Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 If you remember a few years ago though, I, in my innocence, had never realised there was any hatred emanating from Wales. If there is any bad feeling on my part now, it is because you have told us that the Welsh dislike the English and you take every opportunity available to snipe. Jo , Peter VV <swpgh01 wrote: > > And to be fair vice versa...... > > Peter H > > > > > > metalscarab <metalscarab > > Monday, 4 February, 2008 9:38:25 AM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > >  > Hi Jo / Peter > > So, displaying a fairly standard Welsh attitude toward the English? > > BB > Peter > - > jo > @gro ups.com > Sunday, February 03, 2008 9:41 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > ....but look how many injuries they had to cause to the England team to win! > > Jo > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Sunday, February 03, 2008 8:20 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > The best team won in the end! > > Peter H > > > > > > jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com> > @gro ups.com > Saturday, 2 February, 2008 11:18:39 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > Watch it!! Twas a good match - Wales not too good in first half, England not too good in second. > > Jo > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Saturday, February 02, 2008 9:22 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > I agree. > Oh by the way, did I mention that Wales beat England at rugby today on English soil?....... ... > > Peter H > > > > > > metalscarab <metalscarab@ gmail.com> > @gro ups.com > Saturday, 2 February, 2008 9:18:44 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > Hi Peter > > I'd say it's rather lazy thinking. There is a certain validity in the suggestion that meat from local animals won't have any of the " travel miles " from exotic fruits. But, at the risk of a terrible pun, it's comparing apples and pears... if he wanted to be truly environmentally friendly with his diet, he would compare the impact of localy farmed meat with the impact of locally farmed veg! > > And, as Katy's just pointed out, the feed for the animals on his local farm almost certainly will have a large number of travel miles... so, woolly thinking on his part all round. > > BB > Peter > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Saturday, February 02, 2008 8:46 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > Dont know what to make of this : > Thanks to Bryan Welch (“Why I Farm,†February/March 2007) for his moving story of farm life. I have been mostly vegan for nearly three years, primarily to eat lower on the food chain and avoid the synthetic chemicals, hormones and antibiotics found in most animal products. I also choose this lifestyle in consideration of animals’ lives, our planet’s well-being and conservation of resources. > Recently, however, I’ve begun to re-evaluate my choices for a truly sustainable, healthy and environmentally sound diet. I’m realizing that being vegan in Montana isn’t nearly as sustainable as eating meat raised in a place like Bryan’s farm. My endive and fig salad with orange-balsamic vinaigrette, nothing of which comes from anywhere near Montana, strains the environment more than meat and potatoes from right down the road. > Within the past year I’ve reintroduced the occasional meal of wild game, hunted by some friends on land within miles of my home. I’ve accepted this meat back in my diet because I know how and where the animal lived, what it ate and how it was killed. > My friends hunt with reverence and respect for the life of the animal and aim to be “one shot wonders.†They took me hunting this fall. We didn’t kill an animal that day, but I am still committed to pursuing this experience. Although I await it with a sort of existential sadness. I fantasize of someday having a modest, self-sustaining farm with a fabulous garden, a few chickens and maybe some sheep or goats for meat, milk and fiber. That would be the last step in my evolution as an omnivore. I deeply appreciate the humility and depth of connection Bryan has with his farm and animals. His respect and reverence for their lives, and his honesty about confronting the life-death transition, are inspirational and affirming. I wish all meat-eaters could face the experience of killing the animals that sustain them with as much grace as Bryan †" the world would be better for it. > ROSE TOCKE > Helena, Montana > The Vegetarian Choice > http://www.motherea rthnews.com/ Modern-Homestead ing/2007- 04- 01/Dear- Mother-April- May-2007. aspx > > Peter H > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > ________ > Sent from Mail - a smarter inbox http://uk.mail. