Dream during the sleep

June 15, 2008

Dear all,

I have read in many places Bhagavan Sri Ramana talking about dream state. Today I come to the group seeking help towards that.

I never used to ask these questions but recently I have started asking the question about the dreams that comes to me daily during the sleep. I used to get and still I'm getting lot of dreams during my sleep. Everyday when I get up, I could very clearly remember the dreams. Even if it is 1 dream or multiple dreams, it stays in my mind for long time even for days until I forget. To give example, in last 5 days – I have been getting dreams about:

>> Going back to college hostel to take up semester exam again after 5 years of coming out of college.

>> Me being an air force pilot and in my first assignment I try to prove my strength but I loose the war by causing hurt to my co-pilot and crashing the fighter plane in a home and landing it thee. Though I escape, but I can feel my name being degraded and people talking about my failure and that I don't have the enough mental and physical strength to handle the job.

>> A dream about finding a snake in garden and people over there afraid. Even I too fear but after some time, and when I try to pick it up, it runs away and the fear increases as I cannot find it. Then one of the strangers picks it up and throws away the snake.

>> A dream about taking up exam again in college. As usual it was long sequence and I could meet many people in the dream whom I know, my relatives (for unknown reason why they are in college) and some strangers who are point in the dreams

>> Yesterday night I dreamt numerous dreams out of which I could remember 4 of them. A doctor doing surgery with a nurse. A man swimming across ocean in search of his lost lover in sea. A different view of my office where people watch movies, dance like party, one person canceling the ordered wine etc. Except work people are seen doing other work. A woman trying to shoot a man who escapes but finally is blast by a automatic bullet set inside his body.

So everyday there are some or other dreams which I could remember. Even if I close my eyes for some time, say 15 minutes I end up getting some dream. I don't know why and from where it comes. Till now it has not disturbed me, but I'm wondering is it good to have dreams and remembering them when you are awake. Recently I have also started recording my dreams in a notebook. Whenever I get up from bed, I pick the notebook and whatever I remember I record it.

I get some good dreams, some bad dreams, some dreams which just comes out without any purpose, some dreams where there are only strangers, some dreams where I get to see people whom I haven't met for long time etc but end of day when I wake up, it is like I have been in other world and now in the wakeful world.

Do you have any idea why is this happening, should I just let go as it is happening now? People say that I think a lot and it is only because of that, I get so much of dreams. I really don't know what to do. I thought since this group has got so much of experience intellectual people with lot of insights, thought I would seek you all advice.

Thanks,

Palani

June 15, 2008

Dear Palani,

Your question is a tricky one. As far as I know Ramana did not

address this question in his written works - but I may be mistaken,

and others may find some reference.He did say, however, that even

Jnanis dream, and related some of his own dreams about Arunachala.

However I heard Robert Adams, a Jnani, Self Realised through 3 years

with the Maharshi, say 'that dreams should be disregarded, they were

only the brain putting itself in order. The only worth while dream

taking serious note of was the Darshan dream. This was when a strong

Guru figure, in many cases Ramana himself, gave clear instructions,

either directly or in some symbolic form.' Many devotees, including

Robert Adams and Paul Brunton had this experience. None of your

dreams seem to come into this category.

However, C.G. Jung, a great admirer of Bhagavann (see his long essay

in his Collected Works) believed dreams represented some unsolved

problem in the 'subconscious' which was being thrust on

the 'conscious' by a dream. THere are many books on Jung's theories

of dream interpretation you may care to read. Freud also followed

Jung in this respect but was more concerned with resolving sexual

problems than Jung's 'Self Inviduation'.

I hope this helps, others may have better answers to your question.

All best wishes,

Alan

, " ksrpal2002 " <ksrpal2002

wrote:

>

> Dear all,

>

> I have read in many places Bhagavan Sri Ramana talking about dream

> state. Today I come to the group seeking help towards that.

>

> I never used to ask these questions but recently I have started

asking

> the question about the dreams that comes to me daily during the

sleep. I

> used to get and still I'm getting lot of dreams during my sleep.

> Everyday when I get up, I could very clearly remember the dreams.

Even

> if it is 1 dream or multiple dreams, it stays in my mind for long

time

> even for days until I forget. To give example, in last 5 days – I

> have been getting dreams about:

>

> >> Going back to college hostel to take up semester exam again

after 5

> years of coming out of college.

>

> >> Me being an air force pilot and in my first assignment I try to

prove

> my strength but I loose the war by causing hurt to my co-pilot and

> crashing the fighter plane in a home and landing it thee. Though I

> escape, but I can feel my name being degraded and people talking

about

> my failure and that I don't have the enough mental and physical

> strength to handle the job.

>

> >> A dream about finding a snake in garden and people over there

afraid.

> Even I too fear but after some time, and when I try to pick it up,

it

> runs away and the fear increases as I cannot find it. Then one of

the

> strangers picks it up and throws away the snake.

>

> >> A dream about taking up exam again in college. As usual it was

long

> sequence and I could meet many people in the dream whom I know, my

> relatives (for unknown reason why they are in college) and some

> strangers who are point in the dreams

>

> >> Yesterday night I dreamt numerous dreams out of which I could

> remember 4 of them. A doctor doing surgery with a nurse. A man

swimming

> across ocean in search of his lost lover in sea. A different view

of my

> office where people watch movies, dance like party, one person

canceling

> the ordered wine etc. Except work people are seen doing other work.

A

> woman trying to shoot a man who escapes but finally is blast by a

> automatic bullet set inside his body.

>

> So everyday there are some or other dreams which I could remember.

