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Kundalini - Mastery or Surrender?

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Dear Harsha,

Many thanks for allowing me to join this list.

I have spent some time reading through the old

posts and have found much of interest.

I recognize another member Anna, from a Jhana

list I'm on :-)

 

I have recently been corresponding on some lists

on the subject of Kundalini and would like to gauge

opinion here. There seems to be (broadly speaking)

two approaches to this topic - what I term the

`formless' and the `yogic'.

 

It seems that the `yoga / formless' debate centres

on a subtle, but important nuance...

 

Namely:

The mind and the prana are always conjoined. So

does the yogi `direct' the prana into a channel, or

does the prana enter the channel, of itself, when

the mind " dissolves " into samhadi?

 

On the face of it, it seems to be the same thing but

the assumptions which precede the activity are very

different. I read around this topic and don't limit

myself to Buddhist literature (my background).

 

Other traditions describe this Shakti, as an

all-pervasive universal natural energy to which

one must `surrender' and in which one's

ego-mind is dissolved in bliss.

They teach that one is not " in control " - rather

" in surrender " , whereas a Tibetan tantrika works

hard to be in control of what is always portrayed

as a technical (not emotional) process. In fact,

`mastery' is a prerequisite of success in this

system and is the benchmark of how far one

can expect to " get results " .

 

You may be familiar with what I am referring

to and perhaps to the paradox I now feel

surrounds this topic:

 

If Shakti is some kind of internal `force' within

our subtle body, then with correct instruction,

determination and application one may gain

`mastery' of it.

 

If, on the other hand, it is the energy of the

universe (and inseparably suffuses) me then

I am in no position to `control' or `command'

it - any more than a fish can command the

sea he swims in.

 

I would be very grateful for any comments

(or questions) on the above.

 

Namaste

Sand

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Dear Sand,

 

Thank you for joining and bringing your friendship here to the list. The

questions you ask have been discussed before in some fashion on this

list. In the perspective of Hatha Yoga, Kundalini Shakti is aroused

through effort (pranayama, meditation on the chakras, bandhas, mudras,

mantras, laya, and other tantric practices). The arousal of the Shakti

leads to superconscious states, refined awareness, and different levels

of Samadhi. Ultimately, Shakti merges with Shiva in the Sahasarara

(brain center) for Self-Realization. In the Jnana perspective, the

self-awareness breaks out in the open first and the Kundalini Shakti

follows. Really, our awareness in any form is a manifestation of Shakti

and the two are inseparable.

 

Sri Ramana used to say that a Jnani may not have as an aim to arouse the

Shakti, but the same thing happens when awareness turns upon itself.

Manifestations of Shakti differ depending on the person. Also people

describe experiences differently. To a Jnani, the whole body may be

flooded with bliss and the mind may be filled with supernatural

experiences, and yet it will appear to be a trivial event no different

than any other experience. Not even worth discussing as the person

remains fixed on the self-nature.

 

On the other hand, to an inexperienced person, electric jolts of the

kundalini, various physical events and mental states of samadhi will

appear to be dramatic and therefore may be described with great gusto.

 

It does not matter. Whatever one is experiencing (kundalini, samadhi,

etc.), one should remain content as the subject only, serene in pure

self-awareness without running after the object of experience. So the

whole approach of Sri Ramana is different as it questions the very

validity of experience that is transient.

 

What type of meditation and practices one is attracted to is due to the

personality and past impressions. If one is natural, any path leads back

to the Heart. The Heart is what the the ancients called the Self.

Sat-Chit-Anand which is our being and at the core of life.

 

Sri Ramana used to say that it is all an open secret.

 

Namaste and love to all

Harsha

 

naga.shrine wrote:

> Dear Harsha,

> Many thanks for allowing me to join this list.

> I have spent some time reading through the old

> posts and have found much of interest.

> I recognize another member Anna, from a Jhana

> list I'm on :-)

>

> I have recently been corresponding on some lists

> on the subject of Kundalini and would like to gauge

> opinion here. There seems to be (broadly speaking)

> two approaches to this topic - what I term the

> `formless' and the `yogic'.

>

> It seems that the `yoga / formless' debate centres

> on a subtle, but important nuance...

>

> Namely:

> The mind and the prana are always conjoined. So

> does the yogi `direct' the prana into a channel, or

> does the prana enter the channel, of itself, when

> the mind " dissolves " into samhadi?

