New Vegan _Due to Animal cuelty

[Guest guest]

I want to start at the beginning and hopefully not offend anyone... I

am 25 years old-not raised with television and have chosen a life for

myself where I worry about my kids and husband. I don't watch TV,

listen to the news and really the only outside influences I get are

those that I choose to seek out on the net. (even my home page is

blank)

 

Recently laying in bed one night my husband turned on this show,

something about PETA and turkeys. till now I hadn't heard of PETA.

 

I was heartbroken and sick when I saw what was happening to these

animals! I seriously didn't even sleep I was so outraged! And even

more so because of my own innocents to it all! I swore right then

and there I was going Vegan- no doubt in my mind. But I am running

into a few problems...

 

One - I want to share the word and believe the cruelty is wrong!!!

However I also believe animal consumption (not in this way) is

natural. I feel my children need it (in moderation) not to mention

this is a personal discussion as an animal lover-not a family

discussion. Also I don't not believe that dogs cats and natural

carnivores should be vegan. This sucks!! I do not want to contribute

to any cruelty and I realize you can not tell who is torturing behind

the scenes however (for now) I want to see that my dog, ferret, and

children are eating what is Natural for them to eat. Rather than

controversy over this id like some help finding the best possible

choices for the circumstances.

 

Two- I plan on making everything household vegan at some point but

was totally outraged when I started looking around at how almost

EVERYTHING is NOT vegan in my house!!! I want to take on the Vega

lifestyle and I really hope that my kids will make the same choices.

I can not afford to throw everything out and start from scratch and I

can justify it all by saying well they died for me that time I may as

well use it till it cant be used any longer...on the other hand I

feel like having all this around is a huge contradiction! What did

you guys do with the leather purses and shoes? silk coats etc? what

would you do if you were me?

 

last but not least, are most people just not educated as I was not?

or do people know and continue to consume? I feel sick inside,

outraged! and very very heartbroken that I didn't know this was going

on.

 

I am not worried about making the switch in the food world-that will

be easy, and is easy. Its the other stuff I am having a hard time

with. I would welcome any help and advice please!

 

oh one other thing...how do you tell about pharmaceuticals? my son is

a special medical needs and id like to reduce even the kids

consumptions to the minimal...

Like Jewelry? Like Art? Visit my site!

www.freewebs.com/angelicammo Hand Made Jewelry by me!

 

Consider AVON for the holidays!! You won't regret it!! Email me for

AVON details or products!

[Guest guest]

Hi

 

I think it best to use your current animal-derived articles until

they are worn out. There would seem to be no point in throwing them

into landfill when they are still usable. Those animals are already

dead, and to throw the articles away achieves nothing.

 

I think most people know about the conditions food animals are raised

in - and don't care. It is sad and unfortunate, but I think that is

the truth.

 

Jo

 

, " angelicammo " <ammo913 wrote:

>

> I want to start at the beginning and hopefully not offend anyone...

I

> am 25 years old-not raised with television and have chosen a life

for

> myself where I worry about my kids and husband. I don't watch TV,

> listen to the news and really the only outside influences I get are

> those that I choose to seek out on the net. (even my home page is

> blank)

>

> Recently laying in bed one night my husband turned on this show,

> something about PETA and turkeys. till now I hadn't heard of PETA.

>

> I was heartbroken and sick when I saw what was happening to these

> animals! I seriously didn't even sleep I was so outraged! And even

> more so because of my own innocents to it all! I swore right then

> and there I was going Vegan- no doubt in my mind. But I am running

> into a few problems...

>

> One - I want to share the word and believe the cruelty is wrong!!!

> However I also believe animal consumption (not in this way) is

> natural. I feel my children need it (in moderation) not to mention

> this is a personal discussion as an animal lover-not a family

> discussion. Also I don't not believe that dogs cats and natural

> carnivores should be vegan. This sucks!! I do not want to

contribute

> to any cruelty and I realize you can not tell who is torturing

behind

> the scenes however (for now) I want to see that my dog, ferret, and

> children are eating what is Natural for them to eat. Rather than

> controversy over this id like some help finding the best possible

> choices for the circumstances.

>

> Two- I plan on making everything household vegan at some point but

> was totally outraged when I started looking around at how almost

> EVERYTHING is NOT vegan in my house!!! I want to take on the Vega

> lifestyle and I really hope that my kids will make the same

choices.

