Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 my drug of choice is cafiene.........interupts with my spelling though...... Peter H fraggle <EBbrewpunx Sent: Wednesday, 13 February, 2008 4:29:30 PMRe: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion so, what is the drug of choice/desire in yer neck of the woods then? and earthlink is not letting me edit/clip e-mails again argh..... Peter VV Feb 13, 2008 12:16 AM @gro ups.com Re: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Oh yes, but nothing compares to the 70`s when gangs regularly arranged to meet just to fight with anything from chains , hammers to axes. A hell of a lot of people got sent down in that era (quite rightly too ). Most of the gangs are nothing major now, just kids, the organised crime now is drugs orientated smaller gangs. Peter H heartwerk <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comWednesday, 13 February, 2008 7:48:34 AM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Are you sure you don't have violent gangs - most towns do.Jo@gro ups.com, Peter VV <swpgh01 > wrote:>> Ha,ha,ha,ha. ......... .> Where I live has been in decline so long, must be on its way back up soon! The government couldnt afford / or have the inclination to do anything in communities like mine. Drugs are the main issue round here, worse than ever. At least the gang culture ( violent gang culture ) ended in the 70`s, was a wierd period of town gang against town gang for no reason other than they were from different towns?!> And I was never in any Welsh chapter, thank you Fraggle..... ....... > Peter H > > > > > > fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ ...>> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, 12 February, 2008 8:22:18 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > ok, i know yer kidding, but, thats pretty messed up> so, i guess we all shouldn't care about anything, too little too late...why try, i mean, the pollution is already out there, the wars already started, the cows already on the killing room floor...i'm heading to burger king........ ......... ...> come on peter...> maybe someone should i dunno, ask these so called trouble makers why the hanging out, and what they would rather do> but, i guess you were a model kid and NEVER did anything wrong as a teen, yup, lil welshian angel, helping old ladies across the coal mine and all that there....... ...> > > > > Peter VV > Feb 12, 2008 12:14 PM > @gro ups.com > Re: Mosquito device divides opinion > > > Too many, too late to give them something to do. Would cost a fortune also.> Maybe herd them to a soylent green factory..... ..> > Peter H > > > > > > fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ earthlin k.net>> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, 12 February, 2008 8:11:59 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > > couldn't just give the kids something to do? i guess that would be wrong> lets just move them along somewhere else...> > > > > Peter VV > Feb 12, 2008 11:22 AM > @gro ups.com > Re: Mosquito device divides opinion > > > I dont know, If they stuck them everywhere indiscriminately , then yes. But if they have known trouble spots where kids bored out of their skulls have been known to congregate just to get pissed/high and terrorise the neighbourhood, then why not? Its a lot less harmfull than violent means....> > Peter H > > > > > > jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, 12 February, 2008 7:12:20 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > >  > I think it's disgraceful. Not all youngsters are troublemakers or troublesome, and they should not be treated in such a fashion. How would we feel if there was something similar that affected only 40 year olds or 50 , or 60? or black people or white people etc. etc.> > When I was at school if someone did something wrong and didn't own up every child in the class got a slap on the leg with a ruler. It's a pity we haven't moved on a little in our thinking.> > Jo> - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Tuesday, February 12, 2008 5:56 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > > A high-pitched device that is generally only heard by people under the age of 25 and used to disperse groups of youths is causing controversy. Amid calls in England and Scotland for a ban on the Mosquito device, a shopkeeper and a teenager give their points of view. > ROBERT GOUGH, SHOPKEEPER> > The device has dramatically reduced the problem, says Mr Gough> Robert Gough runs a Spar convenience store in Barry, south Wales. His was the first premises to use the Mosquito device. > We have had the Mosquito for two years. It was tested here. > The problem we have is large gangs of youths that congregate in the entrance way - hanging around, drinking, and I know other narcotics can be involved. > It ranges from them being annoying to intimidating customers and staff to outright physical assault. > One customer has been mugged for their alcohol, and in the time I have been here there have been three occasions where someone has tried to stab me. > The problem comes and goes. When it gets bad it generally lasts for three of four weeks. > At certain times before we counted over 40 people outside the shop. > The Mosquito has reduced the problem massively. > It still happens, but nowhere near the same amount. It has had a positive effect. Customers have praised us for it. > Where they have moved on to I'm not quite sure. > At the moment we have the device on a timer, but we can override it. Once it comes on in the early evening it stays on until the shop shuts at 11pm. > It's the hardest problem to deal with. With a shoplifter you confront them and they either run off or they stay while you wait for the police. > But when you have a gang of youths there's always going to be someone who, surrounded by the mates and showing off, will escalate the situation. > Even if they ban the use of the device I am going to continue to use it, it's just so important, there's no way I could do without it now. > > BARRY, TEENAGE CAMPAIGNER> Barry from Corby, Northamptonshire, is one of several young people who say they have been affected by the device and are leading the Buzz Off campaign - launched by the National Youth Agency and human rights group Liberty. > I don't like it because it is discriminatory towards young people. Because it only targets people under the age of 25, which could mean any young person. > What shopkeepers need to consider is young people are their customers as well and they could end up losing a lot of money by moving people along. > Because even if they go in a shop they will still hear the device. > In our campaign, we are targeting anyone who agrees with the Mosquito device, to try and change their opinion so that they agree with us, because frankly I just think they're terrible. > > Youth clubs would be a better answer, says Barry> If it was aimed at adults then everyone would be upset about it, but because it's young people no-one really cares. > There's adults who cause trouble as well, there a lot of anti-social behaviour caused by adults outside pubs when they come out as well. > I'd use things like CCTV cameras, because that picks up whoever's causing the problem. And use youth workers, who can go and talk to the young people and find out what they need and see what the problem is. > I know that anti-social behaviour is a problem but I just don't believe that Mosquito devices are the way to tackle it. > There isn't actually enough to do. Where I live there's a youth club that's only on one night a week. If it was on every night of the week then we'd have more to do. > We need to have more youth agencies, more places for young people to go to just sit and have fun with their friends. Play pool, watch TV, play computer games and stuff. I do believe that is a good idea. > I think people are being unfair by installing the Mosquito devices because just because there's a group of people, they could be there for any reason. > They could be waiting for another friend to come to the shop so they can meet up and go somewhere else. > I just don't think adults remember what it's like anymore. Times have changed. > > > Peter H > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. > Confucius> > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. > Confucius> > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with For Good http://uk.promotion s./ forgood/> Sent from - a smarter inbox. Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Confucius Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with for Good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 So it must only be a matter of time before someone takes this to court? Peter H metalscarab <metalscarab Sent: Wednesday, 13 February, 2008 9:52:39 AMRe: Mosquito device divides opinion  Hi Peter Maybe so - but legally speaking anything outside his shop is public property, and I have as much right to walk past it as he has. It is a criminal offence to cause harm to people in public space, or to do anything to unreasonably restrict their rights. So I would have the legal backing to make a stand! Come to that, anyone has the right to get a court order to have him remove the device - if only those "under 25s" knew their rights better.... they have every right to hang out near shops, provided they don't harm or intimidate anyone in the rpocess. The shopkeeper is breaching their basic rights, not the other way around. BB Peter - Peter VV @gro ups.com Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:02 AM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion I wonder what sort of range they have? I mean that if they only have a say 20-30 yard range then srely the gangs will just hang about just outside the range? Oh and the counter argument from the shop keeper to you would probably be dont walk past his shop then.. Peter H metalscarab <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comWednesday, 13 February, 2008 8:23:10 AMRe: Mosquito device divides opinion  Just to throw in my two-pennorth. I have very good hearing, and these sort of devices cause me physical pain. I think I would be very likel;y to seek legal redress against the owners of a shop who put one of these up on a route I have to walk every day! BB Peter - Peter VV @gro ups.com Tuesday, February 12, 2008 7:43 PM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion If it keeps them away from families with young kids etc I`m all for it. Peter H jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 February, 2008 7:27:16 PMRe: Mosquito device divides opinion  Surely it just sends the troublemakers to a place a little way away - it doesn't really solve any problems. Jo - Peter VV @gro ups.com Tuesday, February 12, 2008 7:22 PM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion I dont know, If they stuck them everywhere indiscriminately , then yes. But if they have known trouble spots where kids bored out of their skulls have been known to congregate just to get pissed/high and terrorise the neighbourhood, then why not? Its a lot less harmfull than violent means.... Peter H jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 February, 2008 7:12:20 PMRe: Mosquito device divides opinion  I think it's disgraceful. Not all youngsters are troublemakers or troublesome, and they should not be treated in such a fashion. How would we feel if there was something similar that affected only 40 year olds or 50 , or 60? or black people or white people etc. etc. When I was at school if someone did something wrong and didn't own up every child in the class got a slap on the leg with a ruler. It's a pity we haven't moved on a little in our thinking. Jo - Peter VV @gro ups.com Tuesday, February 12, 2008 5:56 PM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion A high-pitched device that is generally only heard by people under the age of 25 and used to disperse groups of youths is causing controversy. Amid calls in England and Scotland for a ban on the Mosquito device, a shopkeeper and a teenager give their points of view. ROBERT GOUGH, SHOPKEEPER The device has dramatically reduced the problem, says Mr Gough Robert Gough runs a Spar convenience store in Barry, south Wales. His was the first premises to use the Mosquito device. We have had the Mosquito for two years. It was tested here. The problem we have is large gangs of youths that congregate in the entrance way - hanging around, drinking, and I know other narcotics can be involved. It ranges from them being annoying to intimidating customers and staff to outright physical assault. One customer has been mugged for their alcohol, and in the time I have been here there have been three occasions where someone has tried to stab me. The problem comes and goes. When it gets bad it generally lasts for three of four weeks. At certain times before we counted over 40 people outside the shop. The Mosquito has reduced the problem massively. It still happens, but nowhere near the same amount. It has had a positive effect. Customers have praised us for it. Where they have moved on to I'm not quite sure. At the moment we have the device on a timer, but we can override it. Once it comes on in the early evening it stays on until the shop shuts at 11pm. It's the hardest problem to deal with. With a shoplifter you confront them and they either run off or they stay while you wait for the police. But when you have a gang of youths there's always going to be someone who, surrounded by the mates and showing off, will escalate the situation. Even if they ban the use of the device I am going to continue to use it, it's just so important, there's no way I could do without it now. BARRY, TEENAGE CAMPAIGNER Barry from Corby, Northamptonshire, is one of several young people who say they have been affected by the device and are leading the Buzz Off campaign - launched by the National Youth Agency and human rights group Liberty. I don't like it because it is discriminatory towards young people. Because it only targets people under the age of 25, which could mean any young person. What shopkeepers need to consider is young people are their customers as well and they could end up losing a lot of money by moving people along. Because even if they go in a shop they will still hear the device. In our campaign, we are targeting anyone who agrees with the Mosquito device, to try and change their opinion so that they agree with us, because frankly I just think they're terrible. Youth clubs would be a better answer, says Barry If it was aimed at adults then everyone would be upset about it, but because it's young people no-one really cares. There's adults who cause trouble as well, there a lot of anti-social behaviour caused by adults outside pubs when they come out as well. I'd use things like CCTV cameras, because that picks up whoever's causing the problem. And use youth workers, who can go and talk to the young people and find out what they need and see what the problem is. I know that anti-social behaviour is a problem but I just don't believe that Mosquito devices are the way to tackle it. There isn't actually enough to do. Where I live there's a youth club that's only on one night a week. If it was on every night of the week then we'd have more to do. We need to have more youth agencies, more places for young people to go to just sit and have fun with their friends. Play pool, watch TV, play computer games and stuff. I do believe that is a good idea. I think people are being unfair by installing the Mosquito devices because just because there's a group of people, they could be there for any reason. They could be waiting for another friend to come to the shop so they can meet up and go somewhere else. I just don't think adults remember what it's like anymore. Times have changed. Peter H Sent from - a smarter inbox. Sent from - a smarter inbox. Sent from - a smarter inbox. Sent from - a smarter inbox. Sent from - a smarter inbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008  I don't think anyone is likely to answer that question! Jo - Peter VV Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:17 PM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Did someone get to see Fraggles arse? Peter H fraggle <EBbrewpunx Sent: Wednesday, 13 February, 2008 4:40:38 PMRe: Mosquito device divides opinion i thought things were "big brotherish" here...but.. after our trip over there last spring, my bacchus... never knew you had soooooooooooooo many cameras...on street corners, in alleys...damn things were everywhere.. . metalscarab Feb 13, 2008 1:52 AM @gro ups.com Re: Mosquito device divides opinion  Hi Peter Maybe so - but legally speaking anything outside his shop is public property, and I have as much right to walk past it as he has. It is a criminal offence to cause harm to people in public space, or to do anything to unreasonably restrict their rights. So I would have the legal backing to make a stand! Come to that, anyone has the right to get a court order to have him remove the device - if only those "under 25s" knew their rights better.... they have every right to hang out near shops, provided they don't harm or intimidate anyone in the rpocess. The shopkeeper is breaching their basic rights, not the other way around. BB Peter - Peter VV @gro ups.com Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:02 AM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion I wonder what sort of range they have? I mean that if they only have a say 20-30 yard range then srely the gangs will just hang about just outside the range? Oh and the counter argument from the shop keeper to you would probably be dont walk past his shop then.. Peter H metalscarab <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comWednesday, 13 February, 2008 8:23:10 AMRe: Mosquito device divides opinion  Just to throw in my two-pennorth. I have very good hearing, and these sort of devices cause me physical pain. I think I would be very likel;y to seek legal redress against the owners of a shop who put one of these up on a route I have to walk every day! BB Peter - Peter VV @gro ups.com Tuesday, February 12, 2008 7:43 PM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion If it keeps them away from families with young kids etc I`m all for it. Peter H jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 February, 2008 7:27:16 PMRe: Mosquito device divides opinion  Surely it just sends the troublemakers to a place a little way away - it doesn't really solve any problems. Jo - Peter VV @gro ups.com Tuesday, February 12, 2008 7:22 PM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion I dont know, If they stuck them everywhere indiscriminately , then yes. But if they have known trouble spots where kids bored out of their skulls have been known to congregate just to get pissed/high and terrorise the neighbourhood, then why not? Its a lot less harmfull than violent means.... Peter H jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 February, 2008 7:12:20 PMRe: Mosquito device divides opinion  I think it's disgraceful. Not all youngsters are troublemakers or troublesome, and they should not be treated in such a fashion. How would we feel if there was something similar that affected only 40 year olds or 50 , or 60? or black people or white people etc. etc. When I was at school if someone did something wrong and didn't own up every child in the class got a slap on the leg with a ruler. It's a pity we haven't moved on a little in our thinking. Jo - Peter VV @gro ups.com Tuesday, February 12, 2008 5:56 PM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion A high-pitched device that is generally only heard by people under the age of 25 and used to disperse groups of youths is causing controversy. Amid calls in England and Scotland for a ban on the Mosquito device, a shopkeeper and a teenager give their points of view. ROBERT GOUGH, SHOPKEEPER The device has dramatically reduced the problem, says Mr Gough Robert Gough runs a Spar convenience store in Barry, south Wales. His was the first premises to use the Mosquito device. We have had the Mosquito for two years. It was tested here. The problem we have is large gangs of youths that congregate in the entrance way - hanging around, drinking, and I know other narcotics can be involved. It ranges from them being annoying to intimidating customers and staff to outright physical assault. One customer has been mugged for their alcohol, and in the time I have been here there have been three occasions where someone has tried to stab me. The problem comes and goes. When it gets bad it generally lasts for three of four weeks. At certain times before we counted over 40 people outside the shop. The Mosquito has reduced the problem massively. It still happens, but nowhere near the same amount. It has had a positive effect. Customers have praised us for it. Where they have moved on to I'm not quite sure. At the moment we have the device on a timer, but we can override it. Once it comes on in the early evening it stays on until the shop shuts at 11pm. It's the hardest problem to deal with. With a shoplifter you confront them and they either run off or they stay while you wait for the police. But when you have a gang of youths there's always going to be someone who, surrounded by the mates and showing off, will escalate the situation. Even if they ban the use of the device I am going to continue to use it, it's just so important, there's no way I could do without it now. BARRY, TEENAGE CAMPAIGNER Barry from Corby, Northamptonshire, is one of several young people who say they have been affected by the device and are leading the Buzz Off campaign - launched by the National Youth Agency and human rights group Liberty. I don't like it because it is discriminatory towards young people. Because it only targets people under the age of 25, which could mean any young person. What shopkeepers need to consider is young people are their customers as well and they could end up losing a lot of money by moving people along. Because even if they go in a shop they will still hear the device. In our campaign, we are targeting anyone who agrees with the Mosquito device, to try and change their opinion so that they agree with us, because frankly I just think they're terrible. Youth clubs would be a better answer, says Barry If it was aimed at adults then everyone would be upset about it, but because it's young people no-one really cares. There's adults who cause trouble as well, there a lot of anti-social behaviour caused by adults outside pubs when they come out as well. I'd use things like CCTV cameras, because that picks up whoever's causing the problem. And use youth workers, who can go and talk to the young people and find out what they need and see what the problem is. I know that anti-social behaviour is a problem but I just don't believe that Mosquito devices are the way to tackle it. There isn't actually enough to do. Where I live there's a youth club that's only on one night a week. If it was on every night of the week then we'd have more to do. We need to have more youth agencies, more places for young people to go to just sit and have fun with their friends. Play pool, watch TV, play computer games and stuff. I do believe that is a good idea. I think people are being unfair by installing the Mosquito devices because just because there's a group of people, they could be there for any reason. They could be waiting for another friend to come to the shop so they can meet up and go somewhere else. I just don't think adults remember what it's like anymore. Times have changed. Peter H Sent from - a smarter inbox. Sent from - a smarter inbox. Sent from - a smarter inbox. Sent from - a smarter inbox. Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Confucius Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with for Good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 i told ya'll, we mooned that camera in Bath... then thought about it 2 minutes later and mosied on over to a pub............ Peter VV Feb 13, 2008 10:17 AM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Did someone get to see Fraggles arse? Peter H fraggle <EBbrewpunx (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> Sent: Wednesday, 13 February, 2008 4:40:38 PMRe: Mosquito device divides opinion i thought things were "big brotherish" here...but.. after our trip over there last spring, my bacchus... never knew you had soooooooooooooo many cameras...on street corners, in alleys...damn things were everywhere.. . metalscarab Feb 13, 2008 1:52 AM @gro ups.com Re: Mosquito device divides opinion  Hi Peter Maybe so - but legally speaking anything outside his shop is public property, and I have as much right to walk past it as he has. It is a criminal offence to cause harm to people in public space, or to do anything to unreasonably restrict their rights. So I would have the legal backing to make a stand! Come to that, anyone has the right to get a court order to have him remove the device - if only those "under 25s" knew their rights better.... they have every right to hang out near shops, provided they don't harm or intimidate anyone in the rpocess. The shopkeeper is breaching their basic rights, not the other way around. BB Peter - Peter VV @gro ups.com Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:02 AM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion I wonder what sort of range they have? I mean that if they only have a say 20-30 yard range then srely the gangs will just hang about just outside the range? Oh and the counter argument from the shop keeper to you would probably be dont walk past his shop then.. Peter H metalscarab <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comWednesday, 13 February, 2008 8:23:10 AMRe: Mosquito device divides opinion  Just to throw in my two-pennorth. I have very good hearing, and these sort of devices cause me physical pain. I think I would be very likel;y to seek legal redress against the owners of a shop who put one of these up on a route I have to walk every day! BB Peter - Peter VV @gro ups.com Tuesday, February 12, 2008 7:43 PM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion If it keeps them away from families with young kids etc I`m all for it. Peter H jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 February, 2008 7:27:16 PMRe: Mosquito device divides opinion  Surely it just sends the troublemakers to a place a little way away - it doesn't really solve any problems. Jo - Peter VV @gro ups.com Tuesday, February 12, 2008 7:22 PM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion I dont know, If they stuck them everywhere indiscriminately , then yes. But if they have known trouble spots where kids bored out of their skulls have been known to congregate just to get pissed/high and terrorise the neighbourhood, then why not? Its a lot less harmfull than violent means.... Peter H jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 February, 2008 7:12:20 PMRe: Mosquito device divides opinion  I think it's disgraceful. Not all youngsters are troublemakers or troublesome, and they should not be treated in such a fashion. How would we feel if there was something similar that affected only 40 year olds or 50 , or 60? or black people or white people etc. etc. When I was at school if someone did something wrong and didn't own up every child in the class got a slap on the leg with a ruler. It's a pity we haven't moved on a little in our thinking. Jo - Peter VV @gro ups.com Tuesday, February 12, 2008 5:56 PM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion A high-pitched device that is generally only heard by people under the age of 25 and used to disperse groups of youths is causing controversy. Amid calls in England and Scotland for a ban on the Mosquito device, a shopkeeper and a teenager give their points of view. ROBERT GOUGH, SHOPKEEPER The device has dramatically reduced the problem, says Mr Gough Robert Gough runs a Spar convenience store in Barry, south Wales. His was the first premises to use the Mosquito device. We have had the Mosquito for two years. It was tested here. The problem we have is large gangs of youths that congregate in the entrance way - hanging around, drinking, and I know other narcotics can be involved. It ranges from them being annoying to intimidating customers and staff to outright physical assault. One customer has been mugged for their alcohol, and in the time I have been here there have been three occasions where someone has tried to stab me. The problem comes and goes. When it gets bad it generally lasts for three of four weeks. At certain times before we counted over 40 people outside the shop. The Mosquito has reduced the problem massively. It still happens, but nowhere near the same amount. It has had a positive effect. Customers have praised us for it. Where they have moved on to I'm not quite sure. At the moment we have the device on a timer, but we can override it. Once it comes on in the early evening it stays on until the shop shuts at 11pm. It's the hardest problem to deal with. With a shoplifter you confront them and they either run off or they stay while you wait for the police. But when you have a gang of youths there's always going to be someone who, surrounded by the mates and showing off, will escalate the situation. Even if they ban the use of the device I am going to continue to use it, it's just so important, there's no way I could do without it now. BARRY, TEENAGE CAMPAIGNER Barry from Corby, Northamptonshire, is one of several young people who say they have been affected by the device and are leading the Buzz Off campaign - launched by the National Youth Agency and human rights group Liberty. I don't like it because it is discriminatory towards young people. Because it only targets people under the age of 25, which could mean any young person. What shopkeepers need to consider is young people are their customers as well and they could end up losing a lot of money by moving people along. Because even if they go in a shop they will still hear the device. In our campaign, we are targeting anyone who agrees with the Mosquito device, to try and change their opinion so that they agree with us, because frankly I just think they're terrible. Youth clubs would be a better answer, says Barry If it was aimed at adults then everyone would be upset about it, but because it's young people no-one really cares. There's adults who cause trouble as well, there a lot of anti-social behaviour caused by adults outside pubs when they come out as well. I'd use things like CCTV cameras, because that picks up whoever's causing the problem. And use youth workers, who can go and talk to the young people and find out what they need and see what the problem is. I know that anti-social behaviour is a problem but I just don't believe that Mosquito devices are the way to tackle it. There isn't actually enough to do. Where I live there's a youth club that's only on one night a week. If it was on every night of the week then we'd have more to do. We need to have more youth agencies, more places for young people to go to just sit and have fun with their friends. Play pool, watch TV, play computer games and stuff. I do believe that is a good idea. I think people are being unfair by installing the Mosquito devices because just because there's a group of people, they could be there for any reason. They could be waiting for another friend to come to the shop so they can meet up and go somewhere else. I just don't think adults remember what it's like anymore. Times have changed. Peter H Sent from - a smarter inbox. Sent from - a smarter inbox. Sent from - a smarter inbox. Sent from - a smarter inbox. Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Confucius Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with for Good Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Confucius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 i meant in your area...you said there are big drug problems such as? Peter VV Feb 13, 2008 10:19 AM Re: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion my drug of choice is cafiene.........interupts with my spelling though...... Peter H fraggle <EBbrewpunx (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> Sent: Wednesday, 13 February, 2008 4:29:30 PMRe: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion so, what is the drug of choice/desire in yer neck of the woods then? and earthlink is not letting me edit/clip e-mails again argh..... Peter VV Feb 13, 2008 12:16 AM @gro ups.com Re: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Oh yes, but nothing compares to the 70`s when gangs regularly arranged to meet just to fight with anything from chains , hammers to axes. A hell of a lot of people got sent down in that era (quite rightly too ). Most of the gangs are nothing major now, just kids, the organised crime now is drugs orientated smaller gangs. Peter H heartwerk <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comWednesday, 13 February, 2008 7:48:34 AM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Are you sure you don't have violent gangs - most towns do.Jo@gro ups.com, Peter VV <swpgh01 > wrote:>> Ha,ha,ha,ha. ......... .