(IN): India say no to WB fund for tiger conservation

[Guest guest]

http://ptinews.com/news/195624_India-say-no-to-WB-fund-for-tiger-conservation

 

India say no to WB fund for tiger conservation

STAFF WRITER 20:16 HRS IST

 

Archana Jyoti

 

Sariska, July 26 (PTI)

 

India, which is home to 70 per cent of the world's tiger population, does not

need any fund, aid or expertise from the World Bank for conservation of big cats

in the country, Union Minister of Environment Jairam Ramesh has said.

 

Ramesh said the country is self-sufficient to do the job with any outside help

but added that the government was open to the idea of the bank funding for

workshops and conferences aimed to boost conservation and protection of tigers

whose population has dwindled to 1,400 in the latest head count.

 

" We do not need any money from the World Bank for the conservation of tigers in

the country.

 

" Who else but we being the holder of 70 per cent of the world's tiger population

could know the problems better.

[Guest guest]

U just gotta love a country that can stand up and say NO to large bilaterals

and INGOs. But outside of workshops and conferences, is India really doing

a good job of saving tigers? Are there really only a few thousand left? Are

tigers really bound by national borders and left up to the whim of those few

in power: megalomaniacs that launch nuclear submarines and who are

responsible for irreversible and unthinkable pollutions of natural

resources? Are agencies such as the UN and WB so powerless they can¹t just

go in, set up camp, and get the job done - instead of being delegated the

hostesses role of Weekly Workshops Forever (WWF)? This has to be the height

of insanity for the human vision of animal conservation. Meanwhile, normal

folks like you and I just sit on thumbs and watch tigers denigrate during

this lifetime to nothing more then a late night NatGeo re-run.

Jigs in Nepal

 

 

On 7/26/09 11:53 PM, " AZAM SIDDIQUI " <azam24x7 wrote:

 

>

>

>

>

> http://ptinews.com/news/195624_India-say-no-to-WB-fund-for-tiger-conservation

>

> India say no to WB fund for tiger conservation

> STAFF WRITER 20:16 HRS IST

>

> Archana Jyoti

>

> Sariska, July 26 (PTI)

>

> India, which is home to 70 per cent of the world's tiger population, does not

> need any fund, aid or expertise from the World Bank for conservation of big

> cats in the country, Union Minister of Environment Jairam Ramesh has said.

>

> Ramesh said the country is self-sufficient to do the job with any outside help

> but added that the government was open to the idea of the bank funding for

> workshops and conferences aimed to boost conservation and protection of tigers

> whose population has dwindled to 1,400 in the latest head count.

>

> " We do not need any money from the World Bank for the conservation of tigers

> in the country.

>

> " Who else but we being the holder of 70 per cent of the world's tiger

> population could know the problems better.

>

>

>

>>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

The factor here that is most important to for the survival of the TIGER,

ELEPHANT or any other wildlife is the 'WILLPOWER of the GOVERNMENT'.

There are many loopholes in the existing system, and most of the times

financial crunch is not the main reason.

 

The biggest being the neglected forest guards.

 

While the officers and higher ups in the forest department enjoy

promotions, increments etc, it is the vulnerable forest guard who is

expected to perform the herculean task of protecting the TIGER from the

following:

 

1. Sophisticated gun wielding poachers with vintage .303 rusted rifles.

2. Patrolling bare footed in jungles.

3. Pathetic compensation schemes for death or disability.

 

Those are just a few harsh realities among hundreds of other issues that are

crippling the wildlife of India which only get worse.

 

But the good news is that with people like Mr. Jairam Ramesh as the forest

and environment minister one can expect not one not two but many changes and

reforms for good.

 

We had the Prime Minister taking personal interest in pushing forward the

Tiger campaign, but even he was helpless when his office unnecassarity

delayed many projects.

But since Mr. Ramesh has taken charge he has been doing a wonderful job.

 

I just hope in the five years he holds office we can hope to see some good

reforms.

 

 

Azam

 

 

 

 

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Jigs Gaton <herojig wrote:

 

> U just gotta love a country that can stand up and say NO to large

> bilaterals and INGOs. But outside of workshops and conferences, is India

> really doing a good job of saving tigers? Are there really only a few

> thousand left? Are tigers really bound by national borders and left up to

> the whim of those few in power: megalomaniacs that launch nuclear submarines

> and who are responsible for irreversible and unthinkable pollutions of

> natural resources? Are agencies such as the UN and WB so powerless they

> can’t just go in, set up camp, and get the job done - instead of being

> delegated the hostesses role of Weekly Workshops Forever (WWF)? This has to

> be the height of insanity for the human vision of animal conservation.

> Meanwhile, normal folks like you and I just sit on thumbs and watch tigers

> denigrate during this lifetime to nothing more then a late night NatGeo

> re-run.

