Vegan diet is not best for felines

[Guest guest]

By DR. PATTY KHULY

drkhuly

 

Q:I have a young, healthy male cat named Mink. He lives indoors and gets the best food, toys and veterinary care available. The problem is that I'm a vegan. I have a hard time knowing even the high-quality foods he's eaten all his life come from animals raised on inhumane factory farms. Recently I've been transitioning him to a commercial vegan feline diet but Mink hasn't been taking well to it. My vet thinks I'm crazy to try this, by the way.

A: I've had very little success converting cats to a vegetarian or vegan (no egg or milk protein) diet. Though commercially available vegan diets with special supplements now make this diet nutritionally viable (at least in the short-term), it's my impression that cats know best. Most won't eat it without serious coaxing.

Cats are obligate carnivores, as I'm sure you know. That means their bodies (specifically, their gastrointestinal tracts) are not ideally suited to digesting non-meat foods. The long-term effects of feeding felines diets that lack animal proteins have not been established.

On the other hand, I understand your predicament. I can see why buying standard cat foods with all their reliance on cheap meats might be in opposition to your moral agenda.

It's argued, however, that extending your own moral code to your cat in this way is akin to subjecting factory-farmed animals to our human values. After all, no cat would choose such an abnormal diet. Viewed in this light, it seems to me that accepting a meat-based diet for a feline could be considered consistent with a vegan's values.

Judging from your distaste for standard commercial feline food, perhaps you should look into one of many brands that employ humanely raised meats. These can be obtained from the same specialty outlets that probably also sell the vegan food you're buying.

So, do I think you're crazy? Not at all. But do I think a vegan diet is best for your cat? No on that score, too.

In fact, if you feel strongly enough about adhering to a vegan diet for your pets you might want to consider a rabbit or a goat. Both species make great pets and neither requires that you compromise your vegan values.

 

Dr. Patty Khuly practices in South Miami and blogs at www.dolittler.com. Send questions to drkhuly (AT) dolittler (DOT) com, or Dr. Dolittler, Tropical Life, The Miami Herald, 1 Herald Plaza, Miami, FL 33132

 

Peter vv,___

[Guest guest]

I find it very hard to believe that 'the long term effects of feeding

felines non-meat foods has not yet been established'.

 

For goodness sake - cats live what? about 20 years. It must have

been easy enough to prove that in 20 years.

 

Jo

 

, Peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

>

> By DR. PATTY KHULY

> drkhuly

> Q:I have a young, healthy male cat named Mink. He lives indoors and

gets the best food, toys and veterinary care available. The problem

is that I'm a vegan. I have a hard time knowing even the high-quality

foods he's eaten all his life come from animals raised on inhumane

factory farms. Recently I've been transitioning him to a commercial

vegan feline diet but Mink hasn't been taking well to it. My vet

thinks I'm crazy to try this, by the way.

> A: I've had very little success converting cats to a vegetarian or

vegan (no egg or milk protein) diet. Though commercially available

vegan diets with special supplements now make this diet nutritionally

viable (at least in the short-term), it's my impression that cats

know best. Most won't eat it without serious coaxing.

> Cats are obligate carnivores, as I'm sure you know. That means

their bodies (specifically, their gastrointestinal tracts) are not

ideally suited to digesting non-meat foods. The long-term effects of

feeding felines diets that lack animal proteins have not been

established.

> On the other hand, I understand your predicament. I can see why

buying standard cat foods with all their reliance on cheap meats

might be in opposition to your moral agenda.

> It's argued, however, that extending your own moral code to your

cat in this way is akin to subjecting factory-farmed animals to our

human values. After all, no cat would choose such an abnormal diet.

Viewed in this light, it seems to me that accepting a meat-based diet

for a feline could be considered consistent with a vegan's values.

> Judging from your distaste for standard commercial feline food,

perhaps you should look into one of many brands that employ humanely

raised meats. These can be obtained from the same specialty outlets

that probably also sell the vegan food you're buying.

