Hi, new member saying Morning!

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone, I went back to being a veggie about 6 weeks ago after a break of

about 13 years! Then about 3 weeks ago I made the change to being a vegan, well,

I say that but I kind of intended to keep eating eggs as I have chickens in my

back garden. I have a bit of a dilemma about this, my reasons for being veggie /

vegan are entirely animal welfare orientated and obviously I know my hens are

happy (ex-batts and others) but would love to know how you would all feel about

this. Can I call myself a vegan if I eat eggs from my chooks?

I've been REALLY struggling with lack of cheese, GOD I love cheese! I've

discovered tofutti which is lovely (but a 14 mile round trip when I want some -

not exactly carbon-footprint friendly!) but I can't stand Cheezley. Discovered

rice milk, particularly the hazlenut and almond, wow, put that in your coffee

it's like a Starbucks with a shot of syrup!

Anyway, my Mum is a veggie but apart from that and one other veggie friend I

don't know any other veggies and NO other vegans so will be trawling the forum

in the hope of tips and hints if that's OK?

 

Apart from the cheese issue, and the eggs I just wanted to say I LOVE being a

veggie again, I feel SO much better mentally for doing what I've believed in for

SO long but gave up for convenience sake!

 

Bex

[Guest guest]

Hi Bex

 

Welcome to Vegan Chat.

 

I don't think you can call yourself vegan if you eat eggs - but if they are your own rescued hens and you look after them well, I wouldn't think it unethical to eat the eggs.

 

Well done on turning veggie again :-)

 

Jo

 

 

-

pinkerbex

Monday, September 07, 2009 10:16 AM

Hi, new member saying Morning!

Hi everyone, I went back to being a veggie about 6 weeks ago after a break of about 13 years! Then about 3 weeks ago I made the change to being a vegan, well, I say that but I kind of intended to keep eating eggs as I have chickens in my back garden. I have a bit of a dilemma about this, my reasons for being veggie / vegan are entirely animal welfare orientated and obviously I know my hens are happy (ex-batts and others) but would love to know how you would all feel about this. Can I call myself a vegan if I eat eggs from my chooks?I've been REALLY struggling with lack of cheese, GOD I love cheese! I've discovered tofutti which is lovely (but a 14 mile round trip when I want some - not exactly carbon-footprint friendly!) but I can't stand Cheezley. Discovered rice milk, particularly the hazlenut and almond, wow, put that in your coffee it's like a Starbucks with a shot of syrup! Anyway, my Mum is a veggie but apart from that and one other veggie friend I don't know any other veggies and NO other vegans so will be trawling the forum in the hope of tips and hints if that's OK? Apart from the cheese issue, and the eggs I just wanted to say I LOVE being a veggie again, I feel SO much better mentally for doing what I've believed in for SO long but gave up for convenience sake! Bex

[Guest guest]

Hey Bex,

 

Welcome to the group and back to being

veggie! I agree with Jo about the eggs.

 

Judy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of jo.heartwork

Hi Bex

 

 

I don't think you can call yourself vegan if you eat

eggs - but if they are your own rescued hens and you look after them well, I

wouldn't think it unethical to eat the eggs.

 

 

 

 

 

Jo

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the welcome, can I ask (and I really AM being thick - I know no

vegans so have no one to ask hence coming on here) what is the issue with eating

eggs? I don't keep a cockerel so the eggs are unfertilised, I know people don't

like caged birds (mine have the bottom of the garden to roam and trash) or is it

just a blanket ban on anything animal regardless? Because I've gone off dairy

because of the farming methods, same with meat, I couldn't afford organic and

couldn't bring myself to eat non-organic then realised they were all taken to

the same abbattoirs and subject to the same " farming " methods and so that was my

decider. Because I keep my hens, and I know they're happy, healthy (and

freeloading a lot of the time! lol!) I don't see an issue with it. Same with

honey, I don't eat honey because I'm not that keen on it anyway, but why don't

vegans eat honey? I don't know much about bee-keeping but I didn't think

bee-keeping caused harm to bees, on the contrary I thought it actually promoted

bees and ensured them a healthy and safe environment (not trying to start a row

and these really are genuine questions!)

