Guest guest Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Hi Ryan, Thanks for this. It is extremely useful. However I sometimes try to practice this (being silent). But i feel i go in loops, I very much " try " to keep silent. after I read Nisargadatta's message, evening " trying " is a function of mind. so now i " try to give up trying " which again i feel is a function of mind. and hence how ever i try (or " be " ) to keep silent, it is still trying (or " being " ). I could not truly be silent. Can some one help me on this please. Also i have another question: At other times (when doing other activities like driving, walking, eating, etc) there are these thoughts (thinking) of past actions or actions that should have been performed so as to gain something or to avoid something. (literally like I should have done like this, I will do like this, or about other events). These thoughts are based and come verbally like I am conversing with my self inside verbally. I also sometimes in the same way pray to god inside (like " oh god please ..... " or " oh god why did you do like this... " ) I become occupied with these at times that I lose cognizance of things happing outside and even miss out on details while conversing with others. I am slowing beginning to understand that something is not right here. From long time i used to consider this as a good thing as I am in discussion with my self planning things out. but it pains as it becomes uncontrolled and intense. Are these termed thoughts? if i have to give up these then i have to give up myself (i feel the person who converses and says " i will do this " is strongly me)? If so then how is chanting done? it is verbally inside. how is thinking done for making day to day decisions. is it verbally or with non-verbally? How is it then keeping silent done? Thanks in advance. sunil RYAN RAMKISSOON <rvr2000tt wrote: It is a fact that man then first loses consciousness of the feet and then of the lower part of his body until at last he is aware only within his head. This is the crucial moment when the world which ordinarily filters through the five senses into consciousness,disappears. Only after this does he suddenly lapse into sleep. It is the pause here for a fraction of a second which has to be detected by extreme vigilance. The attention must be kept from straying and held so acutely that the bed,the room and even the body become dulled to the point of obliteration.The student should try to overcome the all round loss of consciousness,to conquer the overpowering swoon which comes with sleep. He cannot prevent sleep for Nature's habit must have her course,but he can prevent the fall into ignorance of what is happening to him during the passage into the new state. HE must try to keep his awareness and to mremain in it even whilst his body and thinking faculty are completely at rest. He must observe himself and be more than watchful against the tremulous coming of sleep in that delectable borderland through which he passes,in those fluttering fractions of a moment which time the passage from gross wakefulness to profound slumber. If this is the crucial moment when a man will lose this tiny seed of awareness and fall into sleep as almost all men do,it is also the critical moment when through advanced yoga practice he could enter into the Light itself.Those alone who taken the trouble to practise these exercises are best entitled to say what practical possibilities they contain or whether they will " work " or not. But this pause between 2 states technically termed " the neutral point " ,is as brief as a flash of lightning.If he succeeds in seizing and keeping hold of it,he may pass from this stage into the pure Mind-the background of all his conscious thought moments-and retain it as a mere glimmer of utter emptiness throughout the night. .....The fourth state will come upon him unawares,that is he will not be conscious of his actual entry into it. One moment he will be in the ordinary wakeful state and the next moment he will be in the transcendental one.The process of transition will take place in the sphere outside his own consciousness.He will then discover himself to be in a new world of being.The momentary consciousness has become a footprint which has led him to the hidden self whence it originated. Whosoever can succeed in this practice will find that the sublime beatitude of the transcendental consciousness will be intermittently present throughout the most feverish activities of the day and full so throughout the slumber of the night. The curious thing about the hidden observer is that it is very much awake when we are very much asleep,as it is perfectly conscious when we are utterly unconscious. It is the " I " which is ever aware and consequently our real self. It hovers in a sort of watchful self-contemplation,never losing hold on itself and consequently never falling into the oblivion of ordinary sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Dear Sunil, Some thoughts: If you are trying to be silent, there is still the 'you' that is trying. Ramana might have suggested that you look in to the " I " that is trying to be silent. You might ask, " For whom is this silence? " Investigation of your sense of identity is what is called for. The Silence that is, as Ramana said, 'where