Guest guest Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Hi, Read Palanis mail and Alans reply but still the mind is not calm. I am currently pursuing my MBA and very often find myself asking " Should i make effort or is the self animating me and doing my actions " . When i score less, lose some business competitions I always end up cursing myself saying i dint do enough effort. Academically I am going through a dark phase right now and i feel not making effort and concluding that the Self is guiding would be a weak excuse for laziness and the failure. But then Ramana does say " The ordainer controls the actions ...... " I am confused and would be grateful if someone can clearly answer these questions i) Do I do anything? should i make effort or submit to prarabdha ? ii)Is it ok to have plans or goals ? or is one to take what comes ? iii)Does freewill at all exist? Finally to calm my mind and help your answers sink in , pls do quote a personal experience or some realized soul or the scriptures. Thanks in advance, --Badri-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Dear Badinath, From my own experience, I feel one should use one's intelligence and discriminating intellect to the best of one's ability, i.e. makeing one's best effort, but knowing in the background that you are not the doer, but it is the Higher Power or Self which does the work and you are merely the instrument. On this principle make plans to succeed, but accept failure with equanimity. So, if things go well, one is grateful, but if they do not, one accepts with gratitude that it was not meant to be any other way than it took place. That is allow the Divine will to be done, and welcomed . Free will is only an apparant factor in the structure of determinism. One make the best possible choice one can , as if one had free will, but knowing the whole time that the outcsome was predetermined. All is the Divine will , all ultimately is grace, even if it doesn't appear so at the time.. I cannot find a quote to suit all the aspects of this problem. This is what I have gleaned from my study of the Teachings and put into practice. I hope it helps. There is a Chapter in Godman's BE AS YOU ARE called Life In The World which covers many aspects of this dilemna. In one place (P. 137) Ramana says " we too must play our parts on the stage of life, but we must not identify ourselves with those parts. " All good wishes in your quest, Alan --- On Mon, 2/6/08, Badrinath.V.S <badrinath wrote: Badrinath.V.S <badrinath Need Help part 2!!! Monday, 2 June, 2008, 2:35 PM Hi, Read Palanis mail and Alans reply but still the mind is not calm. I am currently pursuing my MBA and very often find myself asking " Should i make effort or is the self animating me and doing my actions " . When i score less, lose some business competitions I always end up cursing myself saying i dint do enough effort. Academically I am going through a dark phase right now and i feel not making effort and concluding that the Self is guiding would be a weak excuse for laziness and the failure. But then Ramana does say " The ordainer controls the actions ...... " I am confused and would be grateful if someone can clearly answer these questions i) Do I do anything? should i make effort or submit to prarabdha ? ii)Is it ok to have plans or goals ? or is one to take what comes ? iii)Does freewill at all exist? Finally to calm my mind and help your answers sink in , pls do quote a personal experience or some realized soul or the scriptures. Thanks in advance, --Badri-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Dear Badrinathji: After Mr Alan Jacobs posting I'm not sure there is anything more to say, because is one of the most honest, clear and succinct advices I came across in this matter. This advise contains everything we need, in fact, to resolve the so-called " problems " we are experiencing. That being said I would like just to point out that sometimes the Ego will create its own way of " delude itself " to continue feeding the identification with the body (mind and intellect included), to continue feeling the sense of doership. And one of those ways is just to continue " thinking " about it, instead of stopping. Period. Stop. Again, Ego will " manifest " the thought: " BUT... I can't stop! and there it goes again... And for that stopping we require effort. Let us forget about who's doing the effort for now, let's just stop. Mr Robert Adamson said: " What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? Our Bhagavan (Ramana Maharshi) said: Our business is to keep quiet (or " be still " in other translations, in tamil: Summa Iru) One keeps still and then what?... and then one does the next thing. That's all that is required. and the Ego: " BUT... what is going to happen if..., need help part 3, part 4.. Stop Summa Iru... That stillness allows us to self-enquire on who is really having all these problems/thoughts/emotions. Also, some of us, because our personal vasanas, we will have more inclinations to have these kind of mind-struggles, I am also one of the kind. For others it may be pride, or anger, or self-deprecation, or self-importance, drugs, sex, worries of other kind, or " you name it! " . But after all, isn't the core of Bhagavan's Teachings to enquire as to whom all these situations are " ocurring " ? Under that line of thought, we could put it this way: 1) Do I do anything? Yes and No, depending on how " you " define " I " . 