Even

> if I close my eyes for some time, say 15 minutes I end up getting

some

> dream. I don't know why and from where it comes. Till now it has not

> disturbed me, but I'm wondering is it good to have dreams and

> remembering them when you are awake. Recently I have also started

> recording my dreams in a notebook. Whenever I get up from bed, I

pick

> the notebook and whatever I remember I record it.

>

> I get some good dreams, some bad dreams, some dreams which just

comes

> out without any purpose, some dreams where there are only strangers,

> some dreams where I get to see people whom I haven't met for long

> time etc but end of day when I wake up, it is like I have been in

other

> world and now in the wakeful world.

>

> Do you have any idea why is this happening, should I just let go as

it

> is happening now? People say that I think a lot and it is only

because

> of that, I get so much of dreams. I really don't know what to do. I

> thought since this group has got so much of experience intellectual

> people with lot of insights, thought I would seek you all advice.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Palani

>

June 15, 2008

Dear Palani,

A further thought re. 'troublesome dreams' . It maybe that your diet

is too rajistic. It is important for sadhana, as Bhagavan advised, to

follow a strictly vegetarian diet with milk products. This may help.

Good luck,

Love,

Alan

, " alan jacobs "

<alanadamsjacobs wrote:

>

> Dear Palani,

>

> Your question is a tricky one. As far as I know Ramana did not

> address this question in his written works - but I may be mistaken,

> and others may find some reference.He did say, however, that even

> Jnanis dream, and related some of his own dreams about Arunachala.

>

> However I heard Robert Adams, a Jnani, Self Realised through 3

years

> with the Maharshi, say 'that dreams should be disregarded, they

were

> only the brain putting itself in order. The only worth while dream

> taking serious note of was the Darshan dream. This was when a

strong

> Guru figure, in many cases Ramana himself, gave clear instructions,

> either directly or in some symbolic form.' Many devotees, including

> Robert Adams and Paul Brunton had this experience. None of your

> dreams seem to come into this category.

>

> However, C.G. Jung, a great admirer of Bhagavann (see his long

essay

> in his Collected Works) believed dreams represented some unsolved

> problem in the 'subconscious' which was being thrust on

> the 'conscious' by a dream. THere are many books on Jung's theories

> of dream interpretation you may care to read. Freud also followed

> Jung in this respect but was more concerned with resolving sexual

> problems than Jung's 'Self Inviduation'.

>

> I hope this helps, others may have better answers to your question.

>

> All best wishes,

>

> Alan

>

> , " ksrpal2002 " <ksrpal2002@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear all,

> >

> > I have read in many places Bhagavan Sri Ramana talking about dream

> > state. Today I come to the group seeking help towards that.

> >

> > I never used to ask these questions but recently I have started

> asking

> > the question about the dreams that comes to me daily during the

> sleep. I

> > used to get and still I'm getting lot of dreams during my sleep.

> > Everyday when I get up, I could very clearly remember the dreams.

> Even

> > if it is 1 dream or multiple dreams, it stays in my mind for long

> time

> > even for days until I forget. To give example, in last 5 days – I

> > have been getting dreams about:

> >

> > >> Going back to college hostel to take up semester exam again

> after 5

> > years of coming out of college.

> >

> > >> Me being an air force pilot and in my first assignment I try

to

> prove

> > my strength but I loose the war by causing hurt to my co-pilot and

> > crashing the fighter plane in a home and landing it thee. Though I

> > escape, but I can feel my name being degraded and people talking

> about

> > my failure and that I don't have the enough mental and physical

> > strength to handle the job.

> >

> > >> A dream about finding a snake in garden and people over there

> afraid.

> > Even I too fear but after some time, and when I try to pick it

up,

> it

> > runs away and the fear increases as I cannot find it. Then one of

> the

> > strangers picks it up and throws away the snake.

> >

> > >> A dream about taking up exam again in college. As usual it was

> long

> > sequence and I could meet many people in the dream whom I know, my

> > relatives (for unknown reason why they are in college) and some

> > strangers who are point in the dreams

> >

> > >> Yesterday night I dreamt numerous dreams out of which I could

> > remember 4 of them. A doctor doing surgery with a nurse. A man

> swimming

> > across ocean in search of his lost lover in sea. A different view

> of my

> > office where people watch movies, dance like party, one person

> canceling

> > the ordered wine etc. Except work people are seen doing other

work.

> A

> > woman trying to shoot a man who escapes but finally is blast by a

> > automatic bullet set inside his body.

> >

> > So everyday there are some or other dreams which I could

remember.

> Even

> > if I close my eyes for some time, say 15 minutes I end up getting

> some

> > dream. I don't know why and from where it comes. Till now it has

not

> > disturbed me, but I'm wondering is it good to have dreams and

> > remembering them when you are awake. Recently I have also started

> > recording my dreams in a notebook. Whenever I get up from bed, I

> pick

> > the notebook and whatever I remember I record it.

> >

> > I get some good dreams, some bad dreams, some dreams which just

> comes

> > out without any purpose, some dreams where there are only

strangers,

> > some dreams where I get to see people whom I haven't met for long

> > time etc but end of day when I wake up, it is like I have been in

> other

> > world and now in the wakeful world.

> >

> > Do you have any idea why is this happening, should I just let go

as

> it

> > is happening now? People say that I think a lot and it is only

> because

> > of that, I get so much of dreams. I really don't know what to do.