no " I " arises " comes though inquiry. Who knows the silence? " Who am I? " Also you talk about the sense that " I feel the person who converses and says " i will do this " is strongly me. " It is the body that converse (the body as the organ of action, etc.) Are you this body? Ramana said that misidentification with the body is the chief misidentification. This misidentification can be be uprooted, also through identity. Who knows the body? Does it know itself? Does the sense of " I " rise from the body, or is it projected onto the body? " Who am I? " You see here the problem with the sense of identity. As you see yourself, so you see the world. Imagine yourself to be a body or a doer, then the world is filled with other bodies and doers. So inquire. And in inquiry look for what is always there. If there is something that comes and goes, can that be who you are? Your sense ob being has not changed through any of this. " Who am I? " Om Arunachala, Richard , Sunil Babu <sunilbabu03 wrote: > > Hi Ryan, > > Thanks for this. It is extremely useful. However I sometimes try to practice this (being silent). But i feel i go in loops, I very much " try " to keep silent. after I read Nisargadatta's message, evening " trying " is a function of mind. so now i " try to give up trying " which again i feel is a function of mind. and hence how ever i try (or " be " ) to keep silent, it is still trying (or " being " ). I could not truly be silent. > Can some one help me on this please. > > > Also i have another question: > At other times (when doing other activities like driving, walking, eating, etc) there are these thoughts (thinking) of past actions or actions that should have been performed so as to gain something or to avoid something. (literally like I should have done like this, I will do like this, or about other events). These thoughts are based and come verbally like I am conversing with my self inside verbally. I also sometimes in the same way pray to god inside (like " oh god please ...... " or " oh god why did you do like this... " ) > > I become occupied with these at times that I lose cognizance of things happing outside and even miss out on details while conversing with others. I am slowing beginning to understand that something is not right here. From long time i used to consider this as a good thing as I am in discussion with my self planning things out. but it pains as it becomes uncontrolled and intense. > > Are these termed thoughts? > if i have to give up these then i have to give up myself (i feel the person who converses and says " i will do this " is strongly me)? If so then how is chanting done? it is verbally inside. > how is thinking done for making day to day decisions. is it verbally or with non-verbally? > How is it then keeping silent done? > > > Thanks in advance. > sunil > > > RYAN RAMKISSOON <rvr2000tt wrote: It is a fact that man then first loses consciousness of the feet and then of the lower part of his body until at last he is aware only within his head. > > This is the crucial moment when the world which ordinarily filters through the five senses into consciousness,disappears. Only after this does he suddenly lapse into sleep. It is the pause here for a fraction of a second which has to be detected by extreme vigilance. > > The attention must be kept from straying and held so acutely that the bed,the room and even the body become dulled to the point of obliteration.The student should try to overcome the all round loss of consciousness,to conquer the overpowering swoon which comes with sleep. > > He cannot prevent sleep for Nature's habit must have her course,but he can prevent the fall into ignorance of what is happening to him during the passage into the new state. HE must try to keep his awareness and to mremain in it even whilst his body and thinking faculty are completely at rest. > > He must observe himself and be more than watchful against the tremulous coming of sleep in that delectable borderland through which he passes,in those fluttering fractions of a moment which time the passage from gross wakefulness to profound slumber. > > If this is the crucial moment when a man will lose this tiny seed of awareness and fall into sleep as almost all men do,it is also the critical moment when through advanced yoga practice he could enter into the Light itself.Those alone who taken the trouble to practise these exercises are best entitled to say what practical possibilities they contain or whether they will " work " or not. > > But this pause between 2 states technically termed " the neutral point " ,is as brief as a flash of lightning.If he succeeds in seizing and keeping hold of it,he may pass from this stage into the pure Mind-the background of all his conscious thought moments-and retain it as a mere glimmer of utter emptiness throughout the night. > > .....The fourth state will come upon him unawares,that is he will not be conscious of his actual entry into it. One moment he will be in the ordinary wakeful state and the next moment he will be in the transcendental one.The process of transition will take place in the sphere outside his own consciousness.He will then discover himself to be in a new world of being.The momentary consciousness has become a footprint which has led him to the hidden self whence it originated. > > Whosoever can succeed in this practice will find that the sublime beatitude of the transcendental consciousness will be intermittently present throughout the most feverish activities of the day and full so throughout the slumber of the night. > > The curious thing about the hidden observer is that it is very much awake when we are very much asleep,as it is perfectly conscious when we are utterly unconscious. > > It is the " I " which is ever aware and consequently our real self. > > It hovers in a sort of watchful self-contemplation,never losing hold on itself and consequently never falling into the oblivion of ordinary sleep. