Guest guest Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 Oh dear! o - " fraggle " <EBbrewpunx " vegan chat " ; " hef " <jdh_666 Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:16 PM even the NYT understands... Op-Ed Contributor A Nation of Christians Is Not a Christian Nation E-Mail Print Save Share Del.icio.us Digg Facebook Newsvine Permalink By JON MEACHAM Published: October 7, 2007 JOHN McCAIN was not on the campus of Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University last year for very long — the senator, who once referred to Mr. Falwell and Pat Robertson as “agents of intolerance,†was there to receive an honorary degree — but he seems to have picked up some theology along with his academic hood. In an interview with Beliefnet.com last weekend, Mr. McCain repeated what is an article of faith among many American evangelicals: “the Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation.†Skip to next paragraph Enlarge This Image Oliver Munday According to Scripture, however, believers are to be wary of all mortal powers. Their home is the kingdom of God, which transcends all earthly things, not any particular nation-state. The Psalmist advises believers to “put not your trust in princes.†The author of Job says that the Lord “shows no partiality to princes nor regards the rich above the poor, for they are all the work of his hands.†Before Pilate, Jesus says, “My kingdom is not of this world.†And if, as Paul writes in Galatians, “there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus,†then it is difficult to see how there could be a distinction in God’s eyes between, say, an American and an Australian. In fact, there is no distinction if you believe Peter’s words in the Acts of the Apostles: “I most certainly believe now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears him and does what is right is welcome to him.†The kingdom Jesus preached was radical. Not only are nations irrelevant, but families are, too: he instructs those who would be his disciples to give up all they have and all those they know to follow him. The only acknowledgment of God in the original Constitution is a utilitarian one: the document is dated “in the year of our Lord 1787.†Even the religion clause of the First Amendment is framed dryly and without reference to any particular faith. The Connecticut ratifying convention debated rewriting the preamble to take note of God’s authority, but the effort failed. A pseudonymous opponent of the Connecticut proposal had some fun with the notion of a deity who would, in a sense, be checking the index for his name: “A low mind may imagine that God, like a foolish old man, will think himself slighted and dishonored if he is not complimented with a seat or a prologue of recognition in the Constitution.†Instead, the framers, the opponent wrote in The American Mercury, “come to us in the plain language of common sense and propose to our understanding a system of government as the invention of mere human wisdom; no deity comes down to dictate it, not a God appears in a dream to propose any part of it.†While many states maintained established churches and religious tests for office — Massachusetts was the last to disestablish, in 1833 — the federal framers, in their refusal to link civil rights to religious observance or adherence, helped create a culture of religious liberty that ultimately carried the day. Thomas Jefferson said that his bill for religious liberty in Virginia was “meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mahometan, the Hindu, and infidel of every denomination.†When George Washington was inaugurated in New York in April 1789, Gershom Seixas, the hazan of Shearith Israel, was listed among the city’s clergymen (there were 14 in New York at the time) — a sign of acceptance and respect. The next year, Washington wrote the Hebrew Congregation of Newport, R.I., saying, “happily the government of the United States ... gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance. ... Everyone shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree, and there shall be none to make him afraid.†Andrew Jackson resisted bids in the 1820s to form a “Christian party in politics.†Abraham Lincoln buried a proposed “Christian amendment†to the Constitution to declare the nation’s fealty to Jesus. Theodore Roosevelt defended William Howard Taft, a Unitarian, from religious attacks by supporters of William Jennings Bryan. The founders were not anti-religion. Many of them were faithful in their personal lives, and in their public language they evoked God. They grounded the founding principle of the nation — that all men are created equal — in the divine. But they wanted faith to be one thread in the country’s tapestry, not the whole tapestry. In the 1790s, in the waters off Tripoli, pirates were making sport of American shipping near the Barbary Coast. Toward the end of his second term, Washington sent Joel Barlow, the diplomat-poet, to Tripoli to settle matters, and the resulting treaty, finished after Washington left office, bought a few years of peace. Article 11 of this long-ago document says that “as the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,†there should be no cause for conflict over differences of “religious opinion†between countries. The treaty passed the Senate unanimously. Mr. McCain is not the only American who would find it useful reading. Jon Meacham, the editor of Newsweek, is the author of “American Gospel†and “Franklin and Winston.