> So, do I think you're crazy? Not at all. But do I think a vegan

diet is best for your cat? No on that score, too.

> In fact, if you feel strongly enough about adhering to a vegan diet

for your pets you might want to consider a rabbit or a goat. Both

species make great pets and neither requires that you compromise your

vegan values.

> Dr. Patty Khuly practices in South Miami and blogs at

www.dolittler.com. Send questions to drkhuly, or Dr. Dolittler,

Tropical Life, The Miami Herald, 1 Herald Plaza, Miami, FL 33132

>  

> Peter vv,___

>

[Guest guest]

Asking a cat to become vegetarian is a form of animal cruelty; their bodies are not made to eat veggies. I liked the articles suggestion; if you feel that strongly about it; get a goat!

 

As a vegetarian, I would want to avoid cat food that is made from irresponsible slaughterhouses, but recognize how hard this could be. I'm sure there are more expensive brands of food available made from free-range chicken.

 

Of course, there is also the option of letting the cat out of the house...the cat will catch at least some of its food in the form of free-range bird or mouse!

 

 

Elaine

“Do not be who you thought you were; be who you wish you were.” — from Neale Walsch’s book Friendship with God

[Guest guest]

I disagree. You choose what to feed the cat- the cat will decide if it wants to kill birds or mice to eat.

 

Jo

 

 

-

Elaine Moses

Monday, November 10, 2008 1:10 PM

Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

Asking a cat to become vegetarian is a form of animal cruelty; their bodies are not made to eat veggies. I liked the articles suggestion; if you feel that strongly about it; get a goat!As a vegetarian, I would want to avoid cat food that is made from irresponsible slaughterhouses, but recognize how hard this could be. I'm sure there are more expensive brands of food available made from free-range chicken.Of course, there is also the option of letting the cat out of the house...the cat will catch at least some of its food in the form of free-range bird or mouse!Elaine“Do not be who you thought you were; be who you wish you were.” — from Neale Walsch’s book Friendship with God

[Guest guest]

i've been trying to hold comments back...but..have t o say one thing

letting domesticated cats outside to "feed" on the local wildlife is pretty hideous and horrible.

"jo.heartwork" Nov 10, 2008 4:06 PM Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

 

 

I disagree. You choose what to feed the cat- the cat will decide if it wants to kill birds or mice to eat.

 

Jo

 

 

-

Elaine Moses

Monday, November 10, 2008 1:10 PM

Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

Asking a cat to become vegetarian is a form of animal cruelty; their bodies are not made to eat veggies. I liked the articles suggestion; if you feel that strongly about it; get a goat!As a vegetarian, I would want to avoid cat food that is made from irresponsible slaughterhouses, but recognize how hard this could be. I'm sure there are more expensive brands of food available made from free-range chicken.Of course, there is also the option of letting the cat out of the house...the cat will catch at least some of its food in the form of free-range bird or mouse!Elaine“Do not be who you thought you were; be who you wish you were.” — from Neale Walsch’s book Friendship with God

 

 

 

 

 

 

For in a Republic, who is “the country� Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Mark Twain

[Guest guest]

I've known cats whose favorite foods were vegetables or fruits.

 

I visited a cat whose favorite food was alfalfa sprouts and would run

to eat them, purring loudly.

 

Tabby, the cat who lived with me for her last (of 19 or so) years,

was not a lap cat but would jump onto my lap when I offered her dried

nori (seaweed).

 

She also liked canteloupe and corn on the cob. I wouldn't have

thought to offer her canteloupe, but I read about someone else who

called it " cataloupe " because it was such a kitty favorite.

[Guest guest]

My husband and I have 4 dogs and if I had my choice they would all be

vegan (I'm slowly working on it), but I have read where cats are bred

to be carnivores and that a vegan diet was not good for the system.

 

I don't have cats so I don't know, but that is one difference between

dogs and cats being vegan that I have read.

 

, yarrow wrote:

>

> I've known cats whose favorite foods were vegetables or fruits.

>

> I visited a cat whose favorite food was alfalfa sprouts and would run

> to eat them, purring loudly.

