Guest guest Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Does anyone here know how to make a vegan frappaccino or vegan mocha frappaccino with no sugar? Shelley H--- On Tue, 8/12/08, wrote: Digest Number 4266 Date: Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 11:58 PM Vegan Chat Messages In This Digest (25 Messages) 1. Re: Meteor Showers anybody? Peter VV 2a. Re: Funny Looking coffee? fraggle 2b. Re: Funny Looking coffee? Peter VV 2c. Re: Funny Looking coffee? fraggle 2d. Re: Funny Looking coffee? echolike 2e. Re: Funny Looking coffee? Peter VV 2f. Re: Funny Looking coffee? Peter VV 2g. Re: Funny Looking coffee? heartwerk 3a. Re: Creatures given more protection fraggle 3b. Re: Creatures given more protection echolike 3c. Re: Creatures given more protection Peter VV 3d. Re: Creatures given more protection fraggle 4. Re: Saul Williams Makes A Hearfelt Argument For Going Vegan Peter VV 5. Re: Eco-labels on food can cook up confusion Peter VV 6. Re: Vegan delights hit Croydon's Surrey Street Market Peter VV 7a. Re: How to have healthy hash browns Peter VV 7b. Re: How to have healthy hash browns fraggle 7c. Re: How to have healthy hash browns Peter VV 7d. Re: How to have healthy hash browns fraggle 7e. Re: How to have healthy hash browns Peter VV 8.1. Re: Olympics heartwerk 8.2. Re: Olympics heartwerk 9a. Re: Washing heartwerk 10a. Re: Eat ... anything local and wild heartwerk 11a. Re: Club VEG puts Binghamton on the list heartwerk View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages 1. Re: Meteor Showers anybody? Posted by: "Peter VV" swpgh01 bty406720 Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:24 pm (PDT) ShowerActive(Peak*)Best HemispherePerseids 23 Jul - 22 Aug(12 Aug 9.20am) North Orionids 15 - 29 Oct(21 Oct 1.30am) Both Leonids 13 - 20 Nov(17 Nov 7.30am) Both Geminids 6 - 19 Dec(13 Dec 8.45pm) Both Peter vvSend instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger . Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) 2a. Re: Funny Looking coffee? Posted by: "fraggle" EBbrewpunx ebbrewpunx Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:11 pm (PDT) body{font-family:Geneva,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;background- color:#ffffff;color: black;}yeah,i mean, the americas only gave up as you said, chilis,chocolate...tomatoescornpotatoessquashlima, butter, pinto, kidney, navy and pole beansavocadosunflowerspeanutsstoopid nary worthless continents:)and besides, the USA gave you GW...wot more could you wantPeter VVAug 12, 2008 10:44 AM@gro ups.comRe: Funny Looking coffee?Come on Jo, there isnt much that originates fromUSA......... ......... .:)Now cocoa, thats a different cuttle of chilies..... .....<http://profile. myspace.com/ index.cfm? fuseaction= user.viewprofile \ & friendid=123544694> Peter vvjo.heartwork <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 August, 2008 5:51:37 PMRe: Funny Looking coffee? That's strange - we all thought that we 'caught' coffeefrom America! Jo - fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> To:@gro ups.com <@gro ups.com> Monday, August 11, 2008 5:29 PM Re: Funny Looking coffee?rebecca can't start her day anymore without her organic coffeeand agave nectari blame you UKers...she never drank coffee, hated it (well, shestill hates it, but now she's trapped) until we went to Bath lastyear.you'll be hearing from attorney shortlyPeter VVAug 10, 2008 11:50 PM@gro ups.com<@gro ups.com>Re: Funny Looking Sheep?I drink Organic de-caff, costs an arm and a leg, but I only have1 cup a day as a treat so dont feel too guilty, wheras I spendmore on beer, but thats another story.<http://profile. myspace.com/ index.cfm? fuseaction= user.viewprofile \ & friendid=123544694> Peter vvSoyPalmtree SoyPalmtree <soypalmtree@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comMonday, 11 August, 2008 2:37:03 AMRe: Funny Looking Sheep?Okay, but coffee is a serious thing in this house. If you try todrink it without a least a little agave, you could go into arrestor something. I'm just saying. SoyPalmtreeOn Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com<swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> > wrote:I`ll take a coffe, hold the cream and sugar.<http://profile. myspace.com/ index.cfm? fuseaction= user.viewprofile \ & friendid=123544694> Peter vvSoyPalmtree SoyPalmtree <soypalmtree@ gmail.com<soypalmtree@ gmail.com> >@gro ups.com<@gro ups.com>Sunday, 10 August, 2008 6:21:51 PMRe: Funny Looking Sheep?Man, I love this group. Organic coffee and soy cream anyone?SoyPalmtreeOn Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 9:26 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ earthlink.net <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> > wrote:nuthin like warmer ocean temps to bring up all the mysteries ofthe sea...soon peter can marry a manatee...Peter VVAug 10, 2008 12:16 AM@gro ups.com<@gro ups.com>Re: Funny Looking Sheep?Gavin Davies, 34, will have a tall tale to tell for the rest ofhis life, an encounter with a blue marlin - believed to be thefirst in British waters. The 9ft 6in fish, weighing 450lb, wasdead when it was found at Saundersfoot, in West Wales, a popularfamily holiday resort, but still made a magnificent trophypicture for Mr Davies and his friends. Blue marlin usuallyinhabit the warmer waters of the mid-Atlantic and Caribbean.If the fish had been fresh it would have fetched more than£4,000 at market.<http://profile. myspace.com/ index.cfm? fuseaction= user.viewprofile \ & friendid=123544694> Peter vvNot happy with your email address?Get the one you really want<http://uk.docs. / ymail/new. html> - millions of newemail addresses available now at <http://uk.docs. / ymail/new. html>With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speechcensured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied,chains us all irrevocably.Not happy with your email address?Get the one you really want<http://uk.docs. / ymail/new. html> - millions of newemail addresses available now at <http://uk.docs. / ymail/new. html>Not happy with your email address?Get the one you really want<http://uk.docs. / ymail/new. html> - millions of newemail addresses available now at <http://uk.docs. / ymail/new. html>With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speechcensured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied,chains us all irrevocably.Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger .With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speechcensured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied,chains us all irrevocably. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (13) 2b. Re: Funny Looking coffee? Posted by: "Peter VV" swpgh01 bty406720 Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:29 pm (PDT) You forgot tobaco, south american marching powder, the NRA ( Its your god given right to bear a deadly weapon ), Burger giants ( and the obese population to match), The Osmonds, ok I will shut up now......... ... Peter vvfraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 August, 2008 9:09:33 PMRe: Funny Looking coffee?yeah,i mean, the americas only gave up as you said, chilis, chocolate...tomatoescornpotatoessquashlima, butter, pinto, kidney, navy and pole beansavocadosunflowerspeanutsstoopid nary worthless continents:)and besides, the USA gave you GW...wot more could you want Peter VV Aug 12, 2008 10:44 AM @gro ups.com Re: Funny Looking coffee? Come on Jo, there isnt much that originates from USA......... ......... .:)Now cocoa, thats a different cuttle of chilies..... ..... Peter vvjo.heartwork <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 August, 2008 5:51:37 PMRe: Funny Looking coffee? That's strange - we all thought that we 'caught' coffee from America! Jo - fraggle @gro ups.com Monday, August 11, 2008 5:29 PMRe: Funny Looking coffee?rebecca can't start her day anymore without her organic coffee and agave nectari blame you UKers...she never drank coffee, hated it (well, she still hates it, but now she's trapped) until we went to Bath last year.you'll be hearing from attorney shortly Peter VV Aug 10, 2008 11:50 PM @gro ups.com Re: Funny Looking Sheep? I drink Organic de-caff, costs an arm and a leg, but I only have 1 cup a day as a treat so dont feel too guilty, wheras I spend more on beer, but thats another story. Peter vvSoyPalmtree SoyPalmtree <soypalmtree@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comMonday, 11 August, 2008 2:37:03 AMRe: Funny Looking Sheep?Okay, but coffee is a serious thing in this house. If you try to drink it without a least a little agave, you could go into arrest or something. I'm just saying.SoyPalmtreeOn Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:I`ll take a coffe, hold the cream and sugar. Peter vvSoyPalmtree SoyPalmtree <soypalmtree@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSunday, 10 August, 2008 6:21:51 PMRe: Funny Looking Sheep?Man, I love this group. Organic coffee and soy cream anyone?SoyPalmtreeOn Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 9:26 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ earthlin k.net> wrote:nuthin like warmer ocean temps to bring up all the mysteries of the sea...soon peter can marry a manatee... Peter VV Aug 10, 2008 12:16 AM @gro ups.com Re: Funny Looking Sheep? Gavin Davies, 34, will have a tall tale to tell for the rest of his life, an encounter with a blue marlin - believed to be the first in British waters. The 9ft 6in fish, weighing 450lb, was dead when it was found at Saundersfoot, in West Wales, a popular family holiday resort, but still made a magnificent trophy picture for Mr Davies and his friends. Blue marlin usually inhabit the warmer waters of the mid-Atlantic and Caribbean. If the fish had been fresh it would have fetched more than £4,000 at market. Peter vv____________ _________ _________ __Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.____________ _________ _________ __Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at ____________ _________ _________ __Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger . With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger . Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (13) 2c. Re: Funny Looking coffee? Posted by: "fraggle" EBbrewpunx ebbrewpunx Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:49 pm (PDT) body{font-family:Geneva,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;background- color:#ffffff;color: black;}tequillasyphiliscranberriesthose cute lil birds that americans like to slaughter at the endof november in honor of them not ALL dying that year...vanillaWal-MartStarbuckscocoa-colathe neutron bombmom, apple pie, and chevrolet... .Peter VVAug 12, 2008 1:27 PM@gro ups.comRe: Funny Looking coffee?You forgot tobaco, south american marching powder, the NRA ( Itsyour god given right to bear a deadly weapon ), Burger giants (and the obese population to match), The Osmonds, ok I will shutup now......... ...<http://profile. myspace.com/ index.cfm? fuseaction= user.viewprofile \ & friendid=123544694> Peter vvfraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 August, 2008 9:09:33 PMRe: Funny Looking coffee?yeah,i mean, the americas only gave up as you said, chilis,chocolate...tomatoescornpotatoessquashlima, butter, pinto, kidney, navy and pole beansavocadosunflowerspeanutsstoopid nary worthless continents:)and besides, the USA gave you GW...wot more could you wantPeter VVAug 12, 2008 10:44 AM@gro ups.comRe: Funny Looking coffee?Come on Jo, there isnt much that originates from USA.................. .:)Now cocoa, thats a different cuttle of chilies..... .....<http://profile. myspace.com/ index.cfm? fuseaction= user.viewprofile \ & friendid=123544694> Peter vvjo.heartwork <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 August, 2008 5:51:37 PMRe: Funny Looking coffee? That's strange - we all thought that we 'caught' coffeefrom America! Jo - fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> To:@gro ups.com <@gro ups.com> Monday, August 11, 2008 5:29 PM Re: Funny Looking coffee?rebecca can't start her day anymore without her organic coffeeand agave nectari blame you UKers...she never drank coffee, hated it (well, shestill hates it, but now she's trapped) until we went to Bath lastyear.you'll be hearing from attorney shortlyPeter VVAug 10, 2008 11:50 PM@gro ups.com<@gro ups.com>Re: Funny Looking Sheep?I drink Organic de-caff, costs an arm and a leg, but I only have1 cup a day as a treat so dont feel too guilty, wheras I spendmore on beer, but thats another story.