2) Should i make effort or submit to prarabdha? Yes, both. 3) Is it ok to have plans or goals ? or is one to take what comes? Yes, both, because what comes may well be setting up a goal, and that goal could be to take what comes. 4) Does freewill at all exist? Again, Yes and No depending on who you take yourSelf to be... Sorry if it was a long email, since the topic is also an actual personal daily reflection, I got carried away writing. All the best, Yours in Bhagavan, Mouna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Dear Mouna, Thank you so much for your excellent posting. I feel all that you have written perfectly complements my posting, so together there is real guidance. All best wishes and regards, Alan P.S. It's Robert Adams not Adamson --- On Mon, 2/6/08, upadesa <maunna wrote: upadesa <maunna Re: Need Help part 2!!! Monday, 2 June, 2008, 5:04 PM Dear Badrinathji: After Mr Alan Jacobs posting I'm not sure there is anything more to say, because is one of the most honest, clear and succinct advices I came across in this matter. This advise contains everything we need, in fact, to resolve the so-called " problems " we are experiencing. That being said I would like just to point out that sometimes the Ego will create its own way of " delude itself " to continue feeding the identification with the body (mind and intellect included), to continue feeling the sense of doership. And one of those ways is just to continue " thinking " about it, instead of stopping. Period. Stop. Again, Ego will " manifest " the thought: " BUT... I can't stop! and there it goes again... And for that stopping we require effort. Let us forget about who's doing the effort for now, let's just stop. Mr Robert Adamson said: " What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? Our Bhagavan (Ramana Maharshi) said: Our business is to keep quiet (or " be still " in other translations, in tamil: Summa Iru) One keeps still and then what?... and then one does the next thing. That's all that is required. and the Ego: " BUT... what is going to happen if..., need help part 3, part 4.. Stop Summa Iru... That stillness allows us to self-enquire on who is really having all these problems/thoughts/ emotions. Also, some of us, because our personal vasanas, we will have more inclinations to have these kind of mind-struggles, I am also one of the kind. For others it may be pride, or anger, or self-deprecation, or self-importance, drugs, sex, worries of other kind, or " you name it! " . But after all, isn't the core of Bhagavan's Teachings to enquire as to whom all these situations are " ocurring " ? Under that line of thought, we could put it this way: 1) Do I do anything? Yes and No, depending on how " you " define " I " . 2) Should i make effort or submit to prarabdha? Yes, both. 3) Is it ok to have plans or goals ? or is one to take what comes? Yes, both, because what comes may well be setting up a goal, and that goal could be to take what comes. 4) Does freewill at all exist? Again, Yes and No depending on who you take yourSelf to be... Sorry if it was a long email, since the topic is also an actual personal daily reflection, I got carried away writing. All the best, Yours in Bhagavan, Mouna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > P.S. It's Robert Adams not Adamson > Dear Alan and Friends of the Harsha List: I'm sorry about the confusion I created, for the phrase: " What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? " (it is also the title of one of his books), I was refering to Sailor " Bob " Adamson, that I paraphrase as Mr Robert Adamson. I should have written his name as shows in his books, in order to NOT create confusion. Thank you for pointing this out. Salutations to All, Mouna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Dear Mouna, Thanks. That makes it clear. Regards, Alan --- On Mon, 2/6/08, upadesa <maunna wrote: upadesa <maunna Re: Need Help part 2!!! Monday, 2 June, 2008, 5:27 PM , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote: > > P.S. It's Robert Adams not Adamson > Dear Alan and Friends of the Harsha List: I'm sorry about the confusion I created, for the phrase: " What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? " (it is also the title of one of his books), I was refering to Sailor " Bob " Adamson, that I paraphrase as Mr Robert Adamson. I should have written his name as shows in his books, in order to NOT create confusion. Thank you for pointing this out. Salutations to All, Mouna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Dear Alan, Thanks for the reply, we re-read it several times till the concepts sink in. Dear Mouna, I am sorry to say this, but i really couldn't understand what you meant, perhaps its me or perhaps its that some part of the mail formatting got missed out, But in essence your reply seemed to me to be more of a puzzle than a solution. Also your answering both ways for the questions only increased my dilemma. Can you please elucidate your reply. --Badri-- , " upadesa " <maunna wrote: > > Dear