Vegan Indian, vegan wine, or how to alienate customers

[Guest guest]

http://www.examiner.com/x-1602-Boston-Wine-Examiner~y2009m2d7-Vegan-Indian-vegan-wine-or-how-to-alienate-customers

Your humble author received a culinary education today.

 

By inadvertently trying something different at a restaurant in Brookline called Tamarind Bay (the second location of the Harvard Square original), where I expected a traditional Indian buffet of a plethora of goodies with those amazing Indian-style sauces.

Unbeknownst to me (not their fault, of course), the numerous buffet choices, unlike what the rest of the city serves, were vegan. Only on Saturdays, they say. Come back tomorrow for chicken tikka masala. Sundays are "regular" days.

Seriously?

On one of the busiest times of the week, someone made an executive decision to alienate the majority of customers who walk in uninformed, but expecting their $10 will pay for at least some protein that doesn't come from beans and nuts.

After witnessing a large group of customers leaving after seeing the buffet choices to have a sandwich in Starbucks instead, one may wonder if this market niche is working.

There is a market for all things vegan. And a lot of Indian dishes are at least vegetarian. Absolutely fine. But if I can eat both, and they can only serve one side, who needs who more? Me the restaurant or they--customers? I am perfectly happy to have vegetarian options--but don't limit me, please, because you want to attract a certain clientele-or otherwise, advertise it as such, so I won’t waste my time.

There is an underlying message here. By limiting something to be 100% vegan, you are catering to a group of customers who will feel comfortable only if there's no meat on the menu. Do you usually hear carnivores publicly trying to impose their view on vegetarians? No so much. They just eat both food groups and don’t make it a crusade.

This means, though, that there apparently exists a niche requiring very specific attention.

How does this relate to wine?

Wine is not vegan, technically. While it is mostly a product of grapes, yeast and some sulfites, most wineries use fining agents in the clarifying process—to remove proteins, impurities, and such. These often consist of animal products – gelatin, cosein, egg albumen, and even bull’s blood (this one is not used in the US). Which means that to cater to vegetarians and vegans, some wineries specifically make wines with no animal products, including many Kosher wines.

Sustainable agriculture and eating habits, which don't limit meat or animal products as long as they are produced sustainably, make a lot of personal, business, and environmental sense. Creating an environment with complicated food restrictions does not.

This is only a personal opinion. Boston is a food-savvy city. What happens to vegan buffets remains to be seen.

Comments

 

 

Miguel: I'm not sure that most of the comments (which are more akin to nervous attacks and defensive rhetoric by Vegans and other vegeterianism minded fanatics) actually get back to Ms. Timakhovich's point. The crux of this post as I saw it was pointing out how absurd it is for an Indian restaurant to force customers to make a choice between an all Vegan buffet or dinner menu on an otherwise popular, value minded and often savory day (Saturday Indian buffets are usually the cash cows and provide large volume business to these types of restaurant and often provide great value and a chance for people to try out various dishes) Restaurants exist to: provide people with food and entertainment while out and make money. Alienating customers (having people get up and go to Starbucks to get a sandwich instead of staying is a

fairly good indicator of a failed concept and execution, not to mention loss of revenue) To the "foodie whining" (and seriously, was this the wittiest line you could come up with?) what pop culture refers to as "foodie" is often the result of a well trained, inquisitive and educated palate, most people are just to intimidated by food, it's much like pop culture calling oenophiles "whinos", which is fine as a playful term, but when put in this context it's slightly enervating. I'm willing to bet that in fact this food was, as are most Vegan dishes I've tried...well, let's say, insipid and bland.And yes, I've tried eating Vegan food on several occasions. I do love food so I felt like I should experience something before I criticized it. In fact I ask, how many chefs are Vegan? How many of them do you think would to being Vegan? Not too many huh? Wonder why culinary professionals, you know, people who do this for a

living, people who make other people happy via food, entertain them, stand at the front lines of all things nutrition and food related don't ascribe to this...Now, how many chefs currently support sustainable agriculture and practices? This city host at least 5 top rated restaurants who's kitchens all support sustainable food chains. To our Aussie friend...if it wasn't for wine and meat exports, your nation's agricultural industry would be non existent, which next to tourism provides a majority of your GDP...what you call "murdering animals" (personifying butchering or farming doesn't make a compelling enough argument against it, a "cute bunny" is still game meat or a delicious rabbit stew...) others call feeding, a livelihood and most of all, an enjoyable dinner, medium rare, with a nice Shiraz On meat issue being a moral issue...how does the issue of a growing children, ages 8-12 saying "I'm a vegetarian" sound morally speaking?

When kids are being influenced by teenagers, who are being influenced by some who feel it their duty to impose food related (and yes, what one consumes or not for sustenance is food related, not moral) are foregoing eating a balanced diet, including necessary animal protein, amino acid chains ONLY found in animal protein, then find themselves either anemic or with other health related deficiencies due to this...then I ask, where is the moral issue?It should be about choice, no argument, and we could argue that in this case, potential revenue generating, coming back to the restaurant and telling friends about it customers made the choice to leave and get a sandwich. The author chose to point out an absurd business and culinary decision, and some of us who believe in a balanced diet, yes, in sustainable farming, but most important, who's palate appreciates succulent food and can't equate blandness to flavor, and refuse to be made to feel

guilty over consuming animal protein as, well, eons of humanity has and will, decided to speak out. February 9, 11:57 AM

Vanessa: Typical foodie whining (geddit?).You need to open your mind, Ms. Timakhovich. February 9, 9:37 AM

Daniel: "Creating an environment with complicated food restrictions does not."Except when it does. February 9, 9:29 AM

Rob: Vegan food isn't just for vegans you know - why didn't you just sit down and order? You never know, you might actually have enjoyed it!BTW, veganism is not a 'complicated food restriction', it's a very simple one - nothing taken from animals. February 9, 6:50 AM

seb: As you know, in large parts of India, a "traditional Indian buffet" would be vegetarian. And Chicken Tikka Masala is pretty much a Western creation. So I'm surprised you found it so distressing. As someone who is food-savvy, aren't you open to any good food, whatever it's made out of? February 9, 3:11 AM

Doug Hines: There sure was a lot of w(h)ine in your story.EatRawOrganicSunshine.com February 8, 11:16 PM

robert: one of the things that 'kills' me is that people who lead a barely active to sedentary lifestyle think they need to eat meat to obtain enough protein so they can lay around. A quick google search for "vegan athlete" will return a plethora of results for professional vegan athletes in most major sports including the sport of juggernauts - american football.surely if professional athletes can get more than enough protein as vegans your average layabout can without much effort at all! February 8, 8:05 PM

Tex: Wow, so because you were slightly miffed at not being able to eat meat from murdered animals you go all into a tizzy about bad restaurant practices?Did you even try the food on offer I wonder, or is this just another sensationalist vegan beatup from some one who obviously has no real idea about sustainability?I'm from Australia so I'm not sure how large your circulation there is for the examiner, but with the low caliber of this "journalistic" piece I can't imagine it's very large, hence the obviously low paid reporters you hire. February 8, 5:40 PM

robert: I agree with the previous posters who have introduced to you the concept that profit is not the only consideration for business decisions. It's possible that the owners have come to realize the ethics of eating, but also realize that they can't exist as a vegan-only restaurant.also "Sustainable agriculture and eating habits, which don't limit meat or animal products as long as they are produced sustainably..."there is no such thing, and your suggestion that there is establishes your ignorance of the environmental, economic, and food supply/cost issues associated with the consumption of animal products.for instance, it takes a minimum of 2500 gallons of water to put one pound of beef on your plate...also16 lbs of grain1.7 gallons of oil2.5 acres of land can feed:23

people if cabbage is grown22 people if potatoes is grown19 people if rice is grown17 people if corn is grown15 people if wheat is grown2 people if chicken are produced2 people if milk is produced1 person if eggs are produced1 person if beef is produced2.5 acres of land can feed from 15-23 people if vegetables are produced1 person if beef is produced February 8, 10:51 AM

Pam: I don't know why the restaurant decided to promote an all vegan day, but perhaps they are trying to take action to support their ethical views, and if so more power to them. We need more people willing to stand up for what is right in all areas of our society, even when it hurts their pocketbooks. Meat-eating IS a moral issue in the same way that cheating, killing, stealing, lying, polluting the environment are all moral issues. It is not simply a personal food choice, where you prefer meat and I prefer veggies. Moral issues are issues that usually affect or harm others. Perhaps the restaurant is trying to promote awareness of this fact. Most people accept that some things are morally wrong and that it is perfectly proper to try and pressure others to do the right thing. Good for them!! Hopefully,

more vegans will patronize the restaurant to make up for the loss of meat-eaters. February 8, 9:20 AM

Laurie: I would imagine that the more vegans know about the vegan buffet at Tamarind Bay, the more they will want to patronize it. Sometimes those of us who eschew meat like to be able to have a choice of more than one two items off an entire menu. I acknowledge that you feel your time was wasted, and I agree that the vegan buffet should have been advertised so that you could have made a choice before walking in there; however, there are thousands of options for omnivores all over Boston, and one vegan buffet hardly constitutes a "crusade." Is it too much to ask for a handful of vegan options in this city? I am an ovo-lacto vegetarian, not a vegan, but I can tell you from first-hand experience that the variety and number of Boston-area restaurants that do vegetarian/vegan food well pales in comparison with what's

available in New York City, which is at least as food-savvy as Boston. February 7, 9:48 PM

 

Peter vv

[Guest guest]

OK.... I'm confused. Why would you go to an Indian restaurant if you want meat? They hardly consume any meat at all in India!BBPeter2009/2/9 Peter VV <swpgh01

 

 

 

http://www.examiner.com/x-1602-Boston-Wine-Examiner~y2009m2d7-Vegan-Indian-vegan-wine-or-how-to-alienate-customers

Your humble author received a culinary education today.