<http://profile. myspace.com/ index.cfm? fuseaction= user.viewprofile \ & friendid=123544694> Peter vvSoyPalmtree SoyPalmtree <soypalmtree@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comMonday, 11 August, 2008 2:37:03 AMRe: Funny Looking Sheep?Okay, but coffee is a serious thing in this house. If you try todrink it without a least a little agave, you could go into arrestor something. I'm just saying. SoyPalmtreeOn Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com<swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> > wrote:I`ll take a coffe, hold the cream and sugar.<http://profile. myspace.com/ index.cfm? fuseaction= user.viewprofile \ & friendid=123544694> Peter vvSoyPalmtree SoyPalmtree <soypalmtree@ gmail.com<soypalmtree@ gmail.com> >@gro ups.com<@gro ups.com>Sunday, 10 August, 2008 6:21:51 PMRe: Funny Looking Sheep?Man, I love this group. Organic coffee and soy cream anyone?SoyPalmtreeOn Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 9:26 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ earthlink.net <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> > wrote:nuthin like warmer ocean temps to bring up all the mysteries ofthe sea...soon peter can marry a manatee...Peter VVAug 10, 2008 12:16 AM@gro ups.com<@gro ups.com>Re: Funny Looking Sheep?Gavin Davies, 34, will have a tall tale to tell for the rest ofhis life, an encounter with a blue marlin - believed to be thefirst in British waters. The 9ft 6in fish, weighing 450lb, wasdead when it was found at Saundersfoot, in West Wales, a popularfamily holiday resort, but still made a magnificent trophypicture for Mr Davies and his friends. Blue marlin usuallyinhabit the warmer waters of the mid-Atlantic and Caribbean.If the fish had been fresh it would have fetched more than£4,000 at market.<http://profile. myspace.com/ index.cfm? fuseaction= user.viewprofile \ & friendid=123544694> Peter vvNot happy with your email address?Get the one you really want<http://uk.docs. / ymail/new. html> - millions of newemail addresses available now at <http://uk.docs. / ymail/new. html>With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speechcensured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied,chains us all irrevocably.Not happy with your email address?Get the one you really want<http://uk.docs. / ymail/new. html> - millions of newemail addresses available now at <http://uk.docs. / ymail/new. html>Not happy with your email address?Get the one you really want<http://uk.docs. / ymail/new. html> - millions of newemail addresses available now at <http://uk.docs. / ymail/new. html>With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speechcensured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied,chains us all irrevocably.Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speechcensured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied,chains us all irrevocably.Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger .With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speechcensured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied,chains us all irrevocably. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (13) 2d. Re: Funny Looking coffee? Posted by: "echolike" echolike seeryus Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:56 pm (PDT) Didn't those pilgrims bring coffee with them?? --- On Tue, 8/12/08, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> wrote:fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>Re: Funny Looking coffee?@gro ups.comTuesday, August 12, 2008, 12:28 PMwell, ya'll had coffee first, no?coffee shops were in london in the 17th century weren't they?i guess tea was an easier monopoly at the time to control:)i have two friends, they work at opposing coffee chains (peets and starbux), and any time they are together, it turns into a 2 hr discussion on who has better burnt mud... "jo.heartwork" Aug 12, 2008 9:51 AM @gro ups.com Re: Funny Looking coffee?  That's strange - we all thought that we 'caught' coffee from America! Jo - fraggle @gro ups.com Monday, August 11, 2008 5:29 PMRe: Funny Looking coffee?rebecca can't start her day anymore without her organic coffee and agave nectari blame you UKers...she never drank coffee, hated it (well, she still hates it, but now she's trapped) until we went to Bath last year.you'll be hearing from attorney shortly Peter VV Aug 10, 2008 11:50 PM @gro ups.com Re: Funny Looking Sheep? I drink Organic de-caff, costs an arm and a leg, but I only have 1 cup a day as a treat so dont feel too guilty, wheras I spend more on beer, but thats another story. Peter vvSoyPalmtree SoyPalmtree <soypalmtree@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comMonday, 11 August, 2008 2:37:03 AMRe: Funny Looking Sheep?Okay, but coffee is a serious thing in this house. If you try to drink it without a least a little agave, you could go into arrest or something. I'm just saying.SoyPalmtreeOn Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:I`ll take a coffe, hold the cream and sugar. Peter vvSoyPalmtree SoyPalmtree <soypalmtree@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSunday, 10 August, 2008 6:21:51 PMRe: Funny Looking Sheep?Man, I love this group. Organic coffee and soy cream anyone?SoyPalmtreeOn Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 9:26 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ earthlin k.net> wrote:nuthin like warmer ocean temps to bring up all the mysteries of the sea...soon peter can marry a manatee... Peter VV Aug 10, 2008 12:16 AM @gro ups.com Re: Funny Looking Sheep? Gavin Davies, 34, will have a tall tale to tell for the rest of his life, an encounter with a blue marlin - believed to be the first in British waters. The 9ft 6in fish, weighing 450lb, was dead when it was found at Saundersfoot, in West Wales, a popular family holiday resort, but still made a magnificent trophy picture for Mr Davies and his friends. Blue marlin usually inhabit the warmer waters of the mid-Atlantic and Caribbean. If the fish had been fresh it would have fetched more than £4,000 at market. Peter vvNot happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (13) 2e. Re: Funny Looking coffee? Posted by: "Peter VV" swpgh01 bty406720 Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:00 pm (PDT) You are claiming syphilis, tequila, vanila cranberries and apple pie?Wow , thats some party! Peter vvfraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 August, 2008 9:49:24 PMRe: Funny Looking coffee?tequillasyphiliscranberriesthose cute lil birds that americans like to slaughter at the end of november in honor of them not ALL dying that year...vanilla Wal-MartStarbuckscocoa-colathe neutron bombmom, apple pie, and chevrolet... . Peter VV Aug 12, 2008 1:27 PM @gro ups.com Re: Funny Looking coffee? You forgot tobaco, south american marching powder, the NRA ( Its your god given right to bear a deadly weapon ), Burger giants ( and the obese population to match), The Osmonds, ok I will shut up now......... ... Peter vvfraggle <EBbrewpunx@ earthlin k.net>@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 August, 2008 9:09:33 PMRe: Funny Looking coffee?yeah,i mean, the americas only gave up as you said, chilis, chocolate...tomatoescornpotatoessquashlima, butter, pinto, kidney, navy and pole beansavocadosunflowerspeanutsstoopid nary worthless continents:)and besides, the USA gave you GW...wot more could you want Peter VV Aug 12, 2008 10:44 AM @gro ups.com Re: Funny Looking coffee? Come on Jo, there isnt much that originates from USA......... ......... .:)Now cocoa, thats a different cuttle of chilies..... ..... Peter vvjo.heartwork <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 August, 2008 5:51:37 PMRe: Funny Looking coffee? That's strange - we all thought that we 'caught' coffee from America! Jo - fraggle @gro ups.com Monday, August 11, 2008 5:29 PMRe: Funny Looking coffee?rebecca can't start her day anymore without her organic coffee and agave nectari blame you UKers...she never drank coffee, hated it (well, she still hates it, but now she's trapped) until we went to Bath last year.you'll be hearing from attorney shortly Peter VV Aug 10, 2008 11:50 PM @gro ups.com Re: Funny Looking Sheep? I drink Organic de-caff, costs an arm and a leg, but I only have 1 cup a day as a treat so dont feel too guilty, wheras I spend more on beer, but thats another story. Peter vvSoyPalmtree SoyPalmtree <soypalmtree@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comMonday, 11 August, 2008 2:37:03 AMRe: Funny Looking Sheep?Okay, but coffee is a serious thing in this house. If you try to drink it without a least a little agave, you could go into arrest or something. I'm just saying.SoyPalmtreeOn Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:I`ll take a coffe, hold the cream and sugar. Peter vvSoyPalmtree SoyPalmtree <soypalmtree@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSunday, 10 August, 2008 6:21:51 PMRe: Funny Looking Sheep?Man, I love this group. Organic coffee and soy cream anyone?SoyPalmtreeOn Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 9:26 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ earthlin k.net> wrote:nuthin like warmer ocean temps to bring up all the mysteries of the sea...soon peter can marry a manatee... Peter VV Aug 10, 2008 12:16 AM @gro ups.com Re: Funny Looking Sheep? Gavin Davies, 34, will have a tall tale to tell for the rest of his life, an encounter with a blue marlin - believed to be the first in British waters. The 9ft 6in fish, weighing 450lb, was dead when it was found at Saundersfoot, in West Wales, a popular family holiday resort, but still made a magnificent trophy picture for Mr Davies and his friends. Blue marlin usually inhabit the warmer waters of the mid-Atlantic and Caribbean. If the fish had been fresh it would have fetched more than £4,000 at market. Peter vv____________ _________ _________ __Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.____________ _________ _________ __Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at ____________ _________ _________ __Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger . With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger . With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger . Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (13) 2f. Re: Funny Looking coffee? Posted by: "Peter VV" swpgh01 bty406720 Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:02 pm (PDT) yep, cofee and syphilis!he, he....... .... Peter vvecholike <echolike >@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 August, 2008 9:00:35 PMRe: Funny Looking coffee? Didn't those pilgrims bring coffee with them?? --- On Tue, 8/12/08, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ earthlin k.net> wrote:fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ earthlin k.net>Re: Funny Looking coffee?@gro ups.comTuesday, August 12, 2008, 12:28 PMwell, ya'll had coffee first, no?coffee shops were in london in the 17th century weren't they?i guess tea was an easier monopoly at the time to control:)i have two friends, they work at opposing coffee chains (peets and starbux), and any time they are together, it turns into a 2 hr discussion on who has better burnt mud... "jo.heartwork" Aug 12, 2008 9:51 AM @gro ups.com Re: Funny Looking coffee?  