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 HI Peter / Peter I haven't come across any English people mentioning Welsh people, but I have had bad feeling from Peter, from a Welsh chap on another group that I own, and a chap I once met in a pub! Even then there was no counter-antagonism. Jo , " metalscarab " <metalscarab wrote: > > Hi Peter > > I dunno - I've not heard any English people have any antagonism toward the Welsh... except in retaliation! > > BB > Peter > - > Peter VV > > Monday, February 04, 2008 8:40 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > And to be fair vice versa...... > > Peter H > > > > > > metalscarab <metalscarab > > Monday, 4 February, 2008 9:38:25 AM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > > Hi Jo / Peter > > So, displaying a fairly standard Welsh attitude toward the English? > > BB > Peter > - > jo > @gro ups.com > Sunday, February 03, 2008 9:41 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > ....but look how many injuries they had to cause to the England team to win! > > Jo > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Sunday, February 03, 2008 8:20 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > The best team won in the end! > > Peter H > > > > > > jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com> > @gro ups.com > Saturday, 2 February, 2008 11:18:39 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > > Watch it!! Twas a good match - Wales not too good in first half, England not too good in second. > > Jo > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Saturday, February 02, 2008 9:22 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > I agree. > Oh by the way, did I mention that Wales beat England at rugby today on English soil?....... ... > > Peter H > > > > > > metalscarab <metalscarab@ gmail.com> > @gro ups.com > Saturday, 2 February, 2008 9:18:44 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > > Hi Peter > > I'd say it's rather lazy thinking. There is a certain validity in the suggestion that meat from local animals won't have any of the " travel miles " from exotic fruits. But, at the risk of a terrible pun, it's comparing apples and pears... if he wanted to be truly environmentally friendly with his diet, he would compare the impact of localy farmed meat with the impact of locally farmed veg! > > And, as Katy's just pointed out, the feed for the animals on his local farm almost certainly will have a large number of travel miles... so, woolly thinking on his part all round. > > BB > Peter > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Saturday, February 02, 2008 8:46 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > Dont know what to make of this : > Thanks to Bryan Welch (“Why I Farm,†February/March 2007) for his moving story of farm life. I have been mostly vegan for nearly three years, primarily to eat lower on the food chain and avoid the synthetic chemicals, hormones and antibiotics found in most animal products. I also choose this lifestyle in consideration of animals’ lives, our planet’s well-being and conservation of resources. > > Recently, however, I’ve begun to re-evaluate my choices for a truly sustainable, healthy and environmentally sound diet. I’m realizing that being vegan in Montana isn’t nearly as sustainable as eating meat raised in a place like Bryan’s farm. My endive and fig salad with orange-balsamic vinaigrette, nothing of which comes from anywhere near Montana, strains the environment more than meat and potatoes from right down the road. > > Within the past year I’ve reintroduced the occasional meal of wild game, hunted by some friends on land within miles of my home. I’ve accepted this meat back in my diet because I know how and where the animal lived, what it ate and how it was killed. > > My friends hunt with reverence and respect for the life of the animal and aim to be “one shot wonders.†They took me hunting this fall. We didn’t kill an animal that day, but I am still committed to pursuing this experience. Although I await it with a sort of existential sadness. I fantasize of someday having a modest, self-sustaining farm with a fabulous garden, a few chickens and maybe some sheep or goats for meat, milk and fiber. That would be the last step in my evolution as an omnivore. I deeply appreciate the humility and depth of connection Bryan has with his farm and animals. His respect and reverence for their lives, and his honesty about confronting the life-death transition, are inspirational and affirming. I wish all meat-eaters could face the experience of killing the animals that sustain them with as much grace as Bryan †" the world would be better for it. > > ROSE TOCKE > Helena, Montana > The Vegetarian Choice > http://www.motherea rthnews.com/ Modern-Homestead ing/2007- 04-01/Dear- Mother-April- May-2007. aspx > > > Peter H > > > > -- -- > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > > -- ---- > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > > -- ------ > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > > -- ---------- > Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with for Good > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Also, once when discussing ruby and Welsh hatred of the English you said that the television never supported the Welsh team. Well thanks to you and that discussion I have since become a rugby fan, and watch it whenever it is on the television. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that the 'English' television thoroughly supports Wales, Ireland and Scotland exactly the same as it does England. The same happens in all other sports too - Andy Murray is an example. I think it's about time you stopped holding old grudges about things that happened centuries ago, and not to you personally. Jo , Peter VV <swpgh01 wrote: > > Somehow I find that hard to believe, unfotunately. > > Peter H > > > > > > metalscarab <metalscarab > > Monday, 4 February, 2008 9:04:13 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > >  > Hi Peter > > I dunno - I've not heard any English people have any antagonism toward the Welsh... except in retaliation! > > BB > Peter > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Monday, February 04, 2008 8:40 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > And to be fair vice versa...... > > Peter H > > > > > > metalscarab <metalscarab@ gmail.com> > @gro ups.com > Monday, 4 February, 2008 9:38:25 AM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > Hi Jo / Peter > > So, displaying a fairly standard Welsh attitude toward the English? > > BB > Peter > - > jo > @gro ups.com > Sunday, February 03, 2008 9:41 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > ....but look how many injuries they had to cause to the England team to win! > > Jo > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Sunday, February 03, 2008 8:20 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > The best team won in the end! > > Peter H > > > > > > jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com> > @gro ups.com > Saturday, 2 February, 2008 11:18:39 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > Watch it!! Twas a good match - Wales not too good in first half, England not too good in second. > > Jo > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Saturday, February 02, 2008 9:22 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > I agree. > Oh by the way, did I mention that Wales beat England at rugby today on English soil?....... ... > > Peter H > > > > > > metalscarab <metalscarab@ gmail.com> > @gro ups.com > Saturday, 2 February, 2008 9:18:44 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > Hi Peter > > I'd say it's rather lazy thinking. There is a certain validity in the suggestion that meat from local animals won't have any of the " travel miles " from exotic fruits. But, at the risk of a terrible pun, it's comparing apples and pears... if he wanted to be truly environmentally friendly with his diet, he would compare the impact of localy farmed meat with the impact of locally farmed veg! > > And, as Katy's just pointed out, the feed for the animals on his local farm almost certainly will have a large number of travel miles... so, woolly thinking on his part all round. > > BB > Peter > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Saturday, February 02, 2008 8:46 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > Dont know what to make of this : > Thanks to Bryan Welch (“Why I Farm,†February/March 2007) for his moving story of farm life. I have been mostly vegan for nearly three years, primarily to eat lower on the food chain and avoid the synthetic chemicals, hormones and antibiotics found in most animal products. I also choose this lifestyle in consideration of animals’ lives, our planet’s well-being and conservation of resources. > Recently, however, I’ve begun to re-evaluate my choices for a truly sustainable, healthy and environmentally sound diet. I’m realizing that being vegan in Montana isn’t nearly as sustainable as eating meat raised in a place like Bryan’s farm. My endive and fig salad with orange-balsamic vinaigrette, nothing of which comes from anywhere near Montana, strains the environment more than meat and potatoes from right down the road. > Within the past year I’ve reintroduced the occasional meal of wild game, hunted by some friends on land within miles of my home. I’ve accepted this meat back in my diet because I know how and where the animal lived, what it ate and how it was killed. > My friends hunt with reverence and respect for the life of the animal and aim to be “one shot wonders.†They took me hunting this fall. We didn’t kill an animal that day, but I am still committed to pursuing this experience. Although I await it with a sort of existential sadness. I fantasize of someday having a modest, self-sustaining farm with a fabulous garden, a few chickens and maybe some sheep or goats for meat, milk and fiber. That would be the last step in my evolution as an omnivore. I deeply appreciate the humility and depth of connection Bryan has with his farm and animals. His respect and reverence for their lives, and his honesty about confronting the life-death transition, are inspirational and affirming. I wish all meat-eaters could face the experience of killing the animals that sustain them with as much grace as Bryan †" the world would be better for it. > ROSE TOCKE > Helena, Montana > The Vegetarian Choice > http://www.motherea rthnews.com/ Modern-Homestead ing/2007- 04- 01/Dear- Mother-April- May-2007. aspx > > Peter H > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > > > Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with for Good > > > > ________ > Sent from Mail - a smarter inbox http://uk.mail. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Hi Peter I think it is fairly widespread in England, although it is not something I remember from earlier in my life. Maybe it is something that has been cultivated over the last decade - and yes, I get EXTREMELY CHEESED OFF with it too. If it was against any other section of society it would be illegal. BB Jo , " metalscarab " <metalscarab wrote: > > Hi Peter > > I dunno - perhaps I just get a bit cheesed off with the constant racism I get from a number of Welsh people. Perhaps it's a problem of living near the border, but it does seem as though there are a large number of Welsh folks around here (and on e-mail lists) who have a real chip on their shoulder when it comes to the English. I've yet to come across anyone English with the same issues.... well, unless of course you take into consideration the fact that over 90% of the " Welsh " (and, ironically, the most fervent anti-English in my experience) come from English families who have moved to Wales in the past 100 years!!!! > > BB > Peter > - > Peter VV > > Monday, February 04, 2008 9:17 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > Somehow I find that hard to believe, unfotunately. > > Peter H > > > > > > metalscarab <metalscarab > > Monday, 4 February, 2008 9:04:13 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > > Hi Peter > > I dunno - I've not heard any English people have any antagonism toward the Welsh... except in retaliation! > > BB > Peter > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Monday, February 04, 2008 8:40 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > And to be fair vice versa...... > > Peter H > > > > > > metalscarab <metalscarab@ gmail.com> > @gro ups.com > Monday, 4 February, 2008 9:38:25 AM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > > Hi Jo / Peter > > So, displaying a fairly standard Welsh attitude toward the English? > > BB > Peter > - > jo > @gro ups.com > Sunday, February 03, 2008 9:41 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > ....but look how many injuries they had to cause to the England team to win! > > Jo > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Sunday, February 03, 2008 8:20 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > The best team won in the end! > > Peter H > > > > > > jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com> > @gro ups.com > Saturday, 2 February, 2008 11:18:39 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > > Watch it!! Twas a good match - Wales not too good in first half, England not too good in second. > > Jo > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Saturday, February 02, 2008 9:22 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > I agree. > Oh by the way, did I mention that Wales beat England at rugby today on English soil?....... ... > > Peter H > > > > > > metalscarab <metalscarab@ gmail.com> > @gro ups.com > Saturday, 2 February, 2008 9:18:44 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > > Hi Peter > > I'd say it's rather lazy thinking. There is a certain validity in the suggestion that meat from local animals won't have any of the " travel miles " from exotic fruits. But, at the risk of a terrible pun, it's comparing apples and pears... if he wanted to be truly environmentally friendly with his diet, he would compare the impact of localy farmed meat with the impact of locally farmed veg! > > And, as Katy's just pointed out, the feed for the animals on his local farm almost certainly will have a large number of travel miles... so, woolly thinking on his part all round. > > BB > Peter > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Saturday, February 02, 2008 8:46 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > Dont know what to make of this : > Thanks to Bryan Welch (“Why I Farm,†February/March 2007) for his moving story of farm life. I have been mostly vegan for nearly three years, primarily to eat lower on the food chain and avoid the synthetic chemicals, hormones and antibiotics found in most animal products. I also choose this lifestyle in consideration of animals’ lives, our planet’s well-being and conservation of resources. > > Recently, however, I’ve begun to re-evaluate my choices for a truly sustainable, healthy and environmentally sound diet. I’m realizing that being vegan in Montana isn’t nearly as sustainable as eating meat raised in a place like Bryan’s farm. My endive and fig salad with orange-balsamic vinaigrette, nothing of which comes from anywhere near Montana, strains the environment more than meat and potatoes from right down the road. > > Within the past year I’ve reintroduced the occasional meal of wild game, hunted by some friends on land within miles of my home. I’ve accepted this meat back in my diet because I know how and where the animal lived, what it ate and how it was killed. > > My friends hunt with reverence and respect for the life of the animal and aim to be “one shot wonders.