Guest guest Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 I really hope that you are right. I would be happy if you are. I eat a lot of tofu. I was just worried about the claims against it. , " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork wrote: > > Eastrogen is found only in the human (and animal) bodies. Phytestrogens are found in soya and lots of other plants (beans, chickpeas, broccoli etc.) > > Phytestrogens are good for everybody. > > Jo > > , " lhundrup108 " <lhundrup108@> wrote: > > > > I will check out your health link because i am interested in health. > > > > But haven't you heard of that claim before? That estrogen is found in tofu? It seems strange that I read several reports about it and you have just elimated that notion without any reference to why it might have been claimed. > > > > If you say you haven't heard of it, then I will search for some link to that information. > > > > , yarrow@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > lhundrup108 > > > Jan 20, 2010 5:10 PM > > > I have heard recently a medical report that girls in china undergo > > > puberty at an extremely early age. It may be due to the high estrogen > > > intake from tofu which they eat a lot of I guess. > > > >> > > > > > > > > > One, there's no estrogen in tofu. > > > > > > Two, the only reports of early puberty I've " heard of " were from > > > places where there was high intake of dead hormone-laced chickens. > > > > > > Really, if you're interested in health, go browse the > > > http://www.drmcdougall.com/ website. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 The claims against it are funded by the meat industry. Follow the trail, the research is there.On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, lhundrup108 <lhundrup108 wrote: I really hope that you are right. I would be happy if you are. I eat a lot of tofu. I was just worried about the claims against it. , " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork wrote: > > Eastrogen is found only in the human (and animal) bodies. Phytestrogens are found in soya and lots of other plants (beans, chickpeas, broccoli etc.) > > Phytestrogens are good for everybody. > > Jo > > , " lhundrup108 " <lhundrup108@> wrote: > > > > I will check out your health link because i am interested in health. > > > > But haven't you heard of that claim before? That estrogen is found in tofu? It seems strange that I read several reports about it and you have just elimated that notion without any reference to why it might have been claimed. > > > > If you say you haven't heard of it, then I will search for some link to that information. > > > > , yarrow@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > lhundrup108 > > > Jan 20, 2010 5:10 PM > > > I have heard recently a medical report that girls in china undergo > > > puberty at an extremely early age. It may be due to the high estrogen > > > intake from tofu which they eat a lot of I guess. > > > >> > > > > > > > > > One, there's no estrogen in tofu. > > > > > > Two, the only reports of early puberty I've " heard of " were from > > > places where there was high intake of dead hormone-laced chickens. > > > > > > Really, if you're interested in health, go browse the > > > http://www.drmcdougall.com/ website. > > > > > > --- To send an email to -! Groups Links <*> / <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: /join ( ID required) <*> To change settings via email: -digest -fullfeatured <*> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 Why does Dr. McDougall recommend using soy sparingly? Some of his ideas baffle me. I don't understand why he's so afraid of nuts, olives and avocados. I'm quite sure people have always eaten them when they could find them.Patricia--- On Thu, 1/21/10, jo.heartwork <jo.heartwork wrote:jo.heartwork <jo.heartworkRE: soy, was Re: Greetings Date: Thursday, January 21, 2010, 10:06 AM This one comes up from time to time, and basically is completely untrue. As far as hormone health is concerned, tofu is good for you. Jo On Behalf Of yarrow 21 January 2010 02:49 Re: soy, was Re: Greetings lhundrup108 Jan 20, 2010 5:10 PM I have heard recently a medical report that girls in china undergo puberty at an extremely early age. It may be due to the high estrogen intake from tofu which they eat a lot of I guess. >> One, there's no estrogen in tofu. Two, the only reports of early puberty I've "heard of" were from places where there was high intake of dead hormone-laced chickens. Really, if you're interested in health, go browse the http://www.drmcdougall.com/ website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 to not overdue the protein. we eat waaaaay too much protein in th west. it is real hard on kidneys, along with a host of others issues and, i beleive he also wants to limit "soy isolates". stay away from the soy burger except on special occassions. its the whole "eat real, whole foods, and stay away from processed items" deal. not to mention avocadoes, nuts, and seeds and generally high in fat. unless we are running marathons everyday or building bridges or the like, we don't need all the extra calories. thats all. Patricia Jan 22, 2010 3:23 PM RE: soy, was Re: Greetings Why does Dr. McDougall recommend using soy sparingly? Some of his ideas baffle me. I don't understand why he's so afraid of nuts, olives and avocados. I'm quite sure people have always eaten them when they could find them.Patricia--- On Thu, 1/21/10, jo.heartwork <jo.heartwork > wrote: jo.heartwork <jo.heartwork >RE: soy, was Re: Greetings Date: Thursday, January 21, 2010, 10:06 AM This one comes up from time to time, and basically is completely untrue. As far as hormone health is concerned, tofu is good for you. Jo On Behalf Of yarrowSent: 21 January 2010 02:49 Subject: Re: soy, was Re: Greetings lhundrup108 Jan 20, 2010 5:10 PM I have heard recently a medical report that girls in china undergo puberty at an extremely early age. It may be due to the high estrogen intake from tofu which they eat a lot of I guess.