>

> On the face of it, it seems to be the same thing but

> the assumptions which precede the activity are very

> different. I read around this topic and don't limit

> myself to Buddhist literature (my background).

>

> Other traditions describe this Shakti, as an

> all-pervasive universal natural energy to which

> one must `surrender' and in which one's

> ego-mind is dissolved in bliss.

> They teach that one is not " in control " - rather

> " in surrender " , whereas a Tibetan tantrika works

> hard to be in control of what is always portrayed

> as a technical (not emotional) process. In fact,

> `mastery' is a prerequisite of success in this

> system and is the benchmark of how far one

> can expect to " get results " .

>

> You may be familiar with what I am referring

> to and perhaps to the paradox I now feel

> surrounds this topic:

>

> If Shakti is some kind of internal `force' within

> our subtle body, then with correct instruction,

> determination and application one may gain

> `mastery' of it.

>

> If, on the other hand, it is the energy of the

> universe (and inseparably suffuses) me then

> I am in no position to `control' or `command'

> it - any more than a fish can command the

> sea he swims in.

>

> I would be very grateful for any comments

> (or questions) on the above.

>

> Namaste

> Sand

>

>

>

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On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:50:47 -0800, Harsha

wrote:

 

> What type of meditation and practices one is attracted to is due to the

> personality and past impressions. If one is natural, any path leads back

> to the Heart. The Heart is what the the ancients called the Self.

> Sat-Chit-Anand which is our being and at the core of life.

>

> Sri Ramana used to say that it is all an open secret.

>

> Namaste and love to all

> Harsha

 

As always, Harsha, you maintain the sublime focus on the core

essentials -

The heart is ever the instrument of " giving " first, and receiving as a

secondary

reflex in the presence of genuine love. A longtime friend who has

taken up the

practice of meditation again, asked me yesterday about how to handle or

approach

this state of prana enrichment and remain both focused and " without

personality "

as the being that observes is always distracted and emotionally touched

by the

sheer magnitude and enrichment of prana, let alone Samadhi -- but true

Samadhi

exists when the self is dissolved and the " I " is indistguishable from

the Everything

That Is -- so we won't worry about that condition...just the multitude

of states that lead

to it. Many schools focus on the very act of breathing -- the pure

breath of fire -- if the

practictioner is focused firmly on that, then the " I " and other

temptations at " control "

rather than release can be avoided...whereas some schools train one to

focus on a phrase,

a mandalla, an image of light to take one from the inner state of noise

and self-thought

to the next level of greater awareness and the higher energy state

necessary to contain

and channel the prana as it flows. If one thinks of the physical body

as a warm pool of

water (like a jacuzzi or spa) that is charged and heated to an intense

level of higher flow

by jets of prana, and that the consciousness or atman can at will dip

into or out of this

cosmic pool by degrees until it is " sensitized " or familiarized with

this greater, hotter

energy, I think that one can achieve a state of ease, without stress,

without judgment or

evaluation. It is easy to suggest to someone that they should just

" be " but we all have learned

that just " being " might be one of the most difficult to attain states of

all -- we are always

desiring to evaluate or " check out our own natures " while at the same

time hoping to control

or remember all the details so that we can duplicate the experience

again. We need to relax,

and remember that each experience is unique, and not subject to precise

duplication...just as

learning to ride a bicycle gets easier with each new ride, it would be

strange to suggest that

each ride was an exact duplication -- the more one rides, the easier

every subsequent ride will

be, and we can only truly enjoy that ride once we have achieved

familiarity and mastery to the

degree that riding becomes an almost automatic behavior, without fear,

without conscious effort

and where the exhiliration and joy of the ride becomes supreme over the

practised steps needed

to mount the bike or change gears.

 

Namaste & Holiday Blessings,

 

Zenbob

 

>

> naga.shrine wrote:

>> Dear Harsha,

>> Many thanks for allowing me to join this list.

>> I have spent some time reading through the old

>> posts and have found much of interest.

>> I recognize another member Anna, from a Jhana

>> list I'm on :-)

>>

>> I have recently been corresponding on some lists

>> on the subject of Kundalini and would like to gauge

>> opinion here. There seems to be (broadly speaking)

>> two approaches to this topic - what I term the

>> `formless' and the `yogic'.

>>

>> It seems that the `yoga / formless' debate centres

>> on a subtle, but important nuance...