> Where I live has been in decline so long, must be on its way back up soon! The government couldnt afford / or have the inclination to do anything in communities like mine. Drugs are the main issue round here, worse than ever. At least the gang culture ( violent gang culture ) ended in the 70`s, was a wierd period of town gang against town gang for no reason other than they were from different towns?!> And I was never in any Welsh chapter, thank you Fraggle..... ....... > Peter H > > > > > > fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ ...>> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, 12 February, 2008 8:22:18 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > ok, i know yer kidding, but, thats pretty messed up> so, i guess we all shouldn't care about anything, too little too late...why try, i mean, the pollution is already out there, the wars already started, the cows already on the killing room floor...i'm heading to burger king........ ......... ...> come on peter...> maybe someone should i dunno, ask these so called trouble makers why the hanging out, and what they would rather do> but, i guess you were a model kid and NEVER did anything wrong as a teen, yup, lil welshian angel, helping old ladies across the coal mine and all that there....... ...> > > > > Peter VV > Feb 12, 2008 12:14 PM > @gro ups.com > Re: Mosquito device divides opinion > > > Too many, too late to give them something to do. Would cost a fortune also.> Maybe herd them to a soylent green factory..... ..> > Peter H > > > > > > fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ earthlin k.net>> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, 12 February, 2008 8:11:59 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > > couldn't just give the kids something to do? i guess that would be wrong> lets just move them along somewhere else...> > > > > Peter VV > Feb 12, 2008 11:22 AM > @gro ups.com > Re: Mosquito device divides opinion > > > I dont know, If they stuck them everywhere indiscriminately , then yes. But if they have known trouble spots where kids bored out of their skulls have been known to congregate just to get pissed/high and terrorise the neighbourhood, then why not? Its a lot less harmfull than violent means....> > Peter H > > > > > > jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, 12 February, 2008 7:12:20 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > >  > I think it's disgraceful. Not all youngsters are troublemakers or troublesome, and they should not be treated in such a fashion. How would we feel if there was something similar that affected only 40 year olds or 50 , or 60? or black people or white people etc. etc.> > When I was at school if someone did something wrong and didn't own up every child in the class got a slap on the leg with a ruler. It's a pity we haven't moved on a little in our thinking.> > Jo> - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Tuesday, February 12, 2008 5:56 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > > A high-pitched device that is generally only heard by people under the age of 25 and used to disperse groups of youths is causing controversy. Amid calls in England and Scotland for a ban on the Mosquito device, a shopkeeper and a teenager give their points of view. > ROBERT GOUGH, SHOPKEEPER> > The device has dramatically reduced the problem, says Mr Gough> Robert Gough runs a Spar convenience store in Barry, south Wales. His was the first premises to use the Mosquito device. > We have had the Mosquito for two years. It was tested here. > The problem we have is large gangs of youths that congregate in the entrance way - hanging around, drinking, and I know other narcotics can be involved. > It ranges from them being annoying to intimidating customers and staff to outright physical assault. > One customer has been mugged for their alcohol, and in the time I have been here there have been three occasions where someone has tried to stab me. > The problem comes and goes. When it gets bad it generally lasts for three of four weeks. > At certain times before we counted over 40 people outside the shop. > The Mosquito has reduced the problem massively. > It still happens, but nowhere near the same amount. It has had a positive effect. Customers have praised us for it. > Where they have moved on to I'm not quite sure. > At the moment we have the device on a timer, but we can override it. Once it comes on in the early evening it stays on until the shop shuts at 11pm. > It's the hardest problem to deal with. With a shoplifter you confront them and they either run off or they stay while you wait for the police. > But when you have a gang of youths there's always going to be someone who, surrounded by the mates and showing off, will escalate the situation. > Even if they ban the use of the device I am going to continue to use it, it's just so important, there's no way I could do without it now. > > BARRY, TEENAGE CAMPAIGNER> Barry from Corby, Northamptonshire, is one of several young people who say they have been affected by the device and are leading the Buzz Off campaign - launched by the National Youth Agency and human rights group Liberty. > I don't like it because it is discriminatory towards young people. Because it only targets people under the age of 25, which could mean any young person. > What shopkeepers need to consider is young people are their customers as well and they could end up losing a lot of money by moving people along. > Because even if they go in a shop they will still hear the device. > In our campaign, we are targeting anyone who agrees with the Mosquito device, to try and change their opinion so that they agree with us, because frankly I just think they're terrible. > > Youth clubs would be a better answer, says Barry> If it was aimed at adults then everyone would be upset about it, but because it's young people no-one really cares. > There's adults who cause trouble as well, there a lot of anti-social behaviour caused by adults outside pubs when they come out as well. > I'd use things like CCTV cameras, because that picks up whoever's causing the problem. And use youth workers, who can go and talk to the young people and find out what they need and see what the problem is. > I know that anti-social behaviour is a problem but I just don't believe that Mosquito devices are the way to tackle it. > There isn't actually enough to do. Where I live there's a youth club that's only on one night a week. If it was on every night of the week then we'd have more to do. > We need to have more youth agencies, more places for young people to go to just sit and have fun with their friends. Play pool, watch TV, play computer games and stuff. I do believe that is a good idea. > I think people are being unfair by installing the Mosquito devices because just because there's a group of people, they could be there for any reason. > They could be waiting for another friend to come to the shop so they can meet up and go somewhere else. > I just don't think adults remember what it's like anymore. Times have changed. > > > Peter H > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. > Confucius> > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. > Confucius> > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with For Good http://uk.promotion s./ forgood/> Sent from - a smarter inbox. Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Confucius Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with for Good Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Confucius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008  Hi Peter I certainly hope so. It's not entirely without precedent - you can't put something outside your property (or even inside your property) which gives a mild electric shock to anyone who touches it. So on that basis, you can't intentionally cause them discomfort in any other way. BB Peter - Peter VV Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:22 PM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion So it must only be a matter of time before someone takes this to court? Peter H metalscarab <metalscarab Sent: Wednesday, 13 February, 2008 9:52:39 AMRe: Mosquito device divides opinion  Hi Peter Maybe so - but legally speaking anything outside his shop is public property, and I have as much right to walk past it as he has. It is a criminal offence to cause harm to people in public space, or to do anything to unreasonably restrict their rights. So I would have the legal backing to make a stand! Come to that, anyone has the right to get a court order to have him remove the device - if only those "under 25s" knew their rights better.... they have every right to hang out near shops, provided they don't harm or intimidate anyone in the rpocess. The shopkeeper is breaching their basic rights, not the other way around. BB Peter - Peter VV @gro ups.com Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:02 AM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion I wonder what sort of range they have? I mean that if they only have a say 20-30 yard range then srely the gangs will just hang about just outside the range? Oh and the counter argument from the shop keeper to you would probably be dont walk past his shop then.. Peter H metalscarab <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comWednesday, 13 February, 2008 8:23:10 AMRe: Mosquito device divides opinion  Just to throw in my two-pennorth. I have very good hearing, and these sort of devices cause me physical pain. I think I would be very likel;y to seek legal redress against the owners of a shop who put one of these up on a route I have to walk every day! BB Peter - Peter VV @gro ups.com Tuesday, February 12, 2008 7:43 PM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion If it keeps them away from families with young kids etc I`m all for it. Peter H jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 February, 2008 7:27:16 PMRe: Mosquito device divides opinion  Surely it just sends the troublemakers to a place a little way away - it doesn't really solve any problems. Jo - Peter VV @gro ups.com Tuesday, February 12, 2008 7:22 PM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion I dont know, If they stuck them everywhere indiscriminately , then yes. But if they have known trouble spots where kids bored out of their skulls have been known to congregate just to get pissed/high and terrorise the neighbourhood, then why not? Its a lot less harmfull than violent means.... Peter H jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 February, 2008 7:12:20 PMRe: Mosquito device divides opinion  I think it's disgraceful. Not all youngsters are troublemakers or troublesome, and they should not be treated in such a fashion. How would we feel if there was something similar that affected only 40 year olds or 50 , or 60? or black people or white people etc. etc. When I was at school if someone did something wrong and didn't own up every child in the class got a slap on the leg with a ruler. It's a pity we haven't moved on a little in our thinking. Jo - Peter VV @gro ups.com Tuesday, February 12, 2008 5:56 PM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion A high-pitched device that is generally only heard by people under the age of 25 and used to disperse groups of youths is causing controversy. Amid