Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 " After I had been here a day or two Bhagavan asked somebody to give me a copy of Who am I? and told me to read it. Here is contained the essence of his teaching, though given by him as a youth of only 21 it never needed to be changed. Bhagavan might talk all sorts of philosophy and explain systems in answer to questions, but his teaching and instruction for Sadhana was all contained in Who am I?. Everything else, as far as he was concerned, was padding or expansion for those who were not satisfied with the simplicity and straightforward explanation of this little book. He had always insisted that the book should be sold so cheaply that it was available to the poorest and originally it cost no more than half an anna. This wonderful little book comprises one of the first set of instructions given by Bhagavan in about I902 in writing as he was not speaking at the time. They are direct from his own experience and in no way influenced by his reading of various Upanishads and other sacred writings which were afterwards brought to him to explain. " (A Sadhu's Reminiscences of Ramana Maharshi, p.13-14). Dear Harsha You have written (Message #45655) " So what is the problem? And if there is a problem, what is the solution? " Perhaps I may answer with A few notes: * When Michael purchased his first copy of `Who am I?' in the Ashram bookstall, the cost was less than a rupee. A quick dip into his library shows Truth Revealed (1950): 12 Annas or Two Shillings and Threepence. A more recent pocket copy of Who am I? (2002) in Tamil cost Rs.2/-, half a dime perhaps, and in the same year in English it retailed at Rs.5/-, a little over a dime. * Now if we look at the cost of a retreat with SAT, where nome purportedly `explains' Self-Inquiry, we see that in March we would need to have paid $295.00. If we wished to add retreats in May and in August, entitled `Self-Knowledge' and `Self-Realization' each will cost another $295.00. So the set thus far brings our bill to * $885.00, and if we wish to round it off in November, we can have, for dessert, the * `Truth Revealed' Retreat for an extra $850. That adds up to big bucks, to listen to man on a podium `explaining' something which is already very clear, and to expound on knowledge which a poor man, even in this day and age, won't have to spend more than a dollar or two on. Now I have have a big problem with that, Harsha, a problem when I (and several others) see your list being used as a conduit for commercial trade. The writing is on the wall. -Michael- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 My Dearest Michael Cape-Meadows: I embrace you as a brother devotee of Bhagavan Ramana and will ponder over everything you said and other Bhagavan devotees have said to me privately and publicly with care. I am already familiar with the issues you raise. Give me more time because sometimes I don't know what to do. Other Sangha members can reflect on what you have said as well. Meanwhile, I ask you to keep in mind that devotees of Bhagavan can at times have somewhat different views on things. We have to rely on the collective wisdom of the Sangha. Let us see if we can somehow reconcile on this issue. Namaste and love to all Harsha On Behalf Of MIchael Cape-Meadows Monday, May 19, 2008 10:16 AM " Who am I? " for the Poorest One " After I had been here a day or two Bhagavan asked somebody to give me a copy of Who am I? and told me to read it. Here is contained the essence of his teaching, though given by him as a youth of only 21 it never needed to be changed. Bhagavan might talk all sorts of philosophy and explain systems in answer to questions, but his teaching and instruction for Sadhana was all contained in Who am I?. Everything else, as far as he was concerned, was padding or expansion for those who were not satisfied with the simplicity and straightforward explanation of this little book. He had always insisted that the book should be sold so cheaply that it was available to the poorest and originally it cost no more than half an anna. This wonderful little book comprises one of the first set of instructions given by Bhagavan in about I902 in writing as he was not speaking at the time. They are direct from his own experience and in no way influenced by his reading of various Upanishads and other sacred writings which were afterwards brought to him to explain. " (A Sadhu's Reminiscences of Ramana Maharshi, p.13-14). Dear Harsha You have written (Message #45655) " So what is the problem? And if there is a problem, what is the solution? " Perhaps I may answer with A few notes: * When Michael purchased his first copy of `Who am I?' in the Ashram bookstall, the cost was less than a rupee. A quick dip into his library shows Truth Revealed (1950): 12 Annas or Two Shillings and Threepence. A more recent pocket copy of Who am I? (2002) in Tamil cost Rs.2/-, half a dime perhaps, and in the same year in English it retailed at Rs.5/-, a little over a dime. * Now if we look at the cost of a retreat with SAT, where nome purportedly `explains' Self-Inquiry, we see that in March we would need to have paid $295.00. If we wished to add