Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Dear all, I had recently had a shock looking at the SAT-site and seeing the prices for the retreats by Nome (see the homepage of SAT and go into the registration-formular: http://www.satramana.org/html/retreats.htm. Make the test! How do you feel? You can have the first-hand teaching of Ramana for a few dollars if you get a Ramana-book from the bookshop - or even for free if downloaded from the Ramanashram-site. This money-rising is an unethical behavour of a teacher - I can't help it ... whatever may be told to justify this behavour. It is a rule in all religions and spiritual paths with says: do not go somewhere, where a teacher looks for money. Ramana was completely against money-collecting - and he was very unhappy when devotees collected money for the construction of the temple of the mother. Here life and teaching is in one line - with Nome this seems not the case. I have come across several spirital teachers during my life - though fortunately in the Christian area and not in the neo-Advaita-scene! I must say - at least they did their best to live what they taught. When I came across Ramana for the first time, I first had a look at his life - then only at his teaching. If his life would have been questionable, Ramana would have been unacceptible here;) But fortunately and how wonderful - there is no difference with him between life and teaching. This is very! rare indeed. With Nome and many other new-age- and neo-advaita-teachers this seems not to be the case. They do not meet the necessary ethical requirements. Nome is questionable in many aspects, also if Richard helds his flag very high and posts a smooth article on the blog, which hides many details in a spiritual cloak. If one digs deeper, one finds .... better not to tell. It makes one furious. This is not! a matter of different taste or views - it is a matter of truth and honesty! I came to know that there are Ramana-devotees, who are very unhappy about this all here in this group, which calls itself a Ramana- group. That's one thing. The other is - that ... if one goes through the mailings, one wonders what it is all about. Is it about Ramana and understanding his teaching and doing sadhana or rather about self-proof and back- slapping. I don't know. I came here again to speak it out openly - whatever the reactions may be ... and not only discuss the matter with Harsha, as I was a member on this list over many years. The list was often out of topic in the past as well - but it seems things have worsened and some sincere devotees are confused up to the core. This is a matter of concern. What I really would ask you is to be silent a bit and think it over honestly and sincerely ... Are we not using Ramanas name for our little things ... for our ideas ... for our egos ... for feeling comfortable in a spiritual atmosphere or whatever ...? So many misuse Ramana nowadays and all say: " Yes, that's true - but it is not me!! " Gabriele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Dear Sadhaka The teachings of the spirit are for the Love of God, not anything else. mourad , " sadhaka60 " <sadhaka60 wrote: > > Dear all, > > I had recently had a shock looking at the SAT-site > and seeing the prices for the retreats by Nome (see the homepage of > SAT and go into the registration-formular: > http://www.satramana.org/html/retreats.htm. > Make the test! How do you feel? > > You can have the first-hand teaching of Ramana for a few dollars if > you get a Ramana-book from the bookshop - or even for free if > downloaded from the Ramanashram-site. This money-rising is an > unethical behavour of a teacher - I can't help it ... whatever may > be told to justify this behavour. > It is a rule in all religions and spiritual paths with says: do not > go somewhere, where a teacher looks for money. > > Ramana was completely against money-collecting - and he was very > unhappy when devotees collected money for the construction of the > temple of the mother. Here life and teaching is in one line - with > Nome this seems not the case. > > I have come across several spirital teachers during my life - though > fortunately in the Christian area and not in the neo-Advaita- scene! > I must say - at least they did their best to live what they taught. > When I came across Ramana for the first time, I first had a look at > his life - then only at his teaching. If his life would have been > questionable, Ramana would have been unacceptible here;) But > fortunately and how wonderful - there is no difference with him > between life and teaching. This is very! rare indeed. > > With Nome and many other new-age- and neo-advaita-teachers this > seems not to be the case. They do not meet the necessary ethical > requirements. Nome is questionable in many aspects, also if Richard > helds his flag very high and posts a smooth article on the blog, > which hides many details in a spiritual cloak. If one digs deeper, > one finds .... better not to tell. It makes one furious. > This is not! a matter of different taste or views - it is a matter > of truth and honesty! > > I came to know that there are Ramana-devotees, who are very unhappy > about this all here in this group, which calls itself a Ramana- > group. That's one thing. > > The other is - that ... if one goes through the mailings, one > wonders what it is all about. Is it about Ramana and understanding > his teaching and doing sadhana or rather about self-proof and back- > slapping. I don't know. > I came here again to speak it out openly - whatever the reactions > may be ... and not only discuss the matter with Harsha, as I was a > member on this list over many years. The list was often out of topic > in the past as well - but it seems things have worsened and some > sincere devotees are confused up to the core. This is a matter of > concern. > > What I really would ask you is to be silent a bit and think it over > honestly and sincerely ... > Are we not using Ramanas name for our little things ... for our > ideas ... for our egos ... for feeling comfortable in a spiritual > atmosphere or whatever ...? > > So