 

By inadvertently trying something different at a restaurant in Brookline called Tamarind Bay (the second location of the Harvard Square original), where I expected a traditional Indian buffet of a plethora of goodies with those amazing Indian-style sauces.

Unbeknownst to me (not their fault, of course), the numerous buffet choices, unlike what the rest of the city serves, were vegan. Only on Saturdays, they say. Come back tomorrow for chicken tikka masala. Sundays are " regular " days.

Seriously?

On one of the busiest times of the week, someone made an executive decision to alienate the majority of customers who walk in uninformed, but expecting their $10 will pay for at least some protein that doesn't come from beans and nuts.

After witnessing a large group of customers leaving after seeing the buffet choices to have a sandwich in Starbucks instead, one may wonder if this market niche is working.

There is a market for all things vegan. And a lot of Indian dishes are at least vegetarian. Absolutely fine. But if I can eat both, and they can only serve one side, who needs who more? Me the restaurant or they--customers? I am perfectly happy to have vegetarian options--but don't limit me, please, because you want to attract a certain clientele-or otherwise, advertise it as such, so I won't waste my time.

There is an underlying message here. By limiting something to be 100% vegan, you are catering to a group of customers who will feel comfortable only if there's no meat on the menu. Do you usually hear carnivores publicly trying to impose their view on vegetarians? No so much. They just eat both food groups and don't make it a crusade.

This means, though, that there apparently exists a niche requiring very specific attention.

How does this relate to wine?

Wine is not vegan, technically. While it is mostly a product of grapes, yeast and some sulfites, most wineries use fining agents in the clarifying process—to remove proteins, impurities, and such. These often consist of animal products – gelatin, cosein, egg albumen, and even bull's blood (this one is not used in the US). Which means that to cater to vegetarians and vegans, some wineries specifically make wines with no animal products, including many Kosher wines.

Sustainable agriculture and eating habits, which don't limit meat or animal products as long as they are produced sustainably, make a lot of personal, business, and environmental sense. Creating an environment with complicated food restrictions does not.

This is only a personal opinion. Boston is a food-savvy city. What happens to vegan buffets remains to be seen.

Comments

 

 

Miguel: I'm not sure that most of the comments (which are more akin to nervous attacks and defensive rhetoric by Vegans and other vegeterianism minded fanatics) actually get back to Ms. Timakhovich's point.

The crux of this post as I saw it was pointing out how absurd it is for an Indian restaurant to force customers to make a choice between an all Vegan buffet or dinner menu on an otherwise popular, value minded and often savory day (Saturday Indian buffets are usually the cash cows and provide large volume business to these types of restaurant and often provide great value and a chance for people to try out various dishes) Restaurants exist to: provide people with food and entertainment while out and make money. Alienating customers (having people get up and go to Starbucks to get a sandwich instead of staying is a

fairly good indicator of a failed concept and execution, not to mention loss of revenue) To the " foodie whining " (and seriously, was this the wittiest line you could come up with?) what pop culture refers to as " foodie " is often the result of a well trained, inquisitive and educated palate, most people are just to intimidated by food, it's much like pop culture calling oenophiles " whinos " , which is fine as a playful term, but when put in this context it's slightly enervating.

I'm willing to bet that in fact this food was, as are most Vegan dishes I've tried...well, let's say, insipid and bland.And yes, I've tried eating Vegan food on several occasions. I do love food so I felt like I should experience something before I criticized it.

In fact I ask, how many chefs are Vegan? How many of them do you think would to being Vegan? Not too many huh? Wonder why culinary professionals, you know, people who do this for a

living, people who make other people happy via food, entertain them, stand at the front lines of all things nutrition and food related don't ascribe to this...Now, how many chefs currently support sustainable agriculture and practices? This city host at least 5 top rated restaurants who's kitchens all support sustainable food chains.

To our Aussie friend...if it wasn't for wine and meat exports, your nation's agricultural industry would be non existent, which next to tourism provides a majority of your GDP...what you call " murdering animals " (personifying butchering or farming doesn't make a compelling enough argument against it, a " cute bunny " is still game meat or a delicious rabbit stew...) others call feeding, a livelihood and most of all, an enjoyable dinner, medium rare, with a nice Shiraz

On meat issue being a moral issue...how does the issue of a growing children, ages 8-12 saying " I'm a vegetarian " sound morally speaking?

When kids are being influenced by teenagers, who are being influenced by some who feel it their duty to impose food related (and yes, what one consumes or not for sustenance is food related, not moral) are foregoing eating a balanced diet, including necessary animal protein, amino acid chains ONLY found in animal protein, then find themselves either anemic or with other health related deficiencies due to this...then I ask, where is the moral issue?

It should be about choice, no argument, and we could argue that in this case, potential revenue generating, coming back to the restaurant and telling friends about it customers made the choice to leave and get a sandwich.

The author chose to point out an absurd business and culinary decision, and some of us who believe in a balanced diet, yes, in sustainable farming, but most important, who's palate appreciates succulent food and can't equate blandness to flavor, and refuse to be made to feel

guilty over consuming animal protein as, well, eons of humanity has and will, decided to speak out. February 9, 11:57 AM

Vanessa: Typical foodie whining (geddit?).You need to open your mind, Ms. Timakhovich. February 9, 9:37 AM

Daniel: " Creating an environment with complicated food restrictions does not. " Except when it does. February 9, 9:29 AM

Rob: Vegan food isn't just for vegans you know - why didn't you just sit down and order? You never know, you might actually have enjoyed it!

BTW, veganism is not a 'complicated food restriction', it's a very simple one - nothing taken from animals. February 9, 6:50 AM

seb: As you know, in large parts of India, a " traditional Indian buffet " would be vegetarian. And Chicken Tikka Masala is pretty much a Western creation. So I'm surprised you found it so distressing. As someone who is food-savvy, aren't you open to any good food, whatever it's made out of?

February 9, 3:11 AM

Doug Hines: There sure was a lot of w(h)ine in your story.EatRawOrganicSunshine.com February 8, 11:16 PM

robert: one of the things that 'kills' me is that people who lead a barely active to sedentary lifestyle think they need to eat meat to obtain enough protein so they can lay around. A quick google search for " vegan athlete " will return a plethora of results for professional vegan athletes in most major sports including the sport of juggernauts - american football.

surely if professional athletes can get more than enough protein as vegans your average layabout can without much effort at all! February 8, 8:05 PM

Tex: Wow, so because you were slightly miffed at not being able to eat meat from murdered animals you go all into a tizzy about bad restaurant practices?

Did you even try the food on offer I wonder, or is this just another sensationalist vegan beatup from some one who obviously has no real idea about sustainability?I'm from Australia so I'm not sure how large your circulation there is for the examiner, but with the low caliber of this " journalistic " piece I can't imagine it's very large, hence the obviously low paid reporters you hire.

February 8, 5:40 PM

robert: I agree with the previous posters who have introduced to you the concept that profit is not the only consideration for business decisions. It's possible that the owners have come to realize the ethics of eating, but also realize that they can't exist as a vegan-only restaurant.

also " Sustainable agriculture and eating habits, which don't limit meat or animal products as long as they are produced sustainably... " there is no such thing, and your suggestion that there is establishes your ignorance of the environmental, economic, and food supply/cost issues associated with the consumption of animal products.

for instance, it takes a minimum of 2500 gallons of water to put one pound of beef on your plate...also16 lbs of grain1.7 gallons of oil2.5 acres of land can feed:23

people if cabbage is grown22 people if potatoes is grown19 people if rice is grown17 people if corn is grown15 people if wheat is grown2 people if chicken are produced2 people if milk is produced

1 person if eggs are produced1 person if beef is produced2.5 acres of land can feed from 15-23 people if vegetables are produced1 person if beef is produced February 8, 10:51 AM

Pam: I don't know why the restaurant decided to promote an all vegan day, but perhaps they are trying to take action to support their ethical views, and if so more power to them. We need more people willing to stand up for what is right in all areas of our society, even when it hurts their pocketbooks.