retreats in May and in August, entitled `Self-Knowledge' and `Self-Realization' each will cost another $295.00. So the set thus far brings our bill to * $885.00, and if we wish to round it off in November, we can have, for dessert, the * `Truth Revealed' Retreat for an extra $850. That adds up to big bucks, to listen to man on a podium `explaining' something which is already very clear, and to expound on knowledge which a poor man, even in this day and age, won't have to spend more than a dollar or two on. Now I have have a big problem with that, Harsha, a problem when I (and several others) see your list being used as a conduit for commercial trade. The writing is on the wall. -Michael- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Dear Michael Cape-Meadows: Do not be afraid. There is no way to harm the Self. Nothing exists except for the Self? Why worry? Can you help the Self? Can you harm it? No! You can neither help nor harm the Self, and neither can anyone else. Don't worry. Be happy. , " MIchael Cape-Meadows " <ramanatmosphere wrote: > > > " After I had been here a day or two Bhagavan asked somebody to give > me a copy of Who am I? and told me to read it. Here is contained the > essence of his teaching, though given by him as a youth of only 21 it > never needed to be changed. Bhagavan might talk all sorts of philosophy > and explain systems in answer to questions, but his teaching and > instruction for Sadhana was all contained in Who am I?. Everything else, > as far as he was concerned, was padding or expansion for those who were > not satisfied with the simplicity and straightforward explanation of > this little book. He had always insisted that the book should be sold so > cheaply that it was available to the poorest and originally it cost no > more than half an anna. This wonderful little book comprises one of the > first set of instructions given by Bhagavan in about I902 in writing as > he was not speaking at the time. They are direct from his own experience > and in no way influenced by his reading of various Upanishads and other > sacred writings which were afterwards brought to him to explain. " (A > Sadhu's Reminiscences of Ramana Maharshi, p.13-14). > > > Dear Harsha > > You have written (Message #45655) " So what is the problem? And if > there is a problem, what is the solution? " > > Perhaps I may answer with > > A few notes: > > * > When Michael purchased his first copy of `Who am I?' in the > Ashram bookstall, the cost was less than a rupee. A quick dip into his > library shows Truth Revealed (1950): 12 Annas or Two Shillings and > Threepence. A more recent pocket copy of Who am I? (2002) in Tamil cost > Rs.2/-, half a dime perhaps, and in the same year in English it > retailed at Rs.5/-, a little over a dime. > > * > Now if we look at the cost of a retreat with SAT, where nome > purportedly `explains' Self-Inquiry, we see that in March we > would need to have paid $295.00. If we wished to add retreats in May > and in August, entitled `Self-Knowledge' and > `Self-Realization' each will cost another $295.00. So the set > thus far brings our bill to > > * > $885.00, and if we wish to round it off in November, we can have, for > dessert, the > > * > `Truth Revealed' Retreat for an extra $850. > > That adds up to big bucks, to listen to man on a podium > `explaining' something which is already very clear, and to > expound on knowledge which a poor man, even in this day and age, > won't have to spend more than a dollar or two on. > > Now I have have a big problem with that, Harsha, a problem when I (and > several others) see your list being used as a conduit for commercial > trade. > > The writing is on the wall. > > -Michael- > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 It is not fear, Michael Bowes. It is disgust. Disgust which turns to sadness. Sadness at the forked tongues of members who say one thing in public and quite another in private. Sadness at all the sycophancy. Sadness that an individual uses the location of his residence (Tiruvannamalai) as a conduit for self-promotion. Sadness that Harsha seems to promote this in labelling a 'valued member'. Currying favour, and promoting poetry and essays have become the norm now. There are members of this group who are long-term residents of Tiruvannamalai, members who do not use their pin code to elevate their assumed 'spiritual status'. Sadness that members label themselves, label this group as 'blessed'. Such things are not for us to say! Members can pat themselves (and each other) on the back all they want. There are always those who are not fooled by such mental genuflections! Deep rifts have been caused by the promotion of SAT on the list in this way. Old friendships have been rent asunder. This is known as a fact. True devotees have let. The sadness is too deep for words to express. Kind regards Michael C-M. , " Michael Bowes " <aumshanti wrote: > > Dear Michael Cape-Meadows: > > Do not be afraid. There is no way to harm the Self. Nothing exists > except for the Self? Why worry? > > Can you help the Self? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 , " MIchael Cape-Meadows " <ramanatmosphere wrote: > > It is not fear, Michael Bowes. > It is disgust. > Disgust which turns to sadness. > Sadness at the forked tongues of members who say one thing in public > and quite another in private. > Sadness at all the sycophancy. > Sadness that an individual uses the location of his residence > (Tiruvannamalai) as a conduit for self-promotion. > Sadness that Harsha seems to promote this in labelling a 'valued > member'. Currying favour, and promoting poetry and essays have become > the norm now. > There are members of this group who are long-term residents of > Tiruvannamalai, members who do not use their pin code to elevate their > assumed 'spiritual status'. Sadness that members label themselves, > label this group as 'blessed'. Such things are not for us to say! > Members can pat themselves (and each other) on the back all they want. > There are always those who are not fooled by such mental genuflections! > Deep rifts have been caused by the promotion of SAT on the list in > this way. > Old friendships have been rent asunder. > This is known as a fact. > True devotees have let. > The sadness is too deep for words to express. > Kind regards > Michael C-M. dear michael(s), friends and companions, i concur and agree with your above observations. btw, the subject has been dealt with already here some time ago (Message #45333) /message/45333 respectfully, yosy ps. i have to admit that, though i like and appreciate richard's decision to retire in tiru, and have no doubt about his honest intents, i see no need to follow the results of his gullibility. thus, i delete without reading most of richard's posts as well... > , " Michael Bowes " <aumshanti@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Michael Cape-Meadows: > > > > Do not be afraid. There is no way to harm the Self. Nothing exists > > except for the Self? Why worry? > > > > Can you help the Self? ) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 michael, as you are, you see the world. you perceive everything the way you are wired and you wont be able to perceive it any other way. its the same with everyone of us. we are all wired differently and we perceive a same situation differently. intellectually, it will not be possible to set things right because what is perceived as right is not The TRUTH and its the tracing back of EACH and EVERY thought to the Source to Realize The TRUTH that the sadhana is all about... why dont each of us reflect / meditate and trace the Source of EACH of those thoughts that michael has poured out and find out who is it that wants to know... yellaam Bhagavanukku samarpanam anbudan MIchael Cape-Meadows <ramanatmosphere wrote: It is not fear, Michael Bowes. It is disgust. Disgust which turns to sadness. Sadness at the forked tongues of members who say one thing in public and quite another in private. Sadness at all the sycophancy. Sadness that an individual uses the location of his residence (Tiruvannamalai) as a conduit for self-promotion. Sadness that Harsha seems to promote this in labelling a 'valued member'. Currying favour, and promoting poetry and essays have become the norm now. There are members of this group who are long-term residents of Tiruvannamalai, members who do not use their pin code to elevate their assumed 'spiritual status'. Sadness that members label themselves, label this group as 'blessed'. Such things are not for us to say! Members can pat themselves (and each other) on the back all they want. There are always those who are not fooled by such mental genuflections! Deep rifts have been caused by the promotion of SAT on the list in this way. Old friendships have been rent asunder. This is known as a fact. True devotees have let. The sadness is too deep for words to express. Kind regards Michael C-M. , " Michael Bowes " <aumshanti wrote: > > Dear Michael Cape-Meadows: > > Do not be afraid. There is no way to harm the Self. Nothing exists > except for the Self? Why worry? > > Can you help the Self? TAT TVAM ASI ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 My dearest Michael Cape-Meadows: You need not feel disgusted or sad, although I cannot prevent you from having those feelings. I appreciate what you are saying but respectfully must differ with you on several points. 1. Poetry and essays have always been welcome on this list ever since it started. The list is modeled after Sri Ramanaashram where Sri Ramana enjoyed poetry and sometimes wrote it himself. So literary works, art, etc. will always be welcome on the list and on the blog. 2. We also engage in good humor at times. Laughter is part of being human. Sri Ramana could be very funny at times. We carry on this tradition. 3. Richard has always been a valued member just as all members are valued here. Richard did not become more valued when he went to Tiru. He has posted some beautiful accounts of his visit with pictures and many people including me like them very much. I find certain comments about Richard to be unfair. That is my view based on my interactions with Richard. 