> Jigs in Nepal

>

>

>

> On 7/26/09 11:53 PM, " AZAM SIDDIQUI " <azam24x7 wrote:

http://ptinews.com/news/195624_India-say-no-to-WB-fund-for-tiger-conservation

>

> India say no to WB fund for tiger conservation

> STAFF WRITER 20:16 HRS IST

>

> Archana Jyoti

>

> Sariska, July 26 (PTI)

>

> India, which is home to 70 per cent of the world's tiger population, does

> not need any fund, aid or expertise from the World Bank for conservation of

> big cats in the country, Union Minister of Environment Jairam Ramesh has

> said.

>

> Ramesh said the country is self-sufficient to do the job with any outside

> help but added that the government was open to the idea of the bank funding

> for workshops and conferences aimed to boost conservation and protection of

> tigers whose population has dwindled to 1,400 in the latest head count.

>

> " We do not need any money from the World Bank for the conservation of

> tigers in the country.

>

> " Who else but we being the holder of 70 per cent of the world's tiger

> population could know the problems better.

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

--

http://www.stopelephantpolo.com

http://www.freewebs.com/azamsiddiqui

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I am sorry Jigme, what is your particular issue with WWF? Is it the sole

responsibility of WWF to save all animals whilst the other animal rights and

welfare groups relax in sofas and hurl bricks at WWF? How does it help a

tiger, or any animal under the sun, if a model strips naked and runs around

in public? There is a recent article on animal rights groups promoting

pornography which I could share with you. Do you ever ask these groups how

they are saving tigers by implementing such policies? You mock the WWF

acronym as Weekly Workshops Forever. How do you know how effective or

ineffective these workshops are? I have participated in them and am in a

position to tell you that the kind of information and exposure forest

department personnel have got from the WWF workshops is unique and they

themselves have said so.May I also ask you how much is Animal Nepal doing to

save tigers and other animals in the wild ? Who does more to save animals in

the wild internationally, Animal Nepal or WWF? You are sitting in Nepal and

lecturing Indians on how to protect tigers and criticising WWF's role in the

endeavour. May I ask you how are tigers and other wild animals faring in

Nepal with or without the help of the World Bank and how much Animal Nepal

is doing to aid conservation? WWF has been at the forefront of the dispute

between India and Nepal regarding the elephant intrusion issue.What was

Animal Nepal's role and was it more or less than WWF in mitigating the

conflict? Please do not take these as sarcastic queries, for I am really

interested to know how much the critics of WWF are doing for conservation

themselves. Had it not been for WWF, Project Tiger would never have started

in India and the world would never have woken up to the plight of tigers the

way it did. It is certainly a matter of concern the way the project has

progressed(or regressed if you like) but to imply that WWF's workshops have

been ineffective along with everything else they have done, is a very biased

way of looking at things. Do you really think that by just bashing WWF,

tigers and other animals will attain salvation? If so, please elaborate.

WWF is a soft target, is it not? Visible, large and influential. And in

India, the official partner of the NTCA, National Tiger Conservation

Authority and works closely with the government to improve things on the

ground. Has anybody at WWF ever denied that things are not perfect and more

needs to done? Criticism is fine but has to be substantiated and

constructive. If you have a problem with the way WWF is functioning, why

don't you take it up with the WWF representatives in Nepal? If you think WWF

is not functioning properly, why don't you do something better and show the

world that it is possible to do conservation better than WWF(if that is the

sole objective, ie., to one up WWF)? And it might be a good idea to compare

WWF's global contribution to conservation to that of the other animal rights

and animal welfare groups. And if it is at all possible, I would invite you

to attend a WWF workshop in India and criticise it for if you think WWF

workshops are ineffective(I suppose all the other animal conferences solve

all the world's animal problems with a magic wand, yeah?) then I am sure the

WWF team would like to know why and how things could be improved and

alternative strategies considered.

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts on WWF.

Regards,

 

 

 

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Jigs Gaton <herojig wrote:

 

>

>

> U just gotta love a country that can stand up and say NO to large

> bilaterals

> and INGOs. But outside of workshops and conferences, is India really doing

> a good job of saving tigers? Are there really only a few thousand left? Are

> tigers really bound by national borders and left up to the whim of those

> few

> in power: megalomaniacs that launch nuclear submarines and who are

> responsible for irreversible and unthinkable pollutions of natural

> resources? Are agencies such as the UN and WB so powerless they can¹t just

> go in, set up camp, and get the job done - instead of being delegated the

> hostesses role of Weekly Workshops Forever (WWF)? This has to be the height

> of insanity for the human vision of animal conservation. Meanwhile, normal

> folks like you and I just sit on thumbs and watch tigers denigrate during

> this lifetime to nothing more then a late night NatGeo re-run.

> Jigs in Nepal

>

> On 7/26/09 11:53 PM, " AZAM SIDDIQUI "

<azam24x7<azam24x7%40gmail.com>>

> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> http://ptinews.com/news/195624_India-say-no-to-WB-fund-for-tiger-conservation

> >

> > India say no to WB fund for tiger conservation

> > STAFF WRITER 20:16 HRS IST

> >

> > Archana Jyoti

> >

> > Sariska, July 26 (PTI)

> >

> > India, which is home to 70 per cent of the world's tiger population, does

> not

> > need any fund, aid or expertise from the World Bank for conservation of

> big

> > cats in the country, Union Minister of Environment Jairam Ramesh has

> said.