†They took me hunting this fall. We didn’t kill an animal that day, but I am still committed to pursuing this experience. Although I await it with a sort of existential sadness. I fantasize of someday having a modest, self-sustaining farm with a fabulous garden, a few chickens and maybe some sheep or goats for meat, milk and fiber. That would be the last step in my evolution as an omnivore. I deeply appreciate the humility and depth of connection Bryan has with his farm and animals. His respect and reverence for their lives, and his honesty about confronting the life-death transition, are inspirational and affirming. I wish all meat-eaters could face the experience of killing the animals that sustain them with as much grace as Bryan †" the world would be better for it. > > ROSE TOCKE > Helena, Montana > The Vegetarian Choice > http://www.motherea rthnews.com/ Modern-Homestead ing/2007- 04-01/Dear- Mother-April- May-2007. aspx > > > Peter H > > > > -- > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > > -- -- > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > > -- ---- > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > > -- -------- > Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with for Good > > > > > -- ---------- > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 I wouldnt go as far as to call it racism, more friendly banter/ competitiveness, certainly from myself and all the other people I know. I`ve certainly heard lots of jokes from comedians on tele at the expense of the Welsh, it doesnt bother me that much. I think this is blown out of all proportion, another case of the PC generation. There was an element back in the early 80`s of the welsh extremists burning holiday homes up north, and what did that achieve? possibly put off a few more wealthy English/Scottish/Irish or whoever owned them,( it wasnt always the English), but didnt stop it happening? You will always get extremists in any walk of life, but they are the exeption not the rule. Lets hope you do better in your next game, and get a few points. Peter H metalscarab <metalscarab Sent: Monday, 4 February, 2008 9:48:49 PMRe: An Omnivore’s Evolution  Hi Peter I dunno - perhaps I just get a bit cheesed off with the constant racism I get from a number of Welsh people. Perhaps it's a problem of living near the border, but it does seem as though there are a large number of Welsh folks around here (and on e-mail lists) who have a real chip on their shoulder when it comes to the English. I've yet to come across anyone English with the same issues.... well, unless of course you take into consideration the fact that over 90% of the "Welsh" (and, ironically, the most fervent anti-English in my experience) come from English families who have moved to Wales in the past 100 years!!!! BB Peter - Peter VV @gro ups.com Monday, February 04, 2008 9:17 PM Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution Somehow I find that hard to believe, unfotunately. Peter H metalscarab <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comMonday, 4 February, 2008 9:04:13 PMRe: An Omnivore’s Evolution  Hi Peter I dunno - I've not heard any English people have any antagonism toward the Welsh... except in retaliation! BB Peter - Peter VV @gro ups.com Monday, February 04, 2008 8:40 PM Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution And to be fair vice versa...... Peter H metalscarab <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comMonday, 4 February, 2008 9:38:25 AMRe: An Omnivore’s Evolution  Hi Jo / Peter So, displaying a fairly standard Welsh attitude toward the English? BB Peter - jo @gro ups.com Sunday, February 03, 2008 9:41 PM Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution  ....but look how many injuries they had to cause to the England team to win! Jo - Peter VV @gro ups.com Sunday, February 03, 2008 8:20 PM Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution The best team won in the end! Peter H jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSaturday, 2 February, 2008 11:18:39 PMRe: An Omnivore’s Evolution  Watch it!! Twas a good match - Wales not too good in first half, England not too good in second. Jo - Peter VV @gro ups.com Saturday, February 02, 2008 9:22 PM Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution I agree. Oh by the way, did I mention that Wales beat England at rugby today on English soil?....... ... Peter H metalscarab <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSaturday, 2 February, 2008 9:18:44 PMRe: An Omnivore’s Evolution  Hi Peter I'd say it's rather lazy thinking. There is a certain validity in the suggestion that meat from local animals won't have any of the "travel miles" from exotic fruits. But, at the risk of a terrible pun, it's comparing apples and pears... if he wanted to be truly environmentally friendly with his diet, he would compare the impact of localy farmed meat with the impact of locally farmed veg! And, as Katy's just pointed out, the feed for the animals on his local farm almost certainly will have a large number of travel miles... so, woolly thinking on his part all round. BB Peter - Peter VV @gro ups.com Saturday, February 02, 2008 8:46 PM Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution Dont know what to make of this : Thanks to Bryan Welch (“Why I Farm,†February/March 2007) for his moving story of farm life. I have been mostly vegan for nearly three years, primarily to eat lower on the food chain and avoid the synthetic chemicals, hormones and antibiotics found in most animal products. I also choose this lifestyle in consideration of animals’ lives, our planet’s well-being and conservation of resources. Recently, however, I’ve begun to re-evaluate my choices for a truly sustainable, healthy and environmentally sound diet. I’m realizing that being vegan in Montana isn’t nearly as sustainable as eating meat raised in a place like Bryan’s farm. My endive and fig salad with orange-balsamic vinaigrette, nothing of which comes from anywhere near Montana, strains the environment more than meat and potatoes from right down the road. Within the past year I’ve reintroduced the occasional meal of wild game, hunted by some friends on land within miles of my home. I’ve accepted this meat back in my diet because I know how and where the animal lived, what it ate and how it was killed. My friends hunt with reverence and respect for the life of the animal and aim to be “one shot wonders.