I

> > thought since this group has got so much of experience

intellectual

> > people with lot of insights, thought I would seek you all advice.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Palani

> >

>

June 16, 2008

ksrpal2002 wrote:

> I get some good dreams, some bad dreams, some dreams which just comes

> out without any purpose, some dreams where there are only strangers,

> some dreams where I get to see people whom I haven't met for long

> time etc but end of day when I wake up, it is like I have been in other

> world and now in the wakeful world.

What you call 'wakeful world' is yet another chapter

in your dreams.

Be Well

June 17, 2008

" ksrpal2002 " <ksrpal2002 wrote:

>

> Do you have any idea why is this happening,

> should I just let go as it is happening now?

Dear Palani, greetings,

I don't know if this may help or not, but the way I envision Life

being in Sri Bhagavan's path is a constant, moment by moment

enquirying into " what is happening " not so much as " why " is happening,

but rather where the thoughts are originating or arising from,

enquiring deep into the source of thoughts, whatever their kind.

From that perspective, it doesn't make any difference to be thinking

in last night dream, or what happened today at home, or what will

happen tomorrow... there are all thoughts, one by one taken the space,

uninvited, creating more " mind " , building more " identity " (my dreams,

my life, me, etc...) Again, from this perspective, we may change the

focus and instead of analysing symbology and/or pathology, we may want

to " analyse " the source of that individual thought that just appeared

within the scope of our Consciousness. It may happen that the whole

House of Cards collapses and we stand Silent within Space, then we may

not need any more questions.

The point is not to analyse the snake that we apparently see on the

rope because of deficient light (if it is poisonous, a cobra or a

rattlesnake, etc...) the point is to try to put the light right on

that spot to " see " if there was a snake in the first place...

All the best,

Mouna

June 17, 2008

[...]

>

> >> Going back to college hostel to take up

> >> semester exam again after 5

> years of coming out of college.

>

It usually means that you are very worried about

something [such as a project] and you are afraid

that you might not be well-prepared.

This kind of dream happens to many people when

they think they aren't ready for something.

ac

June 17, 2008

Thanks a lot for all of your support and help in this regard. Yes as you have told, I have been carrying too many thoughts and worries. I really dont know how to come out of it. So many thoughts flowing into my mind. Every moment something or other I would be thinking, mostly what will happen next or what should I plan for or what should I next. I have never seen myself, just being not thinking and being there just like that. If I sit for prayer, within 30 seconds, my mind would go out for something, every time I have to forcefully pull it. If I read even Bhagavan's book, I wouldnt have crossed 1 page, but within that period of time, so many imagination and thoughts would have passed my mind. Sometimes I would really my self very heavy and stressed

because of that. And now being alone here in China, it makes things more worse.--- On Tue, 6/17/08, adithya_comming <adithya_comming wrote:

adithya_comming <adithya_comming Re: Dream during the sleep Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 7:46 PM

[...]> > >> Going back to college hostel to take up > >> semester exam again after 5> years of coming out of college.> It usually means that you are very worried aboutsomething [such as a project] and you are afraidthat you might not be well-prepared.This kind of dream happens to many people whenthey think they aren't ready for something.ac

June 17, 2008

Dear Palaniappan,

I quite understand- but you must summon all your Faith in Bhagavan's grace and in the teaching. The cast your whole buden on the Lord and your own Self. Anxiety drains psychic energy, and is harmful to health and well being. By transfering all your problems to the Lord and the Self, with faith, you trust that all will be resolved for the best. And it surely will! Whatever happens is for the best, even if it does not seem so at the time. Even when things appear to go wrong, there is a lesson there to be learned. The Higher Wisdom of the Lord or Self knows what is best for us rather than the self centred mind. Keep in touch with this group for suport. I expect others will write to you as well as I.

All love,

In His Grace,

alan --- On Tue, 17/6/08, Palaniappan C <ksrpal2002 wrote:

Palaniappan C <ksrpal2002Re: Re: Dream during the sleep Date: Tuesday, 17 June, 2008, 3:40 PM

Thanks a lot for all of your support and help in this regard. Yes as you have told, I have been carrying too many thoughts and worries. I really dont know how to come out of it. So many thoughts flowing into my mind. Every moment something or other I would be thinking, mostly what will happen next or what should I plan for or what should I next. I have never seen myself, just being not thinking and being there just like that. If I sit for prayer, within 30 seconds, my mind would go out for something, every time I have to forcefully pull it. If I read even Bhagavan's book, I wouldnt have crossed 1 page, but within that period of time, so many imagination and thoughts would have passed my mind. Sometimes I would really my self very heavy and stressed because of that. And now being alone here in China, it makes things more worse.--- On Tue, 6/17/08, adithya_comming <adithya_comming@ > wrote:

adithya_comming <adithya_comming@ > Re: Dream during the sleepTuesday, June 17, 2008, 7:46 PM

[...]> > >> Going back to college hostel to take up > >> semester exam again after 5> years of coming out of college.> It usually means that you are very worried aboutsomething [such as a project] and you are afraidthat you might not be well-prepared.This kind of dream happens to many people whenthey think they aren't ready for something.ac

June 18, 2008

Hi,

, Palaniappan C <ksrpal2002

wrote:

>

> Thanks a lot for all of your support and help in this regard. Yes

as you have told, I have been carrying too many thoughts and worries.

I really dont know how to come out of it. So many thoughts flowing

into my mind. Every moment something or other I would be thinking,

mostly what will happen next or what should I plan for or what should

> I next.

I would suggest first to try and simplify your life. Most people are

doing much more than they need to make a basic living, and can cut

down on busy schedules to take more " time out " for themselves. Focus

on the self (self-inquiry) is the recommendation, and the first thing

to do is have some time for yourself! Also, I'd say to focus on the

moment, on the here and now. We tend to project our worries into the

future, feel guilty about the past, etc - the now moment is missed.