> >

> > Ramesh said the country is self-sufficient to do the job with any outside

> help

> > but added that the government was open to the idea of the bank funding

> for

> > workshops and conferences aimed to boost conservation and protection of

> tigers

> > whose population has dwindled to 1,400 in the latest head count.

> >

> > " We do not need any money from the World Bank for the conservation of

> tigers

> > in the country.

> >

> > " Who else but we being the holder of 70 per cent of the world's tiger

> > population could know the problems better.

> >

> >

> >

> >>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Shubho,

 

Please refer to our last year discussion over this issue!

It must be on AAPN site...

 

 

Regards,

Nilesh

 

 

[journalistandanimals]

Monday, July 27, 2009 10:41 AM

AAPN List

Re: (IN): India say no to WB fund for tiger conservation

 

 

I am sorry Jigme, what is your particular issue with WWF? Is it the sole

responsibility of WWF to save all animals whilst the other animal rights and

welfare groups relax in sofas and hurl bricks at WWF? How does it help a

tiger, or any animal under the sun, if a model strips naked and runs around

in public? There is a recent article on animal rights groups promoting

pornography which I could share with you. Do you ever ask these groups how

they are saving tigers by implementing such policies? You mock the WWF

acronym as Weekly Workshops Forever. How do you know how effective or

ineffective these workshops are? I have participated in them and am in a

position to tell you that the kind of information and exposure forest

department personnel have got from the WWF workshops is unique and they

themselves have said so.May I also ask you how much is Animal Nepal doing to

save tigers and other animals in the wild ? Who does more to save animals in

the wild internationally, Animal Nepal or WWF? You are sitting in Nepal and

lecturing Indians on how to protect tigers and criticising WWF's role in the

endeavour. May I ask you how are tigers and other wild animals faring in

Nepal with or without the help of the World Bank and how much Animal Nepal

is doing to aid conservation? WWF has been at the forefront of the dispute

between India and Nepal regarding the elephant intrusion issue.What was

Animal Nepal's role and was it more or less than WWF in mitigating the

conflict? Please do not take these as sarcastic queries, for I am really

interested to know how much the critics of WWF are doing for conservation

themselves. Had it not been for WWF, Project Tiger would never have started

in India and the world would never have woken up to the plight of tigers the

way it did. It is certainly a matter of concern the way the project has

progressed(or regressed if you like) but to imply that WWF's workshops have

been ineffective along with everything else they have done, is a very biased

way of looking at things. Do you really think that by just bashing WWF,

tigers and other animals will attain salvation? If so, please elaborate.

WWF is a soft target, is it not? Visible, large and influential. And in

India, the official partner of the NTCA, National Tiger Conservation

Authority and works closely with the government to improve things on the

ground. Has anybody at WWF ever denied that things are not perfect and more

needs to done? Criticism is fine but has to be substantiated and

constructive. If you have a problem with the way WWF is functioning, why

don't you take it up with the WWF representatives in Nepal? If you think WWF

is not functioning properly, why don't you do something better and show the

world that it is possible to do conservation better than WWF(if that is the

sole objective, ie., to one up WWF)? And it might be a good idea to compare

WWF's global contribution to conservation to that of the other animal rights

and animal welfare groups. And if it is at all possible, I would invite you

to attend a WWF workshop in India and criticise it for if you think WWF

workshops are ineffective(I suppose all the other animal conferences solve

all the world's animal problems with a magic wand, yeah?) then I am sure the

WWF team would like to know why and how things could be improved and

alternative strategies considered.

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts on WWF.

Regards,

 

 

 

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Jigs Gaton <herojig

<herojig%40gmail.com> > wrote:

 

>

>

> U just gotta love a country that can stand up and say NO to large

> bilaterals

> and INGOs. But outside of workshops and conferences, is India really doing

> a good job of saving tigers? Are there really only a few thousand left? Are

> tigers really bound by national borders and left up to the whim of those

> few

> in power: megalomaniacs that launch nuclear submarines and who are

> responsible for irreversible and unthinkable pollutions of natural

> resources? Are agencies such as the UN and WB so powerless they can¹t just

> go in, set up camp, and get the job done - instead of being delegated the

> hostesses role of Weekly Workshops Forever (WWF)? This has to be the height

> of insanity for the human vision of animal conservation. Meanwhile, normal

> folks like you and I just sit on thumbs and watch tigers denigrate during

> this lifetime to nothing more then a late night NatGeo re-run.

> Jigs in Nepal

>

> On 7/26/09 11:53 PM, " AZAM SIDDIQUI " <azam24x7

<azam24x7%40gmail.com> <azam24x7%40gmail.com>>

> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> http://ptinews.com/news/195624_India-say-no-to-WB-fund-for-tiger-conservation

<http://ptinews.com/news/195624_India-say-no-to-WB-fund-for-tiger-conservation>

> >

> > India say no to WB fund for tiger conservation

> > STAFF WRITER 20:16 HRS IST

> >

> > Archana Jyoti

> >

> > Sariska, July 26 (PTI)

> >

> > India, which is home to 70 per cent of the world's tiger population, does

> not

> > need any fund, aid or expertise from the World Bank for conservation of

> big

> > cats in the country, Union Minister of Environment Jairam Ramesh has

> said.