>>

>> Namely:

>> The mind and the prana are always conjoined. So

>> does the yogi `direct' the prana into a channel, or

>> does the prana enter the channel, of itself, when

>> the mind " dissolves " into samhadi?

>>

>> On the face of it, it seems to be the same thing but

>> the assumptions which precede the activity are very

>> different. I read around this topic and don't limit

>> myself to Buddhist literature (my background).

>>

>> Other traditions describe this Shakti, as an

>> all-pervasive universal natural energy to which

>> one must `surrender' and in which one's

>> ego-mind is dissolved in bliss.

>> They teach that one is not " in control " - rather

>> " in surrender " , whereas a Tibetan tantrika works

>> hard to be in control of what is always portrayed

>> as a technical (not emotional) process. In fact,

>> `mastery' is a prerequisite of success in this

>> system and is the benchmark of how far one

>> can expect to " get results " .

>>

>> You may be familiar with what I am referring

>> to and perhaps to the paradox I now feel

>> surrounds this topic:

>>

>> If Shakti is some kind of internal `force' within

>> our subtle body, then with correct instruction,

>> determination and application one may gain

>> `mastery' of it.

>>

>> If, on the other hand, it is the energy of the

>> universe (and inseparably suffuses) me then

>> I am in no position to `control' or `command'

>> it - any more than a fish can command the

>> sea he swims in.

>>

>> I would be very grateful for any comments

>> (or questions) on the above.

>>

>> Namaste

>> Sand

 

 

 

--

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Dear Harsha and Robert,

 

Many thanks for your replies. Interesting that you

should mention Hatha Yoga, Harsha, as do this once

a week for my health. I am aware that it has some

link to energy work via pranayama but our teacher

just does a little bit now and again, mainly

concentrating on stretches, postures and things

which facilitate general wellbeing.

 

I think I naturally incline more toward your

description of a Jnani, as I prefer the relaxing

and releasing side of things, rather than trying

to put myself in control. I think it comes down

to it feeling more natural which, as you wrote,

is the path to the heart and as Robert wrote

" The heart is ever the instrument of " giving "

first, and receiving as a secondary reflex in

the presence of genuine love " . That sounds

about right.

 

I have found (within meditation) the ego to be

a kind of tension and suffering - its release

brings satisfaction, peace and insight.

 

Namaste

Sand

 

, Harsha wrote:

>

> Dear Sand,

>

> Thank you for joining and bringing your friendship here to the list. The

> questions you ask have been discussed before in some fashion on this

> list. In the perspective of Hatha Yoga, Kundalini Shakti is aroused

> through effort (pranayama, meditation on the chakras, bandhas, mudras,

> mantras, laya, and other tantric practices). The arousal of the Shakti

> leads to superconscious states, refined awareness, and different levels

> of Samadhi. Ultimately, Shakti merges with Shiva in the Sahasarara

> (brain center) for Self-Realization. In the Jnana perspective, the

> self-awareness breaks out in the open first and the Kundalini Shakti

> follows. Really, our awareness in any form is a manifestation of Shakti

> and the two are inseparable.

>

> Sri Ramana used to say that a Jnani may not have as an aim to arouse the

> Shakti, but the same thing happens when awareness turns upon itself.

> Manifestations of Shakti differ depending on the person. Also people

> describe experiences differently. To a Jnani, the whole body may be

> flooded with bliss and the mind may be filled with supernatural

> experiences, and yet it will appear to be a trivial event no different

> than any other experience. Not even worth discussing as the person

> remains fixed on the self-nature.

>

> On the other hand, to an inexperienced person, electric jolts of the

> kundalini, various physical events and mental states of samadhi will

> appear to be dramatic and therefore may be described with great gusto.

>

> It does not matter. Whatever one is experiencing (kundalini, samadhi,

> etc.), one should remain content as the subject only, serene in pure

> self-awareness without running after the object of experience. So the

> whole approach of Sri Ramana is different as it questions the very

> validity of experience that is transient.

>

> What type of meditation and practices one is attracted to is due to the

> personality and past impressions. If one is natural, any path leads back

> to the Heart. The Heart is what the the ancients called the Self.

> Sat-Chit-Anand which is our being and at the core of life.

>

> Sri Ramana used to say that it is all an open secret.

>

> Namaste and love to all

> Harsha

>

> naga.shrine wrote:

> > Dear Harsha,

> > Many thanks for allowing me to join this list.

> > I have spent some time reading through the old

> > posts and have found much of interest.