If you already have some free time, you can start creating space for

yourself to be in the moment, remain here and now and " be " instead

of " do " all the time. I think that would be a good start. Very few

people are willing to actually make major life changes to cut down on

stress/worries and focus on self-inquiry, but if you're sincere

you'll surely be able to do it and find benefits from it. Good

luck...

June 18, 2008

Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote:

> Dear Palaniappan,

> ... Keep in touch with this group for suport. I expect others will

write to you as well as I.

> All love,

> In His Grace,

> alan

Dear Alan and Palani,

Sometimes the Internet has this kind of magic that words on a monitor

can carry in themselves a deep sense of friendship and support.

Isn't that strange that we don't know each other and we know each

other at the same time?

All the best for both of you (and the rest of us).

Mouna

..............

Not many Gods

Not one God

ONLY God

(Swami Dayananda)

..............

June 18, 2008

Dear Palaniappan,

When we find ourselves worrying too much and trying too hard it can help to

be gentle and kind with ourselves. If we worry about being worried and

feel we should try to stop worrying this in turn becomes something we try

hard to do and only increases our sense of anxiety and worry.

A teacher of mine once said, if you want to control a cow you put it in a

big pasture - the same is true of the personal mind, allow plenty of space

around thoughts and worries to come and go on their own. Worrying thoughts

don't come to an end by adding further worrying thoughts in an attempt to

overcome them.

As fallible human beings we have concerns and worries, we appear to get some

things 'right' and we appear to get other things 'wrong'. Perhaps we can

get a sense that this is not only very understandable but also

inevitable.... and thus allow a measure of compassion for ourselves and our

struggles along the path.

Even while we think of ourselves as unworthy and failing in our efforts

towards liberation it is said that the Jnani sees us as we truly are - which

is the true Self.

" The Jnani sees no one as an ajnani. All are only jnanis in his sight.....

In the state of jnana, the Jnani sees nothing separate from the Self. The

Self is all shining and only pure jnana. " (Talks 499)

Isn't that marvellous - while we are often engrossed in what we feel are our

faults and what needs to be changed and eliminated, the Sage sees us shining

in all our glory not different from Himself, the Self.

With best wishes,

Peter

________________________________

On Behalf Of Palaniappan C

17 June 2008 15:40

Re: Re: Dream during the sleep

Thanks a lot for all of your support and help in this regard. Yes as you

have told, I have been carrying too many thoughts and worries. I really dont

know how to come out of it. So many thoughts flowing into my mind. Every

moment something or other I would be thinking, mostly what will happen next

or what should I plan for or what should I next. I have never seen myself,

just being not thinking and being there just like that. If I sit for prayer,

within 30 seconds, my mind would go out for something, every time I have to

forcefully pull it. If I read even Bhagavan's book, I wouldnt have crossed 1

page, but within that period of time, so many imagination and thoughts would

have passed my mind. Sometimes I would really my self very heavy and

stressed because of that. And now being alone here in China, it makes things

more worse.

June 18, 2008

Thanks Alan. As you said, the final solution is to surrender at the feet of God. Though every day morning when I wake up, I pray and tell the Lord, that I shouldnt repeat the mistake or I should not think too much, but more I speak, the more thoughts go into the mind. And I really dont know how to do self enquiriy. I ask who is thinking, from where it is coming etc. But it ends up in question and I dont know the answer. I ask myself, who is thinking? And I tell it is mind and I ask whhere this thought come from etc... All ends up in question and again all this quesions gets into mind with too much of thought... that this mind does not rest itself. I really feel, my health and life getting worse day by day.

I have been lacking will power and determination. I can feel I have very less strength of mind, I'm very sensistive. I know I want to change, but laziness, other attractions etc makes me procrastinate things. I wish I come out of this career life and come and stay with Bhagavan in Tiruannamalai. As days goes, I prefer staying alone and not socializing out with people. I dont want to crib and make you all people uncomfortable, but just wanted to thank the group and people here for all of your support and guidance and that I'm feeling good to share things.

Regards,

Palani--- On Tue, 6/17/08, Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote:

Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobsRe: Re: Dream during the sleep Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 11:22 PM

Dear Palaniappan,

I quite understand- but you must summon all your Faith in Bhagavan's grace and in the teaching. The cast your whole buden on the Lord and your own Self. Anxiety drains psychic energy, and is harmful to health and well being. By transfering all your problems to the Lord and the Self, with faith, you trust that all will be resolved for the best. And it surely will! Whatever happens is for the best, even if it does not seem so at the time. Even when things appear to go wrong, there is a lesson there to be learned. The Higher Wisdom of the Lord or Self knows what is best for us rather than the self centred mind. Keep in touch with this group for suport. I expect others will write to you as well as I.

