Guest guest Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 , " Richard Clarke " <richard wrote: > > Dear Josy, > > I want to comment on your post. You say: > > advaita cannot be taught. it is a whole and complete way of life. it > can be learned, though. it can be realized by following consistently > the teachings of non-duality, and eventually adopting fully the > non-dual attitude. but this, too, is an act of grace. > > > > As I read this, it seems like a criticism of teachers. hehehe " true virue fears no critique " Maybe I am just > reading something into it that is not there. For myself, I have found > that, though the seeker must look within, having a teacher, in a body, > who instructs in where and how to look can be wonderful. It may be > that you have not had the grace of a teacher in a body in this life. > Maybe you did not need one. For most people, I think, a teacher is of > great importance. Certainly Ramana is that teacher for many of us. > There have been many teachers for thousands of years in many different > places, who taught with both words and silence (depending I suspect on > whom he was `instructing'). Some of these `teachings' have been > recorded. Many, I think, have not been. > the real, living teaching is delivered according to the time, place and people, and by various (and often unpercivable) means. the 'recorded teachings' are precisely that, and nothing more. > I have benefited greatly from having a teacher who seemed to be in the > body. Before this I had read eastern books (mainly Zen, especially > Chan Buddhist), and tried to approach what I thought was the teaching > by myself, within myself. Now I see that I had `ego' as a teacher, and > so was not able to reach beyond ego, was not able to reach beyond the > same concepts that were in fact the limitation. > > Finding a teacher changed this. When I first heard him talk I knew it > was the truth. I did not know what much of it meant, but I knew it was > the truth. Listening to the teacher talk again and again, meditating > with him, having depth of meditation with the teacher that then > extended to practice and life, etc. was my experience. For this I am > more grateful than I can say. > > The teacher reveals the Self as your very own nature, the only nature > that you have. The teacher `invites' you to look within to see > directly the truth that you are. Ramana said that the teacher pushes > from without and pulls from within. > > It is said in this group and many other places that there are > `so-called teachers' that take advantage of unwary seekers. I am sure > this is so. There are also those teachers who stand directly as That, > exemplified by Sri Ramana, and show the seeker who they, themselves, > actually are. I think each of us knows what is true, and can use this > knowledge to discern and discriminate what we hear from a teacher. (I > would say that if a teacher makes any appeal to the ego, then one > should be cautious.) I have also heard things like, " When you are > ready, your guru will come. " and " You find the teacher that you need > at the time. " Maybe these are true, I don't know. > > I do know that for me, finding a teacher was great grace, and that I > was able to take the teachings and the example presented by the > teacher, and look deeply within myself to see what is true. This > seemed to change my thoughts, activities, and how I choose to live. I > feel it is changing my own knowledge of who I am. > > So I say, " Thank you to all the teachers, wherever and whenever you > are. Thank you for showing us the truth about our own existence. This > is the highest grace, the highest blessing. Thank you. " > the real and only teacher is the self/truth. it is always present everywhere, regardless of names and forms. the teaching is revealed when the student approaches it with the right attitude and capacity. when the student is ready, it can be delivered by a tree or a cat; but if s/he is not, even god in person addressing the seeker directly will accomplish nothing... > > One other comment, you talk about, `adopting fully the non-dual > attitude' as if this were some kind of action or thought. This > happens, but as a natural result of atma vidya - Self knowledge. atma vidya is the result. adopting the attitude is the means. no shortcuts. > Until > then it is `just' a mental product, a thought – but I think an > important one for a seeker since it can help direct the focus within. > The Gita says that action does not lead to liberation, only knowledge > – Self knowledge. > > Yes, nonduality is something that the seeker must find for himself > within himself. This is the atma vidya, Self-knowledge, that is spoken > of the by sages. What the seeker finds is that he or she IS that which > was sought. This way nonduality is more than a mere `way of life,' it > is existence as Existence itself. 'you' and your 'way of life' are one and inseparable, my friend. you are the way; it is the existence itself. understanding that is the basis of " nonduality " . tat twam asi. > > > Maybe we are not talking about anything different. Certainly, at the > deepest, we cannot be. Maybe it is just language getting in the way of > what is deeper than words or thoughts. > > May you stand in That as That itself. do you mind if i sit? > > Om Arunachala, > Richard > BOOM! yosy > , " yosyx " <yosyflug@> wrote: > > > > > Tim > > > > > " those who know, do not speak; > > those who speak - do not know " > > (tao te ching) > > > > the above applies without doubt to > > all supposed neo + advaita teachers. > > > > they simply follow the law of demand and > > supply - one has to make a living, no? > > > > advaita cannot be taught. it is a whole and > > complete way of life. it can be learned, though. > > it can be realized by following consistently > > the teachings of non-duality, and eventually > > adopting fully the non-dual attitude. > > but this, too, is an act of grace. > > > > beloved ramana taught directly by his presence alone. > > his " teachings " were just byproducts, spontaneous > > acts of boundless compassion. > > > > yosy > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 Dear Yosy, Yes, Please sit. Om Arunachala, Richard , " yosyx " <yosyflug wrote: > > , " Richard Clarke " <richard@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Josy, > > > > I want to comment on your post. You say: > > > > advaita cannot