> I can not afford to throw everything out and start from scratch and

I

> can justify it all by saying well they died for me that time I may

as

> well use it till it cant be used any longer...on the other hand I

> feel like having all this around is a huge contradiction! What did

> you guys do with the leather purses and shoes? silk coats etc? what

> would you do if you were me?

>

> last but not least, are most people just not educated as I was not?

> or do people know and continue to consume? I feel sick inside,

> outraged! and very very heartbroken that I didn't know this was

going

> on.

>

> I am not worried about making the switch in the food world-that

will

> be easy, and is easy. Its the other stuff I am having a hard time

> with. I would welcome any help and advice please!

>

> oh one other thing...how do you tell about pharmaceuticals? my son

is

> a special medical needs and id like to reduce even the kids

> consumptions to the minimal...

> Like Jewelry? Like Art? Visit my site!

> www.freewebs.com/angelicammo Hand Made Jewelry by me!

>

> Consider AVON for the holidays!! You won't regret it!! Email me for

> AVON details or products!

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Angelica

 

Welcome to the list, and to veganism!

 

> I was heartbroken and sick when I saw what was happening to these

> animals! I seriously didn't even sleep I was so outraged! And even

> more so because of my own innocents to it all! I swore right then

> and there I was going Vegan- no doubt in my mind. But I am running

> into a few problems...

 

I admire anyone who can make a switch to veganism " overnight " (or even

attempt to). Personally, I went through a process that took a little over a

year, gradually cutting out and replacing meat, fish, eggs, dairy, etc.

until I'd got to where I wanted to be!

 

> One - I want to share the word and believe the cruelty is wrong!!!

> However I also believe animal consumption (not in this way) is

> natural. I feel my children need it (in moderation) not to mention

> this is a personal discussion as an animal lover-not a family

> discussion.

 

There are arguments on both sides of whether or not animal consumption is

" natural " . Personally, I don't see it as being an issue - we don't live

" natural " lives in any way. It's not " natural " to live in houses built of

bricks and mortar, or to drive cars, or to work to earn money. What is

clear, is that humans can, and do, thrive on a vegan diet. Donald Watson,

the founder of the Vegan Society in the UK (and the inventor of the word

vegan) turned vegan in the early 1940s. He celebrated his 95th birthday

earlier this decade by climbing mount Everest - clearly a lack of animal

based products didn't do him any harm! A number of high profile sportsmen

and women have been vegan including Carl Lewis and Martina Navratilova -

again, they don't seem to have been hampered in any way by a vegan diet. And

on a personal note, I have a fried who is bringing up their 1 year old on a

vegan diet. When they went to the nutritionist a couple of months ago, they

were told that the professional nutritionist had never seen a healthier 1

year old, and that there was no need for them to go back!

 

So, the upshot of that is, whether natural or not, the human body can thrive

on a vegan diet, and scientific studies have shown that the health risks to

vegans are generally less than to meat eaters (for instance, meat-eating men

stand a 50% chance of having a heart attack before they are 50. Vegan men

stand just a 4% chance). On top of that, life expectancies are longer for

vegans than for meat eaters by 2 or 3 years, and the longest living

societies are those where meat and dairy consumption are unusual.

 

Of course, you need to be careful to make sure you get all the right

nutrients, but then the same is true on a meat based diet - the only

difference is that because society is geared toward a meat based diet

products are more readily available to meat eaters than to vegans.

 

> Also I don't not believe that dogs cats and natural

> carnivores should be vegan. This sucks!! I do not want to contribute

> to any cruelty and I realize you can not tell who is torturing behind

> the scenes however (for now) I want to see that my dog, ferret, and

> children are eating what is Natural for them to eat. Rather than

> controversy over this id like some help finding the best possible

> choices for the circumstances.

 

I know nothing about ferret diets, but I do know that the oldest living dog

has been fed a vegan diet since birth. There are plenty of vegan dog foods

on the market, so why not give it a go? And as with humans, it's not as

though dogs live a " natural " life in other regards, so why worry about

feeding them a " natural " diet? After all, a dog's " natural " diet is the food

that it kills for itself, not something that comes out of a can.

 

> Two- I plan on making everything household vegan at some point but

> was totally outraged when I started looking around at how almost

> EVERYTHING is NOT vegan in my house!!! I want to take on the Vega

> lifestyle and I really hope that my kids will make the same choices.