All love,

In His Grace,

alan --- On Tue, 17/6/08, Palaniappan C <ksrpal2002 > wrote:

Palaniappan C <ksrpal2002 >Re: Re: Dream during the sleepTuesday, 17 June, 2008, 3:40 PM

Thanks a lot for all of your support and help in this regard. Yes as you have told, I have been carrying too many thoughts and worries. I really dont know how to come out of it. So many thoughts flowing into my mind. Every moment something or other I would be thinking, mostly what will happen next or what should I plan for or what should I next. I have never seen myself, just being not thinking and being there just like that. If I sit for prayer, within 30 seconds, my mind would go out for something, every time I have to forcefully pull it. If I read even Bhagavan's book, I wouldnt have crossed 1 page, but within that period of time, so many imagination and thoughts would have passed my mind. Sometimes I would really my self very heavy and stressed because of that. And now being alone here in China, it makes things more worse.--- On Tue, 6/17/08, adithya_comming <adithya_comming@ > wrote:

adithya_comming <adithya_comming@ > Re: Dream during the sleepTuesday, June 17, 2008, 7:46 PM

[...]> > >> Going back to college hostel to take up > >> semester exam again after 5> years of coming out of college.> It usually means that you are very worried aboutsomething [such as a project] and you are afraidthat you might not be well-prepared.This kind of dream happens to many people whenthey think they aren't ready for something.ac

June 18, 2008

Dear

Palaniappan,

Although

Bhagavan offered self inquiry as the most direct means to realization, it is

not for everyone.

One whose mind

is out of control is not a good candidate for self inquiry.

One’s

interests might be bettered served by taking up a regular routine of bodily

exercise, followed by bathing and then either japam (repetition of a name of

God) or meditation with a name of God or mantra synchronized with the breath.

Synchronizing meditation with the breath is very important. Even when one

is not in mediation during the day, the breath continues and after persistent

practice one’s mind will be drawn to the breath during the day rather

than the out of control thoughts.

The bodily exercise,

preferably hatha yoga, helps to calm the mind by releasing beneficial hormones

and tiring the body a bit. Then the japam or meditation synchronized with

the breath gives the consciousness something to cling to instead of being

kidnapped by the wildly wandering thoughts.

With

persistence, grace and surrender, one will become ready for self inquiry in due

time.

Love to all,

On Behalf Of Palaniappan C

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 7:40

AM

Re: [ -

Ramana Guru] Re: Dream during the sleep

Thanks a lot for all

of your support and help in this regard. Yes as you have told, I have been

carrying too many thoughts and worries. I really dont know how to come out of

it. So many thoughts flowing into my mind. Every moment something or other I

would be thinking, mostly what will happen next or what should I plan for or

what should I next. I have never seen myself, just being not thinking and

being there just like that. If I sit for prayer, within 30 seconds, my mind

would go out for something, every time I have to forcefully pull it. If I

read even Bhagavan's book, I wouldnt have crossed 1 page, but within that

period of time, so many imagination and thoughts would have passed my mind.

Sometimes I would really my self very heavy and stressed because of that. And

now being alone here in China,

it makes things more worse.

--- On Tue, 6/17/08, adithya_comming <adithya_comming >

wrote:

adithya_comming <adithya_comming >

Re: Dream during the sleep

Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 7:46 PM

[...]

>

> >> Going back to college hostel to take up

> >> semester exam again after 5

> years of coming out of college.

>

It usually means that you are very worried about

something [such as a project] and you are afraid

that you might not be well-prepared.

This kind of dream happens to many people when

they think they aren't ready for something.

ac

June 18, 2008

Thank you Peter for your guidance and mail. You said rightly, we need give lot of space for thoughts and our worries. It is also true when I think that I have so many things at this point in time, that I have to feel blessed. But very rarely I see that and instead think about worries. Life is so simple, but my mind have made things look so complicated --- On Wed, 6/18/08, Peter <not_2 wrote:

Peter <not_2RE: Re: Dream during the sleep Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 6:19 PM

Dear Palaniappan,When we find ourselves worrying too much and trying too hard it can help tobe gentle and kind with ourselves. If we worry about being worried andfeel we should try to stop worrying this in turn becomes something we tryhard to do and only increases our sense of anxiety and worry.A teacher of mine once said, if you want to control a cow you put it in abig pasture - the same is true of the personal mind, allow plenty of spacearound thoughts and worries to come and go on their own. Worrying thoughtsdon't come to an end by adding further worrying thoughts in an attempt toovercome them.As fallible human beings we have concerns and worries, we appear to get somethings 'right' and we appear to get other things 'wrong'. Perhaps we canget a sense that this is not only very understandable but alsoinevitable.. .. and thus allow a measure of compassion for ourselves and

ourstruggles along the path.Even while we think of ourselves as unworthy and failing in our effortstowards liberation it is said that the Jnani sees us as we truly are - whichis the true Self."The Jnani sees no one as an ajnani. All are only jnanis in his sight.....In the state of jnana, the Jnani sees nothing separate from the Self. TheSelf is all shining and only pure jnana." (Talks 499)Isn't that marvellous - while we are often engrossed in what we feel are ourfaults and what needs to be changed and eliminated, the Sage sees us shiningin all our glory not different from Himself, the Self.With best wishes,Peter____________ _________ _________ __ []On Behalf Of Palaniappan C17 June 2008 15:40Re: Re: Dream during the sleepThanks a lot for all of your support and help in this regard. Yes as youhave told, I have been carrying too many thoughts and worries. I really dontknow how to come out of it. So many thoughts flowing into my mind. Everymoment something or other I would be thinking, mostly what will happen nextor what should I plan for or what should I next. I have never seen myself,just being not thinking and being there just like that. If I sit for prayer,within 30 seconds, my mind would go out for something, every time I have toforcefully pull it. If I read even Bhagavan's book, I wouldnt have crossed 1page, but within that period

of time, so many imagination and thoughts wouldhave passed my mind. Sometimes I would really my self very heavy andstressed because of that. And now being alone here in China, it makes thingsmore worse.

June 18, 2008

Dear Palaniappan,

Here is a quote from Bhagavan which might help.

Bhagavan. When a man with luggage gets into a railway carriage where does he keep it?

Devotee. He keeps it in his compartment or in the luggage van.