>

> Tabby, the cat who lived with me for her last (of 19 or so) years,

> was not a lap cat but would jump onto my lap when I offered her dried

> nori (seaweed).

>

> She also liked canteloupe and corn on the cob. I wouldn't have

> thought to offer her canteloupe, but I read about someone else who

> called it " cataloupe " because it was such a kitty favorite.

>

[Guest guest]

LOL - you know my thoughts on it Fraggle. I agree it is hideous, and

I am sick of my neighbour who has five cats that live outside and

kill so many birds.

 

Jo

 

Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

i've been trying to hold comments back...but..have t o say one thing

 

letting domesticated cats outside to " feed " on the local wildlife is

pretty hideous and horrible.

 

 

 

 

 

" jo.heartwork "

Nov 10, 2008 4:06 PM

 

Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

 

I disagree. You choose what to feed the cat- the cat will decide if

it wants to kill birds or mice to eat.

 

Jo

[Guest guest]

The vegan cat foods are carefuly designed to contain all the

nutrients (including taurine) that cats require.

 

Jo

 

, " dadiemert " <dadiemert wrote:

>

> My husband and I have 4 dogs and if I had my choice they would all

be

> vegan (I'm slowly working on it), but I have read where cats are

bred

> to be carnivores and that a vegan diet was not good for the system.

>

> I don't have cats so I don't know, but that is one difference

between

> dogs and cats being vegan that I have read.

>

> , yarrow@ wrote:

> >

> > I've known cats whose favorite foods were vegetables or fruits.

> >

> > I visited a cat whose favorite food was alfalfa sprouts and would

run

> > to eat them, purring loudly.

> >

> > Tabby, the cat who lived with me for her last (of 19 or so)

years,

> > was not a lap cat but would jump onto my lap when I offered her

dried

> > nori (seaweed).

> >

> > She also liked canteloupe and corn on the cob. I wouldn't have

> > thought to offer her canteloupe, but I read about someone else

who

> > called it " cataloupe " because it was such a kitty favorite.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You think locking a cat up inside is ok? you think that its evolutionary instinct is wrong?

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

 

fraggle <EBbrewpunx Sent: Wednesday, 12 November, 2008 1:17:11 AMRe: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

i've been trying to hold comments back...but.. have t o say one thing

letting domesticated cats outside to "feed" on the local wildlife is pretty hideous and horrible.

"jo.heartwork" Nov 10, 2008 4:06 PM @gro ups.com Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

 

 

I disagree. You choose what to feed the cat- the cat will decide if it wants to kill birds or mice to eat.

 

Jo

 

 

-

Elaine Moses

@gro ups.com

Monday, November 10, 2008 1:10 PM

Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

Asking a cat to become vegetarian is a form of animal cruelty; their bodies are not made to eat veggies. I liked the articles suggestion; if you feel that strongly about it; get a goat!As a vegetarian, I would want to avoid cat food that is made from irresponsible slaughterhouses, but recognize how hard this could be. I'm sure there are more expensive brands of food available made from free-range chicken.Of course, there is also the option of letting the cat out of the house...the cat will catch at least some of its food in the form of free-range bird or mouse!ElaineDo not be who you thought you were; be who you wish you were. from Neale Walschs book Friendship with God

 

For in a Republic, who is “the country� Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them. Mark Twain

[Guest guest]

Honestly...if you live in an urban area it'd be crueler to let them outside where they can catch diseases, get into fights with animals, or hit by cars.

 

Can't tell you how many times I've gotten choked up upon seeing a dead cat in the road because it was left to wander a busy street at night.

 

I keep my cats indoors, and I don't force my eating habits on them. They live a warm, comfy home with a ton of toys and haven't stopped purring since they've gotten here.

On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

 

 

 

 

You think locking a cat up inside is ok? you think that its evolutionary instinct is wrong?

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

 

fraggle <EBbrewpunx

Wednesday, 12 November, 2008 1:17:11 AMRe: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

i've been trying to hold comments back...but.. have t o say one thing

letting domesticated cats outside to " feed " on the local wildlife is pretty hideous and horrible.

