Guest guest Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Well put , thx for the exra info! Jigs On 1/11/09 3:27 AM, " vspcaindia " <weintraub wrote: > > > > Regarding the below about Paul McCartney just last year Buddhist and > animal advocacy author Norm Phelps " The Great Compassion: Buddhism and > Animal Rights " ; took a public stand confronting the Dalai Lama. > > I believe Cat Clyne's observations below made many years ago still stand > today. She was a great editor for my article in Satya " Life as a > Vegetarian Tibetan Buddhist Practitioner -- online through SERV > http://www.serv-online.org/-Weintraub.htm or > http://www.shabkar.org/download/pdf/_Weintraub.pdf > > Through the years I have found this article has done little to persuade > meat eating Buddhists but what is has done is to explain their behavior > to vegetarians. > > Generally, it is most gratifying to see the situation changing after > watching it for 33 years now! Many monasteries in Tibet and India are > now fully vegetarian (unheard of years ago). One of the 4 main leaders > of Tibetan Buddhism, the young reincarnate Lama " The Karmapa " also has > taken a powerful stand for vegetarianism. This was a lifetime dream of > mine come true as I lived in his dharma center during his last > incarnation. However, unknown to many, the tradition of vegetarians in > Tibetan Buddhism goes back centuries. > > Find all info about this on: http://www.shabkar.org. > > What hope is there is for the upcoming generations (generally it is very > hard to get anyone over a certain age to change their diet) and that is > through the young people with the great vegetarian activists > convincing the Tibetans in India to go veg at great events such as the > great prayer gatherings. > > http://www.semchen.org/ > > While the plight of the Tibetan people within Tibet remains very sad at > least the message of diet corresponding to Buddhist compassion is > evolving for the better in Tibetan Buddhist practitioners in India and > the west. > > Weintraub, Seattle, WA USA > VSPCA volunteer for global outreach > www.vspca.org > > aapn <aapn%40> , Herojig > <herojig wrote: >> > >> > Hi Shub. At some point most debates move from interesting to boring > to >> > inane. That is another example. Here is a bit of an editorial from > July of >> > 1999, written by Catherine Clyne, who was editor of now defunct Satya >> > magazine (vegetarianism * environmentalism * animal advocacy * social >> > justice): >> > >> > Why is the diet of a Tibetan holy man so important? As an ethical > vegan, I >> > am disappointed that the Dalai Lama does not choose to be vegetarian, > but I >> > give him credit for discussing the issues and find it hypocritical > that >> > Western non-Buddhists devote so much energy to his ³conversion². > We don't >> > demand that Western religious leaders, peacemakers and heads of state > go >> > vegetarian. Why aren't people outraged by the diets of the Reverend > Jessie >> > Jackson, President Bill Clinton, the Roman Catholic Pope, Prime > Minister >> > Tony Blair and Jerry Falwell‹even of those very influential people > who have >> > passed away, such as Mother Teresa and Princess Diana? These people > have and >> > had more of a direct effect on the lives of Western vegans and > vegetarians >> > than does the Dalai Lama. Moreover, unlike His Holiness, no > significant >> > Western leaders have ever publicly acknowledged the ethics of a > vegetarian >> > diet. The occasional fanfare over Boca Burgers served at the White > House >> > amounts to very little when compared with the statements of the Dalai > Lama. >> > If we don't confront our own leaders, peacemakers, etc., is it not >> > hypocritical and self-righteous for Westerners to determine what the > Dalai >> > Lama must eat and which doctor he should trust? >> > >> > More insulting is the repeated criticism that by eating meat His > Holiness >> > defies the Buddhist proviso of causing non-harm and the very ideals > that he >> > embodies as the incarnation of the Bodhisattva of Compassion. While > the >> > topic is controversial, there is no concrete evidence that the Buddha >> > himself was a vegetarian. As an ascetic, he relied upon whatever food > was >> > offered, which may have been vegetarian but could possibly have > contained >> > meat. The majority of Buddhists are in fact not vegetarian, although > there >> > certainly are pockets of believers who are. For a man who has > practiced >> > Buddhism his entire life, who are we to criticize the religious > adherence of >> > the Dalai Lama? Where is the compassion, tolerance and respect for a > man who >> > is leading his own way of compassion? Can't we agree to disagree and > respect >> > the personal decisions of others who are at least aware of the issues > so >> > that we might focus our energy and efforts on those in our society who > do >> > not even acknowledge the issues of a vegetarian diet, and who affect > our >> > lives more directly? >> > Catherine Clyne >> > >> > On 1/9/09 2:07 PM, " " journalistandanimals >> > wrote: >> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > I am not a great Paul McCartney fan, but found this debate on > vegetarianism >>> > > interesting. >>> > > >>> > > > http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/mccartneys%20meat%20row%20w\ > ith%20 > <http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/mccartneys%20meat%20row%20with%2 > 0> >>> > > dalai%20lama_1089529 >>> > > SIR PAUL MCCARTNEY - MCCARTNEY'S MEAT ROW WITH DALAI LAMA >>> > > SIR PAUL MCCARTNEY tried to turn the DALAI LAMA vegetarian, > insisting the >>> > > famed Buddhist was " wrong " to eat meat. >>> > > The Beatles legend wrote to the spiritual leader to point out that >>> > > meat-eaters contribute to the suffering of animals, contradicting > his >>> > > statement that Buddhists " believe in not causing suffering to any > sentient >>> > > beings " . >>> > > And the Hey Jude hitmaker even disagreed when the Dalai Lama > insisted he ate >>> > > meat for health reasons. >>> > > In an interview with Prospect magazine, MCCartney says, " I found out > he was >>> > > not a vegetarian, so I wrote to him saying 'Forgive me for pointing > this >>> > > out, but if you eat animals then there is some suffering somewhere > along the >>> > > line'. >>> > > " He replied saying that his doctors had told him he needed it, so I > wrote >>> > > back saying they were wrong. 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