Guest guest Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Hi Shub. At some point most debates move from interesting to boring to inane. That is another example. Here is a bit of an editorial from July of 1999, written by Catherine Clyne, who was editor of now defunct Satya magazine (vegetarianism * environmentalism * animal advocacy * social justice): Why is the diet of a Tibetan holy man so important? As an ethical vegan, I am disappointed that the Dalai Lama does not choose to be vegetarian, but I give him credit for discussing the issues and find it hypocritical that Western non-Buddhists devote so much energy to his ³conversion². We don't demand that Western religious leaders, peacemakers and heads of state go vegetarian. Why aren't people outraged by the diets of the Reverend Jessie Jackson, President Bill Clinton, the Roman Catholic Pope, Prime Minister Tony Blair and Jerry Falwell‹even of those very influential people who have passed away, such as Mother Teresa and Princess Diana? These people have and had more of a direct effect on the lives of Western vegans and vegetarians than does the Dalai Lama. Moreover, unlike His Holiness, no significant Western leaders have ever publicly acknowledged the ethics of a vegetarian diet. The occasional fanfare over Boca Burgers served at the White House amounts to very little when compared with the statements of the Dalai Lama. If we don't confront our own leaders, peacemakers, etc., is it not hypocritical and self-righteous for Westerners to determine what the Dalai Lama must eat and which doctor he should trust? More insulting is the repeated criticism that by eating meat His Holiness defies the Buddhist proviso of causing non-harm and the very ideals that he embodies as the incarnation of the Bodhisattva of Compassion. While the topic is controversial, there is no concrete evidence that the Buddha himself was a vegetarian. As an ascetic, he relied upon whatever food was offered, which may have been vegetarian but could possibly have contained meat. The majority of Buddhists are in fact not vegetarian, although there certainly are pockets of believers who are. For a man who has practiced Buddhism his entire life, who are we to criticize the religious adherence of the Dalai Lama? Where is the compassion, tolerance and respect for a man who is leading his own way of compassion? Can't we agree to disagree and respect the personal decisions of others who are at least aware of the issues so that we might focus our energy and efforts on those in our society who do not even acknowledge the issues of a vegetarian diet, and who affect our lives more directly? Catherine Clyne On 1/9/09 2:07 PM, " " wrote: > > > > I am not a great Paul McCartney fan, but found this debate on vegetarianism > interesting. > > http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/mccartneys%20meat%20row%20with%20 > dalai%20lama_1089529 > SIR PAUL MCCARTNEY - MCCARTNEY'S MEAT ROW WITH DALAI LAMA > SIR PAUL MCCARTNEY tried to turn the DALAI LAMA vegetarian, insisting the > famed Buddhist was " wrong " to eat meat. > The Beatles legend wrote to the spiritual leader to point out that > meat-eaters contribute to the suffering of animals, contradicting his > statement that Buddhists " believe in not causing suffering to any sentient > beings " . > And the Hey Jude hitmaker even disagreed when the Dalai Lama insisted he ate > meat for health reasons. > In an interview with Prospect magazine, MCCartney says, " I found out he was > not a vegetarian, so I wrote to him saying 'Forgive me for pointing this > out, but if you eat animals then there is some suffering somewhere along the > line'. > " He replied saying that his doctors had told him he needed it, so I wrote > back saying they were wrong. " > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 *Dear Jigme,* * Many thanks for posting this. Catherine Clyne makes many good observations. I want to share with you two sayings, one from Buddhism and another from Jainism: * http://www.meaninginmylife.com/ * " Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find anything that agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. " -Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha), 563-483 B.C.* * Or this from Jainism : " Once when he sat [in meditation]…they cut his flesh…tore his hair…picked him up and…dropped him…the Venerable One( Vardhamana Mahavira) bore the pain. " (from the Acaranga Sutra) * * Gautama Buddha may not have been a vegetarian, but modern day rationalists would be hard pressed to produce something as eloquent and relevant to civilised living as what he proclaimed. No wonder Buddhism is such a great religion and so is Jainism. I am not religious, but when I first read the Dhammapada, I wept like a baby, it is so incredibly moving. The Tibetan Conservation Awareness Campaign of the Wildlife Trust of India, **launched by the Dalai Lama, has evoked an emotional response from the Tibetan community, which has begun giving up using illegal animal products and publicly burnt their dresses lined with tiger, leopard and other furs. Regardless of his diet, if he is preaching the compassionate tenets of Buddhism to save lives, that should be appreciated in my opinion.