That's strange - we all thought that we 'caught' coffee from America! Jo - fraggle @gro ups.com Monday, August 11, 2008 5:29 PMRe: Funny Looking coffee?rebecca can't start her day anymore without her organic coffee and agave nectari blame you UKers...she never drank coffee, hated it (well, she still hates it, but now she's trapped) until we went to Bath last year.you'll be hearing from attorney shortly Peter VV Aug 10, 2008 11:50 PM @gro ups.com Re: Funny Looking Sheep? I drink Organic de-caff, costs an arm and a leg, but I only have 1 cup a day as a treat so dont feel too guilty, wheras I spend more on beer, but thats another story. Peter vvSoyPalmtree SoyPalmtree <soypalmtree@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comMonday, 11 August, 2008 2:37:03 AMRe: Funny Looking Sheep?Okay, but coffee is a serious thing in this house. If you try to drink it without a least a little agave, you could go into arrest or something. I'm just saying.SoyPalmtreeOn Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:I`ll take a coffe, hold the cream and sugar. Peter vvSoyPalmtree SoyPalmtree <soypalmtree@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSunday, 10 August, 2008 6:21:51 PMRe: Funny Looking Sheep?Man, I love this group. Organic coffee and soy cream anyone?SoyPalmtreeOn Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 9:26 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ earthlin k.net> wrote:nuthin like warmer ocean temps to bring up all the mysteries of the sea...soon peter can marry a manatee... Peter VV Aug 10, 2008 12:16 AM @gro ups.com Re: Funny Looking Sheep? Gavin Davies, 34, will have a tall tale to tell for the rest of his life, an encounter with a blue marlin - believed to be the first in British waters. The 9ft 6in fish, weighing 450lb, was dead when it was found at Saundersfoot, in West Wales, a popular family holiday resort, but still made a magnificent trophy picture for Mr Davies and his friends. Blue marlin usually inhabit the warmer waters of the mid-Atlantic and Caribbean. If the fish had been fresh it would have fetched more than £4,000 at market. Peter vv____________ _________ _________ __Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.____________ _________ _________ __Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at ____________ _________ _________ __Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger . Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (13) 2g. Re: Funny Looking coffee? Posted by: "heartwerk" jo.heartwork heartwerk Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:58 pm (PDT) I hadn't thought of the history. Maybe coffee just wasn't popular among the working classes when I was a child. Tea was the beverage that everyone consumed.JoRe: Funny Looking coffee? well, ya'll had coffee first, no?coffee shops were in london in the 17th century weren't they?i guess tea was an easier monopoly at the time to control:)i have two friends, they work at opposing coffee chains (peets and starbux), and any time they are together, it turns into a 2 hr discussion on who has better burnt mud... Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (13) 3a. Re: Creatures given more protection Posted by: "fraggle" EBbrewpunx ebbrewpunx Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:12 pm (PDT) body{font-family:Geneva,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;background- color:#ffffff;color: black;}awwwww voles are so dang cute...Peter VVAug 12, 2008 11:55 AM@gro ups.comRe: Creatures given more protection[A water vole] The water vole is becoming increasinglyrare in Welsh riversThe Welsh Assembly Government has extended the law to help savefive under-threat animals from harm.Environment Minister Jane Davidson has announced improvedprotection for angel sharks, water voles, Roman snails and spinyand short-snouted seahorses.It means it will be an offence to kill, injure or take any of thespecies from their natural habitats in the future.In addition, possessing or selling a water vole, roman snail orany of the seahorses will also become an offence.The new provisions come under the Wildlife and Countryside Act1981 with each of the animals now sharing the same protection asthe already protected otter and grass snake.All of the species are very elusive and difficult to spot,according to experts.The water vole is found throughout the rivers of Wales, althoughis becoming increasingly rare. Roman snails are more common incentral England and larger than most snails.Short snouted seahorses are not usually found in Wales but in theChannel Islands and the coast of southern England.The Spiny seahorse is mainly found off the coast of southernEngland, although there have been sightings along the west Walescoast.The Angel Shark is very rare but there have been sightings alongthe north and west coast of Wales - off Anglesey, Llyn peninsulaand Pembrokeshire.Anyone found not obeying the new legislation could face a maximum£5,000 fine and six months imprisonment.The same legislation was introduced in England in February andfurther species will be considered for addition to the list ofprotected species later this year.Ms Davidson said the move will ensure a more secure future foreach of the species now covered by the law."It is in all our interests that Wales's valuable wildlife isprotected, and a lot of work has been done to ensure that thelist of species being protected is comprehensive, " she said.Iwan Hughes, a species protection officer for the CountrysideCouncil for Wales (CCW) said: "CCW welcomes the addition of thesespecies to the protected species list. These additions indicatethe vulnerability of these species in Wales and the need toprotect them for future generations. "<http://profile. myspace.com/ index.cfm? fuseaction= user.viewprofile \ & friendid=123544694> Peter vvSend instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger .With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speechcensured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied,chains us all irrevocably. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (5) 3b. Re: Creatures given more protection Posted by: "echolike" echolike seeryus Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:56 pm (PDT) looks like our beaver??--- On Tue, 8/12/08, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> wrote:fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>Re: Creatures given more protection@gro ups.comTuesday, August 12, 2008, 3:12 PMawwwww voles are so dang cute... Peter VV Aug 12, 2008 11:55 AM @gro ups.com Re: Creatures given more protection The water vole is becoming increasingly rare in Welsh riversThe Welsh Assembly Government has extended the law to help save five under-threat animals from harm. Environment Minister Jane Davidson has announced improved protection for angel sharks, water voles, Roman snails and spiny and short-snouted seahorses. It means it will be an offence to kill, injure or take any of the species from their natural habitats in the future. In addition, possessing or selling a water vole, roman snail or any of the seahorses will also become an offence. The new provisions come under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 with each of the animals now sharing the same protection as the already protected otter and grass snake. All of the species are very elusive and difficult to spot, according to experts. The water vole is found throughout the rivers of Wales, although is becoming increasingly rare. Roman snails are more common in central England and larger than most snails. Short snouted seahorses are not usually found in Wales but in the Channel Islands and the coast of southern England. The Spiny seahorse is mainly found off the coast of southern England, although there have been sightings along the west Wales coast. The Angel Shark is very rare but there have been sightings along the north and west coast of Wales - off Anglesey, Llyn peninsula and Pembrokeshire. Anyone found not obeying the new legislation could face a maximum £5,000 fine and six months imprisonment. The same legislation was introduced in England in February and further species will be considered for addition to the list of protected species later this year. Ms Davidson said the move will ensure a more secure future for each of the species now covered by the law. "It is in all our interests that Wales's valuable wildlife is protected, and a lot of work has been done to ensure that the list of species being protected is comprehensive, " she said. Iwan Hughes, a species protection officer for the Countryside Council for Wales (CCW) said: "CCW welcomes the addition of these species to the protected species list. These additions indicate the vulnerability of these species in Wales and the need to protect them for future generations. " Peter vvSend instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger . With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (5) 3c. Re: Creatures given more protection Posted by: "Peter VV" swpgh01 bty406720 Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:01 pm (PDT) NO,......... ......... ......... ......... .......No, ......... ......... ......... ....msut resist,..... ......... ..must resist...... ......... ......... .......argh! Peter vvecholike <echolike >@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 August, 2008 9:18:29 PMRe: Creatures given more protectionlooks like our beaver??--- On Tue, 8/12/08, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ earthlin k.net> wrote:fraggle <EBbrewpunx@ earthlin k.net>Re: Creatures given more protection@gro ups.comTuesday, August 12, 2008, 3:12 PMawwwww voles are so dang cute... -----Original Message----- Peter VV Aug 12, 2008 11:55 AM @gro ups.com Re: Creatures given more protection The water vole is becoming increasingly rare in Welsh riversThe Welsh Assembly Government has extended the law to help save five under-threat animals from harm. Environment Minister Jane Davidson has announced improved protection for angel sharks, water voles, Roman snails and spiny and short-snouted seahorses. It means it will be an offence to kill, injure or take any of the species from their natural habitats in the future. In addition, possessing or selling a water vole, roman snail or any of the seahorses will also become an offence. The new provisions come under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 with each of the animals now sharing the same protection as the already protected otter and grass snake. All of the species are very elusive and difficult to spot, according to experts. The water vole is found throughout the rivers of Wales, although is becoming increasingly rare. Roman snails are more common in central England and larger than most snails. Short snouted seahorses are not usually found in Wales but in the Channel Islands and the coast of southern England. The Spiny seahorse is mainly found off the coast of southern England, although there have been sightings along the west Wales coast. The Angel Shark is very rare but there have been sightings along the north and west coast of Wales - off Anglesey, Llyn peninsula and Pembrokeshire. Anyone found not obeying the new legislation could face a maximum £5,000 fine and six months imprisonment. The same legislation was introduced in England in February and further species will be considered for addition to the list of protected species later this year. Ms Davidson said the move will ensure a more secure future for each of the species now covered by the law. "It is in all our interests that Wales's valuable wildlife is protected, and a lot of work has been done to ensure that the list of species being protected is comprehensive, " she said. Iwan Hughes, a species protection officer for the Countryside Council for Wales (CCW) said: "CCW welcomes the addition of these species to the protected species list. These additions indicate the vulnerability of these species in Wales and the need to protect them for future generations. " Peter vvSend instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger . With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger . Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (5) 3d. Re: Creatures given more protection Posted by: "fraggle" EBbrewpunx ebbrewpunx Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:11 pm (PDT) body{font-family:Geneva,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;background- color:#ffffff;color: black;}just smaller, and without the paddle-like tail...voles have shortish furred tails...echolikeAug 12, 2008 1:18 PM@gro ups.comRe: Creatures given more protectionlooks like our beaver??