Badrinathji: > > After Mr Alan Jacobs posting I'm not sure there is anything more to > say, because is one of the most honest, clear and succinct advices I > came across in this matter. This advise contains everything we need, > in fact, to resolve the so-called " problems " we are experiencing. > > That being said I would like just to point out that sometimes the Ego > will create its own way of " delude itself " to continue feeding the > identification with the body (mind and intellect included), to > continue feeling the sense of doership. > And one of those ways is just to continue " thinking " about it, instead > of stopping. > Period. > Stop. > Again, Ego will " manifest " the thought: " BUT... I can't stop! and > there it goes again... > > And for that stopping we require effort. > Let us forget about who's doing the effort for now, let's just stop. > Mr Robert Adamson said: " What's wrong with right now if you don't > think about it? > Our Bhagavan (Ramana Maharshi) said: Our business is to keep quiet (or > " be still " in other translations, in tamil: Summa Iru) > > One keeps still and then what?... and then one does the next thing. > That's all that is required. > > and the Ego: " BUT... what is going to happen if..., need help part 3, > part 4.. > Stop Summa Iru... > That stillness allows us to self-enquire on who is really having all > these problems/thoughts/emotions. > > Also, some of us, because our personal vasanas, we will have more > inclinations to have these kind of mind-struggles, I am also one of > the kind. For others it may be pride, or anger, or self-deprecation, > or self-importance, drugs, sex, worries of other kind, or " you name > it! " . But after all, isn't the core of Bhagavan's Teachings to enquire > as to whom all these situations are " ocurring " ? > > > Under that line of thought, we could put it this way: > > 1) Do I do anything? > Yes and No, depending on how " you " define " I " . > 2) Should i make effort or submit to prarabdha? > Yes, both. > 3) Is it ok to have plans or goals ? or is one to take what comes? > Yes, both, because what comes may well be setting up a goal, > and that goal could be to take what comes. > 4) Does freewill at all exist? > Again, Yes and No depending on who you take yourSelf to be... > > > Sorry if it was a long email, since the topic is also an actual > personal daily reflection, I got carried away writing. > All the best, > Yours in Bhagavan, > Mouna > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 , " Badrinath.V.S " <badrinath wrote: > Dear Mouna, > I am sorry to say this, but i really couldn't understand what you > meant, perhaps its me or perhaps its that some part of the mail > formatting got missed out, But in essence your reply seemed to me to > be more of a puzzle than a solution. > > Also your answering both ways for the questions only increased my > dilemma. Can you please elucidate your reply. > Dear Badri, (bear with me this long email, thanks) I am really sorry if my posting add to your confusion, as you might have guessed, it wasn't at all my intention. Basically, what I tried to investigate in the first part of my posting was this egoic characteristic of " keep thinking " over and over about our personal tendencies or about " my life and my goals " or who is the doer, etc, without ever stopping and relaxing on Being (Existence) alone... WITHOUT thinking. Now, please do not ask me what do I mean by without thinking! There is a moment in every struggle where we can just drop (even for a second), all our intellectual and emotional baggage, and rest, make space in ourselves to continue... And if thinking jumps in again, we say: " No, wait a minute, I'm busy NOT-THINKING, come back later. " Badri, it's just a technique if you wish, to cut short the egoic tendency of perpetuate itself in a loop of circular thinking that only contributes to more IDENTITY BUILDING, meaning more present and future mental suffering (as you said in your first post: " I had been going through lot of mental conflict because of various thoughts.. " ) I resonated with your posting since I experience those questions myself also. I was just sharing the tools I use, learnt from Bhagavan and the Scriptures, on how to demolish those tendencies in an indirect way. Because all those questions that you posed before may not have a direct answer, or rather, the answer is when the questioner dissapears!! As for the last part of the posting, all the questions about the Freewill/Fate old advaitic dichotomy, the answers can only be paradoxes, because it always depend on the point of view you will be taking. If we consider ourselves a body (and mind and intellect) separate from the rest, immersed in ignorance, then we will say: we have freewill (and six billion people will agree with us). If we started to wake up to our true substance/nature but still the tendencies are very strong and the Abidance is not permanent, then we will see that this FreeWill is just illusory but we will continue playing the game AS IF, because it's the only way to make efforts!. From the Self point of view, since it is non-dual and all pervading, there is no-one to be the recipient of Freewill or Fate, so the question is no longer valid. I am not sure