> >

> > Ramesh said the country is self-sufficient to do the job with any outside

> help

> > but added that the government was open to the idea of the bank funding

> for

> > workshops and conferences aimed to boost conservation and protection of

> tigers

> > whose population has dwindled to 1,400 in the latest head count.

> >

> > " We do not need any money from the World Bank for the conservation of

> tigers

> > in the country.

> >

> > " Who else but we being the holder of 70 per cent of the world's tiger

> > population could know the problems better.

> >

> >

> >

> >>

>

>

[Guest guest]

During the Kaziranga Centenary Celebrations in 2005 I was witness to this.

There were seminars and conferences on many issues relating to wildlife

conservation, human elephant conflicts etc which were planned at Kaziranga

by two celebrated organisations who were an integral part of the

celebrations:

 

1. Wildlife Trust of India

2. WWF

 

There was massive protest that was in full swing supported by many including

Ms. Belinda Wright of the WPSI, Smt. Maneka Gandhi, Ms. Anuradha Sawhney of

PETA-India and Dr. Dame Daphne Sheldrick from as far as Kenya along with

many more global and local organisations and people.

 

It should be noted that Ms. Belinda was invited to attend as a special guest

but she declined to attend the event as a mark of protest and wrote a strong

letter to the organisers.

 

The issue was the following events that were planned for the Kaziranga

Centenary Celebrations:

1. Elephant race.

2. Elephant Mock fight.

3. Elephant tug of war.

4. Elephant painting event (where an elephant would paint a canvas) and

5. Elephant football.

 

All the above circus like events as part of the 'Elephant Festival' were planned

by the State.

 

We managed to pull a victory and the events stayed cancelled, but without the

support of WTI or WWF.

 

WHY IS IT THAT WWF OR WTI BEING PRESENT IN FULL STRENGTH DID NOT EXTEND THEIR

VOICE/ SUPPORT TO CANCEL THE EVENTS????

 

I would like to know the stand of the above two organisations with regards to

the specific issue on 'animal rights'.

 

 

Azam

 

 

 

 

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:41 AM, <

journalistandanimals wrote:

 

>

>

> I am sorry Jigme, what is your particular issue with WWF? Is it the sole

> responsibility of WWF to save all animals whilst the other animal rights

> and

> welfare groups relax in sofas and hurl bricks at WWF? How does it help a

> tiger, or any animal under the sun, if a model strips naked and runs around

> in public? There is a recent article on animal rights groups promoting

> pornography which I could share with you. Do you ever ask these groups how

> they are saving tigers by implementing such policies? You mock the WWF

> acronym as Weekly Workshops Forever. How do you know how effective or

> ineffective these workshops are? I have participated in them and am in a

> position to tell you that the kind of information and exposure forest

> department personnel have got from the WWF workshops is unique and they

> themselves have said so.May I also ask you how much is Animal Nepal doing

> to

> save tigers and other animals in the wild ? Who does more to save animals

> in

> the wild internationally, Animal Nepal or WWF? You are sitting in Nepal and

> lecturing Indians on how to protect tigers and criticising WWF's role in

> the

> endeavour. May I ask you how are tigers and other wild animals faring in

> Nepal with or without the help of the World Bank and how much Animal Nepal

> is doing to aid conservation? WWF has been at the forefront of the dispute

> between India and Nepal regarding the elephant intrusion issue.What was

> Animal Nepal's role and was it more or less than WWF in mitigating the

> conflict? Please do not take these as sarcastic queries, for I am really

> interested to know how much the critics of WWF are doing for conservation

> themselves. Had it not been for WWF, Project Tiger would never have started

> in India and the world would never have woken up to the plight of tigers

> the

> way it did. It is certainly a matter of concern the way the project has

> progressed(or regressed if you like) but to imply that WWF's workshops have

> been ineffective along with everything else they have done, is a very

> biased

> way of looking at things. Do you really think that by just bashing WWF,

> tigers and other animals will attain salvation? If so, please elaborate.

> WWF is a soft target, is it not? Visible, large and influential. And in

> India, the official partner of the NTCA, National Tiger Conservation

> Authority and works closely with the government to improve things on the

> ground. Has anybody at WWF ever denied that things are not perfect and more

> needs to done? Criticism is fine but has to be substantiated and

> constructive. If you have a problem with the way WWF is functioning, why

> don't you take it up with the WWF representatives in Nepal? If you think

> WWF

> is not functioning properly, why don't you do something better and show the

> world that it is possible to do conservation better than WWF(if that is the

> sole objective, ie., to one up WWF)? And it might be a good idea to compare

> WWF's global contribution to conservation to that of the other animal

> rights

> and animal welfare groups. And if it is at all possible, I would invite you

> to attend a WWF workshop in India and criticise it for if you think WWF

> workshops are ineffective(I suppose all the other animal conferences solve

> all the world's animal problems with a magic wand, yeah?) then I am sure

> the

> WWF team would like to know why and how things could be improved and

> alternative strategies considered.

> Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts on WWF.

> Regards,

>

>

>

>

> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Jigs Gaton

<herojig<herojig%40gmail.com>>

> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > U just gotta love a country that can stand up and say NO to large

> > bilaterals

> > and INGOs. But outside of workshops and conferences, is India really

> doing

> > a good job of saving tigers? Are there really only a few thousand left?

> Are

> > tigers really bound by national borders and left up to the whim of those

> > few

> > in power: megalomaniacs that launch nuclear submarines and who are

> > responsible for irreversible and unthinkable pollutions of natural

> > resources? Are agencies such as the UN and WB so powerless they can¹t

> just

> > go in, set up camp, and get the job done - instead of being delegated the

> > hostesses role of Weekly Workshops Forever (WWF)? This has to be the

> height

> > of insanity for the human vision of animal conservation. Meanwhile,

> normal

> > folks like you and I just sit on thumbs and watch tigers denigrate during

> > this lifetime to nothing more then a late night NatGeo re-run.

> > Jigs in Nepal

> >

> > On 7/26/09 11:53 PM, " AZAM SIDDIQUI "

<azam24x7<azam24x7%40gmail.com>

> <azam24x7%40gmail.com>>

> > wrote:

> >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> http://ptinews.com/news/195624_India-say-no-to-WB-fund-for-tiger-conservation

> > >

> > > India say no to WB fund for tiger conservation

> > > STAFF WRITER 20:16 HRS IST

> > >

> > > Archana Jyoti

> > >

> > > Sariska, July 26 (PTI)

> > >

> > > India, which is home to 70 per cent of the world's tiger population,

> does

> > not

> > > need any fund, aid or expertise from the World Bank for conservation of

> > big

> > > cats in the country, Union Minister of Environment Jairam Ramesh has

> > said.

> > >

> > > Ramesh said the country is self-sufficient to do the job with any

> outside

> > help

> > > but added that the government was open to the idea of the bank funding

> > for

> > > workshops and conferences aimed to boost conservation and protection of

> > tigers

> > > whose population has dwindled to 1,400 in the latest head count.

> > >

> > > " We do not need any money from the World Bank for the conservation of

> > tigers

> > > in the country.

> > >

> > > " Who else but we being the holder of 70 per cent of the world's tiger

> > > population could know the problems better.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >>

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I am not one to bash any large organization (am I?) like the WWF, but I¹ve

told this story many times before, about when I did some consulting for

them, and how I was shocked that they had very little public information

about Nepal¹s animals in their brochures and mission statements. But they

had a whole lotta stuff on climate change. I was told by the director that

the focus had shifted, as if you don¹t have a climate, you won¹t have any

animals anyway. I was struck at the time on how callous and stupid that

strategy seemed, when you consider just how effective the WWF can really be

in changing the climate in the first place. In the meantime, evidence of

elephant polo was in the newspaper and Chitwan habitats were being overrun

by tourists and communists alike, both plundering what wanted from this

³protected² area. And the WWF had no opinion in this regard.

 

As a past facilitator for WWF and many other org workshops all over SA (the

quote ³Weekly Workshops Forever,² came from one of my students), I can tell

you that they are good things. That was not my point. My point is that the

Indian Government has insulted those trying to help it by refusing funds for

things other then workshops or conferences. (I wish you had read my post

carefully, instead of reading and then just insulting me).

 

On Animal Nepal, that mission is different. They focus on domestic animals

period. What do you think they should do? Please write them with any

suggestions, and then donate, as they get no money elsewhere.

 

Cheers,

Jigs in Nepal

 

 

 

 

 

On 7/27/09 10:56 AM, " "

wrote:

 

>

>

>

>

> I am sorry Jigme, what is your particular issue with WWF? Is it the sole

> responsibility of WWF to save all animals whilst the other animal rights and

> welfare groups relax in sofas and hurl bricks at WWF? How does it help a

> tiger, or any animal under the sun, if a model strips naked and runs around

> in public? There is a recent article on animal rights groups promoting

> pornography which I could share with you. Do you ever ask these groups how

> they are saving tigers by implementing such policies? You mock the WWF

> acronym as Weekly Workshops Forever. How do you know how effective or

> ineffective these workshops are? I have participated in them and am in a

> position to tell you that the kind of information and exposure forest

> department personnel have got from the WWF workshops is unique and they

> themselves have said so.May I also ask you how much is Animal Nepal doing to

> save tigers and other animals in the wild ? Who does more to save animals in

> the wild internationally, Animal Nepal or WWF? You are sitting in Nepal and

> lecturing Indians on how to protect tigers and criticising WWF's role in the

> endeavour. May I ask you how are tigers and other wild animals faring in

> Nepal with or without the help of the World Bank and how much Animal Nepal

> is doing to aid conservation? WWF has been at the forefront of the dispute

> between India and Nepal regarding the elephant intrusion issue.What was

> Animal Nepal's role and was it more or less than WWF in mitigating the

> conflict? Please do not take these as sarcastic queries, for I am really

> interested to know how much the critics of WWF are doing for conservation

> themselves. Had it not been for WWF, Project Tiger would never have started

> in India and the world would never have woken up to the plight of tigers the

> way it did. It is certainly a matter of concern the way the project has

> progressed(or regressed if you like) but to imply that WWF's workshops have

> been ineffective along with everything else they have done, is a very biased

> way of looking at things. Do you really think that by just bashing WWF,

> tigers and other animals will attain salvation? If so, please elaborate.

