Guest guest Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I am going to Center Parcs in Wiltshire for a week tomorrow, and am keen ( wife & kidspermitting ) to go to Avebury. Have you ever been? whats it like? Peter vv jo <jo.heartwork Sent: Sunday, 27 July, 2008 9:42:19 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?  Maybe the owning isn't to your liking, but what should we call them if not 'pets' - it is the term used for them that you started the discussion on ! Companion Animal Semetary, anyone? Jo - Peter VV @gro ups.com Sunday, July 27, 2008 7:09 PM Re: What do you think about pets as therapy? Point taken, so its an outdated concept. Maybe the same should be said of people "owning" pets. Peter vv Peter <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSunday, 27 July, 2008 6:54:24 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?  Hi Peter Possibly just a bit of history - in that women were considered for many centuries to be the property of men. When you were married, did your wife get "given away" by her father? Assuming she did (as most women still are), doesn't that sound very much like property? BB Peter - Peter VV @gro ups.com Sunday, July 27, 2008 6:50 PM Re: What do you think about pets as therapy? You have completely lost me now, what has a wife ( a woman to whom a man is married ) have to do with a pet ( which is an animal KEPT in the home) which infers property. Did I miss something? Its about time I fired another bullet, this one has done its job. Peter vv Peter <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSunday, 27 July, 2008 10:08:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?  Hi Fraggle Interesting point which leads to an interesting question... if you were married, would you call your partner your "wife"? After all, it's only recently that the term "wife" hasn't implied ownership, yet most of us still use it freely. BB Peter - fraggle @gro ups.com Saturday, July 26, 2008 11:14 PM Re: What do you think about pets as therapy? hmmm... no offense, but taking your statement "you pay for food, insurance" et al, wouldn't that also stand for any human children ya had, or your parents, or anyone you care about or... you get the picture... fer my point o view..i don't have to anthropomorphise. ..animals have their own "being"...they have awareness all their own...just cuz it may be different then lil ol humans doesn't make it any less valid.... to go back, sorry, the word pet conveys ownership and property...my kids are not slaves.....and, if wee go that root, heck, they own me much more then.... Gayalondiel Jul 26, 2008 2:24 PM @gro ups.com Re: What do you think about pets as therapy? Well, if you don't ascribe a level of consciousness to animals that you do to humans, and you pay for the animal (or you pick it up from the rescue centre, whatever), and you pay for it's food and it's insurance and it's vet's bills and so on and so forth, then to a degree it is property, because you choose it but it didn't choose you.My point here is that I do't ascribe that level of sentience to animals, that's not why I became vegan, I'm sick of people assuming that that's what I do believe and there seems to be a blanket view that if you don't eat animal products then you must believe thatanimals have human-level sentience. I'm asking at what point it becomes ok for me to say yeah, it's a pet. On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote: Youve lost me now, sorry?, I`m not the sharpest tool in the shed. Animals are not property. Peter vv Gayalondiel <gayalondiel@ livejournal. com>@gro ups.com Saturday, 26 July, 2008 9:42:11 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy? So hypothetically, you could comfortably use the term 'pet' if you were happy that animals didn't have an equivalent level of sentience with humans, and you did pay for an animal and keep it in your house and feed it out of your money, then there would be no logistical problem with calling it a 'pet', as it is in fact a creature that belongs to you?G On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote: Hey Tammy, Pay attention, you seem to have missed a few posts? Some people associate the term pet, with ownership, as in "my pet" - i own it, it belongs to me type of ting.... Peter vv "tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com" <tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Friday, 25 July, 2008 10:13:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy? In a message dated 7/20/2008 11:42:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dragonheart_ Kitty (AT) hotmail (DOT) com writes: > I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for depression treatment? Peter vv> > HUH??? A pet is a companion and most are very good ones. I see nothing wrong with calling a pet a pet. What's the big deal? Tammy Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at -- Ms Madeline J Andersont: 01242 861269m: 07881 623654e: maddy.anderson@ gmail.com Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at -- Ms Madeline J Andersont: 01242 861269m: 07881 623654e: maddy.anderson@ gmail.com With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably. Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Hi PeterBeen to Avebury loads of times... depends on what sort of things you like....It's basically a smallish village in the middle of a very large stone circle. There's unfortunately a road that goes through the middle of the stone circle, so you have to cross over a couple of times to see the whole site. In one part there's a sort of central circle with slightly smaller stones, the outer stones are pretty huge (similar sort of size to Stonehenge, but much less regular in shape). Around the whole site is a ditch & small hill, which you can walk around the top of, and a few nice little treed areas. There's also " the avenue " which is an avenue (surprisingly) of stones which leads away from (or towards, depending on where you start!) the circle. In the village, there's the inevitable tourist gift shop, filled with crystals, sheil-na-gigs, new-agey magazines, postcards, etc. and a pub which I wouldn't recommend eating in unless you enjoy getting your food served either half cooked, or not served at all! I have no idea what their drinks are like, as I've never been back in there after twice being disappointed by their food. There *is*, however, a wonderful little veggie cafe called " Stones " (I think... although it might be " The Circle " now), which normally has a few vegan options. Oh, and if you're lucky, there are sometimes some sheep inside the circle! :-)BBPeter2008/7/27 Peter VV <swpgh01 I am going to Center Parcs in Wiltshire for a week tomorrow, and am keen ( wife & kidspermitting ) to go to Avebury. Have you ever been? whats it like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Thanks Peter, It looks a lot more accessable than Stonehenge, and I like to touch the stones if possible in stone circles, dont know why, just do! Peter vv Peter Kebbell <metalscarab Sent: Sunday, 27 July, 2008 10:40:08 PMRe: help please Jo & Peter Hi PeterBeen to Avebury loads of times... depends on what sort of things you like....It's basically a smallish village in the middle of a very large stone circle. There's unfortunately a road that goes through the middle of the stone circle, so you have to cross over a couple of times to see the whole site. In one part there's a sort of central circle with slightly smaller stones, the outer stones are pretty huge (similar sort of size to Stonehenge, but much less regular in shape). Around the whole site is a ditch & small hill, which you can walk around the top of, and a few nice little treed areas. There's also "the avenue" which is an avenue (surprisingly) of stones which leads away from (or towards, depending on where you start!) the circle.In the village, there's the inevitable tourist gift shop, filled with crystals, sheil-na-gigs, new-agey magazines, postcards, etc. and a pub which I wouldn't recommend eating in unless you enjoy getting your food served either half cooked, or not served at all! I have no idea what their drinks are like, as I've never been back in there after twice being disappointed by their food. There *is*, however, a wonderful little veggie cafe called "Stones" (I think... although it might be "The Circle" now), which normally has a few vegan options.Oh, and if you're lucky, there are sometimes some sheep inside the circle! :-)BBPeter 2008/7/27 Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> I am going to Center Parcs in Wiltshire for a week tomorrow, and am keen ( wife & kidspermitting ) to go to Avebury. Have you ever been? whats it like? Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008  I go quite often. It is very interesting. A chalk pathway has just been finished around the outside of the complex. I really like the place, but they may be because I'm Pagan. There is a nice little shop, if you like Pagan/New Age type things. There is a museum in the barn, and a National Trust shop. There is a pub - but don't eat there, because there is a veggie cafe called the Circle which is veggie and has a couple of vegan dinners. We always eat there. If you are going by car, or like lots of walking, you can also go to Silbury Hill, and West Kennet Long Barrow. There are also some crop circles there, if you are interested. Where else are you thinking of going? Have a good time. Jo - Peter VV Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:50 PM Re: help please Jo & Peter I am going to Center Parcs in Wiltshire for a week tomorrow, and am keen ( wife & kidspermitting ) to go to Avebury. Have you ever been? whats it like? Peter vv jo <jo.heartwork > Sent: Sunday, 27 July, 2008 9:42:19 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?  Maybe the owning isn't to your liking, but what should we call them if not 'pets' - it is the term used for them that you started the discussion on ! Companion Animal Semetary, anyone? Jo - Peter VV @gro ups.com Sunday, July 27, 2008 7:09 PM Re: What do you think about pets as therapy? Point taken, so its an outdated concept. Maybe the same should be said of people "owning" pets. Peter vv Peter <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSunday, 27 July, 2008 6:54:24 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?  Hi Peter Possibly just a bit of history - in that women were considered for many centuries to be the property of men. When you were married, did your wife get "given away" by her father? Assuming she did (as most women still are), doesn't that sound very much like property? BB Peter - Peter VV @gro ups.com Sunday, July 27, 2008 6:50 PM Re: What do you think about pets as therapy? You have completely lost me now, what has a wife ( a woman to whom a man is married ) have to do with a pet ( which is an animal KEPT in the home) which infers property. Did I miss something? Its about time I fired another bullet, this one has done its job. Peter vv Peter <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSunday, 27 July, 2008 10:08:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?  