> I can not afford to throw everything out and start from scratch and I

> can justify it all by saying well they died for me that time I may as

> well use it till it cant be used any longer...on the other hand I

> feel like having all this around is a huge contradiction! What did

> you guys do with the leather purses and shoes? silk coats etc? what

> would you do if you were me?

 

This is one that causes a lot of controversy! Some vegans believe that you

can't really be a vegan until you've got rid of all non-vegan stuff.

Personally, I disagree. Ethically, I would much rather use up anything I

have already purchased which is useful. Using it does no more harm, but

throwing it out would be environmentally damaging. I've been vegan for

almost 10 years - I still have a suit which I bought before that time which

is 40% wool. Everything else has worn out, and has been replaced with vegan

stuff, but I'm not going to buy a new suit until a need one, which could be

another decade. I don't feel that this in any way makes my ethics wrong.

(And, bear in mind that " vegan " is just a word - what's really important is

the ethical standpoint, not the word that sums it up!)

 

> last but not least, are most people just not educated as I was not?

> or do people know and continue to consume? I feel sick inside,

> outraged! and very very heartbroken that I didn't know this was going

> on.

 

I think most people are either uneducated or like to block the information.

Realistically, we all know that animals are killed so we can eat them. Some

of the actual treatment of animals is not so well known...

 

> oh one other thing...how do you tell about pharmaceuticals? my son is

> a special medical needs and id like to reduce even the kids

> consumptions to the minimal...

 

Pharmaceuticals are almost invariably going to be tested on animals, and

with current laws as they are, there is absolutely no way around that. There

are some alternatives to some medicines which are less harmful to animals

and the environment than others, and for some conditions herbal remedies and

medicines can be just as effective - but that, of course, depends entirely

on what the special medical needs are!

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

beautiful! thanks for all your input!

Thanks,

Alicia Marie M. O.(AmMo)

Like Jewelry? Like Art?

Visit my site! A selection of Hand Made Jewelry by me!www.freewebs.com/angelicammo

 

Consider AVON for the holidays!! Email me For AVON info

 

 

From: metalscarabDate: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 11:18:52 +0000Re: New Vegan _Due to Animal cuelty

 

 

 