[Guest guest]

Why, you ask? There are as many reasons why as there are vegans. The big

answers are - our bodies, our planet, and the animals.

 

From a dictionary:

 

Vegan is a vegetarian who omits all animal products from the diet.

 

Vegan is a vegetarian who eats plant products only, especially one who uses

no products derived from animals, as fur or leather.

 

Vegan was coined by Donald Watson to distinguish those who abstain from all

animal products (eggs, cheese, etc.) from those who merely refuse to eat the

animals.

 

Judy

 

 

On

Behalf Of pinkerbex

Monday, September 07, 2009 2:40 PM

 

Re: Hi, new member saying Morning!

 

Thanks for the welcome, can I ask (and I really AM being thick - I know no

vegans so have no one to ask hence coming on here) what is the issue with

eating eggs? I don't keep a cockerel so the eggs are unfertilised, I know

people don't like caged birds (mine have the bottom of the garden to roam

and trash) or is it just a blanket ban on anything animal regardless?

Because I've gone off dairy because of the farming methods, same with meat,

I couldn't afford organic and couldn't bring myself to eat non-organic then

realised they were all taken to the same abbattoirs and subject to the same

" farming " methods and so that was my decider. Because I keep my hens, and I

know they're happy, healthy (and freeloading a lot of the time! lol!) I

don't see an issue with it. Same with honey, I don't eat honey because I'm

not that keen on it anyway, but why don't vegans eat honey? I don't know

much about bee-keeping but I didn't think bee-keeping caused harm to bees,

on the contrary I thought it actually promoted bees and ensured them a

healthy and safe environment (not trying to start a row and these really are

genuine questions!)

 

 

 

 

---

 

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[Guest guest]

Thanks for that, I hadn't seen that quote before. I think the only thing I will

struggle around is eggs in baking, because I bake a lot and my children are

still omni for a variety of reasons, although I think the eldest will become at

least vegetarian at some stage, so they have eggs in their diet.

I wouldn't get rid of my hens, I love them, some are ex-battery girls and have

been out of their cages for nearly two years - to look at them you would hardly

know what they've been through. They don't lay anymore but they're daft as

brushes and although, yes they're caged birds and they're not entirely

free-range, the alternative for them and millioons like them is just too awful

to think about. So when these die, as they will, I will almost certainly get

more, the eggs (when I have a surplus) go to friends and family and people at

work so they're not wasted. I just wonder what people think ought to happen to

the eggs of an ex battery hen, because they continue to lay for a good while

after their freed. I know in a perfect world there would be no battery hens but

obviously its not and there are. So what should someone do, who takes in

ex-batts, with the eggs? Throw them away? That to me seems also cruel, it's like

wasting something the chicken has no choice but to produce. I hate waste.

This gives me lots to think about - I'm SO glad I found this site. As far as the

other animal products, as things wear out I've been replacing any leather items

but I simply can't afford to suddenly throw away everything that might possibly

be unethical. That would be half my shoes (including my work shoes which I've

worn for 17 years and are still going strong) belts, make-up, ALL household

cleaning products, I just can't do it all in one go. I was going to replace them

as they needed it, I'm not after anyone telling me how to do it, but how did you

guys do it? Cold turkey all in one go, or more gradually? Finance is a serious

concern for me too.

 

Anyway, I'm sure I will shut-up shortly, it's just nice to be able to pick other

peoples brains - makes me see stuff from other points of view

 

Bex

[Guest guest]

Hi BexThere's two different questions here... the first is effectively " what is the definition of a vegan? " And the second is " what is wrong with certain products? " To take them in order... A vegan is someone who doesn't consume (i.e. eat, wear, buy, or in any other way use) any animal products. Although many people choose to be vegan for ethical reasons, the definition does not actually require an ethical standpoint - it's just a word that defines a particular lifestyle choice. So, strictly speaking, anyone who eats eggs or honey is not vegan. Simple as that... no ethical imperatives, no right or wrong, simply a definition.