†They took me hunting this fall. We didn’t kill an animal that day, but I am still committed to pursuing this experience. Although I await it with a sort of existential sadness. I fantasize of someday having a modest, self-sustaining farm with a fabulous garden, a few chickens and maybe some sheep or goats for meat, milk and fiber. That would be the last step in my evolution as an omnivore. I deeply appreciate the humility and depth of connection Bryan has with his farm and animals. His respect and reverence for their lives, and his honesty about confronting the life-death transition, are inspirational and affirming. I wish all meat-eaters could face the experience of killing the animals that sustain them with as much grace as Bryan — the world would be better for it. ROSE TOCKEHelena, Montana The Vegetarian Choice http://www.motherea rthnews.com/ Modern-Homestead ing/2007- 04-01/Dear- Mother-April- May-2007. aspx Peter H Sent from - a smarter inbox. Sent from - a smarter inbox. Sent from - a smarter inbox. Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with for Good Sent from - a smarter inbox. Sent from - a smarter inbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008  Hi Peter I only recall one anti-Welsh comment in the media, and it caused furore (Anne Robinson IIRC). But then I don't watch a great deal of TV - in fact, most of what I do watch is produced by BBC Wales anyway! BB Peter - Peter VV Tuesday, February 05, 2008 12:25 PM Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution I wouldnt go as far as to call it racism, more friendly banter/ competitiveness, certainly from myself and all the other people I know. I`ve certainly heard lots of jokes from comedians on tele at the expense of the Welsh, it doesnt bother me that much. I think this is blown out of all proportion, another case of the PC generation. There was an element back in the early 80`s of the welsh extremists burning holiday homes up north, and what did that achieve? possibly put off a few more wealthy English/Scottish/Irish or whoever owned them,( it wasnt always the English), but didnt stop it happening? You will always get extremists in any walk of life, but they are the exeption not the rule. Lets hope you do better in your next game, and get a few points. Peter H metalscarab <metalscarab Sent: Monday, 4 February, 2008 9:48:49 PMRe: An Omnivore’s Evolution  Hi Peter I dunno - perhaps I just get a bit cheesed off with the constant racism I get from a number of Welsh people. Perhaps it's a problem of living near the border, but it does seem as though there are a large number of Welsh folks around here (and on e-mail lists) who have a real chip on their shoulder when it comes to the English. I've yet to come across anyone English with the same issues.... well, unless of course you take into consideration the fact that over 90% of the "Welsh" (and, ironically, the most fervent anti-English in my experience) come from English families who have moved to Wales in the past 100 years!!!! BB Peter - Peter VV @gro ups.com Monday, February 04, 2008 9:17 PM Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution Somehow I find that hard to believe, unfotunately. Peter H metalscarab <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comMonday, 4 February, 2008 9:04:13 PMRe: An Omnivore’s Evolution  Hi Peter I dunno - I've not heard any English people have any antagonism toward the Welsh... except in retaliation! BB Peter - Peter VV @gro ups.com Monday, February 04, 2008 8:40 PM Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution And to be fair vice versa...... Peter H metalscarab <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comMonday, 4 February, 2008 9:38:25 AMRe: An Omnivore’s Evolution  Hi Jo / Peter So, displaying a fairly standard Welsh attitude toward the English? BB Peter - jo @gro ups.com Sunday, February 03, 2008 9:41 PM Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution  ....but look how many injuries they had to cause to the England team to win! Jo - Peter VV @gro ups.com Sunday, February 03, 2008 8:20 PM Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution The best team won in the end! Peter H jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSaturday, 2 February, 2008 11:18:39 PMRe: An Omnivore’s Evolution  Watch it!! Twas a good match - Wales not too good in first half, England not too good in second. Jo - Peter VV @gro ups.com Saturday, February 02, 2008 9:22 PM Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution I agree. Oh by the way, did I mention that Wales beat England at rugby today on English soil?....... ... Peter