> > I recognize another member Anna, from a Jhana

> > list I'm on :-)

> >

> > I have recently been corresponding on some lists

> > on the subject of Kundalini and would like to gauge

> > opinion here. There seems to be (broadly speaking)

> > two approaches to this topic - what I term the

> > `formless' and the `yogic'.

> >

> > It seems that the `yoga / formless' debate centres

> > on a subtle, but important nuance...

> >

> > Namely:

> > The mind and the prana are always conjoined. So

> > does the yogi `direct' the prana into a channel, or

> > does the prana enter the channel, of itself, when

> > the mind " dissolves " into samhadi?

> >

> > On the face of it, it seems to be the same thing but

> > the assumptions which precede the activity are very

> > different. I read around this topic and don't limit

> > myself to Buddhist literature (my background).

> >

> > Other traditions describe this Shakti, as an

> > all-pervasive universal natural energy to which

> > one must `surrender' and in which one's

> > ego-mind is dissolved in bliss.

> > They teach that one is not " in control " - rather

> > " in surrender " , whereas a Tibetan tantrika works

> > hard to be in control of what is always portrayed

> > as a technical (not emotional) process. In fact,

> > `mastery' is a prerequisite of success in this

> > system and is the benchmark of how far one

> > can expect to " get results " .

> >

> > You may be familiar with what I am referring

> > to and perhaps to the paradox I now feel

> > surrounds this topic:

> >

> > If Shakti is some kind of internal `force' within

> > our subtle body, then with correct instruction,

> > determination and application one may gain

> > `mastery' of it.

> >

> > If, on the other hand, it is the energy of the

> > universe (and inseparably suffuses) me then

> > I am in no position to `control' or `command'

> > it - any more than a fish can command the

> > sea he swims in.

> >

> > I would be very grateful for any comments

> > (or questions) on the above.

> >

> > Namaste

> > Sand

> >

> >

> >

>

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Thank you Zenbob, these are lovely posts you have written in response

to Sand's post. Thank you, Sand, for starting this discussion.

 

Jill

On Dec 6, 2007, at 1:30 AM, Robert Kirbo wrote:

 

> On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:50:47 -0800, Harsha

> wrote:

>

>> What type of meditation and practices one is attracted to is due

>> to the

>> personality and past impressions. If one is natural, any path

>> leads back

>> to the Heart. The Heart is what the the ancients called the Self.

>> Sat-Chit-Anand which is our being and at the core of life.

>>

>> Sri Ramana used to say that it is all an open secret.

>>

>> Namaste and love to all

>> Harsha

>

> As always, Harsha, you maintain the sublime focus on the core

> essentials -

> The heart is ever the instrument of " giving " first, and

> receiving as a

> secondary

> reflex in the presence of genuine love. A longtime friend who has

> taken up the

> practice of meditation again, asked me yesterday about how to

> handle or

> approach

> this state of prana enrichment and remain both focused and

> " without

> personality "

> as the being that observes is always distracted and emotionally

> touched

> by the

> sheer magnitude and enrichment of prana, let alone Samadhi --

> but true

> Samadhi

> exists when the self is dissolved and the " I " is

> indistguishable from

> the Everything

> That Is -- so we won't worry about that condition...just the

> multitude

> of states that lead

> to it. Many schools focus on the very act of breathing -- the

> pure

> breath of fire -- if the

> practictioner is focused firmly on that, then the " I " and other

> temptations at " control "

> rather than release can be avoided...whereas some schools train

> one to

> focus on a phrase,

> a mandalla, an image of light to take one from the inner state

> of noise

> and self-thought

> to the next level of greater awareness and the higher energy state

> necessary to contain

> and channel the prana as it flows. If one thinks of the

> physical body

> as a warm pool of

> water (like a jacuzzi or spa) that is charged and heated to an

> intense

> level of higher flow

> by jets of prana, and that the consciousness or atman can at

> will dip

> into or out of this

> cosmic pool by degrees until it is " sensitized " or familiarized

> with

> this greater, hotter

> energy, I think that one can achieve a state of ease, without

> stress,

> without judgment or

> evaluation. It is easy to suggest to someone that they should

> just

> " be " but we all have learned

> that just " being " might be one of the most difficult to attain

> states of

> all -- we are always

> desiring to evaluate or " check out our own natures " while at the

> same

> time hoping to control

> or remember all the details so that we can duplicate the experience

> again. We need to relax,

> and remember that each experience is unique, and not subject to

> precise

> duplication...just as

> learning to ride a bicycle gets easier with each new ride, it

> would be

> strange to suggest that

> each ride was an exact duplication -- the more one rides, the easier

> every subsequent ride will

> be, and we can only truly enjoy that ride once we have achieved

> familiarity and mastery to the

> degree that riding becomes an almost automatic behavior, without

> fear,

> without conscious effort

> and where the exhiliration and joy of the ride becomes supreme over

> the

> practised steps needed

> to mount the bike or change gears.