>> One, there's no estrogen in tofu. Two, the only reports of early puberty I've "heard of" were from places where there was high intake of dead hormone-laced chickens. Really, if you're interested in health, go browse the http://www.drmcdougall.com/ website. You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 At 12:23 PM -0800 1/22/10, Patricia wrote: Why does Dr. McDougall recommend using soy sparingly? Some of his ideas baffle me. I don't understand why he's so afraid of nuts, olives and avocados. I'm quite sure people have always eaten them when they could find them. >> Oh, he's written lots of books about the western way of eating, so I'll summarize in a few sentences. Dr. McDougall started practicing as a physician in Hawaii, where he saw healthy thin older plantation workers, and their younger obese unhealthy children and grandchildren. The contrast piqued his interest, since his medical education had told him that chronic diseases were often genetic. The difference was that the older generation maintained their traditional diet, while the younger folk ate the typical American diet and got all the chronic diseases -- totally contrary to what he'd learned in med school, where it's still common knowledge that what you eat doesn't matter and that changing your diet won't make a difference (and that if you tell people to change their diet, they won't comply anyway). A century or more ago, only the very rich could afford to eat animal foods on a regular basis. Regular folk ate the traditional foods of their culture, typically some combination of grains and legumes with vegetables in season, and ate the " feast " foods only a few times a year. But nowadays, many more people can afford to eat " like kings " every day, and they do (albeit much of it is mass-produced and very low quality, such as the pink-slime burgers I recently read about). But the human body was not designed to handle feast foods on a daily basis, and it breaks down with gout, cancer, heart disease, diabetes, MS, etc., on a too-rich regimen. So eventually Dr. McDougall wrote books about and developed programs for people who had typical chronic diseases and wanted to regain their health. His " health-promoting diet " is plant-based and includes up to 10 percent of calories as fat, so it eschews " feast foods, " which include all high-fat plant-source foods such as avocado, tofu, and nuts. (Tofu is about 35 percent fat.) The health-promoting diet also omits high-sugar foods such as fruit juices and sugary and fatty desserts, and allows limited amounts of fruit. If you're healthy, he says feast foods are ok in moderation but are still best reserved for special occasions rather than being part of a daily diet. For people who aren't trying to recover from chronic health problems, he recommends a " starch-based " diet, which is mostly grains, legumes, and vegetables. He has had a residential program (10 days? 21 days?) at various clinics in Calif. where he's able to get people off of diabetic, heart, etc., meds and on the way back to health. They're expensive, but all the info is in his books and on his website if you want to follow the program yourself (though to back off meds, you may need an MD). People come into these programs saying the food is tasteless, but after 5 days iirc they ask if a new cook has been hired because everything suddenly tastes great. I like to recommend his website for a few reasons 1. Lots of good, solid, well-researched information. He regularly critiques journal articles that have hit the popular press. Since so many questions that vegans get are about nutrition and health, chances are they can find a cogent article about any question they have here. Certainly all the questions and warnings I got from relatives were about health matters all those years ago, and McDougall's books were the best reference then. 2. Sure, he's making a living doing this stuff, but unlike almost all other " residential program " leaders, all the info is in his books if you want to do it yourself. I read at least the first couple books he wrote, but he's written quite a few, each one focused on a different topic. 3. He's changed and grown over the years, and seems to be constantly reevaluting what he thinks he knows for sure. Much earlier in his career, I heard him on the radio saying he didn't call himself a vegetarian because he didn't want to scare away patients, and because he ate some dead turkey every Thanksgiving. But a few years later he wasn't doing that any longer, and lately he's written about the compelling environmental reasons for going veg. 4. Back when I was involved in doing annual veg festivals, he was always willing to be a speaker, when there weren't as many authoritative voices as there are now. And iirc we didn't have a budget for paying speakers. And being a type A, he was always overscheduled and busy, but found time, and always gave a terrific talk. 5. A big part of his programs involves feeding people. Often I read that people say they can't be vegan because they don't know what to eat. So I think one of the brilliant parts of his program is that all his books include recipes (his wife does the food part) as well as how to set up a vegan kitchen, what staples to get, etc. The recipes don't win any awards from gourmets, but they tend to be easy to make, and they make it easy for people trying to recover from the MAD (modern american diet) to continue making progress. And whether his patients call themselves vegans or not, ultimately behavior counts for more than pronouncements or theories, so they're doing a lot of good for animals. Oh, and lately, he has been inviting more gourmet-type vegan cooks to his " advanced study weekends " and then posting their recipes in his newsletter. 