* * Best wishes and kind regards,* ** * * On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Herojig <herojig wrote: > Hi Shub. At some point most debates move from interesting to boring to > inane. That is another example. Here is a bit of an editorial from July of > 1999, written by Catherine Clyne, who was editor of now defunct Satya > magazine (vegetarianism * environmentalism * animal advocacy * social > justice): > > *Why is the diet of a Tibetan holy man so important? As an ethical vegan, > I am disappointed that the Dalai Lama does not choose to be vegetarian, but > I give him credit for discussing the issues and find it hypocritical that > Western non-Buddhists devote so much energy to his " conversion " . We don't > demand that Western religious leaders, peacemakers and heads of state go > vegetarian. Why aren't people outraged by the diets of the Reverend Jessie > Jackson, President Bill Clinton, the Roman Catholic Pope, Prime Minister > Tony Blair and Jerry Falwell—even of those very influential people who have > passed away, such as Mother Teresa and Princess Diana? These people have and > had more of a direct effect on the lives of Western vegans and vegetarians > than does the Dalai Lama. Moreover, unlike His Holiness, no significant > Western leaders have ever publicly acknowledged the ethics of a vegetarian > diet. The occasional fanfare over Boca Burgers served at the White House > amounts to very little when compared with the statements of the Dalai Lama. > If we don't confront our own leaders, peacemakers, etc., is it not > hypocritical and self-righteous for Westerners to determine what the Dalai > Lama must eat and which doctor he should trust? > > More insulting is the repeated criticism that by eating meat His Holiness > defies the Buddhist proviso of causing non-harm and the very ideals that he > embodies as the incarnation of the Bodhisattva of Compassion. While the > topic is controversial, there is no concrete evidence that the Buddha > himself was a vegetarian. As an ascetic, he relied upon whatever food was > offered, which may have been vegetarian but could possibly have contained > meat. The majority of Buddhists are in fact not vegetarian, although there > certainly are pockets of believers who are. For a man who has practiced > Buddhism his entire life, who are we to criticize the religious adherence of > the Dalai Lama? Where is the compassion, tolerance and respect for a man who > is leading his own way of compassion? Can't we agree to disagree and respect > the personal decisions of others who are at least aware of the issues so > that we might focus our energy and efforts on those in our society who do > not even acknowledge the issues of a vegetarian diet, and who affect our > lives more directly? > Catherine Clyne > * > > On 1/9/09 2:07 PM, " " > wrote: > > > > > I am not a great Paul McCartney fan, but found this debate on vegetarianism > interesting. > > > http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/mccartneys%20meat%20row%20with%20da\ lai%20lama_1089529 > SIR PAUL MCCARTNEY - MCCARTNEY'S MEAT ROW WITH DALAI LAMA > SIR PAUL MCCARTNEY tried to turn the DALAI LAMA vegetarian, insisting the > famed Buddhist was " wrong " to eat meat. > The Beatles legend wrote to the spiritual leader to point out that > meat-eaters contribute to the suffering of animals, contradicting his > statement that Buddhists " believe in not causing suffering to any sentient > beings " . > And the Hey Jude hitmaker even disagreed when the Dalai Lama insisted he > ate > meat for health reasons. > In an interview with Prospect magazine, MCCartney says, " I found out he was > not a vegetarian, so I wrote to him saying 'Forgive me for pointing this > out, but if you eat animals then there is some suffering somewhere along > the > line'. > " He replied saying that his doctors had told him he needed it, so I wrote > back saying they were wrong. " > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Regarding the below about Paul McCartney just last year Buddhist and animal advocacy author Norm Phelps " The Great Compassion: Buddhism and Animal Rights " ; took a public stand confronting the Dalai Lama. I believe Cat Clyne's observations below made many years ago still stand today. She was a great editor for my article in Satya " Life as a Vegetarian Tibetan Buddhist Practitioner -- online through SERV http://www.serv-online.org/-Weintraub.htm or http://www.shabkar.org/download/pdf/_Weintraub.pdf Through the years I have found this article has done little to persuade meat eating Buddhists but what is has done is to explain their behavior to vegetarians. Generally, it is most gratifying to see the situation changing after watching it for 33 years now! Many monasteries in Tibet and India are now fully vegetarian (unheard of years ago). One of the 4 main leaders of Tibetan Buddhism, the young reincarnate Lama " The Karmapa " also has taken a powerful stand for vegetarianism. This was a lifetime dream of mine come true as I lived in his dharma center during his last incarnation. However, unknown to many, the tradition of vegetarians in Tibetan Buddhism goes back centuries. Find all info about this on: http://www.shabkar.org. What hope is there is for the upcoming generations (generally it is very hard to get anyone over a certain age to change their diet) and that is through the young people with the great vegetarian activists convincing the Tibetans in India to go veg at great events such as the great prayer gatherings. http://www.semchen.org/ While the plight of the Tibetan people within Tibet remains very sad at least the message of diet corresponding to Buddhist compassion is evolving for the better in Tibetan Buddhist practitioners in India and the west. Weintraub, Seattle, WA USA VSPCA volunteer for global outreach www.vspca.org aapn , Herojig <herojig wrote: > > Hi Shub. At some point most debates move from interesting to boring to > inane. That is another example. Here is a bit of an editorial from July of > 1999, written by Catherine Clyne, who was editor of now defunct Satya > magazine (vegetarianism * environmentalism * animal advocacy * social > justice): > > Why is the diet of a Tibetan holy man so important? As an ethical vegan, I > am disappointed that the Dalai Lama does not choose to be vegetarian, but I > give him credit for discussing the issues and find it hypocritical that > Western non-Buddhists devote so much energy to his ³conversion². We don't > demand that Western religious leaders, peacemakers and heads of state go > vegetarian. Why aren't people outraged by the diets of the Reverend Jessie > Jackson, President Bill Clinton, the Roman Catholic Pope, Prime Minister > Tony Blair and Jerry Falwell‹even of those very influential people who have > passed away, such as Mother Teresa and Princess Diana? These people have and > had more of a direct effect on the lives of Western vegans and vegetarians > than does the Dalai Lama. Moreover, unlike His Holiness, no significant > Western leaders have ever publicly acknowledged the ethics of a vegetarian > diet. The occasional fanfare over Boca Burgers served at the White House > amounts to very little when compared with the statements of the Dalai Lama. > If we don't confront our own leaders, peacemakers, etc., is it not > hypocritical and self-righteous for Westerners to determine what the Dalai > Lama must eat and which doctor he should trust? > > More insulting is the repeated criticism that by eating meat His Holiness > defies the Buddhist proviso of causing non-harm and the very ideals that he > embodies as the incarnation of the Bodhisattva of Compassion. While the > topic is controversial, there is no concrete evidence that the Buddha > himself was a vegetarian. As an ascetic, he relied upon whatever food was > offered, which may have been vegetarian but could possibly have contained > meat. The majority of Buddhists are in fact not vegetarian, although there > certainly are pockets of believers who are. For a man who has practiced > Buddhism his entire life, who are we to criticize the religious adherence of > the Dalai Lama? Where is the compassion, tolerance and respect for a man who > is leading his own way of compassion? Can't we agree to disagree and respect > the personal decisions of others who are at least aware of the issues so > that we might focus our energy and efforts on those in our society who do > not even acknowledge the issues of a vegetarian diet, and who affect our > lives more directly? > Catherine Clyne > > On 1/9/09 2:07 PM, " " journalistandanimals > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I am not a great Paul McCartney fan, but found this debate on vegetarianism > > interesting. > > > > http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/mccartneys%20meat%20row%20w\ ith%20 > > dalai%20lama_1089529 > > SIR PAUL MCCARTNEY - MCCARTNEY'S MEAT ROW WITH DALAI LAMA > > SIR PAUL MCCARTNEY tried to turn the DALAI LAMA vegetarian, insisting the > > famed Buddhist was " wrong " to eat meat. > > The Beatles legend wrote to the spiritual leader to point out that > > meat-eaters contribute to the suffering of animals, contradicting his > > statement that Buddhists " believe in not causing suffering to any sentient > > beings " . > > And the Hey Jude hitmaker even disagreed when the Dalai Lama insisted he ate > > meat for health reasons. > > In an interview with Prospect magazine, MCCartney says, " I found out he was > > not a vegetarian, so I wrote to him saying 'Forgive me for pointing this > > out, but if you eat animals then there is some suffering somewhere along the > > line'. > > " He replied saying that his doctors had told him he needed it, so I wrote > > back saying they were wrong. " > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 I agree with Paul McCartney and believe that hypocrisy will not get anyone anywhere. Here is an interview with Heather Mills for those who have time. She healed herself by switching to a vegan diet. http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/01/09/exclusive-heather-mills-opens-up-about-ve ganism-charity-and-staying-positive/ <http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/01/09/exclusive-heather-mills-opens-up-about-v eganism-charity-and-staying-positive/> -- Dr Nandita Shah SHARAN 22 Matru Chhaya 70 Marine Drive Mumbai 400 020 India 022 22814949 www.sharan-india.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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