The second question. From an ethical standpoint, if you keep chickens as pets, and happen to make use of their eggs, I see no ethical issues with doing that (in fact, I might myself at some point in the future). The problems with the eggs you buy in the shops are many fold. But let's take the most ethical eggs, and avoid battery farming, overcrowding of hens, de-beaking, etc. Even these eggs are produced for the sake of making money... so, only certain birds are of any value in that regard. But nature has a way of ensuring that not just one sex of any species is born in the majority... so, what about all those male chicks? They can't be used for profit because they don't lay eggs. It only takes one cockrel to fertilise any number of hens... so, what do they do with all those male babies? So, eggs from hens which you keep as pets, I don't see an ethical issue with (although I do wonder how many people would randomly pick a chick and be happy if it turned out to be male)...

Honey... main problem is the fact that bees produce honey for their young, to make them strong and healthy... so, if we take the honey, what do the young bees eat? Generally the nutrient free stuff farmers put in it's place. Result... unhealthy, weak bees. Second problem is that you don't want your queen bee to disappear off when she gets bored... so, wing clipping, or imprisonment in a confined space which she can't leave, or both. There's a big page on honey production on the vegan society website, which is worth a read.

Hope that helpsBBPeter2009/9/7 pinkerbex <pinkerbex

Thanks for the welcome, can I ask (and I really AM being thick - I know no vegans so have no one to ask hence coming on here) what is the issue with eating eggs? I don't keep a cockerel so the eggs are unfertilised, I know people don't like caged birds (mine have the bottom of the garden to roam and trash) or is it just a blanket ban on anything animal regardless? Because I've gone off dairy because of the farming methods, same with meat, I couldn't afford organic and couldn't bring myself to eat non-organic then realised they were all taken to the same abbattoirs and subject to the same " farming " methods and so that was my decider. Because I keep my hens, and I know they're happy, healthy (and freeloading a lot of the time! lol!) I don't see an issue with it. Same with honey, I don't eat honey because I'm not that keen on it anyway, but why don't vegans eat honey? I don't know much about bee-keeping but I didn't think bee-keeping caused harm to bees, on the contrary I thought it actually promoted bees and ensured them a healthy and safe environment (not trying to start a row and these really are genuine questions!)

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I'm with Yarrow on this one. I've been vegan for 11 years and still have a suit (which I wear about 3 times a year) that I've had since before then which is part wool. I don't see any point in sending it to landfill, as that would just do more harm than good, but when it eventually wears out, I'll replace it with an animal free version!

BBPeter2009/9/7 <yarrow

At 7:15 PM +0000 9/7/09, pinkerbex wrote:

....As far as the other animal products, as things wear out I've been

replacing any leather items but I simply can't afford to suddenly

throw away everything that might possibly be unethical. That would be

half my shoes (including my work shoes which I've worn for 17 years

and are still going strong) belts, make-up, ALL household cleaning

products, I just can't do it all in one go. I was going to replace

them as they needed it, I'm not after anyone telling me how to do it,

but how did you guys do it? Cold turkey all in one go, or more

gradually? Finance is a serious concern for me too.

>

 

Gradually! I've been vegetarian for more than 30 years and vegan for

20 years, but I'm still using a wool blanket I've had all my life. I

don't have any leather around because I couldn't stand the smell of

it, and the leather shoes I had long ago never lasted more than a

year anyway, except the rarely worn hiking boots that I eventually

gave away. Haven't used tallow soaps for years, ever since I noticed

they make my skin itch. I also still have some cashmere sweaters, all

bought used, that I occasionally wear when it gets cold here.