Bhagavan.So he does not carry it upon his head or on his lap.

Devotee. None but a fool would do so.

Bhagavan. If you call him a fool who keeps it on his head, a thousand times more foolish is it to bear your burden when you get into the spiritual life, whether it is Vichara Marga, path of knowledge, or Bhakti-marga, path of devotion..............

The Lord of the Universe carries the whole burden. You imagaine you do. You can hand all your burden to his care. Whatever you have to do will be made an instrument for doing that at the right time. Do not think you cannot do it unless you have the desire to do it. Desire does not give you the strength to do. The strength is the Lord's.

Sat Darshan Bhashya

P. xxvi-vii

All love,

Alan

--- On Wed, 18/6/08, Palaniappan C <ksrpal2002 wrote:

Palaniappan C <ksrpal2002Re: Re: Dream during the sleep Date: Wednesday, 18 June, 2008, 1:54 PM

Thanks Alan. As you said, the final solution is to surrender at the feet of God. Though every day morning when I wake up, I pray and tell the Lord, that I shouldnt repeat the mistake or I should not think too much, but more I speak, the more thoughts go into the mind. And I really dont know how to do self enquiriy. I ask who is thinking, from where it is coming etc. But it ends up in question and I dont know the answer. I ask myself, who is thinking? And I tell it is mind and I ask whhere this thought come from etc... All ends up in question and again all this quesions gets into mind with too much of thought... that this mind does not rest itself. I really feel, my health and life getting worse day by day.

I have been lacking will power and determination. I can feel I have very less strength of mind, I'm very sensistive. I know I want to change, but laziness, other attractions etc makes me procrastinate things. I wish I come out of this career life and come and stay with Bhagavan in Tiruannamalai. As days goes, I prefer staying alone and not socializing out with people. I dont want to crib and make you all people uncomfortable, but just wanted to thank the group and people here for all of your support and guidance and that I'm feeling good to share things.

Regards,

Palani--- On Tue, 6/17/08, Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ .co. uk> wrote:

Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ .co. uk>Re: Re: Dream during the sleepTuesday, June 17, 2008, 11:22 PM

Dear Palaniappan,

I quite understand- but you must summon all your Faith in Bhagavan's grace and in the teaching. The cast your whole buden on the Lord and your own Self. Anxiety drains psychic energy, and is harmful to health and well being. By transfering all your problems to the Lord and the Self, with faith, you trust that all will be resolved for the best. And it surely will! Whatever happens is for the best, even if it does not seem so at the time. Even when things appear to go wrong, there is a lesson there to be learned. The Higher Wisdom of the Lord or Self knows what is best for us rather than the self centred mind. Keep in touch with this group for suport. I expect others will write to you as well as I.

All love,

In His Grace,

alan --- On Tue, 17/6/08, Palaniappan C <ksrpal2002 > wrote:

Palaniappan C <ksrpal2002 >Re: Re: Dream during the sleepTuesday, 17 June, 2008, 3:40 PM

Thanks a lot for all of your support and help in this regard. Yes as you have told, I have been carrying too many thoughts and worries. I really dont know how to come out of it. So many thoughts flowing into my mind. Every moment something or other I would be thinking, mostly what will happen next or what should I plan for or what should I next. I have never seen myself, just being not thinking and being there just like that. If I sit for prayer, within 30 seconds, my mind would go out for something, every time I have to forcefully pull it. If I read even Bhagavan's book, I wouldnt have crossed 1 page, but within that period of time, so many imagination and thoughts would have passed my mind. Sometimes I would really my self very heavy and stressed because of that. And now being alone here in China, it makes things more worse.--- On Tue, 6/17/08, adithya_comming <adithya_comming@ > wrote:

adithya_comming <adithya_comming@ > Re: Dream during the sleepTuesday, June 17, 2008, 7:46 PM

[...]> > >> Going back to college hostel to take up > >> semester exam again after 5> years of coming out of college.> It usually means that you are very worried aboutsomething [such as a project] and you are afraidthat you might not be well-prepared.This kind of dream happens to many people whenthey think they aren't ready for something.ac

June 18, 2008

Hi Palani,

In my opinion, self enquiry can be made far too complicated

by our own minds. When we get fixated on words, then we

can get blinded by them also and run around in unproductive

circles which makes one depressed and dejected.

Rather than voicing the words " Who am I " in your mind, then

trying to resolve it like some puzzle why don't you just

observe the objects of the senses and be aware who is the

recipient of the data.

Nothing need be said. Things arise, abide and dissolve.

There is a witness. Can the witness see the thoughts, or

is the witness trapped in them? Look for the gaps - the

short spaces when your mind is not focussed on anything.

What is there? Go into it.

Also do something for your health. Get the circulation

going and try to keep fit. It will help in advanced

stages of meditation. Don't feel you shouldn't enjoy

life. Whether you do one thing or another the enquiry

is the same.

I hope you get some friends. Sometimes it helps if

we are forced to do things we are averse to, like

socializing. I know, I'm like you. There's more to

happiness and life than our computer screens.

Namaste

Sand

, Palaniappan C <ksrpal2002 wrote:

>

> I really dont know how to do self enquiriy. I ask who is thinking, from where

it is

coming etc. But it ends up in question and I dont know the answer. I ask myself,

who is

thinking? And I tell it is mind and I ask whhere this thought come from etc...

All ends up in

question and again all this quesions gets into mind with too much of thought...

that this

mind does not rest itself. I really feel, my health and life getting worse day

by day.

June 18, 2008

Dear Everyone in the Sangha,

Thank you for your mutual support.

