Richard Dawkins on minimizing suffering to animals raised for slaughter

[Guest guest]

Taken to its logical conclusion, Dawkins should minimize animal

suffering

By not eating them since suffering is an integral part so much of the

raising and transportation of these animals. So, is Dawkins being

intellectually honest when he says that he has no objection to meat

eating if the animal does not suffer?

 

And, Shobhobroto, certainly you of all people are fully aware of this

fact.

 

If the level of debate has to come down to " plants have life and how can

we eat them " , may be it is time to stop the debate.

 

Happy new year, everyone.

 

S. Chinny Krishna

 

 

 

 

 

aapn [aapn ] On Behalf Of

 

30 December 2008 16:49

AAPN List

Richard Dawkins on minimizing suffering to animals

raised for slaughter

 

This would hold true for animals raised exclusively for slaughter to

feed

carnivorous animals in captivity. However I disagree with him regarding

the

comparative nature of suffering of animals as compared to humans that

are

destined for slaughter.

 

http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/richard-dawkins

 

You mention in the book 'The Ancestor's Tale' that you are appalled at

the

works of liberal thinkers from 100 years ago-I think this is part of

" The

Grasshopper's Tale. " You are appalled at their comments on race, and you

wonder what scholars 100 years from now might be appalled at. You

speculate

that it might be our treatment of other species. This made me wonder:

Are

you a vegetarian? *

 

*No, I'm not, and that's an interesting question. What I believe is that

we

should try to minimize suffering. And so I would have no objection to

killing something to eat it, provided it doesn't suffer. So I'm much

more

worried about the suffering in slaughterhouses and in factory farms-the

dread that might enter the mind of a cow or pig when it's being led to

the

slaughter. To the extent that slaughtering practices are humane, I see

no

objection to using animals for meat.*

*The objection to using humans for meat would be not just that they are

human, but that they would feel fear, they would know what was coming to

them, they would be in a position to suffer in a way that a pig or a

cow, if

it was well treated, would not. So my aim would always be to reduce

suffering, not to take a kind of absolutist position that there is

something

special and unique about humans which entitles them to exploit and use

other

species of animal for any purpose.*

 

Professor Richard Dawkins is the first holder of the newly endowed

Charles

Simonyi Chair in the Public Understanding of Science at the University

of

Oxford.

 

A graduate of Oxford, he did his doctorate under the Nobel-prizewinning

ethologist Niko Tinbergen. In 1967 he was appointed Assistant Professor

of

Zoology at the University of California at Berkeley, returning to Oxford

in

1969. He has been a Fellow of New College since 1970.

 

Professor Dawkins's first book, The Selfish Gene(1976; second edition,

1989)

became an immediate bestseller and has been translated into all the

major

languages. Its more technical sequel, The Extended Phenotype, followed

in

1982. The Blind Watchmaker(1986) won the Royal Society of Literature

Award

and the Los Angeles Times Prize, both in 1987. His other bestsellers

include

River Out of Eden (1995), Climbing Mount Improbable(1996), Unweaving the

Rainbow(1998), and A Devil's Chaplain (2003). His most recent book is

The

Ancestor's Tale(2004). He has lectured all around the world, and in 1991

he

gave the Royal Institution Christmas Lectures in London.

 

Professor Dawkins's awards have included the Silver Medal of the

Zoological

Society of London (1989), the Royal Society's Michael Faraday Award

(1990),

the Nakayama Prize for Achievement in Human Science (1990), The

International Cosmos Prize (1997) and the Kistler Prize (2001). He has

Honorary Doctorates in both literature and science, and is a Fellow of

the

Royal Society.

 

More information about Professor Dawkins is available on this site in

the

form of a downloadable biography in a PDF format and a list of his

writings.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr Krishna,

I made it explicitly clear at the outset of this

message that I disagreed with Richard Dawkins's position on the comparative

nature of suffering concerning humans and other animals. I agree with you

that he is contradicting himself when he talks about minimizing suffering

and raises no objection to meat eating, and I want to ask him how he

justifies this. I posted the message to illustrate that there are people who

believe in animal welfare and rights but do eat meat. I do not agree with

this position ethically but at the same time I am not convinced that a vegan

diet is the best one for the human digestive system.