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Hello Sunil Comment is between lines , Sunil Babu <sunilbabu03 wrote: > > Hi Ryan, > > Thanks for this. It is extremely useful. However I sometimes try to practice this (being silent). But i feel i go in loops, I very much " try " to keep silent. after I read Nisargadatta's message, evening " trying " is a function of mind. so now i " try to give up trying " which again i feel is a function of mind. and hence how ever i try (or " be " ) to keep silent, it is still trying (or " being " ). I could not truly be silent. > Can some one help me on this please. - - -- ---- ---- --- --- mourad: Be as you are. Do not try anything. Live your life as you are. It is enough that your heart has changed and you are following the spiritual path. Things will fall into order bi themselves. --- ---- ---- --- > Also i have another question: > At other times (when doing other activities like driving, walking, eating, etc) there are these thoughts (thinking) of past actions or actions that should have been performed so as to gain something or to avoid something. (literally like I should have done like this, I will do like this, or about other events). These thoughts are based and come verbally like I am conversing with my self inside verbally. I also sometimes in the same way pray to god inside (like " oh god please ..... " or " oh god why did you do like this... " ) > > I become occupied with these at times that I lose cognizance of things happing outside and even miss out on details while conversing with others. I am slowing beginning to understand that something is not right here. From long time i used to consider this as a good thing as I am in discussion with my self planning things out. but it pains as it becomes uncontrolled and intense. > > Are these termed thoughts? -- -- - --- ----- ---- ------- ----- mourad: This internal dialogue. Everyone has it, it is not peculiar to you alone. This inner dialogue is noise -at least that is how I term it. Be attentive to phenomenal appearances. I remember, when I was invited outside with people; in the begining I used to look and be with the paintings on the walls, the designs of the carpets, the curtains, the shapes of the drinking glasses, the serving dishes.Later on I began to look at the guests themselves, their faces, the watches they were wearing, thei jewlarym, their suits and dresses. Still later on, I saw the expressions of the faces and then I satrted to recognize, if the expression is genuine of faked. To be attentive to external phenomena was my solution. ---- --- ---- ---------- ---- ------ > if i have to give up these then i have to give up myself (i feel the person who converses and says " i will do this " is strongly me)? If so then how is chanting done? it is verbally inside. > how is thinking done for making day to day decisions. is it verbally or with non-verbally? > How is it then keeping silent done? ---- ---- ---- ----- -- ------ - mourad:At the end of the journey, everuone of us will give himself up. It is not a decision, it occurs on its own. This happens when you see clearly that there is no use of " me " . Therfore, holding on to myself becomes a burden,accordingly it is given up, it drops away. I remember reading Sri Ramana saying: " Gently, Gently, persude yourself to give up " . ---- ----- ------- ------- ---- --- Thank you friend. mourad > Thanks in advance. > sunil > > > RYAN RAMKISSOON <rvr2000tt wrote: It is a fact that man then first loses consciousness of the feet and then of the lower part of his body until at last he is aware only within his head. > > This is the crucial moment when the world which ordinarily filters through the five senses into consciousness,disappears. Only after this does he suddenly lapse into sleep. It is the pause here for a fraction of a second which has to be detected by extreme vigilance. > > The attention must be kept from straying and held so acutely that the bed,the room and even the body become dulled to the point of obliteration.The student should try to overcome the all round loss of consciousness,to conquer the overpowering swoon which comes with sleep. > > He cannot prevent sleep for Nature's habit must have her course,but he can prevent the fall into ignorance of what is happening to him during the passage into the new state. HE must try to keep his awareness and to mremain in it even whilst his body and thinking faculty are completely at rest. > > He must observe himself and be more than watchful against the tremulous coming of sleep in that delectable borderland through which he passes,in those fluttering fractions of a moment which time the passage from