Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Dear All I wonder if any one could direct me to where I can find the cinema screen analogy of Sri Ramana Maharshi. It seems that I dont know in what book. If any one could be kind enough to either send it to me -in Sri Ramana's own words- or tell me where I can find it. God Bless mourad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Dear Mourad, If you have David Godman's 'BE AS YOU ARE' you will find 4 references in the index, from different sources. If you haven't got this book then write again and I will check where they come from. All best wishes and warm regards, Alan --- On Fri, 23/5/08, mourad <mourad_shamel wrote: mourad <mourad_shamel The cinema screen analogy Friday, 23 May, 2008, 9:12 PM Dear All I wonder if any one could direct me to where I can find the cinema screen analogy of Sri Ramana Maharshi. It seems that I dont know in what book. If any one could be kind enough to either send it to me -in Sri Ramana's own words- or tell me where I can find it. God Bless mourad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 > mourad <mourad_shamel > The cinema screen analogy > Dear All > > I wonder if any one could direct me to where I can find the cinema > screen analogy of Sri Ramana Maharshi. It seems that I dont know in what > book. If any one could be kind enough to either send it to me -in Sri > Ramana's own words- or tell me where I can find it. > Hello Mourad, Check the Collected Works page 59, number 13.: 13. How can there be a connection between the Self which is pure knowledge and the triple factors which are relative knowledge? This is, in a way, like the working of a cinema (see next page). Just as the pictures appear on the screen as long as the film throws the shadows through the lens, so the phenomenal world will continue to appear to the individual in the waking and dream states as long as there are latent mental impressions. Just as the lens magnifies the tiny specks on the film to a huge size and as a number of pictures are shown in a second, so the mind enlarges the sprout-like tendencies into treelike thoughts and shows in a second innumerable worlds. Again, just as there is only the light of the lamp visible when there is no film, so the Self alone shines without the triple factors when the mental concepts in the form of tendencies are absent in the states of deep sleep, swoon and samadhi. Just as the lamp illumines the lens, etc., while remaining unaffected, the Self illumines the ego (Chidabhasa), etc., while remaining unaffected. The next page comes with a graphic not possible to paste in this email, but you can download the whole book in PDF format for free at: http://www.arunachala.org/bookstall/books/translations/ Yours in Bhagavan, Mouna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Forgot to say, it's part of Upadesa Manjari or Spiritual Instruction. > Check the Collected Works page 59, number 13.: > > 13. How can there be a connection between the Self which > is pure knowledge and the triple factors which are > relative knowledge? > This is, in a way, like the working of a cinema (see next page). > Just as the pictures appear on the screen as long as the > film throws the shadows through the lens, so the phenomenal > world will continue to appear to the individual in the waking > and dream states as long as there are latent mental > impressions. Just as the lens magnifies the tiny specks on > the film to a huge size and as a number of pictures are shown > in a second, so the mind enlarges the sprout-like tendencies > into treelike thoughts and shows in a second innumerable > worlds. Again, just as there is only the light of the lamp > visible when there is no film, so the Self alone shines without > the triple factors when the mental concepts in the form of > tendencies are absent in the states of deep sleep, swoon and > samadhi. Just as the lamp illumines the lens, etc., while > remaining unaffected, the Self illumines the ego > (Chidabhasa), etc., while remaining unaffected. > > > The next page comes with a graphic not possible to paste in this > email, but you can download the whole book in PDF format for free at: > > http://www.arunachala.org/bookstall/books/translations/ > > Yours in Bhagavan, > Mouna > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Dear Mourad, Sri Ramana used the screen analogy a number of times. The reason for that is that silent movies were just starting to be made at that time. When Sri Ramana watched a movie he noticed the projector, the screen, images on the screen etc., and so at times framed the discussion in those terms. You can find these types of analogies in the " Talks " and " Day by Day " . I am not much into models and diagrams but there are plenty of these in the " Talks " which I have in front of me right now. Also, I should mention that Sri Ramana wrote the short book Self-Enquiry in 1901. It was his first work and has a nice model showing the " relationship " between Self and the waking state. If you get the " Collected Works of Ramana Maharshi " all of original works of the Sage of Arunachala are there. People who came to Sri Ramana were of many different types. As a loving mother adapts herself to each child, Sri Ramana adapted to the nature of each devotee. With intellectuals he was an intellectual and the knower of Vedas. Even great scholars and Shankracharyas came to have their doubts cleared. With Yogis, he was the Supreme Yogi, and explained clearly the workings of Shakti, its rising, and its consummation in the Heart. Some were so fortunate that they needed no explanation. A single look was enough. There were some great saints who having seen Ramana once were unable to leave his company for their whole life. To a friend, Ramana was a friend. Have you read the stories? To devotees, he was and remains their protector. What can one truly say about Ramana? His life was his teaching. Beyond life and death, time and space, he points to our own Heart. I am not attracted to any analogies or models or diagrams. Intellectual discussions hold little interest for me. Of course, I enjoy these at times. But the teaching is so utterly simple. Simply to turn within, see our nature as awareness by the power of awareness, embrace it with all one's heart and Be. Namaste and love to all Harsha On Behalf Of mourad Friday, May 23, 2008 4:12 PM The cinema screen analogy Dear All I wonder if any one could direct me to where I can find the cinema screen analogy of Sri Ramana Maharshi. It seems that I dont know in what book. If any one could be kind enough to either send it to me -in Sri Ramana's own words- or tell me where I can find it. God Bless mourad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 " Since we see the world (it follows that) there does exist a source of it, a sole Reality transcending (world and mind), of whose power all this is a becoming; this is beyond dispute. This cinema-show of names and forms, their sustaining screen, the light (of Consciousness), and the spectator - all these four are only that Supreme Being, who is the Real Self within the Heart. " Verse 1 of Ulladhu Narpadhu (or Forty Verses on Reality) Sri Lakshmana Sarma's rendering as found in " Revelation " _____ On Behalf Of mourad 23 May 2008 21:12 The cinema screen analogy Dear All I wonder if any one could direct me to where I can find the cinema screen analogy of Sri Ramana Maharshi. It seems that I dont know in what book. If any one could be kind enough to either send it to me -in Sri Ramana's own words- or tell me where I can find it. God Bless mourad .. <http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=73173/grpspId=1705060955/msgId=4 5766/stime=1211573525/nc1=5008815/nc2=5202321/nc3=5170410> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2008 Report Share Posted May 24, 2008 , " Peter " <not_2 wrote: > > > " Since we see the world (it follows that) there does exist a source of it, a > sole Reality transcending (world and mind), of whose power all this is a > becoming; this is beyond dispute. This cinema-show of names and forms, > their sustaining screen, the light (of Consciousness), and the spectator - > all these four are only that Supreme Being, who is the Real Self within the > Heart. " > > Verse 1 of Ulladhu Narpadhu (or Forty Verses on Reality) > Sri Lakshmana Sarma's rendering as found in " Revelation " I like that verse a lot, Peter... can I add an addendum from Nisargadatta (my own Guru)? This is one of my favorite passages from " I Am That " : Questioner: Can there be life without consciousness? Nisargadatta Maharaj: No, nor consciousness without life. They are both one. But in reality only the Ultimate is. The rest is a matter of name and form. And as long as you cling to the idea that only what has name and shape exists, the Supreme will appear to you nonexisting. When you understand that names and shapes are hollow shells without any content whatsoever, and what is real is nameless and formless, pure energy of life and light of consciousness, you will be at peace - - immersed in the deep silence of reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2008 Report Share Posted May 24, 2008 Dear Alan, Harsha, Mouna and All Thank you, I found it. God Bless mourad , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > Dear Mourad, > > If you have David Godman's 'BE AS YOU ARE' you will find 4 references in the index, from different sources. If you haven't got this book then write again and I will check where they come from. > > All best wishes and warm regards, > > Alan > > --- On Fri, 23/5/08, mourad mourad_shamel wrote: > > mourad mourad_shamel > The cinema screen analogy > > Friday, 23 May, 2008, 9:12 PM > Dear All > > I wonder if any one could direct me to where I can find the cinema > screen analogy of Sri Ramana Maharshi. It seems that I dont know in what > book. If any one could be kind enough to either send it to me -in Sri > Ramana's own