if these responses plunged you in a deeper confusion... If that is so, please delete immediately this message, forget it and just consider me a friend that is sitting in silence with you, looking a beautiful and peaceful landscape, sharing that " space " where words are no longer necessary. Yours in Bhagavan, Mouna .................... And here, some quotes for the records: (From Sri Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi) Free will and destiny are ever existent. Destiny is the result of past action; it concerns the body. Let the body act as may suit it. Why are you concerned about it? Why do you pay attention to it? Free will and destiny last as long as the body lasts. But jnana transcends both. The Self is beyond knowledge and ignorance. Whatever happens, happens as the result of one's past actions, of divine will and of other factors. There are only two ways to conquer destiny or be independent of it. One is to enquire for whom is this destiny and discover that only the ego is bound by destiny and not the Self and that the ego is non-existent. The other way is to kill the ego by completely surrendering to the Lord, by realizing one's helplessness and saying all the time, 'Not I, but Thou, oh Lord' and giving up all sense of 'I' and `mine', and leaving it to the Lord to do what he likes with you. Complete effacement of the ego is necessary to conquer destiny, whether you achieve this effacement through Self-enquiry or bhakti marga (path). ................... (From The Teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi in His Own Words Edited by Arthur Osborne) With reference to Bhagavan's reply to Mrs. Desai on the evening of January 3, 1946, I asked him: Are only the important events in a man's life, such as his main occupation or profession, predetermined, or are trifling acts also, such as taking a cup of water or moving from one part of the room to another? B: Everything is predetermined. I: Then what responsibility, what free will has man? B: Why does the body come into existence? It is designed for the various things that are marked out for it in this life.... As for freedom, a man is always free not to identify himself with the body and not to be affected by the pleasures and pains consequent on its activities. Actually, however, the question of free will or predestination does not arise at all from the point of view of non-duality. It is as though a group of people who had never heard of radio were to stand round a wireless set arguing whether the man in the box has to sing what the transmitting station tells him to or whether he can change parts of the songs. The answer is that there is no man in the box and therefore the question does not arise. Similarly, the answer to the question of whether the ego has free will or not is that there is no ego and therefore the question does not arise. Therefore Bhagavan's usual response to the question would be to bid the questioner find out who it is that has free will or predestination. D: Has man any free will or is everything in his life predetermined? The same question as above, but the answer differs according to the needs of the questioner. In fact, if one does not bear in mind what has just been said about the unreality of the ego it seems to be quite contradictory. B: Free will exists together with the individuality. As long as the individuality lasts, so long is there free will. All the scriptures are based on this fact and advise directing the free will in the right channel. Is this really a contradiction of the reply given earlier? No, because, according to Bhagavan's teaching, individuality has only an illusory existence. So long as one imagines that one has a separate individuality, so long does one also imagine its free will. The two exist together inevitably. The problem of predestination and free will has always plagued philosophers and theologians and will always continue to do so, because it is insoluble on the plane of duality, that is on the supposition of one being who is the Creator and a lot of other, separate omnipotent and omniscient - he does not know what will happen, because it depends on what they decide; and he cannot control all happenings because they have the power to change them. On the other hand, if he is omniscient and omnipotent he has the fore-knowledge of all that will happen and controls everything, and therefore they can have no power of decision, that is to say no free will. But on the level of advaita or non-duality the problem fades out and ceases to exist. In truth the ego has no free will, because there is no ego; but on the level of apparent reality the ego consists of free will - it is the illusion of free will that creates the illusion of the ego. That is what Bhagavan meant by saying that " as long as the individuality lasts, so long is there free will.'' The next sentence in his answer turns the questioner away from the theory of practice. Find out who it is who has free will or predestination and abide in that state. Then both are transcended. That is the only purpose in discussing these questions. To whom do such questions present themselves? Discover that and be at peace. ..................... (From popular culture) When you come to a fork on the road, TAKE IT! ..................