Meat-eating IS a moral issue in the same way that cheating, killing, stealing, lying, polluting the environment are all moral issues. It is not simply a personal food choice, where you prefer meat and I prefer veggies. Moral issues are issues that usually affect or harm others.

Perhaps the restaurant is trying to promote awareness of this fact. Most people accept that some things are morally wrong and that it is perfectly proper to try and pressure others to do the right thing. Good for them!! Hopefully,

more vegans will patronize the restaurant to make up for the loss of meat-eaters. February 8, 9:20 AM

Laurie: I would imagine that the more vegans know about the vegan buffet at Tamarind Bay, the more they will want to patronize it. Sometimes those of us who eschew meat like to be able to have a choice of more than one two items off an entire menu.

I acknowledge that you feel your time was wasted, and I agree that the vegan buffet should have been advertised so that you could have made a choice before walking in there; however, there are thousands of options for omnivores all over Boston, and one vegan buffet hardly constitutes a " crusade. " Is it too much to ask for a handful of vegan options in this city? I am an ovo-lacto vegetarian, not a vegan, but I can tell you from first-hand experience that the variety and number of Boston-area restaurants that do vegetarian/vegan food well pales in comparison with what's

available in New York City, which is at least as food-savvy as Boston. February 7, 9:48 PM

 

Peter vv

[Guest guest]

Heh. I love Boston.

 

And this person sounds like he wants an Americanized version of Indian food versus the real thing.

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

 

 

 

 

http://www.examiner.com/x-1602-Boston-Wine-Examiner~y2009m2d7-Vegan-Indian-vegan-wine-or-how-to-alienate-customers

Your humble author received a culinary education today.

 

By inadvertently trying something different at a restaurant in Brookline called Tamarind Bay (the second location of the Harvard Square original), where I expected a traditional Indian buffet of a plethora of goodies with those amazing Indian-style sauces.

Unbeknownst to me (not their fault, of course), the numerous buffet choices, unlike what the rest of the city serves, were vegan. Only on Saturdays, they say. Come back tomorrow for chicken tikka masala. Sundays are " regular " days.

Seriously?

On one of the busiest times of the week, someone made an executive decision to alienate the majority of customers who walk in uninformed, but expecting their $10 will pay for at least some protein that doesn't come from beans and nuts.

After witnessing a large group of customers leaving after seeing the buffet choices to have a sandwich in Starbucks instead, one may wonder if this market niche is working.

There is a market for all things vegan. And a lot of Indian dishes are at least vegetarian. Absolutely fine. But if I can eat both, and they can only serve one side, who needs who more? Me the restaurant or they--customers? I am perfectly happy to have vegetarian options--but don't limit me, please, because you want to attract a certain clientele-or otherwise, advertise it as such, so I won't waste my time.

There is an underlying message here. By limiting something to be 100% vegan, you are catering to a group of customers who will feel comfortable only if there's no meat on the menu. Do you usually hear carnivores publicly trying to impose their view on vegetarians? No so much. They just eat both food groups and don't make it a crusade.

This means, though, that there apparently exists a niche requiring very specific attention.

How does this relate to wine?

Wine is not vegan, technically. While it is mostly a product of grapes, yeast and some sulfites, most wineries use fining agents in the clarifying process—to remove proteins, impurities, and such. These often consist of animal products – gelatin, cosein, egg albumen, and even bull's blood (this one is not used in the US). Which means that to cater to vegetarians and vegans, some wineries specifically make wines with no animal products, including many Kosher wines.

Sustainable agriculture and eating habits, which don't limit meat or animal products as long as they are produced sustainably, make a lot of personal, business, and environmental sense. Creating an environment with complicated food restrictions does not.

This is only a personal opinion. Boston is a food-savvy city. What happens to vegan buffets remains to be seen.

Comments

 

 

Miguel: I'm not sure that most of the comments (which are more akin to nervous attacks and defensive rhetoric by Vegans and other vegeterianism minded fanatics) actually get back to Ms. Timakhovich's point.

The crux of this post as I saw it was pointing out how absurd it is for an Indian restaurant to force customers to make a choice between an all Vegan buffet or dinner menu on an otherwise popular, value minded and often savory day (Saturday Indian buffets are usually the cash cows and provide large volume business to these types of restaurant and often provide great value and a chance for people to try out various dishes) Restaurants exist to: provide people with food and entertainment while out and make money. Alienating customers (having people get up and go to Starbucks to get a sandwich instead of staying is a fairly good indicator of a failed concept and execution, not to mention loss of revenue)

To the " foodie whining " (and seriously, was this the wittiest line you could come up with?) what pop culture refers to as " foodie " is often the result of a well trained, inquisitive and educated palate, most people are just to intimidated by food, it's much like pop culture calling oenophiles " whinos " , which is fine as a playful term, but when put in this context it's slightly enervating.

I'm willing to bet that in fact this food was, as are most Vegan dishes I've tried...well, let's say, insipid and bland.And yes, I've tried eating Vegan food on several occasions. I do love food so I felt like I should experience something before I criticized it.

In fact I ask, how many chefs are Vegan? How many of them do you think would to being Vegan? Not too many huh? Wonder why culinary professionals, you know, people who do this for a living, people who make other people happy via food, entertain them, stand at the front lines of all things nutrition and food related don't ascribe to this...

Now, how many chefs currently support sustainable agriculture and practices? This city host at least 5 top rated restaurants who's kitchens all support sustainable food chains. To our Aussie friend...if it wasn't for wine and meat exports, your nation's agricultural industry would be non existent, which next to tourism provides a majority of your GDP...what you call " murdering animals " (personifying butchering or farming doesn't make a compelling enough argument against it, a " cute bunny " is still game meat or a delicious rabbit stew...) others call feeding, a livelihood and most of all, an enjoyable dinner, medium rare, with a nice Shiraz

On meat issue being a moral issue...how does the issue of a growing children, ages 8-12 saying " I'm a vegetarian " sound morally speaking? When kids are being influenced by teenagers, who are being influenced by some who feel it their duty to impose food related (and yes, what one consumes or not for sustenance is food related, not moral) are foregoing eating a balanced diet, including necessary animal protein, amino acid chains ONLY found in animal protein, then find themselves either anemic or with other health related deficiencies due to this...then I ask, where is the moral issue?

It should be about choice, no argument, and we could argue that in this case, potential revenue generating, coming back to the restaurant and telling friends about it customers made the choice to leave and get a sandwich.

The author chose to point out an absurd business and culinary decision, and some of us who believe in a balanced diet, yes, in sustainable farming, but most important, who's palate appreciates succulent food and can't equate blandness to flavor, and refuse to be made to feel guilty over consuming animal protein as, well, eons of humanity has and will, decided to

speak out. February 9, 11:57 AM

Vanessa: Typical foodie whining (geddit?).You need to open your mind, Ms. Timakhovich.

February 9, 9:37 AM

Daniel: " Creating an environment with complicated food restrictions does not. "

Except when it does. February 9, 9:29 AM

Rob: Vegan food isn't just for vegans you know - why didn't you just sit down and order? You never know, you might actually have enjoyed it!

BTW, veganism is not a 'complicated food restriction', it's a very simple one - nothing taken from animals. February 9, 6:50 AM

seb: As you know, in large parts of India, a " traditional Indian buffet " would be vegetarian. And Chicken Tikka Masala is pretty much a Western creation. So I'm surprised you found it so distressing. As someone who is food-savvy, aren't you open to any good food, whatever it's made out of?

February 9, 3:11 AM

Doug Hines: There sure was a lot of w(h)ine in your story.EatRawOrganicSunshine.com

February 8, 11:16 PM

robert: one of the things that 'kills' me is that people who lead a barely active to sedentary lifestyle think they need to eat meat to obtain enough protein so they can lay around. A quick google search for " vegan athlete " will return a plethora of results for professional vegan athletes in most major sports including the sport of juggernauts - american football.

surely if professional athletes can get more than enough protein as vegans your average layabout can without much effort at all! February 8, 8:05 PM

Tex: Wow, so because you were slightly miffed at not being able to eat meat from murdered animals you go all into a tizzy about bad restaurant practices?