calls in England and Scotland for a ban on the Mosquito device, a shopkeeper and a teenager give their points of view. ROBERT GOUGH, SHOPKEEPER The device has dramatically reduced the problem, says Mr Gough Robert Gough runs a Spar convenience store in Barry, south Wales. His was the first premises to use the Mosquito device. We have had the Mosquito for two years. It was tested here. The problem we have is large gangs of youths that congregate in the entrance way - hanging around, drinking, and I know other narcotics can be involved. It ranges from them being annoying to intimidating customers and staff to outright physical assault. One customer has been mugged for their alcohol, and in the time I have been here there have been three occasions where someone has tried to stab me. The problem comes and goes. When it gets bad it generally lasts for three of four weeks. At certain times before we counted over 40 people outside the shop. The Mosquito has reduced the problem massively. It still happens, but nowhere near the same amount. It has had a positive effect. Customers have praised us for it. Where they have moved on to I'm not quite sure. At the moment we have the device on a timer, but we can override it. Once it comes on in the early evening it stays on until the shop shuts at 11pm. It's the hardest problem to deal with. With a shoplifter you confront them and they either run off or they stay while you wait for the police. But when you have a gang of youths there's always going to be someone who, surrounded by the mates and showing off, will escalate the situation. Even if they ban the use of the device I am going to continue to use it, it's just so important, there's no way I could do without it now. BARRY, TEENAGE CAMPAIGNER Barry from Corby, Northamptonshire, is one of several young people who say they have been affected by the device and are leading the Buzz Off campaign - launched by the National Youth Agency and human rights group Liberty. I don't like it because it is discriminatory towards young people. Because it only targets people under the age of 25, which could mean any young person. What shopkeepers need to consider is young people are their customers as well and they could end up losing a lot of money by moving people along. Because even if they go in a shop they will still hear the device. In our campaign, we are targeting anyone who agrees with the Mosquito device, to try and change their opinion so that they agree with us, because frankly I just think they're terrible. Youth clubs would be a better answer, says Barry If it was aimed at adults then everyone would be upset about it, but because it's young people no-one really cares. There's adults who cause trouble as well, there a lot of anti-social behaviour caused by adults outside pubs when they come out as well. I'd use things like CCTV cameras, because that picks up whoever's causing the problem. And use youth workers, who can go and talk to the young people and find out what they need and see what the problem is. I know that anti-social behaviour is a problem but I just don't believe that Mosquito devices are the way to tackle it. There isn't actually enough to do. Where I live there's a youth club that's only on one night a week. If it was on every night of the week then we'd have more to do. We need to have more youth agencies, more places for young people to go to just sit and have fun with their friends. Play pool, watch TV, play computer games and stuff. I do believe that is a good idea. I think people are being unfair by installing the Mosquito devices because just because there's a group of people, they could be there for any reason. They could be waiting for another friend to come to the shop so they can meet up and go somewhere else. I just don't think adults remember what it's like anymore. Times have changed. Peter H Sent from - a smarter inbox. Sent from - a smarter inbox. Sent from - a smarter inbox. Sent from - a smarter inbox. Sent from - a smarter inbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Smack seems popular at the moment, course everyone does weed........... Peter H fraggle <EBbrewpunx Sent: Wednesday, 13 February, 2008 6:50:17 PMRe: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion i meant in your area...you said there are big drug problems such as? Peter VV Feb 13, 2008 10:19 AM @gro ups.com Re: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion my drug of choice is cafiene..... ....interupts with my spelling though...... Peter H fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>@gro ups.comWednesday, 13 February, 2008 4:29:30 PMRe: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion so, what is the drug of choice/desire in yer neck of the woods then? and earthlink is not letting me edit/clip e-mails again argh..... Peter VV Feb 13, 2008 12:16 AM @gro ups.com Re: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Oh yes, but nothing compares to the 70`s when gangs regularly arranged to meet just to fight with anything from chains , hammers to axes. A hell of a lot of people got sent down in that era (quite rightly too ). Most of the gangs are nothing major now, just kids, the organised crime now is drugs orientated smaller gangs. Peter H heartwerk <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comWednesday, 13 February, 2008 7:48:34 AM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Are you sure you don't have violent gangs - most towns do.Jo@gro ups.com, Peter VV <swpgh01 > wrote:>> Ha,ha,ha,ha. ......... .> Where I live has been in decline so long, must be on its way back up soon! The government couldnt afford / or have the inclination to do anything in communities like mine. Drugs are the main issue round here, worse than ever. At least the gang culture ( violent gang culture ) ended in the 70`s, was a wierd period of town gang against town gang for no reason other than they were from different towns?!> And I was never in any Welsh chapter, thank you Fraggle..... ....... > Peter H > > > > > > fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ ...>> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, 12 February, 2008 8:22:18 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > ok, i know yer kidding, but, thats pretty messed up> so, i guess we all shouldn't care about anything, too little too late...why try, i mean, the pollution is already out there, the wars already started, the cows already on the killing room floor...i'm heading to burger king........ ......... ...> come on peter...> maybe someone should i dunno, ask these so called trouble makers why the hanging out, and what they would rather do> but, i guess you were a model kid and NEVER did anything wrong as a teen, yup, lil welshian angel, helping old ladies across the coal mine and all that there....... ...> > > > > Peter VV > Feb 12, 2008 12:14 PM > @gro ups.com > Re: Mosquito device divides opinion > > > Too many, too late to give them something to do. Would cost a fortune also.> Maybe herd them to a soylent green factory..... ..> > Peter H > > > > > > fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ earthlin k.net>> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, 12 February, 2008 8:11:59 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > > couldn't just give the kids something to do? i guess that would be wrong> lets just move them along somewhere else...> > > > > Peter VV > Feb 12, 2008 11:22 AM > @gro ups.com > Re: Mosquito device divides opinion > > > I dont know, If they stuck them everywhere indiscriminately , then yes. But if they have known trouble spots where kids bored out of their skulls have been known to congregate just to get pissed/high and terrorise the neighbourhood, then why not? Its a lot less harmfull than violent means....> > Peter H > > > > > > jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, 12 February, 2008 7:12:20 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > >  > I think it's disgraceful. Not all youngsters are troublemakers or troublesome, and they should not be treated in such a fashion. How would we feel if there was something similar that affected only 40 year olds or 50 , or 60? or black people or white people etc. etc.> > When I was at school if someone did something wrong and didn't own up every child in the class got a slap on the leg with a ruler. It's a pity we haven't moved on a little in our thinking.> > Jo> - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Tuesday, February 12, 2008 5:56 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > > A high-pitched device that is generally only heard by people under the age of 25 and used to disperse groups of youths is causing controversy. Amid calls in England and Scotland for a ban on the Mosquito device, a shopkeeper and a teenager give their points of view. > ROBERT GOUGH, SHOPKEEPER> > The device has dramatically reduced the problem, says Mr Gough> Robert Gough runs a Spar convenience store in Barry, south Wales. His was the first premises to use the Mosquito device. > We have had the Mosquito for two years. It was tested here. > The problem we have is large gangs of youths that congregate in the entrance way - hanging around, drinking, and I know other narcotics can be involved. > It ranges from them being annoying to intimidating customers and staff to outright physical assault. > One customer has been mugged for their alcohol, and in the time I have been here there have been three occasions where someone has tried to stab me. > The problem comes and goes. When it gets bad it generally lasts for three of four weeks. > At certain times before we counted over 40 people outside the shop. > The Mosquito has reduced the problem massively. > It still happens, but nowhere near the same amount. It has had a positive effect. Customers have praised us for it. > Where they have moved on to I'm not quite sure. > At the moment we have the device on a timer, but we can override it. Once it comes on in the early evening it stays on until the shop shuts at 11pm. > It's the hardest problem to deal with. With a shoplifter you confront them and they either run off or they stay while you wait for the police. > But when you have a gang of youths there's always going to be someone who, surrounded by the mates and showing off, will escalate the situation. > Even if they ban the use of the device I am going to continue to use it, it's just so important, there's no way I could do without it now. > > BARRY, TEENAGE CAMPAIGNER> Barry from Corby, Northamptonshire, is one of several young people who say they have been affected by the device and are leading the Buzz Off campaign - launched by the National Youth Agency and human rights group Liberty. > I don't like it because it is discriminatory towards young people. Because it only targets people under the age of 25, which could mean any young person. > What shopkeepers need to consider is young people are their customers as well and they could end up losing a lot of money by moving people along. > Because even if they go in a shop they will still hear the device. > In our campaign, we are targeting anyone who agrees with the Mosquito