gross wakefulness to profound slumber. > > If this is the crucial moment when a man will lose this tiny seed of awareness and fall into sleep as almost all men do,it is also the critical moment when through advanced yoga practice he could enter into the Light itself.Those alone who taken the trouble to practise these exercises are best entitled to say what practical possibilities they contain or whether they will " work " or not. > > But this pause between 2 states technically termed " the neutral point " ,is as brief as a flash of lightning.If he succeeds in seizing and keeping hold of it,he may pass from this stage into the pure Mind-the background of all his conscious thought moments-and retain it as a mere glimmer of utter emptiness throughout the night. > > .....The fourth state will come upon him unawares,that is he will not be conscious of his actual entry into it. One moment he will be in the ordinary wakeful state and the next moment he will be in the transcendental one.The process of transition will take place in the sphere outside his own consciousness.He will then discover himself to be in a new world of being.The momentary consciousness has become a footprint which has led him to the hidden self whence it originated. > > Whosoever can succeed in this practice will find that the sublime beatitude of the transcendental consciousness will be intermittently present throughout the most feverish activities of the day and full so throughout the slumber of the night. > > The curious thing about the hidden observer is that it is very much awake when we are very much asleep,as it is perfectly conscious when we are utterly unconscious. > > It is the " I " which is ever aware and consequently our real self. > > It hovers in a sort of watchful self-contemplation,never losing hold on itself and consequently never falling into the oblivion of ordinary sleep. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Dear Mourad, Thanks a lot for these pointers. I will try to incorporate them and try my best to get away from me. Sunil mourad <mourad_shamel wrote: Hello Sunil Comment is between lines , Sunil Babu <sunilbabu03 wrote: > > Hi Ryan, > > Thanks for this. It is extremely useful. However I sometimes try to practice this (being silent). But i feel i go in loops, I very much " try " to keep silent. after I read Nisargadatta's message, evening " trying " is a function of mind. so now i " try to give up trying " which again i feel is a function of mind. and hence how ever i try (or " be " ) to keep silent, it is still trying (or " being " ). I could not truly be silent. > Can some one help me on this please. - - -- ---- ---- --- --- mourad: Be as you are. Do not try anything. Live your life as you are. It is enough that your heart has changed and you are following the spiritual path. Things will fall into order bi themselves. --- ---- ---- --- > Also i have another question: > At other times (when doing other activities like driving, walking, eating, etc) there are these thoughts (thinking) of past actions or actions that should have been performed so as to gain something or to avoid something. (literally like I should have done like this, I will do like this, or about other events). These thoughts are based and come verbally like I am conversing with my self inside verbally. I also sometimes in the same way pray to god inside (like " oh god please ..... " or " oh god why did you do like this... " ) > > I become occupied with these at times that I lose cognizance of things happing outside and even miss out on details while conversing with others. I am slowing beginning to understand that something is not right here. From long time i used to consider this as a good thing as I am in discussion with my self planning things out. but it pains as it becomes uncontrolled and intense. > > Are these termed thoughts? -- -- - --- ----- ---- ------- ----- mourad: This internal dialogue. Everyone has it, it is not peculiar to you alone. This inner dialogue is noise -at least that is how I term it. Be attentive to phenomenal appearances. I remember, when I was invited outside with people; in the begining I used to look and be with the paintings on the walls, the designs of the carpets, the curtains, the shapes of the drinking glasses, the serving dishes.Later on I began to look at the guests themselves, their faces, the watches they were wearing, thei jewlarym, their suits and dresses. Still later on, I saw the expressions of the faces and then I satrted to recognize, if the expression is genuine of faked. To be attentive to external phenomena was my solution. ---- --- ---- ---------- ---- ------ > if i have to give up these then i have to give up myself (i feel the person who converses and says " i will do this " is strongly me)? If so then how is chanting done? it is verbally inside. > how is thinking done for making day to day decisions. is it verbally or with non-verbally? > How is it then keeping silent done? ---- ---- ---- ----- -- ------ - mourad:At the end of the journey, everuone of us will give himself up. It is not a decision, it occurs on its own. This happens when you see clearly that there is no use of " me " . Therfore, holding on to myself becomes a burden,accordingly it is given up, it drops away. I remember reading Sri Ramana saying: " Gently, Gently, persude yourself to give up " . ---- ----- ------- ------- ---- --- Thank you friend. mourad > Thanks in advance. > sunil > > > RYAN RAMKISSOON <rvr2000tt wrote: It is a fact that man then first loses consciousness of the feet and then of the lower part of his body until at last he is aware only within his head. > > This is the crucial moment when the world which ordinarily filters through the five senses into consciousness,disappears. Only after this does he suddenly lapse into sleep. It is the pause here for a fraction of a second which has to be detected by extreme vigilance. > > The attention must be kept from straying and held so acutely that the bed,the room and even the body become dulled to the point of obliteration.The student should try to overcome the all round loss of consciousness,to conquer the overpowering swoon which comes with sleep. > > He cannot prevent sleep for Nature's habit must have her course,but he can prevent the fall into ignorance of what is happening to him during the passage into the new state. HE must try to keep his awareness and to mremain in it even whilst his body and thinking faculty are completely at rest. > > He must observe himself and be more than watchful against the tremulous coming of sleep in that delectable borderland through which he passes,in those fluttering fractions of a moment which time the passage from gross wakefulness to profound slumber. > > If this is the crucial moment when a man will lose this tiny seed of awareness and fall into sleep as almost all men do,it is also the critical moment when through advanced yoga practice he could enter into the Light itself.Those alone who taken the trouble to practise these exercises are best entitled to say what practical possibilities they contain or whether they will " work " or not. > > But this pause between 2 states technically termed " the neutral point " ,is as brief as a flash of lightning.If he succeeds in seizing and keeping hold of it,he may pass from this stage into the pure Mind-the background of all his conscious thought moments-and retain it as a mere glimmer of utter emptiness throughout the night. > > .....The fourth state will come upon him unawares,that is he will not be conscious of his actual entry into it. One moment he will be in the ordinary wakeful state and the next moment he will be in the transcendental one.The process of transition will take place in the sphere outside his own consciousness.He will then discover himself to be in a new world of being.The momentary consciousness has become a footprint which has led him to the hidden self whence it originated. > > Whosoever can succeed in this practice will find that the sublime beatitude of the transcendental consciousness will be intermittently present throughout the most feverish activities of the day and full so throughout the slumber of the night. > > The curious thing about the hidden observer is that it is very much awake when we are very much asleep,as it is perfectly conscious when we are utterly unconscious. > > It is the " I " which is ever aware and consequently our real self. > > It hovers in a sort of watchful self-contemplation,never losing hold on itself and consequently never falling into the oblivion of ordinary sleep. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Dear Sunil You are welcomed. We are all here to help each other. We can only offer an honest to God advice -nothing more. We can also hope for blessings to shower and guide us. Man has to walk the path, with the guiding Grace. mourad , Sunil Babu <sunilbabu03 wrote: > > Dear Mourad, > > Thanks a lot for these pointers. I will try to incorporate them and try my best to get away from me. > > Sunil > > mourad <mourad_shamel wrote: Hello Sunil > Comment is between lines > > , Sunil Babu <sunilbabu03@> > wrote: > > > > Hi Ryan, > > > > Thanks for this. It is extremely useful. However I sometimes try > to practice this (being silent). But i feel i go in loops, I very > much " try " to keep silent. after I read Nisargadatta's message, > evening " trying " is a function of mind. so now i " try to give up > trying " which again i feel is a function of mind. and hence how ever > i try (or " be " ) to keep silent, it is still trying (or " being " ). I > could not truly be silent. > > Can some one help me on this please. > - - -- ---- ---- --- --- > mourad: Be as you are. Do not try anything. Live your life as you > are. It is enough that your heart has changed and you are following > the spiritual path. Things will fall into order bi themselves. > --- ---- ---- --- > > > > Also i have another question: > > At other times (when doing other activities like driving, walking, > eating, etc) there are these thoughts (thinking) of past actions or > actions that should have been performed so as to gain something or > to avoid something. (literally like I should have done like this, I > will do like this, or about other events). These thoughts are based > and come verbally like I am conversing with my self inside verbally. > I also sometimes in the same way pray to god inside (like " oh god > please ..... " or " oh god why did you do like this... " ) > > > > I become occupied with these at times that I lose cognizance of > things happing outside and even miss out on details while conversing > with others. I am slowing beginning to understand that something is > not right here. From long time i used to consider this as a good > thing as I am in discussion with my self planning things out. but it > pains as it becomes uncontrolled and intense. > > > > Are these termed thoughts? > -- -- - --- ----- ---- ------- ----- > mourad: This internal dialogue. Everyone has it, it is not peculiar > to you alone. This inner dialogue is noise -at least that is how I > term it. Be attentive to phenomenal appearances. I remember, when I > was invited outside with people; in the begining I used to look and > be with the paintings on the walls, the designs of the carpets, the > curtains, the shapes of the drinking glasses, the serving > dishes.Later on I began to look at the guests themselves, their > faces, the watches they were wearing, thei jewlarym, their suits and > dresses. Still later on, I saw the expressions of the faces and then > I satrted to recognize, if the expression is genuine of faked. > To be attentive to external phenomena was my solution. > ---- --- ---- ---------- ---- ----- - > > > if i have to give up these then i have to give up myself (i feel > the person who converses and says " i will do this " is strongly me)? > If so then how is chanting done? it is verbally inside. > > how is thinking done for making day to day decisions. is it > verbally or with non-verbally? > > How is it then keeping silent done? > ---- ---- ---- ----- -- ------ - > mourad:At the end of the journey, everuone of us will give himself > up. It is not a decision, it occurs on its own. This happens when > you see clearly that there is no use of " me " . Therfore, holding on > to myself becomes a burden,accordingly it is given up, it drops > away. I remember reading Sri Ramana saying: " Gently, Gently, persude > yourself to give up " . > ---- ----- ------- ------- ---- --- > Thank you friend. > mourad > > > Thanks in advance. > > sunil > > > > > > RYAN RAMKISSOON <rvr2000tt@> wrote: > It is a fact that man then first loses consciousness of the feet and > then of the lower part of his body until at last he is aware only > within his head. > > > > This is the crucial moment when the world which ordinarily > filters through the five senses into consciousness,disappears. Only > after this does he suddenly lapse into sleep. It is the pause here > for a fraction of a second which has to be detected by extreme > vigilance. > > > > The attention must be kept from straying and held so acutely that > the bed,the room and even the body become dulled to the point of > obliteration.The student should try to overcome the all round loss > of consciousness,to conquer the overpowering swoon which comes with > sleep. > > > > He cannot prevent sleep for Nature's habit must have her > course,but he can prevent the fall into ignorance of what is > happening to him during the passage into the new state. HE must try > to keep his awareness and to mremain in it even whilst his body and > thinking faculty are completely at rest. > > > > He must observe himself and be more than watchful against the > tremulous coming of sleep in that delectable borderland through > which he passes,in those fluttering fractions of a moment which time > the passage from gross wakefulness to profound slumber. > > > > If this is the crucial moment when a man will lose this tiny seed > of awareness and fall into sleep as almost all men do,it is also the > critical moment when through advanced yoga practice he could enter > into the Light itself.Those alone who taken the trouble to practise > these exercises are best entitled to say what practical > possibilities they contain or whether they will " work " or not. > > > > But this pause between 2 states technically termed " the neutral > point " ,is as brief as a flash of lightning.If he succeeds in seizing > and keeping hold of it,he may pass from this stage into the pure > Mind-the background of all his conscious thought moments-and retain > it as a mere glimmer of utter emptiness throughout the night. > > > > .....The fourth state will come upon him unawares,that is he will > not be conscious of his actual entry into it. One moment he will be > in the ordinary wakeful state and the next moment he will be in the > transcendental one.The process of transition will take place in the > sphere outside his own consciousness.He will then discover himself > to be in a new world of being.The momentary consciousness has become > a footprint which has led him to the hidden self whence it > originated. > > > > Whosoever can succeed in this practice will find that the sublime > beatitude of the transcendental consciousness will be intermittently > present throughout the most feverish activities of the day and full > so throughout the slumber of the night. > > > > The curious thing about the hidden observer is that it is very > much awake when we are very much asleep,as it is perfectly conscious > when we are utterly unconscious. > > > > It is the " I " which is ever aware and consequently our real self. > > > > It hovers in a sort of watchful self-contemplation,never losing > hold on itself and consequently never falling into the oblivion of > ordinary sleep. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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