I also think he should be invited to deliver a lecture on animal suffering

at the next Asia for Animals conference in Singapore. Maybe Louis could look

into the logistics of bringing him there and if we do meet him, we should

confront him on this.

Best wishes and kind regards,

 

 

 

On 12/31/08, Dr. Chinny Krishna <drkrishna wrote:

>

> Taken to its logical conclusion, Dawkins should minimize animal

> suffering

> By not eating them since suffering is an integral part so much of the

> raising and transportation of these animals. So, is Dawkins being

> intellectually honest when he says that he has no objection to meat

> eating if the animal does not suffer?

>

> And, Shobhobroto, certainly you of all people are fully aware of this

> fact.

>

> If the level of debate has to come down to " plants have life and how can

> we eat them " , may be it is time to stop the debate.

>

> Happy new year, everyone.

>

> S. Chinny Krishna

>

>

>

>

>

> aapn [aapn ] On Behalf Of

>

> 30 December 2008 16:49

> AAPN List

> Richard Dawkins on minimizing suffering to animals

> raised for slaughter

>

> This would hold true for animals raised exclusively for slaughter to

> feed

> carnivorous animals in captivity. However I disagree with him regarding

> the

> comparative nature of suffering of animals as compared to humans that

> are

> destined for slaughter.

>

> http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/richard-dawkins

>

> You mention in the book 'The Ancestor's Tale' that you are appalled at

> the

> works of liberal thinkers from 100 years ago-I think this is part of

> " The

> Grasshopper's Tale. " You are appalled at their comments on race, and you

> wonder what scholars 100 years from now might be appalled at. You

> speculate

> that it might be our treatment of other species. This made me wonder:

> Are

> you a vegetarian? *

>

> *No, I'm not, and that's an interesting question. What I believe is that

> we

> should try to minimize suffering. And so I would have no objection to

> killing something to eat it, provided it doesn't suffer. So I'm much

> more

> worried about the suffering in slaughterhouses and in factory farms-the

> dread that might enter the mind of a cow or pig when it's being led to

> the

> slaughter. To the extent that slaughtering practices are humane, I see

> no

> objection to using animals for meat.*

> *The objection to using humans for meat would be not just that they are

> human, but that they would feel fear, they would know what was coming to

> them, they would be in a position to suffer in a way that a pig or a

> cow, if

> it was well treated, would not. So my aim would always be to reduce

> suffering, not to take a kind of absolutist position that there is

> something

> special and unique about humans which entitles them to exploit and use

> other

> species of animal for any purpose.*

>

> Professor Richard Dawkins is the first holder of the newly endowed

> Charles

> Simonyi Chair in the Public Understanding of Science at the University

> of

> Oxford.

>

> A graduate of Oxford, he did his doctorate under the Nobel-prizewinning

> ethologist Niko Tinbergen. In 1967 he was appointed Assistant Professor

> of

> Zoology at the University of California at Berkeley, returning to Oxford

> in

> 1969. He has been a Fellow of New College since 1970.

>

> Professor Dawkins's first book, The Selfish Gene(1976; second edition,

> 1989)

> became an immediate bestseller and has been translated into all the

> major

> languages. Its more technical sequel, The Extended Phenotype, followed

> in

> 1982. The Blind Watchmaker(1986) won the Royal Society of Literature

> Award

> and the Los Angeles Times Prize, both in 1987. His other bestsellers

> include

> River Out of Eden (1995), Climbing Mount Improbable(1996), Unweaving the

> Rainbow(1998), and A Devil's Chaplain (2003). His most recent book is

> The

> Ancestor's Tale(2004). He has lectured all around the world, and in 1991

> he

> gave the Royal Institution Christmas Lectures in London.

>

> Professor Dawkins's awards have included the Silver Medal of the

> Zoological

> Society of London (1989), the Royal Society's Michael Faraday Award

> (1990),

> the Nakayama Prize for Achievement in Human Science (1990), The

> International Cosmos Prize (1997) and the Kistler Prize (2001). He has

> Honorary Doctorates in both literature and science, and is a Fellow of

> the

> Royal Society.

>

> More information about Professor Dawkins is available on this site in

> the

> form of a downloadable biography in a PDF format and a list of his

> writings.