words- or tell me where I can find it. > > God Bless > > mourad > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2008 Report Share Posted May 24, 2008 Dear Peter Good to see a reply relating to K Lakshmana Sarma's Revelation. Lakshmana Sarma spent at least years under the direct tutelage of Sri Bhagavan, who showed him the working of the Tamil metre in Ulladu Narpadu. Lakshmana Sarma has also written " Sri Ramanaparavidyopanishad " (The Supreme Science as Taught by Sri Bhagavan), which was composed by him in the decade directly after Sri Ramana's Mahasamadhi. I am sure you will have a copy. If not, you will want to acquire a copy. It is a wonderful work, full of illumination, and it contains the essence of many of the Verses used in " The Forty " as well as other Verses in Sanskrit from The Garland of Guru's Sayings. Translated by Samvid, the book was published by Sri Ramanasramam in 2006. Priced Rs.100.00/-. Sincerely Michael Cape-Meadows , " Peter " <not_2 wrote: > > > " Since we see the world (it follows that) there does exist a source of it, a > sole Reality transcending (world and mind), of whose power all this is a > becoming; this is beyond dispute. This cinema-show of names and forms, > their sustaining screen, the light (of Consciousness), and the spectator - > all these four are only that Supreme Being, who is the Real Self within the > Heart. " > > Verse 1 of Ulladhu Narpadhu (or Forty Verses on Reality) > Sri Lakshmana Sarma's rendering as found in " Revelation " > > _____ > > > On Behalf Of mourad > 23 May 2008 21:12 > > The cinema screen analogy > > > > > Dear All > > I wonder if any one could direct me to where I can find the cinema > screen analogy of Sri Ramana Maharshi. It seems that I dont know in what > book. If any one could be kind enough to either send it to me -in Sri > Ramana's own words- or tell me where I can find it. > > God Bless > > mourad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2008 Report Share Posted May 24, 2008 Indeed, the screen analogy is very often used by Ramana. It was one of his favourites. There are many other analogies as well - so for example the potter's wheel and the electric fan. Perhaps shall come back to it later. It always reminds me on the way Jesus taught with concrete examples. The examples are common and well understood by each one. In Letter 96 by Suri Nagamma he tells, that if Shankara would already have known the cinema, he would have used this as an example as well One of the examples in in " Five Verses on the Self " : 3. The body is within the Self. And yet One thinks one is inside the inert body, Like some spectator who supposes That the screen on which the picture is thrown Is within the picture. (Five Verses on the Self in Collected Works, Verse 3) Gabriele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2008 Report Share Posted May 24, 2008 Dear Michael, Yes, I do think Lakshmana Sarma's rendition of The Forty Verses is so very valuable - for all the reasons you give. As it happens, some time ago I spent a few years trying to obtain all the English translations of Forty Verses that were available. I collected very many - perhaps all of them - by different people who came into contact with Bhagavan, and a few from more recent translators of the Tamil. For my own satisfaction I even attempted to write a set of my own - based on all these versions - which brought together what I felt most reflected the teachings of Sri Ramana. In the end I noticed that I continually came back to Lakshmana Sarma's version as the one that I personally find the most satisfying and have used this version ever since. It was only after I settled on this rendering that I discovered the story of how Sri Ramana gave Lakshmana individual instruction on the meaning of the verses. Thank you for the suggestion - I did indeed obtain a copy of " Sri Ramanaparavidyopanishad " when it was published. It seems to me that it is an expanded teaching of the Forty Verses. How fortunate we are to have it available. best wishes, Peter _____ On Behalf Of MIchael Cape-Meadows 24 May 2008 13:20 Re: The cinema screen analogy Dear Peter Good to see a reply relating to K Lakshmana Sarma's Revelation. Lakshmana Sarma spent at least years under the direct tutelage of Sri Bhagavan, who showed him the working of the Tamil metre in Ulladu Narpadu. Lakshmana Sarma has also written " Sri Ramanaparavidyopanishad " (The Supreme Science as Taught by Sri Bhagavan), which was composed by him in the decade directly after Sri Ramana's Mahasamadhi. I am sure you will have a copy. If not, you will want to acquire a copy. It is a wonderful work, full of illumination, and it contains the essence of many of the Verses used in " The Forty " as well as other Verses in Sanskrit from The Garland of Guru's Sayings. Translated by Samvid, the book was published by Sri Ramanasramam in 2006. Priced Rs.100.00/-. Sincerely Michael Cape-Meadows .. <http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=73173/grpspId=1705060955/msgId=4 