Did you even try the food on offer I wonder, or is this just another sensationalist vegan beatup from some one who obviously has no real idea about sustainability?I'm from Australia so I'm not sure how large your circulation there is for the examiner, but with the low caliber of this " journalistic " piece I can't imagine it's very large, hence the obviously low paid reporters you hire.

February 8, 5:40 PM

robert: I agree with the previous posters who have introduced to you the concept that profit is not the only consideration for business decisions. It's possible that the owners have come to realize the ethics of eating, but also realize that they can't exist as a vegan-only restaurant.

also " Sustainable agriculture and eating habits, which don't limit meat or animal products as long as they are produced sustainably... " there is no such thing, and your suggestion that there is establishes your ignorance of the environmental, economic, and food supply/cost issues associated with the consumption of animal products.

for instance, it takes a minimum of 2500 gallons of water to put one pound of beef on your plate...also16 lbs of grain1.7 gallons of oil2.5 acres of land can feed:23 people if cabbage is grown

22 people if potatoes is grown19 people if rice is grown17 people if corn is grown15 people if wheat is grown2 people if chicken are produced2 people if milk is produced1 person if eggs are produced

1 person if beef is produced2.5 acres of land can feed from 15-23 people if vegetables are produced1 person if beef is produced February 8, 10:51 AM

Pam: I don't know why the restaurant decided to promote an all vegan day, but perhaps they are trying to take action to support their ethical views, and if so more power to them. We need more people willing to stand up for what is right in all areas of our society, even when it hurts their pocketbooks.

Meat-eating IS a moral issue in the same way that cheating, killing, stealing, lying, polluting the environment are all moral issues. It is not simply a personal food choice, where you prefer meat and I prefer veggies. Moral issues are issues that usually affect or harm others.

Perhaps the restaurant is trying to promote awareness of this fact. Most people accept that some things are morally wrong and that it is perfectly proper to try and pressure others to do the right thing. Good for them!! Hopefully, more vegans will patronize the restaurant to make up for the loss of meat-eaters.

February 8, 9:20 AM

Laurie: I would imagine that the more vegans know about the vegan buffet at Tamarind Bay, the more they will want to patronize it. Sometimes those of us who eschew meat like to be able to have a choice of more than one two items off an entire menu.

I acknowledge that you feel your time was wasted, and I agree that the vegan buffet should have been advertised so that you could have made a choice before walking in there; however, there are thousands of options for omnivores all over Boston, and one vegan buffet hardly constitutes a " crusade. " Is it too much to ask for a handful of vegan options in this city? I am an ovo-lacto vegetarian, not a vegan, but I can tell you from first-hand experience that the variety and number of Boston-area restaurants that do vegetarian/vegan food well pales in comparison with what's available in New York City, which is at least as food-savvy as Boston.

February 7, 9:48 PM

 

Peter vv

-- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com

~Boston_GothicBoston_MysticBoston-Pagans

[Guest guest]

at least a third of indians (and nearly all pakistanis, who are formerly indian) are moslem, peter. they happily kill and eat all kinds of animals. except for pigs, of course. that's where they draw the line, because that's disgusting! (?)

blake On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

 

 

 

OK.... I'm confused. Why would you go to an Indian restaurant if you want meat? They hardly consume any meat at all in India!BBPeter2009/2/9 Peter VV <swpgh01

 

 

 

 

http://www.examiner.com/x-1602-Boston-Wine-Examiner~y2009m2d7-Vegan-Indian-vegan-wine-or-how-to-alienate-customers

Your humble author received a culinary education today.

 

By inadvertently trying something different at a restaurant in Brookline called Tamarind Bay (the second location of the Harvard Square original), where I expected a traditional Indian buffet of a plethora of goodies with those amazing Indian-style sauces.

Unbeknownst to me (not their fault, of course), the numerous buffet choices, unlike what the rest of the city serves, were vegan. Only on Saturdays, they say. Come back tomorrow for chicken tikka masala. Sundays are " regular " days.

Seriously?

On one of the busiest times of the week, someone made an executive decision to alienate the majority of customers who walk in uninformed, but expecting their $10 will pay for at least some protein that doesn't come from beans and nuts.

After witnessing a large group of customers leaving after seeing the buffet choices to have a sandwich in Starbucks instead, one may wonder if this market niche is working.

There is a market for all things vegan. And a lot of Indian dishes are at least vegetarian. Absolutely fine. But if I can eat both, and they can only serve one side, who needs who more? Me the restaurant or they--customers? I am perfectly happy to have vegetarian options--but don't limit me, please, because you want to attract a certain clientele-or otherwise, advertise it as such, so I won't waste my time.

There is an underlying message here. By limiting something to be 100% vegan, you are catering to a group of customers who will feel comfortable only if there's no meat on the menu. Do you usually hear carnivores publicly trying to impose their view on vegetarians? No so much. They just eat both food groups and don't make it a crusade.

This means, though, that there apparently exists a niche requiring very specific attention.

How does this relate to wine?

Wine is not vegan, technically. While it is mostly a product of grapes, yeast and some sulfites, most wineries use fining agents in the clarifying process—to remove proteins, impurities, and such. These often consist of animal products – gelatin, cosein, egg albumen, and even bull's blood (this one is not used in the US). Which means that to cater to vegetarians and vegans, some wineries specifically make wines with no animal products, including many Kosher wines.

Sustainable agriculture and eating habits, which don't limit meat or animal products as long as they are produced sustainably, make a lot of personal, business, and environmental sense. Creating an environment with complicated food restrictions does not.

This is only a personal opinion. Boston is a food-savvy city. What happens to vegan buffets remains to be seen.

Comments

 

 

Miguel: I'm not sure that most of the comments (which are more akin to nervous attacks and defensive rhetoric by Vegans and other vegeterianism minded fanatics) actually get back to Ms. Timakhovich's point.

The crux of this post as I saw it was pointing out how absurd it is for an Indian restaurant to force customers to make a choice between an all Vegan buffet or dinner menu on an otherwise popular, value minded and often savory day (Saturday Indian buffets are usually the cash cows and provide large volume business to these types of restaurant and often provide great value and a chance for people to try out various dishes) Restaurants exist to: provide people with food and entertainment while out and make money. Alienating customers (having people get up and go to Starbucks to get a sandwich instead of staying is a

fairly good indicator of a failed concept and execution, not to mention loss of revenue) To the " foodie whining " (and seriously, was this the wittiest line you could come up with?) what pop culture refers to as " foodie " is often the result of a well trained, inquisitive and educated palate, most people are just to intimidated by food, it's much like pop culture calling oenophiles " whinos " , which is fine as a playful term, but when put in this context it's slightly enervating.

I'm willing to bet that in fact this food was, as are most Vegan dishes I've tried...well, let's say, insipid and bland.And yes, I've tried eating Vegan food on several occasions. I do love food so I felt like I should experience something before I criticized it.

In fact I ask, how many chefs are Vegan? How many of them do you think would to being Vegan? Not too many huh? Wonder why culinary professionals, you know, people who do this for a

living, people who make other people happy via food, entertain them, stand at the front lines of all things nutrition and food related don't ascribe to this...Now, how many chefs currently support sustainable agriculture and practices? This city host at least 5 top rated restaurants who's kitchens all support sustainable food chains.

To our Aussie friend...if it wasn't for wine and meat exports, your nation's agricultural industry would be non existent, which next to tourism provides a majority of your GDP...what you call " murdering animals " (personifying butchering or farming doesn't make a compelling enough argument against it, a " cute bunny " is still game meat or a delicious rabbit stew...) others call feeding, a livelihood and most of all, an enjoyable dinner, medium rare, with a nice Shiraz

On meat issue being a moral issue...how does the issue of a growing children, ages 8-12 saying " I'm a vegetarian " sound morally speaking?

When kids are being influenced by teenagers, who are being influenced by some who feel it their duty to impose food related (and yes, what one consumes or not for sustenance is food related, not moral) are foregoing eating a balanced diet, including necessary animal protein, amino acid chains ONLY found in animal protein, then find themselves either anemic or with other health related deficiencies due to this...then I ask, where is the moral issue?

It should be about choice, no argument, and we could argue that in this case, potential revenue generating, coming back to the restaurant and telling friends about it customers made the choice to leave and get a sandwich.

The author chose to point out an absurd business and culinary decision, and some of us who believe in a balanced diet, yes, in sustainable farming, but most important, who's palate appreciates succulent food and can't equate blandness to flavor, and refuse to be made to feel

guilty over consuming animal protein as, well, eons of humanity has and will, decided to speak out. February 9, 11:57 AM

Vanessa: Typical foodie whining (geddit?).You need to open your mind, Ms. Timakhovich. February 9, 9:37 AM

Daniel: " Creating an environment with complicated food restrictions does not. " Except when it does. February 9, 9:29 AM

Rob: Vegan food isn't just for vegans you know - why didn't you just sit down and order? You never know, you might actually have enjoyed it!