> WWF is a soft target, is it not? Visible, large and influential. And in

> India, the official partner of the NTCA, National Tiger Conservation

> Authority and works closely with the government to improve things on the

> ground. Has anybody at WWF ever denied that things are not perfect and more

> needs to done? Criticism is fine but has to be substantiated and

> constructive. If you have a problem with the way WWF is functioning, why

> don't you take it up with the WWF representatives in Nepal? If you think WWF

> is not functioning properly, why don't you do something better and show the

> world that it is possible to do conservation better than WWF(if that is the

> sole objective, ie., to one up WWF)? And it might be a good idea to compare

> WWF's global contribution to conservation to that of the other animal rights

> and animal welfare groups. And if it is at all possible, I would invite you

> to attend a WWF workshop in India and criticise it for if you think WWF

> workshops are ineffective(I suppose all the other animal conferences solve

> all the world's animal problems with a magic wand, yeah?) then I am sure the

> WWF team would like to know why and how things could be improved and

> alternative strategies considered.

> Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts on WWF.

> Regards,

>

>

>

> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Jigs Gaton <herojig

> <herojig%40gmail.com> > wrote:

>

>> >

>> >

>> > U just gotta love a country that can stand up and say NO to large

>> > bilaterals

>> > and INGOs. But outside of workshops and conferences, is India really doing

>> > a good job of saving tigers? Are there really only a few thousand left? Are

>> > tigers really bound by national borders and left up to the whim of those

>> > few

>> > in power: megalomaniacs that launch nuclear submarines and who are

>> > responsible for irreversible and unthinkable pollutions of natural

>> > resources? Are agencies such as the UN and WB so powerless they can¹t just

>> > go in, set up camp, and get the job done - instead of being delegated the

>> > hostesses role of Weekly Workshops Forever (WWF)? This has to be the height

>> > of insanity for the human vision of animal conservation. Meanwhile, normal

>> > folks like you and I just sit on thumbs and watch tigers denigrate during

>> > this lifetime to nothing more then a late night NatGeo re-run.

>> > Jigs in Nepal

>> >

>> > On 7/26/09 11:53 PM, " AZAM SIDDIQUI " <azam24x7

>> <azam24x7%40gmail.com> <azam24x7%40gmail.com>>

>> > wrote:

>> >

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >

>> >

>> http://ptinews.com/news/195624_India-say-no-to-WB-fund-for-tiger-conservation

>>> > >

>>> > > India say no to WB fund for tiger conservation

>>> > > STAFF WRITER 20:16 HRS IST

>>> > >

>>> > > Archana Jyoti

>>> > >

>>> > > Sariska, July 26 (PTI)

>>> > >

>>> > > India, which is home to 70 per cent of the world's tiger population, >>>

does

>> > not

>>> > > need any fund, aid or expertise from the World Bank for conservation of

>> > big

>>> > > cats in the country, Union Minister of Environment Jairam Ramesh has

>> > said.

>>> > >

>>> > > Ramesh said the country is self-sufficient to do the job with any

>>> outside

>> > help

>>> > > but added that the government was open to the idea of the bank funding

>> > for

>>> > > workshops and conferences aimed to boost conservation and protection of

>> > tigers

>>> > > whose population has dwindled to 1,400 in the latest head count.

>>> > >

>>> > > " We do not need any money from the World Bank for the conservation of

>> > tigers

>>> > > in the country.

>>> > >

>>> > > " Who else but we being the holder of 70 per cent of the world's tiger

>>> > > population could know the problems better.

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>>> > >>

>> >

>> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Shubo,

 

I am starting off this letter with a smile because it has been a long time

since I have written on this forum and have lost touch with all of you.

 

Just a wild guess after reading your email below - Are you currently

associated with WWF?

 

To everyone,

 

Jingoism towards the organization one is associated with may take the person

far in that organization but not sure about the cause. And when the person

shifts to the next organization....would the jingoism shift to the new

organization or would the person continue working undetterd towards the cause?

 

So instead of getting down to comparing if a naked person demonstrating on

the street made far more or less impact compared to a week end workshop,

lets get to accepting constructive criticism and do something about it rather

than vehmently defend one's org by firing counter criticism.

 

As a lay man, seeing the images of a protest as mentioned above can bring an

occurrence to notice having the viewer even stand up for that cause and a

well organized workshop can nurture a wildlifer's knowledge bank.

 

Thanks, Pablo.