many misuse Ramana nowadays and all say: " Yes, that's true - but > it is not me!! " > > Gabriele > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 the truth is free but the people who help point the way need to pay rent ,eat food ,pay for a phone,computer,doctors bills etc.pretty basic stuff of relative reality.ones cynacism or anger against particular teachers neednt blind one to basic common sense of existence in america 2008 mourad <mourad_shamel wrote: Dear Sadhaka The teachings of the spirit are for the Love of God, not anything else. mourad , " sadhaka60 " <sadhaka60 wrote: > > Dear all, > > I had recently had a shock looking at the SAT-site > and seeing the prices for the retreats by Nome (see the homepage of > SAT and go into the registration-formular: > http://www.satramana.org/html/retreats.htm. > Make the test! How do you feel? > > You can have the first-hand teaching of Ramana for a few dollars if > you get a Ramana-book from the bookshop - or even for free if > downloaded from the Ramanashram-site. This money-rising is an > unethical behavour of a teacher - I can't help it ... whatever may > be told to justify this behavour. > It is a rule in all religions and spiritual paths with says: do not > go somewhere, where a teacher looks for money. > > Ramana was completely against money-collecting - and he was very > unhappy when devotees collected money for the construction of the > temple of the mother. Here life and teaching is in one line - with > Nome this seems not the case. > > I have come across several spirital teachers during my life - though > fortunately in the Christian area and not in the neo-Advaita- scene! > I must say - at least they did their best to live what they taught. > When I came across Ramana for the first time, I first had a look at > his life - then only at his teaching. If his life would have been > questionable, Ramana would have been unacceptible here;) But > fortunately and how wonderful - there is no difference with him > between life and teaching. This is very! rare indeed. > > With Nome and many other new-age- and neo-advaita-teachers this > seems not to be the case. They do not meet the necessary ethical > requirements. Nome is questionable in many aspects, also if Richard > helds his flag very high and posts a smooth article on the blog, > which hides many details in a spiritual cloak. If one digs deeper, > one finds .... better not to tell. It makes one furious. > This is not! a matter of different taste or views - it is a matter > of truth and honesty! > > I came to know that there are Ramana-devotees, who are very unhappy > about this all here in this group, which calls itself a Ramana- > group. That's one thing. > > The other is - that ... if one goes through the mailings, one > wonders what it is all about. Is it about Ramana and understanding > his teaching and doing sadhana or rather about self-proof and back- > slapping. I don't know. > I came here again to speak it out openly - whatever the reactions > may be ... and not only discuss the matter with Harsha, as I was a > member on this list over many years. The list was often out of topic > in the past as well - but it seems things have worsened and some > sincere devotees are confused up to the core. This is a matter of > concern. > > What I really would ask you is to be silent a bit and think it over > honestly and sincerely ... > Are we not using Ramanas name for our little things ... for our > ideas ... for our egos ... for feeling comfortable in a spiritual > atmosphere or whatever ...? > > So many misuse Ramana nowadays and all say: " Yes, that's true - but > it is not me!! " > > Gabriele > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 , Jonah Bekerman <jmarkb wrote: > > the truth is free but the people who help point the way need to pay rent ,eat food ,pay for a phone,computer,doctors bills etc.pretty basic stuff of relative reality.ones cynacism or anger against particular teachers neednt blind one to basic common sense of existence in america 2008 The way we look at this in the West is influenced by the church/ state financing and the burden on the individual. (Making us ignore certain facts of universal wealth) I did pay my teacher by the hour for private basic yoga training. Without other means it was the only way to live in the capital as a teacher. Some of her pupils arrived with a lot of problems and the energy put into solving this was of course not paid for at all. She did move to the countryside and would let me take the bill when buying food only available in the city. And later I was only allowed to wash the dishes after dinner. After traveling in India and comparing the Ashrams to the teaching of individuals she had a number of reasons for not teaching groups. And she did not write a single word as far as I know as she believed everything not 'tailored to fit' the individual/ situation was already written. As far as I have heard the Eastern tradition has often been that a person either must work his way ( chop wood, carry water ) or enter a monastery/ ashram maybe later in life with some cash. The masters need for cars and luxury seems to be a new thing?, why I don't know. ( By the way has there been any Buddhist monasteries with Rolls Royce's? ) I do believe we need several kinds of institutions, the difference when needing a financing is how it is done. If presenting something as non profit, there should be no need to hide the fact that something does cost money at the last page. And I have seen examples of showing the details of where the profit goes. I read somewhere about a Chinese emperor buying a sutra from India with a whole land, but now almost all the printed words are distributed for free. So today one extra pearl cannot justify charging much beyond the printing cost, but what goes on between teacher and student is a different thing. So the challenge is perhaps to make this visible in the marketing/ web site and consider the whole approach or level of activity if it can not be done. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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