BTW, veganism is not a 'complicated food restriction', it's a very simple one - nothing taken from animals. February 9, 6:50 AM

seb: As you know, in large parts of India, a " traditional Indian buffet " would be vegetarian. And Chicken Tikka Masala is pretty much a Western creation. So I'm surprised you found it so distressing. As someone who is food-savvy, aren't you open to any good food, whatever it's made out of?

February 9, 3:11 AM

Doug Hines: There sure was a lot of w(h)ine in your story.EatRawOrganicSunshine.com February 8, 11:16 PM

robert: one of the things that 'kills' me is that people who lead a barely active to sedentary lifestyle think they need to eat meat to obtain enough protein so they can lay around. A quick google search for " vegan athlete " will return a plethora of results for professional vegan athletes in most major sports including the sport of juggernauts - american football.

surely if professional athletes can get more than enough protein as vegans your average layabout can without much effort at all! February 8, 8:05 PM

Tex: Wow, so because you were slightly miffed at not being able to eat meat from murdered animals you go all into a tizzy about bad restaurant practices?

Did you even try the food on offer I wonder, or is this just another sensationalist vegan beatup from some one who obviously has no real idea about sustainability?I'm from Australia so I'm not sure how large your circulation there is for the examiner, but with the low caliber of this " journalistic " piece I can't imagine it's very large, hence the obviously low paid reporters you hire.

February 8, 5:40 PM

robert: I agree with the previous posters who have introduced to you the concept that profit is not the only consideration for business decisions. It's possible that the owners have come to realize the ethics of eating, but also realize that they can't exist as a vegan-only restaurant.

also " Sustainable agriculture and eating habits, which don't limit meat or animal products as long as they are produced sustainably... " there is no such thing, and your suggestion that there is establishes your ignorance of the environmental, economic, and food supply/cost issues associated with the consumption of animal products.

for instance, it takes a minimum of 2500 gallons of water to put one pound of beef on your plate...also16 lbs of grain1.7 gallons of oil2.5 acres of land can feed:23

people if cabbage is grown22 people if potatoes is grown19 people if rice is grown17 people if corn is grown15 people if wheat is grown2 people if chicken are produced2 people if milk is produced

1 person if eggs are produced1 person if beef is produced2.5 acres of land can feed from 15-23 people if vegetables are produced1 person if beef is produced February 8, 10:51 AM

Pam: I don't know why the restaurant decided to promote an all vegan day, but perhaps they are trying to take action to support their ethical views, and if so more power to them. We need more people willing to stand up for what is right in all areas of our society, even when it hurts their pocketbooks.

Meat-eating IS a moral issue in the same way that cheating, killing, stealing, lying, polluting the environment are all moral issues. It is not simply a personal food choice, where you prefer meat and I prefer veggies. Moral issues are issues that usually affect or harm others.

Perhaps the restaurant is trying to promote awareness of this fact. Most people accept that some things are morally wrong and that it is perfectly proper to try and pressure others to do the right thing. Good for them!! Hopefully,

more vegans will patronize the restaurant to make up for the loss of meat-eaters. February 8, 9:20 AM

Laurie: I would imagine that the more vegans know about the vegan buffet at Tamarind Bay, the more they will want to patronize it. Sometimes those of us who eschew meat like to be able to have a choice of more than one two items off an entire menu.

I acknowledge that you feel your time was wasted, and I agree that the vegan buffet should have been advertised so that you could have made a choice before walking in there; however, there are thousands of options for omnivores all over Boston, and one vegan buffet hardly constitutes a " crusade. " Is it too much to ask for a handful of vegan options in this city? I am an ovo-lacto vegetarian, not a vegan, but I can tell you from first-hand experience that the variety and number of Boston-area restaurants that do vegetarian/vegan food well pales in comparison with what's

available in New York City, which is at least as food-savvy as Boston. February 7, 9:48 PM

 

Peter vv

[Guest guest]

Hi BlakeMaybe so - but in India it is expected that products contain no mear unless it clearly states otherwise. Vegetarianism is part of Indian culture rather than religion, and many of those Muslims may be allowed to eat meat under religious rules, but choose not to. Much like many Western Christians are vegetarian.

Funnily enough, Islam and vegetarianism aren't mutually exclusive!BBPeter2009/2/9 Blake Wilson <mbw

 

 

at least a third of indians (and nearly all pakistanis, who are formerly indian) are moslem, peter. they happily kill and eat all kinds of animals. except for pigs, of course. that's where they draw the line, because that's disgusting! (?)

blake On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

 

 

 

OK.... I'm confused. Why would you go to an Indian restaurant if you want meat? They hardly consume any meat at all in India!BBPeter2009/2/9 Peter VV <swpgh01

 

 

 

 

http://www.examiner.com/x-1602-Boston-Wine-Examiner~y2009m2d7-Vegan-Indian-vegan-wine-or-how-to-alienate-customers

Your humble author received a culinary education today.

 

By inadvertently trying something different at a restaurant in Brookline called Tamarind Bay (the second location of the Harvard Square original), where I expected a traditional Indian buffet of a plethora of goodies with those amazing Indian-style sauces.

Unbeknownst to me (not their fault, of course), the numerous buffet choices, unlike what the rest of the city serves, were vegan. Only on Saturdays, they say. Come back tomorrow for chicken tikka masala. Sundays are " regular " days.

Seriously?

On one of the busiest times of the week, someone made an executive decision to alienate the majority of customers who walk in uninformed, but expecting their $10 will pay for at least some protein that doesn't come from beans and nuts.

After witnessing a large group of customers leaving after seeing the buffet choices to have a sandwich in Starbucks instead, one may wonder if this market niche is working.

There is a market for all things vegan. And a lot of Indian dishes are at least vegetarian. Absolutely fine. But if I can eat both, and they can only serve one side, who needs who more? Me the restaurant or they--customers? I am perfectly happy to have vegetarian options--but don't limit me, please, because you want to attract a certain clientele-or otherwise, advertise it as such, so I won't waste my time.

There is an underlying message here. By limiting something to be 100% vegan, you are catering to a group of customers who will feel comfortable only if there's no meat on the menu. Do you usually hear carnivores publicly trying to impose their view on vegetarians? No so much. They just eat both food groups and don't make it a crusade.

This means, though, that there apparently exists a niche requiring very specific attention.

How does this relate to wine?

Wine is not vegan, technically. While it is mostly a product of grapes, yeast and some sulfites, most wineries use fining agents in the clarifying process—to remove proteins, impurities, and such. These often consist of animal products – gelatin, cosein, egg albumen, and even bull's blood (this one is not used in the US). Which means that to cater to vegetarians and vegans, some wineries specifically make wines with no animal products, including many Kosher wines.

Sustainable agriculture and eating habits, which don't limit meat or animal products as long as they are produced sustainably, make a lot of personal, business, and environmental sense. Creating an environment with complicated food restrictions does not.

This is only a personal opinion. Boston is a food-savvy city. What happens to vegan buffets remains to be seen.

Comments

 

 

Miguel: I'm not sure that most of the comments (which are more akin to nervous attacks and defensive rhetoric by Vegans and other vegeterianism minded fanatics) actually get back to Ms. Timakhovich's point.

The crux of this post as I saw it was pointing out how absurd it is for an Indian restaurant to force customers to make a choice between an all Vegan buffet or dinner menu on an otherwise popular, value minded and often savory day (Saturday Indian buffets are usually the cash cows and provide large volume business to these types of restaurant and often provide great value and a chance for people to try out various dishes) Restaurants exist to: provide people with food and entertainment while out and make money. Alienating customers (having people get up and go to Starbucks to get a sandwich instead of staying is a

fairly good indicator of a failed concept and execution, not to mention loss of revenue) To the " foodie whining " (and seriously, was this the wittiest line you could come up with?) what pop culture refers to as " foodie " is often the result of a well trained, inquisitive and educated palate, most people are just to intimidated by food, it's much like pop culture calling oenophiles " whinos " , which is fine as a playful term, but when put in this context it's slightly enervating.

I'm willing to bet that in fact this food was, as are most Vegan dishes I've tried...well, let's say, insipid and bland.And yes, I've tried eating Vegan food on several occasions. I do love food so I felt like I should experience something before I criticized it.

In fact I ask, how many chefs are Vegan? How many of them do you think would to being Vegan? Not too many huh? Wonder why culinary professionals, you know, people who do this for a

living, people who make other people happy via food, entertain them, stand at the front lines of all things nutrition and food related don't ascribe to this...Now, how many chefs currently support sustainable agriculture and practices? This city host at least 5 top rated restaurants who's kitchens all support sustainable food chains.