†What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know, it's what we know for sure that just ain't so. - Mark Twain To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 actually..i never meant to send that to this group sorry about that jo Oct 10, 2007 9:24 AM Re: even the NYT understands... Oh dear!o-"fraggle" <EBbrewpunx (AT) earthlink (DOT) net>"vegan chat" ; "hef" <jdh_666 (AT) comcast (DOT) net>Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:16 PM even the NYT understands...Op-Ed ContributorA Nation of Christians Is Not a Christian NationE-MailPrintSaveShareDel.icio.usDiggFacebookNewsvinePermalinkBy JON MEACHAMPublished: October 7, 2007JOHN McCAIN was not on the campus of Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University lastyear for very long — the senator, who once referred to Mr. Falwell and PatRobertson as “agents of intolerance,†was there to receive an honorarydegree — but he seems to have picked up some theology along with hisacademic hood. In an interview with Beliefnet.com last weekend, Mr. McCainrepeated what is an article of faith among many American evangelicals: “theConstitution established the United States of America as a Christiannation.â€Skip to next paragraphEnlarge This ImageOliver MundayAccording to Scripture, however, believers are to be wary of all mortalpowers. Their home is the kingdom of God, which transcends all earthlythings, not any particular nation-state. The Psalmist advises believers to“put not your trust in princes.†The author of Job says that the Lord “showsno partiality to princes nor regards the rich above the poor, for they areall the work of his hands.†Before Pilate, Jesus says, “My kingdom is not ofthis world.†And if, as Paul writes in Galatians, “there is neither Jew norGreek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male norfemale: for you are all one in Christ Jesus,†then it is difficult to seehow there could be a distinction in God’s eyes between, say, an American andan Australian. In fact, there is no distinction if you believe Peter’s wordsin the Acts of the Apostles: “I most certainly believe now that God is notone to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears him and doeswhat is right is welcome to him.â€The kingdom Jesus preached was radical. Not only are nations irrelevant, butfamilies are, too: he instructs those who would be his disciples to give upall they have and all those they know to follow him.The only acknowledgment of God in the original Constitution is a utilitarianone: the document is dated “in the year of our Lord 1787.†Even the religionclause of the First Amendment is framed dryly and without reference to anyparticular faith. The Connecticut ratifying convention debated rewriting thepreamble to take note of God’s authority, but the effort failed.A pseudonymous opponent of the Connecticut proposal had some fun with thenotion of a deity who would, in a sense, be checking the index for his name:“A low mind may imagine that God, like a foolish old man, will think himselfslighted and dishonored if he is not complimented with a seat or a prologueof recognition in the Constitution.†Instead, the framers, the opponentwrote in The American Mercury, “come to us in the plain language of commonsense and propose to our understanding a system of government as theinvention of mere human wisdom; no deity comes down to dictate it, not a Godappears in a dream to propose any part of it.â€While many states maintained established churches and religious tests foroffice — Massachusetts was the last to disestablish, in 1833 — the federalframers, in their refusal to link civil rights to religious observance oradherence, helped create a culture of religious liberty that ultimatelycarried the day.Thomas Jefferson said that his bill for religious liberty in Virginia was“meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and theGentile, the Christian and the Mahometan, the Hindu, and infidel of everydenomination.†When George Washington was inaugurated in New York in April1789, Gershom Seixas, the hazan of Shearith Israel, was listed among thecity’s clergymen (there were 14 in New York at the time) — a sign ofacceptance and respect. The next year, Washington wrote the HebrewCongregation of Newport, R.I., saying, “happily the government of the UnitedStates ... gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance. ...Everyone shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree, and thereshall be none to make him afraid.â€Andrew Jackson resisted bids in the 1820s to form a “Christian party inpolitics.†Abraham Lincoln buried a proposed “Christian amendment†to theConstitution to declare the nation’s fealty to Jesus. Theodore Rooseveltdefended William Howard Taft, a Unitarian, from religious attacks bysupporters of William Jennings Bryan.The founders were not anti-religion. Many of them were faithful in theirpersonal lives, and in their public language they evoked God. They groundedthe founding principle of the nation — that all men are created equal — inthe divine. But they wanted faith to be one thread in the country’stapestry, not the whole tapestry.In the 1790s, in the waters off Tripoli, pirates were making sport ofAmerican shipping near the Barbary Coast. Toward the end of his second term,Washington sent Joel Barlow, the diplomat-poet, to Tripoli to settlematters, and the resulting treaty, finished after Washington left office,bought a few years of peace. Article 11 of this long-ago document says that“as the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on theChristian religion,†there should be no cause for conflict over differencesof “religious opinion†between countries.The treaty passed the Senate unanimously. Mr. McCain is not the onlyAmerican who would find it useful reading.Jon Meacham, the editor of Newsweek, is the author of “American Gospel†and“Franklin and Winston.â€What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know, it's what we know forsure that just ain't so.- Mark TwainTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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