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Bex, I like your approach and it's much the same as mine.I have a drum covered in cowhide and I intend to keep it; nothing would be gained by getting rid of it, the cow will still be dead no matter what I do with it. But as my shoes and other things wear out, I'll not replace them with animal products. As far as your eggs go, they are gifts from grateful hens who are alive because of you.Patricia--- On Mon, 9/7/09, pinkerbex <pinkerbex wrote:pinkerbex <pinkerbex Re: Hi, new member saying Morning! Date: Monday, September 7, 2009,

12:15 PMThanks for that, I hadn't seen that quote before. I think the only thing I will struggle around is eggs in baking, because I bake a lot and my children are still omni for a variety of reasons, although I think the eldest will become at least vegetarian at some stage, so they have eggs in their diet. I wouldn't get rid of my hens, I love them, some are ex-battery girls and have been out of their cages for nearly two years - to look at them you would hardly know what they've been through. They don't lay anymore but they're daft as brushes and although, yes they're caged birds and they're not entirely free-range, the alternative for them and millioons like them is just too awful to think about. So when these die, as they will, I will almost certainly get more, the eggs (when I have a surplus) go to friends and family and people at work so they're not wasted. I just wonder what people think ought to happen to the

eggs of an ex battery hen, because they continue to lay for a good while after their freed. I know in a perfect world there would be no battery hens but obviously its not and there are. So what should someone do, who takes in ex-batts, with the eggs? Throw them away? That to me seems also cruel, it's like wasting something the chicken has no choice but to produce. I hate waste.This gives me lots to think about - I'm SO glad I found this site. As far as the other animal products, as things wear out I've been replacing any leather items but I simply can't afford to suddenly throw away everything that might possibly be unethical. That would be half my shoes (including my work shoes which I've worn for 17 years and are still going strong) belts, make-up, ALL household cleaning products, I just can't do it all in one go. I was going to replace them as they needed it, I'm not after anyone telling me how to do it, but how did you guys do it? Cold turkey

all in one go, or more gradually? Finance is a serious concern for me too. Anyway, I'm sure I will shut-up shortly, it's just nice to be able to pick other peoples brains - makes me see stuff from other points of viewBex---To send an email to -! Groups Links<*> /<*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional<*> To change settings online go to: /join ( ID required)<*> To change settings via email: -digest -fullfeatured <*>

[Guest guest]

At 7:15 PM +0000 9/7/09, pinkerbex wrote:

....As far as the other animal products, as things wear out I've been

replacing any leather items but I simply can't afford to suddenly

throw away everything that might possibly be unethical. That would be

half my shoes (including my work shoes which I've worn for 17 years

and are still going strong) belts, make-up, ALL household cleaning

products, I just can't do it all in one go. I was going to replace

them as they needed it, I'm not after anyone telling me how to do it,

but how did you guys do it? Cold turkey all in one go, or more

gradually? Finance is a serious concern for me too.

>

 

Gradually! I've been vegetarian for more than 30 years and vegan for

20 years, but I'm still using a wool blanket I've had all my life. I

don't have any leather around because I couldn't stand the smell of

it, and the leather shoes I had long ago never lasted more than a

year anyway, except the rarely worn hiking boots that I eventually

gave away. Haven't used tallow soaps for years, ever since I noticed

they make my skin itch. I also still have some cashmere sweaters, all

bought used, that I occasionally wear when it gets cold here.

[Guest guest]

Hi Bex

 

I have a Hare Krishna friend who says they don't eat eggs because they are the

chickens menses - which I guess is true.

 

Jo

 

, " pinkerbex " <pinkerbex wrote:

>

> Thanks for that, I hadn't seen that quote before. I think the only thing I

will struggle around is eggs in baking, because I bake a lot and my children are

still omni for a variety of reasons, although I think the eldest will become at

least vegetarian at some stage, so they have eggs in their diet.

> I wouldn't get rid of my hens, I love them, some are ex-battery girls and have

been out of their cages for nearly two years - to look at them you would hardly

know what they've been through. They don't lay anymore but they're daft as

brushes and although, yes they're caged birds and they're not entirely

free-range, the alternative for them and millioons like them is just too awful

to think about. So when these die, as they will, I will almost certainly get

more, the eggs (when I have a surplus) go to friends and family and people at

work so they're not wasted. I just wonder what people think ought to happen to

the eggs of an ex battery hen, because they continue to lay for a good while

after their freed. I know in a perfect world there would be no battery hens but

obviously its not and there are. So what should someone do, who takes in

ex-batts, with the eggs? Throw them away? That to me seems also cruel, it's like

wasting something the chicken has no choice but to produce. I hate waste.