be taught. it is a whole and complete way of life. it > > can be learned, though. it can be realized by following consistently > > the teachings of non-duality, and eventually adopting fully the > > non-dual attitude. but this, too, is an act of grace. > > > > > > > > As I read this, it seems like a criticism of teachers. > > > > > > hehehe " true virue fears no critique " Maybe I am just > > reading something into it that is not there. For myself, I have > found > > that, though the seeker must look within, having a teacher, in a > body, > > who instructs in where and how to look can be wonderful. It may be > > that you have not had the grace of a teacher in a body in this life. > > Maybe you did not need one. For most people, I think, a teacher is > of > > great importance. Certainly Ramana is that teacher for many of us. > > There have been many teachers for thousands of years in many > different > > places, who taught with both words and silence (depending I suspect > on > > whom he was `instructing'). Some of these `teachings' have been > > recorded. Many, I think, have not been. > > > > > > > the real, living teaching is delivered according > to the time, place and people, and by various (and > often unpercivable) means. the 'recorded teachings' > are precisely that, and nothing more. > > > > > > > I have benefited greatly from having a teacher who seemed to be in > the > > body. Before this I had read eastern books (mainly Zen, especially > > Chan Buddhist), and tried to approach what I thought was the > teaching > > by myself, within myself. Now I see that I had `ego' as a teacher, > and > > so was not able to reach beyond ego, was not able to reach beyond > the > > same concepts that were in fact the limitation. > > > > Finding a teacher changed this. When I first heard him talk I knew > it > > was the truth. I did not know what much of it meant, but I knew it > was > > the truth. Listening to the teacher talk again and again, meditating > > with him, having depth of meditation with the teacher that then > > extended to practice and life, etc. was my experience. For this I am > > more grateful than I can say. > > > > The teacher reveals the Self as your very own nature, the only > nature > > that you have. The teacher `invites' you to look within to see > > directly the truth that you are. Ramana said that the teacher pushes > > from without and pulls from within. > > > > It is said in this group and many other places that there are > > `so-called teachers' that take advantage of unwary seekers. I am > sure > > this is so. There are also those teachers who stand directly as > That, > > exemplified by Sri Ramana, and show the seeker who they, themselves, > > actually are. I think each of us knows what is true, and can use > this > > knowledge to discern and discriminate what we hear from a teacher. > (I > > would say that if a teacher makes any appeal to the ego, then one > > should be cautious.) I have also heard things like, " When you are > > ready, your guru will come. " and " You find the teacher that you need > > at the time. " Maybe these are true, I don't know. > > > > I do know that for me, finding a teacher was great grace, and that I > > was able to take the teachings and the example presented by the > > teacher, and look deeply within myself to see what is true. This > > seemed to change my thoughts, activities, and how I choose to live. > I > > feel it is changing my own knowledge of who I am. > > > > So I say, " Thank you to all the teachers, wherever and whenever you > > are. Thank you for showing us the truth about our own existence. > This > > is the highest grace, the highest blessing. Thank you. " > the real and only teacher is the self/truth. > it is always present everywhere, regardless > of names and forms. the teaching is revealed > when the student approaches it with the right > attitude and capacity. when the student is ready, > it can be delivered by a tree or a cat; but if > s/he is not, even god in person addressing the > seeker directly will accomplish nothing... > > > > > > > > > One other comment, you talk about, `adopting fully the non-dual > > attitude' as if this were some kind of action or thought. This > > happens, but as a natural result of atma vidya - Self knowledge. > > > > > > atma vidya is the result. adopting the attitude > is the means. no shortcuts. > Until > > then it is `just' a mental product, a thought – but I think an > > important one for a seeker since it can help direct the focus > within. > > The Gita says that action does not lead to liberation, only > knowledge > > – Self knowledge. > > > > Yes, nonduality is something that the seeker must find for himself > > within himself. This is the atma vidya, Self-knowledge, that is > spoken > > of the by sages. What the seeker finds is that he or she IS that > which > > was sought. This way nonduality is more than a mere `way of life,' > it > > is existence as Existence itself. > 'you' and your 'way of life' are one and > inseparable, my friend. you are the way; it > is the existence itself. understanding that > is the basis of " nonduality " . tat twam asi. > > > > > > Maybe we are not talking about anything different. Certainly, at the > > deepest, we cannot be. Maybe it is just language getting in the way > of > > what is deeper than words or thoughts. > > > > May you stand in That as That itself. > > > > > do you mind if i sit? > > > > > > > > Om Arunachala, > > Richard > > > > > BOOM! > > yosy > , " yosyx " <yosyflug@> wrote: > > > > > > > Tim > > > > > > > " those who know, do not speak; > > > those who speak - do not know " > > > (tao te ching) > > > > > > the above applies without doubt to > > > all supposed neo + advaita teachers. > > > > > > they simply follow the law of demand and > > > supply - one has to make a living, no? > > > > > > advaita cannot be taught. it is a whole and > > > complete way of life. it can be learned, though. > > > it can be realized by following consistently > > > the teachings of non-duality, and eventually > > > adopting fully the non-dual attitude. > > > but this, too, is an act of grace. > > > > > > beloved ramana taught directly by his presence alone. > > > his " teachings " were just byproducts, spontaneous > > > acts of boundless compassion. > > > > > > yosy > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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