Hi Fraggle Interesting point which leads to an interesting question... if you were married, would you call your partner your "wife"? After all, it's only recently that the term "wife" hasn't implied ownership, yet most of us still use it freely. BB Peter - fraggle @gro ups.com Saturday, July 26, 2008 11:14 PM Re: What do you think about pets as therapy? hmmm... no offense, but taking your statement "you pay for food, insurance" et al, wouldn't that also stand for any human children ya had, or your parents, or anyone you care about or... you get the picture... fer my point o view..i don't have to anthropomorphise. ..animals have their own "being"...they have awareness all their own...just cuz it may be different then lil ol humans doesn't make it any less valid.... to go back, sorry, the word pet conveys ownership and property...my kids are not slaves.....and, if wee go that root, heck, they own me much more then.... Gayalondiel Jul 26, 2008 2:24 PM @gro ups.com Re: What do you think about pets as therapy? Well, if you don't ascribe a level of consciousness to animals that you do to humans, and you pay for the animal (or you pick it up from the rescue centre, whatever), and you pay for it's food and it's insurance and it's vet's bills and so on and so forth, then to a degree it is property, because you choose it but it didn't choose you.My point here is that I do't ascribe that level of sentience to animals, that's not why I became vegan, I'm sick of people assuming that that's what I do believe and there seems to be a blanket view that if you don't eat animal products then you must believe thatanimals have human-level sentience. I'm asking at what point it becomes ok for me to say yeah, it's a pet. On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote: Youve lost me now, sorry?, I`m not the sharpest tool in the shed. Animals are not property. Peter vv Gayalondiel <gayalondiel@ livejournal. com>@gro ups.com Saturday, 26 July, 2008 9:42:11 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy? So hypothetically, you could comfortably use the term 'pet' if you were happy that animals didn't have an equivalent level of sentience with humans, and you did pay for an animal and keep it in your house and feed it out of your money, then there would be no logistical problem with calling it a 'pet', as it is in fact a creature that belongs to you?G On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote: Hey Tammy, Pay attention, you seem to have missed a few posts? Some people associate the term pet, with ownership, as in "my pet" - i own it, it belongs to me type of ting.... Peter vv "tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com" <tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Friday, 25 July, 2008 10:13:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy? In a message dated 7/20/2008 11:42:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dragonheart_ Kitty (AT) hotmail (DOT) com writes: > I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for depression treatment? Peter vv> > HUH??? A pet is a companion and most are very good ones. I see nothing wrong with calling a pet a pet. What's the big deal? Tammy Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at -- Ms Madeline J Andersont: 01242 861269m: 07881 623654e: maddy.anderson@ gmail.com Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at -- Ms Madeline J Andersont: 01242 861269m: 07881 623654e: maddy.anderson@ gmail.com With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably. Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Hi Peter/Peter LOL I answered before I read this one - said much the same, but not so much detail. BBJo - Peter Kebbell Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:40 PM Re: help please Jo & Peter Hi PeterBeen to Avebury loads of times... depends on what sort of things you like....It's basically a smallish village in the middle of a very large stone circle. There's unfortunately a road that goes through the middle of the stone circle, so you have to cross over a couple of times to see the whole site. In one part there's a sort of central circle with slightly smaller stones, the outer stones are pretty huge (similar sort of size to Stonehenge, but much less regular in shape). Around the whole site is a ditch & small hill, which you can walk around the top of, and a few nice little treed areas. There's also "the avenue" which is an avenue (surprisingly) of stones which leads away from (or towards, depending on where you start!) the circle.In the village, there's the inevitable tourist gift shop, filled with crystals, sheil-na-gigs, new-agey magazines, postcards, etc. and a pub which I wouldn't recommend eating in unless you enjoy getting your food served either half cooked, or not served at all! I have no idea what their drinks are like, as I've never been back in there after twice being disappointed by their food. There *is*, however, a wonderful little veggie cafe called "Stones" (I think... although it might be "The Circle" now), which normally has a few vegan options.Oh, and if you're lucky, there are sometimes some sheep inside the circle! :-)BBPeter 2008/7/27 Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> I am going to Center Parcs in Wiltshire for a week tomorrow, and am keen ( wife & kidspermitting ) to go to Avebury. Have you ever been? whats it like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008  Hi Peter Yep - you can get right up close - no barriers like at Stonehenge... And is that a hint of a spiritual streak in you ;-) BB Peter - Peter VV Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:47 PM Re: help please Jo & Peter Thanks Peter, It looks a lot more accessable than Stonehenge, and I like to touch the stones if possible in stone circles, dont know why, just do! Peter vv Peter Kebbell <metalscarab Sent: Sunday, 27 July, 2008 10:40:08 PMRe: help please Jo & Peter Hi PeterBeen to Avebury loads of times... depends on what sort