--- On Tue, 8/12/08, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> wrote:fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>Re: Creatures given more protection@gro ups.comTuesday, August 12, 2008, 3:12 PMawwwww voles are so dang cute...Peter VVAug 12, 2008 11:55 AM@gro ups.comRe: Creatures given more protection[A water vole] The water vole is becoming increasinglyrare in Welsh riversThe Welsh Assembly Government has extended the law to help savefive under-threat animals from harm. Environment Minister JaneDavidson has announced improved protection for angel sharks,water voles, Roman snails and spiny and short-snouted seahorses. It means it will be an offence to kill, injure or take any of thespecies from their natural habitats in the future. In addition,possessing or selling a water vole, roman snail or any of theseahorses will also become an offence. The new provisions comeunder the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 with each of theanimals now sharing the same protection as the already protectedotter and grass snake. All of the species are very elusive anddifficult to spot, according to experts. The water vole is foundthroughout the rivers of Wales, although is becoming increasinglyrare. Roman snails are more common in central England and largerthan most snails. Short snouted seahorses are not usually foundin Wales but in the Channel Islands and the coast of southernEngland. The Spiny seahorse is mainly found off the coast ofsouthern England, although there have been sightings along thewest Wales coast. The Angel Shark is very rare but there havebeen sightings along the north and west coast of Wales - offAnglesey, Llyn peninsula and Pembrokeshire. Anyone found notobeying the new legislation could face a maximum £5,000 fineand six months imprisonment. The same legislation was introducedin England in February and further species will be considered foraddition to the list of protected species later this year. MsDavidson said the move will ensure a more secure future for eachof the species now covered by the law. "It is in all ourinterests that Wales's valuable wildlife is protected, and a lotof work has been done to ensure that the list of species beingprotected is comprehensive, " she said. Iwan Hughes, a speciesprotection officer for the Countryside Council for Wales (CCW)said: "CCW welcomes the addition of these species to theprotected species list. These additions indicate thevulnerability of these species in Wales and the need to protectthem for future generations. "<http://profile. myspace.com/ index.cfm? fuseaction= user.viewprofile \ & friendid=123544694> Peter vvSend instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. With the first link, the chain is forged. The firstspeech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedomdenied, chains us all irrevocably.With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speechcensured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied,chains us all irrevocably. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (5) 4. Re: Saul Williams Makes A Hearfelt Argument For Going Vegan Posted by: "Peter VV" swpgh01 bty406720 Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:44 pm (PDT) Filed under: animals, food & drink — michael @ 1:21 pmAmerican poet, writer, actor and musician Saul Williams has just released a fine commentary on the merits of transitioning society away from one involved with factory farming and abusing animals to one that lives in harmony with all creatures and abolishes cruelty. Here’s a highlight of some of the questions he asks:“How is it that we as human beings can represent both the highest and most developed and lowest and least concerned forms of intelligence of any living species? Are we simply glued to age-old barbaric traditions that cloud our senses and render us inhumane in our dependence on comfort foods and practices? Is our dependence on foreign oil the only thing we need to curb? What about not-so-foreign species?â€Saul released these thoughts in his latest newsletter to fans. I highly encourage a read of the entire piece after the jump. And many thanks to Ryan for the tip in the right direction.Dear Friends,Although I cannot boast a lifetime of keeping my views to myself, I have seldom taken on the responsibility of trying to change someone (alright, maybe a few girlfriends, but you’ll never hold me to that). However, this year for me has been one of aggressively shifting from a reluctant pursuit of change and growth to taking a proactive stance on what I believe in times that I see as clearly representative of a societal paradigm shift both necessary and urgent for our country and world.I received a lot of questions from some about why I would allow my song ‘List of Demands’ to be used in a Nike campaign. Ironically, half of the people now reading this post never heard of me until that commercial aired. That, indeed, was one of my reasons for allowing it. A small circle of poets and conscious do-gooders are not enough to effect the change necessary to shift our planet in peril. We must enlist people from all walks of life, people not accustomed to questioning the norm, people who may simply want to dance uninterrupted without message or slogan. I see no glory in ‘preaching to the converted’. Furthermore, I believe fully in the power of music and have branded my work with it’s own conscientious stamp and stomp of attitude fueled to steal the show in the face of the nonsensical. Quite simply, it was clear to me that people would not be rushing to the store to buy Nikes after seeing that commercial, but rather rushing to youtubeor itunes to hear or download the song. I even imagined those who would be rushing to blogs to question how I could allow this to happen and the subsequent discussion of the ethical treatment of factory workers and how new minds would be informed and enlisted in the struggle for ethical change.As an artist that characterizes himself and his work as a hybrid synthesis of creativity and responsibility I am forced to make politicized choices, weigh evils, and work strategically to make a living and contribute to the change I wish to see in my lifetime. For instance, the groundbreaking digital release of The Inevitable Rise and Liberation of NiggyTardust! wasn’t done simply because I wanted to give my album away for free and maintain my independence as an artist, but also because record companies left me little choice. As a musician I have been signed to both Columbia/Sony and Island/Def Jam rosters and have faced consistent naysayers who have basically insisted that I choose the type of music I am going to make and if the choice wasn’t according to their definition of hip hop showed little faith in it or in the possibility of a wide public supporting it, without realizing their role in determining what the public supports. Radio stationsfollowed suit in determining my music not urban, alternative, or rock enough. Of course my music showed more rock influence than Eminem but the KROQ’s of the world seemed to be basing their definition of rock on something a little more surface than sound, at the time. Thus, I have always found myself with fans that have through their own hard work and diligence fought through the norm to find me, yet still voice surprise that more people haven’t.The compliment “you’re ahead of your timeâ€, often feels more like a curse than a gift from a well-wisher. I have never considered myself ahead of my time simply because a few executives may not have been visionary enough to determine where music or antiquated ideas of race are heading or to realize their role in continually underestimating the intelligence of the listener and our generation. Rather I have seen those ‘powers that be’ as behind the times and perpetuators of an old cycle. Likewise, I have seen their over-turn as inevitable. Thus, The Inevitable Rise and Liberation of NiggyTardust! simply came at a point when I realized that we were, indeed, living at a crossroads and Victor Hugo’s saying, “There’s nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has comeâ€, came to life.Without question, we are living in powerful times, a time where the powers of being will truly prevail over the powers that be. This is evident in the political sector where it has become clear, at least to me, that my support of Barack Obama is not because he’s black, but because he seems to represent both symbolically and ideologically many of those ideas and ideals whose time has come. Ideas of the divine need for change (â€God’s just a baby and her diaper is wet.†Get it?) in how we look at the world, ourselves, and at our individual and communal powers. The idea that might is right, that we demonstrate our power with aggressive force is great for football teams, but hardly the best idea for a country whose running source of pride has historically been the evidence of our collective imagination: our music; our films; our amusement parks; and the technology we create to share it. These products of peace are the things that made the worldinitially fall in love with us. We have rooted ourselves in a growing sense of independence as evidenced through our historic social movements, always upgrading our beliefs and laws to reflect our broadening understanding and vision. Of course, many, if not most, would label this a very optimistic perspective of the ongoing struggle for justice and equal opportunity for all people in this land. There is still a fight to have our voices heard and many of us when given the opportunity to speak seem to have very little to say. Then are those who have consistently fought against growth and change, who would rather fight for their right to maintain their antiquated, sometimes ignorant points of view, as if the age of the perspectives themselves is what validates them. Yet, the first technology is of the mind. It is the shift in perspective that allows us to streamline possibilities of understanding as reflected through invention. And quite simply, we arecoming of age.In this age it is our responsibility to challenge ourselves beyond cultural traditions and delineate between what we have perpetuated through ignorance rather than wisdom. We face an opportunity to broaden our worldview through the exchange of technology and information. We need not rely on what teachings of the past could not anticipate. It is an opportunity to forge ahead and beyond the wavering shortsightedness of our religious leaders, elected officials, teachers, principals, and sometimes parents and live in simple accordance with what we can feel deep within ourselves. We should no longer be surprised to sometimes find ourselves seemingly more intelligent, informed, or insightful than our leaders and bosses, rather we should feel encouraged to inspire and share our most informed selves in our every encounter. And that, my friends, is what has led me to write you today.While sitting on a plane, on my way back from Lollapalooza, reading Thanking The Monkey by Karen Dawn, it struck me that this was the second awesomely inspiring and informative book I was reading this summer without sharing my thanks by spreading the word. I am sometimes hesitant about making a big deal about my vegan diet, as I have considered it a personal choice worth little discussion. Yet more and more, I have found myself attempting to encourage people who ask me where I find my inspiration, or what issues do I find important, or how can we curb warfare and violence to consider what we ingest. A story was recently recounted to me of a popular TV chef who chose to raise little piglets on his show to insure that they were fed organic food and not injected with chemicals (as is the practice on most factory farms), all for the sake of fattening them up for their slaughter and another primetime recipe. Yet, the time that this chef spent with these pigstaught him a valuable lesson (more valuable for the pigs, no doubt). What he learned was how