When Sri Ramana indicated a spiritual program for Kunju Swami,

he included a number of things in it including Japa. This is even though Kunju

Swami was a very spiritually mature devotee. Bhagavan felt that a combination

of activities for the mind may be needed to get to the point of full time

self-inquiry. These included prayer, japa, meditation, yoga, etc.

Sri Ramana always advised people to do what is natural and best

for them and what they are inclined to. Within the general framework of the

teaching, each person has to use their common sense to move forward. Many life/mind/body

issues are too complex for simple solutions.

Here is my own example.

I had practiced meditation and yoga since childhood. When I was

18, an unexpected and an overwhelming uncontrollable event caused an awakening

and literally forced my consciousness into self-awareness. This change in

myself caused such panic and fear. I could not fully grasp what was happening

and I could not stop it or get away from it. For three-four years, my mental

life was filled with persistent anxiety and fears. I lost interest in most

normal things and became very skinny. However, I did not lose my common sense

and intelligence. I forced myself to do things such as exercise and walking. I forced

myself to eat proper foods. For a period I had to take a break from going to

college and just stayed home. But then I forced myself to go back and continue

taking classes and stay with my normal routine. I did not find my spiritual teacher

until three years later. But I hung on, sometimes by a slim thread.

All of this was a long time ago (over 30 years). Somehow with

prayers, with japa, with grace of God, I survived. Each of us has unique

karmas. We have to do what feels right in our life circumstances. We can

consult with friends, family, health care providers, etc. Ultimately, we are

the judge of what course of action is best for us.

My own experience is that when we are able to overcome very

difficult challenges, we gain self-confidence in our judgment and gratitude for

the opportunity to grow and flower.

Namaste and love to all

Yours in Bhagavan

Harsha

On Behalf Of NoName

Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:58 AM

RE: Re: Dream during the sleep

Dear

Palaniappan,

Although

Bhagavan offered self inquiry as the most direct means to realization, it is

not for everyone.

One

whose mind is out of control is not a good candidate for self inquiry.

One’s

interests might be bettered served by taking up a regular routine of bodily

exercise, followed by bathing and then either japam (repetition of a name of

God) or meditation with a name of God or mantra synchronized with the

breath. Synchronizing meditation with the breath is very important.

Even when one is not in mediation during the day, the breath continues and

after persistent practice one’s mind will be drawn to the breath during

the day rather than the out of control thoughts.

The

bodily exercise, preferably hatha yoga, helps to calm the mind by releasing

beneficial hormones and tiring the body a bit. Then the japam or

meditation synchronized with the breath gives the consciousness something to

cling to instead of being kidnapped by the wildly wandering thoughts.

With

persistence, grace and surrender, one will become ready for self inquiry in due

time.

Love to

all,

On

Behalf Of Palaniappan C

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 7:40 AM

Re: Re: Dream during the sleep

Thanks a lot for all of your support and help in this regard.

Yes as you have told, I have been carrying too many thoughts and worries. I

really dont know how to come out of it. So many thoughts flowing into my

mind. Every moment something or other I would be thinking, mostly what will

happen next or what should I plan for or what should I next. I have never

seen myself, just being not thinking and being there just like that. If I sit

for prayer, within 30 seconds, my mind would go out for something, every time

I have to forcefully pull it. If I read even Bhagavan's book, I wouldnt have

crossed 1 page, but within that period of time, so many imagination and

thoughts would have passed my mind. Sometimes I would really my self very

heavy and stressed because of that. And now being alone here in China, it

makes things more worse.

--- On Tue, 6/17/08, adithya_comming <adithya_comming

wrote:

adithya_comming

<adithya_comming

Re: Dream during the sleep

Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 7:46 PM

[...]

>

> >> Going back to college hostel to take up

> >> semester exam again after 5

> years of coming out of college.

>

It usually means that you are very worried about

something [such as a project] and you are afraid

that you might not be well-prepared.

This kind of dream happens to many people when

they think they aren't ready for something.

ac

June 18, 2008

Dear Harsha

thank you for telling us about your experiences growing up in the spiritual path - in LIFE.

Message like this are of great help for those who are ready to be still and LISTEN

but these are very few indeed and when meeting someone with this quality - its Grace.

yours in Bhagavan

michael

Dear Everyone in the Sangha,

Thank you for your mutual support.

When Sri Ramana indicated a spiritual program for Kunju Swami, he included a number of things in it including Japa. This is even though Kunju Swami was a very spiritually mature devotee. Bhagavan felt that a combination of activities for the mind may be needed to get to the point of full time self-inquiry. These included prayer, japa, meditation, yoga, etc.

Sri Ramana always advised people to do what is natural and best for them and what they are inclined to. Within the general framework of the teaching, each person has to use their common sense to move forward. Many life/mind/body issues are too complex for simple solutions.

Here is my own example.

I had practiced meditation and yoga since childhood. When I was 18, an unexpected and an overwhelming uncontrollable event caused an awakening and literally forced my consciousness into self-awareness. This change in myself caused such panic and fear. I could not fully grasp what was happening and I could not stop it or get away from it. For three-four years, my mental life was filled with persistent anxiety and fears. I lost interest in most normal things and became very skinny. However, I did not lose my common sense and intelligence. I forced myself to do things such as exercise and walking. I forced myself to eat proper foods. For a period I had to take a break from going to college and just stayed home. But then I forced myself to go back and continue taking classes and stay with my normal routine. I did not find my spiritual teacher until three years later. But I hung on, sometimes by a slim thread.

