Guest guest Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Dear colleagues, Recently the Forest Department of West Bengal caught a tiger using a goat as a live bait. Is this acceptable in animal rights philosophy? I would be grateful if someone could share some information on the ethics of using animals as live bait. Many thanks. Regards and good wishes, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 just a few cents frm me... Using live bait in a trap cage with a partition that wil protect the " bait " is the best option. And something i advocate. The " bait " could be a human too..... and if its a metal framed partition, I wouldnt mind being the " bait " myself. On cages without this partition - Had quite some time back come across a debate where one said it is better to hang meat than hold a live goat inside te cage the 2 sides of the argument was using meat would ensure the " bait " does not go through the fear and trauma and the other side to this was that meat came from killing an animal (which went through a trauma almost similar if not worse) and one shouldnt really bother about it....rather address the situation. On 2/25/08, wrote: > > Dear colleagues, > Recently the Forest Department of West Bengal caught > a tiger using a goat as a live bait. Is this acceptable in animal rights > philosophy? I would be grateful if someone could share some information on > the ethics of using animals as live bait. > Many thanks. > Regards and good wishes, > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/07/nangle07.xml Anglers are to be banned from using live fish as bait after politicians decided it was cruel. The ban, which will apply in Scotland, has angered fishermen south of the border who believe it has handed a major victory to animal rights campaigners calling for similar legislation in the rest of Britain. Steve Greenway, a leading angler from Staffordshire who has been on 105 fishing trips to Scotland, said: " If I thought live bait was cruel, I wouldn't use it. Where will it all end? Do you stop using maggots and worms as well? " advertisement Mark Barrett, the general secretary of the Pike Anglers' Club of Great Britain, said: " To have the law change like this on your doorstep is going to be a concern for people in the rest of the UK. " The blanket ban was a last-minute amendment to the Aquaculture and Fisheries Bill, which has just passed through the Scottish Parliament without any objections. It has already been strongly endorsed by Scotland's deputy environment minister Rhona Brankin and will pass through the legislature for a final time in the next three months before becoming law. Green Party MSP Eleanor Scott, who is deputy convenor of the environment and rural affairs development committee and an architect of the Bill, said: " Anglers won't like me saying it, but fish do feel pain and we felt there was a cruelty issue here. " The politicians also believe live bait threatens fish stocks by introducing alien species into their habitats which may bring diseases and parasites. Putting live small fish such as roach on a hook is a common tactic for catching larger, predatory fish like trout, perch and pike, which are drawn to the movement. The coarse fishing industry contributes up to £7 million a year to the Scottish economy. Ron Woods, a policy officer from the Scottish Federation for Coarse Angling, said: " This will hurt fishing tourism. " But Yvonne Taylor, from People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, said the ban was a " massive first step " in the group's fight for one in the rest of Britain. Angling is the nation's most popular participation sport, with an estimated four million devotees. In recent years their hobby has been increasingly targeted by animal rights activists. Last summer saw a spate of attacks on fishermen. Scientists are divided on the issue of whether fish can feel pain. On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 3:01 PM, < journalistandanimals wrote: > Dear colleagues, > Recently the Forest Department of West Bengal caught > a tiger using a goat as a live bait. Is this acceptable in animal rights > philosophy? I would be grateful if someone could share some information on > the ethics of using animals as live bait. > Many thanks. > Regards and good wishes, > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Sorry, this was meant to go to all. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Varda Mehrotra <varda.mehrotra 25 Feb 2008 10:36 Re: Live bait Hi , There's as absolutely no question of the cruelty involved in using animals as live bait. The conditions the bait's in are in are cruel - bare cage, if at all - restricting movement, hunger, thirst - while waiting for a predator (which could take any imaginable time). Moreover, the stress and trauma caused to the animal are unjustifiable. Palbo's comment re " baits being safe " in cages, I'd like to point out that whilst it may be obvious to a human being that he's " safe " another animal might not necessarily know. The easiest answer to a philosophical debate re animal rights is to simply substitute the animal and put in place a 3 year old human child instead. And there is no need to use live baits anymore. Saw a brilliant film couple of years ago where they used a dead corpse of an animal and played the sounds of an animal calling for attention. It's pretty much the same then isnt it? Though I dont think I really support the idea of killing an animal to use as " dead bait " either - but that's another debate! Hope this helps, Varda -- +44 (0)792 088 8769 www.edinburghfurfreecity.co.uk Edinburgh the Fur Free City | 54 Manor Place Edinburgh, Scotland. EH3 7EH Spare 30 seconds to fight against the cruel fur trade. Please sign http://www.edinburghfurfreecity.co.uk/emailpos.php On 25/02/2008, wrote: > > Dear colleagues, > Recently the Forest Department of West Bengal caught > a tiger using a goat as a live bait. Is this acceptable in animal rights > philosophy? I would be grateful if someone could share some information on > the ethics of