device, to try and change their opinion so that they agree with us, because frankly I just think they're terrible. > > Youth clubs would be a better answer, says Barry> If it was aimed at adults then everyone would be upset about it, but because it's young people no-one really cares. > There's adults who cause trouble as well, there a lot of anti-social behaviour caused by adults outside pubs when they come out as well. > I'd use things like CCTV cameras, because that picks up whoever's causing the problem. And use youth workers, who can go and talk to the young people and find out what they need and see what the problem is. > I know that anti-social behaviour is a problem but I just don't believe that Mosquito devices are the way to tackle it. > There isn't actually enough to do. Where I live there's a youth club that's only on one night a week. If it was on every night of the week then we'd have more to do. > We need to have more youth agencies, more places for young people to go to just sit and have fun with their friends. Play pool, watch TV, play computer games and stuff. I do believe that is a good idea. > I think people are being unfair by installing the Mosquito devices because just because there's a group of people, they could be there for any reason. > They could be waiting for another friend to come to the shop so they can meet up and go somewhere else. > I just don't think adults remember what it's like anymore. Times have changed. > > > Peter H > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. > Confucius> > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. > Confucius> > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with For Good http://uk.promotion s./ forgood/> Sent from - a smarter inbox. Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Confucius Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with for Good Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Confucius Sent from - a smarter inbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008  I don't - never have. Jo - Peter VV Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:57 PM Re: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Smack seems popular at the moment, course everyone does weed........... Peter H fraggle <EBbrewpunx Sent: Wednesday, 13 February, 2008 6:50:17 PMRe: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion i meant in your area...you said there are big drug problems such as? Peter VV Feb 13, 2008 10:19 AM @gro ups.com Re: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion my drug of choice is cafiene..... ....interupts with my spelling though...... Peter H fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>@gro ups.comWednesday, 13 February, 2008 4:29:30 PMRe: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion so, what is the drug of choice/desire in yer neck of the woods then? and earthlink is not letting me edit/clip e-mails again argh..... Peter VV Feb 13, 2008 12:16 AM @gro ups.com Re: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Oh yes, but nothing compares to the 70`s when gangs regularly arranged to meet just to fight with anything from chains , hammers to axes. A hell of a lot of people got sent down in that era (quite rightly too ). Most of the gangs are nothing major now, just kids, the organised crime now is drugs orientated smaller gangs. Peter H heartwerk <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comWednesday, 13 February, 2008 7:48:34 AM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Are you sure you don't have violent gangs - most towns do.Jo@gro ups.com, Peter VV <swpgh01 > wrote:>> Ha,ha,ha,ha. ......... .> Where I live has been in decline so long, must be on its way back up soon! The government couldnt afford / or have the inclination to do anything in communities like mine. Drugs are the main issue round here, worse than ever. At least the gang culture ( violent gang culture ) ended in the 70`s, was a wierd period of town gang against town gang for no reason other than they were from different towns?!> And I was never in any Welsh chapter, thank you Fraggle..... ....... > Peter H > > > > > > fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ ...>> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, 12 February, 2008 8:22:18 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > ok, i know yer kidding, but, thats pretty messed up> so, i guess we all shouldn't care about anything, too little too late...why try, i mean, the pollution is already out there, the wars already started, the cows already on the killing room floor...i'm heading to burger king........ ......... ...> come on peter...> maybe someone should i dunno, ask these so called trouble makers why the hanging out, and what they would rather do> but, i guess you were a model kid and NEVER did anything wrong as a teen, yup, lil welshian angel, helping old ladies across the coal mine and all that there....... ...> > > > > Peter VV > Feb 12, 2008 12:14 PM > @gro ups.com > Re: Mosquito device divides opinion > > > Too many, too late to give them something to do. Would cost a fortune also.> Maybe herd them to a soylent green factory..... ..> > Peter H > > > > > > fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ earthlin k.net>> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, 12 February, 2008 8:11:59 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > > couldn't just give the kids something to do? i guess that would be wrong> lets just move them along somewhere else...> > > > > Peter VV > Feb 12, 2008 11:22 AM > @gro ups.com > Re: Mosquito device divides opinion > > > I dont know, If they stuck them everywhere indiscriminately , then yes. But if they have known trouble spots where kids bored out of their skulls have been known to congregate just to get pissed/high and terrorise the neighbourhood, then why not? Its a lot less harmfull than violent means....> > Peter H > > > > > > jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, 12 February, 2008 7:12:20 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > >  > I think it's disgraceful. Not all youngsters are troublemakers or troublesome, and they should not be treated in such a fashion. How would we feel if there was something similar that affected only 40 year olds or 50 , or 60? or black people or white people etc. etc.> > When I was at school if someone did something wrong and didn't own up every child in the class got a slap on the leg with a ruler. It's a pity we haven't moved on a little in our thinking.> > Jo> - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Tuesday, February 12, 2008 5:56 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > > A high-pitched device that is generally only heard by people under the age of 25 and used to disperse groups of youths is causing controversy. Amid calls in England and Scotland for a ban on the Mosquito device, a shopkeeper and a teenager give their points of view. > ROBERT GOUGH, SHOPKEEPER> > The device has dramatically reduced the problem, says Mr Gough> Robert Gough runs a Spar convenience store in Barry, south Wales. His was the first premises to use the Mosquito device. > We have had the Mosquito for two years. It was tested here. > The problem we have is large gangs of youths that congregate in the entrance way - hanging around, drinking, and I know other narcotics can be involved. > It ranges from them being annoying to intimidating customers and staff to outright physical assault. > One customer has been mugged for their alcohol, and in the time I have been here there have been three occasions where someone has tried to stab me. > The problem comes and goes. When it gets bad it generally lasts for three of four weeks. > At certain times before we counted over 40 people outside the shop. > The Mosquito has reduced the problem massively. > It still happens, but nowhere near the same amount. It has had a positive effect. Customers have praised us for it. > Where they have moved on to I'm not quite sure. > At the moment we have the device on a timer, but we can override it. Once it comes on in the early evening it stays on until the shop shuts at 11pm. > It's the hardest problem to deal with. With a shoplifter you confront them and they either run off or they stay while you wait for the police. > But when you have a gang of youths there's always going to be someone who, surrounded by the mates and showing off, will escalate the situation. > Even if they ban the use of the device I am going to continue to use it, it's just so important, there's no way I could do without it now. > > BARRY, TEENAGE CAMPAIGNER> Barry from Corby, Northamptonshire, is one of several young people who say they have been affected by the device and are leading the Buzz Off campaign - launched by the National Youth Agency and human rights group Liberty. > I don't like it because it is discriminatory towards young people. Because it only targets people under the age of 25, which could mean any young person. > What shopkeepers need to consider is young people are their customers as well and they could end up losing a lot of money by moving people along. > Because even if they go in a shop they will still hear the device. > In our campaign, we are targeting anyone who agrees with the Mosquito device, to try and change their opinion so that they agree with us, because frankly I just think they're terrible. > > Youth clubs would be a better answer, says Barry> If it was aimed at adults then everyone would be upset about it, but because it's young people no-one really cares. > There's adults who cause trouble as well, there a lot of anti-social behaviour caused by adults outside pubs when they come out as well. > I'd use things like CCTV cameras, because that picks up whoever's causing the problem. And use youth workers, who can go and talk to the young people and find out what they need and see what the problem is. > I know that anti-social behaviour is a problem but I just don't believe that Mosquito devices are the way to tackle it. > There isn't actually enough to do. Where I live there's a youth club that's only on one night a week. If it was on every night of the week then we'd have more to do. > We need to have more youth agencies, more places for young people to go to just sit and have fun with their friends. Play pool, watch TV, play computer games and stuff. I do believe that is a good idea. > I think people are being unfair by installing the Mosquito devices because just because there's a group of people, they could be there for any reason. > They could be waiting for another friend to come to the shop so they can meet up and go somewhere else. > I just don't think adults remember what it's like anymore. Times have changed. > > > Peter H > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. > Confucius> > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. > Confucius> > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with For Good http://uk.promotion s./ forgood/> Sent from - a smarter inbox. Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Confucius Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with for Good Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Confucius Sent from - a smarter inbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 heroin you say... never pictured wales as a big H place..but,..i guess any place that is depressed and full of poverty and you get a spike in thaqt sort of use Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Confucius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008  Hi Jo You do... I've seen you weeding ;-) BB Peter - jo Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:32 AM Re: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Hi Jo I don't - never have. Jo - Peter VV Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:57 PM Re: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Smack seems popular at the moment, course everyone does weed........... Peter H fraggle <EBbrewpunx Sent: Wednesday, 13 February, 2008 6:50:17 PMRe: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion i meant in your area...you said there are big drug problems such as? Peter VV Feb 13, 2008 10:19 AM @gro ups.com Re: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion my drug of choice is cafiene..... ....interupts with my spelling though...... Peter H fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>@gro ups.comWednesday, 13 February, 2008 4:29:30 PMRe: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion so, what is the drug of choice/desire in yer neck of the woods then? and earthlink is not letting me edit/clip e-mails again argh..... Peter VV Feb 13, 2008 12:16 AM @gro ups.com Re: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Oh yes, but nothing compares to the 70`s when gangs regularly arranged to meet just to fight with anything from chains , hammers to axes. A hell of a lot of people got sent down in that era (quite rightly too ). Most of the gangs are nothing major now, just kids, the organised crime now is drugs orientated smaller gangs. Peter H heartwerk <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comWednesday, 13 February, 2008 7:48:34 AM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Are you sure you don't have violent gangs - most towns do.Jo@gro ups.com, Peter VV <swpgh01 > wrote:>> Ha,ha,ha,ha. ......... .> Where I live has been in decline so long, must be on its way back up soon! The government couldnt afford / or have the inclination to do anything in communities like mine. Drugs are the main issue round here, worse than ever. At least the gang culture ( violent gang culture ) ended in the 70`s, was a wierd period of town gang against town gang for no reason other than they were from different towns?!> And I was never in any Welsh chapter, thank you Fraggle..... ....... > Peter H > > > > > > fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ ...>> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, 12 February, 2008 8:22:18 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > ok, i know yer kidding, but, thats pretty messed up> so, i guess we all shouldn't care about anything, too little too late...why try, i mean, the pollution is already out there, the wars already started, the cows already on the killing room floor...i'm heading to burger king........ ......... ...> come on peter...> maybe someone should i dunno, ask these so called trouble makers why the hanging out, and what they would rather do> but, i guess you were a model kid and NEVER did anything wrong as a teen, yup, lil welshian angel, helping old ladies across the coal mine and all that there....... ...> > > > > Peter VV > Feb 12, 2008 12:14 PM > @gro ups.com > Re: Mosquito device divides opinion > > > Too many, too late to give them something to do. Would cost a fortune also.> Maybe herd them to a soylent green factory..... ..> > Peter H > > > > > > fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ earthlin k.net>> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, 12 February, 2008 8:11:59 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > > couldn't just give the kids something to do? i guess that would be wrong> lets just move them along somewhere else...> > > > > Peter VV > Feb 12, 2008 11:22 AM > @gro ups.com > Re: Mosquito device divides opinion > > > I dont know, If they stuck them everywhere indiscriminately , then yes. But if they have known trouble spots where kids bored out of their skulls have been known to congregate just to get pissed/high and terrorise the neighbourhood, then why not? Its a lot less harmfull than violent means....> > Peter H > > > > > > jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, 12 February, 2008 7:12:20 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > >  > I think it's disgraceful. Not all youngsters are troublemakers or troublesome, and they should not be treated in such a fashion. How would we feel if there was something similar that affected only 40 year olds or 50 , or 60? or black people or white people etc. etc.> > When I was at school if someone did something wrong and didn't own up every child in the class got a slap on the leg with a ruler. It's a pity we haven't moved on a little in our thinking.> > Jo> - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Tuesday, February 12, 2008 5:56 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > > A high-pitched device that is generally only heard by people under the age of 25 and used to disperse groups of youths is causing controversy. Amid calls in England and Scotland for a ban on the Mosquito device, a shopkeeper and a teenager give their points of view. > ROBERT GOUGH, SHOPKEEPER> > The device has dramatically reduced the problem, says Mr Gough> Robert Gough runs a Spar convenience store in Barry, south Wales. His was the first premises to use the Mosquito device. > We have had the Mosquito for two years. It was tested here. > The problem we have is large gangs of youths that congregate in the entrance way - hanging around, drinking, and I know other narcotics can be involved. > It ranges from them being annoying to intimidating customers and staff to outright physical assault. > One customer has been mugged for their alcohol, and in the time I have been here there have been three occasions where someone has tried to stab me. > The problem comes and goes. When it gets bad it generally lasts for three of four weeks. > At certain times before we counted over 40 people outside the shop. > The Mosquito has reduced the problem massively. > It still happens, but nowhere near the same amount. It has had a positive effect. Customers have praised us for it. > Where they have moved on to I'm not quite sure. > At the moment we have the device on a timer, but we can override it. Once it comes on in the early evening it stays on until the shop shuts at 11pm. > It's the hardest problem to deal with. With a shoplifter you confront them and they either run off or they stay while you wait for the police. > But when you have a gang of youths there's always going to be someone who, surrounded by the mates and showing off, will escalate the situation. > Even if they ban the use of the device I am going to continue to use it, it's just so important, there's no way I could do without it now. > > BARRY, TEENAGE CAMPAIGNER> Barry from Corby, Northamptonshire, is one of several young people who say they have been affected by the device and are leading the Buzz Off campaign - launched by the National Youth Agency and human rights group Liberty. > I don't like it because it is discriminatory towards young people. Because it only targets people under the age of 25, which could mean any young person. > What shopkeepers need to consider is young people are their customers as well and they could end up losing a lot of money by moving people along. > Because even if they go in a shop they will still hear the device. > In our campaign, we are targeting anyone who agrees with the Mosquito device, to try and change their opinion so that they agree with us, because frankly I just think they're terrible. > > Youth clubs would be a better answer, says Barry> If it was aimed at adults then everyone would be upset about it, but because it's young people no-one really cares. > There's adults who cause trouble as well, there a lot of anti-social behaviour caused by adults outside pubs when they come out as well. > I'd use things like CCTV cameras, because that picks up whoever's causing the problem. And use youth workers, who can go and talk to the young people and find out what they need and see what the problem is. > I know that anti-social behaviour is a problem but I just don't believe that Mosquito devices are the way to tackle it. > There isn't actually enough to do. Where I live there's a youth club that's only on one night a week. If it was on every night of the week then we'd have more to do. > We need to have more youth agencies, more places for young people to go to just sit and have fun with their friends. Play pool, watch TV, play computer games and stuff. I do believe that is a good idea. > I think people are being unfair by installing the Mosquito devices because just because there's a group of people, they could be there for any reason. > They could be waiting for another friend to come to the shop so they can meet up and go somewhere else. > I just don't think adults remember what it's like anymore. Times have changed. > > > Peter H > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. > Confucius> > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. > Confucius> > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with For Good http://uk.promotion s./ forgood/> Sent from - a smarter inbox. Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Confucius Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with for Good Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Confucius Sent from - a smarter inbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Never used to be, but then when I was young you never had 14 year olds smoking weed either......... Peter H fraggle <EBbrewpunx Sent: Thursday, 14 February, 2008 12:35:47 AMRe: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion heroin you say... never pictured wales as a big H place..but,. .i guess any place that is depressed and full of poverty and you get a spike in thaqt sort of use Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Confucius Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with for Good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 yeah, but that was back before the invention of the wheel...... obviously certain habits are much different depending on where you live... if i was to guess, i would say 50% or more of 14yr olds smoked pot when i was that age.... Peter VV Feb 14, 2008 9:05 AM Re: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Never used to be, but then when I was young you never had 14 year olds smoking weed either......... Peter H fraggle <EBbrewpunx (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> Sent: Thursday, 14 February, 2008 12:35:47 AMRe: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion heroin you say... never pictured wales as a big H place..but,. .i guess any place that is depressed and full of poverty and you get a spike in thaqt sort of useReal knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Confucius Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with for Good Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Confucius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Well, we are obviously 20+years behind you then are`nt we? Peter H fraggle <EBbrewpunx Sent: Thursday, 14 February, 2008 5:08:29 PMRe: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion yeah, but that was back before the invention of the wheel...... obviously certain habits are much different depending on where you live... if i was to guess, i would say 50% or more of 14yr olds smoked pot when i was that age.... Peter VV Feb 14, 2008 9:05 AM @gro ups.com Re: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Never used to be, but then when I was young you never had 14 year olds smoking weed either...... ... Peter H fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>@gro ups.comThursday, 14 February, 2008 12:35:47 AMRe: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion heroin you say... never pictured wales as a big H place..but,. .i guess any place that is depressed and full of poverty and you get a spike in thaqt sort of useReal knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Confucius Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with for Good Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Confucius Sent from - a smarter inbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008  LOL - Hi Peter You're right - every spring and summer. BBNJo - metalscarab Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:13 AM Re: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion  Hi Jo You do... I've seen you weeding ;-) BB Peter - jo Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:32 AM Re: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Hi Jo I don't - never have. Jo - Peter VV Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:57 PM Re: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Smack seems popular at the moment, course everyone does weed........... Peter H fraggle <EBbrewpunx Sent: Wednesday, 13 February, 2008 6:50:17 PMRe: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion i meant in your area...you said there are big drug problems such as? Peter VV Feb 13, 2008 10:19 AM @gro ups.com Re: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion my drug of choice is cafiene..... ....interupts with my spelling though...... Peter H fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>@gro ups.comWednesday, 13 February, 2008 4:29:30 PMRe: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion so, what is the drug of choice/desire in yer neck of the woods then? and earthlink is not letting me edit/clip e-mails again argh..... Peter VV Feb 13, 2008 12:16 AM @gro ups.com Re: Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Oh yes, but nothing compares to the 70`s when gangs regularly arranged to meet just to fight with anything from chains , hammers to axes. A hell of a lot of people got sent down in that era (quite rightly too ). Most of the gangs are nothing major now, just kids, the organised crime now is drugs orientated smaller gangs. Peter H heartwerk <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comWednesday, 13 February, 2008 7:48:34 AM Re: Mosquito device divides opinion Are you sure you don't have violent gangs - most towns do.Jo@gro ups.com, Peter VV <swpgh01 > wrote:>> Ha,ha,ha,ha. ......... .> Where I live has been in decline so long, must be on its way back up soon! The government couldnt afford / or have the inclination to do anything in communities like mine. Drugs are the main issue round here, worse than ever. At least the gang culture ( violent gang culture ) ended in the 70`s, was a wierd period of town gang against town gang for no reason other than they were from different towns?!> And I was never in any Welsh chapter, thank you Fraggle..... ....... > Peter H > > > > > > fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ ...>> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, 12 February, 2008 8:22:18 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > ok, i know yer kidding, but, thats pretty messed up> so, i guess we all shouldn't care about anything, too little too late...why try, i mean, the pollution is already out there, the wars already started, the cows already on the killing room floor...i'm heading to burger king........ ......... ...> come on peter...> maybe someone should i dunno, ask these so called trouble makers why the hanging out, and what they would rather do> but, i guess you were a model kid and NEVER did anything wrong as a teen, yup, lil welshian angel, helping old ladies across the coal mine and all that there....... ...> > > > > Peter VV > Feb 12, 2008 12:14 PM > @gro ups.com > Re: Mosquito device divides opinion > > > Too many, too late to give them something to do. Would cost a fortune also.> Maybe herd them to a soylent green factory..... ..> > Peter H > > > > > > fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ earthlin k.net>> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, 12 February, 2008 8:11:59 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > > couldn't just give the kids something to do? i guess that would be wrong> lets just move them along somewhere else...> > > > > Peter VV > Feb 12, 2008 11:22 AM > @gro ups.com > Re: Mosquito device divides opinion > > > I dont know, If they stuck them everywhere indiscriminately , then yes. But if they have known trouble spots where kids bored out of their skulls have been known to congregate just to get pissed/high and terrorise the neighbourhood, then why not? Its a lot less harmfull than violent means....> > Peter H > > > > > > jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, 12 February, 2008 7:12:20 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > >  > I think it's disgraceful. Not all youngsters are troublemakers or troublesome, and they should not be treated in such a fashion. How would we feel if there was something similar that affected only 40 year olds or 50 , or 60? or black people or white people etc. etc.> > When I was at school if someone did something wrong and didn't own up every child in the class got a slap on the leg with a ruler. It's a pity we haven't moved on a little in our thinking.> > Jo> - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Tuesday, February 12, 2008 5:56 PM> Re: Mosquito device divides opinion> > > A high-pitched device that is generally only heard by people under the age of 25 and used to disperse groups of youths is causing controversy. Amid calls in England and Scotland for a ban on the Mosquito device, a shopkeeper and a teenager give their points of view. > ROBERT GOUGH, SHOPKEEPER> > The device has dramatically reduced the problem, says Mr Gough> Robert Gough runs a Spar convenience store in Barry, south Wales. His was the first premises to use the Mosquito device. > We have had the Mosquito for two years. It was tested here. > The problem we have is large gangs of youths that congregate in the entrance way - hanging around, drinking, and I know other narcotics can be involved. > It ranges from them being annoying to intimidating customers and staff to outright physical assault. > One customer has been mugged for their alcohol, and in the time I have been here there have been three occasions where someone has tried to stab me. > The problem comes and goes. When it gets bad it generally lasts for three of four weeks. > At certain times before we counted over 40 people outside the shop. > The Mosquito has reduced the problem massively. > It still happens, but nowhere near the same amount. It has had a positive effect. Customers have praised us for it. > Where they have moved on to I'm not quite sure. > At the moment we have the device on a timer, but we can override it. Once it comes on in the early evening it stays on until the shop shuts at 11pm. > It's the hardest problem to deal with. With a shoplifter you confront them and they either run off or they stay while you wait for the police. > But when you have a gang of youths there's always going to be someone who, surrounded by the mates and showing off, will escalate the situation. > Even if they ban the use of the device I am going to continue to use it, it's just so important, there's no way I could do without it now. > > BARRY, TEENAGE CAMPAIGNER> Barry from Corby, Northamptonshire, is one of several young people who say they have been affected by the device and are leading the Buzz Off campaign - launched by the National Youth Agency and human rights group Liberty. > I don't like it because it is discriminatory towards young people. Because it only targets people under the age of 25, which could mean any young person. > What shopkeepers need to consider is young people are their customers as well and they could end up losing a lot of money by moving people along. > Because even if they go in a shop they will still hear the device. > In our campaign, we are targeting anyone who agrees with the Mosquito device, to try and change their opinion so that they agree with us, because frankly I just think they're terrible. > > Youth clubs would be a better answer, says Barry> If it was aimed at adults then everyone would be upset about it, but because it's young people no-one really cares. > There's adults who cause trouble as well, there a lot of anti-social behaviour caused by adults outside pubs when they come out as well. > I'd use things like CCTV cameras, because that picks up whoever's causing the problem. And use youth workers, who can go and talk to the young people and find out what they need and see what the problem is. > I know that anti-social behaviour is a problem but I just don't believe that Mosquito devices are the way to tackle it. > There isn't actually enough to do. Where I live there's a youth club that's only on one night a week. If it was on every night of the week then we'd have more to do. > We need to have more youth agencies, more places for young people to go to just sit and have fun with their friends. Play pool, watch TV, play computer games and stuff. I do believe that is a good idea. > I think people are being unfair by installing the Mosquito devices because just because there's a group of people, they could be there for any reason. > They could be waiting for another friend to come to the shop so they can meet up and go somewhere else. > I just don't think adults remember what it's like anymore. Times have changed. > > > Peter H > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. > Confucius> > > > > > Sent from - a smarter inbox. > > Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. > Confucius> > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with For Good http://uk.promotion s./ forgood/> Sent from - a smarter inbox. Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Confucius Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with for Good Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Confucius Sent from - a smarter inbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.