5781/stime=1211631594/nc1=5008814/nc2=5349280/nc3=5349274> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2008 Report Share Posted May 24, 2008 Hello Tim and All, What a delightful passage from Nisargadatta. It reminds me of the first Introductory / dedicatory verse to the Forty Verses (of which I have just posted verse 1). Incidentally, as many will know, there are two introductory verses to Sri Ramana's 'Forty Verses'. I feel the first one expresses the path of atma-vichara (self-inquiry) while the second the path of Bhakti (Devotion) - two of the themes that Alan and Mourad have touched upon in recent mails. I've put them below. i. Can there be a sense of existence without something that is? Is Real Consciousness a thing other than That? Since that (Reality) dwells, thought-free, in the Heart; how can It - Itself named the Heart - be meditated on? And who is there, distinct from It, to meditate on It, the Self whose nature is Reality Consciousness? Know that to meditate on It is just to be at one with It within the Heart. ii. Men of pure minds who intensely fear death surrender themselves unto the Lord of all, the blissful One, the indwelling Self, who has no death nor birth. By that (surrender) their ego, along with their attachments, becomes extinguished. How can they, who (thus) have won abode in Immortality, have any thought of death? best wishes, Peter _____ On Behalf Of Tim G. 24 May 2008 04:15 Re: The cinema screen analogy " I like that verse a lot, Peter... can I add an addendum from Nisargadatta (my own Guru)? This is one of my favorite passages from " I Am That " : Questioner: Can there be life without consciousness? Nisargadatta Maharaj: No, nor consciousness without life. They are both one. But in reality only the Ultimate is. The rest is a matter of name and form. And as long as you cling to the idea that only what has name and shape exists, the Supreme will appear to you nonexisting. When you understand that names and shapes are hollow shells without any content whatsoever, and what is real is nameless and formless, pure energy of life and light of consciousness, you will be at peace - - immersed in the deep silence of reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Dear Tim, & nbsp; I liked very much your quote from Nisargadatta Maharaj. It reminds me of Bhagavan's utterances in Padamalai under the heading of PERCEIVING AND PURSUING SENSE OBJECTS Page 152 No's & nbsp;42 - 49. & nbsp; 42 " The world that appears so wonderful consists merely of names and forms. Transient as a bubble, it exists only at the level of the five senses. " & nbsp; 44 " Do not let your attention dwell on the concept, that is the world. Stop perceiving sense objects and know that the world is merely a dream. " & nbsp; Padamalai is a wonderful book full of jewels for the mature sadhak. & nbsp; All love, & nbsp; In His Grace, & nbsp; Alan --- On Sat, 24/5/08, Tim G. & lt;fewtch & gt; wrote: Tim G. & lt;fewtch & gt; Re: The cinema screen analogy Saturday, 24 May, 2008, 4:15 AM , " Peter " & lt;not_2 & gt; wrote: & gt; & gt; & gt; " Since we see the world (it follows that) there does exist a source of it, a & gt; sole Reality transcending (world and mind), of whose power all this is a & gt; becoming; this is beyond dispute. This cinema-show of names and forms, & gt; their sustaining screen, the light (of Consciousness) , and the spectator - & gt; all these four are only that Supreme Being, who is the Real Self within the & gt; Heart. " & gt; & gt; Verse 1 of Ulladhu Narpadhu (or Forty Verses on Reality) & gt; Sri Lakshmana Sarma's rendering as found in " Revelation " I like that verse a lot, Peter... can I add an addendum from Nisargadatta (my own Guru)? This is one of my favorite passages from " I Am That " : Questioner: Can there be life without consciousness? Nisargadatta Maharaj: No, nor consciousness without life. They are both one. But in reality only the Ultimate is. The rest is a matter of name and form. And as long as you cling to the idea that only what has name and shape exists, the Supreme will appear to you nonexisting. When you understand that names and shapes are hollow shells without any content whatsoever, and what is real is nameless and formless, pure energy of life and light of consciousness, you will be at peace - - immersed in the deep silence of reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Dear Friends, I found this on the Buddhathought.blogspot.It seemed relevent to us Ramana Maharshi Without consciousness Time and space do not exist; They appear within Consciousness But have no reality of their own. It is like a screen on which All this is cast as pictures and move As in a ciinema show. The Absolute Consciousness Alone is our real nature. (no ref. given) My comment: So much for Stephen Hawking! Love to all, In His Grace, Alan Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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