using animals as live bait. > Many thanks. > Regards and good wishes, > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Substitute a 3 year old? Just cos the kid doesn talk, does not mean he/she does not go through trauma. we'll need to shift to human rights there. LIke i had mentioned....tis could be an endless debate and has always been one on using a live bait or dead meat... What could be done instead is use a cloth, more like a porous cloth which absorbs smell (brought in contact with a live animal) and wrap it around a dummy which can be used as a bait. This is generally done in snake research where scientists who prefer not using live rats to study hunting of boas and pythons in the dark, rub the porous piece of cloth onto a rats body and leave it a distance...which the snakes come tracking. at times sponge is also made use of. On 2/25/08, Varda Mehrotra <varda.mehrotra wrote: > > Sorry, this was meant to go to all. > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Varda Mehrotra <varda.mehrotra<varda.mehrotra%40gmail.com> > > > 25 Feb 2008 10:36 > Re: Live bait > <journalistandanimals<journalistandanimals%40gmail.com> > > > > Hi , > > There's as absolutely no question of the cruelty involved in using animals > as live bait. > > The conditions the bait's in are in are cruel - bare cage, if at all - > restricting movement, hunger, thirst - while waiting for a predator (which > could take any imaginable time). > > Moreover, the stress and trauma caused to the animal are unjustifiable. > Palbo's comment re " baits being safe " in cages, I'd like to point out that > whilst it may be obvious to a human being that he's " safe " another animal > might not necessarily know. > > The easiest answer to a philosophical debate re animal rights is to simply > substitute the animal and put in place a 3 year old human child instead. > > And there is no need to use live baits anymore. Saw a brilliant film > couple > of years ago where they used a dead corpse of an animal and played the > sounds of an animal calling for attention. It's pretty much the same then > isnt it? Though I dont think I really support the idea of killing an > animal > to use as " dead bait " either - but that's another debate! > > Hope this helps, > Varda > > -- > +44 (0)792 088 8769 > www.edinburghfurfreecity.co.uk > Edinburgh the Fur Free City | 54 Manor Place Edinburgh, Scotland. EH3 7EH > > Spare 30 seconds to fight against the cruel fur trade. Please sign > http://www.edinburghfurfreecity.co.uk/emailpos.php > > On 25/02/2008, <journalistandanimals<journalistandanimals%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > Dear colleagues, > > Recently the Forest Department of West Bengal caught > > a tiger using a goat as a live bait. Is this acceptable in animal rights > > philosophy? I would be grateful if someone could share some information > on > > the ethics of using animals as live bait. > > Many thanks. > > Regards and good wishes, > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Dear Pablo, She was talking in philosophical terms and the proposed substitution was hypothetical. Thanks for your views. Regards, On 2/25/08, Pablo <pablo.tachil wrote: > > Substitute a 3 year old? Just cos the kid doesn talk, does not mean he/she > does not go through trauma. we'll need to shift to human rights there. > > LIke i had mentioned....tis could be an endless debate and has always been > one on using a live bait or dead meat... > > What could be done instead is use a cloth, more like a porous cloth which > absorbs smell (brought in contact with a live animal) and wrap it around a > dummy which can be used as a bait. This is generally done in snake research > where scientists who prefer not using live rats to study hunting of boas and > pythons in the dark, rub the porous piece of cloth onto a rats body and > leave it a distance...which the snakes come tracking. at times sponge is > also made use of. > > > On 2/25/08, Varda Mehrotra <varda.mehrotra wrote: > > > > Sorry, this was meant to go to all. > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Varda Mehrotra <varda.mehrotra<varda.mehrotra%40gmail.com> > > > > > 25 Feb 2008 10:36 > > Re: Live bait > > <journalistandanimals<journalistandanimals%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > Hi , > > > > There's as absolutely no question of the cruelty involved in using > > animals > > as live bait. > > > > The conditions the bait's in are in are cruel - bare cage, if at all - > > restricting movement, hunger, thirst - while waiting for a predator > > (which > > could take any imaginable time). > > > > Moreover, the stress and trauma caused to the animal are unjustifiable. > > Palbo's comment re " baits being safe " in cages, I'd like to point out > > that > > whilst it may be obvious to a human being that he's " safe " another > > animal > > might not necessarily know. > > > > The easiest answer to a philosophical debate re animal rights is to > > simply > > substitute the animal and put in place a 3 year old human child instead. > > > > And there is no need to use live baits anymore. Saw a brilliant film > > couple > > of years ago where they used a dead corpse of an animal and played the > > sounds of an animal calling for attention. It's pretty much the same > > then > > isnt it? Though I dont think I really support the idea of killing an > > animal > > to use as " dead bait " either - but that's another debate! > > > > Hope this helps, > > Varda > > > > -- > > +44 (0)792 088 8769 > > www.edinburghfurfreecity.co.uk > > Edinburgh the Fur Free City | 54 Manor Place Edinburgh, Scotland. EH3 > > 7EH > > > > Spare 30 seconds to fight against the cruel fur trade. Please sign > > http://www.edinburghfurfreecity.co.uk/emailpos.php > > > > On 25/02/2008, <journalistandanimals<journalistandanimals%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear colleagues, > > > Recently the Forest Department of West Bengal caught > > > a tiger using a goat as a live bait. Is this acceptable in animal > > rights > > > philosophy? I would be grateful