4. Richard's writing about Nome has come under question by some Bhagavan devotees as it is seen as promotion of a commercial interest. Certain members have stated this publicly and privately to me. OK, we can all think about that. I myself have indicated at different times that Sri Ramana is the SatGuru and for me at least no middle men are needed. However, each to his/her own. Now keep in mind that many sangha members have teachers. Are we going to protest every time a sangha member mentions their teacher with love and affection? That does not seem right to me. 5. When you say Michael that " Sadness is too deep to express " , I don't know what to say. Anyway, let us give it some thought and time and perhaps we can come up with a course of action that is based on Ahimsa. However, the nature of this group is not going to change. We have always been a liberal, tolerant, and diverse group accepting many different orientations of the members. It has always been like that. That is how the great and compassionate Sage of Arunachala, Sri Bhagavan Ramana was. The life of Bhagavan grounded in love for devotees and seekers of truth is also part of his teaching to us. Namaste and love to all Harsha On Behalf Of MIchael Cape-Meadows Tuesday, May 20, 2008 12:53 AM To Re: " Who am I? " for the Poorest One It is not fear, Michael Bowes. It is disgust. Disgust which turns to sadness. Sadness at the forked tongues of members who say one thing in public and quite another in private. Sadness at all the sycophancy. Sadness that an individual uses the location of his residence (Tiruvannamalai) as a conduit for self-promotion. Sadness that Harsha seems to promote this in labelling a 'valued member'. Currying favour, and promoting poetry and essays have become the norm now. There are members of this group who are long-term residents of Tiruvannamalai, members who do not use their pin code to elevate their assumed 'spiritual status'. Sadness that members label themselves, label this group as 'blessed'. Such things are not for us to say! Members can pat themselves (and each other) on the back all they want. There are always those who are not fooled by such mental genuflections! Deep rifts have been caused by the promotion of SAT on the list in this way. Old friendships have been rent asunder. This is known as a fact. True devotees have let. The sadness is too deep for words to express. Kind regards Michael C-M. , " Michael Bowes " <aumshanti wrote: > > Dear Michael Cape-Meadows: > > Do not be afraid. There is no way to harm the Self. Nothing exists > except for the Self? Why worry? > > Can you help the Self? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Dear Mango Tree, Thank you for your recent posts. I believe the recent impression created that deep rifts exist among membership does not reflect the reality. While a few sincere Bhagavan devotees do appear upset, the vast majority on this list are carrying on as usual. Ultimately, Bhagavan's teachings ask us to turn within and inquire from where our thoughts arise. The real work is always within us. Namaste and love to all Harsha On Behalf Of mango tree Tuesday, May 20, 2008 2:32 AM Re: Re: " Who am I? " for the Poorest One michael, as you are, you see the world. you perceive everything the way you are wired and you wont be able to perceive it any other way. its the same with everyone of us. we are all wired differently and we perceive a same situation differently. intellectually, it will not be possible to set things right because what is perceived as right is not The TRUTH and its the tracing back of EACH and EVERY thought to the Source to Realize The TRUTH that the sadhana is all about... why dont each of us reflect / meditate and trace the Source of EACH of those thoughts that michael has poured out and find out who is it that wants to know... yellaam Bhagavanukku samarpanam anbudan MIchael Cape-Meadows <ramanatmosphere wrote: It is not fear, Michael Bowes. It is disgust. Disgust which turns to sadness. Sadness at the forked tongues of members who say one thing in public and quite another in private. Sadness at all the sycophancy. Sadness that an individual uses the location of his residence (Tiruvannamalai) as a conduit for self-promotion. Sadness that Harsha seems to promote this in labelling a 'valued member'. Currying favour, and promoting poetry and essays have become the norm now. There are members of this group who are long-term residents of Tiruvannamalai, members who do not use their pin code to elevate their assumed 'spiritual status'. Sadness that members label themselves, label this group as 'blessed'. Such things are not for us to say! Members can pat themselves (and each other) on the back all they want. There are always those who are not fooled by such mental genuflections! Deep rifts have been caused by the promotion of SAT on the list in this way. Old friendships have been rent asunder. This is known as a fact. True devotees have let. The sadness is too deep for words to express. Kind regards Michael C-M. , " Michael Bowes " <aumshanti wrote: > > Dear Michael Cape-Meadows: > > Do not be afraid. There is no way to harm the Self. Nothing exists > except for the Self? Why worry? > > Can you help the Self? TAT TVAM ASI ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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