H metalscarab <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSaturday, 2 February, 2008 9:18:44 PMRe: An Omnivore’s Evolution  Hi Peter I'd say it's rather lazy thinking. There is a certain validity in the suggestion that meat from local animals won't have any of the "travel miles" from exotic fruits. But, at the risk of a terrible pun, it's comparing apples and pears... if he wanted to be truly environmentally friendly with his diet, he would compare the impact of localy farmed meat with the impact of locally farmed veg! And, as Katy's just pointed out, the feed for the animals on his local farm almost certainly will have a large number of travel miles... so, woolly thinking on his part all round. BB Peter - Peter VV @gro ups.com Saturday, February 02, 2008 8:46 PM Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution Dont know what to make of this : Thanks to Bryan Welch (“Why I Farm,†February/March 2007) for his moving story of farm life. I have been mostly vegan for nearly three years, primarily to eat lower on the food chain and avoid the synthetic chemicals, hormones and antibiotics found in most animal products. I also choose this lifestyle in consideration of animals’ lives, our planet’s well-being and conservation of resources. Recently, however, I’ve begun to re-evaluate my choices for a truly sustainable, healthy and environmentally sound diet. I’m realizing that being vegan in Montana isn’t nearly as sustainable as eating meat raised in a place like Bryan’s farm. My endive and fig salad with orange-balsamic vinaigrette, nothing of which comes from anywhere near Montana, strains the environment more than meat and potatoes from right down the road. Within the past year I’ve reintroduced the occasional meal of wild game, hunted by some friends on land within miles of my home. I’ve accepted this meat back in my diet because I know how and where the animal lived, what it ate and how it was killed. My friends hunt with reverence and respect for the life of the animal and aim to be “one shot wonders.†They took me hunting this fall. We didn’t kill an animal that day, but I am still committed to pursuing this experience. Although I await it with a sort of existential sadness. I fantasize of someday having a modest, self-sustaining farm with a fabulous garden, a few chickens and maybe some sheep or goats for meat, milk and fiber. That would be the last step in my evolution as an omnivore. I deeply appreciate the humility and depth of connection Bryan has with his farm and animals. His respect and reverence for their lives, and his honesty about confronting the life-death transition, are inspirational and affirming. I wish all meat-eaters could face the experience of killing the animals that sustain them with as much grace as Bryan — the world would be better for it. ROSE TOCKEHelena, Montana The Vegetarian Choice http://www.motherea rthnews.com/ Modern-Homestead ing/2007- 04-01/Dear- Mother-April- May-2007. aspx Peter H Sent from - a smarter inbox. Sent from - a smarter inbox. Sent from - a smarter inbox. Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with for Good Sent from - a smarter inbox. Sent from - a smarter inbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Extremists are fuelled by normal people making unfriendly comments! We also here jokes about English people on the telly - but I expect you don't mind those. I can think of lots of jokes about people from Dorking - should I take offence? There is still anti-English graffiti in the areas you mention. As for rugby, while I support the English team most, I actually enjoy the game, no matter who is playing. I prefer it as a sport, not a war. Jo , Peter VV <swpgh01 wrote: > > I wouldnt go as far as to call it racism, more friendly banter/ competitiveness, certainly from myself and all the other people I know. I`ve certainly heard lots of jokes from comedians on tele at the expense of the Welsh, it doesnt bother me that much. I think this is blown out of all proportion, another case of the PC generation. > There was an element back in the early 80`s of the welsh extremists burning holiday homes up north, and what did that achieve? possibly put off a few more wealthy English/Scottish/Irish or whoever owned them,( it wasnt always the English), but didnt stop it happening? > You will always get extremists in any walk of life, but they are the exeption not the rule. > Lets hope you do better in your next game, and get a few points. > > Peter H > > > > > > metalscarab <metalscarab > > Monday, 4 February, 2008 9:48:49 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > >  > Hi Peter > > I dunno - perhaps I just get a bit cheesed off with the constant racism I get from a number of Welsh people. Perhaps it's a problem of living near the border, but it does seem as though there are a large number of Welsh folks around here (and on e-mail lists) who have a real chip on their shoulder when it comes to the English. I've yet to come across anyone English with the same issues.... well, unless of course you take into consideration the fact that over 90% of the " Welsh " (and, ironically, the most fervent anti-English in my experience) come from English families who have moved to Wales in the past 100 years!!!! > > BB > Peter > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Monday, February 04, 2008 9:17 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > Somehow I find that hard to believe, unfotunately. > > Peter H > > > > > > metalscarab <metalscarab@ gmail.com> > @gro ups.com > Monday, 4 February, 2008 9:04:13 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > Hi Peter > > I dunno - I've not heard any English people have any antagonism toward the Welsh... except in retaliation! > > BB > Peter > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Monday, February 04, 2008 8:40 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > And to be fair vice versa...... > > Peter H > > > > > > metalscarab <metalscarab@ gmail.com> > @gro ups.com > Monday, 4 February, 2008 9:38:25 AM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > Hi Jo / Peter > > So, displaying a fairly standard Welsh attitude toward the English? > > BB > Peter > - > jo > @gro ups.com > Sunday, February 03, 2008 9:41 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > ....but look how many injuries they had to cause to the England team to win! > > Jo > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Sunday, February 03, 2008 8:20 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > The best team won in the end! > > Peter H > > > > > > jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com> > @gro ups.com > Saturday, 2 February, 2008 11:18:39 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > Watch it!! Twas a good match - Wales not too good in first half, England not too good in second. > > Jo > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Saturday, February 02, 2008 9:22 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > I agree. > Oh by the way, did I mention that Wales beat England at rugby today on English soil?....... ... > > Peter H > > > > > > metalscarab <metalscarab@ gmail.com> > @gro ups.com > Saturday, 2 February, 2008 9:18:44 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > >  > Hi Peter > > I'd say it's rather lazy thinking. There is a certain validity in the suggestion that meat from local animals won't have any of the " travel miles " from exotic fruits. But, at the risk of a terrible pun, it's comparing apples and pears... if he wanted to be truly environmentally friendly with his diet, he would compare the impact of localy farmed meat with the impact of locally farmed veg! > > And, as Katy's just pointed out, the feed for the animals on his local farm almost certainly will have a large number of travel miles... so, woolly thinking on his part all round. > > BB > Peter > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Saturday, February 02, 2008 8:46 PM > Re: An Omnivore’s Evolution > > > Dont know what to make of this : > Thanks to Bryan Welch (“Why I Farm,†February/March 2007) for his moving story of farm life. I have been mostly vegan for nearly three years, primarily to eat lower on the food chain and avoid the synthetic chemicals, hormones and antibiotics found in most animal products. I also choose this lifestyle in consideration of animals’ lives, our planet’s well-being and conservation of resources. > Recently, however, I’ve begun to re-evaluate my choices for a truly sustainable, healthy and environmentally sound diet. I’m realizing that being vegan in Montana isn’t nearly as sustainable as eating meat raised in a place like Bryan’s farm. My endive and fig salad with orange-balsamic vinaigrette, nothing of which comes from anywhere near Montana, strains the environment more than meat and potatoes from right down the road. > Within the past year I’ve reintroduced the occasional meal of wild game, hunted by some friends on land within miles of my home. I’ve accepted this meat back in my diet because I know how and where the animal lived, what it ate and how it was killed. > My friends hunt with reverence and respect for the life of the animal and aim to be “one shot wonders.†They took me hunting this fall. We didn’t kill an animal that day, but I am still committed to pursuing this experience. Although I await it with a sort of existential sadness. I fantasize of someday having a modest, self-sustaining farm with a fabulous garden, a few chickens and maybe some sheep or goats for meat, milk and fiber. That would be the last step in my evolution as an omnivore. I deeply appreciate the humility and depth of connection Bryan has with his farm and animals. His respect and reverence for their lives, and his honesty about confronting the life-death transition, are inspirational and affirming. I wish all meat-eaters could face the experience of killing the animals that sustain them with as much grace as Bryan †" the world would be better for it. > ROSE TOCKE > Helena, Montana > The Vegetarian Choice > http://www.motherea rthnews.com/ Modern-Homestead ing/2007- 04- 01/Dear- Mother-April- May-2007. aspx > > Peter H > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > > > Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with for Good > > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > ________ > Sent from Mail - a smarter inbox http://uk.mail. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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