Guest guest Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 You mentioned beer?Do we also have this problem with beer?Any vegan-safe brands of beer ?--- On Sun, 6/22/08, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:fraggle <EBbrewpunxRe: My Vegan Hell Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 2:05 PM sulfites are added to wines to prevent bacterial and microbial growth within the wine, and to impede oxidation it's basically added to wine to make it last longer. all wines contain some sulfites (they are natural in grapes), but most wineries add sulfites for the above. as i said, finings don't have to be listed. same as isinglass in beer. since it's technically in the end product, its not listed. wines can be fined with a variety of non-animal products, such as bentonite (a clay) Beatriz Jun 22, 2008 10:20 AM @gro ups.com Re: My Vegan Hell does this stuff: gelatine, albumin... come listed on the label?I just checked a bottle I have here, it just says it contains sulfites, nothing else..The real stuff, I mean good quality wine shouldnt contain anything beyond grapejuice, and ,ok preservatives. No colourings, no flavourings. . and what should the gelatine do there--- On Sun, 6/22/08, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> wrote: fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>Re: My Vegan Hell@gro ups.comSunday, June 22, 2008, 1:01 PM some wines use isinglass, some use gelatin, some use egg albumen, etc....there' s a host of wines that have some animal product in em unfortunately look for wines listed as vegan, organic, or kosher. Peter VV Jun 22, 2008 9:20 AM @gro ups.com Re: My Vegan Hell Its the fining process, where they use isinglass ( swim bladder from a fish )or blood to clear the wine. Thee are some vegan wines out there , most come from S Africa or Australia, & USA. Peter vv Peter <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSunday, 22 June, 2008 9:34:54 AMRe: My Vegan Hell Hi Beatriz Most wine is made using a variety of additives, many of which are from animal based sources. I don't drink, so have limited knowledge of this sort of thing, but I know that most red wine, in particular, isn't vegan! BB Peter - Beatriz @gro ups.com Sunday, June 22, 2008 12:32 AM Re: My Vegan Hell Now, what the heck is vegan wine??? :oAs far as I know wine is made with grapes, which are pressed and fermented.What am I missing here?Thanks,Beatriz--- On Sat, 6/21/08, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote: Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com>Re: My Vegan Hell@gro ups.comSaturday, June 21, 2008, 3:15 PM Jay Rayner struggles through a week on a vegan diet June 20, 2008 1:25 PM Jay Rayner, vegan extraordinaire, prepares a meat-free, dairy-free feast. Photograph by Romas Foord My first thought, after taking the call from my editor was: what did I ever do to hurt her? After that it occurred to me that if, as she had asked, I went vegan for a week, I would at least be able to claim experience whenever I was explaining why I thought such a diet was the devil's work. Plus, as a journalist, I could see the news value. Only a week or so back, we were debating the merits of the vegan diet here on Word of Mouth. Coincidentally I also reviewed a vegan restaurant recently. I even managed to find a few things to like. So, one Tuesday, I headed off to the centre of London for a huge steak, at the rather wonderful Albemarle, and then embarked on my vegan purdah. You'll see, if you read the piece, that I faced some interesting and curious complications. For me the most interesting issue was the profile of the food I made for myself. I have long said that I abhor any meat free cookery, which tries to mimic the meat eating world. I would have no truck with 'Fakin', the bacon substitute. I would have nothing to do with Quorn or veggie burgers or any of that bizarre stuff carrying the name of the sainted Linda McCartney. Anything I cooked - including at a dinner party for eight - had to be food which just happened to be vegan. Perhaps inevitably I found myself heading down the ethnic route. A lot of noodles. A lot of miso and sweet chilli sauce. Stir fries. Curries. I did eat a little smoked tofu, but there's only so much of that I could take. My (first) downfall came via a surprising area: nuts. I thought that nuts would be my friend but it was not so: It is towards the end of my first 24 hours as a vegan, at the point when I discover I have already failed, that I begin to despair. How was I supposed to know there would be dairy products in a bag of nuts? Who the hell decided that putting dried milk powder in with the lemon and coriander flavoured cashews and macadamias was a good idea? Jay's Thai curry, lovingly prepared for his guests and himself. Photograph: Romas Foord Below are some edited extracts from the piece so that you can decide for yourself whether I was conscientious in my observance. Day one: I had bought rice noodles and smoked tofu and sweet chilli sauce and spring onions and that evening I use them to make a reasonable stir fry. I even decide that smoked tofu, with its dense, almost meaty texture, isn't half bad. The next morning I decide that soya milk and soya yoghurt are just about OK on my All-Bran, even allowing for the slight aftertaste of sawdust. At lunchtime I have more noodles and smoked tofu in miso soup. I eat fresh fruit. Later, I make a rather good Thai green curry full of roasted mushrooms and baby corn cobs and caramelised onions. It is fabulous; rich and dense and spicy and fulfilling and entirely vegan. Until, that is, I study the ingredients on the jar of Thai green curry paste: it's got crushed shrimp in it. Bloody hell. This isn't fair. I bought it at the uber veggie, all-the-wheatgrass- you-can-eat health-food shop. Day two (the restaurant trip): I have some falafel made from broad beans which are really just the victory of the deep-fat fryer ... I follow that with aubergine teriyaki which is nothing of the sort. Teriyaki suggests a sweet, sticky, dark soy-based sauce. This is a roll of chargrilled aubergine stuffed with ground-down mushrooms and something called pesto, which isn't. On the side are some stir-fried noodles with vegetables. Pretty much the same thing I made for myself a few nights before. I reach a conclusion: ethnic is the default position for the vegan. At the end I have a vegan rhubarb crumble, with a topping like cement and vegan custard (a combination of cornflour, water and flavourings) . Day three: There's another problem that's bugging me: finding something to eat when I am outside the house. In the world of the cheese sandwich, the vegan options are few and far between ... The solution? Go ethnic. But of course. I pull up a stool at a branch of Yo! Sushi and give thanks for the Japanese. A few Japanese pickle maki rolls and vegetable dumplings later the job is done. I am fed. Day four: Damn it all. I just ate some cow ... But I have started filming an edition of Channel 4's Dispatches, about the rising cost of food. (screens Monday night.) We are shooting a sequence in a Chinese restaurant ... I do my thing for the camera, explaining about China's growing beef habit and, to illustrate the point, pick up a cube of meat with my chopsticks. It dangles before my lips ... we all know the sequence doesn't work unless, at the end, I pop the meat into my mouth. And I do. It's delicious. It's the best piece of beef I have ever tasted. Later (the dinner party): The starter is easy, if labour intensive. It is asparagus season. I marinate armfuls in a mixture of soy, lemon juice and maple syrup, then chargrill them ahead of time on the skillet. There will be bowls of olives and marinated artichokes and a few Kettle Chips because, well, what's not to like about deep-fried potato and salt? The main course is more of a challenge because I don't want to succumb to the ethnic clichés, but nothing else seems to work. In the end I make a powerful Thai red curry, using a paste that contains no shrimps, and fill it with roast butternut squash and taut little Thai aubergines and coriander. We finish with a huge platter of fresh fruit, a plate of my wife's chocolate-chip biscotti, made to an entirely vegan recipe, and some vegan wine. Day five: It is Sunday and, coincidentally, the restaurant I have reviewed for the Observer is a smartypants vegan joint called Saf in London's Shoreditch, which makes a weird version of cheese out of nuts tortured to within an inch of their lives, and where a plate of mushed-up, stacked vegetables is called a lasagne. It is nothing of the sort. Later I phone Heston Blumenthal of the Fat Duck for some insight. I tell him what I am doing and there is a long hiss of breath from the end of the phone. He has known me quite a while, and understands my attachment to animals, particularly dead cooked ones. I want to know why the food I have been eating has been so much less satisfying. He tells me it's because it's low in fat. 'Flavour molecules dissolve in fat,' he says, 'so you're not getting the flavour hit you're used to.' I shouldn't feel bad about this. 'We are genetically hard-wired to crave fat,' he says, 'because it's a source of energy.' Going vegan, doing it properly, is therefore not something you can embark upon casually. I decide five days is enough. My wife asks me what I'm planning for my vegan dinner that evening. I say, 'Spare ribs and chorizo from the Portuguese grill house up the road.' The question is, did I miss a trick? I would genuinely appreciate some ideas from the rest of you for food I could have eaten. Remember the rules: no dairy, no eggs, no honey and, obviously enough, no meat or fish. The no pretend meat rule is mine. Perhaps you want to argue I'm wrong on that one. Please educate me and, in the process, the rest of us. Comments Please note: In order to post a comment you need to be registered and signed in for guardian.co. uk blogs. You can register here. catlily Comment No. 1173643 June 20 13:46 Definitely with you on the fake meat things - I just don't see the point of it. I am, however, quite surprised you didn't realise that Thai curry paste would have either shrimp paste or those tiny dried crushed shrimp in. And what about the fish sauce? Did you eschew that? I think North African/Middle Eastern food is very vegan friendly especially when serving a lot of people - there are enough vegan dips, falafel, that kind of thing, then salads, a big vegetable terrine, couscous.... easy. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. catlily Comment No. 1173653 June 20 13:48 Whoops, meant to say tagine, not terrine! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Intrigued Comment No. 1173675 June 20 13:52 Indian food and particulary south Indian is vegan-friendly. My wife went vegan for lent and we seemed to survive. Suprised to see that you didn't try rice and lentils (dhal) -- a vegan staple across South Asia! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. billbushell Comment No. 1173797 June 20 14:16 shouldn't you read the label BEFORE you use them? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. TimHayward Comment No. 1173835 June 20 14:24 I just keep looking back at the top of this post to the tags... Jay Rayner/Vegetarian To think that I would live to see it. I think I'll have it made into a tee-shirt. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. SusanSmillie Comment No. 1173913 June 20 14:40 I like your kitchen cabinets Jay! The dairy powder in stuff - why do they do it?!! It drives me mad. I went off dairy for a while (dry skin, long story) and it totally astonished me the amount of stuff dairy gets added to. Completely unnecessarily - I found some had even been added to a perfectly good salsa for Christ's sake! It must drive vegans mad. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. arianz Comment No. 1173949 June 20 14:47 Jay, I agree with you. Fake meats are just not a good idea... plus they require careful label reading--Quorn, for instance, has egg in it!Foods you could have eaten... well, heaps! Salads, grains, all the greens you liked (especially in this gorgeous season!), pulses on tap, tofu and obviously, fruit. On the point of eating out, many sandwich shops stock vegan fillings: usually, stuff like hummous is vegan, and so are the various broad bean, mushroom, tomato pates and so on. The trick is asking clairification while you order... qeustions like whether there is any dairy or eggs or things like that in vegetarian options and so on.Among the things I truly recommend, there are lentils, of various types, ranging from red split to black urad to Puys; seasonal vegetables such as broccoli, cauliflower, spinach...; the good ol'tattie! :-); cereals, like millet, buckwheat, quinoa...; and obviously tofu!I so look forward to reading your vegan restaurant experience!Arianz :-) Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. rdpmackie Comment No. 1174006 June 20 14:59 What you've experienced is the hardest week of being Vegan...the first. My wife and I went from washing our steaks down with meatshakes one evening to being Vegan the next morning, and faced a similar challenge: "What the hell are we going to eat?!" It took us a few weeks to get things sorted out, but much longer to become really satisfied with the completeness of our menu. This is simply because (as you found out) there's animal in everything! Why in blazes is there milk in salt and vinegar chips?? But now, shopping, eating, and cooking are all nearly as simple and as mindless as before, BUT flavor for flavor, satisfaction for satisfaction our Vegan food far surpasses what we ate as omnivores. We have figured out how to replicate all of our favorite dishes that we ate before the change. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. celticmiller Comment No. 1174027 June 20 15:05 Heston's remark about the fat in food making it more satisfying is interesting. Do you think that's why SAF went to all that bother with the fake cheese? Nuts are OK as a snack, but they can get pretty boring after a while. And making them into a main meal conjours images of Tom Lehrer's "penutbutter stew". If you didn't mind the smoked tofu you could have tried coating it in breadcrumbs and deep frying it - one way to up the fat content!! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. bioisy Comment No. 1174048 June 20 15:09 It takes a while for your sense of taste to adjust to a meat/fish/dairy free diet. But, and you have to trust me on this one, eventually even cheese will taste too fatty and intense (even cheese! I know! And I come from a cheese loving background!) . I've been a happy vegan for three years now (nearly to the day), cooking is more fun that ever and I have even managed to bake a lovely lemony cheese-free tofu(cheese) cake that works on its own right! And yes, I do hate fake meats as well as a principle. Vegan cooking just takes re-thinking and some trial and error, but I imagine any cooking experience does at first. And the net is a great place to look for info. Just don't make veganism look like a chore, it realt isn't! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. handee Comment No. 1174080 June 20 15:16 I did 2 years vegan (sorted out my eczema a treat). Tofu is best fried - it's that fat thing again. A good nut loaf is a wonderful thing, and roast dinners for me have always been more about the veggies than the meat even now I'm back being omnivorous, so a good roast nut loaf with bright green spring greens and veggie roast potatoes is a winner. Back to the ethnic food: Guacamole, bean chilli, tortillas/rice, salsa is a good combination. Curries (dahl, chana dahl, and the amazing curry-in-a-pancake masala dhosa) are great. Japanese noodles and Thai style stir fries (but make your own Thai pastes, those pesky shrimps get everywhere) are good staples. Rice salads -- this one is a fave http://www.plantsci ences.ucdavis. edu/uccerice/ EDITOR/bombay_ r.htmare good. Pasta with tomato based sauces (putanesca style) are fine; lasagne is a bit more of a bother because vegan cheese doesn't do the melty thing that you need it to. And shame on you for not reading the labels - you can't say you went vegan unless you did the label reading thing; you can spot new vegans in supermarkets because they take so long checking everything is OK. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. LittleShu Comment No. 1174085 June 20 15:17 Oh, Jay. Jay, Jay, Jay, Jay, Jay. Jay. It's all so much more complicated than this. You write, "..a few Kettle Chips because, well, what's not to like about deep-fried potato and salt?" This is what's not to like, Jay and my fellow Guardian readers:http://www.guardian .co.uk/business/ 2007/oct/ 09/money. retail Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. dhar Comment No. 1174086 June 20 15:18 Being vegan is not just about taste. If you can't raise your eyes above the sensation on your palate, you'll never understand vegans. Also, a new diet is something you need to get used to, so you should make allowances for that when trying them out. I'm not vegan, but I did stop drinking milk quite a few years ago - long story - and at first I hated soya milk/rice milk/hazelnut and almond milk. But now I like them all, and cow's milk tastes sickly to me. It's like an English-only speaker going to Spain and saying "my week speaking Spanish", and then coming to the conclusion that it's all gibberish. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. ravishing Comment No. 1174131 June 20 15:30 Vegans, they are being nice to you. Offering recipes, pointers, tips---sympathy. They like you. World order is being subverted. Now what are you going to do? Kill a few cats? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. CaroleBristol Comment No. 1174139 June 20 15:32 I think you lasted about as long as I would Jay. In fact I wouldn't last even that long because I cannot abide soya "milk" and I do not function without a strong mug of tea with milk in the morning and there is no way I'd eat cereals without proper milk either. I have to say that I often have meatless meals in the evenings during the week; tabbouleh is a staple at this time of the year and I love avocado and tomato salsa type things and also vegetable curries and dhals. My problem would be avoiding yogourt with the curry though, I love raita with dhal and I like feta in my tabbouleh or a tzakziki type of thing with it. To be honest though, even if I managed Monday to Thursday with a vegan menu, by Friday I'd be heading for the butcher for a thick cut ribeye steak and I'd probably eat it raw before getting it home and griddling it, I'd be that desperate. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. seventh Comment No. 1174141 June 20 15:32 [Deleted by moderator] Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. dhammadinna Comment No. 1174154 June 20 15:37 If you had been thinking more of the animals who suffer to produce meat and dairy, you would have been willing to persist and to find vegan foods that you like. You seem so proud of going back to spare ribs -- like, all this hippy stuff is proven wrong and you can be 'normal' again. It's a culture thing. At least you are trying to get advice on a good vegan diet. I hope you take some of it. On my experience (25 years vegan) you will find that your diet is much more agreeable without animal products. But above all, think of the animals. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. TwoOneStu Comment No. 1174168 June 20 15:39 I am not a vegan or a vegetarian. I have no dietary restrictions whatever. However, I think the argument against 'fake meat' is unbelievably stupid.You could just as easily ask, if people like meat so much, why do they have to make it into sausages, apice it, and grill it til it no longer resembles the pig it came off of any more than it resembles a soybean plant. Why wouldn't someone want quorn or tofu or tempeh 'sausages' or hot doges or burgers? It's only silly tradition that says we make such things out of meat. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. gondwanaland Comment No. 1174193 June 20 15:43 [Deleted by moderator] Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. squizzla Comment No. 1174205 June 20 15:45 if you're making a thai curry, coconut milk will give you the richness (and the fat) that you are missing - and tastes lovely with all those spices! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. IKNOWNOTHING Comment No. 1174236 June 20 15:53 Jay; you have to try Trinidadian: Roti, stuffed with curry pumpkin; garlic bodi (string beans); doubles (fried bake with chana curry & extras), to name three essentials. Oh, and pepper (red-hot chilli sauce) with everything except for ice cream. Once the flirtation with vegan is done, get stuck into the goat or shrimp curries.Best place I know is opposite Clapham North, not naming names, but you can't miss it... In fact, sod it, I'm going for doubles myself. Right now. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. alansynnott Comment No. 1174256 June 20 15:56 I, as a committed omnivore, would like to point out that museli (especially the low-sugar stuff) is best consumed with good quality apple juice instead of milk. That is all. Carry on. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. TonyChinnery Comment No. 1174260 June 20 15:57 I don't see why you're making such a big deal out of it. I've been nearly 'vegan' for 25 years (nearly because I don't eat dairy or meat but fish once a week). Just eat what you normally would but minus the meat, milk and cheese. And use olive oil instead of butter. There is a huge variety in the vegetable world, much more than meat, so there's no shortage of variety. The important thing is not to kill the vegetables by overcooking. Lightly steamed broccoli and other veg, with a drop of olive oil added on the plate. eaten with rice, potatoes or cus-cus (I don't know how you spell that). What more do you want?Of course in Italy where I live they still have real vegetables instead of the identically tasteless, cloned imitation stuff they sell in supermarkets in Britain. That's in fact the most important thing. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. kristofnews Comment No. 1174325 June 20 16:11 I enjoy a 100% plant based diet, mostly wholefood and organic when I can afford to -_^ My main motivation is my taste (I'm not an activist or an eco-freak... ) and the great pleasure to eat solely the food that I prefer. I have to say that I'm intolerant to milk which explains mainly why I'm turning away from any kind of milk product. You started with a very interesting point! In any industrial food products, you'll find milk, lactose or whey protein... and a multitude of other animal products (like gelatin, some food additives).. . It sounds crazy but it's really an issue. After having taken hours reading the composition of each product before picking one... it becomes quite clear that looking for non-processed food is a lot cheaper, easier and faster. As soon as you go for preparing your food, than you will discover a whole new approach of cooking... even though it's largely based on type of preparation that were well known some years back. Asia has a lot to offer (like the myriad of products based on soja bean). It's interesting to discover that you're now looking for a product as a whole and at every stage of its life-cycle (from sprout to fruits...). Plants are a great source of inspiration. .. and internet is offering great opportunities to find and share ideas, receipts... you'll discover a full range of new products and new ways to prepare them! To make a long story short, once you do something just because you love to do so, it becomes a lot easier... you follow your inspiration, your taste and every things goes find And don't worry about any kind of lack of vitamins or protein... once you have a balance diet, you just don't need any supplement. I'm running between 60-80km per week, enjoying trail running without having any kind of health issue. I've never be in a better shape actually... BUT please!!! don't go for a vegan diet if you're not inspired but it. Food is a vital form of individual freedom... so enjoy what you're eating. Chris Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. brownelf Comment No. 1174348 June 20 16:18 To the person above who claims that South Indian food is very vegan friendly -- um, no. I'm not anti-vegan, and have very happily (even unwittingly) gone vegan days at a time, but I'm South Indian and I have to tell you that yoghurt -- and milk-based sweets -- are an integral part of the cuisine. The traditional South Indian meal is 3 courses: rasam (a thin, usually lentil-based soup); rice or rice pancakes with various veg. curries etc.; and then always, always, yoghurt to finish. With rice if you like it that way, or plain, or a thin buttermilky verion to drink, but it's essential and said to help digestion. I point this out because I don't think there is any recorded evidence of a truly vegan food culture at any time in food history. Which is not to say that is a bad thing -- just that the argument that it's more "natural"/historica lly common for people to be vegan is, as far as I know, bunk. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. OrangeZonker Comment No. 1174374 June 20 16:25 Dhamma but above all we do think of the animals; roasted , fried baked, yummy, its what god made them for.. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. PowerValve Comment No. 1174401 June 20 16:32 Has nobody mentioned seitan? Much tastier than tofu, especially if you make it yourself - have a gander at http://vegetarian. about.com/ od/cookingtipsto ols/ss/HowToSeit an.htm Most vegetables are delicious if cooked properly, not the british boiled to death versions. It's probably why asparagus is so highly rated, being so expensive that people go to the effort to prepare it correctly, although sprouts, broccoli or cauliflower boiled for 5 minutes are just as tasty. For something simple, try chick peas with fried onions, fresh coriander chinese cabbage and ginger, serve with boiled spuds and smother the lot with olive oil. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. PowerValve Comment No. 1174419 June 20 16:35 re orange zonker, presumably God made you to post pathetic comments on blogs, not His greatest hour. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. badgerwoman Comment No. 1174425 June 20 16:37 Try being vegan if you have a wheat allergy! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. PowerValve Comment No. 1174450 June 20 16:41 re orange zonker, presumably God made you to post pathetic comments on blogs, not His greatest hour. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. LeftSaidThread Comment No. 1174480 June 20 16:48 I was vegetarian for about 20 years, from the age of six or seven. I managed to convince myself I wasn't missing out until I went back to meat and realised it is not replaceable and substitutes are rubbish. I feel more healthy, have more energy and have a greater selection of food to choose from. I still love my vegetables and don't eat much red meat as is too heavy. There is no such thing as cruelty free food. Think how many small mammals die whenever a wheat field is harvested. And people die every day as a indirect result of other's way of life. Plus, the animals you eat would never even have existed had people not chosen to eat them; providing they have a reasonably happy life (free-range) - it must surely be better than no life at all - but that's a philosophical point I guess. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. openKetchup Comment No. 1174503 June 20 16:55 What's the problem with meat-free substitutes? It's very simple: Some vegetarians/ vegans like the taste of meat but chose not to eat it for other reasons (morals, environment, health etc...). Why would such a person choose to deprive themselves of meat-free substitutes? I can understand if people think these substitutes are 'strange' or perhaps 'wrong', in their own way, but I can't understand people to fail to see the point of them. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. openKetchup Comment No. 1174522 June 20 16:59 What's the problem with meat-free substitutes? It's very simple: Some vegetarians/ vegans like the taste of meat but chose not to eat it for other reasons (morals, environment, health etc...). Why would such a person choose to deprive themselves of meat-free substitutes? I can understand if people think these substitutes are 'strange' or perhaps 'wrong', in their own way, but I can't understand people to fail to see the point of them. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. openKetchup Comment No. 1174524 June 20 16:59 What's the problem with meat-free substitutes? It's very simple: Some vegetarians/ vegans like the taste of meat but chose not to eat it for other reasons (morals, environment, health etc...). Why would such a person choose to deprive themselves of meat-free substitutes? I can understand if people think these substitutes are 'strange' or perhaps 'wrong', in their own way, but I can't understand people to fail to see the point of them. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. RERogers Comment No. 1174542 June 20 17:04 The nutty side of veganism is interesting. They would seem to be the obvious place to go for fat and protein but nut cheese does not sound overly appetizing. I'm surprised peanuts didn't figure more heavily, the satisfaction in peanut butter is one all children can attest to. During a year spent in Zambia I lived vegan by necessity rather than choice, as meat and dairy were virtually none existent in the bush. The loss of satisfying fatty food was far less after the "groundnut" season. Pretty much every stir-fry dish, even very simple cabbage and onions, becomes far more interesting and satisfying if you add a handful or two of peanut flour. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Leischa Comment No. 1174564 June 20 17:12 This is a good, and unsually open-minded, article. I've been vegetarian for more than 10 years, and vegan for about 5. It's the best decision I ever made, and has done wonders for my health. There are also plenty of good environmental and ethical reasons for a vegan diet. But I don't believe the point is for everyone to go vegan - it's not for everyone. Rather, omnivours should be encouraged to eat more vegan meals, and perhaps appreciate the meat they do eat more. It doesn't have to be either or. The problem is too many of us eat unconsciously - we're addicted to certain tastes, and we follow our cravings. Veganism forces you to reconsider what you put in your body, and I believe it is this, rather than the diet itself, that is empowering. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. toonbasedmanc Comment No. 1174589 June 20 17:22 There is a lot of food in the world that is wonderfully tasty and vegan - lots of meditteranean food for a start - it just isn't encumbered by the label. Pulses are good, as are nut roasts as suggested by earlier posters. I also used to love huge salads with sprouts and beans, soups and veg stews with herby dumplings etc (vegan suet). There are some 'fake' products that I would recommend like egg free mayonnaise, tofu and seaweed 'burgers' and swedish glace vegan ice cream but otherwise the best advice is to think about the non meat dairy things that you already eat and enjoy and to eat more of them! I was a vegan for 3 years and went back to being omnivorous predominantly because of the 'holier and better than thou' attitude of other vegans who equated dietary choices with child abuse and thought anyone not vegan was generally more unpleasant than Hitler and Stalin put together! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. AntonyVerus Comment No. 1174598 June 20 17:23 Veganism and other types Boutique Environmentalism are just a couple of ways human beings have invented to feel smug and superior and to put down other people. That's really what's at the core of it, not their love for the poor animals or poor Mother Earth. If Vegans and Vegetarians truly had solidarity with other human beings and animals then they'd just eat like people in most of the Third World, nay most human beings have done for thousands of years, meaning a mostly vegetable and grain based diet with rare and precious and infrequent animal protein used for flavoring. Occasionally for weddings and big holidays you roast a whole beast. Otherwise, you eat mostly vegetables with bits of eggs and dried little fish and scraps of offal when you can get them. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. seventh Comment No. 1174645 June 20 17:49 So my comment about devouring vegans was deleted, apparently. Cheer up you miserable bunch. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. spottiedog10 Comment No. 1174647 June 20 17:49 LeftSaidThread brings up a good point about veganism. The mere harvesting of plant materials often kills or displaces animals. Maybe not nice fluffy sheep and cows, but certainly invertebrates. The only lasting culture/religion that seems to have taken this into consideration, and thus could be used as an argumnet for veganism, seems to be the Jains, who theroretically won't eat anything that grows in the ground like potatoes as harvesting them could potentially harm something. Or would only eat fruit that is not too ripe in case insect larvae are killed, etc. Tricky dilemma for true vegans. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. rdpmackie Comment No. 1174651 June 20 17:53 I'm not Vegan AntonyVerus because of my love for all the dear animals of poor mother earth. To me it's an intellectual thing - an ethical thing. I simply think it's barbaric, neaderthal even to chop up other sentient beings into little pieces and eat them. Of course the environmental and health benefits of my choice are also nice. It's an unfortunate stereotype that vegans are all pasty, scrawny, hippies hugging kittens and trees. I'm 200lbs of terrifying strength, i ride a motorbike, i'm covered in tattoos, and could care less about bunny rabbits and kittens and doe-eyed cows. To me this is all about evolution, ethics, philosophy. I just can't picture an evolved humanity chopping up other sentient beings into little pieces and eating them. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. mijnheer Comment No. 1174657 June 20 17:56 toonbasedmanc writes: "I was a vegan for 3 years and went back to being omnivorous predominantly because of the 'holier and better than thou' attitude of other vegans who equated dietary choices with child abuse and thought anyone not vegan was generally more unpleasant than Hitler and Stalin put together!" The logic is impeccable. Personally, I went back to beating my wife because of the 'holier and better than thou' attitude of all those feminists who said wife-beating was evil. I guess I showed them! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. AntonyVerus Comment No. 1174665 June 20 18:01 So rdpmackie you've verified my point that Veganism is more about feeling smug and superior to other human beings - is that ethical? to feel that you're better just because you live in a 1st World culture that affords you the possibility to eat vegan and remain healthy? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. OrangeZonker Comment No. 1174694 June 20 18:14 PowerValveno, he created you for that role. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. paulatempest Comment No. 1174743 June 20 18:41 Hi Jay Have you come across Madhur Jaffrey's book World Vegetarian. Lots of inspiring and doable vegan recipes in there that don't rely totally on Thailand for their origins. My comment to you: must try harder. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Reditor Comment No. 1174762 June 20 18:53 Kudos to orange zonker ... it's the holier-than- thou types like dhamma who give vegans a bad name. So what's not to love about veganism? Well, besides the fact it ain't natural, as already pointed out, from an ecological standpoint, it takes crazy amounts of petrol to schlep exotic ingredients around the world; in part to avoid this expensive shipping, soy beans are planted on factory farms displacing heritage crops grown locally thus reducing biodiversity; to make soy grow in climates where it's not a "natural" crop, it's often subject to vast amounts of irrigation, pesticides, fertilizer, etc., etc. So the whole "good for the planet" thing needs a careful analysis ... a lot of that argument is pure bunkum. Then there's the serious scientific discussion about what happens to the human body when you overload the system w/ soy (the absolute rock-bottom staple of most vegan diets). Especially alarming are people more worried about dairy cattle than their own offspring. In the words of one researcher, "Infants fed soy-based formulas are part of a large, uncontrolled, and basically unmonitored human infant experiment, with uncertain risks and benefits."http://findarticles .com/p/articles/ mi_m0NAH/ is_2_29/ai_ 53929987/ pg_1?tag= artBody;col1 And as a lot of people do find soy to be essentially a bland, flavorless mush, they salt and fat the bejeezus out of it to make it into fake meat. Ever check the nutrition content on some of that stuff??? So the "it's healthier for you" argument also contains an amount of bull___t that renders it nonvegan if you swallow it whole. It's a choice. Fine, great, live and let live. But when the likes of dhamma try to ram their supposed moral superiority down my throat, it does make me (and apparently orange zonker, and a lot of others) want to run out and grab a cheeseburger. I promise not to invite you over for a barbecued steak (bloody rare, if you must know) if you promise to quit prostelytizing for your food cult. Me, I grew up around farmers. I know what goes into my food. I eat as much local/organic as I can. I'll put a locally grown, low-carbon-footprin t chicken up against a vegan curry any day as far as the moral high ground. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Arras Comment No. 1174766 June 20 18:56 Jay,I had read your review of the vegan restaurant and laughed as I had a friend (vegetarian) who used cold pressed safflower oil for her cooking, so everything tasted of it...and it had an accumulative factor so just smelling it would make me instantly not hungry....On the other hand, I had friends (I moved from the area, hence past tense) who used the book Laura's Kitchen as their cooking bible and they turned out some great dishes. The Moosewood (collective/ restaurant) put out some great books (not all vegan, but a good start), and I still use my copies as healthier choices for recipes. Did you check out any vegan cookbooks before starting your animal source fast? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. tromso Comment No. 1174818 June 20 19:20 What's the deal with the sudden flurry of (patronising, at best) articles on veganism in The Guardian this month? The overall tone of the articles is one of boorish anti-PC baiting glee, pre-emptive attacks supposedly justified by 'smug' or 'whiny' vegans. Sadly, your targets are either too polite, or insufficiently bothered about the approval of the braying 'gastro' classes, to provide the furore your columnists crave. All this 'carni-bore' desperation for conflict and offence just makes you look, well, desperate. Taking potshots at people who are trying to do their bit to live an ethical life, without harming anyone, and in the vast maojrity of cases, without preaching, comes across to the casual reader as exactly what it is - the work of ignorant bullies. A final thought: I somehow doubt that you would dare to mock a diet shaped by religous observance. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. digit Comment No. 1174823 June 20 19:22 I have no food rules, but, increasingly, I find veg is my preferred option. It makes me feel good in a way that goes beyond taste. I wolf down platefuls of it like a person who's been malnourished up to now. Perhaps I have. At some point, I went through a weird sort of revelatory process where I realised that the thing I liked best, which I was having on the side, could just be the main bit of the meal. The less mucked about with it is, the better I like it, ie. I don't tend to stew things much. Salad veg raw and the rest lightly steamed or, for the ratatouille veg, peppers, aubergines and courgettes, roasting works well. From there, you can mix with lentils or other beans and pulses, sprinkle with seeds etc. and season to your taste. The idea that it all has to be 'ethnic' seems a little unimaginative. Season it with thyme, basil or rosemary, to name but three, and it's tasty, but not ethnic. Simple really. Olive oil, sunflower oil and others take care of Blumenthal's fat concern, and in a way that won't raise your cholesterol. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. kyoto Comment No. 1174839 June 20 19:29 I think there are health benefits to a vegan diet. You will almost inevitably reduce your cholesterol levels, if that is a concern. For the average person who tries to follow a vegan diet, you may end up eating more salads and more vegetables in general. For a high end, high maintenance foodie (hello Jay), it is unlikely you will want to limit your options, which is fair enough, but there still might be no harm in balancing out all those steaks and factory chickens with the occaisonal lighter meal based on pulses and so on. There are other recipes you could use, of course, but it's best to look at some vegan cook books. My favourite is Isa Chandra Moskowitz. Jay is spot on about Japanese food. I lived in Japan for six years and loved the food there. I did eat fish admittedly, but also had some gorgeous vegan and vegetarian meals. Eating Japanese in England is a little expensive for most of us, but once you get hold of the aesthetic of Japanese style food, there is something about the cleanliness and lack of dairy which is addictive in its own way. Thai food is great, but coconut is very fattening if you decided to live off it. For other world foods, you could look at some of the World Cafe books from Covent Garden. For myself, I am veggie rather than vegan, but I have come across a lot of veggies who are sick of things like goat's cheese every time they eat out. Really well cooked vegan food could light up any mainstream menu and provide something lighter and cleaner than many of the exceedingly rich kind of dishes we usually find. Anyway, I think it's good you gave it a go. In my small town, I have been really surprised by the number of vegans I have across of all ages and outlooks. Only a very small number fit the cranky stereotype. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. horseless Comment No. 1174843 June 20 19:31 I've been a vegan for almost 20 years. I am not a chef but I am told that I make varied and tasty food which provides a balanced diet. How hard can it be? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. biba100mejico Comment No. 1174849 June 20 19:37 So at least you went into this with an open mind eh? This is obviously one of those Guardian ethics free zones.Like motorcycling across Latin American salt flats. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. SusanSmillie Comment No. 1174855 June 20 19:38 tromso - can I just direct you to the post below, Why are vegans so vilified, that we ran on Word of Mouth a couple of weeks ago, and that Jay linked to above? http://blogs. guardian. co.uk/food/ 2008/06/is_ veganism_ child_abuse. htmlOr, indeed, this other post below, The end of easy meat?, which we ran a week or so earlier on this blog, which generated lots of thoughtful conversation on both sides. http://blogs. guardian. co.uk/food/ 2008/05/vegetari anism.htmlAs editor of Word of Mouth, I believe we've been pretty even handed here. And, if you're interested, there will be some more coming up, from both sides of the debate on Sunday. Then I think we'll just leave it alone for a while! Thanks for your comment though. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. slimv Comment No. 1174859 June 20 19:41 wow! jay rayner's diet just sounds scarey. he eats, even as a vegan, so much heavy, sloppy, weighty food....it can't be good for his body or life energy or youthfulness. ... sure he's food writer so i suppose they adore cheese, oil, processed foods, heavy meats, thick sauces, potent proteins... but it all sounds too weighty unless you're an athlete this diet, and maybe i'm just freaking and reading between the lines...just sounds 'gross'. does a food writer have a responsibility to be a health writeris it ironic that a food writer is writing about the food and a diet that is possibly injurious for the body... who knows. eat on. there's too many on the planet as it is. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. slimv Comment No. 1174861 June 20 19:41 wow! jay rayner's diet just sounds scarey. he eats, even as a vegan, so much heavy, sloppy, weighty food....it can't be good for his body or life energy or youthfulness. ... sure he's food writer so i suppose they adore cheese, oil, processed foods, heavy meats, thick sauces, potent proteins... but it all sounds too weighty unless you're an athlete this diet, and maybe i'm just freaking and reading between the lines...just sounds 'gross'. does a food writer have a responsibility to be a health writeris it ironic that a food writer is writing about the food and a diet that is possibly injurious for the body... who knows. eat on. there's too many on the planet as it is. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Ieuan Comment No. 1174883 June 20 19:58 PowerValve said: "Has nobody mentioned seitan?" I'd completely forgotten about seitan. Many thanks, Powervalve for reminding me. I'm off to buy some high-gluten whole-wheat flour tomorrow. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. toodamnnice Comment No. 1174900 June 20 20:14 Hmmm. If ever an article was written before the event.... Then again, as a veggie of many years, I'd probably do the same if asked to write down my experiences of eating nothing but meat for a week. Maybe that would cure you of your cadaver eating obsession Jay - you must eat only meat for a week, no kind of vegetable matter allowed. See how you get on. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. biba100mejico Comment No. 1174901 June 20 20:15 So at least you went into this with an open mind eh? This is obviously one of those Guardian ethics free zones. Like motorcycling across Latin American salt flats. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. farofa Comment No. 1174905 June 20 20:15 Rice and beans (carioca i.e. brown - with fried onion and garlic added for the last 20 minutes or so of cooking - and with enough thick sauce to soak into some of the rice) with a special farofa (toasted manioc meal, in this case with fried onion, bits of olive and banana) sprinkled on top to make it slightly crunchy and even more tasty. On side, kale wilted in fried garlic and finely chopped onions (fry the garlic before the onion - odd eh?), with chips or fried manioc. Pasta or gnocchi with various types of good tomato sauce or with garlic and oil would be a good choice, I reckon, and bean stocks or mashed potato bases are lovely tasty and creamy for some soups. Fried would be the closest thing to my meat substitute: fried aubergine, potatoes, veggie kibe etc. Bread, olives, olive oil tomato and salt would have to serve in the place of cheese, as a nice accompaniment to wine. Can't help but think, though, that if vegans don't like the taste of meat, they should just eat chicken instead! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. badcat Comment No. 1174918 June 20 20:20 World's best vegan meal: Hobnobs and Laphroaig. World's second best (and incredibly filling and healthy, if fattening) vegan meal: Bean burrito with guacamole on the side. Here in Colorado we've got lots of Mexican restaurants, and can get good canned vegetarian refrieds in the grocery store; I think you've got them there, too. Serve with near-freezing beer (check to ensure filtering agents are OK) and lime. You can grow avocado trees indoors, if need be. Jay, you've got it easy. Because of family diabetes, I've recently been harried by my evil doctor into giving up all forms of _sugar_ (not just the non-vegetarian sugar with bone ash filtration). You lucky bugger, you can still have things like biscotti, luscious bittersweet chocolate-dipped marzipan chunks, chestnut truffles with brandy, macadamia brittle with high quality vanilla, deep chocolate sorbet with mint leaves, sharp lemon cake, baklava with rose water, ohhhh god, I'm dying. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. lighter Comment No. 1174931 June 20 20:30 I find it strange that vegans have not discovered what Greek cooking can do with pulses, olive oil, and herbs. It's vegan soul food, and unlike most other vegan food, it works well with wine. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. AntonyVerus Comment No. 1174933 June 20 20:31 Quinoa Soy Rhubarb Cake Turn oven on to 400° Drive to Whole Foods with a wad of cash in your Lexus, buy: 12 oz quinoa2 oz cashew butter4 oz of soy yogurt (plain)1/2c of agave nectar1/2 tsp of gray sea salt1/2 tsp of baking powder10 of rhubarb stalks.24oz of Evian water Set one rhubarb stalk aside. Boil quinoa and 9 chopped up rhubarb stalks in Evian water until cooked and soft. Take pan off heat and mix in remaining ingredients. Pour mixture into 9x9 cake pan and place it into oven. Bake for 2 hours. Call up Fiona Apple or Donald Watson and tell them about what a healthy cake you're making. Tally up all the carbon emissions it took to transport all these gourmet ingredients to your local Whole Foods and back home with you. Take the cake out of the oven and throw it away. Take the remaining stalk of rhubarb and pleasure yourself as best you can. (serves 1 pious Vegan, 0 calories) Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. willowlion Comment No. 1174937 June 20 20:33 yeah, well, as to the fake meat thing: I personally (vegan for 12 years) don't go for them much... but why shouldn't you/anyone? If they give you the taste/texture you are missing and fit in with your ethical choices why not? But I have to say... quorn (years of veggie-ism talking here) - yeugh... please find redwoods Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. ArchaeoArcanum Comment No. 1174938 June 20 20:33 As a confirmed carnivore married to a dedicated vegan, I feel your pain! One trick I learned long ago was spice, spice and more spice! Tofu (a substance that would be infinitely better suited to some sort of electrical insulation application rather than a foodstuff) is about as exciting as watching the Darts on telly. Even the Chinese long ago realised that "hey, this stuff tastes like crap" by itself. Its one redeeming quality is that it absorbs the flavour of pretty much anything it comes into contact with. Therefore, season often and season heavily. If you must cook with tofu, liberal use of soy sauce, black bean sauce or peppers can make the awful stuff almost palatable. Another tip is the frequent use of mushrooms... mushrooms of every shape and description. I've had great success with exotic mushrooms combined with wild rice. Even so, I still have moments when I can scarcely wait until I can sneak in the next evil chicken curry! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. stevlknevl Comment No. 1174942 June 20 20:35 ReditorIt's a choice. Fine, great, live and let live. But when the likes of dhamma try to ram their supposed moral superiority down my throat, it does make me (and apparently orange zonker, and a lot of others) want to run out and grab a cheeseburger. If you are going to participate in a dialogue about a vegan or vegetarian diet you really shouldn't get upset when someone who thinks differently from you makes their point of view known. Meat eaters are always accusing vegans of acting superior to them.AntonyVerusVeganism and other types Boutique Environmentalism are just a couple of ways human beings have invented to feel smug and superior and to put down other people. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Tigersnake Comment No. 1174945 June 20 20:35 Is anyone, apart from his bank manager and his mother,perhaps, really interested in Jay Rayner living as a vegan for a week, or even anything else in his life? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. kyoto Comment No. 1174955 June 20 20:48 archaeo "If you must cook with tofu, liberal use of soy sauce, black bean sauce or peppers can make the awful stuff almost palatable." The first thing is to get decent tofu. It is available in England and is manufactured in Malton, North Yorks. (I haven't said the brand name). Next thing it's important to press it out properly. Thirdly, to marinade overnight (or a few hours). I like shoyu or tamari, mirin and a little water with some sliced red chilli, sliced ginger and garlic. Fourthly, griddle. Result is very tasty. I usually serve with shi'itake gravy. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Ameliam Comment No. 1174985 June 20 21:08 There is a world of unintentionally vegan recipes: pasta and bean soup, chana masala, caponata, gazpacho, falafel, refried beans (minus the pig fat), grilled polenta, pan Catalan, stuffed vine leaves,borscht - the list is endless. Vegan food for me isn't about substitution, it's about old school peasant food mixed with hippy favourites. Brown rice rocks! Can't quite kick the oyster habit though. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. DamienLove Comment No. 1174994 June 20 21:16 As A vegetarian, I do not eat meet, as I feel it is unethical to kill animals for food. Therefore I have no problem eating tofu, as it is not dead animal. And that is why (most) vegetarian's/ vegan's eat tofu. It may taste like meat, but we don't not eat meat because of the taste, but because of the process behind it. Obviously this doesn't apply to all. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Reditor Comment No. 1175000 June 20 21:18 Stevl: You're right, I shouldn't have made dhamma write the original post telling Jay he wouldn't eat meat or dairy if he thought of the animals ... hell yes we meat eaters accuse some vegans of acting superior. How else are we to read a post where the basic assumption is that the only reason we eat meat is that we are unthinking oafs who haven't pondered the food chain? Who's looking down at whom? Have you or dhamma ever even been face to face with a cow? Scratched its belly? Milked it? Fed it? Seen it give birth? Fed its calf when the cow was dry? Felt its big, rough tongue on your hand as it ate a fistful of fresh grass? Held the rope when it was slaughtered (humanely)? Helped butcher it, preserving every precious morsel of its flesh you possibly could because you truly understood its sacrifice for your table? Modern cattle are great, dense, beautiful, hopeless eating and defecating factories, only outdone in the dim department by sheep and chickens. Ten thousand generations ago, they may have been majestic wild animals (suitable then as now for eating, procreation and being eaten by carnivores), but dairy cattle can no more live without care by humans than a hairless Chihuahua can survive in Alaska on its own. And almost every dairy cow I've ever seen in the flesh (numbering in the tens or possibly hundreds of thousands) is pretty damned contented with its life: A clean, warm barn, lots of food, open fields in good weather, prompt health care, protected from the elements and predators. No, I don't like the way factory farms raise many animals for meat -- without sufficient room to wander around, pumped full of growth hormones and the like -- but I don't eat much of that meat, either. I don't think it's healthy, I don't like what it does to the environment and it doesn't have much flavor. And I don't tell vegans (or vegetarians or fishatarians or people with religious strictures against certain foods) how to live. But when dhamma and his/her ilk tell me in essence I'm dense or else I would be a vegan too, yes, I tell them off. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. sugargirl Comment No. 1175032 June 20 21:59 I've been vegetarian for 20 years, and I can't see the point of meat substitutes either, and completely agree that the best meat-free meals are the ones that 'just happen' to be meat-free (I really don't like vegetarian restaurants for just that reason). I'm surprised that he didn't eat anything Italian - pasta with arrabiata or marinara sauce for example. Also, mushrooms on toast - lots of olive oil, chill and garlic, mmmmm -, jersey royals roasted in garlic and rosemary olive oil until crispy and golden...My mouth is watering, need to go and eat Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. astralandrew Comment No. 1175036 June 20 22:02 I hate to put a dampner on eating out as a vegan at a curry house - but i think most of them are likely to be cooking with Ghee? (clarified butter?????? ) ;-( Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Chandelia Comment No. 1175040 June 20 22:05 Cool discussion, my 11 year old just decided about a month ago to be vegan out of solidarity with all the male baby chicks that get wiped out cos they're no good for egg production; seriously one day he was shopping for fish, and cleaning it himself, the next he wouldn't even eat ice cream. Spontaneously. So now I have a cupboard full of soya milk and a freezer full of swedish glace. Thought I might get some good food ideas from this blog. If he's still vegan by the time his birthday comes round next month we'll probably try that place Saf. Wonder what he'll make of it. Thought I might make him that quinoa rhubarb cake suggested earlier by AntonyVerus but damn my local whole food rip off emporium is all out of agave nectar. who knows though - by July he may have returned to the true faith ie vegetarianism and we'll be back to the local pizza place. Jay yeah love the kitchen units but why is there a loo seat on top of the cooker? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. astralandrew Comment No. 1175043 June 20 22:06 "Remember what i told you" - lol Alex RIP x Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Chandelia Comment No. 1175044 June 20 22:07 Astralandrew you really know how to spoil a girl's night! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. LadyInRed Comment No. 1175047 June 20 22:10 Seriously, Jay Rayner, do you really feel that you really tried to eat vegan? I won't list the vegetables you do not mention (we all know what a vegetable is), nor the variety of rice dishes, or the possibilities of couscous or hummus or avocados or maize or, well, you get my point. There are heaps & barrows of all the food you didn't try. But staying to them, and them alone, would be easier if you avoided prepared foods (and in that, I include readymade pastas or sauces or stir-frys) and did all your cooking yourself - choosing vegetables, oils, spices you knew the contents of, not having to read ingredient lists... I am not a vegan and will not claim to have tried being one. I do however eat mostly vegetarian (including dairy and, once in a while, eggs) simply because I like it. The rich variety of taste you get by mixing vegetables, oil and spice is far superior to the variety of taste you get by mixing meat and butter... And I don't think avoiding dairy for a week (we're talking seven breakfasts, seven lunches and seven dinners, here!) would have had to be that difficult at all. But "eating all vegan is far easier than anyone would think" would maybe have been a more boring angle for you than "eating vegan is hell"?Remember, vegans EAT nuts, vegans AREN'T nuts... Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. astralandrew Comment No. 1175050 June 20 22:12 @ Chandelia "the true faith - Vegetarianism" You ARE joking? Your son sounds like a well-balanced child making positive, informed choices for himself!Vegetarianism is just watered down veganism.... .. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. bagshaw78 Comment No. 1175051 June 20 22:12 I am a meat eater but work as a vegan head chef and it is ceratianly a challenge. You cannot achieve the same depth of flavour, but i enjoy the job as it has made me go into greater detail with my knowledge of spices. Ethnic cookery is indeed the way to go. My hot tips? Reduced stocks with water used to soak pulses can be good - black or fava beans in particular have a good flavour. Use a bit of seaweed in soups. Fresh coconut cream can be good for enriching flavour and texture by adding some saturated fat. You can get away with using it in alot of different ways apart just asian cooking. Using really good quality seasonings is vital - don't just use standard brands of soy sauce, spend the extra and buy organic tamari, Clearspring is a good company if you can afford their stuff. For sweet flavours melted palm sugar (cheap as chips) can be as good as honey or better, or try using agave syrup. Mirin makes practically anything taste better. Booze based sauces are naturally rich as in meat cookery. Sadly there are almost no good vegan cookbooks ive found. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Chandelia Comment No. 1175068 June 20 22:32 @ astralandrew, yes i suppose i was being slightly tongue in cheek by that point. But i have thought of something Jay should have eaten; ratatouille. Delicious, nutritious,you can easily add protein if you want eg by sprinkling with toasted pine nuts and it is (almost) seasonal. With some hot fresh bread or plain boiled potatoes. And it's the name of quite a good cartoon film. What more could you want?! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Reditor Comment No. 1175077 June 20 22:43 @Chandelia:If you're looking for a good vegan food tip ... vegan stocks tend to be difficult to get depth of flavour, as many of the vegetable boullion mixes are milk-based. Instead, try grinding half a packet of high-grade herbal tea (a nice citrus blend works best) in your palm, then adding it as you saute your first batch of veggies, before adding any water.As long as it's reasonably well powdered, the bits become just another spice fleck in the finished soup or sauce, and no one will ever identify that "extra" kick of taste as Lemon Lift or what have you. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. laurabarton Comment No. 1175078 June 20 22:43 hallo Mr Rayner, I'm vegetarian not vegan, but a couple of years ago I discovered a recipe book from the Fresh restaurants in Toronto (http://www. juiceforlife. com/cookbook. html#) and found it so amazingly delicious that I ate vegan for two whole months without noticing. and to be honest, I've never felt better in my life. oh, and i'm with you on the fakin bacon front.ps may I raise an objection to the fruit plate as a vegetarian/vegan pudding? we get VERY bored of it. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Daisybell Comment No. 1175103 June 20 23:03 What about some less exotic stuff that is still Vegan? Baked beans come to mind - and I see from the label they are gluten free too. I think if I had to be vegan for a week I'd live on beans on toast! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. EquivalencyDalek Comment No. 1175128 June 20 23:21 Vegetarianism is relatively appealing but veganism is wilful alienation from the reality of one's own existence and mortality. What do baby vegans drink? And why do they drink it? Someone mentioned brown rice. Brown rice, like wholemeal pasta, is revolting, and nothing to do with vegetarianism, veganism or even eating well. It is a self-hate on a plate. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Aindriug Comment No. 1175144 June 20 23:27 Ultimately, why bother? Veganism is an idiotic idea, largely espoused by crypto-puritans and neo-ascetics, the culinary equivalent of a horsehair shirt. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Merseymike Comment No. 1175169 June 20 23:39 I see no reason why I should encourage eating disorders. The Portuguese grill sounds just great! As for vegan food - excuse me whilst I vomit.... Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. TeacherMan Comment No. 1175175 June 20 23:43 Meat free substitutes are garbage. Jay, what you like about meat is its flavor and its texture. Try this next time - get some dried oyster mushrooms, they have a lovely texture that's similar to chicken. The flavor elements in meat are the fat and the blood. Substitute olive oil or some kind of nut oil for the fat and use wine to simulate the blood, and use the same seasonings that you would on meat - garlic, ginger, onion or what have you. This will give you that "meaty flavor. Part of the reason you feel unsatisfied is because you're not getting the nutrition you need. Make sure you've got nuts, legumes or leafy greens going on. I know you'll think I'm a nut case, but I used to be like you. I loved steak and burgers and thought it was a crime against nature if they weren't served so rare they were bleeding. Giving up the cheese was much harder than giving up the meat. Now, I'm mostly a raw vegan. You see when you cook food, you destroy over half of the nutrients. Enzymes in food don't survive the cooking process. Once you feel what its like to not have the crap in your body that meat and dairy deposits, you'll never look back. Five days isn't nearly enough to experience any of the benefits of veganism. You carry chunks of meat in your intestine for YEARS! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. TeacherMan Comment No. 1175178 June 20 23:43 Meat free substitutes are garbage. Jay, what you like about meat is its flavor and its texture. Try this next time - get some dried oyster mushrooms, they have a lovely texture that's similar to chicken. The flavor elements in meat are the fat and the blood. Substitute olive oil or some kind of nut oil for the fat and use wine to simulate the blood, and use the same seasonings that you would on meat - garlic, ginger, onion or what have you. This will give you that "meaty flavor. Part of the reason you feel unsatisfied is because you're not getting the nutrition you need. Make sure you've got nuts, legumes or leafy greens going on. I know you'll think I'm a nut case, but I used to be like you. I loved steak and burgers and thought it was a crime against nature if they weren't served so rare they were bleeding. Giving up the cheese was much harder than giving up the meat. Now, I'm mostly a raw vegan. You see when you cook food, you destroy over half of the nutrients. Enzymes in food don't survive the cooking process. Once you feel what its like to not have the crap in your body that meat and dairy deposits, you'll never look back. Five days isn't nearly enough to experience any of the benefits of veganism. You carry chunks of meat in your intestine for YEARS! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. gondwanaland Comment No. 1175179 June 20 23:44 Jay, How come you look a dead ringer for Richard Reid the "shoe bomber"? This post has already been deleted, but a face is a face. No disrespect mate. Get yourself another mug shot. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. digit Comment No. 1175234 June 21 0:11 I bloody love brown rice, EquivalencyDalek. Nothing wrong with wholewheat pasta either. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Baronvonberghausen Comment No. 1175263 June 21 0:28 Right then, I'm a Vegan as is my wife. To answer the point made previously as to why people "bother" with fake meats is a pretty simple one. I like the taste of meat, I love it in fact. I'm sure 1000's of other vegetarians do too. If you could manufacture a product that smelt, tasted and had the texture of a good steak, or grilled salmon or baby back ribs, BUT wasn't, I would be all over it like stink on poo. I am against the mass exploitation of animals. Thats it. So what is wrong with fake products? My favourite being fake fish fingers or " Nish Fingers" as I call them. 85% of fresh water on this planet is used up by farming/livestock industries worldwide. If we only ate a fraction less meat, I'm sure the costs of basic foods wouldnt be anywhere near as high as is being predicted. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. OliviaC Comment No. 1175310 June 21 1:01 Summer pudding - real, delicious food which just happens not to have any dairy in it. I make this for my carnivorous friends every summer, when all the berries are most luscious and juicy, so it isn't a vegan-desperation- dish. All us non-vegans add lashings of cream, of course, but I imagine thinned coconut cream or soya cream would do. My Mum makes a big dish of roasted vegetables with a shitaake mushroom & polenta cake that's really fantastic. It happens to be vegan, although we tend to eat them with roast lamb. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Kepler Comment No. 1175326 June 21 1:10 A week of vegan cookery in the summer and not one mention of salad! Riffle through all those cookbooks, Jay. And don't knock the veggie burger, especially the Cauldron spinach and sweetcorn variety, it will make you feel way more energetic than what Jamie calls 'donkey bollock burger'. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Kepler Comment No. 1175328 June 21 1:11 A week of vegan cookery in the summer and not one mention of salad! Riffle through all those cookbooks, Jay. And don't knock the veggie burger, especially the Cauldron spinach and sweetcorn variety, it will make you feel way more energetic than what Jamie calls 'donkey bollock burger'. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. astralandrew Comment No. 1175688 June 21 9:20 As an advocate of vegan/vegetarianism on lots of levels (not for this thread) - i am appalled by this self-obssession i see here with peoples tastes in food!Why does everything have to be so 'satisfying' or 'deliciuos'! !It all sounds very much like 'addict' behaviour to me - always searching for that next food high/experience/ satisfaction - we seem to have forgotten that whatever we eat is a blessing and that a VERY large majority of the worlds population lives on either plain rice or maize based staples day in and day out!Its all very well for us to blog on the guradian slagging each others diets off, but, lets get some perspective here.We're not all followers of epicurus... Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. ciwstudent Comment No. 1175753 June 21 9:56 I am not a vegetarian and certainly not a vegan, in fact a week asa vegan would be horrible for me because all days that start without a nice cup of tea is destined to be a s__t day, and even UHT milk doesn't tast right in tea in my opinion.I also really like meat, so I have to respect people who give it up completly because of a lifestyle choice, if only for the reason that like running a four-minute- mile, it is something I couldn't do myself.I do have certain reservations about the point of view that verybdy should become vegan (as posted in an aricle on CIF not so long ago). For example, if nobody were to eat animals, leather production would be directly comperable ethically and environmentally as fur production is today, in that the animal 's only reason for existence as it were is to be killed for it's fur. Some people may have a different opinion but I beleive that for example a sheepskin coat is ethically "better" than a mink (or whatever) one because somebody would have eaten the animal, perhaps after it had been shorn a few times for wool production as opposed to bein killed, skinned, and incinerated.And as to the fake leather alternative, perhaps if I am wrong somebody can correct e if I am wrong, but as far as I know it is essentially made out of PVC (polyvinyl chloride). The base for tins substance is, of course, fosil fuels, the usage of which we ought to inhibit. I have no idea what the difference in carbon footprint is, but it would be interesting! One thing that i like to eat which happens to be vegan is gazpacho (spanish cold soup). It may sund dd, but it really is very nice! Oh dear, that was a long post. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. ciwstudent Comment No. 1175754 June 21 9:56 I am not a vegetarian and certainly not a vegan, in fact a week as a vegan would be horrible for me because all days that start without a nice cup of tea is destined to be a s__t day, and even UHT milk doesn't tast right in tea in my opinion.I also really like meat, so I have to respect people who give it up completly because of a lifestyle choice, if only for the reason that like running a four-minute- mile, it is something I couldn't do myself.I do have certain reservations about the point of view that verybdy should become vegan (as posted in an aricle on CIF not so long ago). For example, if nobody were to eat animals, leather production would be directly comperable ethically and environmentally as fur production is today, in that the animal 's only reason for existence as it were is to be killed for it's fur. Some people may have a different opinion but I beleive that for example a sheepskin coat is ethically "better" than a mink (or whatever) one because somebody would have eaten the animal, perhaps after it had been shorn a few times for wool production as opposed to bein killed, skinned, and incinerated.And as to the fake leather alternative, perhaps if I am wrong somebody can correct e if I am wrong, but as far as I know it is essentially made out of PVC (polyvinyl chloride). The base for tins substance is, of course, fosil fuels, the usage of which we ought to inhibit. I have no idea what the difference in carbon footprint is, but it would be interesting! One thing that i like to eat which happens to be vegan is gazpacho (spanish cold soup). It may sund dd, but it really is very nice! Oh dear, that was a long post. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Clevo Comment No. 1175817 June 21 10:40 Your description of your few days does not justify the title "My vegan hell". One or two difficulties with bad labelling seems to be all. You didn't actually feel bad or ill on it, I gather. Nor did you eat so much soya products that you went downhill. Like one of your correspondents, my wife and I went from vegetarian to vegan for two years, and suffered fron soya interference in body chemistry, not from lack of tasty food. You also keep on buying factory-made rubbish. Nearly all factory food is deader than expired animal bodies. No live enzymes. Five days is nothing. Like an M.P. spending a week in a council house on Benefits to learn how "they" live. Still, it did earn something from the paper. Wish I'd written it and got the cheque. Yours, O.A.P. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. richl Comment No. 1176034 June 21 12:37 "soya interference in body chemistry" What does this mean? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. SelahWrites Comment No. 1176128 June 21 13:32 Thanks for going vegan - if even for such a short amount of time. I am always grateful when we get media attention (even negative) because maybe, just maybe, someone out there reading your article may start thinking about the suffering wrought on animals by our hands. For me, as an ethical vegan, reduction of suffering is my goal and objective, and every person who adopts a vegan life adds to the reduction of suffering of all sentient beings, the animals along with those whose livlihoods require them to work in factory farming environments. Veganism also significantly reduces global warming, an added bonus. Many of the commenters are on point when they address that you went through the toughest part of going vegan in the first week (well, 5 days.) Being vegan is a learning process, and one of the first pitfalls are the hidden ingredients one would never expect to find in foods, like the nuts with the dairy you discovered. It is a common misconception that vegans are saintly and virtously pure in their veganism from the minute the decision is made. That is not the case for most. We all have experienced that dreadful realization of consuming something that had something in it that we were blissfully unaware was an animal product, like isinglass in some beers. For that reason, you'll see vegans pouring over ingredient lists and sharing newfound "accidentally" vegan foods information among the vegan community. The same holds true for all other foods. We exchange recipes, have wonderful collections of cookbooks, and help each other with techniques and menu plans. I agree with your analog meat issue. I don't personally like them, and I don't like to pay the premium prices on them. They are the vegan equivalent of Hamburger Helper and about as nutritious as a salt shaker. Again, my gratitude to you for getting the word out there that vegans exist, that we do eat, and that it is possible, even if you didn't have the most wonderful experience. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. vivisexy Comment No. 1176291 June 21 15:55 as is already refered to, veganism is not a mere diet... it is a lifestyle and encompasses many other things than just the food we eat. I have followed a vegan diet for 13 years now, for many reasons - eating organic, vegan and local and non-processed means minimising one's ecological impact and not supporting agri-business and harmful industries. veganism has been embraced by many diverse sub-cultures - think of straight-edgers, many buddhists, rock-a-billy, anarchists and health-fanatics. Being conscious of avoiding additives, highly processed products, produce of the largest irreverent transnational corporations that are maximising their control over the food chain from land-ownership/ management, oil-based fertilizers, supply and distribution as well as the promotors of the profit-driven GM developments. ... and so it goes on. I, for one, eat delicious food, all the more so for the fact that I know that I am not supporting practices which compromises human rights and the environment. Purely looking at the taste of food, with pre-programmed ideas of what is 'good', is a symptom of the ever-isolated hedonsitic self. the squatting scene in the netherlands, the world-spread food-not-bombs groups and many other socially active grassroots kitchens are vegan for all and many other reasons above. Chefs recognsise that vegans consistently cook in a superior fashion to vegetarians. for some of the amazing vegan cooks out there, check out: www.theppk.com, and the supremely class www.govegan. net exploring veganism leads one into radical and creative politics, wonderful health and a clear mind... the ultimate 'cool'ness.. . veganism is for me the only way to live ethically and morally in a world that is increasingly product and instant-satisfactio n directed... consider it! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. RastaChef Comment No. 1176364 June 21 16:58 ""soya interference in body chemistry" What does this mean?" Soy contains phytoestrogens (plant hormones) which are thought to interfere with the function of the human body. I don't know much about it as I haven't read any scientific studies on soy consumption, but there have been claims that soy gives you man-boobs, gives you cancer, or turns you gay(!). As the claim that soy turns you gay was made by a homophobic christian nutjob, I think it's safe to ignore that one. If soy caused cancer or horbmone imbalances or anything like that, wouldn't it have been noticed amongst populations that eat a lot of tofu, i.e. some Chinese people? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. laurabarton Comment No. 1176392 June 21 17:19 Rastachef, there's some interesting thoughts on the subject of soya and health here: http://www.guardian .co.uk/food/ Story/0,, 1828158,00. html Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Peter vv Sent from Mail. A Smarter Email. Sent from Mail. A Smarter Email. “We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out.” - Bill Moyers “We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out.” - Bill Moyers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Yes we do, and yes there are, The UK is probably on eof the worst for non vegan beer, I will let Fraggle fill you in on beer, he is the undisputed champ.............. Peter vv Beatriz <searchingalight Sent: Sunday, 22 June, 2008 9:56:47 PMRe: My Vegan Hell - what about beer? You mentioned beer?Do we also have this problem with beer?Any vegan-safe brands of beer ?--- On Sun, 6/22/08, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> wrote: fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>Re: My Vegan Hell@gro ups.comSunday, June 22, 2008, 2:05 PM sulfites are added to wines to prevent bacterial and microbial growth within the wine, and to impede oxidation it's basically added to wine to make it last longer. all wines contain some sulfites (they are natural in grapes), but most wineries add sulfites for the above. as i said, finings don't have to be listed. same as isinglass in beer. since it's technically in the end product, its not listed. wines can be fined with a variety of non-animal products, such as bentonite (a clay) Beatriz Jun 22, 2008 10:20 AM @gro ups.com Re: My Vegan Hell does this stuff: gelatine, albumin... come listed on the label?I just checked a bottle I have here, it just says it contains sulfites, nothing else..The real stuff, I mean good quality wine shouldnt contain anything beyond grapejuice, and ,ok preservatives. No colourings, no flavourings. . and what should the gelatine do there--- On Sun, 6/22/08, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> wrote: fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>Re: My Vegan Hell@gro ups.comSunday, June 22, 2008, 1:01 PM some wines use isinglass, some use gelatin, some use egg albumen, etc....there' s a host of wines that have some animal product in em unfortunately look for wines listed as vegan, organic, or kosher. Peter VV Jun 22, 2008 9:20 AM @gro ups.com Re: My Vegan Hell Its the fining process, where they use isinglass ( swim bladder from a fish )or blood to clear the wine. Thee are some vegan wines out there , most come from S Africa or Australia, & USA. Peter vv Peter <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSunday, 22 June, 2008 9:34:54 AMRe: My Vegan Hell Hi Beatriz Most wine is made using a variety of additives, many of which are from animal based sources. I don't drink, so have limited knowledge of this sort of thing, but I know that most red wine, in particular, isn't vegan! BB Peter - Beatriz @gro ups.com Sunday, June 22, 2008 12:32 AM Re: My Vegan Hell Now, what the heck is vegan wine??? :oAs far as I know wine is made with grapes, which are pressed and fermented.What am I missing here?Thanks,Beatriz--- On Sat, 6/21/08, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote: Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com>Re: My Vegan Hell@gro ups.comSaturday, June 21, 2008, 3:15 PM Jay Rayner struggles through a week on a vegan diet June 20, 2008 1:25 PM Jay Rayner, vegan extraordinaire, prepares a meat-free, dairy-free feast. Photograph by Romas Foord My first thought, after taking the call from my editor was: what did I ever do to hurt her? After that it occurred to me that if, as she had asked, I went vegan for a week, I would at least be able to claim experience whenever I was explaining why I thought such a diet was the devil's work. Plus, as a journalist, I could see the news value. Only a week or so back, we were debating the merits of the vegan diet here on Word of Mouth. Coincidentally I also reviewed a vegan restaurant recently. I even managed to find a few things to like. So, one Tuesday, I headed off to the centre of London for a huge steak, at the rather wonderful Albemarle, and then embarked on my vegan purdah. You'll see, if you read the piece, that I faced some interesting and curious complications. For me the most interesting issue was the profile of the food I made for myself. I have long said that I abhor any meat free cookery, which tries to mimic the meat eating world. I would have no truck with 'Fakin', the bacon substitute. I would have nothing to do with Quorn or veggie burgers or any of that bizarre stuff carrying the name of the sainted Linda McCartney. Anything I cooked - including at a dinner party for eight - had to be food which just happened to be vegan. Perhaps inevitably I found myself heading down the ethnic route. A lot of noodles. A lot of miso and sweet chilli sauce. Stir fries. Curries. I did eat a little smoked tofu, but there's only so much of that I could take. My (first) downfall came via a surprising area: nuts. I thought that nuts would be my friend but it was not so: It is towards the end of my first 24 hours as a vegan, at the point when I discover I have already failed, that I begin to despair. How was I supposed to know there would be dairy products in a bag of nuts? Who the hell decided that putting dried milk powder in with the lemon and coriander flavoured cashews and macadamias was a good idea? Jay's Thai curry, lovingly prepared for his guests and himself. Photograph: Romas Foord Below are some edited extracts from the piece so that you can decide for yourself whether I was conscientious in my observance. Day one: I had bought rice noodles and smoked tofu and sweet chilli sauce and spring onions and that evening I use them to make a reasonable stir fry. I even decide that smoked tofu, with its dense, almost meaty texture, isn't half bad. The next morning I decide that soya milk and soya yoghurt are just about OK on my All-Bran, even allowing for the slight aftertaste of sawdust. At lunchtime I have more noodles and smoked tofu in miso soup. I eat fresh fruit. Later, I make a rather good Thai green curry full of roasted mushrooms and baby corn cobs and caramelised onions. It is fabulous; rich and dense and spicy and fulfilling and entirely vegan. Until, that is, I study the ingredients on the jar of Thai green curry paste: it's got crushed shrimp in it. Bloody hell. This isn't fair. I bought it at the uber veggie, all-the-wheatgrass- you-can-eat health-food shop. Day two (the restaurant trip): I have some falafel made from broad beans which are really just the victory of the deep-fat fryer ... I follow that with aubergine teriyaki which is nothing of the sort. Teriyaki suggests a sweet, sticky, dark soy-based sauce. This is a roll of chargrilled aubergine stuffed with ground-down mushrooms and something called pesto, which isn't. On the side are some stir-fried noodles with vegetables. Pretty much the same thing I made for myself a few nights before. I reach a conclusion: ethnic is the default position for the vegan. At the end I have a vegan rhubarb crumble, with a topping like cement and vegan custard (a combination of cornflour, water and flavourings) . Day three: There's another problem that's bugging me: finding something to eat when I am outside the house. In the world of the cheese sandwich, the vegan options are few and far between ... The solution? Go ethnic. But of course. I pull up a stool at a branch of Yo! Sushi and give thanks for the Japanese. A few Japanese pickle maki rolls and vegetable dumplings later the job is done. I am fed. Day four: Damn it all. I just ate some cow ... But I have started filming an edition of Channel 4's Dispatches, about the rising cost of food. (screens Monday night.) We are shooting a sequence in a Chinese restaurant ... I do my thing for the camera, explaining about China's growing beef habit and, to illustrate the point, pick up a cube of meat with my chopsticks. It dangles before my lips ... we all know the sequence doesn't work unless, at the end, I pop the meat into my mouth. And I do. It's delicious. It's the best piece of beef I have ever tasted. Later (the dinner party): The starter is easy, if labour intensive. It is asparagus season. I marinate armfuls in a mixture of soy, lemon juice and maple syrup, then chargrill them ahead of time on the skillet. There will be bowls of olives and marinated artichokes and a few Kettle Chips because, well, what's not to like about deep-fried potato and salt? The main course is more of a challenge because I don't want to succumb to the ethnic clichés, but nothing else seems to work. In the end I make a powerful Thai red curry, using a paste that contains no shrimps, and fill it with roast butternut squash and taut little Thai aubergines and coriander. We finish with a huge platter of fresh fruit, a plate of my wife's chocolate-chip biscotti, made to an entirely vegan recipe, and some vegan wine. Day five: It is Sunday and, coincidentally, the restaurant I have reviewed for the Observer is a smartypants vegan joint called Saf in London's Shoreditch, which makes a weird version of cheese out of nuts tortured to within an inch of their lives, and where a plate of mushed-up, stacked vegetables is called a lasagne. It is nothing of the sort. Later I phone Heston Blumenthal of the Fat Duck for some insight. I tell him what I am doing and there is a long hiss of breath from the end of the phone. He has known me quite a while, and understands my attachment to animals, particularly dead cooked ones. I want to know why the food I have been eating has been so much less satisfying. He tells me it's because it's low in fat. 'Flavour molecules dissolve in fat,' he says, 'so you're not getting the flavour hit you're used to.' I shouldn't feel bad about this. 'We are genetically hard-wired to crave fat,' he says, 'because it's a source of energy.' Going vegan, doing it properly, is therefore not something you can embark upon casually. I decide five days is enough. My wife asks me what I'm planning for my vegan dinner that evening. I say, 'Spare ribs and chorizo from the Portuguese grill house up the road.' The question is, did I miss a trick? I would genuinely appreciate some ideas from the rest of you for food I could have eaten. Remember the rules: no dairy, no eggs, no honey and, obviously enough, no meat or fish. The no pretend meat rule is mine. Perhaps you want to argue I'm wrong on that one. Please educate me and, in the process, the rest of us. Comments Please note: In order to post a comment you need to be registered and signed in for guardian.co. uk blogs. You can register here. catlily Comment No. 1173643 June 20 13:46 Definitely with you on the fake meat things - I just don't see the point of it. I am, however, quite surprised you didn't realise that Thai curry paste would have either shrimp paste or those tiny dried crushed shrimp in. And what about the fish sauce? Did you eschew that? I think North African/Middle Eastern food is very vegan friendly especially when serving a lot of people - there are enough vegan dips, falafel, that kind of thing, then salads, a big vegetable terrine, couscous.... easy. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. catlily Comment No. 1173653 June 20 13:48 Whoops, meant to say tagine, not terrine! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Intrigued Comment No. 1173675 June 20 13:52 Indian food and particulary south Indian is vegan-friendly. My wife went vegan for lent and we seemed to survive. Suprised to see that you didn't try rice and lentils (dhal) -- a vegan staple across South Asia! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. billbushell Comment No. 1173797 June 20 14:16 shouldn't you read the label BEFORE you use them? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. TimHayward Comment No. 1173835 June 20 14:24 I just keep looking back at the top of this post to the tags... Jay Rayner/Vegetarian To think that I would live to see it. I think I'll have it made into a tee-shirt. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. SusanSmillie Comment No. 1173913 June 20 14:40 I like your kitchen cabinets Jay! The dairy powder in stuff - why do they do it?!! It drives me mad. I went off dairy for a while (dry skin, long story) and it totally astonished me the amount of stuff dairy gets added to. Completely unnecessarily - I found some had even been added to a perfectly good salsa for Christ's sake! It must drive vegans mad. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. arianz Comment No. 1173949 June 20 14:47 Jay, I agree with you. Fake meats are just not a good idea... plus they require careful label reading--Quorn, for instance, has egg in it!Foods you could have eaten... well, heaps! Salads, grains, all the greens you liked (especially in this gorgeous season!), pulses on tap, tofu and obviously, fruit. On the point of eating out, many sandwich shops stock vegan fillings: usually, stuff like hummous is vegan, and so are the various broad bean, mushroom, tomato pates and so on. The trick is asking clairification while you order... qeustions like whether there is any dairy or eggs or things like that in vegetarian options and so on.Among the things I truly recommend, there are lentils, of various types, ranging from red split to black urad to Puys; seasonal vegetables such as broccoli, cauliflower, spinach...; the good ol'tattie! :-); cereals, like millet, buckwheat, quinoa...; and obviously tofu!I so look forward to reading your vegan restaurant experience!Arianz :-) Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. rdpmackie Comment No. 1174006 June 20 14:59 What you've experienced is the hardest week of being Vegan...the first. My wife and I went from washing our steaks down with meatshakes one evening to being Vegan the next morning, and faced a similar challenge: "What the hell are we going to eat?!" It took us a few weeks to get things sorted out, but much longer to become really satisfied with the completeness of our menu. This is simply because (as you found out) there's animal in everything! Why in blazes is there milk in salt and vinegar chips?? But now, shopping, eating, and cooking are all nearly as simple and as mindless as before, BUT flavor for flavor, satisfaction for satisfaction our Vegan food far surpasses what we ate as omnivores. We have figured out how to replicate all of our favorite dishes that we ate before the change. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. celticmiller Comment No. 1174027 June 20 15:05 Heston's remark about the fat in food making it more satisfying is interesting. Do you think that's why SAF went to all that bother with the fake cheese? Nuts are OK as a snack, but they can get pretty boring after a while. And making them into a main meal conjours images of Tom Lehrer's "penutbutter stew". If you didn't mind the smoked tofu you could have tried coating it in breadcrumbs and deep frying it - one way to up the fat content!! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. bioisy Comment No. 1174048 June 20 15:09 It takes a while for your sense of taste to adjust to a meat/fish/dairy free diet. But, and you have to trust me on this one, eventually even cheese will taste too fatty and intense (even cheese! I know! And I come from a cheese loving background!) . I've been a happy vegan for three years now (nearly to the day), cooking is more fun that ever and I have even managed to bake a lovely lemony cheese-free tofu(cheese) cake that works on its own right! And yes, I do hate fake meats as well as a principle. Vegan cooking just takes re-thinking and some trial and error, but I imagine any cooking experience does at first. And the net is a great place to look for info. Just don't make veganism look like a chore, it realt isn't! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. handee Comment No. 1174080 June 20 15:16 I did 2 years vegan (sorted out my eczema a treat). Tofu is best fried - it's that fat thing again. A good nut loaf is a wonderful thing, and roast dinners for me have always been more about the veggies than the meat even now I'm back being omnivorous, so a good roast nut loaf with bright green spring greens and veggie roast potatoes is a winner. Back to the ethnic food: Guacamole, bean chilli, tortillas/rice, salsa is a good combination. Curries (dahl, chana dahl, and the amazing curry-in-a-pancake masala dhosa) are great. Japanese noodles and Thai style stir fries (but make your own Thai pastes, those pesky shrimps get everywhere) are good staples. Rice salads -- this one is a fave http://www.plantsci ences.ucdavis. edu/uccerice/ EDITOR/bombay_ r.htmare good. Pasta with tomato based sauces (putanesca style) are fine; lasagne is a bit more of a bother because vegan cheese doesn't do the melty thing that you need it to. And shame on you for not reading the labels - you can't say you went vegan unless you did the label reading thing; you can spot new vegans in supermarkets because they take so long checking everything is OK. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. LittleShu Comment No. 1174085 June 20 15:17 Oh, Jay. Jay, Jay, Jay, Jay, Jay. Jay. It's all so much more complicated than this. You write, "..a few Kettle Chips because, well, what's not to like about deep-fried potato and salt?" This is what's not to like, Jay and my fellow Guardian readers:http://www.guardian .co.uk/business/ 2007/oct/ 09/money. retail Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. dhar Comment No. 1174086 June 20 15:18 Being vegan is not just about taste. If you can't raise your eyes above the sensation on your palate, you'll never understand vegans. Also, a new diet is something you need to get used to, so you should make allowances for that when trying them out. I'm not vegan, but I did stop drinking milk quite a few years ago - long story - and at first I hated soya milk/rice milk/hazelnut and almond milk. But now I like them all, and cow's milk tastes sickly to me. It's like an English-only speaker going to Spain and saying "my week speaking Spanish", and then coming to the conclusion that it's all gibberish. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. ravishing Comment No. 1174131 June 20 15:30 Vegans, they are being nice to you. Offering recipes, pointers, tips---sympathy. They like you. World order is being subverted. Now what are you going to do? Kill a few cats? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. CaroleBristol Comment No. 1174139 June 20 15:32 I think you lasted about as long as I would Jay. In fact I wouldn't last even that long because I cannot abide soya "milk" and I do not function without a strong mug of tea with milk in the morning and there is no way I'd eat cereals without proper milk either. I have to say that I often have meatless meals in the evenings during the week; tabbouleh is a staple at this time of the year and I love avocado and tomato salsa type things and also vegetable curries and dhals. My problem would be avoiding yogourt with the curry though, I love raita with dhal and I like feta in my tabbouleh or a tzakziki type of thing with it. To be honest though, even if I managed Monday to Thursday with a vegan menu, by Friday I'd be heading for the butcher for a thick cut ribeye steak and I'd probably eat it raw before getting it home and griddling it, I'd be that desperate. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. seventh Comment No. 1174141 June 20 15:32 [Deleted by moderator] Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. dhammadinna Comment No. 1174154 June 20 15:37 If you had been thinking more of the animals who suffer to produce meat and dairy, you would have been willing to persist and to find vegan foods that you like. You seem so proud of going back to spare ribs -- like, all this hippy stuff is proven wrong and you can be 'normal' again. It's a culture thing. At least you are trying to get advice on a good vegan diet. I hope you take some of it. On my experience (25 years vegan) you will find that your diet is much more agreeable without animal products. But above all, think of the animals. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. TwoOneStu Comment No. 1174168 June 20 15:39 I am not a vegan or a vegetarian. I have no dietary restrictions whatever. However, I think the argument against 'fake meat' is unbelievably stupid.You could just as easily ask, if people like meat so much, why do they have to make it into sausages, apice it, and grill it til it no longer resembles the pig it came off of any more than it resembles a soybean plant. Why wouldn't someone want quorn or tofu or tempeh 'sausages' or hot doges or burgers? It's only silly tradition that says we make such things out of meat. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. gondwanaland Comment No. 1174193 June 20 15:43 [Deleted by moderator] Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. squizzla Comment No. 1174205 June 20 15:45 if you're making a thai curry, coconut milk will give you the richness (and the fat) that you are missing - and tastes lovely with all those spices! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. IKNOWNOTHING Comment No. 1174236 June 20 15:53 Jay; you have to try Trinidadian: Roti, stuffed with curry pumpkin; garlic bodi (string beans); doubles (fried bake with chana curry & extras), to name three essentials. Oh, and pepper (red-hot chilli sauce) with everything except for ice cream. Once the flirtation with vegan is done, get stuck into the goat or shrimp curries.Best place I know is opposite Clapham North, not naming names, but you can't miss it... In fact, sod it, I'm going for doubles myself. Right now. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. alansynnott Comment No. 1174256 June 20 15:56 I, as a committed omnivore, would like to point out that museli (especially the low-sugar stuff) is best consumed with good quality apple juice instead of milk. That is all. Carry on. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. TonyChinnery Comment No. 1174260 June 20 15:57 I don't see why you're making such a big deal out of it. I've been nearly 'vegan' for 25 years (nearly because I don't eat dairy or meat but fish once a week). Just eat what you normally would but minus the meat, milk and cheese. And use olive oil instead of butter. There is a huge variety in the vegetable world, much more than meat, so there's no shortage of variety. The important thing is not to kill the vegetables by overcooking. Lightly steamed broccoli and other veg, with a drop of olive oil added on the plate. eaten with rice, potatoes or cus-cus (I don't know how you spell that). What more do you want?Of course in Italy where I live they still have real vegetables instead of the identically tasteless, cloned imitation stuff they sell in supermarkets in Britain. That's in fact the most important thing. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. kristofnews Comment No. 1174325 June 20 16:11 I enjoy a 100% plant based diet, mostly wholefood and organic when I can afford to -_^ My main motivation is my taste (I'm not an activist or an eco-freak... ) and the great pleasure to eat solely the food that I prefer. I have to say that I'm intolerant to milk which explains mainly why I'm turning away from any kind of milk product. You started with a very interesting point! In any industrial food products, you'll find milk, lactose or whey protein... and a multitude of other animal products (like gelatin, some food additives).. . It sounds crazy but it's really an issue. After having taken hours reading the composition of each product before picking one... it becomes quite clear that looking for non-processed food is a lot cheaper, easier and faster. As soon as you go for preparing your food, than you will discover a whole new approach of cooking... even though it's largely based on type of preparation that were well known some years back. Asia has a lot to offer (like the myriad of products based on soja bean). It's interesting to discover that you're now looking for a product as a whole and at every stage of its life-cycle (from sprout to fruits...). Plants are a great source of inspiration. .. and internet is offering great opportunities to find and share ideas, receipts... you'll discover a full range of new products and new ways to prepare them! To make a long story short, once you do something just because you love to do so, it becomes a lot easier... you follow your inspiration, your taste and every things goes find And don't worry about any kind of lack of vitamins or protein... once you have a balance diet, you just don't need any supplement. I'm running between 60-80km per week, enjoying trail running without having any kind of health issue. I've never be in a better shape actually... BUT please!!! don't go for a vegan diet if you're not inspired but it. Food is a vital form of individual freedom... so enjoy what you're eating. Chris Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. brownelf Comment No. 1174348 June 20 16:18 To the person above who claims that South Indian food is very vegan friendly -- um, no. I'm not anti-vegan, and have very happily (even unwittingly) gone vegan days at a time, but I'm South Indian and I have to tell you that yoghurt -- and milk-based sweets -- are an integral part of the cuisine. The traditional South Indian meal is 3 courses: rasam (a thin, usually lentil-based soup); rice or rice pancakes with various veg. curries etc.; and then always, always, yoghurt to finish. With rice if you like it that way, or plain, or a thin buttermilky verion to drink, but it's essential and said to help digestion. I point this out because I don't think there is any recorded evidence of a truly vegan food culture at any time in food history. Which is not to say that is a bad thing -- just that the argument that it's more "natural"/historica lly common for people to be vegan is, as far as I know, bunk. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. OrangeZonker Comment No. 1174374 June 20 16:25 Dhamma but above all we do think of the animals; roasted , fried baked, yummy, its what god made them for.. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. PowerValve Comment No. 1174401 June 20 16:32 Has nobody mentioned seitan? Much tastier than tofu, especially if you make it yourself - have a gander at http://vegetarian. about.com/ od/cookingtipsto ols/ss/HowToSeit an.htm Most vegetables are delicious if cooked properly, not the british boiled to death versions. It's probably why asparagus is so highly rated, being so expensive that people go to the effort to prepare it correctly, although sprouts, broccoli or cauliflower boiled for 5 minutes are just as tasty. For something simple, try chick peas with fried onions, fresh coriander chinese cabbage and ginger, serve with boiled spuds and smother the lot with olive oil. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. PowerValve Comment No. 1174419 June 20 16:35 re orange zonker, presumably God made you to post pathetic comments on blogs, not His greatest hour. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. badgerwoman Comment No. 1174425 June 20 16:37 Try being vegan if you have a wheat allergy! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. PowerValve Comment No. 1174450 June 20 16:41 re orange zonker, presumably God made you to post pathetic comments on blogs, not His greatest hour. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. LeftSaidThread Comment No. 1174480 June 20 16:48 I was vegetarian for about 20 years, from the age of six or seven. I managed to convince myself I wasn't missing out until I went back to meat and realised it is not replaceable and substitutes are rubbish. I feel more healthy, have more energy and have a greater selection of food to choose from. I still love my vegetables and don't eat much red meat as is too heavy. There is no such thing as cruelty free food. Think how many small mammals die whenever a wheat field is harvested. And people die every day as a indirect result of other's way of life. Plus, the animals you eat would never even have existed had people not chosen to eat them; providing they have a reasonably happy life (free-range) - it must surely be better than no life at all - but that's a philosophical point I guess. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. openKetchup Comment No. 1174503 June 20 16:55 What's the problem with meat-free substitutes? It's very simple: Some vegetarians/ vegans like the taste of meat but chose not to eat it for other reasons (morals, environment, health etc...). Why would such a person choose to deprive themselves of meat-free substitutes? I can understand if people think these substitutes are 'strange' or perhaps 'wrong', in their own way, but I can't understand people to fail to see the point of them. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. openKetchup Comment No. 1174522 June 20 16:59 What's the problem with meat-free substitutes? It's very simple: Some vegetarians/ vegans like the taste of meat but chose not to eat it for other reasons (morals, environment, health etc...). Why would such a person choose to deprive themselves of meat-free substitutes? I can understand if people think these substitutes are 'strange' or perhaps 'wrong', in their own way, but I can't understand people to fail to see the point of them. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. openKetchup Comment No. 1174524 June 20 16:59 What's the problem with meat-free substitutes? It's very simple: Some vegetarians/ vegans like the taste of meat but chose not to eat it for other reasons (morals, environment, health etc...). Why would such a person choose to deprive themselves of meat-free substitutes? I can understand if people think these substitutes are 'strange' or perhaps 'wrong', in their own way, but I can't understand people to fail to see the point of them. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. RERogers Comment No. 1174542 June 20 17:04 The nutty side of veganism is interesting. They would seem to be the obvious place to go for fat and protein but nut cheese does not sound overly appetizing. I'm surprised peanuts didn't figure more heavily, the satisfaction in peanut butter is one all children can attest to. During a year spent in Zambia I lived vegan by necessity rather than choice, as meat and dairy were virtually none existent in the bush. The loss of satisfying fatty food was far less after the "groundnut" season. Pretty much every stir-fry dish, even very simple cabbage and onions, becomes far more interesting and satisfying if you add a handful or two of peanut flour. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Leischa Comment No. 1174564 June 20 17:12 This is a good, and unsually open-minded, article. I've been vegetarian for more than 10 years, and vegan for about 5. It's the best decision I ever made, and has done wonders for my health. There are also plenty of good environmental and ethical reasons for a vegan diet. But I don't believe the point is for everyone to go vegan - it's not for everyone. Rather, omnivours should be encouraged to eat more vegan meals, and perhaps appreciate the meat they do eat more. It doesn't have to be either or. The problem is too many of us eat unconsciously - we're addicted to certain tastes, and we follow our cravings. Veganism forces you to reconsider what you put in your body, and I believe it is this, rather than the diet itself, that is empowering. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. toonbasedmanc Comment No. 1174589 June 20 17:22 There is a lot of food in the world that is wonderfully tasty and vegan - lots of meditteranean food for a start - it just isn't encumbered by the label. Pulses are good, as are nut roasts as suggested by earlier posters. I also used to love huge salads with sprouts and beans, soups and veg stews with herby dumplings etc (vegan suet). There are some 'fake' products that I would recommend like egg free mayonnaise, tofu and seaweed 'burgers' and swedish glace vegan ice cream but otherwise the best advice is to think about the non meat dairy things that you already eat and enjoy and to eat more of them! I was a vegan for 3 years and went back to being omnivorous predominantly because of the 'holier and better than thou' attitude of other vegans who equated dietary choices with child abuse and thought anyone not vegan was generally more unpleasant than Hitler and Stalin put together! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. AntonyVerus Comment No. 1174598 June 20 17:23 Veganism and other types Boutique Environmentalism are just a couple of ways human beings have invented to feel smug and superior and to put down other people. That's really what's at the core of it, not their love for the poor animals or poor Mother Earth. If Vegans and Vegetarians truly had solidarity with other human beings and animals then they'd just eat like people in most of the Third World, nay most human beings have done for thousands of years, meaning a mostly vegetable and grain based diet with rare and precious and infrequent animal protein used for flavoring. Occasionally for weddings and big holidays you roast a whole beast. Otherwise, you eat mostly vegetables with bits of eggs and dried little fish and scraps of offal when you can get them. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. seventh Comment No. 1174645 June 20 17:49 So my comment about devouring vegans was deleted, apparently. Cheer up you miserable bunch. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. spottiedog10 Comment No. 1174647 June 20 17:49 LeftSaidThread brings up a good point about veganism. The mere harvesting of plant materials often kills or displaces animals. Maybe not nice fluffy sheep and cows, but certainly invertebrates. The only lasting culture/religion that seems to have taken this into consideration, and thus could be used as an argumnet for veganism, seems to be the Jains, who theroretically won't eat anything that grows in the ground like potatoes as harvesting them could potentially harm something. Or would only eat fruit that is not too ripe in case insect larvae are killed, etc. Tricky dilemma for true vegans. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. rdpmackie Comment No. 1174651 June 20 17:53 I'm not Vegan AntonyVerus because of my love for all the dear animals of poor mother earth. To me it's an intellectual thing - an ethical thing. I simply think it's barbaric, neaderthal even to chop up other sentient beings into little pieces and eat them. Of course the environmental and health benefits of my choice are also nice. It's an unfortunate stereotype that vegans are all pasty, scrawny, hippies hugging kittens and trees. I'm 200lbs of terrifying strength, i ride a motorbike, i'm covered in tattoos, and could care less about bunny rabbits and kittens and doe-eyed cows. To me this is all about evolution, ethics, philosophy. I just can't picture an evolved humanity chopping up other sentient beings into little pieces and eating them. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. mijnheer Comment No. 1174657 June 20 17:56 toonbasedmanc writes: "I was a vegan for 3 years and went back to being omnivorous predominantly because of the 'holier and better than thou' attitude of other vegans who equated dietary choices with child abuse and thought anyone not vegan was generally more unpleasant than Hitler and Stalin put together!" The logic is impeccable. Personally, I went back to beating my wife because of the 'holier and better than thou' attitude of all those feminists who said wife-beating was evil. I guess I showed them! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. AntonyVerus Comment No. 1174665 June 20 18:01 So rdpmackie you've verified my point that Veganism is more about feeling smug and superior to other human beings - is that ethical? to feel that you're better just because you live in a 1st World culture that affords you the possibility to eat vegan and remain healthy? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. OrangeZonker Comment No. 1174694 June 20 18:14 PowerValveno, he created you for that role. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. paulatempest Comment No. 1174743 June 20 18:41 Hi Jay Have you come across Madhur Jaffrey's book World Vegetarian. Lots of inspiring and doable vegan recipes in there that don't rely totally on Thailand for their origins. My comment to you: must try harder. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Reditor Comment No. 1174762 June 20 18:53 Kudos to orange zonker ... it's the holier-than- thou types like dhamma who give vegans a bad name. So what's not to love about veganism? Well, besides the fact it ain't natural, as already pointed out, from an ecological standpoint, it takes crazy amounts of petrol to schlep exotic ingredients around the world; in part to avoid this expensive shipping, soy beans are planted on factory farms displacing heritage crops grown locally thus reducing biodiversity; to make soy grow in climates where it's not a "natural" crop, it's often subject to vast amounts of irrigation, pesticides, fertilizer, etc., etc. So the whole "good for the planet" thing needs a careful analysis ... a lot of that argument is pure bunkum. Then there's the serious scientific discussion about what happens to the human body when you overload the system w/ soy (the absolute rock-bottom staple of most vegan diets). Especially alarming are people more worried about dairy cattle than their own offspring. In the words of one researcher, "Infants fed soy-based formulas are part of a large, uncontrolled, and basically unmonitored human infant experiment, with uncertain risks and benefits."http://findarticles .com/p/articles/ mi_m0NAH/ is_2_29/ai_ 53929987/ pg_1?tag= artBody;col1 And as a lot of people do find soy to be essentially a bland, flavorless mush, they salt and fat the bejeezus out of it to make it into fake meat. Ever check the nutrition content on some of that stuff??? So the "it's healthier for you" argument also contains an amount of bull___t that renders it nonvegan if you swallow it whole. It's a choice. Fine, great, live and let live. But when the likes of dhamma try to ram their supposed moral superiority down my throat, it does make me (and apparently orange zonker, and a lot of others) want to run out and grab a cheeseburger. I promise not to invite you over for a barbecued steak (bloody rare, if you must know) if you promise to quit prostelytizing for your food cult. Me, I grew up around farmers. I know what goes into my food. I eat as much local/organic as I can. I'll put a locally grown, low-carbon-footprin t chicken up against a vegan curry any day as far as the moral high ground. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Arras Comment No. 1174766 June 20 18:56 Jay,I had read your review of the vegan restaurant and laughed as I had a friend (vegetarian) who used cold pressed safflower oil for her cooking, so everything tasted of it...and it had an accumulative factor so just smelling it would make me instantly not hungry....On the other hand, I had friends (I moved from the area, hence past tense) who used the book Laura's Kitchen as their cooking bible and they turned out some great dishes. The Moosewood (collective/ restaurant) put out some great books (not all vegan, but a good start), and I still use my copies as healthier choices for recipes. Did you check out any vegan cookbooks before starting your animal source fast? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. tromso Comment No. 1174818 June 20 19:20 What's the deal with the sudden flurry of (patronising, at best) articles on veganism in The Guardian this month? The overall tone of the articles is one of boorish anti-PC baiting glee, pre-emptive attacks supposedly justified by 'smug' or 'whiny' vegans. Sadly, your targets are either too polite, or insufficiently bothered about the approval of the braying 'gastro' classes, to provide the furore your columnists crave. All this 'carni-bore' desperation for conflict and offence just makes you look, well, desperate. Taking potshots at people who are trying to do their bit to live an ethical life, without harming anyone, and in the vast maojrity of cases, without preaching, comes across to the casual reader as exactly what it is - the work of ignorant bullies. A final thought: I somehow doubt that you would dare to mock a diet shaped by religous observance. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. digit Comment No. 1174823 June 20 19:22 I have no food rules, but, increasingly, I find veg is my preferred option. It makes me feel good in a way that goes beyond taste. I wolf down platefuls of it like a person who's been malnourished up to now. Perhaps I have. At some point, I went through a weird sort of revelatory process where I realised that the thing I liked best, which I was having on the side, could just be the main bit of the meal. The less mucked about with it is, the better I like it, ie. I don't tend to stew things much. Salad veg raw and the rest lightly steamed or, for the ratatouille veg, peppers, aubergines and courgettes, roasting works well. From there, you can mix with lentils or other beans and pulses, sprinkle with seeds etc. and season to your taste. The idea that it all has to be 'ethnic' seems a little unimaginative. Season it with thyme, basil or rosemary, to name but three, and it's tasty, but not ethnic. Simple really. Olive oil, sunflower oil and others take care of Blumenthal's fat concern, and in a way that won't raise your cholesterol. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. kyoto Comment No. 1174839 June 20 19:29 I think there are health benefits to a vegan diet. You will almost inevitably reduce your cholesterol levels, if that is a concern. For the average person who tries to follow a vegan diet, you may end up eating more salads and more vegetables in general. For a high end, high maintenance foodie (hello Jay), it is unlikely you will want to limit your options, which is fair enough, but there still might be no harm in balancing out all those steaks and factory chickens with the occaisonal lighter meal based on pulses and so on. There are other recipes you could use, of course, but it's best to look at some vegan cook books. My favourite is Isa Chandra Moskowitz. Jay is spot on about Japanese food. I lived in Japan for six years and loved the food there. I did eat fish admittedly, but also had some gorgeous vegan and vegetarian meals. Eating Japanese in England is a little expensive for most of us, but once you get hold of the aesthetic of Japanese style food, there is something about the cleanliness and lack of dairy which is addictive in its own way. Thai food is great, but coconut is very fattening if you decided to live off it. For other world foods, you could look at some of the World Cafe books from Covent Garden. For myself, I am veggie rather than vegan, but I have come across a lot of veggies who are sick of things like goat's cheese every time they eat out. Really well cooked vegan food could light up any mainstream menu and provide something lighter and cleaner than many of the exceedingly rich kind of dishes we usually find. Anyway, I think it's good you gave it a go. In my small town, I have been really surprised by the number of vegans I have across of all ages and outlooks. Only a very small number fit the cranky stereotype. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. horseless Comment No. 1174843 June 20 19:31 I've been a vegan for almost 20 years. I am not a chef but I am told that I make varied and tasty food which provides a balanced diet. How hard can it be? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. biba100mejico Comment No. 1174849 June 20 19:37 So at least you went into this with an open mind eh? This is obviously one of those Guardian ethics free zones.Like motorcycling across Latin American salt flats. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. SusanSmillie Comment No. 1174855 June 20 19:38 tromso - can I just direct you to the post below, Why are vegans so vilified, that we ran on Word of Mouth a couple of weeks ago, and that Jay linked to above? http://blogs. guardian. co.uk/food/ 2008/06/is_ veganism_ child_abuse. htmlOr, indeed, this other post below, The end of easy meat?, which we ran a week or so earlier on this blog, which generated lots of thoughtful conversation on both sides. http://blogs. guardian. co.uk/food/ 2008/05/vegetari anism.htmlAs editor of Word of Mouth, I believe we've been pretty even handed here. And, if you're interested, there will be some more coming up, from both sides of the debate on Sunday. Then I think we'll just leave it alone for a while! Thanks for your comment though. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. slimv Comment No. 1174859 June 20 19:41 wow! jay rayner's diet just sounds scarey. he eats, even as a vegan, so much heavy, sloppy, weighty food....it can't be good for his body or life energy or youthfulness. ... sure he's food writer so i suppose they adore cheese, oil, processed foods, heavy meats, thick sauces, potent proteins... but it all sounds too weighty unless you're an athlete this diet, and maybe i'm just freaking and reading between the lines...just sounds 'gross'. does a food writer have a responsibility to be a health writeris it ironic that a food writer is writing about the food and a diet that is possibly injurious for the body... who knows. eat on. there's too many on the planet as it is. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. slimv Comment No. 1174861 June 20 19:41 wow! jay rayner's diet just sounds scarey. he eats, even as a vegan, so much heavy, sloppy, weighty food....it can't be good for his body or life energy or youthfulness. ... sure he's food writer so i suppose they adore cheese, oil, processed foods, heavy meats, thick sauces, potent proteins... but it all sounds too weighty unless you're an athlete this diet, and maybe i'm just freaking and reading between the lines...just sounds 'gross'. does a food writer have a responsibility to be a health writeris it ironic that a food writer is writing about the food and a diet that is possibly injurious for the body... who knows. eat on. there's too many on the planet as it is. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Ieuan Comment No. 1174883 June 20 19:58 PowerValve said: "Has nobody mentioned seitan?" I'd completely forgotten about seitan. Many thanks, Powervalve for reminding me. I'm off to buy some high-gluten whole-wheat flour tomorrow. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. toodamnnice Comment No. 1174900 June 20 20:14 Hmmm. If ever an article was written before the event.... Then again, as a veggie of many years, I'd probably do the same if asked to write down my experiences of eating nothing but meat for a week. Maybe that would cure you of your cadaver eating obsession Jay - you must eat only meat for a week, no kind of vegetable matter allowed. See how you get on. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. biba100mejico Comment No. 1174901 June 20 20:15 So at least you went into this with an open mind eh? This is obviously one of those Guardian ethics free zones. Like motorcycling across Latin American salt flats. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. farofa Comment No. 1174905 June 20 20:15 Rice and beans (carioca i.e. brown - with fried onion and garlic added for the last 20 minutes or so of cooking - and with enough thick sauce to soak into some of the rice) with a special farofa (toasted manioc meal, in this case with fried onion, bits of olive and banana) sprinkled on top to make it slightly crunchy and even more tasty. On side, kale wilted in fried garlic and finely chopped onions (fry the garlic before the onion - odd eh?), with chips or fried manioc. Pasta or gnocchi with various types of good tomato sauce or with garlic and oil would be a good choice, I reckon, and bean stocks or mashed potato bases are lovely tasty and creamy for some soups. Fried would be the closest thing to my meat substitute: fried aubergine, potatoes, veggie kibe etc. Bread, olives, olive oil tomato and salt would have to serve in the place of cheese, as a nice accompaniment to wine. Can't help but think, though, that if vegans don't like the taste of meat, they should just eat chicken instead! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. badcat Comment No. 1174918 June 20 20:20 World's best vegan meal: Hobnobs and Laphroaig. World's second best (and incredibly filling and healthy, if fattening) vegan meal: Bean burrito with guacamole on the side. Here in Colorado we've got lots of Mexican restaurants, and can get good canned vegetarian refrieds in the grocery store; I think you've got them there, too. Serve with near-freezing beer (check to ensure filtering agents are OK) and lime. You can grow avocado trees indoors, if need be. Jay, you've got it easy. Because of family diabetes, I've recently been harried by my evil doctor into giving up all forms of _sugar_ (not just the non-vegetarian sugar with bone ash filtration). You lucky bugger, you can still have things like biscotti, luscious bittersweet chocolate-dipped marzipan chunks, chestnut truffles with brandy, macadamia brittle with high quality vanilla, deep chocolate sorbet with mint leaves, sharp lemon cake, baklava with rose water, ohhhh god, I'm dying. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. lighter Comment No. 1174931 June 20 20:30 I find it strange that vegans have not discovered what Greek cooking can do with pulses, olive oil, and herbs. It's vegan soul food, and unlike most other vegan food, it works well with wine. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. AntonyVerus Comment No. 1174933 June 20 20:31 Quinoa Soy Rhubarb Cake Turn oven on to 400° Drive to Whole Foods with a wad of cash in your Lexus, buy: 12 oz quinoa2 oz cashew butter4 oz of soy yogurt (plain)1/2c of agave nectar1/2 tsp of gray sea salt1/2 tsp of baking powder10 of rhubarb stalks.24oz of Evian water Set one rhubarb stalk aside. Boil quinoa and 9 chopped up rhubarb stalks in Evian water until cooked and soft. Take pan off heat and mix in remaining ingredients. Pour mixture into 9x9 cake pan and place it into oven. Bake for 2 hours. Call up Fiona Apple or Donald Watson and tell them about what a healthy cake you're making. Tally up all the carbon emissions it took to transport all these gourmet ingredients to your local Whole Foods and back home with you. Take the cake out of the oven and throw it away. Take the remaining stalk of rhubarb and pleasure yourself as best you can. (serves 1 pious Vegan, 0 calories) Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. willowlion Comment No. 1174937 June 20 20:33 yeah, well, as to the fake meat thing: I personally (vegan for 12 years) don't go for them much... but why shouldn't you/anyone? If they give you the taste/texture you are missing and fit in with your ethical choices why not? But I have to say... quorn (years of veggie-ism talking here) - yeugh... please find redwoods Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. ArchaeoArcanum Comment No. 1174938 June 20 20:33 As a confirmed carnivore married to a dedicated vegan, I feel your pain! One trick I learned long ago was spice, spice and more spice! Tofu (a substance that would be infinitely better suited to some sort of electrical insulation application rather than a foodstuff) is about as exciting as watching the Darts on telly. Even the Chinese long ago realised that "hey, this stuff tastes like crap" by itself. Its one redeeming quality is that it absorbs the flavour of pretty much anything it comes into contact with. Therefore, season often and season heavily. If you must cook with tofu, liberal use of soy sauce, black bean sauce or peppers can make the awful stuff almost palatable. Another tip is the frequent use of mushrooms... mushrooms of every shape and description. I've had great success with exotic mushrooms combined with wild rice. Even so, I still have moments when I can scarcely wait until I can sneak in the next evil chicken curry! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. stevlknevl Comment No. 1174942 June 20 20:35 ReditorIt's a choice. Fine, great, live and let live. But when the likes of dhamma try to ram their supposed moral superiority down my throat, it does make me (and apparently orange zonker, and a lot of others) want to run out and grab a cheeseburger. If you are going to participate in a dialogue about a vegan or vegetarian diet you really shouldn't get upset when someone who thinks differently from you makes their point of view known. Meat eaters are always accusing vegans of acting superior to them.AntonyVerusVeganism and other types Boutique Environmentalism are just a couple of ways human beings have invented to feel smug and superior and to put down other people. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Tigersnake Comment No. 1174945 June 20 20:35 Is anyone, apart from his bank manager and his mother,perhaps, really interested in Jay Rayner living as a vegan for a week, or even anything else in his life? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. kyoto Comment No. 1174955 June 20 20:48 archaeo "If you must cook with tofu, liberal use of soy sauce, black bean sauce or peppers can make the awful stuff almost palatable." The first thing is to get decent tofu. It is available in England and is manufactured in Malton, North Yorks. (I haven't said the brand name). Next thing it's important to press it out properly. Thirdly, to marinade overnight (or a few hours). I like shoyu or tamari, mirin and a little water with some sliced red chilli, sliced ginger and garlic. Fourthly, griddle. Result is very tasty. I usually serve with shi'itake gravy. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Ameliam Comment No. 1174985 June 20 21:08 There is a world of unintentionally vegan recipes: pasta and bean soup, chana masala, caponata, gazpacho, falafel, refried beans (minus the pig fat), grilled polenta, pan Catalan, stuffed vine leaves,borscht - the list is endless. Vegan food for me isn't about substitution, it's about old school peasant food mixed with hippy favourites. Brown rice rocks! Can't quite kick the oyster habit though. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. DamienLove Comment No. 1174994 June 20 21:16 As A vegetarian, I do not eat meet, as I feel it is unethical to kill animals for food. Therefore I have no problem eating tofu, as it is not dead animal. And that is why (most) vegetarian's/ vegan's eat tofu. It may taste like meat, but we don't not eat meat because of the taste, but because of the process behind it. Obviously this doesn't apply to all. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Reditor Comment No. 1175000 June 20 21:18 Stevl: You're right, I shouldn't have made dhamma write the original post telling Jay he wouldn't eat meat or dairy if he thought of the animals ... hell yes we meat eaters accuse some vegans of acting superior. How else are we to read a post where the basic assumption is that the only reason we eat meat is that we are unthinking oafs who haven't pondered the food chain? Who's looking down at whom? Have you or dhamma ever even been face to face with a cow? Scratched its belly? Milked it? Fed it? Seen it give birth? Fed its calf when the cow was dry? Felt its big, rough tongue on your hand as it ate a fistful of fresh grass? Held the rope when it was slaughtered (humanely)? Helped butcher it, preserving every precious morsel of its flesh you possibly could because you truly understood its sacrifice for your table? Modern cattle are great, dense, beautiful, hopeless eating and defecating factories, only outdone in the dim department by sheep and chickens. Ten thousand generations ago, they may have been majestic wild animals (suitable then as now for eating, procreation and being eaten by carnivores), but dairy cattle can no more live without care by humans than a hairless Chihuahua can survive in Alaska on its own. And almost every dairy cow I've ever seen in the flesh (numbering in the tens or possibly hundreds of thousands) is pretty damned contented with its life: A clean, warm barn, lots of food, open fields in good weather, prompt health care, protected from the elements and predators. No, I don't like the way factory farms raise many animals for meat -- without sufficient room to wander around, pumped full of growth hormones and the like -- but I don't eat much of that meat, either. I don't think it's healthy, I don't like what it does to the environment and it doesn't have much flavor. And I don't tell vegans (or vegetarians or fishatarians or people with religious strictures against certain foods) how to live. But when dhamma and his/her ilk tell me in essence I'm dense or else I would be a vegan too, yes, I tell them off. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. sugargirl Comment No. 1175032 June 20 21:59 I've been vegetarian for 20 years, and I can't see the point of meat substitutes either, and completely agree that the best meat-free meals are the ones that 'just happen' to be meat-free (I really don't like vegetarian restaurants for just that reason). I'm surprised that he didn't eat anything Italian - pasta with arrabiata or marinara sauce for example. Also, mushrooms on toast - lots of olive oil, chill and garlic, mmmmm -, jersey royals roasted in garlic and rosemary olive oil until crispy and golden...My mouth is watering, need to go and eat Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. astralandrew Comment No. 1175036 June 20 22:02 I hate to put a dampner on eating out as a vegan at a curry house - but i think most of them are likely to be cooking with Ghee? (clarified butter?????? ) ;-( Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Chandelia Comment No. 1175040 June 20 22:05 Cool discussion, my 11 year old just decided about a month ago to be vegan out of solidarity with all the male baby chicks that get wiped out cos they're no good for egg production; seriously one day he was shopping for fish, and cleaning it himself, the next he wouldn't even eat ice cream. Spontaneously. So now I have a cupboard full of soya milk and a freezer full of swedish glace. Thought I might get some good food ideas from this blog. If he's still vegan by the time his birthday comes round next month we'll probably try that place Saf. Wonder what he'll make of it. Thought I might make him that quinoa rhubarb cake suggested earlier by AntonyVerus but damn my local whole food rip off emporium is all out of agave nectar. who knows though - by July he may have returned to the true faith ie vegetarianism and we'll be back to the local pizza place. Jay yeah love the kitchen units but why is there a loo seat on top of the cooker? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. astralandrew Comment No. 1175043 June 20 22:06 "Remember what i told you" - lol Alex RIP x Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Chandelia Comment No. 1175044 June 20 22:07 Astralandrew you really know how to spoil a girl's night! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. LadyInRed Comment No. 1175047 June 20 22:10 Seriously, Jay Rayner, do you really feel that you really tried to eat vegan? I won't list the vegetables you do not mention (we all know what a vegetable is), nor the variety of rice dishes, or the possibilities of couscous or hummus or avocados or maize or, well, you get my point. There are heaps & barrows of all the food you didn't try. But staying to them, and them alone, would be easier if you avoided prepared foods (and in that, I include readymade pastas or sauces or stir-frys) and did all your cooking yourself - choosing vegetables, oils, spices you knew the contents of, not having to read ingredient lists... I am not a vegan and will not claim to have tried being one. I do however eat mostly vegetarian (including dairy and, once in a while, eggs) simply because I like it. The rich variety of taste you get by mixing vegetables, oil and spice is far superior to the variety of taste you get by mixing meat and butter... And I don't think avoiding dairy for a week (we're talking seven breakfasts, seven lunches and seven dinners, here!) would have had to be that difficult at all. But "eating all vegan is far easier than anyone would think" would maybe have been a more boring angle for you than "eating vegan is hell"?Remember, vegans EAT nuts, vegans AREN'T nuts... Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. astralandrew Comment No. 1175050 June 20 22:12 @ Chandelia "the true faith - Vegetarianism" You ARE joking? Your son sounds like a well-balanced child making positive, informed choices for himself!Vegetarianism is just watered down veganism.... .. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. bagshaw78 Comment No. 1175051 June 20 22:12 I am a meat eater but work as a vegan head chef and it is ceratianly a challenge. You cannot achieve the same depth of flavour, but i enjoy the job as it has made me go into greater detail with my knowledge of spices. Ethnic cookery is indeed the way to go. My hot tips? Reduced stocks with water used to soak pulses can be good - black or fava beans in particular have a good flavour. Use a bit of seaweed in soups. Fresh coconut cream can be good for enriching flavour and texture by adding some saturated fat. You can get away with using it in alot of different ways apart just asian cooking. Using really good quality seasonings is vital - don't just use standard brands of soy sauce, spend the extra and buy organic tamari, Clearspring is a good company if you can afford their stuff. For sweet flavours melted palm sugar (cheap as chips) can be as good as honey or better, or try using agave syrup. Mirin makes practically anything taste better. Booze based sauces are naturally rich as in meat cookery. Sadly there are almost no good vegan cookbooks ive found. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Chandelia Comment No. 1175068 June 20 22:32 @ astralandrew, yes i suppose i was being slightly tongue in cheek by that point. But i have thought of something Jay should have eaten; ratatouille. Delicious, nutritious,you can easily add protein if you want eg by sprinkling with toasted pine nuts and it is (almost) seasonal. With some hot fresh bread or plain boiled potatoes. And it's the name of quite a good cartoon film. What more could you want?! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Reditor Comment No. 1175077 June 20 22:43 @Chandelia:If you're looking for a good vegan food tip ... vegan stocks tend to be difficult to get depth of flavour, as many of the vegetable boullion mixes are milk-based. Instead, try grinding half a packet of high-grade herbal tea (a nice citrus blend works best) in your palm, then adding it as you saute your first batch of veggies, before adding any water.As long as it's reasonably well powdered, the bits become just another spice fleck in the finished soup or sauce, and no one will ever identify that "extra" kick of taste as Lemon Lift or what have you. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. laurabarton Comment No. 1175078 June 20 22:43 hallo Mr Rayner, I'm vegetarian not vegan, but a couple of years ago I discovered a recipe book from the Fresh restaurants in Toronto (http://www. juiceforlife. com/cookbook. html#) and found it so amazingly delicious that I ate vegan for two whole months without noticing. and to be honest, I've never felt better in my life. oh, and i'm with you on the fakin bacon front.ps may I raise an objection to the fruit plate as a vegetarian/vegan pudding? we get VERY bored of it. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Daisybell Comment No. 1175103 June 20 23:03 What about some less exotic stuff that is still Vegan? Baked beans come to mind - and I see from the label they are gluten free too. I think if I had to be vegan for a week I'd live on beans on toast! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. EquivalencyDalek Comment No. 1175128 June 20 23:21 Vegetarianism is relatively appealing but veganism is wilful alienation from the reality of one's own existence and mortality. What do baby vegans drink? And why do they drink it? Someone mentioned brown rice. Brown rice, like wholemeal pasta, is revolting, and nothing to do with vegetarianism, veganism or even eating well. It is a self-hate on a plate. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Aindriug Comment No. 1175144 June 20 23:27 Ultimately, why bother? Veganism is an idiotic idea, largely espoused by crypto-puritans and neo-ascetics, the culinary equivalent of a horsehair shirt. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Merseymike Comment No. 1175169 June 20 23:39 I see no reason why I should encourage eating disorders. The Portuguese grill sounds just great! As for vegan food - excuse me whilst I vomit.... Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. TeacherMan Comment No. 1175175 June 20 23:43 Meat free substitutes are garbage. Jay, what you like about meat is its flavor and its texture. Try this next time - get some dried oyster mushrooms, they have a lovely texture that's similar to chicken. The flavor elements in meat are the fat and the blood. Substitute olive oil or some kind of nut oil for the fat and use wine to simulate the blood, and use the same seasonings that you would on meat - garlic, ginger, onion or what have you. This will give you that "meaty flavor. Part of the reason you feel unsatisfied is because you're not getting the nutrition you need. Make sure you've got nuts, legumes or leafy greens going on. I know you'll think I'm a nut case, but I used to be like you. I loved steak and burgers and thought it was a crime against nature if they weren't served so rare they were bleeding. Giving up the cheese was much harder than giving up the meat. Now, I'm mostly a raw vegan. You see when you cook food, you destroy over half of the nutrients. Enzymes in food don't survive the cooking process. Once you feel what its like to not have the crap in your body that meat and dairy deposits, you'll never look back. Five days isn't nearly enough to experience any of the benefits of veganism. You carry chunks of meat in your intestine for YEARS! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. TeacherMan Comment No. 1175178 June 20 23:43 Meat free substitutes are garbage. Jay, what you like about meat is its flavor and its texture. Try this next time - get some dried oyster mushrooms, they have a lovely texture that's similar to chicken. The flavor elements in meat are the fat and the blood. Substitute olive oil or some kind of nut oil for the fat and use wine to simulate the blood, and use the same seasonings that you would on meat - garlic, ginger, onion or what have you. This will give you that "meaty flavor. Part of the reason you feel unsatisfied is because you're not getting the nutrition you need. Make sure you've got nuts, legumes or leafy greens going on. I know you'll think I'm a nut case, but I used to be like you. I loved steak and burgers and thought it was a crime against nature if they weren't served so rare they were bleeding. Giving up the cheese was much harder than giving up the meat. Now, I'm mostly a raw vegan. You see when you cook food, you destroy over half of the nutrients. Enzymes in food don't survive the cooking process. Once you feel what its like to not have the crap in your body that meat and dairy deposits, you'll never look back. Five days isn't nearly enough to experience any of the benefits of veganism. You carry chunks of meat in your intestine for YEARS! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. gondwanaland Comment No. 1175179 June 20 23:44 Jay, How come you look a dead ringer for Richard Reid the "shoe bomber"? This post has already been deleted, but a face is a face. No disrespect mate. Get yourself another mug shot. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. digit Comment No. 1175234 June 21 0:11 I bloody love brown rice, EquivalencyDalek. Nothing wrong with wholewheat pasta either. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Baronvonberghausen Comment No. 1175263 June 21 0:28 Right then, I'm a Vegan as is my wife. To answer the point made previously as to why people "bother" with fake meats is a pretty simple one. I like the taste of meat, I love it in fact. I'm sure 1000's of other vegetarians do too. If you could manufacture a product that smelt, tasted and had the texture of a good steak, or grilled salmon or baby back ribs, BUT wasn't, I would be all over it like stink on poo. I am against the mass exploitation of animals. Thats it. So what is wrong with fake products? My favourite being fake fish fingers or " Nish Fingers" as I call them. 85% of fresh water on this planet is used up by farming/livestock industries worldwide. If we only ate a fraction less meat, I'm sure the costs of basic foods wouldnt be anywhere near as high as is being predicted. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. OliviaC Comment No. 1175310 June 21 1:01 Summer pudding - real, delicious food which just happens not to have any dairy in it. I make this for my carnivorous friends every summer, when all the berries are most luscious and juicy, so it isn't a vegan-desperation- dish. All us non-vegans add lashings of cream, of course, but I imagine thinned coconut cream or soya cream would do. My Mum makes a big dish of roasted vegetables with a shitaake mushroom & polenta cake that's really fantastic. It happens to be vegan, although we tend to eat them with roast lamb. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Kepler Comment No. 1175326 June 21 1:10 A week of vegan cookery in the summer and not one mention of salad! Riffle through all those cookbooks, Jay. And don't knock the veggie burger, especially the Cauldron spinach and sweetcorn variety, it will make you feel way more energetic than what Jamie calls 'donkey bollock burger'. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Kepler Comment No. 1175328 June 21 1:11 A week of vegan cookery in the summer and not one mention of salad! Riffle through all those cookbooks, Jay. And don't knock the veggie burger, especially the Cauldron spinach and sweetcorn variety, it will make you feel way more energetic than what Jamie calls 'donkey bollock burger'. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. astralandrew Comment No. 1175688 June 21 9:20 As an advocate of vegan/vegetarianism on lots of levels (not for this thread) - i am appalled by this self-obssession i see here with peoples tastes in food!Why does everything have to be so 'satisfying' or 'deliciuos'! !It all sounds very much like 'addict' behaviour to me - always searching for that next food high/experience/ satisfaction - we seem to have forgotten that whatever we eat is a blessing and that a VERY large majority of the worlds population lives on either plain rice or maize based staples day in and day out!Its all very well for us to blog on the guradian slagging each others diets off, but, lets get some perspective here.We're not all followers of epicurus... Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. ciwstudent Comment No. 1175753 June 21 9:56 I am not a vegetarian and certainly not a vegan, in fact a week asa vegan would be horrible for me because all days that start without a nice cup of tea is destined to be a s__t day, and even UHT milk doesn't tast right in tea in my opinion.I also really like meat, so I have to respect people who give it up completly because of a lifestyle choice, if only for the reason that like running a four-minute- mile, it is something I couldn't do myself.I do have certain reservations about the point of view that verybdy should become vegan (as posted in an aricle on CIF not so long ago). For example, if nobody were to eat animals, leather production would be directly comperable ethically and environmentally as fur production is today, in that the animal 's only reason for existence as it were is to be killed for it's fur. Some people may have a different opinion but I beleive that for example a sheepskin coat is ethically "better" than a mink (or whatever) one because somebody would have eaten the animal, perhaps after it had been shorn a few times for wool production as opposed to bein killed, skinned, and incinerated.And as to the fake leather alternative, perhaps if I am wrong somebody can correct e if I am wrong, but as far as I know it is essentially made out of PVC (polyvinyl chloride). The base for tins substance is, of course, fosil fuels, the usage of which we ought to inhibit. I have no idea what the difference in carbon footprint is, but it would be interesting! One thing that i like to eat which happens to be vegan is gazpacho (spanish cold soup). It may sund dd, but it really is very nice! Oh dear, that was a long post. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. ciwstudent Comment No. 1175754 June 21 9:56 I am not a vegetarian and certainly not a vegan, in fact a week as a vegan would be horrible for me because all days that start without a nice cup of tea is destined to be a s__t day, and even UHT milk doesn't tast right in tea in my opinion.I also really like meat, so I have to respect people who give it up completly because of a lifestyle choice, if only for the reason that like running a four-minute- mile, it is something I couldn't do myself.I do have certain reservations about the point of view that verybdy should become vegan (as posted in an aricle on CIF not so long ago). For example, if nobody were to eat animals, leather production would be directly comperable ethically and environmentally as fur production is today, in that the animal 's only reason for existence as it were is to be killed for it's fur. Some people may have a different opinion but I beleive that for example a sheepskin coat is ethically "better" than a mink (or whatever) one because somebody would have eaten the animal, perhaps after it had been shorn a few times for wool production as opposed to bein killed, skinned, and incinerated.And as to the fake leather alternative, perhaps if I am wrong somebody can correct e if I am wrong, but as far as I know it is essentially made out of PVC (polyvinyl chloride). The base for tins substance is, of course, fosil fuels, the usage of which we ought to inhibit. I have no idea what the difference in carbon footprint is, but it would be interesting! One thing that i like to eat which happens to be vegan is gazpacho (spanish cold soup). It may sund dd, but it really is very nice! Oh dear, that was a long post. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Clevo Comment No. 1175817 June 21 10:40 Your description of your few days does not justify the title "My vegan hell". One or two difficulties with bad labelling seems to be all. You didn't actually feel bad or ill on it, I gather. Nor did you eat so much soya products that you went downhill. Like one of your correspondents, my wife and I went from vegetarian to vegan for two years, and suffered fron soya interference in body chemistry, not from lack of tasty food. You also keep on buying factory-made rubbish. Nearly all factory food is deader than expired animal bodies. No live enzymes. Five days is nothing. Like an M.P. spending a week in a council house on Benefits to learn how "they" live. Still, it did earn something from the paper. Wish I'd written it and got the cheque. Yours, O.A.P. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. richl Comment No. 1176034 June 21 12:37 "soya interference in body chemistry" What does this mean? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. SelahWrites Comment No. 1176128 June 21 13:32 Thanks for going vegan - if even for such a short amount of time. I am always grateful when we get media attention (even negative) because maybe, just maybe, someone out there reading your article may start thinking about the suffering wrought on animals by our hands. For me, as an ethical vegan, reduction of suffering is my goal and objective, and every person who adopts a vegan life adds to the reduction of suffering of all sentient beings, the animals along with those whose livlihoods require them to work in factory farming environments. Veganism also significantly reduces global warming, an added bonus. Many of the commenters are on point when they address that you went through the toughest part of going vegan in the first week (well, 5 days.) Being vegan is a learning process, and one of the first pitfalls are the hidden ingredients one would never expect to find in foods, like the nuts with the dairy you discovered. It is a common misconception that vegans are saintly and virtously pure in their veganism from the minute the decision is made. That is not the case for most. We all have experienced that dreadful realization of consuming something that had something in it that we were blissfully unaware was an animal product, like isinglass in some beers. For that reason, you'll see vegans pouring over ingredient lists and sharing newfound "accidentally" vegan foods information among the vegan community. The same holds true for all other foods. We exchange recipes, have wonderful collections of cookbooks, and help each other with techniques and menu plans. I agree with your analog meat issue. I don't personally like them, and I don't like to pay the premium prices on them. They are the vegan equivalent of Hamburger Helper and about as nutritious as a salt shaker. Again, my gratitude to you for getting the word out there that vegans exist, that we do eat, and that it is possible, even if you didn't have the most wonderful experience. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. vivisexy Comment No. 1176291 June 21 15:55 as is already refered to, veganism is not a mere diet... it is a lifestyle and encompasses many other things than just the food we eat. I have followed a vegan diet for 13 years now, for many reasons - eating organic, vegan and local and non-processed means minimising one's ecological impact and not supporting agri-business and harmful industries. veganism has been embraced by many diverse sub-cultures - think of straight-edgers, many buddhists, rock-a-billy, anarchists and health-fanatics. Being conscious of avoiding additives, highly processed products, produce of the largest irreverent transnational corporations that are maximising their control over the food chain from land-ownership/ management, oil-based fertilizers, supply and distribution as well as the promotors of the profit-driven GM developments. ... and so it goes on. I, for one, eat delicious food, all the more so for the fact that I know that I am not supporting practices which compromises human rights and the environment. Purely looking at the taste of food, with pre-programmed ideas of what is 'good', is a symptom of the ever-isolated hedonsitic self. the squatting scene in the netherlands, the world-spread food-not-bombs groups and many other socially active grassroots kitchens are vegan for all and many other reasons above. Chefs recognsise that vegans consistently cook in a superior fashion to vegetarians. for some of the amazing vegan cooks out there, check out: www.theppk.com, and the supremely class www.govegan. net exploring veganism leads one into radical and creative politics, wonderful health and a clear mind... the ultimate 'cool'ness.. . veganism is for me the only way to live ethically and morally in a world that is increasingly product and instant-satisfactio n directed... consider it! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. RastaChef Comment No. 1176364 June 21 16:58 ""soya interference in body chemistry" What does this mean?" Soy contains phytoestrogens (plant hormones) which are thought to interfere with the function of the human body. I don't know much about it as I haven't read any scientific studies on soy consumption, but there have been claims that soy gives you man-boobs, gives you cancer, or turns you gay(!). As the claim that soy turns you gay was made by a homophobic christian nutjob, I think it's safe to ignore that one. If soy caused cancer or horbmone imbalances or anything like that, wouldn't it have been noticed amongst populations that eat a lot of tofu, i.e. some Chinese people? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. laurabarton Comment No. 1176392 June 21 17:19 Rastachef, there's some interesting thoughts on the subject of soya and health here: http://www.guardian .co.uk/food/ Story/0,, 1828158,00. html Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Peter vv Sent from Mail. A Smarter Email. Sent from Mail. A Smarter Email. “We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out.†- Bill Moyers “We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out.†- Bill Moyers Sent from Mail. A Smarter Email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Thanks --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:Peter VV <swpgh01Re: My Vegan Hell - what about beer? Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 5:07 PM Yes we do, and yes there are, The UK is probably on eof the worst for non vegan beer, I will let Fraggle fill you in on beer, he is the undisputed champ....... ....... Peter vv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 ha.... yes, the UK is the least vegan beer place in the world Peter VV Jun 22, 2008 2:07 PM Re: My Vegan Hell - what about beer? Yes we do, and yes there are, The UK is probably on eof the worst for non vegan beer, I will let Fraggle fill you in on beer, he is the undisputed champ.............. Peter vv Beatriz <searchingalight > Sent: Sunday, 22 June, 2008 9:56:47 PMRe: My Vegan Hell - what about beer? You mentioned beer?Do we also have this problem with beer?Any vegan-safe brands of beer ?--- On Sun, 6/22/08, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> wrote: fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>Re: My Vegan Hell@gro ups.comSunday, June 22, 2008, 2:05 PM sulfites are added to wines to prevent bacterial and microbial growth within the wine, and to impede oxidation it's basically added to wine to make it last longer. all wines contain some sulfites (they are natural in grapes), but most wineries add sulfites for the above. as i said, finings don't have to be listed. same as isinglass in beer. since it's technically in the end product, its not listed. wines can be fined with a variety of non-animal products, such as bentonite (a clay) Beatriz Jun 22, 2008 10:20 AM @gro ups.com Re: My Vegan Hell does this stuff: gelatine, albumin... come listed on the label?I just checked a bottle I have here, it just says it contains sulfites, nothing else..The real stuff, I mean good quality wine shouldnt contain anything beyond grapejuice, and ,ok preservatives. No colourings, no flavourings. . and what should the gelatine do there--- On Sun, 6/22/08, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> wrote: fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>Re: My Vegan Hell@gro ups.comSunday, June 22, 2008, 1:01 PM some wines use isinglass, some use gelatin, some use egg albumen, etc....there' s a host of wines that have some animal product in em unfortunately look for wines listed as vegan, organic, or kosher. Peter VV Jun 22, 2008 9:20 AM @gro ups.com Re: My Vegan Hell Its the fining process, where they use isinglass ( swim bladder from a fish )or blood to clear the wine. Thee are some vegan wines out there , most come from S Africa or Australia, & USA. Peter vv Peter <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSunday, 22 June, 2008 9:34:54 AMRe: My Vegan Hell Hi Beatriz Most wine is made using a variety of additives, many of which are from animal based sources. I don't drink, so have limited knowledge of this sort of thing, but I know that most red wine, in particular, isn't vegan! BB Peter - Beatriz @gro ups.com Sunday, June 22, 2008 12:32 AM Re: My Vegan Hell Now, what the heck is vegan wine??? :oAs far as I know wine is made with grapes, which are pressed and fermented.What am I missing here?Thanks,Beatriz--- On Sat, 6/21/08, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote: Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com>Re: My Vegan Hell@gro ups.comSaturday, June 21, 2008, 3:15 PM Jay Rayner struggles through a week on a vegan diet June 20, 2008 1:25 PM Jay Rayner, vegan extraordinaire, prepares a meat-free, dairy-free feast. Photograph by Romas Foord My first thought, after taking the call from my editor was: what did I ever do to hurt her? After that it occurred to me that if, as she had asked, I went vegan for a week, I would at least be able to claim experience whenever I was explaining why I thought such a diet was the devil's work. Plus, as a journalist, I could see the news value. Only a week or so back, we were debating the merits of the vegan diet here on Word of Mouth. Coincidentally I also reviewed a vegan restaurant recently. I even managed to find a few things to like. So, one Tuesday, I headed off to the centre of London for a huge steak, at the rather wonderful Albemarle, and then embarked on my vegan purdah. You'll see, if you read the piece, that I faced some interesting and curious complications. For me the most interesting issue was the profile of the food I made for myself. I have long said that I abhor any meat free cookery, which tries to mimic the meat eating world. I would have no truck with 'Fakin', the bacon substitute. I would have nothing to do with Quorn or veggie burgers or any of that bizarre stuff carrying the name of the sainted Linda McCartney. Anything I cooked - including at a dinner party for eight - had to be food which just happened to be vegan. Perhaps inevitably I found myself heading down the ethnic route. A lot of noodles. A lot of miso and sweet chilli sauce. Stir fries. Curries. I did eat a little smoked tofu, but there's only so much of that I could take. My (first) downfall came via a surprising area: nuts. I thought that nuts would be my friend but it was not so: It is towards the end of my first 24 hours as a vegan, at the point when I discover I have already failed, that I begin to despair. How was I supposed to know there would be dairy products in a bag of nuts? Who the hell decided that putting dried milk powder in with the lemon and coriander flavoured cashews and macadamias was a good idea? Jay's Thai curry, lovingly prepared for his guests and himself. Photograph: Romas Foord Below are some edited extracts from the piece so that you can decide for yourself whether I was conscientious in my observance. Day one: I had bought rice noodles and smoked tofu and sweet chilli sauce and spring onions and that evening I use them to make a reasonable stir fry. I even decide that smoked tofu, with its dense, almost meaty texture, isn't half bad. The next morning I decide that soya milk and soya yoghurt are just about OK on my All-Bran, even allowing for the slight aftertaste of sawdust. At lunchtime I have more noodles and smoked tofu in miso soup. I eat fresh fruit. Later, I make a rather good Thai green curry full of roasted mushrooms and baby corn cobs and caramelised onions. It is fabulous; rich and dense and spicy and fulfilling and entirely vegan. Until, that is, I study the ingredients on the jar of Thai green curry paste: it's got crushed shrimp in it. Bloody hell. This isn't fair. I bought it at the uber veggie, all-the-wheatgrass- you-can-eat health-food shop. Day two (the restaurant trip): I have some falafel made from broad beans which are really just the victory of the deep-fat fryer ... I follow that with aubergine teriyaki which is nothing of the sort. Teriyaki suggests a sweet, sticky, dark soy-based sauce. This is a roll of chargrilled aubergine stuffed with ground-down mushrooms and something called pesto, which isn't. On the side are some stir-fried noodles with vegetables. Pretty much the same thing I made for myself a few nights before. I reach a conclusion: ethnic is the default position for the vegan. At the end I have a vegan rhubarb crumble, with a topping like cement and vegan custard (a combination of cornflour, water and flavourings) . Day three: There's another problem that's bugging me: finding something to eat when I am outside the house. In the world of the cheese sandwich, the vegan options are few and far between ... The solution? Go ethnic. But of course. I pull up a stool at a branch of Yo! Sushi and give thanks for the Japanese. A few Japanese pickle maki rolls and vegetable dumplings later the job is done. I am fed. Day four: Damn it all. I just ate some cow ... But I have started filming an edition of Channel 4's Dispatches, about the rising cost of food. (screens Monday night.) We are shooting a sequence in a Chinese restaurant ... I do my thing for the camera, explaining about China's growing beef habit and, to illustrate the point, pick up a cube of meat with my chopsticks. It dangles before my lips ... we all know the sequence doesn't work unless, at the end, I pop the meat into my mouth. And I do. It's delicious. It's the best piece of beef I have ever tasted. Later (the dinner party): The starter is easy, if labour intensive. It is asparagus season. I marinate armfuls in a mixture of soy, lemon juice and maple syrup, then chargrill them ahead of time on the skillet. There will be bowls of olives and marinated artichokes and a few Kettle Chips because, well, what's not to like about deep-fried potato and salt? The main course is more of a challenge because I don't want to succumb to the ethnic clichés, but nothing else seems to work. In the end I make a powerful Thai red curry, using a paste that contains no shrimps, and fill it with roast butternut squash and taut little Thai aubergines and coriander. We finish with a huge platter of fresh fruit, a plate of my wife's chocolate-chip biscotti, made to an entirely vegan recipe, and some vegan wine. Day five: It is Sunday and, coincidentally, the restaurant I have reviewed for the Observer is a smartypants vegan joint called Saf in London's Shoreditch, which makes a weird version of cheese out of nuts tortured to within an inch of their lives, and where a plate of mushed-up, stacked vegetables is called a lasagne. It is nothing of the sort. Later I phone Heston Blumenthal of the Fat Duck for some insight. I tell him what I am doing and there is a long hiss of breath from the end of the phone. He has known me quite a while, and understands my attachment to animals, particularly dead cooked ones. I want to know why the food I have been eating has been so much less satisfying. He tells me it's because it's low in fat. 'Flavour molecules dissolve in fat,' he says, 'so you're not getting the flavour hit you're used to.' I shouldn't feel bad about this. 'We are genetically hard-wired to crave fat,' he says, 'because it's a source of energy.' Going vegan, doing it properly, is therefore not something you can embark upon casually. I decide five days is enough. My wife asks me what I'm planning for my vegan dinner that evening. I say, 'Spare ribs and chorizo from the Portuguese grill house up the road.' The question is, did I miss a trick? I would genuinely appreciate some ideas from the rest of you for food I could have eaten. Remember the rules: no dairy, no eggs, no honey and, obviously enough, no meat or fish. The no pretend meat rule is mine. Perhaps you want to argue I'm wrong on that one. Please educate me and, in the process, the rest of us. Comments Please note: In order to post a comment you need to be registered and signed in for guardian.co. uk blogs. You can register here. catlily Comment No. 1173643 June 20 13:46 Definitely with you on the fake meat things - I just don't see the point of it. I am, however, quite surprised you didn't realise that Thai curry paste would have either shrimp paste or those tiny dried crushed shrimp in. And what about the fish sauce? Did you eschew that? I think North African/Middle Eastern food is very vegan friendly especially when serving a lot of people - there are enough vegan dips, falafel, that kind of thing, then salads, a big vegetable terrine, couscous.... easy. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. catlily Comment No. 1173653 June 20 13:48 Whoops, meant to say tagine, not terrine! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Intrigued Comment No. 1173675 June 20 13:52 Indian food and particulary south Indian is vegan-friendly. My wife went vegan for lent and we seemed to survive. Suprised to see that you didn't try rice and lentils (dhal) -- a vegan staple across South Asia! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. billbushell Comment No. 1173797 June 20 14:16 shouldn't you read the label BEFORE you use them? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. TimHayward Comment No. 1173835 June 20 14:24 I just keep looking back at the top of this post to the tags... Jay Rayner/Vegetarian To think that I would live to see it. I think I'll have it made into a tee-shirt. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. SusanSmillie Comment No. 1173913 June 20 14:40 I like your kitchen cabinets Jay! The dairy powder in stuff - why do they do it?!! It drives me mad. I went off dairy for a while (dry skin, long story) and it totally astonished me the amount of stuff dairy gets added to. Completely unnecessarily - I found some had even been added to a perfectly good salsa for Christ's sake! It must drive vegans mad. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. arianz Comment No. 1173949 June 20 14:47 Jay, I agree with you. Fake meats are just not a good idea... plus they require careful label reading--Quorn, for instance, has egg in it!Foods you could have eaten... well, heaps! Salads, grains, all the greens you liked (especially in this gorgeous season!), pulses on tap, tofu and obviously, fruit. On the point of eating out, many sandwich shops stock vegan fillings: usually, stuff like hummous is vegan, and so are the various broad bean, mushroom, tomato pates and so on. The trick is asking clairification while you order... qeustions like whether there is any dairy or eggs or things like that in vegetarian options and so on.Among the things I truly recommend, there are lentils, of various types, ranging from red split to black urad to Puys; seasonal vegetables such as broccoli, cauliflower, spinach...; the good ol'tattie! :-); cereals, like millet, buckwheat, quinoa...; and obviously tofu!I so look forward to reading your vegan restaurant experience!Arianz :-) Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. rdpmackie Comment No. 1174006 June 20 14:59 What you've experienced is the hardest week of being Vegan...the first. My wife and I went from washing our steaks down with meatshakes one evening to being Vegan the next morning, and faced a similar challenge: "What the hell are we going to eat?!" It took us a few weeks to get things sorted out, but much longer to become really satisfied with the completeness of our menu. This is simply because (as you found out) there's animal in everything! Why in blazes is there milk in salt and vinegar chips?? But now, shopping, eating, and cooking are all nearly as simple and as mindless as before, BUT flavor for flavor, satisfaction for satisfaction our Vegan food far surpasses what we ate as omnivores. We have figured out how to replicate all of our favorite dishes that we ate before the change. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. celticmiller Comment No. 1174027 June 20 15:05 Heston's remark about the fat in food making it more satisfying is interesting. Do you think that's why SAF went to all that bother with the fake cheese? Nuts are OK as a snack, but they can get pretty boring after a while. And making them into a main meal conjours images of Tom Lehrer's "penutbutter stew". If you didn't mind the smoked tofu you could have tried coating it in breadcrumbs and deep frying it - one way to up the fat content!! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. bioisy Comment No. 1174048 June 20 15:09 It takes a while for your sense of taste to adjust to a meat/fish/dairy free diet. But, and you have to trust me on this one, eventually even cheese will taste too fatty and intense (even cheese! I know! And I come from a cheese loving background!) . I've been a happy vegan for three years now (nearly to the day), cooking is more fun that ever and I have even managed to bake a lovely lemony cheese-free tofu(cheese) cake that works on its own right! And yes, I do hate fake meats as well as a principle. Vegan cooking just takes re-thinking and some trial and error, but I imagine any cooking experience does at first. And the net is a great place to look for info. Just don't make veganism look like a chore, it realt isn't! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. handee Comment No. 1174080 June 20 15:16 I did 2 years vegan (sorted out my eczema a treat). Tofu is best fried - it's that fat thing again. A good nut loaf is a wonderful thing, and roast dinners for me have always been more about the veggies than the meat even now I'm back being omnivorous, so a good roast nut loaf with bright green spring greens and veggie roast potatoes is a winner. Back to the ethnic food: Guacamole, bean chilli, tortillas/rice, salsa is a good combination. Curries (dahl, chana dahl, and the amazing curry-in-a-pancake masala dhosa) are great. Japanese noodles and Thai style stir fries (but make your own Thai pastes, those pesky shrimps get everywhere) are good staples. Rice salads -- this one is a fave http://www.plantsci ences.ucdavis. edu/uccerice/ EDITOR/bombay_ r.htmare good. Pasta with tomato based sauces (putanesca style) are fine; lasagne is a bit more of a bother because vegan cheese doesn't do the melty thing that you need it to. And shame on you for not reading the labels - you can't say you went vegan unless you did the label reading thing; you can spot new vegans in supermarkets because they take so long checking everything is OK. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. LittleShu Comment No. 1174085 June 20 15:17 Oh, Jay. Jay, Jay, Jay, Jay, Jay. Jay. It's all so much more complicated than this. You write, "..a few Kettle Chips because, well, what's not to like about deep-fried potato and salt?" This is what's not to like, Jay and my fellow Guardian readers:http://www.guardian .co.uk/business/ 2007/oct/ 09/money. retail Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. dhar Comment No. 1174086 June 20 15:18 Being vegan is not just about taste. If you can't raise your eyes above the sensation on your palate, you'll never understand vegans. Also, a new diet is something you need to get used to, so you should make allowances for that when trying them out. I'm not vegan, but I did stop drinking milk quite a few years ago - long story - and at first I hated soya milk/rice milk/hazelnut and almond milk. But now I like them all, and cow's milk tastes sickly to me. It's like an English-only speaker going to Spain and saying "my week speaking Spanish", and then coming to the conclusion that it's all gibberish. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. ravishing Comment No. 1174131 June 20 15:30 Vegans, they are being nice to you. Offering recipes, pointers, tips---sympathy. They like you. World order is being subverted. Now what are you going to do? Kill a few cats? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. CaroleBristol Comment No. 1174139 June 20 15:32 I think you lasted about as long as I would Jay. In fact I wouldn't last even that long because I cannot abide soya "milk" and I do not function without a strong mug of tea with milk in the morning and there is no way I'd eat cereals without proper milk either. I have to say that I often have meatless meals in the evenings during the week; tabbouleh is a staple at this time of the year and I love avocado and tomato salsa type things and also vegetable curries and dhals. My problem would be avoiding yogourt with the curry though, I love raita with dhal and I like feta in my tabbouleh or a tzakziki type of thing with it. To be honest though, even if I managed Monday to Thursday with a vegan menu, by Friday I'd be heading for the butcher for a thick cut ribeye steak and I'd probably eat it raw before getting it home and griddling it, I'd be that desperate. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. seventh Comment No. 1174141 June 20 15:32 [Deleted by moderator] Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. dhammadinna Comment No. 1174154 June 20 15:37 If you had been thinking more of the animals who suffer to produce meat and dairy, you would have been willing to persist and to find vegan foods that you like. You seem so proud of going back to spare ribs -- like, all this hippy stuff is proven wrong and you can be 'normal' again. It's a culture thing. At least you are trying to get advice on a good vegan diet. I hope you take some of it. On my experience (25 years vegan) you will find that your diet is much more agreeable without animal products. But above all, think of the animals. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. TwoOneStu Comment No. 1174168 June 20 15:39 I am not a vegan or a vegetarian. I have no dietary restrictions whatever. However, I think the argument against 'fake meat' is unbelievably stupid.You could just as easily ask, if people like meat so much, why do they have to make it into sausages, apice it, and grill it til it no longer resembles the pig it came off of any more than it resembles a soybean plant. Why wouldn't someone want quorn or tofu or tempeh 'sausages' or hot doges or burgers? It's only silly tradition that says we make such things out of meat. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. gondwanaland Comment No. 1174193 June 20 15:43 [Deleted by moderator] Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. squizzla Comment No. 1174205 June 20 15:45 if you're making a thai curry, coconut milk will give you the richness (and the fat) that you are missing - and tastes lovely with all those spices! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. IKNOWNOTHING Comment No. 1174236 June 20 15:53 Jay; you have to try Trinidadian: Roti, stuffed with curry pumpkin; garlic bodi (string beans); doubles (fried bake with chana curry & extras), to name three essentials. Oh, and pepper (red-hot chilli sauce) with everything except for ice cream. Once the flirtation with vegan is done, get stuck into the goat or shrimp curries.Best place I know is opposite Clapham North, not naming names, but you can't miss it... In fact, sod it, I'm going for doubles myself. Right now. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. alansynnott Comment No. 1174256 June 20 15:56 I, as a committed omnivore, would like to point out that museli (especially the low-sugar stuff) is best consumed with good quality apple juice instead of milk. That is all. Carry on. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. TonyChinnery Comment No. 1174260 June 20 15:57 I don't see why you're making such a big deal out of it. I've been nearly 'vegan' for 25 years (nearly because I don't eat dairy or meat but fish once a week). Just eat what you normally would but minus the meat, milk and cheese. And use olive oil instead of butter. There is a huge variety in the vegetable world, much more than meat, so there's no shortage of variety. The important thing is not to kill the vegetables by overcooking. Lightly steamed broccoli and other veg, with a drop of olive oil added on the plate. eaten with rice, potatoes or cus-cus (I don't know how you spell that). What more do you want?Of course in Italy where I live they still have real vegetables instead of the identically tasteless, cloned imitation stuff they sell in supermarkets in Britain. That's in fact the most important thing. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. kristofnews Comment No. 1174325 June 20 16:11 I enjoy a 100% plant based diet, mostly wholefood and organic when I can afford to -_^ My main motivation is my taste (I'm not an activist or an eco-freak... ) and the great pleasure to eat solely the food that I prefer. I have to say that I'm intolerant to milk which explains mainly why I'm turning away from any kind of milk product. You started with a very interesting point! In any industrial food products, you'll find milk, lactose or whey protein... and a multitude of other animal products (like gelatin, some food additives).. . It sounds crazy but it's really an issue. After having taken hours reading the composition of each product before picking one... it becomes quite clear that looking for non-processed food is a lot cheaper, easier and faster. As soon as you go for preparing your food, than you will discover a whole new approach of cooking... even though it's largely based on type of preparation that were well known some years back. Asia has a lot to offer (like the myriad of products based on soja bean). It's interesting to discover that you're now looking for a product as a whole and at every stage of its life-cycle (from sprout to fruits...). Plants are a great source of inspiration. .. and internet is offering great opportunities to find and share ideas, receipts... you'll discover a full range of new products and new ways to prepare them! To make a long story short, once you do something just because you love to do so, it becomes a lot easier... you follow your inspiration, your taste and every things goes find And don't worry about any kind of lack of vitamins or protein... once you have a balance diet, you just don't need any supplement. I'm running between 60-80km per week, enjoying trail running without having any kind of health issue. I've never be in a better shape actually... BUT please!!! don't go for a vegan diet if you're not inspired but it. Food is a vital form of individual freedom... so enjoy what you're eating. Chris Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. brownelf Comment No. 1174348 June 20 16:18 To the person above who claims that South Indian food is very vegan friendly -- um, no. I'm not anti-vegan, and have very happily (even unwittingly) gone vegan days at a time, but I'm South Indian and I have to tell you that yoghurt -- and milk-based sweets -- are an integral part of the cuisine. The traditional South Indian meal is 3 courses: rasam (a thin, usually lentil-based soup); rice or rice pancakes with various veg. curries etc.; and then always, always, yoghurt to finish. With rice if you like it that way, or plain, or a thin buttermilky verion to drink, but it's essential and said to help digestion. I point this out because I don't think there is any recorded evidence of a truly vegan food culture at any time in food history. Which is not to say that is a bad thing -- just that the argument that it's more "natural"/historica lly common for people to be vegan is, as far as I know, bunk. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. OrangeZonker Comment No. 1174374 June 20 16:25 Dhamma but above all we do think of the animals; roasted , fried baked, yummy, its what god made them for.. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. PowerValve Comment No. 1174401 June 20 16:32 Has nobody mentioned seitan? Much tastier than tofu, especially if you make it yourself - have a gander at http://vegetarian. about.com/ od/cookingtipsto ols/ss/HowToSeit an.htm Most vegetables are delicious if cooked properly, not the british boiled to death versions. It's probably why asparagus is so highly rated, being so expensive that people go to the effort to prepare it correctly, although sprouts, broccoli or cauliflower boiled for 5 minutes are just as tasty. For something simple, try chick peas with fried onions, fresh coriander chinese cabbage and ginger, serve with boiled spuds and smother the lot with olive oil. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. PowerValve Comment No. 1174419 June 20 16:35 re orange zonker, presumably God made you to post pathetic comments on blogs, not His greatest hour. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. badgerwoman Comment No. 1174425 June 20 16:37 Try being vegan if you have a wheat allergy! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. PowerValve Comment No. 1174450 June 20 16:41 re orange zonker, presumably God made you to post pathetic comments on blogs, not His greatest hour. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. LeftSaidThread Comment No. 1174480 June 20 16:48 I was vegetarian for about 20 years, from the age of six or seven. I managed to convince myself I wasn't missing out until I went back to meat and realised it is not replaceable and substitutes are rubbish. I feel more healthy, have more energy and have a greater selection of food to choose from. I still love my vegetables and don't eat much red meat as is too heavy. There is no such thing as cruelty free food. Think how many small mammals die whenever a wheat field is harvested. And people die every day as a indirect result of other's way of life. Plus, the animals you eat would never even have existed had people not chosen to eat them; providing they have a reasonably happy life (free-range) - it must surely be better than no life at all - but that's a philosophical point I guess. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. openKetchup Comment No. 1174503 June 20 16:55 What's the problem with meat-free substitutes? It's very simple: Some vegetarians/ vegans like the taste of meat but chose not to eat it for other reasons (morals, environment, health etc...). Why would such a person choose to deprive themselves of meat-free substitutes? I can understand if people think these substitutes are 'strange' or perhaps 'wrong', in their own way, but I can't understand people to fail to see the point of them. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. openKetchup Comment No. 1174522 June 20 16:59 What's the problem with meat-free substitutes? It's very simple: Some vegetarians/ vegans like the taste of meat but chose not to eat it for other reasons (morals, environment, health etc...). Why would such a person choose to deprive themselves of meat-free substitutes? I can understand if people think these substitutes are 'strange' or perhaps 'wrong', in their own way, but I can't understand people to fail to see the point of them. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. openKetchup Comment No. 1174524 June 20 16:59 What's the problem with meat-free substitutes? It's very simple: Some vegetarians/ vegans like the taste of meat but chose not to eat it for other reasons (morals, environment, health etc...). Why would such a person choose to deprive themselves of meat-free substitutes? I can understand if people think these substitutes are 'strange' or perhaps 'wrong', in their own way, but I can't understand people to fail to see the point of them. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. RERogers Comment No. 1174542 June 20 17:04 The nutty side of veganism is interesting. They would seem to be the obvious place to go for fat and protein but nut cheese does not sound overly appetizing. I'm surprised peanuts didn't figure more heavily, the satisfaction in peanut butter is one all children can attest to. During a year spent in Zambia I lived vegan by necessity rather than choice, as meat and dairy were virtually none existent in the bush. The loss of satisfying fatty food was far less after the "groundnut" season. Pretty much every stir-fry dish, even very simple cabbage and onions, becomes far more interesting and satisfying if you add a handful or two of peanut flour. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Leischa Comment No. 1174564 June 20 17:12 This is a good, and unsually open-minded, article. I've been vegetarian for more than 10 years, and vegan for about 5. It's the best decision I ever made, and has done wonders for my health. There are also plenty of good environmental and ethical reasons for a vegan diet. But I don't believe the point is for everyone to go vegan - it's not for everyone. Rather, omnivours should be encouraged to eat more vegan meals, and perhaps appreciate the meat they do eat more. It doesn't have to be either or. The problem is too many of us eat unconsciously - we're addicted to certain tastes, and we follow our cravings. Veganism forces you to reconsider what you put in your body, and I believe it is this, rather than the diet itself, that is empowering. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. toonbasedmanc Comment No. 1174589 June 20 17:22 There is a lot of food in the world that is wonderfully tasty and vegan - lots of meditteranean food for a start - it just isn't encumbered by the label. Pulses are good, as are nut roasts as suggested by earlier posters. I also used to love huge salads with sprouts and beans, soups and veg stews with herby dumplings etc (vegan suet). There are some 'fake' products that I would recommend like egg free mayonnaise, tofu and seaweed 'burgers' and swedish glace vegan ice cream but otherwise the best advice is to think about the non meat dairy things that you already eat and enjoy and to eat more of them! I was a vegan for 3 years and went back to being omnivorous predominantly because of the 'holier and better than thou' attitude of other vegans who equated dietary choices with child abuse and thought anyone not vegan was generally more unpleasant than Hitler and Stalin put together! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. AntonyVerus Comment No. 1174598 June 20 17:23 Veganism and other types Boutique Environmentalism are just a couple of ways human beings have invented to feel smug and superior and to put down other people. That's really what's at the core of it, not their love for the poor animals or poor Mother Earth. If Vegans and Vegetarians truly had solidarity with other human beings and animals then they'd just eat like people in most of the Third World, nay most human beings have done for thousands of years, meaning a mostly vegetable and grain based diet with rare and precious and infrequent animal protein used for flavoring. Occasionally for weddings and big holidays you roast a whole beast. Otherwise, you eat mostly vegetables with bits of eggs and dried little fish and scraps of offal when you can get them. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. seventh Comment No. 1174645 June 20 17:49 So my comment about devouring vegans was deleted, apparently. Cheer up you miserable bunch. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. spottiedog10 Comment No. 1174647 June 20 17:49 LeftSaidThread brings up a good point about veganism. The mere harvesting of plant materials often kills or displaces animals. Maybe not nice fluffy sheep and cows, but certainly invertebrates. The only lasting culture/religion that seems to have taken this into consideration, and thus could be used as an argumnet for veganism, seems to be the Jains, who theroretically won't eat anything that grows in the ground like potatoes as harvesting them could potentially harm something. Or would only eat fruit that is not too ripe in case insect larvae are killed, etc. Tricky dilemma for true vegans. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. rdpmackie Comment No. 1174651 June 20 17:53 I'm not Vegan AntonyVerus because of my love for all the dear animals of poor mother earth. To me it's an intellectual thing - an ethical thing. I simply think it's barbaric, neaderthal even to chop up other sentient beings into little pieces and eat them. Of course the environmental and health benefits of my choice are also nice. It's an unfortunate stereotype that vegans are all pasty, scrawny, hippies hugging kittens and trees. I'm 200lbs of terrifying strength, i ride a motorbike, i'm covered in tattoos, and could care less about bunny rabbits and kittens and doe-eyed cows. To me this is all about evolution, ethics, philosophy. I just can't picture an evolved humanity chopping up other sentient beings into little pieces and eating them. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. mijnheer Comment No. 1174657 June 20 17:56 toonbasedmanc writes: "I was a vegan for 3 years and went back to being omnivorous predominantly because of the 'holier and better than thou' attitude of other vegans who equated dietary choices with child abuse and thought anyone not vegan was generally more unpleasant than Hitler and Stalin put together!" The logic is impeccable. Personally, I went back to beating my wife because of the 'holier and better than thou' attitude of all those feminists who said wife-beating was evil. I guess I showed them! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. AntonyVerus Comment No. 1174665 June 20 18:01 So rdpmackie you've verified my point that Veganism is more about feeling smug and superior to other human beings - is that ethical? to feel that you're better just because you live in a 1st World culture that affords you the possibility to eat vegan and remain healthy? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. OrangeZonker Comment No. 1174694 June 20 18:14 PowerValveno, he created you for that role. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. paulatempest Comment No. 1174743 June 20 18:41 Hi Jay Have you come across Madhur Jaffrey's book World Vegetarian. Lots of inspiring and doable vegan recipes in there that don't rely totally on Thailand for their origins. My comment to you: must try harder. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Reditor Comment No. 1174762 June 20 18:53 Kudos to orange zonker ... it's the holier-than- thou types like dhamma who give vegans a bad name. So what's not to love about veganism? Well, besides the fact it ain't natural, as already pointed out, from an ecological standpoint, it takes crazy amounts of petrol to schlep exotic ingredients around the world; in part to avoid this expensive shipping, soy beans are planted on factory farms displacing heritage crops grown locally thus reducing biodiversity; to make soy grow in climates where it's not a "natural" crop, it's often subject to vast amounts of irrigation, pesticides, fertilizer, etc., etc. So the whole "good for the planet" thing needs a careful analysis ... a lot of that argument is pure bunkum. Then there's the serious scientific discussion about what happens to the human body when you overload the system w/ soy (the absolute rock-bottom staple of most vegan diets). Especially alarming are people more worried about dairy cattle than their own offspring. In the words of one researcher, "Infants fed soy-based formulas are part of a large, uncontrolled, and basically unmonitored human infant experiment, with uncertain risks and benefits."http://findarticles .com/p/articles/ mi_m0NAH/ is_2_29/ai_ 53929987/ pg_1?tag= artBody;col1 And as a lot of people do find soy to be essentially a bland, flavorless mush, they salt and fat the bejeezus out of it to make it into fake meat. Ever check the nutrition content on some of that stuff??? So the "it's healthier for you" argument also contains an amount of bull___t that renders it nonvegan if you swallow it whole. It's a choice. Fine, great, live and let live. But when the likes of dhamma try to ram their supposed moral superiority down my throat, it does make me (and apparently orange zonker, and a lot of others) want to run out and grab a cheeseburger. I promise not to invite you over for a barbecued steak (bloody rare, if you must know) if you promise to quit prostelytizing for your food cult. Me, I grew up around farmers. I know what goes into my food. I eat as much local/organic as I can. I'll put a locally grown, low-carbon-footprin t chicken up against a vegan curry any day as far as the moral high ground. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Arras Comment No. 1174766 June 20 18:56 Jay,I had read your review of the vegan restaurant and laughed as I had a friend (vegetarian) who used cold pressed safflower oil for her cooking, so everything tasted of it...and it had an accumulative factor so just smelling it would make me instantly not hungry....On the other hand, I had friends (I moved from the area, hence past tense) who used the book Laura's Kitchen as their cooking bible and they turned out some great dishes. The Moosewood (collective/ restaurant) put out some great books (not all vegan, but a good start), and I still use my copies as healthier choices for recipes. Did you check out any vegan cookbooks before starting your animal source fast? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. tromso Comment No. 1174818 June 20 19:20 What's the deal with the sudden flurry of (patronising, at best) articles on veganism in The Guardian this month? The overall tone of the articles is one of boorish anti-PC baiting glee, pre-emptive attacks supposedly justified by 'smug' or 'whiny' vegans. Sadly, your targets are either too polite, or insufficiently bothered about the approval of the braying 'gastro' classes, to provide the furore your columnists crave. All this 'carni-bore' desperation for conflict and offence just makes you look, well, desperate. Taking potshots at people who are trying to do their bit to live an ethical life, without harming anyone, and in the vast maojrity of cases, without preaching, comes across to the casual reader as exactly what it is - the work of ignorant bullies. A final thought: I somehow doubt that you would dare to mock a diet shaped by religous observance. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. digit Comment No. 1174823 June 20 19:22 I have no food rules, but, increasingly, I find veg is my preferred option. It makes me feel good in a way that goes beyond taste. I wolf down platefuls of it like a person who's been malnourished up to now. Perhaps I have. At some point, I went through a weird sort of revelatory process where I realised that the thing I liked best, which I was having on the side, could just be the main bit of the meal. The less mucked about with it is, the better I like it, ie. I don't tend to stew things much. Salad veg raw and the rest lightly steamed or, for the ratatouille veg, peppers, aubergines and courgettes, roasting works well. From there, you can mix with lentils or other beans and pulses, sprinkle with seeds etc. and season to your taste. The idea that it all has to be 'ethnic' seems a little unimaginative. Season it with thyme, basil or rosemary, to name but three, and it's tasty, but not ethnic. Simple really. Olive oil, sunflower oil and others take care of Blumenthal's fat concern, and in a way that won't raise your cholesterol. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. kyoto Comment No. 1174839 June 20 19:29 I think there are health benefits to a vegan diet. You will almost inevitably reduce your cholesterol levels, if that is a concern. For the average person who tries to follow a vegan diet, you may end up eating more salads and more vegetables in general. For a high end, high maintenance foodie (hello Jay), it is unlikely you will want to limit your options, which is fair enough, but there still might be no harm in balancing out all those steaks and factory chickens with the occaisonal lighter meal based on pulses and so on. There are other recipes you could use, of course, but it's best to look at some vegan cook books. My favourite is Isa Chandra Moskowitz. Jay is spot on about Japanese food. I lived in Japan for six years and loved the food there. I did eat fish admittedly, but also had some gorgeous vegan and vegetarian meals. Eating Japanese in England is a little expensive for most of us, but once you get hold of the aesthetic of Japanese style food, there is something about the cleanliness and lack of dairy which is addictive in its own way. Thai food is great, but coconut is very fattening if you decided to live off it. For other world foods, you could look at some of the World Cafe books from Covent Garden. For myself, I am veggie rather than vegan, but I have come across a lot of veggies who are sick of things like goat's cheese every time they eat out. Really well cooked vegan food could light up any mainstream menu and provide something lighter and cleaner than many of the exceedingly rich kind of dishes we usually find. Anyway, I think it's good you gave it a go. In my small town, I have been really surprised by the number of vegans I have across of all ages and outlooks. Only a very small number fit the cranky stereotype. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. horseless Comment No. 1174843 June 20 19:31 I've been a vegan for almost 20 years. I am not a chef but I am told that I make varied and tasty food which provides a balanced diet. How hard can it be? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. biba100mejico Comment No. 1174849 June 20 19:37 So at least you went into this with an open mind eh? This is obviously one of those Guardian ethics free zones.Like motorcycling across Latin American salt flats. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. SusanSmillie Comment No. 1174855 June 20 19:38 tromso - can I just direct you to the post below, Why are vegans so vilified, that we ran on Word of Mouth a couple of weeks ago, and that Jay linked to above? http://blogs. guardian. co.uk/food/ 2008/06/is_ veganism_ child_abuse. htmlOr, indeed, this other post below, The end of easy meat?, which we ran a week or so earlier on this blog, which generated lots of thoughtful conversation on both sides. http://blogs. guardian. co.uk/food/ 2008/05/vegetari anism.htmlAs editor of Word of Mouth, I believe we've been pretty even handed here. And, if you're interested, there will be some more coming up, from both sides of the debate on Sunday. Then I think we'll just leave it alone for a while! Thanks for your comment though. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. slimv Comment No. 1174859 June 20 19:41 wow! jay rayner's diet just sounds scarey. he eats, even as a vegan, so much heavy, sloppy, weighty food....it can't be good for his body or life energy or youthfulness. ... sure he's food writer so i suppose they adore cheese, oil, processed foods, heavy meats, thick sauces, potent proteins... but it all sounds too weighty unless you're an athlete this diet, and maybe i'm just freaking and reading between the lines...just sounds 'gross'. does a food writer have a responsibility to be a health writeris it ironic that a food writer is writing about the food and a diet that is possibly injurious for the body... who knows. eat on. there's too many on the planet as it is. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. slimv Comment No. 1174861 June 20 19:41 wow! jay rayner's diet just sounds scarey. he eats, even as a vegan, so much heavy, sloppy, weighty food....it can't be good for his body or life energy or youthfulness. ... sure he's food writer so i suppose they adore cheese, oil, processed foods, heavy meats, thick sauces, potent proteins... but it all sounds too weighty unless you're an athlete this diet, and maybe i'm just freaking and reading between the lines...just sounds 'gross'. does a food writer have a responsibility to be a health writeris it ironic that a food writer is writing about the food and a diet that is possibly injurious for the body... who knows. eat on. there's too many on the planet as it is. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Ieuan Comment No. 1174883 June 20 19:58 PowerValve said: "Has nobody mentioned seitan?" I'd completely forgotten about seitan. Many thanks, Powervalve for reminding me. I'm off to buy some high-gluten whole-wheat flour tomorrow. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. toodamnnice Comment No. 1174900 June 20 20:14 Hmmm. If ever an article was written before the event.... Then again, as a veggie of many years, I'd probably do the same if asked to write down my experiences of eating nothing but meat for a week. Maybe that would cure you of your cadaver eating obsession Jay - you must eat only meat for a week, no kind of vegetable matter allowed. See how you get on. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. biba100mejico Comment No. 1174901 June 20 20:15 So at least you went into this with an open mind eh? This is obviously one of those Guardian ethics free zones. Like motorcycling across Latin American salt flats. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. farofa Comment No. 1174905 June 20 20:15 Rice and beans (carioca i.e. brown - with fried onion and garlic added for the last 20 minutes or so of cooking - and with enough thick sauce to soak into some of the rice) with a special farofa (toasted manioc meal, in this case with fried onion, bits of olive and banana) sprinkled on top to make it slightly crunchy and even more tasty. On side, kale wilted in fried garlic and finely chopped onions (fry the garlic before the onion - odd eh?), with chips or fried manioc. Pasta or gnocchi with various types of good tomato sauce or with garlic and oil would be a good choice, I reckon, and bean stocks or mashed potato bases are lovely tasty and creamy for some soups. Fried would be the closest thing to my meat substitute: fried aubergine, potatoes, veggie kibe etc. Bread, olives, olive oil tomato and salt would have to serve in the place of cheese, as a nice accompaniment to wine. Can't help but think, though, that if vegans don't like the taste of meat, they should just eat chicken instead! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. badcat Comment No. 1174918 June 20 20:20 World's best vegan meal: Hobnobs and Laphroaig. World's second best (and incredibly filling and healthy, if fattening) vegan meal: Bean burrito with guacamole on the side. Here in Colorado we've got lots of Mexican restaurants, and can get good canned vegetarian refrieds in the grocery store; I think you've got them there, too. Serve with near-freezing beer (check to ensure filtering agents are OK) and lime. You can grow avocado trees indoors, if need be. Jay, you've got it easy. Because of family diabetes, I've recently been harried by my evil doctor into giving up all forms of _sugar_ (not just the non-vegetarian sugar with bone ash filtration). You lucky bugger, you can still have things like biscotti, luscious bittersweet chocolate-dipped marzipan chunks, chestnut truffles with brandy, macadamia brittle with high quality vanilla, deep chocolate sorbet with mint leaves, sharp lemon cake, baklava with rose water, ohhhh god, I'm dying. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. lighter Comment No. 1174931 June 20 20:30 I find it strange that vegans have not discovered what Greek cooking can do with pulses, olive oil, and herbs. It's vegan soul food, and unlike most other vegan food, it works well with wine. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. AntonyVerus Comment No. 1174933 June 20 20:31 Quinoa Soy Rhubarb Cake Turn oven on to 400° Drive to Whole Foods with a wad of cash in your Lexus, buy: 12 oz quinoa2 oz cashew butter4 oz of soy yogurt (plain)1/2c of agave nectar1/2 tsp of gray sea salt1/2 tsp of baking powder10 of rhubarb stalks.24oz of Evian water Set one rhubarb stalk aside. Boil quinoa and 9 chopped up rhubarb stalks in Evian water until cooked and soft. Take pan off heat and mix in remaining ingredients. Pour mixture into 9x9 cake pan and place it into oven. Bake for 2 hours. Call up Fiona Apple or Donald Watson and tell them about what a healthy cake you're making. Tally up all the carbon emissions it took to transport all these gourmet ingredients to your local Whole Foods and back home with you. Take the cake out of the oven and throw it away. Take the remaining stalk of rhubarb and pleasure yourself as best you can. (serves 1 pious Vegan, 0 calories) Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. willowlion Comment No. 1174937 June 20 20:33 yeah, well, as to the fake meat thing: I personally (vegan for 12 years) don't go for them much... but why shouldn't you/anyone? If they give you the taste/texture you are missing and fit in with your ethical choices why not? But I have to say... quorn (years of veggie-ism talking here) - yeugh... please find redwoods Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. ArchaeoArcanum Comment No. 1174938 June 20 20:33 As a confirmed carnivore married to a dedicated vegan, I feel your pain! One trick I learned long ago was spice, spice and more spice! Tofu (a substance that would be infinitely better suited to some sort of electrical insulation application rather than a foodstuff) is about as exciting as watching the Darts on telly. Even the Chinese long ago realised that "hey, this stuff tastes like crap" by itself. Its one redeeming quality is that it absorbs the flavour of pretty much anything it comes into contact with. Therefore, season often and season heavily. If you must cook with tofu, liberal use of soy sauce, black bean sauce or peppers can make the awful stuff almost palatable. Another tip is the frequent use of mushrooms... mushrooms of every shape and description. I've had great success with exotic mushrooms combined with wild rice. Even so, I still have moments when I can scarcely wait until I can sneak in the next evil chicken curry! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. stevlknevl Comment No. 1174942 June 20 20:35 ReditorIt's a choice. Fine, great, live and let live. But when the likes of dhamma try to ram their supposed moral superiority down my throat, it does make me (and apparently orange zonker, and a lot of others) want to run out and grab a cheeseburger. If you are going to participate in a dialogue about a vegan or vegetarian diet you really shouldn't get upset when someone who thinks differently from you makes their point of view known. Meat eaters are always accusing vegans of acting superior to them.AntonyVerusVeganism and other types Boutique Environmentalism are just a couple of ways human beings have invented to feel smug and superior and to put down other people. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Tigersnake Comment No. 1174945 June 20 20:35 Is anyone, apart from his bank manager and his mother,perhaps, really interested in Jay Rayner living as a vegan for a week, or even anything else in his life? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. kyoto Comment No. 1174955 June 20 20:48 archaeo "If you must cook with tofu, liberal use of soy sauce, black bean sauce or peppers can make the awful stuff almost palatable." The first thing is to get decent tofu. It is available in England and is manufactured in Malton, North Yorks. (I haven't said the brand name). Next thing it's important to press it out properly. Thirdly, to marinade overnight (or a few hours). I like shoyu or tamari, mirin and a little water with some sliced red chilli, sliced ginger and garlic. Fourthly, griddle. Result is very tasty. I usually serve with shi'itake gravy. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Ameliam Comment No. 1174985 June 20 21:08 There is a world of unintentionally vegan recipes: pasta and bean soup, chana masala, caponata, gazpacho, falafel, refried beans (minus the pig fat), grilled polenta, pan Catalan, stuffed vine leaves,borscht - the list is endless. Vegan food for me isn't about substitution, it's about old school peasant food mixed with hippy favourites. Brown rice rocks! Can't quite kick the oyster habit though. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. DamienLove Comment No. 1174994 June 20 21:16 As A vegetarian, I do not eat meet, as I feel it is unethical to kill animals for food. Therefore I have no problem eating tofu, as it is not dead animal. And that is why (most) vegetarian's/ vegan's eat tofu. It may taste like meat, but we don't not eat meat because of the taste, but because of the process behind it. Obviously this doesn't apply to all. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Reditor Comment No. 1175000 June 20 21:18 Stevl: You're right, I shouldn't have made dhamma write the original post telling Jay he wouldn't eat meat or dairy if he thought of the animals ... hell yes we meat eaters accuse some vegans of acting superior. How else are we to read a post where the basic assumption is that the only reason we eat meat is that we are unthinking oafs who haven't pondered the food chain? Who's looking down at whom? Have you or dhamma ever even been face to face with a cow? Scratched its belly? Milked it? Fed it? Seen it give birth? Fed its calf when the cow was dry? Felt its big, rough tongue on your hand as it ate a fistful of fresh grass? Held the rope when it was slaughtered (humanely)? Helped butcher it, preserving every precious morsel of its flesh you possibly could because you truly understood its sacrifice for your table? Modern cattle are great, dense, beautiful, hopeless eating and defecating factories, only outdone in the dim department by sheep and chickens. Ten thousand generations ago, they may have been majestic wild animals (suitable then as now for eating, procreation and being eaten by carnivores), but dairy cattle can no more live without care by humans than a hairless Chihuahua can survive in Alaska on its own. And almost every dairy cow I've ever seen in the flesh (numbering in the tens or possibly hundreds of thousands) is pretty damned contented with its life: A clean, warm barn, lots of food, open fields in good weather, prompt health care, protected from the elements and predators. No, I don't like the way factory farms raise many animals for meat -- without sufficient room to wander around, pumped full of growth hormones and the like -- but I don't eat much of that meat, either. I don't think it's healthy, I don't like what it does to the environment and it doesn't have much flavor. And I don't tell vegans (or vegetarians or fishatarians or people with religious strictures against certain foods) how to live. But when dhamma and his/her ilk tell me in essence I'm dense or else I would be a vegan too, yes, I tell them off. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. sugargirl Comment No. 1175032 June 20 21:59 I've been vegetarian for 20 years, and I can't see the point of meat substitutes either, and completely agree that the best meat-free meals are the ones that 'just happen' to be meat-free (I really don't like vegetarian restaurants for just that reason). I'm surprised that he didn't eat anything Italian - pasta with arrabiata or marinara sauce for example. Also, mushrooms on toast - lots of olive oil, chill and garlic, mmmmm -, jersey royals roasted in garlic and rosemary olive oil until crispy and golden...My mouth is watering, need to go and eat Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. astralandrew Comment No. 1175036 June 20 22:02 I hate to put a dampner on eating out as a vegan at a curry house - but i think most of them are likely to be cooking with Ghee? (clarified butter?????? ) ;-( Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Chandelia Comment No. 1175040 June 20 22:05 Cool discussion, my 11 year old just decided about a month ago to be vegan out of solidarity with all the male baby chicks that get wiped out cos they're no good for egg production; seriously one day he was shopping for fish, and cleaning it himself, the next he wouldn't even eat ice cream. Spontaneously. So now I have a cupboard full of soya milk and a freezer full of swedish glace. Thought I might get some good food ideas from this blog. If he's still vegan by the time his birthday comes round next month we'll probably try that place Saf. Wonder what he'll make of it. Thought I might make him that quinoa rhubarb cake suggested earlier by AntonyVerus but damn my local whole food rip off emporium is all out of agave nectar. who knows though - by July he may have returned to the true faith ie vegetarianism and we'll be back to the local pizza place. Jay yeah love the kitchen units but why is there a loo seat on top of the cooker? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. astralandrew Comment No. 1175043 June 20 22:06 "Remember what i told you" - lol Alex RIP x Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Chandelia Comment No. 1175044 June 20 22:07 Astralandrew you really know how to spoil a girl's night! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. LadyInRed Comment No. 1175047 June 20 22:10 Seriously, Jay Rayner, do you really feel that you really tried to eat vegan? I won't list the vegetables you do not mention (we all know what a vegetable is), nor the variety of rice dishes, or the possibilities of couscous or hummus or avocados or maize or, well, you get my point. There are heaps & barrows of all the food you didn't try. But staying to them, and them alone, would be easier if you avoided prepared foods (and in that, I include readymade pastas or sauces or stir-frys) and did all your cooking yourself - choosing vegetables, oils, spices you knew the contents of, not having to read ingredient lists... I am not a vegan and will not claim to have tried being one. I do however eat mostly vegetarian (including dairy and, once in a while, eggs) simply because I like it. The rich variety of taste you get by mixing vegetables, oil and spice is far superior to the variety of taste you get by mixing meat and butter... And I don't think avoiding dairy for a week (we're talking seven breakfasts, seven lunches and seven dinners, here!) would have had to be that difficult at all. But "eating all vegan is far easier than anyone would think" would maybe have been a more boring angle for you than "eating vegan is hell"?Remember, vegans EAT nuts, vegans AREN'T nuts... Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. astralandrew Comment No. 1175050 June 20 22:12 @ Chandelia "the true faith - Vegetarianism" You ARE joking? Your son sounds like a well-balanced child making positive, informed choices for himself!Vegetarianism is just watered down veganism.... .. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. bagshaw78 Comment No. 1175051 June 20 22:12 I am a meat eater but work as a vegan head chef and it is ceratianly a challenge. You cannot achieve the same depth of flavour, but i enjoy the job as it has made me go into greater detail with my knowledge of spices. Ethnic cookery is indeed the way to go. My hot tips? Reduced stocks with water used to soak pulses can be good - black or fava beans in particular have a good flavour. Use a bit of seaweed in soups. Fresh coconut cream can be good for enriching flavour and texture by adding some saturated fat. You can get away with using it in alot of different ways apart just asian cooking. Using really good quality seasonings is vital - don't just use standard brands of soy sauce, spend the extra and buy organic tamari, Clearspring is a good company if you can afford their stuff. For sweet flavours melted palm sugar (cheap as chips) can be as good as honey or better, or try using agave syrup. Mirin makes practically anything taste better. Booze based sauces are naturally rich as in meat cookery. Sadly there are almost no good vegan cookbooks ive found. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Chandelia Comment No. 1175068 June 20 22:32 @ astralandrew, yes i suppose i was being slightly tongue in cheek by that point. But i have thought of something Jay should have eaten; ratatouille. Delicious, nutritious,you can easily add protein if you want eg by sprinkling with toasted pine nuts and it is (almost) seasonal. With some hot fresh bread or plain boiled potatoes. And it's the name of quite a good cartoon film. What more could you want?! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Reditor Comment No. 1175077 June 20 22:43 @Chandelia:If you're looking for a good vegan food tip ... vegan stocks tend to be difficult to get depth of flavour, as many of the vegetable boullion mixes are milk-based. Instead, try grinding half a packet of high-grade herbal tea (a nice citrus blend works best) in your palm, then adding it as you saute your first batch of veggies, before adding any water.As long as it's reasonably well powdered, the bits become just another spice fleck in the finished soup or sauce, and no one will ever identify that "extra" kick of taste as Lemon Lift or what have you. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. laurabarton Comment No. 1175078 June 20 22:43 hallo Mr Rayner, I'm vegetarian not vegan, but a couple of years ago I discovered a recipe book from the Fresh restaurants in Toronto (http://www. juiceforlife. com/cookbook. html#) and found it so amazingly delicious that I ate vegan for two whole months without noticing. and to be honest, I've never felt better in my life. oh, and i'm with you on the fakin bacon front.ps may I raise an objection to the fruit plate as a vegetarian/vegan pudding? we get VERY bored of it. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Daisybell Comment No. 1175103 June 20 23:03 What about some less exotic stuff that is still Vegan? Baked beans come to mind - and I see from the label they are gluten free too. I think if I had to be vegan for a week I'd live on beans on toast! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. EquivalencyDalek Comment No. 1175128 June 20 23:21 Vegetarianism is relatively appealing but veganism is wilful alienation from the reality of one's own existence and mortality. What do baby vegans drink? And why do they drink it? Someone mentioned brown rice. Brown rice, like wholemeal pasta, is revolting, and nothing to do with vegetarianism, veganism or even eating well. It is a self-hate on a plate. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Aindriug Comment No. 1175144 June 20 23:27 Ultimately, why bother? Veganism is an idiotic idea, largely espoused by crypto-puritans and neo-ascetics, the culinary equivalent of a horsehair shirt. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Merseymike Comment No. 1175169 June 20 23:39 I see no reason why I should encourage eating disorders. The Portuguese grill sounds just great! As for vegan food - excuse me whilst I vomit.... Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. TeacherMan Comment No. 1175175 June 20 23:43 Meat free substitutes are garbage. Jay, what you like about meat is its flavor and its texture. Try this next time - get some dried oyster mushrooms, they have a lovely texture that's similar to chicken. The flavor elements in meat are the fat and the blood. Substitute olive oil or some kind of nut oil for the fat and use wine to simulate the blood, and use the same seasonings that you would on meat - garlic, ginger, onion or what have you. This will give you that "meaty flavor. Part of the reason you feel unsatisfied is because you're not getting the nutrition you need. Make sure you've got nuts, legumes or leafy greens going on. I know you'll think I'm a nut case, but I used to be like you. I loved steak and burgers and thought it was a crime against nature if they weren't served so rare they were bleeding. Giving up the cheese was much harder than giving up the meat. Now, I'm mostly a raw vegan. You see when you cook food, you destroy over half of the nutrients. Enzymes in food don't survive the cooking process. Once you feel what its like to not have the crap in your body that meat and dairy deposits, you'll never look back. Five days isn't nearly enough to experience any of the benefits of veganism. You carry chunks of meat in your intestine for YEARS! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. TeacherMan Comment No. 1175178 June 20 23:43 Meat free substitutes are garbage. Jay, what you like about meat is its flavor and its texture. Try this next time - get some dried oyster mushrooms, they have a lovely texture that's similar to chicken. The flavor elements in meat are the fat and the blood. Substitute olive oil or some kind of nut oil for the fat and use wine to simulate the blood, and use the same seasonings that you would on meat - garlic, ginger, onion or what have you. This will give you that "meaty flavor. Part of the reason you feel unsatisfied is because you're not getting the nutrition you need. Make sure you've got nuts, legumes or leafy greens going on. I know you'll think I'm a nut case, but I used to be like you. I loved steak and burgers and thought it was a crime against nature if they weren't served so rare they were bleeding. Giving up the cheese was much harder than giving up the meat. Now, I'm mostly a raw vegan. You see when you cook food, you destroy over half of the nutrients. Enzymes in food don't survive the cooking process. Once you feel what its like to not have the crap in your body that meat and dairy deposits, you'll never look back. Five days isn't nearly enough to experience any of the benefits of veganism. You carry chunks of meat in your intestine for YEARS! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. gondwanaland Comment No. 1175179 June 20 23:44 Jay, How come you look a dead ringer for Richard Reid the "shoe bomber"? This post has already been deleted, but a face is a face. No disrespect mate. Get yourself another mug shot. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. digit Comment No. 1175234 June 21 0:11 I bloody love brown rice, EquivalencyDalek. Nothing wrong with wholewheat pasta either. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Baronvonberghausen Comment No. 1175263 June 21 0:28 Right then, I'm a Vegan as is my wife. To answer the point made previously as to why people "bother" with fake meats is a pretty simple one. I like the taste of meat, I love it in fact. I'm sure 1000's of other vegetarians do too. If you could manufacture a product that smelt, tasted and had the texture of a good steak, or grilled salmon or baby back ribs, BUT wasn't, I would be all over it like stink on poo. I am against the mass exploitation of animals. Thats it. So what is wrong with fake products? My favourite being fake fish fingers or " Nish Fingers" as I call them. 85% of fresh water on this planet is used up by farming/livestock industries worldwide. If we only ate a fraction less meat, I'm sure the costs of basic foods wouldnt be anywhere near as high as is being predicted. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. OliviaC Comment No. 1175310 June 21 1:01 Summer pudding - real, delicious food which just happens not to have any dairy in it. I make this for my carnivorous friends every summer, when all the berries are most luscious and juicy, so it isn't a vegan-desperation- dish. All us non-vegans add lashings of cream, of course, but I imagine thinned coconut cream or soya cream would do. My Mum makes a big dish of roasted vegetables with a shitaake mushroom & polenta cake that's really fantastic. It happens to be vegan, although we tend to eat them with roast lamb. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Kepler Comment No. 1175326 June 21 1:10 A week of vegan cookery in the summer and not one mention of salad! Riffle through all those cookbooks, Jay. And don't knock the veggie burger, especially the Cauldron spinach and sweetcorn variety, it will make you feel way more energetic than what Jamie calls 'donkey bollock burger'. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Kepler Comment No. 1175328 June 21 1:11 A week of vegan cookery in the summer and not one mention of salad! Riffle through all those cookbooks, Jay. And don't knock the veggie burger, especially the Cauldron spinach and sweetcorn variety, it will make you feel way more energetic than what Jamie calls 'donkey bollock burger'. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. astralandrew Comment No. 1175688 June 21 9:20 As an advocate of vegan/vegetarianism on lots of levels (not for this thread) - i am appalled by this self-obssession i see here with peoples tastes in food!Why does everything have to be so 'satisfying' or 'deliciuos'! !It all sounds very much like 'addict' behaviour to me - always searching for that next food high/experience/ satisfaction - we seem to have forgotten that whatever we eat is a blessing and that a VERY large majority of the worlds population lives on either plain rice or maize based staples day in and day out!Its all very well for us to blog on the guradian slagging each others diets off, but, lets get some perspective here.We're not all followers of epicurus... Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. ciwstudent Comment No. 1175753 June 21 9:56 I am not a vegetarian and certainly not a vegan, in fact a week asa vegan would be horrible for me because all days that start without a nice cup of tea is destined to be a s__t day, and even UHT milk doesn't tast right in tea in my opinion.I also really like meat, so I have to respect people who give it up completly because of a lifestyle choice, if only for the reason that like running a four-minute- mile, it is something I couldn't do myself.I do have certain reservations about the point of view that verybdy should become vegan (as posted in an aricle on CIF not so long ago). For example, if nobody were to eat animals, leather production would be directly comperable ethically and environmentally as fur production is today, in that the animal 's only reason for existence as it were is to be killed for it's fur. Some people may have a different opinion but I beleive that for example a sheepskin coat is ethically "better" than a mink (or whatever) one because somebody would have eaten the animal, perhaps after it had been shorn a few times for wool production as opposed to bein killed, skinned, and incinerated.And as to the fake leather alternative, perhaps if I am wrong somebody can correct e if I am wrong, but as far as I know it is essentially made out of PVC (polyvinyl chloride). The base for tins substance is, of course, fosil fuels, the usage of which we ought to inhibit. I have no idea what the difference in carbon footprint is, but it would be interesting! One thing that i like to eat which happens to be vegan is gazpacho (spanish cold soup). It may sund dd, but it really is very nice! Oh dear, that was a long post. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. ciwstudent Comment No. 1175754 June 21 9:56 I am not a vegetarian and certainly not a vegan, in fact a week as a vegan would be horrible for me because all days that start without a nice cup of tea is destined to be a s__t day, and even UHT milk doesn't tast right in tea in my opinion.I also really like meat, so I have to respect people who give it up completly because of a lifestyle choice, if only for the reason that like running a four-minute- mile, it is something I couldn't do myself.I do have certain reservations about the point of view that verybdy should become vegan (as posted in an aricle on CIF not so long ago). For example, if nobody were to eat animals, leather production would be directly comperable ethically and environmentally as fur production is today, in that the animal 's only reason for existence as it were is to be killed for it's fur. Some people may have a different opinion but I beleive that for example a sheepskin coat is ethically "better" than a mink (or whatever) one because somebody would have eaten the animal, perhaps after it had been shorn a few times for wool production as opposed to bein killed, skinned, and incinerated.And as to the fake leather alternative, perhaps if I am wrong somebody can correct e if I am wrong, but as far as I know it is essentially made out of PVC (polyvinyl chloride). The base for tins substance is, of course, fosil fuels, the usage of which we ought to inhibit. I have no idea what the difference in carbon footprint is, but it would be interesting! One thing that i like to eat which happens to be vegan is gazpacho (spanish cold soup). It may sund dd, but it really is very nice! Oh dear, that was a long post. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Clevo Comment No. 1175817 June 21 10:40 Your description of your few days does not justify the title "My vegan hell". One or two difficulties with bad labelling seems to be all. You didn't actually feel bad or ill on it, I gather. Nor did you eat so much soya products that you went downhill. Like one of your correspondents, my wife and I went from vegetarian to vegan for two years, and suffered fron soya interference in body chemistry, not from lack of tasty food. You also keep on buying factory-made rubbish. Nearly all factory food is deader than expired animal bodies. No live enzymes. Five days is nothing. Like an M.P. spending a week in a council house on Benefits to learn how "they" live. Still, it did earn something from the paper. Wish I'd written it and got the cheque. Yours, O.A.P. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. richl Comment No. 1176034 June 21 12:37 "soya interference in body chemistry" What does this mean? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. SelahWrites Comment No. 1176128 June 21 13:32 Thanks for going vegan - if even for such a short amount of time. I am always grateful when we get media attention (even negative) because maybe, just maybe, someone out there reading your article may start thinking about the suffering wrought on animals by our hands. For me, as an ethical vegan, reduction of suffering is my goal and objective, and every person who adopts a vegan life adds to the reduction of suffering of all sentient beings, the animals along with those whose livlihoods require them to work in factory farming environments. Veganism also significantly reduces global warming, an added bonus. Many of the commenters are on point when they address that you went through the toughest part of going vegan in the first week (well, 5 days.) Being vegan is a learning process, and one of the first pitfalls are the hidden ingredients one would never expect to find in foods, like the nuts with the dairy you discovered. It is a common misconception that vegans are saintly and virtously pure in their veganism from the minute the decision is made. That is not the case for most. We all have experienced that dreadful realization of consuming something that had something in it that we were blissfully unaware was an animal product, like isinglass in some beers. For that reason, you'll see vegans pouring over ingredient lists and sharing newfound "accidentally" vegan foods information among the vegan community. The same holds true for all other foods. We exchange recipes, have wonderful collections of cookbooks, and help each other with techniques and menu plans. I agree with your analog meat issue. I don't personally like them, and I don't like to pay the premium prices on them. They are the vegan equivalent of Hamburger Helper and about as nutritious as a salt shaker. Again, my gratitude to you for getting the word out there that vegans exist, that we do eat, and that it is possible, even if you didn't have the most wonderful experience. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. vivisexy Comment No. 1176291 June 21 15:55 as is already refered to, veganism is not a mere diet... it is a lifestyle and encompasses many other things than just the food we eat. I have followed a vegan diet for 13 years now, for many reasons - eating organic, vegan and local and non-processed means minimising one's ecological impact and not supporting agri-business and harmful industries. veganism has been embraced by many diverse sub-cultures - think of straight-edgers, many buddhists, rock-a-billy, anarchists and health-fanatics. Being conscious of avoiding additives, highly processed products, produce of the largest irreverent transnational corporations that are maximising their control over the food chain from land-ownership/ management, oil-based fertilizers, supply and distribution as well as the promotors of the profit-driven GM developments. ... and so it goes on. I, for one, eat delicious food, all the more so for the fact that I know that I am not supporting practices which compromises human rights and the environment. Purely looking at the taste of food, with pre-programmed ideas of what is 'good', is a symptom of the ever-isolated hedonsitic self. the squatting scene in the netherlands, the world-spread food-not-bombs groups and many other socially active grassroots kitchens are vegan for all and many other reasons above. Chefs recognsise that vegans consistently cook in a superior fashion to vegetarians. for some of the amazing vegan cooks out there, check out: www.theppk.com, and the supremely class www.govegan. net exploring veganism leads one into radical and creative politics, wonderful health and a clear mind... the ultimate 'cool'ness.. . veganism is for me the only way to live ethically and morally in a world that is increasingly product and instant-satisfactio n directed... consider it! Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. RastaChef Comment No. 1176364 June 21 16:58 ""soya interference in body chemistry" What does this mean?" Soy contains phytoestrogens (plant hormones) which are thought to interfere with the function of the human body. I don't know much about it as I haven't read any scientific studies on soy consumption, but there have been claims that soy gives you man-boobs, gives you cancer, or turns you gay(!). As the claim that soy turns you gay was made by a homophobic christian nutjob, I think it's safe to ignore that one. If soy caused cancer or horbmone imbalances or anything like that, wouldn't it have been noticed amongst populations that eat a lot of tofu, i.e. some Chinese people? Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. laurabarton Comment No. 1176392 June 21 17:19 Rastachef, there's some interesting thoughts on the subject of soya and health here: http://www.guardian .co.uk/food/ Story/0,, 1828158,00. html Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Peter vv Sent from Mail. A Smarter Email. Sent from Mail. A Smarter Email. “We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out.†- Bill Moyers “We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out.†- Bill Moyers Sent from Mail. A Smarter Email. “We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out.†- Bill Moyers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 i guess i've been called to duty ok, here's the low down Most beer is vegan, BUT, there are a number of beers, especially beers from the UK, which are not tradtionally, UK beersd add isinglass, which is dried fish bladder. why? because it's a fining agent. it helps drop protien and such out of the solution, so you have a clearer product. nowadays it is mostly used in traditional english cask condition beers. now, in portugal, most beers should be fine....my beer knowledge there is very limited, as i've had a couple Sagres and several others (superbok?) anyways, most beer is vegan, you just in general (there are always exceptions) have to watch out for a number of UK beers, and Guiness cheeers fraggle Beatriz Jun 22, 2008 2:14 PM Re: My Vegan Hell - what about beer? Thanks --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote: Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com>Re: My Vegan Hell - what about beer? Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 5:07 PM Yes we do, and yes there are, The UK is probably on eof the worst for non vegan beer, I will let Fraggle fill you in on beer, he is the undisputed champ....... ....... Peter vv “We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out.†- Bill Moyers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.