Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > Dear Mourad, > > Thanks for your interesting explanation relating to the perverse logic of the thinking mind. However I believed that 'purification' referred to the removal of the vasanas, and that the fire of Knowledge is Jnana Yoga, and the Ocean of Devotion is Bhakti Yoga. It just shows how two sadhaks can interpret the same text differently. Perhaps we are both are right? > > All best wishes and love in Sri Bhagavan, > > Alan the eventual end of seeking it the elimination of false self identity, by whatever means. the jnani magnifies " i " , the apparent self, by increased realization of the identity " i am s/he " , until the " i " is so big that it dissapears and goes out of existence, and only the self, the " i-i " as the beloved ramana called it, remains, as it always is. the bhakta diminishes the " i " by increasing the realization " i am nothing, s/he is all " - until it is so small that it dissapears from existence, and the self alone remains. so yes, both 'paths' realize the same truth. there is no other. thank you, friends, for your illuminating posts. in love, shabbat shalom all _()_ yosy nnb > > --- On Fri, 23/5/08, mourad <mourad_shamel wrote: > > mourad <mourad_shamel > Re: Reply to " I AM " , The significance. > > Friday, 23 May, 2008, 12:26 PM > Dear Alan > > Yes, the key is the paragraph you mentioned. I will attempt to interpret > the paragraph. > > What is meant by a " purified mind and a focussed intellect " . A seeking > mind is needed. A mind that is not convinced nor satisfied with the > conventional logic, this type of mind is still keeping his common sense, > a mind that did not loose the faculty of common sense. if some one says > there is a God in the skies that you have to obey, this mind will say I > do not believe you. There is a God that created all this universe, but > not in the skies. I do not know , WHO or WHERE IS THIS GOD. The > conventional logic did not answer the questions about life, death, an > after life, a heaven or man's destiny...etc. All these questions are > answered theoritically by the conventional logic of man. But this > theoritical answer, the eschatology in religions did not satisfy this > type of mind. Moreover, this seeking mind was not convinced nor > satisfied with answers presented by religion and concluded that the > conventional logic is only for worldly communications. This mind is > purified from absolute reality of the conventional logic. The > conventional logic is not water proof nor air tight. Out of this simple > understanding the intellect will become focused in the form of > expressing what this mind understood. > > What does Sri Ramana means by " The fire of knowledge and Ocean of > Devotion " . > > This seeking mind will not stop examining his whole experience. The > seeking mind will find that this conventional logic is being experienced > 24 hours a day. This seeking mind will discover that what is blinding > him from seeing things as they are is this conventional logic. The > conventional logic is the blinding agent. Out of this revelation, things > will appear as they are -not as they were coloured by the conventional > logic. Another type of logic will emerge based on seeing things as they > are. This new logic is called Knowledge to distinguish it from the old > conventional logic which is termed ignorance. All this would had never > happened unless devotion was there. A devotion which means one pointed > attention and the willingness to sacrifice anything for the sake of > man's destiny. > > Fod Bless > > mourad > > , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> > wrote: > > > > Dear Mourad, > > > > Thank you very much for his posting, and your reply, which demand a > great deal of study. > > > > My initial response is that the key paragraph, or the gist, is > contained as below. It seems to sum up the whole discussion in a few > lines- or am I being over simplistic? I have, however, added one word , > in caps, to make it even more pointed. > > > > " Dissolution of the ego - needs a purified mind and a focussed > > intellect - the Ego can only be dissolved in the fire of knowledge AND > the > > ocean of devotion - Its dissolution has to be both total, and > > irreversible. in that dissolution alone the Real Self shines forth on > > its own accord. " > > > > This I feel is the jewel of the piece, set in the gold of erudition. > > > > All best wishes and love, > > > > In Bhagavan, > > > > As ever, > > > > Alan > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2008 Report Share Posted May 24, 2008 Dear Yosyx, Thank you too. shabbat shalom , Alan --- On Fri, 23/5/08, yosyx <yosyflug wrote: yosyx <yosyflug Reply to " I AM " , The significance. / (bhakti-jnana) Friday, 23 May, 2008, 10:41 PM , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Mourad, > > Thanks