of things you like....It's basically a smallish village in the middle of a very large stone circle. There's unfortunately a road that goes through the middle of the stone circle, so you have to cross over a couple of times to see the whole site. In one part there's a sort of central circle with slightly smaller stones, the outer stones are pretty huge (similar sort of size to Stonehenge, but much less regular in shape). Around the whole site is a ditch & small hill, which you can walk around the top of, and a few nice little treed areas. There's also "the avenue" which is an avenue (surprisingly) of stones which leads away from (or towards, depending on where you start!) the circle.In the village, there's the inevitable tourist gift shop, filled with crystals, sheil-na-gigs, new-agey magazines, postcards, etc. and a pub which I wouldn't recommend eating in unless you enjoy getting your food served either half cooked, or not served at all! I have no idea what their drinks are like, as I've never been back in there after twice being disappointed by their food. There *is*, however, a wonderful little veggie cafe called "Stones" (I think... although it might be "The Circle" now), which normally has a few vegan options.Oh, and if you're lucky, there are sometimes some sheep inside the circle! :-)BBPeter 2008/7/27 Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> I am going to Center Parcs in Wiltshire for a week tomorrow, and am keen ( wife & kidspermitting ) to go to Avebury. Have you ever been? whats it like? Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008  :-) Me too Jo - Peter VV Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:47 PM Re: help please Jo & Peter Thanks Peter, It looks a lot more accessable than Stonehenge, and I like to touch the stones if possible in stone circles, dont know why, just do! Peter vv Peter Kebbell <metalscarab > Sent: Sunday, 27 July, 2008 10:40:08 PMRe: help please Jo & Peter Hi PeterBeen to Avebury loads of times... depends on what sort of things you like....It's basically a smallish village in the middle of a very large stone circle. There's unfortunately a road that goes through the middle of the stone circle, so you have to cross over a couple of times to see the whole site. In one part there's a sort of central circle with slightly smaller stones, the outer stones are pretty huge (similar sort of size to Stonehenge, but much less regular in shape). Around the whole site is a ditch & small hill, which you can walk around the top of, and a few nice little treed areas. There's also "the avenue" which is an avenue (surprisingly) of stones which leads away from (or towards, depending on where you start!) the circle.In the village, there's the inevitable tourist gift shop, filled with crystals, sheil-na-gigs, new-agey magazines, postcards, etc. and a pub which I wouldn't recommend eating in unless you enjoy getting your food served either half cooked, or not served at all! I have no idea what their drinks are like, as I've never been back in there after twice being disappointed by their food. There *is*, however, a wonderful little veggie cafe called "Stones" (I think... although it might be "The Circle" now), which normally has a few vegan options.Oh, and if you're lucky, there are sometimes some sheep inside the circle! :-)BBPeter 2008/7/27 Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> I am going to Center Parcs in Wiltshire for a week tomorrow, and am keen ( wife & kidspermitting ) to go to Avebury. Have you ever been? whats it like? Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 Vegan desserts at Pick Me Up Cafe 1 Comment POSTED August 22, 8:01 AM Stacy Warden - Chicago Dessert Examiner nerdrock3r / Flickr Yesterday at Pick Me Up Cafe in Lakeview, I needed something sweet to soak up my coffee. I noticed a handful of vegan pastries on the menu, including cakes, brownies and Rice Krispy treats. When I asked my waitress, Amie, if they were any good, she bluntly replied, “I make all of the vegan treats here, so you’re barkin’ up the wrong tree.â€Amie was a snappy lady with ink. She wore a plaid 1950s style dress, and after hearing that she baked the sweets herself, I couldn’t decipher whether it was love or envy I was feeling for her. I figured out immediately, after trying one of her vegan delights, that it was certainly the former. I ended up settling for a vegan Rice Krispy treat when Amie informed me that she was out of cakes and brownies for the day. After poking at it with a fork a couple times, I finally gave up and popped a piece in my mouth. I have to say, I was pleasantly surprised. First of all, I’m not big on cereals that try to double as dessert. The only time I like sugar all messed up with the stuff is when it’s in a big bowl of Cinnamon Toast Crunch. And that’s usually only when I’m nursing a hangover. On top of that, Rice Krispy treats are just weird. They don’t even get baked, and personally, I think there’s something off about a dessert that gets better the longer it sits in a pan. Amie’s must have been in the pan for a while because every bite of the enormous square was spectacular. Each kernel remained intact while eating and there were no molar injuries to speak of. Amie either used a crunchy peanut butter or added her own chopped nuts, as there were tiny bits of them in nearly every bite. The square’s top was covered in a thin layer of carob, which was actually much sweeter than I anticipated. I didn’t mean to, but I ate the entire thing in one sitting. Topics: Peanut Butter , Lakeview , Pick Me Up Cafe , Vegan Peter vvSend instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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