To our Aussie friend...if it wasn't for wine and meat exports, your nation's agricultural industry would be non existent, which next to tourism provides a majority of your GDP...what you call " murdering animals " (personifying butchering or farming doesn't make a compelling enough argument against it, a " cute bunny " is still game meat or a delicious rabbit stew...) others call feeding, a livelihood and most of all, an enjoyable dinner, medium rare, with a nice Shiraz

On meat issue being a moral issue...how does the issue of a growing children, ages 8-12 saying " I'm a vegetarian " sound morally speaking?

When kids are being influenced by teenagers, who are being influenced by some who feel it their duty to impose food related (and yes, what one consumes or not for sustenance is food related, not moral) are foregoing eating a balanced diet, including necessary animal protein, amino acid chains ONLY found in animal protein, then find themselves either anemic or with other health related deficiencies due to this...then I ask, where is the moral issue?

It should be about choice, no argument, and we could argue that in this case, potential revenue generating, coming back to the restaurant and telling friends about it customers made the choice to leave and get a sandwich.

The author chose to point out an absurd business and culinary decision, and some of us who believe in a balanced diet, yes, in sustainable farming, but most important, who's palate appreciates succulent food and can't equate blandness to flavor, and refuse to be made to feel

guilty over consuming animal protein as, well, eons of humanity has and will, decided to speak out. February 9, 11:57 AM

Vanessa: Typical foodie whining (geddit?).You need to open your mind, Ms. Timakhovich. February 9, 9:37 AM

Daniel: " Creating an environment with complicated food restrictions does not. " Except when it does. February 9, 9:29 AM

Rob: Vegan food isn't just for vegans you know - why didn't you just sit down and order? You never know, you might actually have enjoyed it!

BTW, veganism is not a 'complicated food restriction', it's a very simple one - nothing taken from animals. February 9, 6:50 AM

seb: As you know, in large parts of India, a " traditional Indian buffet " would be vegetarian. And Chicken Tikka Masala is pretty much a Western creation. So I'm surprised you found it so distressing. As someone who is food-savvy, aren't you open to any good food, whatever it's made out of?

February 9, 3:11 AM

Doug Hines: There sure was a lot of w(h)ine in your story.EatRawOrganicSunshine.com February 8, 11:16 PM

robert: one of the things that 'kills' me is that people who lead a barely active to sedentary lifestyle think they need to eat meat to obtain enough protein so they can lay around. A quick google search for " vegan athlete " will return a plethora of results for professional vegan athletes in most major sports including the sport of juggernauts - american football.

surely if professional athletes can get more than enough protein as vegans your average layabout can without much effort at all! February 8, 8:05 PM

Tex: Wow, so because you were slightly miffed at not being able to eat meat from murdered animals you go all into a tizzy about bad restaurant practices?

Did you even try the food on offer I wonder, or is this just another sensationalist vegan beatup from some one who obviously has no real idea about sustainability?I'm from Australia so I'm not sure how large your circulation there is for the examiner, but with the low caliber of this " journalistic " piece I can't imagine it's very large, hence the obviously low paid reporters you hire.

February 8, 5:40 PM

robert: I agree with the previous posters who have introduced to you the concept that profit is not the only consideration for business decisions. It's possible that the owners have come to realize the ethics of eating, but also realize that they can't exist as a vegan-only restaurant.

also " Sustainable agriculture and eating habits, which don't limit meat or animal products as long as they are produced sustainably... " there is no such thing, and your suggestion that there is establishes your ignorance of the environmental, economic, and food supply/cost issues associated with the consumption of animal products.

for instance, it takes a minimum of 2500 gallons of water to put one pound of beef on your plate...also16 lbs of grain1.7 gallons of oil2.5 acres of land can feed:23

people if cabbage is grown22 people if potatoes is grown19 people if rice is grown17 people if corn is grown15 people if wheat is grown2 people if chicken are produced2 people if milk is produced

1 person if eggs are produced1 person if beef is produced2.5 acres of land can feed from 15-23 people if vegetables are produced1 person if beef is produced February 8, 10:51 AM

Pam: I don't know why the restaurant decided to promote an all vegan day, but perhaps they are trying to take action to support their ethical views, and if so more power to them. We need more people willing to stand up for what is right in all areas of our society, even when it hurts their pocketbooks.

Meat-eating IS a moral issue in the same way that cheating, killing, stealing, lying, polluting the environment are all moral issues. It is not simply a personal food choice, where you prefer meat and I prefer veggies. Moral issues are issues that usually affect or harm others.

Perhaps the restaurant is trying to promote awareness of this fact. Most people accept that some things are morally wrong and that it is perfectly proper to try and pressure others to do the right thing. Good for them!! Hopefully,

more vegans will patronize the restaurant to make up for the loss of meat-eaters. February 8, 9:20 AM

Laurie: I would imagine that the more vegans know about the vegan buffet at Tamarind Bay, the more they will want to patronize it. Sometimes those of us who eschew meat like to be able to have a choice of more than one two items off an entire menu.

I acknowledge that you feel your time was wasted, and I agree that the vegan buffet should have been advertised so that you could have made a choice before walking in there; however, there are thousands of options for omnivores all over Boston, and one vegan buffet hardly constitutes a " crusade. " Is it too much to ask for a handful of vegan options in this city? I am an ovo-lacto vegetarian, not a vegan, but I can tell you from first-hand experience that the variety and number of Boston-area restaurants that do vegetarian/vegan food well pales in comparison with what's

available in New York City, which is at least as food-savvy as Boston. February 7, 9:48 PM

 

Peter vv

[Guest guest]

the indian mcdonalds website is always fun to check out.....mcveggie burgers, etc.....blake On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Hi BlakeMaybe so - but in India it is expected that products contain no mear unless it clearly states otherwise. Vegetarianism is part of Indian culture rather than religion, and many of those Muslims may be allowed to eat meat under religious rules, but choose not to. Much like many Western Christians are vegetarian.

Funnily enough, Islam and vegetarianism aren't mutually exclusive!BBPeter2009/2/9 Blake Wilson <mbw

 

 

 

at least a third of indians (and nearly all pakistanis, who are formerly indian) are moslem, peter. they happily kill and eat all kinds of animals. except for pigs, of course. that's where they draw the line, because that's disgusting! (?)

blake On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

 

 

 

OK.... I'm confused. Why would you go to an Indian restaurant if you want meat? They hardly consume any meat at all in India!BBPeter2009/2/9 Peter VV <swpgh01

 

 

 

 

http://www.examiner.com/x-1602-Boston-Wine-Examiner~y2009m2d7-Vegan-Indian-vegan-wine-or-how-to-alienate-customers

Your humble author received a culinary education today.

 

By inadvertently trying something different at a restaurant in Brookline called Tamarind Bay (the second location of the Harvard Square original), where I expected a traditional Indian buffet of a plethora of goodies with those amazing Indian-style sauces.

Unbeknownst to me (not their fault, of course), the numerous buffet choices, unlike what the rest of the city serves, were vegan. Only on Saturdays, they say. Come back tomorrow for chicken tikka masala. Sundays are " regular " days.

Seriously?

On one of the busiest times of the week, someone made an executive decision to alienate the majority of customers who walk in uninformed, but expecting their $10 will pay for at least some protein that doesn't come from beans and nuts.

After witnessing a large group of customers leaving after seeing the buffet choices to have a sandwich in Starbucks instead, one may wonder if this market niche is working.

There is a market for all things vegan. And a lot of Indian dishes are at least vegetarian. Absolutely fine. But if I can eat both, and they can only serve one side, who needs who more? Me the restaurant or they--customers? I am perfectly happy to have vegetarian options--but don't limit me, please, because you want to attract a certain clientele-or otherwise, advertise it as such, so I won't waste my time.

There is an underlying message here. By limiting something to be 100% vegan, you are catering to a group of customers who will feel comfortable only if there's no meat on the menu. Do you usually hear carnivores publicly trying to impose their view on vegetarians? No so much. They just eat both food groups and don't make it a crusade.

This means, though, that there apparently exists a niche requiring very specific attention.

How does this relate to wine?

Wine is not vegan, technically. While it is mostly a product of grapes, yeast and some sulfites, most wineries use fining agents in the clarifying process—to remove proteins, impurities, and such. These often consist of animal products – gelatin, cosein, egg albumen, and even bull's blood (this one is not used in the US). Which means that to cater to vegetarians and vegans, some wineries specifically make wines with no animal products, including many Kosher wines.

