness of the consequences. Sterilizing street dogs does that, in combination with improving refuse disposal so that the gradual decline in numbers of street dogs does not just bring a population explosion of feral cats or urban monkeys. Until the numbers at risk are reduced, trying to relieve suffering by helping one animal at a time is mostly just a feel-good for the people doing it--not least because every time you bring an animal off the street into a shelter, you open habitat to another animal who will live & die in exactly the same manner as the animal you just rescued. Every removal increases the carrying capacity of the habitat, and the numbers of animals at risk, until you do something to reduce the capacity of the animals at risk to repopulate, and to reduce the conditions that permit them to repopulate. -- Merritt Clifton Editor, ANIMAL PEOPLE P.O. Box 960 Clinton, WA 98236 Telephone: 360-579-2505 Fax: 360-579-2575 E-mail: anmlpepl Web: www.animalpeoplenews.org [ANIMAL PEOPLE is the leading independent newspaper providing original investigative coverage of animal protection worldwide, founded in 1992. Our readership of 30,000-plus includes the decision-makers at more than 10,000 animal protection organizations. We have no alignment or affiliation with any other entity. $24/year; for free sample, send address.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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