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 hare krishna,namaskarams [ " Badrinath.V.S " <badrinath wrote: HiRead Palanis mail and Alans reply but still the mind is not calm. I amcurrently pursuing my MBA and very often find myself asking " Should imake effort or is the self animating me and doing my actions " .When i score less, lose some business competitions I always end upcursing myself saying i dint do enough effort. Academically I am goingthrough a dark phase right now and i feel not making effort andconcluding that the Self is guiding would be a weak excuse forlaziness and the failure. But then Ramana does say " The ordainercontrols the actions ...... " I am confused and would be grateful if someone can clearly answer these questions ] all vedantic stetements by sages are to be understood in the context in which it was said and to whom at what level of the aspirant.just interpreting literally each word and trying to apply in life would always result in confusion and desperation. to learn swimming one has to get in to water and kick himself up and there is no other way.if he enters the water and waits for the self or god to make him swim he will only get drowned. life is swimming against all the currents.tides and not expecting a shallow sea without waves tides etc.one has to make best of the available resources that comes along in ones life and try to reach the goal with grace of the lord. nobody gets a life tailor made and smooth like an expressway.it is to face everything bravely in life and march on till the last breath praying all the time for his grace. the ordainer controls the actions but one has to act for that control, with faith in the system devised by him. god's actions are at samashti level of the world of karmas and an individual's life is based on his own karma. baskaran BASKARAN.C.S Best Jokes, Best Friends, Best Food. Get all this and more on Best of Groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 , Baskaran <baskaran42 wrote: > > hare krishna,namaskarams > > [ " Badrinath.V.S " <badrinath wrote: > HiRead Palanis mail and Alans reply but still the mind is not calm. I amcurrently pursuing my MBA and very often find myself asking " Should imake effort or is the self animating me and doing my actions " .When i score less, lose some business competitions I always end upcursing myself saying i dint do enough effort. Academically I am goingthrough a dark phase right now and i feel not making effort andconcluding that the Self is guiding would be a weak excuse forlaziness and the failure. But then Ramana does say " The ordainercontrols the actions ...... " I am confused and would be grateful if someone can clearly answer these questions ] > > all vedantic stetements by sages are to be understood in the context in which it was said and to whom at what level of the aspirant.just interpreting literally each word and trying to apply in life would always result in confusion and desperation. > > to learn swimming one has to get in to water and kick himself up and there is no other way.if he enters the water and waits for the self or god to make him swim he will only get drowned. life is swimming against all the currents.tides and not expecting a shallow sea without waves tides etc.one has to make best of the available resources that comes along in ones life and try to reach the goal with grace of the lord. nobody gets a life tailor made and smooth like an expressway.it is to face everything bravely in life and march on till the last breath praying all the time for his grace. the ordainer controls the actions but one has to act for that control, with faith in the system devised by him. god's actions are at samashti level of the world of karmas and an individual's life is based on his own karma. > > baskaran > > ) abandoning yourself corpse-like to the waters of ever running river of life, you appear as moving fast to those watching from the shore… but when you submit fully to the current and float effortlessly, merging with the flow - reposing whole in the present you do not move at all .... _()_ yosy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Wonderful insight Yosy, Einsteinian in a spiritual way _____ On Behalf Of yosyx Tuesday, June 03, 2008 12:42 AM Re: Need Help part 2!!! @ <%40> , Baskaran <baskaran42 wrote: > > hare krishna,namaskarams ) abandoning yourself corpse-like to the waters of ever running river of life, you appear as moving fast to those watching from the shore. but when you submit fully to the current and float effortlessly, merging with the flow - reposing whole in the present you do not move at all .... _()_ yosy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Hello Everyone, Hope you are all well. Will be in and out during the summer. I have to say to Yosy, " What a great poem!! " Is this in your book? Thank you for your loving wisdom. Namaste and love to all Harsha > > > abandoning yourself > corpse-like > to the waters > of ever running > river of life, > you appear as moving fast > to those watching > from the shore… > > but when you > submit fully > to the current > and float effortlessly, > merging > with the flow - > reposing whole > in the present > you do not > move > at all > ... > > > > _()_ > yosy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Namaskarams " if he enters the water and waits for the self or god to make him swim he will only get drowned " Entering the water and trying to see if God saves the body is like challenging God, which obviously means there is no surrender. When there is surrender, there will be no one to test God. sundar , Baskaran <baskaran42 wrote: > > hare krishna,namaskarams > > [ " Badrinath.V.S " <badrinath wrote: > HiRead Palanis mail and Alans reply but still the mind is not calm. I amcurrently pursuing my MBA and very often find myself asking " Should imake effort or is the self animating me and doing my actions " .When i score less, lose some business competitions I always end upcursing myself saying i dint do enough effort. Academically I am goingthrough a dark phase right now and i feel not making effort andconcluding that the Self is guiding would be a weak excuse forlaziness and the failure. But then Ramana does say " The ordainercontrols the actions ...... " I am confused and would be grateful if someone can clearly answer these questions ] > > all vedantic stetements by sages are to be understood in the context in which it was said and to whom at what level of the aspirant.just interpreting literally each word and trying to apply in life would always result in confusion and desperation. > > to learn swimming one has to get in to water and kick himself up and there is no other way.if he enters the water and waits for the self or god to make him swim he will only get drowned. life is swimming against all the currents.tides and not expecting a shallow sea without waves tides etc.one has to make best of the available resources that comes along in ones life and try to reach the goal with grace of the lord. nobody gets a life tailor made and smooth like an expressway.it is to face everything bravely in life and march on till the last breath praying all the time for his grace. the ordainer controls the actions but one has to act for that control, with faith in the system devised by him. god's actions are at samashti level of the world of karmas and an individual's life is based on his own karma. > > baskaran > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BASKARAN.C.S > > > > Best Jokes, Best Friends, Best Food. Get all this and more on Best of . > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Dear Alan your answer is just "perfect" - its the way i try to live my life moment to moment... thank you as always for all contributions yours in GD michael - Alan Jacobs Monday, June 02, 2008 4:04 PM Re: Need Help part 2!!! Dear Badinath,From my own experience, I feel one should use one's intelligence and discriminating intellect to the best of one's ability, i.e. makeing one's best effort, but knowing in the background that you are not the doer, but it is the Higher Power or Self which does the work and you are merely the instrument. On this principle make plans to succeed, but accept failure with equanimity.So, if things go well, one is grateful, but if they do not, one accepts with gratitude that it was not meant to be any other way than it took place. That is allow the Divine will to be done, and welcomed .Free will is only an apparant factor in the structure of determinism. One make the best possible choice one can , as if one had free will, but knowing the whole time that the outcsome was predetermined. All is the Divine will , all ultimately is grace, even if it doesn't appear so at the time..I cannot find a quote to suit all the aspects of this problem. This is what I have gleaned from my study of the Teachings and put into practice. I hope it helps. There is a Chapter in Godman's BE AS YOU ARE called Life In The World which covers many aspects of this dilemna. In one place (P. 137) Ramana says "we too must play our parts on the stage of life, but we must not identify ourselves with those parts."All good wishes in your quest,Alan--- On Mon, 2/6/08, Badrinath.V.S <badrinath > wrote:Badrinath.V.S <badrinath > Need Help part 2!!! Date: Monday, 2 June, 2008, 2:35 PMHi,Read Palanis mail and Alans reply but still the mind is not calm. I amcurrently pursuing my MBA and very often find myself asking "Should imake effort or is the self animating me and doing my actions".When i score less, lose some business competitions I always end upcursing myself saying i dint do enough effort. Academically I am goingthrough a dark phase right now and i feel not making effort andconcluding that the Self is guiding would be a weak excuse forlaziness and the failure. But then Ramana does say "The ordainercontrols the actions ......"I am confused and would be grateful if someone can clearly answerthese questions i) Do I do anything? should i make effort or submit to prarabdha ? ii)Is it ok to have plans or goals ? or is one to take what comes ?iii)Does freewill at all exist? Finally to calm my mind and help your answers sink in , pls do quote apersonal experience or some realized soul or the scriptures.Thanks in advance,--Badri-- Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release 03/06/2008 7.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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