" jo.heartwork " Nov 10, 2008 4:06 PM @gro ups.com

Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

 

 

I disagree. You choose what to feed the cat- the cat will decide if it wants to kill birds or mice to eat.

 

Jo

 

 

-

Elaine Moses

@gro ups.com

Monday, November 10, 2008 1:10 PM

Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

Asking a cat to become vegetarian is a form of animal cruelty; their bodies are not made to eat veggies. I liked the articles suggestion; if you feel that strongly about it; get a goat!As a vegetarian, I would want to avoid cat food that is made from irresponsible slaughterhouses, but recognize how hard this could be. I'm sure there are more expensive brands of food available made from free-range chicken.

Of course, there is also the option of letting the cat out of the house...the cat will catch at least some of its food in the form of free-range bird or mouse!ElaineDo not be who you thought you were; be who you wish you were. from Neale Walschs book Friendship with God

 

 

For in a Republic, who is "the country"? Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Mark Twain

-- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com

~Boston_GothicBoston_MysticBoston-Pagans

[Guest guest]

you think allowing hundreds of cats per square mile to roam outside and decimate what is left of local wildlife is ok?

evolution doesn't mean squat,, since WE created the domestic cat.

where in "the wild" could you show me where so many preadators live in such close proximity then?

Peter VV Nov 12, 2008 12:00 PM Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

 

 

 

 

You think locking a cat up inside is ok? you think that its evolutionary instinct is wrong?

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

 

fraggle <EBbrewpunx (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> Sent: Wednesday, 12 November, 2008 1:17:11 AMRe: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

i've been trying to hold comments back...but.. have t o say one thing

letting domesticated cats outside to "feed" on the local wildlife is pretty hideous and horrible.

"jo.heartwork" Nov 10, 2008 4:06 PM @gro ups.com Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

 

 

I disagree. You choose what to feed the cat- the cat will decide if it wants to kill birds or mice to eat.

 

Jo

 

 

-

Elaine Moses

@gro ups.com

Monday, November 10, 2008 1:10 PM

Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

Asking a cat to become vegetarian is a form of animal cruelty; their bodies are not made to eat veggies. I liked the articles suggestion; if you feel that strongly about it; get a goat!As a vegetarian, I would want to avoid cat food that is made from irresponsible slaughterhouses, but recognize how hard this could be. I'm sure there are more expensive brands of food available made from free-range chicken.Of course, there is also the option of letting the cat out of the house...the cat will catch at least some of its food in the form of free-range bird or mouse!ElaineDo not be who you thought you were; be who you wish you were. from Neale Walschs book Friendship with God

 

For in a Republic, who is “the country� Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them. Mark Twain

 

 

 

 

 

 

For in a Republic, who is “the country� Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Mark Twain

[Guest guest]

Good come back!

However, all my cats were feral, I give them a roof when they choose to come in, I wont imprison them. I dont think its right. I do feed them, so that they dont need ( and probably couldnt catch a cold , let alone birds ) to predate.They have never brought a bird or rat or anything inside in 18 years.

I disagree that evolution doesnt mean anything, as they are programmed to be predators, its just that humans have chosen to interfere. Evolutionary programming cannot be erased that easily, their instincts take over, just move a piece of string or a lace in front of a cat, they will pounce on it.

I dont understand your last question?

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

 

fraggle <EBbrewpunx Sent: Wednesday, 12 November, 2008 8:08:41 PMRe: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

you think allowing hundreds of cats per square mile to roam outside and decimate what is left of local wildlife is ok?

evolution doesn't mean squat,, since WE created the domestic cat.

where in "the wild" could you show me where so many preadators live in such close proximity then?

Peter VV Nov 12, 2008 12:00 PM @gro ups.com Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

 

 

 

 

You think locking a cat up inside is ok? you think that its evolutionary instinct is wrong?