> This gives me lots to think about - I'm SO glad I found this site. As far as

the other animal products, as things wear out I've been replacing any leather

items but I simply can't afford to suddenly throw away everything that might

possibly be unethical. That would be half my shoes (including my work shoes

which I've worn for 17 years and are still going strong) belts, make-up, ALL

household cleaning products, I just can't do it all in one go. I was going to

replace them as they needed it, I'm not after anyone telling me how to do it,

but how did you guys do it? Cold turkey all in one go, or more gradually?

Finance is a serious concern for me too.

>

> Anyway, I'm sure I will shut-up shortly, it's just nice to be able to pick

other peoples brains - makes me see stuff from other points of view

>

> Bex

>

[Guest guest]

Lol, that reminds me of what my friend and I called them when we were teenagers which was hen's periods.Patricia--- On Mon, 9/7/09, heartwerk <jo.heartwork wrote:heartwerk <jo.heartwork Re: Hi, new member saying Morning! Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 11:35 PMHi BexI have a Hare Krishna friend who says they don't eat eggs because they are the chickens menses - which I guess is true. Jo , "pinkerbex" <pinkerbex wrote:>> Thanks for that, I hadn't seen that quote before. I think the only thing I will struggle around is eggs in baking, because I bake a lot and my children are still omni for a variety of reasons, although I think the eldest will become at least vegetarian at some stage, so they have eggs in their diet. > I wouldn't get rid of my hens, I love them, some are ex-battery girls and have been out of their cages for nearly two years - to look at them you would hardly know what they've been through. They don't lay anymore but they're daft as brushes and although, yes they're caged birds and they're not entirely free-range, the alternative for them and millioons like them is just too awful to think about. So when these die, as they will, I will almost certainly get more, the eggs (when I have a surplus) go to friends

and family and people at work so they're not wasted. I just wonder what people think ought to happen to the eggs of an ex battery hen, because they continue to lay for a good while after their freed. I know in a perfect world there would be no battery hens but obviously its not and there are. So what should someone do, who takes in ex-batts, with the eggs? Throw them away? That to me seems also cruel, it's like wasting something the chicken has no choice but to produce. I hate waste.> This gives me lots to think about - I'm SO glad I found this site. As far as the other animal products, as things wear out I've been replacing any leather items but I simply can't afford to suddenly throw away everything that might possibly be unethical. That would be half my shoes (including my work shoes which I've worn for 17 years and are still going strong) belts, make-up, ALL household cleaning products, I just can't do it all in one go. I was going to replace

them as they needed it, I'm not after anyone telling me how to do it, but how did you guys do it? Cold turkey all in one go, or more gradually? Finance is a serious concern for me too. > > Anyway, I'm sure I will shut-up shortly, it's just nice to be able to pick other peoples brains - makes me see stuff from other points of view> > Bex>---To send an email to -! Groups Links<*> /<*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional<*> To change

settings online go to: /join ( ID required)<*> To change settings via email: -digest -fullfeatured <*>

[Guest guest]

Hens menses, hens periods? Yup, you've convinced me! What a gross thought!!

Anyway, as I said, apart from the odd quiche and baking I don't eat many and the

reason I made the change was because I said to my Mum, " If I have all these

ethics and morals and don't live by them then they're just empty words really "

so, as it's not a huge mental effort on my part to give up milk and butter or

meat then it will do me good mentally to have to " try " at this a bit harder,

cheese will be a struggle for a while yet and the egg thing will mainly be

trying to avoid them as hidden ingredients in stuff - I had NO IDEA there was SO

much animal product in SO many things!!

 

I've only been here a day but what a fantastic place, thanks guys

 

Bex

[Guest guest]

I never thoght of it like that! Imagine having a period every day! Poor chickens!