 

 

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Jigs Gaton <herojig wrote:

 

>

>

> I am not one to bash any large organization (am I?) like the WWF, but I¹ve

> told this story many times before, about when I did some consulting for

> them, and how I was shocked that they had very little public information

> about Nepal¹s animals in their brochures and mission statements. But they

> had a whole lotta stuff on climate change. I was told by the director that

> the focus had shifted, as if you don¹t have a climate, you won¹t have any

> animals anyway. I was struck at the time on how callous and stupid that

> strategy seemed, when you consider just how effective the WWF can really be

> in changing the climate in the first place. In the meantime, evidence of

> elephant polo was in the newspaper and Chitwan habitats were being overrun

> by tourists and communists alike, both plundering what wanted from this

> ³protected² area. And the WWF had no opinion in this regard.

>

> As a past facilitator for WWF and many other org workshops all over SA (the

> quote ³Weekly Workshops Forever,² came from one of my students), I can tell

> you that they are good things. That was not my point. My point is that the

> Indian Government has insulted those trying to help it by refusing funds

> for

> things other then workshops or conferences. (I wish you had read my post

> carefully, instead of reading and then just insulting me).

>

> On Animal Nepal, that mission is different. They focus on domestic animals

> period. What do you think they should do? Please write them with any

> suggestions, and then donate, as they get no money elsewhere.

>

> Cheers,

> Jigs in Nepal

>

> On 7/27/09 10:56 AM, " "

<journalistandanimals<journalistandanimals%40gmail.com>

> >

> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I am sorry Jigme, what is your particular issue with WWF? Is it the

> sole

> > responsibility of WWF to save all animals whilst the other animal rights

> and

> > welfare groups relax in sofas and hurl bricks at WWF? How does it help a

> > tiger, or any animal under the sun, if a model strips naked and runs

> around

> > in public? There is a recent article on animal rights groups promoting

> > pornography which I could share with you. Do you ever ask these groups

> how

> > they are saving tigers by implementing such policies? You mock the WWF

> > acronym as Weekly Workshops Forever. How do you know how effective or

> > ineffective these workshops are? I have participated in them and am in a

> > position to tell you that the kind of information and exposure forest

> > department personnel have got from the WWF workshops is unique and they

> > themselves have said so.May I also ask you how much is Animal Nepal doing

> to

> > save tigers and other animals in the wild ? Who does more to save animals

> in

> > the wild internationally, Animal Nepal or WWF? You are sitting in Nepal

> and

> > lecturing Indians on how to protect tigers and criticising WWF's role in

> the

> > endeavour. May I ask you how are tigers and other wild animals faring in

> > Nepal with or without the help of the World Bank and how much Animal

> Nepal

> > is doing to aid conservation? WWF has been at the forefront of the

> dispute

> > between India and Nepal regarding the elephant intrusion issue.What was

> > Animal Nepal's role and was it more or less than WWF in mitigating the

> > conflict? Please do not take these as sarcastic queries, for I am really

> > interested to know how much the critics of WWF are doing for conservation

> > themselves. Had it not been for WWF, Project Tiger would never have

> started

> > in India and the world would never have woken up to the plight of tigers

> the

> > way it did. It is certainly a matter of concern the way the project has

> > progressed(or regressed if you like) but to imply that WWF's workshops

> have

> > been ineffective along with everything else they have done, is a very

> biased

> > way of looking at things. Do you really think that by just bashing WWF,

> > tigers and other animals will attain salvation? If so, please elaborate.

> > WWF is a soft target, is it not? Visible, large and influential. And in

> > India, the official partner of the NTCA, National Tiger Conservation

> > Authority and works closely with the government to improve things on the

> > ground. Has anybody at WWF ever denied that things are not perfect and

> more

> > needs to done? Criticism is fine but has to be substantiated and

> > constructive. If you have a problem with the way WWF is functioning, why

> > don't you take it up with the WWF representatives in Nepal? If you think

> WWF

> > is not functioning properly, why don't you do something better and show

> the

> > world that it is possible to do conservation better than WWF(if that is

> the

> > sole objective, ie., to one up WWF)? And it might be a good idea to

> compare

> > WWF's global contribution to conservation to that of the other animal

> rights

> > and animal welfare groups. And if it is at all possible, I would invite

> you

> > to attend a WWF workshop in India and criticise it for if you think WWF

> > workshops are ineffective(I suppose all the other animal conferences

> solve

> > all the world's animal problems with a magic wand, yeah?) then I am sure

> the

> > WWF team would like to know why and how things could be improved and

> > alternative strategies considered.

> > Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts on WWF.

> > Regards,

> >

> >

> >

> > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Jigs Gaton

<herojig<herojig%40gmail.com>

> > <herojig%40gmail.com <herojig%2540gmail.com>> > wrote:

> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > U just gotta love a country that can stand up and say NO to large

> >> > bilaterals

> >> > and INGOs. But outside of workshops and conferences, is India really

> doing

> >> > a good job of saving tigers? Are there really only a few thousand

> left? Are

> >> > tigers really bound by national borders and left up to the whim of

> those

> >> > few

> >> > in power: megalomaniacs that launch nuclear submarines and who are

> >> > responsible for irreversible and unthinkable pollutions of natural

> >> > resources? Are agencies such as the UN and WB so powerless they can¹t

> just

> >> > go in, set up camp, and get the job done - instead of being delegated

> the

> >> > hostesses role of Weekly Workshops Forever (WWF)? This has to be the

> height

> >> > of insanity for the human vision of animal conservation. Meanwhile,

> normal

> >> > folks like you and I just sit on thumbs and watch tigers denigrate

> during

> >> > this lifetime to nothing more then a late night NatGeo re-run.