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

 

fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>@gro ups.comWednesday, 12 November, 2008 1:17:11 AMRe: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

i've been trying to hold comments back...but.. have t o say one thing

letting domesticated cats outside to "feed" on the local wildlife is pretty hideous and horrible.

"jo.heartwork" Nov 10, 2008 4:06 PM @gro ups.com Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

 

 

I disagree. You choose what to feed the cat- the cat will decide if it wants to kill birds or mice to eat.

 

Jo

 

 

-

Elaine Moses

@gro ups.com

Monday, November 10, 2008 1:10 PM

Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

Asking a cat to become vegetarian is a form of animal cruelty; their bodies are not made to eat veggies. I liked the articles suggestion; if you feel that strongly about it; get a goat!As a vegetarian, I would want to avoid cat food that is made from irresponsible slaughterhouses, but recognize how hard this could be. I'm sure there are more expensive brands of food available made from free-range chicken.Of course, there is also the option of letting the cat out of the house...the cat will catch at least some of its food in the form of free-range bird or mouse!ElaineDo not be who you thought you were; be who you wish you were. from Neale Walschs book Friendship with God

For in a Republic, who is “the country� Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them. Mark Twain

 

For in a Republic, who is “the country� Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them. Mark Twain

[Guest guest]

the last point goes with the first. cats exist in un-natural numbers due to humans. we breed the heck out of em, feed, em, nurture them. no where in "nature" would so many predators live in such close proximity. wildlife doesn't have a chance.

Peter VV Nov 12, 2008 12:21 PM Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good come back!

However, all my cats were feral, I give them a roof when they choose to come in, I wont imprison them. I dont think its right. I do feed them, so that they dont need ( and probably couldnt catch a cold , let alone birds ) to predate.They have never brought a bird or rat or anything inside in 18 years.

I disagree that evolution doesnt mean anything, as they are programmed to be predators, its just that humans have chosen to interfere. Evolutionary programming cannot be erased that easily, their instincts take over, just move a piece of string or a lace in front of a cat, they will pounce on it.

I dont understand your last question?

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

 

fraggle <EBbrewpunx (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> Sent: Wednesday, 12 November, 2008 8:08:41 PMRe: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

you think allowing hundreds of cats per square mile to roam outside and decimate what is left of local wildlife is ok?

evolution doesn't mean squat,, since WE created the domestic cat.

where in "the wild" could you show me where so many preadators live in such close proximity then?

Peter VV Nov 12, 2008 12:00 PM @gro ups.com Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

 

 

 

 

You think locking a cat up inside is ok? you think that its evolutionary instinct is wrong?

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

 

fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>@gro ups.comWednesday, 12 November, 2008 1:17:11 AMRe: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

i've been trying to hold comments back...but.. have t o say one thing

letting domesticated cats outside to "feed" on the local wildlife is pretty hideous and horrible.

"jo.heartwork" Nov 10, 2008 4:06 PM @gro ups.com Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

 

 

I disagree. You choose what to feed the cat- the cat will decide if it wants to kill birds or mice to eat.

 

Jo

 

 

-

Elaine Moses

@gro ups.com

Monday, November 10, 2008 1:10 PM

Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

Asking a cat to become vegetarian is a form of animal cruelty; their bodies are not made to eat veggies. I liked the articles suggestion; if you feel that strongly about it; get a goat!As a vegetarian, I would want to avoid cat food that is made from irresponsible slaughterhouses, but recognize how hard this could be. I'm sure there are more expensive brands of food available made from free-range chicken.Of course, there is also the option of letting the cat out of the house...the cat will catch at least some of its food in the form of free-range bird or mouse!ElaineDo not be who you thought you were; be who you wish you were. from Neale Walschs book Friendship with God

For in a Republic, who is “the country� Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them. Mark Twain

 

For in a Republic, who is “the country� Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them. Mark Twain

 

 

 

 

 

 

For in a Republic, who is “the country� Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Mark Twain

[Guest guest]

I agree with that, but I stick by my first two points.