intelligent pigs are. In fact, in recent times, it is common knowledge for most that pigs are arguably more intelligent than “mans best friend†and companion, the dog. For our chef, this meant switching gears and realizing that he could not consciously kill this intelligent animal, that it would constitute a murder as brutal as slicing your fluffy pets neck and watching it writhe and bleed to death, or sticking an electric prod up its ass and electrocuting it, if the fur or skin is of value…It may seem like I have just taken a turn to the graphically extreme, I wouldn’t want to make you “lose your lunchâ€, but these are the common practices perpetuated by the factory farm industry on millions of animals a day, in the name of your breakfast lunch and dinner. And, no, I’m not simply talking about pigs, but also cows, chickens, turkey, horses (that’s right horses. Everyday), and fish. Everyday, our species participates in the mass genocide of other species without care or concern or even questioning whether the violence that we ingest and condone plays any role in our apathetic support of the war machine we have become. How is it that we as human beings can represent both the highest and most developed and lowest and least concerned forms of intelligence of any living species? Are we simply glued to age-old barbaric traditions that cloud our senses and render us inhumane in our dependence on comfort foods and practices? Is ourdependence on foreign oil the only thing we need to curb? What about not so foreign species?Some might argue that artists are a race or species apart from the common person. Yet we all identify with the teachings of Gandhi, the genius of Einstein, the art of Leonardo Da Vinci, Picasso, Rembrandt and the talent and compassion of living artists like Alice Walker, Will Smith, The Mars Volta, Dead Prez, Prince and countless others. Some of us choose to emulate their styles, their fashion, their career choices, but why not their diets? If our brightest most celebrated stars all have this one thing in common why are we so slow in connecting the dots for ourselves? Perhaps the biggest issue at hand is not what our cars run on, but essentially what do we run on? The fact is that factory farms are the number one users of crude oil, not cars. That’s basically what it takes to kill approximately one million chickens per hour (just in the US). More than half of our water supply goes to feed animals being fattened for slaughter. The methane gases thatcontribute to global warming are produced majorly by cow farts in factory farms, not to mention the amount of fossil fuels needed to create just one pound of beef.Yep. You doing the math? Basically if we shifted our compassion towards animals, the domino effect would heal the planet. We’d no longer be cutting down rain forests to create more space for cows to graze, we’d stop depleting the ocean of the necessary (keyword: necessary) food chains that our eco system depends on, diseases including many cancers, heart disease, obesity, and others which find their root in the food/toxins we ingest would slowly disappear as would our taste for violence.Which brings me to the other book I read this summer that inspired me to reevaluate every aspect of what I’ve been taught through the news and media, especially concerning the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. That book is The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein.So what are you reading?I know what you should be listening to,Niggy. Peter vvSend instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger . Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) 5. Re: Eco-labels on food can cook up confusion Posted by: "Peter VV" swpgh01 bty406720 Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:46 pm (PDT) http://www.democrat andchronicle. com/apps/ pbcs.dll/ article?AID= /20080812/ LIVING/808120303 /1032We want our food choices to nourish and sustain our bodies. But increasingly, consumers are looking for foods produced in ways that are also good for the Earth.Consequently, farmers, producers and food manufacturers want to communicate these eco-friendlier growing practices so that consumers can decide which products are aligned with their environmental philosophies and whether these products' higher prices are worth it.Organic is the benchmark of eco-labels, with the federal government backing its definitions, standards and verification process since 2002. But it is by far not alone. Eco-label terms, seals or logos — grass-fed, free-range, bird-friendly and beyond — are showing up more frequently in all food categories."Green is the new fad on a lot of levels," says Urvashi Rangan, director of the Greener Choices program at Consumer Reports magazine. "As people grow more conscious about their personal health, you inevitably get to the environment. "Some of these terms have government rules or guidelines prescribing their use. Others are certified by private third-party companies or organizations that have detailed criteria and standards that must be met by the producer. And some have very little meaning at all, except for what the manufacturer or producer assigns to it."There are a lot of green traps out there amidst companies and labels that are doing the right thing," Rangan says.One misleading and overused eco-term is "natural." For meat and poultry, the U.S. Department of Agriculture' s definition only means that no artificial flavoring, color ingredients, chemical preservatives or artificial or synthetic ingredients were used and the meat and poultry was minimally processed. Beyond those parameters, marketers for other products can use the word however they see fit.Rangan's advice is to seek out eco-labels that are backed by clear standards and criteria and are verified either by third-party agencies or independent organizations. The more specific the claim, the better. In the case where labels don't exist, such as at farmers markets and farm stands, ask a lot of questions.Here we introduce some of the more commonly seen eco-label terms and logos, and explain what they mean.SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTUREOrganic: Since 2002, anything bearing the USDA organic symbol means the food has been produced without conventional pesticides and fertilizers. Antibiotics, growth hormones, sewage sludge, irradiation, animal byproducts and genetically modified ingredients are also banned. Foods with the USDA organic logo must be certified by a USDA-accredited certifier. Consumers Union, the nonprofit publisher of Consumer Reports, considers organic standards "rigorous and (they) add considerable value to conventional food production." Small producers who sell less than $5,000 a year can label food products organic without certification as long as they follow federal criteria, which may be the case with small family farms selling at local markets.Increasingly, products that are certified organic will add eco-claims already covered under certification, such as "non-GMO" or "produced without dangerous pesticides.""These statements do not make the product any more organic than the competing organic product next to it that does not make the claim," Steve Zoller, a consultant in Mount Morris, Livingston County, who works with food companies on label compliance, writes in an e-mail.There are, however, labeling rules for levels of organic content. A product labeled "100 percent organic" must be just that; "organic" must have at least 95 percent organic ingredients, and "made with organic ingredients" must contain at least 70 percent organic ingredients.The Farmer's Pledge: Because most farms must be certified in order to label their food organic, those who forego certification must find a creative way to convey how their food is produced.In 2003, the Northeast Organic Farming Association of New York introduced The Farmer's Pledge. The pledge outlines organic farming methods as well as a farming philosophy that supporters say go above and beyond standards set by U.S. Department of Agriculture' s National Organic Program.You are most likely to see this eco-label at area farmers markets and farm stands.Biodynamic: Demeter Biodynamic is a nongovernmental certified farming program that advocates say goes beyond organic in its strict adherence to weed and pest management, crop rotation and composting. The biodynamic farming movement goes back to the 1920s and also incorporates spiritual elements, such as following a harvest schedule set by moon cycles. Consumers Union calls Demeter Biodynamic "a highly meaningful sustainable agriculture label."No genetic engineering: Since so many processed foods contain soy or corn in some capacity, it's likely that you are already eating genetically modified organisms without knowing it. There is no law requiring genetically modified foods to be labeled as such, much to the chagrin of anti-GMO activists. The Food and Drug Administration frowns on usage such as GMO-free, arguing that testing is the only way to guarantee no traces of genetically altered material. Instead, you see claims such as "Made with no genetically engineered ingredients. "If you want to avoid GMOs, buy certified organic or other certified labels that ban genetically modified ingredients.COFFEE, TEA, CHOCOLATEFair Trade Certified: The Fair Trade label is first and foremost a social justice signifier ensuring that growers of coffee, tea, chocolate, tropical fruits, rice, sugar and other foods receive a fair price, work under fair conditions and have community-building opportunities. Certified growers are prohibited from using GMOs, must limit the use of the most harmful chemical inputs and are encouraged to farm sustainably to protect soil, water and farmworkers' health. Like certified organic, Fair Trade has become a globally significant eco-label, with Starbucks, Target, Wal-Mart and other international retailers buying significant quantities of certified product.Bird Friendly: The Smithsonian Migratory Bird Center's Bird Friendly program certifies coffee growers whose shade management practices protect bird habitat in tropical regions.Rainforest Alliance Certified: This certification program follows rules set by the Sustainable Agriculture Network geared toward promoting sound pest management for coffee, chocolate, bananas and other crops; wildlife conservation; and fair labor practices.SEAFOODThe seafood industry faces many environmental challenges, from overfishing, bycatch and habitat destruction to disease, pollution and escapes associated with certain types of aquaculture. In addition to the following certification and education programs, many fisheries, manufacturers, restaurants and retailers have their own sustainability policies and standards. Marine Stewardship Council: The Marine Stewardship Council is a nonprofit organization that certifies fisheries, manufacturers and retailers. Its label appears on fresh, frozen and canned products. The MSC certification program certifies fisheries from around the globe that keep sustainable stocks and put into practice environmentally sound management techniques.Although it does not display the certification, Wegmans sells MSC-certified sea bass, wild-caught salmon, halibut, Pacific cod and western Australian lobster tails, says spokeswoman Jeanne Colleluori. The chain received MSC certification last year.Dolphin-safe: There is a federal definition for the dolphin-safe label, and in some cases, fishing practices are verified by an independent organization, but the term can appear on canned tuna labels without any certification or agency oversight.Seafood Watch: The Monterey Bay Aquarium's Seafood Watch is not a certification program, but a consumer-targeted education campaign that rates the eco-friendliness of different types of farmed and wild-caught seafood and explains the impact of each. Visit www.seafoodwatch. org.MEATS, POULTRY, EGGS, DAIRYGrass-fed: Grass-fed animals used for meat and dairy products require fewer commercial fertilizers, antibiotics and fuel than traditional livestock agriculture. If good practices are followed, grass-fed meat