Opalline

 

 

On Behalf Of heartwerk08 September 2009 07:35 Subject: Re: Hi, new member saying Morning!

Hi BexI have a Hare Krishna friend who says they don't eat eggs because they are the chickens menses - which I guess is true. Jo

..

 

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[Guest guest]

We rescued a whole box of chicks a few years back (in my veggie days) as they had been left in a tiny, stuffy box with no food or water at the market (on a blazing hot summer's day) and I couldn't bear to leave them there. We got them home and of 6 chicks, 4 of them died within a week. The remaining two were boys and drove us and the neighbours mad with their crowing for the next two years until they unfortunately managed to escape from their house one january night and froze to death in the hard frost. We never thought of getting rid of them though, they were pets and luckily the neighbours were understanding about the noise as we live in the countryside and quite a few people keep chickens there anyway.

 

Opalline

 

So, eggs from hens which you keep as pets, I don't see an ethical issue with (although I do wonder how many people would randomly pick a chick and be happy if it turned out to be male)...

 

"This e-mail is intended for the recipient only. If you are not theintended recipient you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print,or rely upon this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error hasmisdirected this e-mail, please notify the author by replying to this e-mail."

 

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[Guest guest]

We keep hens too, they aren't rescued ones as such (not battery, for instance) but they are 'second hand hens' - someone else didn't want them and we took them on to save them getting their necks wrung. They have free run of the garden and the lane behind my house, and a 20 foot pen when they need to be shut in.

We do use their eggs, although I don't eat them myself (was never that keen on eggs anyway) but my husband and son eat them, and we also give eggs to my parents and the next door neighbours. I figure if they're eating eggs from my well kept, happy hens then at least they are not at the supermarket buying battery eggs.

I'd keep the hens even if they didn't lay at all. They make friendly pets and they also eat all the (non meat) kitchen waste from our house that would otherwise go in the ladfill site because I don't get on well with composting and the council have decided we're only allowed to put garden waste in the green recycling bin nowadays (they used to accept uncooked, non meat kitchen waste too).

 

Now that I'm turning vegan I haven't decided what I'll do when these two hens go... I will either decide not to have any more, or I'll rehome some ex battery hens.

 

Opalline

 

 

 

On Behalf Of pinkerbexSent: 07 September 2009 19:40 Subject: Re: Hi, new member saying Morning!

Thanks for the welcome, can I ask (and I really AM being thick - I know no vegans so have no one to ask hence coming on here) what is the issue with eating eggs? I don't keep a cockerel so the eggs are unfertilised, I know people don't like caged birds (mine have the bottom of the garden to roam and trash) or is it just a blanket ban on anything animal regardless? Because I've gone off dairy because of the farming methods, same with meat, I couldn't afford organic and couldn't bring myself to eat non-organic then realised they were all taken to the same abbattoirs and subject to the same "farming" methods and so that was my decider. Because I keep my hens, and I know they're happy, healthy (and freeloading a lot of the time! lol!) I don't see an issue with it.

..

 

"This e-mail is intended for the recipient only. If you are not theintended recipient you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print,or rely upon this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error hasmisdirected this e-mail, please notify the author by replying to this e-mail."

 

"Recipients should note that all e-mail traffic on MOD systems issubject to monitoring and auditing."

[Guest guest]

I had NO IDEA there was SO much animal product in SO many things!! oh, too true, too true

best to just go slow

and learn learn learn

cheers

fraggle

"pinkerbex" Sep 8, 2009 4:17 AM Re: Hi, new member saying Morning!

 

 

 

Hens menses, hens periods? Yup, you've convinced me! What a gross thought!! Anyway, as I said, apart from the odd quiche and baking I don't eat many and the reason I made the change was because I said to my Mum, "If I have all these ethics and morals and don't live by them then they're just empty words really" so, as it's not a huge mental effort on my part to give up milk and butter or meat then it will do me good mentally to have to "try" at this a bit harder, cheese will be a struggle for a while yet and the egg thing will mainly be trying to avoid them as hidden ingredients in stuff - I had NO IDEA there was SO much animal product in SO many things!! I've only been here a day but what a fantastic place, thanks guysBex

 

 

 

 

 

"Hobbes: Do you think there's a God? Calvin: Well, SOMEBODY'S out to get me."