Hi AngelicaWelcome to the list, and to veganism!> I was heartbroken and sick when I saw what was happening to these> animals! I seriously didn't even sleep I was so outraged! And even> more so because of my own innocents to it all! I swore right then> and there I was going Vegan- no doubt in my mind. But I am running> into a few problems...I admire anyone who can make a switch to veganism "overnight" (or evenattempt to). Personally, I went through a process that took a little over ayear, gradually cutting out and replacing meat, fish, eggs, dairy, etc.until I'd got to where I wanted to be!> One - I want to share the word and believe the cruelty is wrong!!!> However I also believe animal consumption (not in this way) is> natural. I feel my children need it (in moderation) not to mention> this is a personal discussion as an animal lover-not a family> discussion.There are arguments on both sides of whether or not animal consumption is"natural". Personally, I don't see it as being an issue - we don't live"natural" lives in any way. It's not "natural" to live in houses built ofbricks and mortar, or to drive cars, or to work to earn money. What isclear, is that humans can, and do, thrive on a vegan diet. Donald Watson,the founder of the Vegan Society in the UK (and the inventor of the wordvegan) turned vegan in the early 1940s. He celebrated his 95th birthdayearlier this decade by climbing mount Everest - clearly a lack of animalbased products didn't do him any harm! A number of high profile sportsmenand women have been vegan including Carl Lewis and Martina Navratilova -again, they don't seem to have been hampered in any way by a vegan diet. Andon a personal note, I have a fried who is bringing up their 1 year old on avegan diet. When they went to the nutritionist a couple of months ago, theywere told that the professional nutritionist had never seen a healthier 1year old, and that there was no need for them to go back!So, the upshot of that is, whether natural or not, the human body can thriveon a vegan diet, and scientific studies have shown that the health risks tovegans are generally less than to meat eaters (for instance, meat-eating menstand a 50% chance of having a heart attack before they are 50. Vegan menstand just a 4% chance). On top of that, life expectancies are longer forvegans than for meat eaters by 2 or 3 years, and the longest livingsocieties are those where meat and dairy consumption are unusual.Of course, you need to be careful to make sure you get all the rightnutrients, but then the same is true on a meat based diet - the onlydifference is that because society is geared toward a meat based dietproducts are more readily available to meat eaters than to vegans.> Also I don't not believe that dogs cats and natural> carnivores should be vegan. This sucks!! I do not want to contribute> to any cruelty and I realize you can not tell who is torturing behind> the scenes however (for now) I want to see that my dog, ferret, and> children are eating what is Natural for them to eat. Rather than> controversy over this id like some help finding the best possible> choices for the circumstances.I know nothing about ferret diets, but I do know that the oldest living doghas been fed a vegan diet since birth. There are plenty of vegan dog foodson the market, so why not give it a go? And as with humans, it's not asthough dogs live a "natural" life in other regards, so why worry aboutfeeding them a "natural" diet? After all, a dog's "natural" diet is the foodthat it kills for itself, not something that comes out of a can.> Two- I plan on making everything household vegan at some point but> was totally outraged when I started looking around at how almost> EVERYTHING is NOT vegan in my house!!! I want to take on the Vega> lifestyle and I really hope that my kids will make the same choices.> I can not afford to throw everything out and start from scratch and I> can justify it all by saying well they died for me that time I may as> well use it till it cant be used any longer...on the other hand I> feel like having all this around is a huge contradiction! What did> you guys do with the leather purses and shoes? silk coats etc? what> would you do if you were me?This is one that causes a lot of controversy! Some vegans believe that youcan't really be a vegan until you've got rid of all non-vegan stuff.Personally, I disagree. Ethically, I would much rather use up anything Ihave already purchased which is useful. Using it does no more harm, butthrowing it out would be environmentally damaging. I've been vegan foralmost 10 years - I still have a suit which I bought before that time whichis 40% wool. Everything else has worn out, and has been replaced with veganstuff, but I'm not going to buy a new suit until a need one, which could beanother decade. I don't feel that this in any way makes my ethics wrong.(And, bear in mind that "vegan" is just a word - what's really important isthe ethical standpoint, not the word that sums it up!)> last but not least, are most people just not educated as I was not?> or do people know and continue to consume? I feel sick inside,> outraged! and very very heartbroken that I didn't know this was going> on.I think most people are either uneducated or like to block the information.Realistically, we all know that animals are killed so we can eat them. Someof the actual treatment of animals is not so well known...> oh one other thing...how do you tell about pharmaceuticals? my son is> a special medical needs and id like to reduce even the kids> consumptions to the minimal...Pharmaceuticals are almost invariably going to be tested on animals, andwith current laws as they are, there is absolutely no way around that. Thereare some alternatives to some medicines which are less harmful to animalsand the environment than others, and for some conditions herbal remedies andmedicines can be just as effective - but that, of course, depends entirelyon what the special medical needs are!BBPeter Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. Power up!

[Guest guest]

oh i would freecycle it if i couldnt sell it and sell it to be able to afford to replace it-but never throw it away! I love freecycle!

Thanks,

Alicia Marie M. O.(AmMo)

Like Jewelry? Like Art?

Visit my site! A selection of Hand Made Jewelry by me!www.freewebs.com/angelicammo

 

Consider AVON for the holidays!! Email me For AVON info

 

 

From: jo.heartworkDate: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 07:43:36 +0000 Re: New Vegan _Due to Animal cuelty

 

 

 