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

 

fraggle <EBbrewpunx Sent: Wednesday, 12 November, 2008 8:25:37 PMRe: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

the last point goes with the first. cats exist in un-natural numbers due to humans. we breed the heck out of em, feed, em, nurture them. no where in "nature" would so many predators live in such close proximity. wildlife doesn't have a chance.

Peter VV Nov 12, 2008 12:21 PM @gro ups.com Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good come back!

However, all my cats were feral, I give them a roof when they choose to come in, I wont imprison them. I dont think its right. I do feed them, so that they dont need ( and probably couldnt catch a cold , let alone birds ) to predate.They have never brought a bird or rat or anything inside in 18 years.

I disagree that evolution doesnt mean anything, as they are programmed to be predators, its just that humans have chosen to interfere. Evolutionary programming cannot be erased that easily, their instincts take over, just move a piece of string or a lace in front of a cat, they will pounce on it.

I dont understand your last question?

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

 

fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>@gro ups.comWednesday, 12 November, 2008 8:08:41 PMRe: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

you think allowing hundreds of cats per square mile to roam outside and decimate what is left of local wildlife is ok?

evolution doesn't mean squat,, since WE created the domestic cat.

where in "the wild" could you show me where so many preadators live in such close proximity then?

Peter VV Nov 12, 2008 12:00 PM @gro ups.com Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

 

 

 

 

You think locking a cat up inside is ok? you think that its evolutionary instinct is wrong?

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

 

fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>@gro ups.comWednesday, 12 November, 2008 1:17:11 AMRe: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

i've been trying to hold comments back...but.. have t o say one thing

letting domesticated cats outside to "feed" on the local wildlife is pretty hideous and horrible.

"jo.heartwork" Nov 10, 2008 4:06 PM @gro ups.com Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

 

 

I disagree. You choose what to feed the cat- the cat will decide if it wants to kill birds or mice to eat.

 

Jo

 

 

-

Elaine Moses

@gro ups.com

Monday, November 10, 2008 1:10 PM

Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

Asking a cat to become vegetarian is a form of animal cruelty; their bodies are not made to eat veggies. I liked the articles suggestion; if you feel that strongly about it; get a goat!As a vegetarian, I would want to avoid cat food that is made from irresponsible slaughterhouses, but recognize how hard this could be. I'm sure there are more expensive brands of food available made from free-range chicken.Of course, there is also the option of letting the cat out of the house...the cat will catch at least some of its food in the form of free-range bird or mouse!ElaineDo not be who you thought you were; be who you wish you were. from Neale Walschs book Friendship with God

For in a Republic, who is “the country� Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them. Mark Twain

For in a Republic, who is “the country� Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them. Mark Twain

 

For in a Republic, who is “the country� Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them. Mark Twain

[Guest guest]



I think that they live longer and are healthier if they live indoors. Not just my opinion. Cats who have never been outdoors don't seem to miss it. They're happy hunting bugs and other household pests. And they don't over hunt and kill off the bird population in the neighborhood.

 

Instinct? Frankly, it's human instinct to strike back when someone annoys or hurts us, to do whatever it takes to get what we want without concerning ourselves with others. Is that condusive to civilation? Is it wrong to teach children that to do so isn't o.k.?

 

In the wild there would only be as many cats as could survive the many diseases and parasites we vaccinate them against. Only as many as survived the many accidents that befall them. Only the ones that don't starve to death, or become food to some larger animal. You think that's really a better, kinder life for them?

 

 

 

-

Peter VV

Wednesday, November 12, 2008 12:00 PM

Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

 

 

 

You think locking a cat up inside is ok? you think that its evolutionary instinct is wrong?

..

[Guest guest]

Firstly, yes I agree , it stands to reason that generally they live longer, apart from the people with cats who over feed them, or mistreat them in other ways.

Secondly, You seem to have missed the boat here, I was arguing that it is in the cats nature as a predator to hunt, and that thousands of years of genetic programming cannot be removed by taming them, they still have the instinct to hunt. Whether its a mouse, a bird or a bug or piece of twine, its there for all to see. I wont compare children to cats or vice versa.