[Guest guest]

especially since we bred them like that..to have a period everyday.

Underwood-Fowler Cindy Sep 8, 2009 7:39 AM RE: Re: Hi, new member saying Morning!

 

 

 

 

I never thoght of it like that! Imagine having a period every day! Poor chickens!

Opalline

 

 

On Behalf Of heartwerk08 September 2009 07:35 Subject: Re: Hi, new member saying Morning!

Hi BexI have a Hare Krishna friend who says they don't eat eggs because they are the chickens menses - which I guess is true. Jo

..

 

"This e-mail is intended for the recipient only. If you are not theintended recipient you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print,or rely upon this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error hasmisdirected this e-mail, please notify the author by replying to this e-mail."

 

"Recipients should note that all e-mail traffic on MOD systems issubject to monitoring and auditing."

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Hobbes: Do you think there's a God? Calvin: Well, SOMEBODY'S out to get me."

[Guest guest]

You know, it never dawned on me until now that wild chickens wouldn't have needed to lay that many eggs and that it must have been selective breeding that made them this way. Humans have a lot to answer for, really.

 

Opalline

 

 

On Behalf Of fraggle08 September 2009 16:12 Subject: RE: Re: Hi, new member saying Morning!

especially since we bred them like that..to have a period everyday.

..

 

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"Recipients should note that all e-mail traffic on MOD systems issubject to monitoring and auditing."

[Guest guest]

My big problem is giving up butter and sour cream. I'm not a big cheese

eater, but I do like cheese enchiladas, pizza and quesadillas. I want

to find a vegan cheese , but it's very expensive, so I don't want to

waste money on something that I won't like.Patricia--- On Tue, 9/8/09, pinkerbex <pinkerbex wrote:pinkerbex <pinkerbex Re: Hi, new member saying Morning! Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 1:17 AMHens menses, hens periods? Yup, you've convinced me! What a gross thought!! Anyway, as I said, apart from the odd quiche and baking I don't eat many and the reason I made the change was because I said to my Mum, "If I have all these ethics and morals and don't live by them then they're just empty words really" so, as it's not a huge mental effort on my part to give up milk and butter or meat then

it will do me good mentally to have to "try" at this a bit harder, cheese will be a struggle for a while yet and the egg thing will mainly be trying to avoid them as hidden ingredients in stuff - I had NO IDEA there was SO much animal product in SO many things!! I've only been here a day but what a fantastic place, thanks guysBex---To send an email to -! Groups Links<*> /<*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional<*> To change settings online go to:

/join ( ID required)<*> To change settings via email: -digest -fullfeatured <*>

[Guest guest]

If anyone can find a decent hard cheese substitute I'd be very interested -

Patricia, you just named every kind of food I like!

I'm sure what I'm doing is a good thing, oh but sometimes, runny brie, melted

cheddar, I know, I know, it's terrible stuff and all the animal issues,

hopefully one day it will really turn me off, but right now......!!

 

Bex

[Guest guest]

I have a feeling that it's probably not really that, but more like ovulating.Patricia--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Underwood-Fowler Cindy <CDUFOWLER wrote:Underwood-Fowler Cindy <CDUFOWLERRE: Re: Hi, new member saying Morning! Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:39 AM

 

I never thoght of it like that! Imagine having a period every day! Poor chickens!

Opalline

 

 

On Behalf Of heartwerk08 September 2009 07:35 Subject: Re: Hi, new member saying Morning!

Hi BexI have a Hare Krishna friend who says they don't eat eggs because they are the chickens menses - which I guess is true. Jo

..

 

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[Guest guest]

I don't know a lot about chickens; they really were bred to lay an egg a day? how often would they lay one in their natural state?Patricia--- On Tue, 9/8/09, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:fraggle <EBbrewpunxRE: Re: Hi, new member saying Morning! Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 8:12 AM

 

especially since we bred them like that..to have a period everyday.