if someone could share some > > information on > > > the ethics of using animals as live bait. > > > Many thanks. > > > Regards and good wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 On 25/02/2008, Pablo <pablo.tachil wrote: > > Substitute a 3 year old? Just cos the kid doesn talk, does not mean he/she > does not go through trauma. we'll need to shift to human rights there. > ------What I meant was that if you think of an issue with a 3-year old (who probably has the same mental capacity, cant talk etc) - instead of an animal, then all arguments would probably just dissolve (including using live bait), and we will finally be free of specieism. Should use animals - human or non-human for any purpose! > > LIke i had mentioned....tis could be an endless debate and has always been > one on using a live bait or dead meat... > > What could be done instead is use a cloth, more like a porous cloth which > absorbs smell (brought in contact with a live animal) and wrap it around a > dummy which can be used as a bait. This is generally done in snake research > where scientists who prefer not using live rats to study hunting of boas and > pythons in the dark, rub the porous piece of cloth onto a rats body and > leave it a distance...which the snakes come tracking. at times sponge is > also made use of. > ---Good one! Its almost disappointing to see all the alternatives out there but people still using animals. Its interesting learning about all the alternatives companies are now suddenly coming up with because of the looming ban on the animal testing for cosmetics. Best, Varda > On 2/25/08, Varda Mehrotra <varda.mehrotra wrote: > > > Sorry, this was meant to go to all. > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Varda Mehrotra <varda.mehrotra<varda.mehrotra%40gmail.com> > > > > > 25 Feb 2008 10:36 > > Re: Live bait > > <journalistandanimals<journalistandanimals%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > Hi , > > > > There's as absolutely no question of the cruelty involved in using > > animals > > as live bait. > > > > The conditions the bait's in are in are cruel - bare cage, if at all - > > restricting movement, hunger, thirst - while waiting for a predator > > (which > > could take any imaginable time). > > > > Moreover, the stress and trauma caused to the animal are unjustifiable. > > Palbo's comment re " baits being safe " in cages, I'd like to point out > > that > > whilst it may be obvious to a human being that he's " safe " another > > animal > > might not necessarily know. > > > > The easiest answer to a philosophical debate re animal rights is to > > simply > > substitute the animal and put in place a 3 year old human child instead. > > > > And there is no need to use live baits anymore. Saw a brilliant film > > couple > > of years ago where they used a dead corpse of an animal and played the > > sounds of an animal calling for attention. It's pretty much the same > > then > > isnt it? Though I dont think I really support the idea of killing an > > animal > > to use as " dead bait " either - but that's another debate! > > > > Hope this helps, > > Varda > > > > -- > > +44 (0)792 088 8769 > > www.edinburghfurfreecity.co.uk > > Edinburgh the Fur Free City | 54 Manor Place Edinburgh, Scotland. EH3 > > 7EH > > > > Spare 30 seconds to fight against the cruel fur trade. Please sign > > http://www.edinburghfurfreecity.co.uk/emailpos.php > > > > On 25/02/2008, <journalistandanimals<journalistandanimals%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear colleagues, > > > Recently the Forest Department of West Bengal caught > > > a tiger using a goat as a live bait. Is this acceptable in animal > > rights > > > philosophy? I would be grateful if someone could share some > > information on > > > the ethics of using animals as live bait. > > > Many thanks. > > > Regards and good wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 >Recently the Forest Department of West Bengal caught a tiger using a >goat as a live bait. A tiger who uses a goat as live bait should be most sternly reprimanded, with cc. to the District Collector. I believe the Forest Department has a form for the purpose. -- Merritt Clifton Editor, ANIMAL PEOPLE P.O. Box 960 Clinton, WA 98236 Telephone: 360-579-2505 Fax: 360-579-2575 E-mail: anmlpepl Web: www.animalpeoplenews.org [ANIMAL PEOPLE is the leading independent newspaper providing original investigative coverage of animal protection worldwide, founded in 1992. Our readership of 30,000-plus includes the decision-makers at more than 10,000 animal protection organizations. We have no alignment or affiliation with any other entity. $24/year; for free sample, send address.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Dear colleagues, Thank you for your response. The issue of using live bait to capture wild animals is within the ambit of the debate examining the use of live animals as food in zoos. Animals as live bait in Chinese zoos have stirred much debate and rightly so. I hope that animal welfare/rights organisations will take appropriate action in this context in India. Regards and good wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2008 Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 > " A tiger who uses a goat as live bait should be most sternly >reprimanded, with cc. to the District Collector. " > How do you reprimand a tiger? In writing or verbally? The usual procedure is to yank his stripes. -- Merritt Clifton Editor, ANIMAL PEOPLE P.O. Box 960 Clinton, WA 98236 Telephone: 360-579-2505 Fax: 360-579-2575 E-mail: anmlpepl Web: www.animalpeoplenews.org [ANIMAL PEOPLE is the leading independent newspaper providing original investigative coverage of animal protection worldwide, founded in 1992. Our readership of 30,000-plus includes the decision-makers at more than 10,000 animal protection organizations. We have no alignment or affiliation with any other entity. $24/year; for free sample, send address.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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