> >> > Jigs in Nepal

> >> >

> >> > On 7/26/09 11:53 PM, " AZAM SIDDIQUI "

<azam24x7<azam24x7%40gmail.com>

> >> <azam24x7%40gmail.com <azam24x7%2540gmail.com>> <azam24x7%

> 40gmail.com>>

>

> >> > wrote:

> >> >

> >>> > >

> >>> > >

> >>> > >

> >>> > >

> >>> > >

> >> >

> >>

> http://ptinews.com/news/195624_India-say-no-to-WB-fund-for-tiger-conservation

> >>> > >

> >>> > > India say no to WB fund for tiger conservation

> >>> > > STAFF WRITER 20:16 HRS IST

> >>> > >

> >>> > > Archana Jyoti

> >>> > >

> >>> > > Sariska, July 26 (PTI)

> >>> > >

> >>> > > India, which is home to 70 per cent of the world's tiger

> population, >>>

> does

> >> > not

> >>> > > need any fund, aid or expertise from the World Bank for

> conservation of

> >> > big

> >>> > > cats in the country, Union Minister of Environment Jairam Ramesh

> has

> >> > said.

> >>> > >

> >>> > > Ramesh said the country is self-sufficient to do the job with any

> >>> outside

> >> > help

> >>> > > but added that the government was open to the idea of the bank

> funding

> >> > for

> >>> > > workshops and conferences aimed to boost conservation and

> protection of

> >> > tigers

> >>> > > whose population has dwindled to 1,400 in the latest head count.

> >>> > >

> >>> > > " We do not need any money from the World Bank for the conservation

> of

> >> > tigers

> >>> > > in the country.

> >>> > >

> >>> > > " Who else but we being the holder of 70 per cent of the world's

> tiger

> >>> > > population could know the problems better.

> >>> > >

>

[Guest guest]

>So instead of getting down to comparing if a naked person

>demonstrating on the street made far more or less impact compared to

>a week end workshop,

 

 

The tactical conflicts between going naked and holding weekly

workshops forever could relatively easily be reconciled by holding

weekly workshops in the nude.

 

The philosophical conflicts between " sustainable use " and

" animals are not ours to eat, wear, or experiment on " are

irreconcilable, no matter how one dresses up or undresses the issue.

 

As to funny names, earning one is a mark of having at least

achieved a certain level of prominence.

 

 

--Merritt the Parrot, editor, ANAL PEOPLE.

--

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

 

Haven't been writing or reading much as the AAPN seems more and more like an

IAPN nowadays... Here some thoughts on the message of Jigs;

 

- U just gotta love a country that can stand up and say NO to large bilaterals

and INGOs.-

 

Who are you kidding? Isn't it in the first place the job of the Indian

government to protect the tigers and their habitat? Isn't it their job to

enforce the laws? So isn't it great that when governments fail to do their jobs

that there are people (private individuals and NGO's) that are willing to assist

and try to make a difference? What a load of crap to attack an INGO while the

government and others sit back. If any institution should be attacked it is the

Indian government that show such a poor performance on wildlife conservation.

 

-Are agencies such as the UN and WB so powerless they can’t just

go in, set up camp, and get the job done instead of being delegated the

hostesses role of Weekly Workshops Forever (WWF)? This has to be the height

of insanity for the human vision of animal conservation.-

 

Yes the UN and WB are indeed powerless as they have a limited influence due to

all kind of diplomatic protocol and other b.llsh.t....

 

I can't love or support an ignorent government, I might eventually if they can

do the job on their own, but I sincerely doubt it that they can.

 

 

Edwin Wiek

[Guest guest]

Dear all, please don¹t quote me out of context, as arguments from that will

always be nutty and loopy. @ Ediwn, I don¹t think in terms of government

responsibility when it comes to saving tigers, as in the case of India and

Nepal, as the government does not seem to take enough responsibility in

duties that are shoved off on them by unconcerned citizens. It seems to me

that the Indian government should take help from wherever it can find it in

the case of tigers, and it also seems that national pride is just getting in

the way of helping them. However, if India were being offered help to build

more dams that would drown more villagers and animals, then perhaps that¹s

another story. But governments should be smart enough to discriminate

between good and bad aid. It would be interesting to know why WB help was

so impolitely refused in this case...

Jigs in Nepal

 

On 7/28/09 5:36 AM, " Edwin Wiek " <edwin.wiek wrote:

 

> Here some thoughts on the message of Jigs;

>

> - U just gotta love a country that can stand up and say NO to large bilaterals

> and INGOs.-

>

> Who are you kidding? Isn't it in the first place the job of the Indian

> government to protect the tigers and their habitat?