Thirdly, you seem to be arguing against nature, or advocating playing god? you think that a predators life isnt kill or be killed in the wild? You are right in saying , as was previously mentioned , that in an urban setting cats will suffer, however, it only takes a few generations for them to return to a complete feral state, surving by their instincts. Unfortunately the enviroment is wrong and they suffer in this man made enviroment.

However, this seems to be straying from the original point, which seemed to be , should you let a cat out? as I previously said, all mine are free to go where they like, and get some fresh air and excercise. I will not lock them up, any more than I would lock up my kids.

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

 

"nina92116" <nina92116 Sent: Wednesday, 12 November, 2008 8:55:03 PMRe: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 I think that they live longer and are healthier if they live indoors. Not just my opinion. Cats who have never been outdoors don't seem to miss it. They're happy hunting bugs and other household pests. And they don't over hunt and kill off the bird population in the neighborhood.

 

Instinct? Frankly, it's human instinct to strike back when someone annoys or hurts us, to do whatever it takes to get what we want without concerning ourselves with others. Is that condusive to civilation? Is it wrong to teach children that to do so isn't o.k.?

 

In the wild there would only be as many cats as could survive the many diseases and parasites we vaccinate them against. Only as many as survived the many accidents that befall them. Only the ones that don't starve to death, or become food to some larger animal. You think that's really a better, kinder life for them?

 

 

 

-

Peter VV

@gro ups.com

Wednesday, November 12, 2008 12:00 PM

Re: Vegan diet is not best for felines

 

 

 

 

 

You think locking a cat up inside is ok? you think that its evolutionary instinct is wrong?

..

[Guest guest]



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You seem to have missed the boat here, I was arguing that it is in the cats nature as a predator to hunt, and that thousands of years of genetic programming cannot be removed by taming them, they still have the instinct to hunt. Whether its a mouse, a bird or a bug or piece of twine, its there for all to see.

 

I don't disagree with that. The feline I live with hunts bugs and the occasional mouse here in the condo. He loves to chase the lazer light, plays with wadded up pieces of paper, and we have quite a few games we play together that all echo the hunting and stalking instinct. I just said that if they don't live outdoors they practice the behaviors in different ways. In conjunction to that I was trying to say that the human fed, innoculated, and protected urban cat population is much larger per square acre than a feral cat population would be. Much like humans denuding the area around dense population centers of most of it's native vegetation and animal life, the concentration of domestic cats is deadly to the local bird and small mammal population.

 

Thirdly, you seem to be arguing against nature, or advocating playing god? you think that a predators life isnt kill or be killed in the wild?

 

No. niether of the above. LOL

 

 

You are right in saying , as was previously mentioned , that in an urban setting cats will suffer, however, it only takes a few generations for them to return to a complete feral state, surving by their instincts. Unfortunately the enviroment is wrong and they suffer in this man made environment.

 

Precisely. Mr. Iggs (whose human I am) is from a litter born to a feral mother. For reasons of her own she had and raised the litter on a friend's patio. I can only assume that she started out living with people and went native either by choice or need. Otherwise she wouldn't have had her kittens anywhere near people.

 

However, this seems to be straying from the original point, which seemed to be , should you let a cat out? as I previously said, all mine are free to go where they like, and get some fresh air and excercise. I will not lock them up, any more than I would lock up my kids.

 

I don't advocate locking anyone up. You want to let your cats out that's fine with me. But I don't think it's cruel to keep them indoors either. What I do advocate is protecting cats, dogs, and yes, children from enviroments that are not safe for them. If Mr. Iggs still lived in the trailer park where his mother lives he'd probably be fine. The park had little traffic, lots of hiding places and is pretty far from any of the many pockets in my area where coyotes hunt cats. (Yep, there are wild coyotes living in the city limits). Where I am is very urban. There is a lot of traffic, and a canyon nearby where I see coyotes from time to time. Not a good place for a 15 pound feline to play outside.

 

Or I could just quote Roseanne Roseanna Danna and say, "Never mind."