Sustainable agriculture and eating habits, which don't limit meat or animal products as long as they are produced sustainably, make a lot of personal, business, and environmental sense. Creating an environment with complicated food restrictions does not.

This is only a personal opinion. Boston is a food-savvy city. What happens to vegan buffets remains to be seen.

Comments

 

 

Miguel: I'm not sure that most of the comments (which are more akin to nervous attacks and defensive rhetoric by Vegans and other vegeterianism minded fanatics) actually get back to Ms. Timakhovich's point.

The crux of this post as I saw it was pointing out how absurd it is for an Indian restaurant to force customers to make a choice between an all Vegan buffet or dinner menu on an otherwise popular, value minded and often savory day (Saturday Indian buffets are usually the cash cows and provide large volume business to these types of restaurant and often provide great value and a chance for people to try out various dishes) Restaurants exist to: provide people with food and entertainment while out and make money. Alienating customers (having people get up and go to Starbucks to get a sandwich instead of staying is a

fairly good indicator of a failed concept and execution, not to mention loss of revenue) To the " foodie whining " (and seriously, was this the wittiest line you could come up with?) what pop culture refers to as " foodie " is often the result of a well trained, inquisitive and educated palate, most people are just to intimidated by food, it's much like pop culture calling oenophiles " whinos " , which is fine as a playful term, but when put in this context it's slightly enervating.

I'm willing to bet that in fact this food was, as are most Vegan dishes I've tried...well, let's say, insipid and bland.And yes, I've tried eating Vegan food on several occasions. I do love food so I felt like I should experience something before I criticized it.

In fact I ask, how many chefs are Vegan? How many of them do you think would to being Vegan? Not too many huh? Wonder why culinary professionals, you know, people who do this for a

living, people who make other people happy via food, entertain them, stand at the front lines of all things nutrition and food related don't ascribe to this...Now, how many chefs currently support sustainable agriculture and practices? This city host at least 5 top rated restaurants who's kitchens all support sustainable food chains.

To our Aussie friend...if it wasn't for wine and meat exports, your nation's agricultural industry would be non existent, which next to tourism provides a majority of your GDP...what you call " murdering animals " (personifying butchering or farming doesn't make a compelling enough argument against it, a " cute bunny " is still game meat or a delicious rabbit stew...) others call feeding, a livelihood and most of all, an enjoyable dinner, medium rare, with a nice Shiraz

On meat issue being a moral issue...how does the issue of a growing children, ages 8-12 saying " I'm a vegetarian " sound morally speaking?

When kids are being influenced by teenagers, who are being influenced by some who feel it their duty to impose food related (and yes, what one consumes or not for sustenance is food related, not moral) are foregoing eating a balanced diet, including necessary animal protein, amino acid chains ONLY found in animal protein, then find themselves either anemic or with other health related deficiencies due to this...then I ask, where is the moral issue?

It should be about choice, no argument, and we could argue that in this case, potential revenue generating, coming back to the restaurant and telling friends about it customers made the choice to leave and get a sandwich.

The author chose to point out an absurd business and culinary decision, and some of us who believe in a balanced diet, yes, in sustainable farming, but most important, who's palate appreciates succulent food and can't equate blandness to flavor, and refuse to be made to feel

guilty over consuming animal protein as, well, eons of humanity has and will, decided to speak out. February 9, 11:57 AM

Vanessa: Typical foodie whining (geddit?).You need to open your mind, Ms. Timakhovich. February 9, 9:37 AM

Daniel: " Creating an environment with complicated food restrictions does not. " Except when it does. February 9, 9:29 AM

Rob: Vegan food isn't just for vegans you know - why didn't you just sit down and order? You never know, you might actually have enjoyed it!

BTW, veganism is not a 'complicated food restriction', it's a very simple one - nothing taken from animals. February 9, 6:50 AM

seb: As you know, in large parts of India, a " traditional Indian buffet " would be vegetarian. And Chicken Tikka Masala is pretty much a Western creation. So I'm surprised you found it so distressing. As someone who is food-savvy, aren't you open to any good food, whatever it's made out of?

February 9, 3:11 AM

Doug Hines: There sure was a lot of w(h)ine in your story.EatRawOrganicSunshine.com February 8, 11:16 PM

robert: one of the things that 'kills' me is that people who lead a barely active to sedentary lifestyle think they need to eat meat to obtain enough protein so they can lay around. A quick google search for " vegan athlete " will return a plethora of results for professional vegan athletes in most major sports including the sport of juggernauts - american football.

surely if professional athletes can get more than enough protein as vegans your average layabout can without much effort at all! February 8, 8:05 PM

Tex: Wow, so because you were slightly miffed at not being able to eat meat from murdered animals you go all into a tizzy about bad restaurant practices?

Did you even try the food on offer I wonder, or is this just another sensationalist vegan beatup from some one who obviously has no real idea about sustainability?I'm from Australia so I'm not sure how large your circulation there is for the examiner, but with the low caliber of this " journalistic " piece I can't imagine it's very large, hence the obviously low paid reporters you hire.

February 8, 5:40 PM

robert: I agree with the previous posters who have introduced to you the concept that profit is not the only consideration for business decisions. It's possible that the owners have come to realize the ethics of eating, but also realize that they can't exist as a vegan-only restaurant.

also " Sustainable agriculture and eating habits, which don't limit meat or animal products as long as they are produced sustainably... " there is no such thing, and your suggestion that there is establishes your ignorance of the environmental, economic, and food supply/cost issues associated with the consumption of animal products.

for instance, it takes a minimum of 2500 gallons of water to put one pound of beef on your plate...also16 lbs of grain1.7 gallons of oil2.5 acres of land can feed:23

people if cabbage is grown22 people if potatoes is grown19 people if rice is grown17 people if corn is grown15 people if wheat is grown2 people if chicken are produced2 people if milk is produced

1 person if eggs are produced1 person if beef is produced2.5 acres of land can feed from 15-23 people if vegetables are produced1 person if beef is produced February 8, 10:51 AM

Pam: I don't know why the restaurant decided to promote an all vegan day, but perhaps they are trying to take action to support their ethical views, and if so more power to them. We need more people willing to stand up for what is right in all areas of our society, even when it hurts their pocketbooks.

Meat-eating IS a moral issue in the same way that cheating, killing, stealing, lying, polluting the environment are all moral issues. It is not simply a personal food choice, where you prefer meat and I prefer veggies. Moral issues are issues that usually affect or harm others.

Perhaps the restaurant is trying to promote awareness of this fact. Most people accept that some things are morally wrong and that it is perfectly proper to try and pressure others to do the right thing. Good for them!! Hopefully,

more vegans will patronize the restaurant to make up for the loss of meat-eaters. February 8, 9:20 AM

Laurie: I would imagine that the more vegans know about the vegan buffet at Tamarind Bay, the more they will want to patronize it. Sometimes those of us who eschew meat like to be able to have a choice of more than one two items off an entire menu.

I acknowledge that you feel your time was wasted, and I agree that the vegan buffet should have been advertised so that you could have made a choice before walking in there; however, there are thousands of options for omnivores all over Boston, and one vegan buffet hardly constitutes a " crusade. " Is it too much to ask for a handful of vegan options in this city? I am an ovo-lacto vegetarian, not a vegan, but I can tell you from first-hand experience that the variety and number of Boston-area restaurants that do vegetarian/vegan food well pales in comparison with what's

available in New York City, which is at least as food-savvy as Boston. February 7, 9:48 PM

 

Peter vv

[Guest guest]

i don't even want to say what i would do if he walked into my restuarant and acted like this

Blue Rose Feb 9, 2009 10:41 AM Re: Vegan Indian, vegan wine, or how to alienate customers

 

 

 

 

Heh. I love Boston.

 

And this person sounds like he wants an Americanized version of Indian food versus the real thing.

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

http://www.examiner.com/x-1602-Boston-Wine-Examiner~y2009m2d7-Vegan-Indian-vegan-wine-or-how-to-alienate-customers

Your humble author received a culinary education today.

 

By inadvertently trying something different at a restaurant in Brookline called Tamarind Bay (the second location of the Harvard Square original), where I expected a traditional Indian buffet of a plethora of goodies with those amazing Indian-style sauces.

Unbeknownst to me (not their fault, of course), the numerous buffet choices, unlike what the rest of the city serves, were vegan. Only on Saturdays, they say. Come back tomorrow for chicken tikka masala. Sundays are "regular" days.

Seriously?

On one of the busiest times of the week, someone made an executive decision to alienate the majority of customers who walk in uninformed, but expecting their $10 will pay for at least some protein that doesn't come from beans and nuts.

After witnessing a large group of customers leaving after seeing the buffet choices to have a sandwich in Starbucks instead, one may wonder if this market niche is working.