Underwood-Fowler Cindy Sep 8, 2009 7:39 AM RE: Re: Hi, new member saying Morning!

 

 

I never thoght of it like that! Imagine having a period every day! Poor chickens!

Opalline

 

 

@gro ups.com [vegan_ chat@ .com] On Behalf Of heartwerk08 September 2009 07:35@gro ups.com Re: Hi, new member saying Morning!

Hi BexI have a Hare Krishna friend who says they don't eat eggs because they are the chickens menses - which I guess is true. Jo .

 

"This e-mail is intended for the recipient only. If you are not theintended recipient you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print,or rely upon this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error hasmisdirected this e-mail, please notify the author by replying to this e-mail."

 

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"Hobbes: Do you think there's a God? Calvin: Well, SOMEBODY'S out to get me."

[Guest guest]

Not really sure, all I know is I have some Old English Game birds which are

quite an old breed (although even they have been tampered with as they were bred

for meat) and various other " pure breeds " and they lay several times a week,

but they regularly have days off and as I said they stop in Octoer and don't

start again until April each - much more how nature intended. And obviously in

the natural state they'd live with a cockerel and once they had laid a clutch of

eggs at one a day or so until they'd got between 6 and 8ish, they'd sit on them

for 21 days, hatch and then not leave the chicks for weeks, then taking another

few weeks after that to come back into lay. So to be laying and laying and

laying is not natural behaviour, it's just been bred into them so they simply

can't stop. One of my ex-batts laid an egg in the box on her way from the farm

to my house!

 

Bex

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especially since we bred them like that..to have a period everyday.

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[Guest guest]

just for the record

jungle fowl (the forebearers of chickens) breed once a year (i believe its only once), and they are polygamous harems. one male has several females in his territory, tho the hens do not generally share in sitting on eggs.

there are 4 remaining species of jungle fowl in the wild..red, green, grey, and the other one i've forgotten..........

tho i am not condoning zoos, there are jungle fowl running wild over the San Diego Zoo.

"pinkerbex" Sep 8, 2009 4:50 PM Re: Hi, new member saying Morning!

 

 

 

Not really sure, all I know is I have some Old English Game birds which are quite an old breed (although even they have been tampered with as they were bred for meat) and various other "pure breeds" and they lay several times a week, but they regularly have days off and as I said they stop in Octoer and don't start again until April each - much more how nature intended. And obviously in the natural state they'd live with a cockerel and once they had laid a clutch of eggs at one a day or so until they'd got between 6 and 8ish, they'd sit on them for 21 days, hatch and then not leave the chicks for weeks, then taking another few weeks after that to come back into lay. So to be laying and laying and laying is not natural behaviour, it's just been bred into them so they simply can't stop. One of my ex-batts laid an egg in the box on her way from the farm to my house!Bex> > > > > > > > > > > #yiv854110659 {font-family:Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:9pt;background-color:#ffffff;color:black;}> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > especially since we bred them like that..to have a period everyday.> > > > > Underwood-Fowler Cindy > Sep 8, 2009 7:39 AM > > RE: Re: Hi, new member saying Morning! > > > > > > > I never thoght of it like that! Imagine having a period every day! Poor chickens!> Opalline> > > > @gro ups.com [vegan_ chat@ .com] On Behalf Of heartwerk> 08 September 2009 07:35> @gro ups.com> Re: Hi, new member saying Morning!> > > > > Hi Bex> > I have a Hare Krishna friend who says they don't eat eggs because they are the chickens menses - which I guess is true. > > Jo > . > > > "This e-mail is intended for the recipient only. If you are not the> intended recipient you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print,> or rely upon this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has> misdirected this e-mail, please notify the author by replying to this e-mail."> > "Recipients should note that all e-mail traffic on MOD systems is> subject to monitoring and auditing."> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Hobbes: Do you think there's a God? Calvin: Well, SOMEBODY'S out to get me.">

 

 

 

 

 

"Hobbes: Do you think there's a God? Calvin: Well, SOMEBODY'S out to get me."