for your interesting explanation relating to the perverse logic of the thinking mind. However I believed that 'purification' referred to the removal of the vasanas, and that the fire of Knowledge is Jnana Yoga, and the Ocean of Devotion is Bhakti Yoga. It just shows how two sadhaks can interpret the same text differently. Perhaps we are both are right? > > All best wishes and love in Sri Bhagavan, > > Alan the eventual end of seeking it the elimination of false self identity, by whatever means. the jnani magnifies " i " , the apparent self, by increased realization of the identity " i am s/he " , until the " i " is so big that it dissapears and goes out of existence, and only the self, the " i-i " as the beloved ramana called it, remains, as it always is. the bhakta diminishes the " i " by increasing the realization " i am nothing, s/he is all " - until it is so small that it dissapears from existence, and the self alone remains. so yes, both 'paths' realize the same truth. there is no other. thank you, friends, for your illuminating posts. in love, shabbat shalom all _()_ yosy nnb > > --- On Fri, 23/5/08, mourad <mourad_shamel@ ...> wrote: > > mourad <mourad_shamel@ ...> > Re: Reply to " I AM " , The significance. > > Friday, 23 May, 2008, 12:26 PM > Dear Alan > > Yes, the key is the paragraph you mentioned. I will attempt to interpret > the paragraph. > > What is meant by a " purified mind and a focussed intellect " . A seeking > mind is needed. A mind that is not convinced nor satisfied with the > conventional logic, this type of mind is still keeping his common sense, > a mind that did not loose the faculty of common sense. if some one says > there is a God in the skies that you have to obey, this mind will say I > do not believe you. There is a God that created all this universe, but > not in the skies. I do not know , WHO or WHERE IS THIS GOD. The > conventional logic did not answer the questions about life, death, an > after life, a heaven or man's destiny...etc. All these questions are > answered theoritically by the conventional logic of man. But this > theoritical answer, the eschatology in religions did not satisfy this > type of mind. Moreover, this seeking mind was not convinced nor > satisfied with answers presented by religion and concluded that the > conventional logic is only for worldly communications. This mind is > purified from absolute reality of the conventional logic. The > conventional logic is not water proof nor air tight. Out of this simple > understanding the intellect will become focused in the form of > expressing what this mind understood. > > What does Sri Ramana means by " The fire of knowledge and Ocean of > Devotion " . > > This seeking mind will not stop examining his whole experience. The > seeking mind will find that this conventional logic is being experienced > 24 hours a day. This seeking mind will discover that what is blinding > him from seeing things as they are is this conventional logic. The > conventional logic is the blinding agent. Out of this revelation, things > will appear as they are -not as they were coloured by the conventional > logic. Another type of logic will emerge based on seeing things as they > are. This new logic is called Knowledge to distinguish it from the old > conventional logic which is termed ignorance. All this would had never > happened unless devotion was there. A devotion which means one pointed > attention and the willingness to sacrifice anything for the sake of > man's destiny. > > Fod Bless > > mourad > > , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> > wrote: > > > > Dear Mourad, > > > > Thank you very much for his posting, and your reply, which demand a > great deal of study. > > > > My initial response is that the key paragraph, or the gist, is > contained as below. It seems to sum up the whole discussion in a few > lines- or am I being over simplistic? I have, however, added one word , > in caps, to make it even more pointed. > > > > " Dissolution of the ego - needs a purified mind and a focussed > > intellect - the Ego can only be dissolved in the fire of knowledge AND > the > > ocean of devotion - Its dissolution has to be both total, and > > irreversible. in that dissolution alone the Real Self shines forth on > > its own accord. " > > > > This I feel is the jewel of the piece, set in the gold of erudition. > > > > All best wishes and love, > > > > In Bhagavan, > > > > As ever, > > > > Alan > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2008 Report Share Posted May 24, 2008 Dear Yosy What you described is true. When you enlarge -I am Brahman- till at the end the superimposition of greatness disappears. While I am nothing, till the idea of minutness dissapears. God Bless mourad , " yosyx " <yosyflug wrote: > > , Alan Jacobs > alanadamsjacobs@ wrote: > > > > Dear Mourad, > > > > Thanks