All of this was a long time ago (over 30 years). Somehow with prayers, with japa, with grace of God, I survived. Each of us has unique karmas. We have to do what feels right in our life circumstances. We can consult with friends, family, health care providers, etc. Ultimately, we are the judge of what course of action is best for us.

My own experience is that when we are able to overcome very difficult challenges, we gain self-confidence in our judgment and gratitude for the opportunity to grow and flower.

Namaste and love to all

Yours in Bhagavan

Harsha

On Behalf Of NoNameWednesday, June 18, 2008 8:58 AM Subject: RE: Re: Dream during the sleep

Dear Palaniappan,

Although Bhagavan offered self inquiry as the most direct means to realization, it is not for everyone.

One whose mind is out of control is not a good candidate for self inquiry.

One’s interests might be bettered served by taking up a regular routine of bodily exercise, followed by bathing and then either japam (repetition of a name of God) or meditation with a name of God or mantra synchronized with the breath. Synchronizing meditation with the breath is very important. Even when one is not in mediation during the day, the breath continues and after persistent practice one’s mind will be drawn to the breath during the day rather than the out of control thoughts.

The bodily exercise, preferably hatha yoga, helps to calm the mind by releasing beneficial hormones and tiring the body a bit. Then the japam or meditation synchronized with the breath gives the consciousness something to cling to instead of being kidnapped by the wildly wandering thoughts.

With persistence, grace and surrender, one will become ready for self inquiry in due time.

Love to all,

On Behalf Of Palaniappan CTuesday, June 17, 2008 7:40 AM Subject: Re: Re: Dream during the sleep

Thanks a lot for all of your support and help in this regard. Yes as you have told, I have been carrying too many thoughts and worries. I really dont know how to come out of it. So many thoughts flowing into my mind. Every moment something or other I would be thinking, mostly what will happen next or what should I plan for or what should I next. I have never seen myself, just being not thinking and being there just like that. If I sit for prayer, within 30 seconds, my mind would go out for something, every time I have to forcefully pull it. If I read even Bhagavan's book, I wouldnt have crossed 1 page, but within that period of time, so many imagination and thoughts would have passed my mind. Sometimes I would really my self very heavy and stressed because of that. And now being alone here in China, it makes things more worse.--- On Tue, 6/17/08, adithya_comming <adithya_comming > wrote:

adithya_comming <adithya_comming > Re: Dream during the sleep Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 7:46 PM

[...]> > >> Going back to college hostel to take up > >> semester exam again after 5> years of coming out of college.> It usually means that you are very worried aboutsomething [such as a project] and you are afraidthat you might not be well-prepared.This kind of dream happens to many people whenthey think they aren't ready for something.ac

Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.0/1507 - Release 18/06/2008 7.09

June 19, 2008

Hi, Harsha,

, " Harsha " wrote:

(snip)

>

> I had practiced meditation and yoga since childhood. When I was 18,

an

> unexpected and an overwhelming uncontrollable event caused an

awakening and

> literally forced my consciousness into self-awareness. This change

in

> myself caused such panic and fear. I could not fully grasp what was

> happening and I could not stop it or get away from it. For three-

four years,

> my mental life was filled with persistent anxiety and fears. I lost

interest

> in most normal things and became very skinny. However, I did not

lose my

> common sense and intelligence. I forced myself to do things such as

exercise

> and walking. I forced myself to eat proper foods. For a period I

had to take

> a break from going to college and just stayed home. But then I

forced myself

> to go back and continue taking classes and stay with my normal

> routine.

I always kind of find descriptions like the above amusing now-adays,

although I know there's nothing amusing about going through such an

experience - I've " had " many such. Which self is forcing which other

self? ;-).

Recently, such an experience happened to me as well, but this time I

allowed myself to fall apart. And it seems maybe I never quite came

back ;-).

Thanks for relating the above, and thanks also to " Noname "

(rmichaelbowes) for what I thought was an excellent recommendation to

the original poster - mind being out of control is not a good state

for self-enquiry, I think he's right.

Namasté,

Tim

June 19, 2008

, "NoName" <aumshanti wrote:

Dear

Palaniappan,

Although

Bhagavan offered self inquiry as the most direct means to realization, it is

not for everyone.

One whose mind

is out of control is not a good candidate for self inquiry.

One's

interests might be bettered served by taking up a regular routine of bodily

exercise, followed by bathing and then either japam (repetition of a name of

God) or meditation with a name of God or mantra synchronized with the breath.

Synchronizing meditation with the breath is very important. Even when one

is not in mediation during the day, the breath continues and after persistent

practice one's mind will be drawn to the breath during the day rather

than the out of control thoughts.

The bodily exercise,

preferably hatha yoga, helps to calm the mind by releasing beneficial hormones

and tiring the body a bit. Then the japam or meditation synchronized with

the breath gives the consciousness something to cling to instead of being

kidnapped by the wildly wandering thoughts.

With

persistence, grace and surrender, one will become ready for self inquiry in due

time.

Love to all,

...................... OTOH:

Nisargadatta:

...I talk about your true nature and your true nature is the sense of presence you have, this consciousness.

.....

This sense of presence, this consciousness, is it not prior to anything else?

......

The sense of presence does not need any activity of the mind to know that you are present.

.....

The sense of presence, which has come spontaneously, will leave

spontaneously. There is no individual except through identification

with the body.

.....

Find out how this consciousness has arisen, the source of the consciousness.

....

Go within. Your normal inclination is to come out through the senses

and see the world. Now reverse: "I am not the body, I am not the mind,

I am not the senses."

Then you are stabilized in consciousness. After that, all further things happen automatically.

.....

Era