>

> Namaste & Holiday Blessings,

>

> Zenbob

>

>>

>> naga.shrine wrote:

>>> Dear Harsha,

>>> Many thanks for allowing me to join this list.

>>> I have spent some time reading through the old

>>> posts and have found much of interest.

>>> I recognize another member Anna, from a Jhana

>>> list I'm on :-)

>>>

>>> I have recently been corresponding on some lists

>>> on the subject of Kundalini and would like to gauge

>>> opinion here. There seems to be (broadly speaking)

>>> two approaches to this topic - what I term the

>>> `formless' and the `yogic'.

>>>

>>> It seems that the `yoga / formless' debate centres

>>> on a subtle, but important nuance...

>>>

>>> Namely:

>>> The mind and the prana are always conjoined. So

>>> does the yogi `direct' the prana into a channel, or

>>> does the prana enter the channel, of itself, when

>>> the mind " dissolves " into samhadi?

>>>

>>> On the face of it, it seems to be the same thing but

>>> the assumptions which precede the activity are very

>>> different. I read around this topic and don't limit

>>> myself to Buddhist literature (my background).

>>>

>>> Other traditions describe this Shakti, as an

>>> all-pervasive universal natural energy to which

>>> one must `surrender' and in which one's

>>> ego-mind is dissolved in bliss.

>>> They teach that one is not " in control " - rather

>>> " in surrender " , whereas a Tibetan tantrika works

>>> hard to be in control of what is always portrayed

>>> as a technical (not emotional) process. In fact,

>>> `mastery' is a prerequisite of success in this

>>> system and is the benchmark of how far one

>>> can expect to " get results " .

>>>

>>> You may be familiar with what I am referring

>>> to and perhaps to the paradox I now feel

>>> surrounds this topic:

>>>

>>> If Shakti is some kind of internal `force' within

>>> our subtle body, then with correct instruction,

>>> determination and application one may gain

>>> `mastery' of it.

>>>

>>> If, on the other hand, it is the energy of the

>>> universe (and inseparably suffuses) me then

>>> I am in no position to `control' or `command'

>>> it - any more than a fish can command the

>>> sea he swims in.

>>>

>>> I would be very grateful for any comments

>>> (or questions) on the above.

>>>

>>> Namaste

>>> Sand

>

>

>

> --

> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

>

>

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> Most individuals do allow their artistic and creative work to be

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>

>

>

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Dear Sand,

There is a dedicated to the

discussion of Kundalini :

If minterested you may join this forum.

Regards

Venugopal

 

--- " naga.shrine " <sandmaenchen3945

wrote:

 

> Dear Harsha and Robert,

>

> Many thanks for your replies. Interesting that you

> should mention Hatha Yoga, Harsha, as do this once

> a week for my health. I am aware that it has some

> link to energy work via pranayama but our teacher

> just does a little bit now and again, mainly

> concentrating on stretches, postures and things

> which facilitate general wellbeing.

>

> I think I naturally incline more toward your

> description of a Jnani, as I prefer the relaxing

> and releasing side of things, rather than trying

> to put myself in control. I think it comes down

> to it feeling more natural which, as you wrote,

> is the path to the heart and as Robert wrote

> " The heart is ever the instrument of " giving "

> first, and receiving as a secondary reflex in

> the presence of genuine love " . That sounds

> about right.

>

> I have found (within meditation) the ego to be

> a kind of tension and suffering - its release

> brings satisfaction, peace and insight.