farming also restores pasture ecosystems and prevents soil erosion. Grass-fed meats are generally leaner and have higher levels of Omega-3 fatty acids and other nutrients, proponents say.The tricky thing about grass-fed claims that appear on beef and other meats is that even cattle that are fattened on grain in feedlots start out the first year eating grass. Some producers would still attach the grass-fed claim.The USDA's Agricultural Marketing Services came out with a new voluntary standard for grass-fed last fall that requires meats labeled grass-fed to have only grass and forage diet through its lifetime, with the exception of milk consumed before the animals are weaned. It also calls for animals to have pasture access during the growing season. Products that carry the "USDA Process Verified" shield along with the "U.S. Grassfed" claim have been inspected and verified to meet these federal standards.Pasture-raised, pastured: This is a general term used for meats, eggs and dairy products from animals that are raised entirely or in part on pasture. To really know what pasture-raised means, you must ask the producer.No hormones: If you see terms like these on pork or poultry products, don't give the producer any special kudos, as the USDA already forbids added hormones in pork and poultry production. That is not the case with beef and dairy, where hormones can be administered. Organic and Biodynamic certifications already ensure no added hormones.ANIMAL WELFARECertified Humane Raised and Handled: Meats, poultry, dairy products and eggs that earn this certification have been inspected and verified to ensure that animals are treated in a humane manner from birth to slaughter.Free-range, free-roaming, cage-free: Free-range and free-roaming are extremely vague terms applied mostly to eggs and poultry (but sometimes also to meats) that have little meaning until you ask the producer. According to the USDA, free-range chickens must have access to the outdoors, but the agency does not say how much. It could be the birds are raised mostly on pasture, or it could be the barn door is left open for 10 minutes a day. The USDA definition does not apply to eggs.Certified Vegan: This certified logo, overseen by the Vegan Awareness Foundation (also known as Vegan Action), is seen on a variety of processed foods as well as personal hygiene and household cleaning products. Qualified products do not include animal ingredients or byproducts and have not been tested on animals. The program does not test or monitor manufacturers, but it requires written statements about their practices.All vegan, 100 percent vegan, vegan: These are general terms that imply the product was not derived from animals and, perhaps, did not include animal testing, but there is no standard definition.KMILTNER@Democratan dChronicle. com Peter vvSend instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger . Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) 6. Re: Vegan delights hit Croydon's Surrey Street Market Posted by: "Peter VV" swpgh01 bty406720 Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:48 pm (PDT) Surrey Street Market is now home to its first vegan food stall, with owner Penelope Harrison baking all the food from her own kitchen.The former charity worker quit her job when she decided she was stuck in a rut, and set up her own stall after wowing her family with her vegan bread and cakes.In a real labour of love, Miss Harrison singularly cooks all of her 14 different products at her kitchen in Canal Walk, Croydon.She said: "My typical day begins at 5.30am, and my stall's open from 9am to 4pm."When I get home, I like to replenish my stock, so I end up cooking until about 11pm."It's a very long day, but I don't mind, because I really like what I do. It doesn't feel like work."The 37-year-old swapped vegetarianism for a vegan diet seven years ago, for health reasons.She said: "I wanted to cut down on cholesterol, and cut out animal products."But the supermarkets have lots of processed stuff, and I wanted to make my own and have it all natural."An experienced cook Miss Harrison is yet to have any culinary disasters.She said: "I haven't had any big problems, I've always been a keen cook, and I'm self-taught."My favourites are the vegan cakes and scones, but one of the best sellers are my vegan pasties."I'm open to suggestions, and some people are asking for flapjacks, so I might start cooking them too."Miss Harrison has only been in business since July 28.She said: "When I opened I wasn't really nervous because I'm very entrepreneurial, and I think you have to give these things a go."Already attracting attention from the public, the chef has been told she has the market's first vegan-only stall.She said: "The other market vendors say they've never seen this sort of thing before in Surrey Street."I want to last a long time, because I'm the only person doing this sort of thing."Ideally one day I'd like to get a shop and bake on the premises, but this is good for now."2 comments. Last at: 12-Aug-2008 13:14 * 'A little bit of everything' as the great Enzo Ferrari said and you cant go wrong. Mr.Angry, Purley commented on 12-Aug-2008 13:14 * this is great news. i hope that Penelope's efforts increase people's interest in a more varied diet even if they are not vegetarian or vegan themselves. all the best to her! ceiri, croydon commented on 12-Aug-2008 11:26 Peter vv Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger . Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) 7a. Re: How to have healthy hash browns Posted by: "Peter VV" swpgh01 bty406720 Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:57 pm (PDT) I wouldnt know a hash brown if one fell out of my pants, but here you go :http://www.unlvrebe lyell.com/ article.php? ID=12218These hash browns complement any breakfast feast. The warm taste of cumin and kick of paprika even make it the perfect side dish turned main course. Contrary to popular carbo-phobic belief, potatoes are very healthy – one potato contains around 110 calories and nearly half of the USDA's recommended for vitamin C. If you want a little more for breakfast, serve these with blueberry pancakes and savor a delicious breakfast in bed before the end the summer.Ingredients1 Large Russet potato2 tablespoons canola or vegetable oil (may need more during cooking)Half of a large red onion1 ½ tablespoons of garlic1 ½ teaspoons pepper and sea salt (season to taste)1 teaspoon of cumin½ teaspoon of dry basilPinch of paprikaMethod1. Before starting, make sure you have all your ingredients ready. You will need a large cutting board, a grater and a large skillet or saucepan. Start by cutting the potato, and put the onion in the freezer for no more than 10 minutes. This will make it easier to cut and it greatly reduces the shedding of tears.2. Cut the potato in half lengthwise. Cut one half into half-inch cubes. Shred the other half with the grater on top of the cutting board. Alternating between the skin and flesh side makes this easier.3. Set the potato aside, take the onion out of the freezer and put your pan on medium heat. Cut the onion into one-inch pieces.4. Cook the onion in oil for about eight minutes. When the onions start to turn translucent, add the garlic. Cook the onions and garlic for two to three minutes. Put in the potato and slightly increase the heat. You may need to add more oil here as well. Add all the spices and seasonings and stir well.5. Cook for 10 minutes with the lid on stirring every few minutes. Take the lid off and cook for another 10 minutes. If you want the hash browns to be crispier, add a little oil and turn up the heat to medium high. Be sure to keep a careful watch though as the onions can burn easily. Peter vvSend instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger . Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (5) 7b. Re: How to have healthy hash browns Posted by: "fraggle" EBbrewpunx ebbrewpunx Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:12 pm (PDT) body{font-family:Geneva,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;background- color:#ffffff;color: black;} shredded potaoes pan fried....Peter VVAug 12, 2008 1:57 PM@gro ups.comRe: How to have healthy hash brownsI wouldnt know a hash brown if one fell out of my pants, but hereyou go : http://www.unlvrebe lyell.com/ article.php? ID=12218<http://www.unlvrebe lyell.com/ article.php? ID=12218>These hash browns complement any breakfast feast. The warm tasteof cumin and kick of paprika even make it the perfect side dishturned main course. Contrary to popular carbo-phobic belief,potatoes are very healthy – one potato contains around 110calories and nearly half of the USDA's recommended for vitamin C.If you want a little more for breakfast, serve these withblueberry pancakes and savor a delicious breakfast in bed beforethe end the summer.Ingredients1 Large Russet potato2 tablespoons canola or vegetable oil (may need more duringcooking)Half of a large red onion1 ½ tablespoons of garlic1 ½ teaspoons pepper and sea salt (season to taste)1 teaspoon of cumin½ teaspoon of dry basilPinch of paprikaMethod1. Before starting, make sure you have all your ingredientsready. You will need a large cutting board, a grater and a largeskillet or saucepan. Start by cutting the potato, and put theonion in the freezer for no more than 10 minutes. This will makeit easier to cut and it greatly reduces the shedding of tears.2. Cut the potato in half lengthwise. Cut one half into half-inchcubes. Shred the other half with the grater on top of the cuttingboard. Alternating between the skin and flesh side makes thiseasier.3. Set the potato aside, take the onion out of the freezer andput your pan on medium heat. Cut the onion into one-inch pieces.4. Cook the onion in oil for about eight minutes. When the onionsstart to turn translucent, add the garlic. Cook the onions andgarlic for two to three minutes. Put in the potato and slightlyincrease the heat. You may need to add more oil here as well. Addall the spices and seasonings and stir well.5. Cook for 10 minutes with the lid on stirring every fewminutes. Take the lid off and cook for another 10 minutes. If youwant the hash browns to be crispier, add a little oil and turn upthe heat to medium high. Be sure to keep a careful watch thoughas the onions can burn easily.<http://profile. myspace.com/ index.cfm? fuseaction= user.viewprofile \ & friendid=123544694> Peter vvSend instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger .With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speechcensured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied,chains us all irrevocably. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (5) 7c. Re: How to have healthy hash browns Posted by: "Peter VV" swpgh01 bty406720 Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:23 pm (PDT) bit like bubble and squeek then without the squeek...... ......... ....there , thats confused you back! Peter vvfraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 August, 2008 10:12:40 PMRe: How to have healthy hash brownsshredded potaoes pan fried.... Peter VV Aug 12, 2008 1:57 PM @gro ups.com Re: How to have healthy hash browns I wouldnt know a hash brown if one fell out of my pants, but here you go : http://www.unlvrebe lyell.com/ article.php? ID=12218These hash browns complement any breakfast feast. The warm taste of cumin and kick of paprika even make it the perfect side dish turned main course. Contrary to popular carbo-phobic belief, potatoes are very healthy – one potato contains around 110 calories and nearly half of the USDA's recommended for vitamin C. If you want a little more for breakfast, serve these with blueberry pancakes and savor a delicious breakfast in bed before the end the summer.Ingredients1 Large Russet potato2 tablespoons canola or vegetable oil (may need more during cooking)Half of a large red onion1 ½ tablespoons of garlic1 ½ teaspoons pepper and sea salt (season to taste)1 teaspoon of cumin½ teaspoon of dry basilPinch of paprikaMethod1. Before starting, make sure you have all your ingredients ready. You will need a large cutting board, a grater and a large skillet or saucepan. Start by cutting the potato, and put the onion in the freezer for no more than 10 minutes. This will make it easier to cut and it greatly reduces the shedding of tears.2. Cut the potato in half lengthwise. Cut one half into half-inch cubes. Shred the other half with the grater on top of the cutting board. Alternating between the skin and flesh side makes this easier.3. Set the potato aside, take the onion out of the freezer and put your pan on medium heat. Cut the onion into one-inch pieces.4. Cook the onion in oil for about eight minutes. When the onions start to turn translucent, add the garlic. Cook the onions and garlic for two to three minutes. Put in the potato and slightly increase the heat. You may need to add more oil here as well. Add all the spices and seasonings and stir well.5. Cook for 10 minutes with the lid on stirring every few minutes. Take the lid off and cook for another 10 minutes. If you want the hash browns to be crispier, add a little oil and turn up the heat to medium high. Be sure to keep a careful watch though as the onions can burn easily. Peter vvSend instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger . With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger . Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (5) 7d. Re: How to have healthy hash browns Posted by: "fraggle" EBbrewpunx ebbrewpunx Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:28 pm (PDT) body{font-family:Geneva,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;background- color:#ffffff;color: black;}sorta..i guess....except hash browns are generally breakfast foodPeter VVAug 12, 2008 2:23 PM@gro ups.comRe: How to have healthy hash brownsbit like bubble and squeek then without thesqueek...... ......... ....there , thats confused you back!<http://profile. myspace.com/ index.cfm? fuseaction= user.viewprofile \ & friendid=123544694> Peter vvfraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 August, 2008 10:12:40 PMRe: How to have healthy hash brownsshredded potaoes pan fried....Peter VVAug 12, 2008 1:57 PM@gro ups.comRe: How to have healthy hash brownsI wouldnt know a hash brown if one fell out of my pants, but hereyou go : http://www.unlvrebe lyell.com/ article.php? ID=12218<http://www.unlvrebe lyell.com/ article.php? ID=12218>These hash browns complement any breakfast feast. The warm tasteof cumin and kick of paprika even make it the perfect side dishturned main course. Contrary to popular carbo-phobic belief,potatoes are very healthy – one potato contains around 110calories and nearly half of the USDA's recommended for vitamin C.If you want a little more for breakfast, serve these withblueberry pancakes and savor a delicious breakfast in bed beforethe end the summer.Ingredients1 Large Russet potato2 tablespoons canola or vegetable oil (may need more duringcooking)Half of a large red onion1 ½ tablespoons of garlic1 ½ teaspoons pepper and sea salt (season to taste)1 teaspoon of cumin½ teaspoon of dry basilPinch of paprikaMethod1. Before starting, make sure you have all your ingredientsready. You will need a large cutting board, a grater and a largeskillet or saucepan. Start by cutting the potato, and put theonion in the freezer for no more than 10 minutes. This will makeit easier to cut and it greatly reduces the shedding of tears.2. Cut the potato in half lengthwise. Cut one half into half-inchcubes. Shred the other half with the grater on top of the cuttingboard. Alternating between the skin and flesh side makes thiseasier.3. Set the potato aside, take the onion out of the freezer andput your pan on medium heat. Cut the onion into one-inch pieces.4. Cook the onion in oil for about eight minutes. When the onionsstart to turn translucent, add the garlic. Cook the onions andgarlic for two to three minutes. Put in the potato and slightlyincrease the heat. You may need to add more oil here as well. Addall the spices and seasonings and stir well.5. Cook for 10 minutes with the lid on stirring every fewminutes. Take the lid off and cook for another 10 minutes. If youwant the hash browns to be crispier, add a little oil and turn upthe heat to medium high. Be sure to keep a careful watch thoughas the onions can burn easily.<http://profile. myspace.com/ index.cfm? fuseaction= user.viewprofile \ & friendid=123544694> Peter vvSend instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speechcensured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied,chains us all irrevocably.Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger .With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speechcensured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied,chains us all irrevocably. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (5) 7e. Re: How to have healthy hash browns Posted by: "Peter VV" swpgh01 bty406720 Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:31 pm (PDT) I know its traditional to have a fry up for breakfast, but I have never had one in my life and dont intend to start now. I just couldnt face anything that substantial first thing.I have woken up in my younger days on the floor of a mates house to eat cold chinese leftover takeaway from the night before, but I guess we`ve all done that right? Peter vvfraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 August, 2008 10:27:59 PMRe: How to have healthy hash brownssorta..i guess....except hash browns are generally breakfast food Peter VV Aug 12, 2008 2:23 PM To: @gro ups.com Re: How to have healthy hash browns bit like bubble and squeek then without the squeek...... ......... ....there , thats confused you back! Peter vvfraggle <EBbrewpunx@ earthlin k.net>@gro ups.comTuesday, 12 August, 2008 10:12:40 PMRe: How to have healthy hash brownsshredded potaoes pan fried.... Peter VV Aug 12, 2008 1:57 PM @gro ups.com Re: How to have healthy hash browns I wouldnt know a hash brown if one fell out of my pants, but here you go : http://www.unlvrebe lyell.com/ article.php? ID=12218These hash browns complement any breakfast feast. The warm taste of cumin and kick of paprika even make it the perfect side dish turned main course. Contrary to popular carbo-phobic belief, potatoes are very healthy – one potato contains around 110 calories and nearly half of the USDA's recommended for vitamin C. If you want a little more for breakfast, serve these with blueberry pancakes and savor a delicious breakfast in bed before the end the summer.Ingredients1 Large Russet potato2 tablespoons canola or vegetable oil (may need more during cooking)Half of a large red onion1 ½ tablespoons of garlic1 ½ teaspoons pepper and sea salt (season to taste)1 teaspoon of cumin½ teaspoon of dry basilPinch of paprikaMethod1. Before starting, make sure you have all your ingredients ready. You will need a large cutting board, a grater and a large skillet or saucepan. Start by cutting the potato, and put the onion in the freezer for no more than 10 minutes. This will make it easier to cut and it greatly reduces the shedding of tears.2. Cut the potato in half lengthwise. Cut one half into half-inch cubes. Shred the other half with the grater on top of the cutting board. Alternating between the skin and flesh side makes this easier.3. Set the potato aside, take the onion out of the freezer and put your pan on medium heat. Cut the onion into one-inch pieces.4. Cook the onion in oil for about eight minutes. When the onions start to turn translucent, add the garlic. Cook the onions and garlic for two to three minutes. Put in the potato and slightly increase the heat. You may need to add more oil here as well. Add all the spices and seasonings and stir well.5. Cook for 10 minutes with the lid on stirring every few minutes. Take the lid off and cook for another 10 minutes. If you want the hash browns to be crispier, add a little oil and turn up the heat to medium high. Be sure to keep a careful watch though as the onions can burn easily. Peter vvSend instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger . With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger . With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger . Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (5) 8.1. Re: Olympics Posted by: "heartwerk" jo.heartwork heartwerk Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:40 pm (PDT) We are looking forward to it. Have been to Beaumaris Castle before - very nice - will probably re-visit. Also want to see the Museum of Childhood, which could be interesting.There are so many pretty places - including Fairy Glen. We visited Portmeirion once. but didn't have enough time to really look round.I'll report back on the B & B.Jo@gro ups.com, Peter VV <swpgh01 > wrote:>> Nice fortress castle there, also one on the island - Beaumaris not bad.Incidentally , Anglesy still has one of the few pockets of native red squirells in Britain.> You could go to Llanberis or Betws y Coed for scenery, or even Portmeirion if you remember the village in The Prisoner.... ....> Let me know what the B & B is like?> >  > Peter vv> > > > > jo.heartwork <jo.heartwork@ ...>> @gro ups.com> Monday, 11 August, 2008 10:11:45 PM> Re: Olympics> > >  > It will be most enjoyable, and the accent will be fine. We're staying at a vegetarian B & B in Penisarwaun near Caernarfon.>  > Jo>  >  > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Monday, August 11, 2008 7:52 AM> Re: Olympics> > My sympathies.. ....he,he. Hope the accent doesnt annoy you too much! wherabouts? > >  > Peter vv> > > > ----- Original Message ----> jo.heartwork <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>> @gro ups.com> Sunday, 10 August, 2008 10:54:04 PM> Re: Olympics> > >  > :-)>  > We're coming to North Wales for a couple of days soon.>  > Jo>  > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Sunday, August 10, 2008 9:01 PM> Re: Olympics> > She obviously has good taste!>  > Peter vv> > > > > jo.heartwork <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>> @gro ups.com> Sunday, 10 August, 2008 8:31:17 PM> Re: Olympics> > >  > I suppose it could have mentioned the English girl who lives in Wales :-)>  > Jo>  > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Sunday, August 10, 2008 7:50 PM> Re: Olympics> > He,he.> Shame China wouldnt acknowledge Wales, only GB.> >  > Peter vv> > > > > jo.heartwork <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>> @gro ups.com> Sunday, 10 August, 2008 7:48:48 PM> Re: Olympics> > >  > I noticed she lived in south Wales - but doesn't she have a beautiful south English accent ! I think possibly she is an English migrant.>  > Whatever - she did really well.>  > Jo>  > - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com > Sunday, August 10, 2008 7:01 PM> Re: Olympics> > Yay,> Wales has won its fist olympic Gold Medal....... ......... ......>  > Peter vv> > > > > Peter Kebbell <metalscarab@ gmail.com>> @gro ups.com> Sunday, 27 July, 2008 10:40:08 PM> Re: help please Jo & Peter> > > Hi Peter> > Been to Avebury loads of times... depends on what sort of things you like....> > It's basically a smallish village in the middle of a very large stone circle. There's unfortunately a road that goes through the middle of the stone circle, so you have to cross over a couple of times to see the whole site. In one part there's a sort of central circle with slightly smaller stones, the outer stones are pretty huge (similar sort of size to Stonehenge, but much less regular in shape). Around the whole site is a ditch & small hill, which you can walk around the top of, and a few nice little treed areas. There's also "the avenue" which is an avenue (surprisingly) of stones which leads away from (or towards, depending on where you start!) the circle.> > In the village, there's the inevitable tourist gift shop, filled with crystals, sheil-na-gigs, new-agey magazines, postcards, etc. and a pub which I wouldn't recommend eating in unless you enjoy getting your food served either half cooked, or not served at all! I have no idea what their drinks are like, as I've never been back in there after twice being disappointed by their food. There *is*, however, a wonderful little veggie cafe called "Stones" (I think... although it might be "The Circle" now), which normally has a few vegan options.