There is a market for all things vegan. And a lot of Indian dishes are at least vegetarian. Absolutely fine. But if I can eat both, and they can only serve one side, who needs who more? Me the restaurant or they--customers? I am perfectly happy to have vegetarian options--but don't limit me, please, because you want to attract a certain clientele-or otherwise, advertise it as such, so I won't waste my time.

There is an underlying message here. By limiting something to be 100% vegan, you are catering to a group of customers who will feel comfortable only if there's no meat on the menu. Do you usually hear carnivores publicly trying to impose their view on vegetarians? No so much. They just eat both food groups and don't make it a crusade.

This means, though, that there apparently exists a niche requiring very specific attention.

How does this relate to wine?

Wine is not vegan, technically. While it is mostly a product of grapes, yeast and some sulfites, most wineries use fining agents in the clarifying process—to remove proteins, impurities, and such. These often consist of animal products – gelatin, cosein, egg albumen, and even bull's blood (this one is not used in the US). Which means that to cater to vegetarians and vegans, some wineries specifically make wines with no animal products, including many Kosher wines.

Sustainable agriculture and eating habits, which don't limit meat or animal products as long as they are produced sustainably, make a lot of personal, business, and environmental sense. Creating an environment with complicated food restrictions does not.

This is only a personal opinion. Boston is a food-savvy city. What happens to vegan buffets remains to be seen.

Comments

 

 

Miguel: I'm not sure that most of the comments (which are more akin to nervous attacks and defensive rhetoric by Vegans and other vegeterianism minded fanatics) actually get back to Ms. Timakhovich's point. The crux of this post as I saw it was pointing out how absurd it is for an Indian restaurant to force customers to make a choice between an all Vegan buffet or dinner menu on an otherwise popular, value minded and often savory day (Saturday Indian buffets are usually the cash cows and provide large volume business to these types of restaurant and often provide great value and a chance for people to try out various dishes) Restaurants exist to: provide people with food and entertainment while out and make money. Alienating customers (having people get up and go to Starbucks to get a sandwich instead of staying is a fairly good indicator of a failed concept and execution, not to mention loss of revenue) To the "foodie whining" (and seriously, was this the wittiest line you could come up with?) what pop culture refers to as "foodie" is often the result of a well trained, inquisitive and educated palate, most people are just to intimidated by food, it's much like pop culture calling oenophiles "whinos", which is fine as a playful term, but when put in this context it's slightly enervating. I'm willing to bet that in fact this food was, as are most Vegan dishes I've tried...well, let's say, insipid and bland.And yes, I've tried eating Vegan food on several occasions. I do love food so I felt like I should experience something before I criticized it. In fact I ask, how many chefs are Vegan? How many of them do you think would to being Vegan? Not too many huh? Wonder why culinary professionals, you know, people who do this for a living, people who make other people happy via food, entertain them, stand at the front lines of all things nutrition and food related don't ascribe to this...Now, how many chefs currently support sustainable agriculture and practices? This city host at least 5 top rated restaurants who's kitchens all support sustainable food chains. To our Aussie friend...if it wasn't for wine and meat exports, your nation's agricultural industry would be non existent, which next to tourism provides a majority of your GDP...what you call "murdering animals" (personifying butchering or farming doesn't make a compelling enough argument against it, a "cute bunny" is still game meat or a delicious rabbit stew...) others call feeding, a livelihood and most of all, an enjoyable dinner, medium rare, with a nice Shiraz On meat issue being a moral issue...how does the issue of a growing children, ages 8-12 saying "I'm a vegetarian" sound morally speaking? When kids are being influenced by teenagers, who are being influenced by some who feel it their duty to impose food related (and yes, what one consumes or not for sustenance is food related, not moral) are foregoing eating a balanced diet, including necessary animal protein, amino acid chains ONLY found in animal protein, then find themselves either anemic or with other health related deficiencies due to this...then I ask, where is the moral issue?It should be about choice, no argument, and we could argue that in this case, potential revenue generating, coming back to the restaurant and telling friends about it customers made the choice to leave and get a sandwich. The author chose to point out an absurd business and culinary decision, and some of us who believe in a balanced diet, yes, in sustainable farming, but most important, who's palate appreciates succulent food and can't equate blandness to flavor, and refuse to be made to feel guilty over consuming animal protein as, well, eons of humanity has and will, decided to speak out. February 9, 11:57 AM

Vanessa: Typical foodie whining (geddit?).You need to open your mind, Ms. Timakhovich. February 9, 9:37 AM

Daniel: "Creating an environment with complicated food restrictions does not."Except when it does. February 9, 9:29 AM

Rob: Vegan food isn't just for vegans you know - why didn't you just sit down and order? You never know, you might actually have enjoyed it!BTW, veganism is not a 'complicated food restriction', it's a very simple one - nothing taken from animals. February 9, 6:50 AM

seb: As you know, in large parts of India, a "traditional Indian buffet" would be vegetarian. And Chicken Tikka Masala is pretty much a Western creation. So I'm surprised you found it so distressing. As someone who is food-savvy, aren't you open to any good food, whatever it's made out of? February 9, 3:11 AM

Doug Hines: There sure was a lot of w(h)ine in your story.EatRawOrganicSunshine.com February 8, 11:16 PM

robert: one of the things that 'kills' me is that people who lead a barely active to sedentary lifestyle think they need to eat meat to obtain enough protein so they can lay around. A quick google search for "vegan athlete" will return a plethora of results for professional vegan athletes in most major sports including the sport of juggernauts - american football.surely if professional athletes can get more than enough protein as vegans your average layabout can without much effort at all! February 8, 8:05 PM

Tex: Wow, so because you were slightly miffed at not being able to eat meat from murdered animals you go all into a tizzy about bad restaurant practices?Did you even try the food on offer I wonder, or is this just another sensationalist vegan beatup from some one who obviously has no real idea about sustainability?I'm from Australia so I'm not sure how large your circulation there is for the examiner, but with the low caliber of this "journalistic" piece I can't imagine it's very large, hence the obviously low paid reporters you hire. February 8, 5:40 PM

robert: I agree with the previous posters who have introduced to you the concept that profit is not the only consideration for business decisions. It's possible that the owners have come to realize the ethics of eating, but also realize that they can't exist as a vegan-only restaurant.also "Sustainable agriculture and eating habits, which don't limit meat or animal products as long as they are produced sustainably..."there is no such thing, and your suggestion that there is establishes your ignorance of the environmental, economic, and food supply/cost issues associated with the consumption of animal products.for instance, it takes a minimum of 2500 gallons of water to put one pound of beef on your plate...also16 lbs of grain1.7 gallons of oil2.5 acres of land can feed:23 people if cabbage is grown22 people if potatoes is grown19 people if rice is grown17 people if corn is grown15 people if wheat is grown2 people if chicken are produced2 people if milk is produced1 person if eggs are produced1 person if beef is produced2.5 acres of land can feed from 15-23 people if vegetables are produced1 person if beef is produced February 8, 10:51 AM

Pam: I don't know why the restaurant decided to promote an all vegan day, but perhaps they are trying to take action to support their ethical views, and if so more power to them. We need more people willing to stand up for what is right in all areas of our society, even when it hurts their pocketbooks. Meat-eating IS a moral issue in the same way that cheating, killing, stealing, lying, polluting the environment are all moral issues. It is not simply a personal food choice, where you prefer meat and I prefer veggies. Moral issues are issues that usually affect or harm others. Perhaps the restaurant is trying to promote awareness of this fact. Most people accept that some things are morally wrong and that it is perfectly proper to try and pressure others to do the right thing. Good for them!! Hopefully, more vegans will patronize the restaurant to make up for the loss of meat-eaters. February 8, 9:20 AM

Laurie: I would imagine that the more vegans know about the vegan buffet at Tamarind Bay, the more they will want to patronize it. Sometimes those of us who eschew meat like to be able to have a choice of more than one two items off an entire menu. I acknowledge that you feel your time was wasted, and I agree that the vegan buffet should have been advertised so that you could have made a choice before walking in there; however, there are thousands of options for omnivores all over Boston, and one vegan buffet hardly constitutes a "crusade." Is it too much to ask for a handful of vegan options in this city? I am an ovo-lacto vegetarian, not a vegan, but I can tell you from first-hand experience that the variety and number of Boston-area restaurants that do vegetarian/vegan food well pales in comparison with what's available in New York City, which is at least as food-savvy as Boston. February 7, 9:48 PM

 

Peter vv

-- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com~Boston_GothicBoston_MysticBoston-Pagans

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, men are scattered and smeared over the desert grass,

And the generals have accomplished nothing.

 

-Nefarious War

Li Po (Circa 750)