>

> Namaste

> Sand

>

> , Harsha

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sand,

> >

> > Thank you for joining and bringing your friendship

> here to the list. The

> > questions you ask have been discussed before in

> some fashion on this

> > list. In the perspective of Hatha Yoga, Kundalini

> Shakti is aroused

> > through effort (pranayama, meditation on the

> chakras, bandhas, mudras,

> > mantras, laya, and other tantric practices). The

> arousal of the Shakti

> > leads to superconscious states, refined awareness,

> and different levels

> > of Samadhi. Ultimately, Shakti merges with Shiva

> in the Sahasarara

> > (brain center) for Self-Realization. In the Jnana

> perspective, the

> > self-awareness breaks out in the open first and

> the Kundalini Shakti

> > follows. Really, our awareness in any form is a

> manifestation of Shakti

> > and the two are inseparable.

> >

> > Sri Ramana used to say that a Jnani may not have

> as an aim to arouse the

> > Shakti, but the same thing happens when awareness

> turns upon itself.

> > Manifestations of Shakti differ depending on the

> person. Also people

> > describe experiences differently. To a Jnani, the

> whole body may be

> > flooded with bliss and the mind may be filled with

> supernatural

> > experiences, and yet it will appear to be a

> trivial event no different

> > than any other experience. Not even worth

> discussing as the person

> > remains fixed on the self-nature.

> >

> > On the other hand, to an inexperienced person,

> electric jolts of the

> > kundalini, various physical events and mental

> states of samadhi will

> > appear to be dramatic and therefore may be

> described with great gusto.

> >

> > It does not matter. Whatever one is experiencing

> (kundalini, samadhi,

> > etc.), one should remain content as the subject

> only, serene in pure

> > self-awareness without running after the object of

> experience. So the

> > whole approach of Sri Ramana is different as it

> questions the very

> > validity of experience that is transient.

> >

> > What type of meditation and practices one is

> attracted to is due to the

> > personality and past impressions. If one is

> natural, any path leads back

> > to the Heart. The Heart is what the the ancients

> called the Self.

> > Sat-Chit-Anand which is our being and at the core

> of life.

> >

> > Sri Ramana used to say that it is all an open

> secret.

> >

> > Namaste and love to all

> > Harsha

> >

> > naga.shrine wrote:

> > > Dear Harsha,

> > > Many thanks for allowing me to join this list.

> > > I have spent some time reading through the old

> > > posts and have found much of interest.

> > > I recognize another member Anna, from a Jhana

> > > list I'm on :-)

> > >

> > > I have recently been corresponding on some lists

>

> > > on the subject of Kundalini and would like to

> gauge

> > > opinion here. There seems to be (broadly

> speaking)

> > > two approaches to this topic - what I term the

> > > `formless' and the `yogic'.

> > >

> > > It seems that the `yoga / formless' debate

> centres

> > > on a subtle, but important nuance...

> > >

> > > Namely:

> > > The mind and the prana are always conjoined. So

> > > does the yogi `direct' the prana into a channel,

> or

> > > does the prana enter the channel, of itself,

> when

> > > the mind " dissolves " into samhadi?

> > >

> > > On the face of it, it seems to be the same thing

> but

> > > the assumptions which precede the activity are

> very

> > > different. I read around this topic and don't

> limit

> > > myself to Buddhist literature (my background).

> > >

> > > Other traditions describe this Shakti, as an

> > > all-pervasive universal natural energy to which

> > > one must `surrender' and in which one's

> > > ego-mind is dissolved in bliss.

> > > They teach that one is not " in control " - rather

>

> > > " in surrender " , whereas a Tibetan tantrika works

>

> > > hard to be in control of what is always

> portrayed

> > > as a technical (not emotional) process. In fact,

>

> > > `mastery' is a prerequisite of success in this

> > > system and is the benchmark of how far one

> > > can expect to " get results " .

> > >

> > > You may be familiar with what I am referring

> > > to and perhaps to the paradox I now feel

> > > surrounds this topic:

> > >

> > > If Shakti is some kind of internal `force'

> within

> > > our subtle body, then with correct instruction,

> > > determination and application one may gain

> > > `mastery' of it.

> > >

> > > If, on the other hand, it is the energy of the

> > > universe (and inseparably suffuses) me then

> > > I am in no position to `control' or `command'

> > > it - any more than a fish can command the

> > > sea he swims in.

> > >

> > > I would be very grateful for any comments

> > > (or questions) on the above.

> > >

> > > Namaste

> > > Sand

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

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Dear Venugopal,

Thanks for that. I've submitted to join.

Namaste

Sand

 

, Venugopal AK <akvenugopal wrote:

>

> Dear Sand,

> There is a dedicated to the

> discussion of Kundalini :

>

> If minterested you may join this forum.

> Regards

> Venugopal

>

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