HiI think it best to use your current animal-derived articles until they are worn out. There would seem to be no point in throwing them into landfill when they are still usable. Those animals are already dead, and to throw the articles away achieves nothing.I think most people know about the conditions food animals are raised in - and don't care. It is sad and unfortunate, but I think that is the truth.Jo , "angelicammo" <ammo913 wrote:>> I want to start at the beginning and hopefully not offend anyone... I > am 25 years old-not raised with television and have chosen a life for > myself where I worry about my kids and husband. I don't watch TV, > listen to the news and really the only outside influences I get are > those that I choose to seek out on the net. (even my home page is > blank) > > Recently laying in bed one night my husband turned on this show, > something about PETA and turkeys. till now I hadn't heard of PETA.> > I was heartbroken and sick when I saw what was happening to these > animals! I seriously didn't even sleep I was so outraged! And even > more so because of my own innocents to it all! I swore right then > and there I was going Vegan- no doubt in my mind. But I am running > into a few problems...> > One - I want to share the word and believe the cruelty is wrong!!! > However I also believe animal consumption (not in this way) is > natural. I feel my children need it (in moderation) not to mention > this is a personal discussion as an animal lover-not a family > discussion. Also I don't not believe that dogs cats and natural > carnivores should be vegan. This sucks!! I do not want to contribute > to any cruelty and I realize you can not tell who is torturing behind > the scenes however (for now) I want to see that my dog, ferret, and > children are eating what is Natural for them to eat. Rather than > controversy over this id like some help finding the best possible > choices for the circumstances.> > Two- I plan on making everything household vegan at some point but > was totally outraged when I started looking around at how almost > EVERYTHING is NOT vegan in my house!!! I want to take on the Vega > lifestyle and I really hope that my kids will make the same choices. > I can not afford to throw everything out and start from scratch and I > can justify it all by saying well they died for me that time I may as > well use it till it cant be used any longer...on the other hand I > feel like having all this around is a huge contradiction! What did > you guys do with the leather purses and shoes? silk coats etc? what > would you do if you were me?> > last but not least, are most people just not educated as I was not? > or do people know and continue to consume? I feel sick inside, > outraged! and very very heartbroken that I didn't know this was going > on.> > I am not worried about making the switch in the food world-that will > be easy, and is easy. Its the other stuff I am having a hard time > with. I would welcome any help and advice please!> > oh one other thing...how do you tell about pharmaceuticals? my son is > a special medical needs and id like to reduce even the kids > consumptions to the minimal...> Like Jewelry? Like Art? Visit my site!> www.freewebs.com/angelicammo Hand Made Jewelry by me!> > Consider AVON for the holidays!! You won't regret it!! Email me for > AVON details or products!> Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. Power up!

[Guest guest]

Hi Angelica,

Welcome.

Everyones beliefs are different so dont worry about offending anyone. We are all individuals.

The way I look at animals and what they eat is:

1. wild dogs or cats hunt and eat animals. Domesticated animals eat what we give them, and as a vegan there are vegan foods available for them that contain all the nutrition that they need. My three cats are too damn lazy to hunt, and I`m damn sure not hunting for them!

2. most vegans when they turn vegan, use up their non vegan products or give them away if they can afford to replace them immediately - not everyone can.

 

Peter H

 

 

angelicammo <ammo913 Sent: Wednesday, 21 November, 2007 9:34:28 PM New Vegan _Due to Animal cuelty

 

I want to start at the beginning and hopefully not offend anyone... I am 25 years old-not raised with television and have chosen a life for myself where I worry about my kids and husband. I don't watch TV, listen to the news and really the only outside influences I get are those that I choose to seek out on the net. (even my home page is blank) Recently laying in bed one night my husband turned on this show, something about PETA and turkeys. till now I hadn't heard of PETA.I was heartbroken and sick when I saw what was happening to these animals! I seriously didn't even sleep I was so outraged! And even more so because of my own innocents to it all! I swore right then and there I was going Vegan- no doubt in my mind. But I am running into a few problems...One - I want to share the word and believe the cruelty is wrong!!! However I also believe animal consumption (not in this way) is

natural. I feel my children need it (in moderation) not to mention this is a personal discussion as an animal lover-not a family discussion. Also I don't not believe that dogs cats and natural carnivores should be vegan. This sucks!! I do not want to contribute to any cruelty and I realize you can not tell who is torturing behind the scenes however (for now) I want to see that my dog, ferret, and children are eating what is Natural for them to eat. Rather than controversy over this id like some help finding the best possible choices for the circumstances.Two- I plan on making everything household vegan at some point but was totally outraged when I started looking around at how almost EVERYTHING is NOT vegan in my house!!! I want to take on the Vega lifestyle and I really hope that my kids will make the same choices. I can not afford to throw everything out and start from scratch and I can

justify it all by saying well they died for me that time I may as well use it till it cant be used any longer...on the other hand I feel like having all this around is a huge contradiction! What did you guys do with the leather purses and shoes? silk coats etc? what would you do if you were me?last but not least, are most people just not educated as I was not? or do people know and continue to consume? I feel sick inside, outraged! and very very heartbroken that I didn't know this was going on.I am not worried about making the switch in the food world-that will be easy, and is easy. Its the other stuff I am having a hard time with. I would welcome any help and advice please!oh one other thing...how do you tell about pharmaceuticals? my son is a special medical needs and id like to reduce even the kids consumptions to the minimal...Like Jewelry? Like Art? Visit my

site!www.freewebs. com/angelicammo Hand Made Jewelry by me!Consider AVON for the holidays!! You won't regret it!! Email me for AVON details or products!

For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit For Good this month.