6. He leads trips to places like Costa Rica at least once a year. Someday I'll make it to one of these. It's all vegan food, plus a great vacation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 I bought his early books and found the recipes really lacking in appeal. For myself, I will use olive oil when needed and will eat nuts and avocados because I love them and think they are beneficial foods. I couldn't stay on his bleak diet. Having said that, I do respect what he says for the most part and I'm glad he can do so much for people with chronic diseases.Patricia--- On Fri, 1/22/10, yarrow <yarrow wrote:yarrow <yarrowRE: soy, was Re: Greetings Date: Friday, January 22, 2010, 3:28 PMAt 12:23 PM -0800 1/22/10, Patricia wrote:Why does Dr. McDougall recommend using soy sparingly? Some of his ideas baffle me. I don't understand why he's so afraid of nuts, olives and avocados. I'm quite sure people have always eaten them when they could find them.>>Oh, he's written lots of books about the western way of eating, so I'll summarize in a few sentences.Dr. McDougall started practicing as a physician in Hawaii, where he saw healthy thin older plantation workers, and their younger obese unhealthy children and grandchildren. The contrast piqued his interest, since his medical education had told him that chronic diseases were often genetic. The difference was that the older generation maintained their traditional diet, while the younger folk ate the typical American diet and got all the chronic diseases -- totally contrary to what he'd learned in med school, where it's still common knowledge that what you eat doesn't matter and that changing your diet won't make a difference (and that if you tell people to change their diet, they won't comply anyway).A century or more ago, only the very rich could afford to eat animal foods on a regular basis. Regular folk ate the traditional foods of their culture, typically some combination of grains and legumes with vegetables in season, and ate the "feast" foods only a few times a year. But nowadays, many more people can afford to eat "like kings" every day, and they do (albeit much of it is mass-produced and very low quality, such as the pink-slime burgers I recently read about). But the human body was not designed to handle feast foods on a daily basis, and it breaks down with gout, cancer, heart disease, diabetes, MS, etc., on a too-rich regimen.So eventually Dr. McDougall wrote books about and developed programs for people who had typical chronic diseases and wanted to regain their health. His "health-promoting diet" is plant-based and includes up to 10 percent of calories as fat, so it eschews "feast foods," which include all high-fat plant-source foods such as avocado, tofu, and nuts. (Tofu is about 35 percent fat.) The health-promoting diet also omits high-sugar foods such as fruit juices and sugary and fatty desserts, and allows limited amounts of fruit. If you're healthy, he says feast foods are ok in moderation but are still best reserved for special occasions rather than being part of a daily diet. For people who aren't trying to recover from chronic health problems, he recommends a "starch-based" diet, which is mostly grains, legumes, and vegetables.He has had a residential program (10 days? 21 days?) at various clinics in Calif. where he's able to get people off of diabetic, heart, etc., meds and on the way back to health. They're expensive, but all the info is in his books and on his website if you want to follow the program yourself (though to back off meds, you may need an MD). People come into these programs saying the food is tasteless, but after 5 days iirc they ask if a new cook has been hired because everything suddenly tastes great.I like to recommend his website for a few reasons 1. Lots of good, solid, well-researched information. He regularly critiques journal articles that have hit the popular press. Since so many questions that vegans get are about nutrition and health, chances are they can find a cogent article about any question they have here. Certainly all the questions and warnings I got from relatives were about health matters all those years ago, and McDougall's books were the best reference then.2. Sure, he's making a living doing this stuff, but unlike almost all other "residential program" leaders, all the info is in his books if you want to do it yourself. I read at least the first couple books he wrote, but he's written quite a few, each one focused on a different topic.3. He's changed and grown over the years, and seems to be constantly reevaluting what he thinks he knows for sure. Much earlier in his career, I heard him on the radio saying he didn't call himself a vegetarian because he didn't want to scare away patients, and because he ate some dead turkey every Thanksgiving. But a few years later he wasn't doing that any longer, and lately he's written about the compelling environmental reasons for going veg.4. Back when I was involved in doing annual veg festivals, he was always willing to be a speaker, when there weren't as many authoritative voices as there are now. And iirc we didn't have a budget for paying speakers. And being a type A, he was always overscheduled and busy, but found time, and always gave a terrific talk.5. A big part of his programs involves feeding people. Often I read that people say they can't be vegan because they don't know what to eat. So I think one of the brilliant parts of his program is that all his books include recipes (his wife does the food part) as well as how to set up a vegan kitchen, what staples to get, etc. The recipes don't win any awards from gourmets, but they tend to be easy to make, and they make it easy for people trying to recover from the MAD (modern american diet) to continue making progress. And whether his patients call themselves vegans or not, ultimately behavior counts for more than pronouncements or theories, so they're doing a lot of good for animals. Oh, and lately, he has been inviting more gourmet-type vegan cooks to his "advanced study weekends" and then posting their recipes in his newsletter.6. He leads trips to places like Costa Rica at least once a year. Someday I'll make it to one of these. It's all vegan food, plus a great vacation.---To send an email to -! 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