for your interesting explanation relating to the perverse > logic of the thinking mind. However I believed that 'purification' > referred to the removal of the vasanas, and that the fire of > Knowledge is Jnana Yoga, and the Ocean of Devotion is Bhakti Yoga. It > just shows how two sadhaks can interpret the same text differently. > Perhaps we are both are right? > > > > All best wishes and love in Sri Bhagavan, > > > > Alan > > > > > > the eventual end of seeking it the > elimination of false self identity, by > whatever means. the jnani magnifies " i " , > the apparent self, by increased realization > of the identity " i am s/he " , until the " i " > is so big that it dissapears and goes out of > existence, and only the self, the " i-i " as > the beloved ramana called it, remains, as it > always is. > the bhakta diminishes the " i " by increasing > the realization " i am nothing, s/he is all " - > until it is so small that it dissapears from > existence, and the self alone remains. so yes, > both 'paths' realize the same truth. there is > no other. > > thank you, friends, for your illuminating posts. > > > in love, > shabbat shalom all > > _()_ > yosy nnb > > > > > > --- On Fri, 23/5/08, mourad mourad_shamel@ wrote: > > > > mourad mourad_shamel@ > > Re: Reply to " I AM " , The > significance. > > > > > > > > Friday, 23 May, 2008, 12:26 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Alan > > > > Yes, the key is the paragraph you mentioned. I will attempt to > interpret > > the paragraph. > > > > What is meant by a " purified mind and a focussed intellect " . A > seeking > > mind is needed. A mind that is not convinced nor satisfied with the > > conventional logic, this type of mind is still keeping his common > sense, > > a mind that did not loose the faculty of common sense. if some one > says > > there is a God in the skies that you have to obey, this mind will > say I > > do not believe you. There is a God that created all this universe, > but > > not in the skies. I do not know , WHO or WHERE IS THIS GOD. The > > conventional logic did not answer the questions about life, death, > an > > after life, a heaven or man's destiny...etc. All these questions are > > answered theoritically by the conventional logic of man. But this > > theoritical answer, the eschatology in religions did not satisfy > this > > type of mind. Moreover, this seeking mind was not convinced nor > > satisfied with answers presented by religion and concluded that the > > conventional logic is only for worldly communications. This mind is > > purified from absolute reality of the conventional logic. The > > conventional logic is not water proof nor air tight. Out of this > simple > > understanding the intellect will become focused in the form of > > expressing what this mind understood. > > > > What does Sri Ramana means by " The fire of knowledge and Ocean of > > Devotion " . > > > > This seeking mind will not stop examining his whole experience. The > > seeking mind will find that this conventional logic is being > experienced > > 24 hours a day. This seeking mind will discover that what is > blinding > > him from seeing things as they are is this conventional logic. The > > conventional logic is the blinding agent. Out of this revelation, > things > > will appear as they are -not as they were coloured by the > conventional > > logic. Another type of logic will emerge based on seeing things as > they > > are. This new logic is called Knowledge to distinguish it from the > old > > conventional logic which is termed ignorance. All this would had > never > > happened unless devotion was there. A devotion which means one > pointed > > attention and the willingness to sacrifice anything for the sake of > > man's destiny. > > > > Fod Bless > > > > mourad > > > > , Alan Jacobs > <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mourad, > > > > > > Thank you very much for his posting, and your reply, which demand > a > > great deal of study. > > > > > > My initial response is that the key paragraph, or the gist, is > > contained as below. It seems to sum up the whole discussion in a few > > lines- or am I being over simplistic? I have, however, added one > word , > > in caps, to make it even more pointed. > > > > > > " Dissolution of the ego - needs a purified mind and a focussed > > > intellect - the Ego can only be dissolved in the fire of > knowledge AND > > the > > > ocean of devotion - Its dissolution has to be both total, and > > > irreversible. in that dissolution alone the Real Self shines > forth on > > > its own accord. " > > > > > > This I feel is the jewel of the piece, set in the gold of > erudition. > > > > > > All best wishes and love, > > > > > > In Bhagavan, > > > > > > As ever, > > > > > > Alan > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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