> > Oh, and if you're lucky, there are sometimes some sheep inside the circle! :-)> > BB> Peter> > > > 2008/7/27 Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com>> > I am going to Center Parcs in Wiltshire for a week tomorrow, and am keen ( wife & kidspermitting ) to go to Avebury. Have you ever been? whats it like?> > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Not happy with your email address? > Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at > ____________ _________ _________ __> Not happy with your email address? > Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at > ____________ _________ _________ __> Not happy with your email address? > Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at > ____________ _________ _________ __> Not happy with your email address? > Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger .> Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (32) 8.2. Re: Olympics Posted by: "heartwerk" jo.heartwork heartwerk Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:55 pm (PDT) It is strange. Mainly the English flag is flown for football matches. Maybe not many football fans watch the Olympics! Just a guess. I notice the commentators, although mentioning when someone is English, Scottish or Welsh, always say 'Great Britain'.I was annoyed about the opening ceremony, when the little girl (7 years old) apparently singing the solo song, wasn't actually the person who sang it. The lovely voice belongs to a seven year old girl deemed by the authorities to be 'not pretty enough'! That makes me mad.Jo@gro ups.com, "Peter" <metalscarab@ ...> wrote:>> I do find it amusing that this particular bit of news hasn't caused a stir at all in England - presumably no-one is too interested in not being allowed to fly the St George Cross....> > BB> Peter> - > jo.heartwork > @gro ups.com > Monday, August 11, 2008 10:16 PM> Re: Olympics> > >  > Well, I suppose if there are to be rules, that is the way it should be. I suspect the ahtletes get some financial aid from the British or English.> > Maybe we English should be more separatist - what do you reckon?> > BB> Jo> > > - > Peter > @gro ups.com > Monday, August 11, 2008 8:29 AM> Re: Olympics> > >  > > Hi Jo> > > In the Olympics we are Great Britain.> > In Scotland, there has been quite some upset caused by the fact that the Chinese Olympic committee has banned the waving of all flags which are not the national flags of countries with an olympic committee... . as such, Scottish and Welsh national flags have been banned from the stadiums!!!!> > BB> Peter> Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (32) 9a. Re: Washing Posted by: "heartwerk" jo.heartwork heartwerk Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:50 pm (PDT) Hi FaithIt's a word I use quite often. Peter (VV) often takes the mickey out of me using old-fashioned words!Jo@gro ups.com, "Faith" <tigerpainter@ ...> wrote:>> I love the word "daft." We should use that more on this side of the> Atlantic.> > faith> > > > @gro ups.com, "jo.heartwork" <jo.heartwork@ >> wrote:> >> > I don't use it now, so I won't bother to email them. Just seems> daft when you already have good washing up liquids to keep on changing> them,especially if you are claiming to be eco friendly, etc.> > > > Jo> >> Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (21) 10a. Re: Eat ... anything local and wild Posted by: "heartwerk" jo.heartwork heartwerk Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:51 pm (PDT) Hi PeterThat is such a good one, and often true.BBJo@gro ups.com, "Peter" <metalscarab@ ...> wrote:>> Hi Faith> > > Human "logic" is completely beyond me.> > One of my favourite quotes from Doctor Who: "Logic merely enables you to be > wrong with confidence". ..> > BB> Peter> Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (14) 11a. Re: Club VEG puts Binghamton on the list Posted by: "heartwerk" jo.heartwork heartwerk Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:56 pm (PDT) Hi PeterDefinitely sounds like a place to avoid, if possible.Jo@gro ups.com, "Peter" <metalscarab@ ...> wrote:>> Re: Club VEG puts Binghamton on the listHi Yarrow> > When I went there, I was strongly advised not to mention my religious affiliations as they could put my life in danger!> > Oh, and the humidity!!!!> > BB> Peter> - > yarrow > @gro ups.com > Tuesday, August 12, 2008 12:25 AM> Re: Club VEG puts Binghamton on the list> > > What's wrong with North Carolina?> > > At 9:24 AM -0700 8/11/08, fraggle wrote:> hmmmmm> > i just had a freind move to burlington, well, next to it...> > but> > > > * Burlington, VT COLD> * Ithaca, NY COLD> * Corvallis, OR WET> * Springfield, MA NEXT TO CONNECTICUT, COLD> * Wenatchee, WA WET> * Charlottesville, VA IN VIRGINIA> * Boulder, CO GOOD BEER, NICE PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY, COLD> * Madison, WI COLD> * Binghamton, NY COLD> * Champaign-Urbana, IL MIDWEST, COLD> * Ann Arbor, MI UPPER MIDWEST, COLD> * San Diego, CA NEVER GO BACK...> * La Crosse, WI COLD> * Pittsfield, MA cOLD> * Eau Claire, WI COLD> * Durham, NC NORTH CAROLINA???? ???!!!> * Norwich-New London, CT CONNECTICUT> * Eugene, OR WET> * San Francisco, CA I'M ALREADY HERE> * Chico, CA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA A> * Harrisburg-Carlisle , PA RUST BELT, AND I DON'T DRINK IRON CITY> * Barnstable Town, MA DON'T KNOW IT, ASSUME COLD> * Utica-Rome, NY COLD> * Missoula, MT HI DAD, FREAKIN COLD> * Asheville, NC NORTH CAROLINA AGAIN?> > > > yarrow Aug 10, 2008 8:16 PM> @gro ups.com> Club VEG puts Binghamton on the list> > Country Home magazine, in conjunction with Sperling's BestPlaces,> reveals that Burlington, Vermont is the 2007 Best Green Place to live> in America.> > Burlington is located on the eastern shore of Lake Champlain between> the Adirondack and Green Mountains in northwest Vermont and has a> population of 40,000. With programs like Burlington Eco Info Project,> the community of Burlington, including the residents, businesses and> government, values a green lifestyle and makes it a priority.> > "We are seeing a real interest, by both our readers and the> marketplace, in exploring a green lifestyle," said Editor-in-Chief> Carol Sheehan. "We wanted to find out who in America is actually> taking action, where they are, and what they are doing."> > Best Green Places> > * Burlington, VT> * Ithaca, NY> * Corvallis, OR> * Springfield, MA> * Wenatchee, WA> * Charlottesville, VA> * Boulder, CO> * Madison, WI> * Binghamton, NY> * Champaign-Urbana, IL> * Ann Arbor, MI> * San Diego, CA> * La Crosse, WI> * Pittsfield, MA> * Eau Claire, WI> * Durham, NC> * Norwich-New London, CT> * Eugene, OR> * San Francisco, CA> * Chico, CA> * Harrisburg-Carlisle , PA> * Barnstable Town, MA> * Utica-Rome, NY> * Missoula, MT> * Asheville, NC> > The Best Green Places study, which is based on data discovered by> Sperling's BestPlaces, examines 24 data metrics in 5 major categories> -- including air and watershed quality, mass transit usage, power> usage, farmers markets, organic producers, and number of> green-certified buildings -- to determine which metro areas are the> best places to live a green life. Sperling's BestPlaces ranked the 379> major metropolitan areas, as defined by the U.S. Census Bureau. Over> 80 percent of all U.S. residents live in these 379 metro areas.> > Data was collected from sources which include the Census Bureau, the> U.S. Green Building Council, Department of Transportation,> Environmental Protection Agency, U.S. Department of Agriculture, the> GreenPeople. org online directory.> > Among its unique green attributes, Burlington has developed a compost> facility that collects food scraps from restaurants, supermarkets,> institutions and food manufacturers, and the yard clippings and leaves> from local residents and landscapers. Once finished composting, local> farmers, gardeners and landscapers purchase this nutrient rich soil to> use.> > Over 16 percent of Ithaca residents (or 5,000 people) walk to work --> the highest percentage in the nation. Combine that with bike riders,> mass transit users and home office workers and Ithaca has the greenest> commuters.> > In Corvallis, over 15 percent residents, as well as the city> government, purchase renewable energy. Corvallis was the first city on> the West Coast to achieve the Green Power Community designation from> the U.S. EPA. The achievement was met after the Corvallis City Council> passed a resolution encouraging residents to switch to 'green power.'> > Springfield' s ReStore accepts donations home improvement materials and> sells them to the public at low prices in a convenient retail setting.> Inventory includes used and salvaged materials and surplus stock from> the building industry.> > Wentachee is dedicated to teaching young people about alternative> energy resources. Each year at the world's only Solar Drag Race, high> school and college students, build and race battery-less,> sunlight-propelled dragsters for a chance to win scholarships.> > The Charlottesville community puts a value on trees, parks,> greenspace, streams and biodiversity. In an effort to balance the> natural and built environment and practice sustainability,> Charlottesville encourages the use of green roofs, rainwater> harvesting, porous paving and rain gardens. These concepts are being> demonstrated by the city to encourage adoption in parks and public spaces.> > Boulder has the country's best organic food supply. The state's> largest farmers' market is in Boulder and runs from April to November> and is backed by Whole Foods and a network of co-ops and local producers.> > In Madison, the Eco-Fruit project, based at the University of> Wisconsin-Madison, has both policy and field components that enable> Wisconsin fruit growers to reduce pesticide use without sacrificing> fruit quality. In the Eco-Fruit project's first two years, growers> reduced pesticide risk by 58 percent and increased their reliance on> Integrated Pest Management strategies by 13 percent.> > Binghamton nonprofit organizations extensively promote healthy and> organic eating habits. One volunteer group, Club VEG reaches out to> educate the public, health care professionals, and health> organizations about the benefits of a plant-based diet.> > Renewable Energy Initiative at the University of Illinois at> Urbana-Champaign is working to meet the state's renewable portfolio> standard which requires that, by 2006, at least 2% of the electricity> sold to Illinois customers be generated from renewable resources. The> amount of electricity from renewable resources is required to increase> at least by 1% annually, reaching at least 8% in 2012 and 16% in 2020.> > > > > > With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.> Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (8) Recent Activity 11 New MembersVisit Your Group Real Food Group Share recipes and favorite meals. Biz Resources Y! Small Business Articles, tools, forms, and more. w/ John McEnroe Join the All-Bran Day 10 Club. Need to Reply? Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in the Daily Digest. Create New Topic | Visit Your Group on the Web Messages | Database | Polls To send an email to - Change settings via the Web ( ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Individual | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Terms of Use | Un Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2008 Report Share Posted August 14, 2008 not a coffee drinker, but, you don't need sugar for either of those drinks really Frappuccino is a recent connotation, a combination of frappe' and cappuccino iced coffee " milk " shake with syrups.... there are no added sugars, its all in the syrups that add the sweetness , Shelley <moondrop000 wrote: > > Does anyone here know how to make a vegan frappaccino or vegan mocha frappaccino with no sugar? > Â > Shelley H > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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