Guest guest Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 , "NoName" <aumshanti wrote:>> Ego is a phantom that only exists in the eye of the beholder.I'm sorry NoName, my karana guru is Nisargadatta and I got..hurt..anyway here is Baghvan:197. Gul and Shirin Byramjee, two Parsi ladies of Ahmedabad, arrived this day. They spoke at night to Maharshi: "Bhagavan! We have been spiritually inclined from our childhood. We have read several books on philosophy and are attracted by Vedanta. So we read the Upanishads, Yoga Vasishta, Bhagavad Gita etc.We try to meditate, but there is no progress in our meditation. We do not understand how to realise. Can you kindly help us towards realisation?''M.: How do you meditate?D.: I begin to ask myself "Who am I?'', eliminate body as not 'I', the breath as not 'I', the mind as not 'I' and I am not able to proceed further.M.: Well, that is so far as the intellect goes. Your process is only intellectual. Indeed, all the scriptures mention the process only to guide the seeker to know theTruth. The Truth cannot be directly pointed out. Hence this intellectual process. You see, the one who eliminates all the not I cannot eliminate the 'I'. To say 'I am not this' or 'I am that' there must be the 'I'. This 'I' is only the ego or the 'I'-thought.After the rising up of this 'I'-thought all other thoughts arise. The 'I'-thought is therefore the root-thought. If the root is pulled out all others are at the same time uprooted.Therefore seek the root 'I', question yourself "Who am I?''; find out its source. Then all these will vanish and the pure Self will remain ever.D.: How to do it?M.: The 'I' is always there - in deep sleep, in dream and in wakefulness. The one in sleep is the same as that who now speaks. There is always the feeling of 'I'.Otherwise do you deny your existence? You do not. You say 'I am'. Find out who is.D.: Even so, I do not understand. 'I', you say, is the wrong 'I' now. How to eliminate this wrong 'I'?M.: You need not eliminate the wrong 'I'. How can 'I' eliminate itself? - All that you need do is to find out its origin and abide there. Your efforts can extend only thus far. Then the Beyond will take care of itself. You are helpless there. No effort can reach it.D.: If 'I' am always-here and now, why do I not feel so?M.: That is it. Why says it is not felt? Does the real 'I' say it or the false 'I'? Examine it. You will find it as the wrong 'I'. The wrong 'I' is the obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' may not be hidden. The feeling that I have not realised is the obstruction to realisation. In fact it is already realised; there is nothing more to be realised.Otherwise, the realisation will be new; it has not existed so far, it must take place hereafter. What is born will also die. If realisation be not eternal it is not worth having. Therefore what we seek is not that which must happen afresh. It is only that which is eternal but not now known due to obstructions; it is that we seek. All that we need do is to remove the obstruction. That which is eternal is not known to be so because of ignorance. Ignorance is the obstruction. Get over this ignorance and all will be well. The ignorance is identical with the 'I'-thought. Find its source and it will vanish. The 'I'-thought is like a spirit which, although not palpable, rises up automatically with the body, flourishes and disappears with it.The body-consciousness is the wrong 'I'. Give up this body-consciousness. It is done by seeking the source 'I'. The body does not say 'I am'. It is you who say, 'I am the body!' Find out who this 'I' is. Seeking its source it will vanish.D.: Then, will there be bliss?M.: Bliss is coeval with Being-Consciousness. All the arguments relating to the eternal Being of that Bliss apply to Bliss also. Your nature is Bliss. Ignorance is not hiding that Bliss. Remove the ignorance for Bliss to be freed.D.: Should we not find out the ultimate reality of the world, individual and God?M.: These are all conceptions of the 'I'. They arise only after the advent of the 'I'-thought. Did you think of them in your deep sleep? You existed in deep sleep and the same you are now speaking. If they be real should they not be in your sleep also? They are only dependent upon the 'I'-thought. Again does the world tell you 'I am the world'? Does the body say 'I am body'? You say, "This is the world'', "this is body'' and so on. So these are only your conceptions. Find out who you are and there will be an end of all your doubts.D.: What becomes of the body after realisation? Does it exist or not? We see realised beings acting like others.M.: This question need not arise now. Let it be asked after realisation, if need be. As for the realised beings let them take care of themselves. Why do you worry about them? In fact, after realisation the body and all else will not appear different from the Self.D.: Being always Being-Consciousness-Bliss, why does God place us in difficulties? Why did He create us?M.: Does God come and tell you that He has placed you in difficulties? It is you who say so. It is again the wrong 'I'. If that disappears there will be no one to say that God created this or that. That which is does not even say 'I am'. For, does any doubt rise 'I am not'? Only in such a case should one be reminding oneself 'I am a man'.One does not. On the other hand, if a doubt arises whether he is a cow or a buffalo he has to remind himself that he is not a cow, etc., but 'I am a man'. This would never happen. Similarly with one's own existence and realisation. 23rd January, 1937Nisargadatta:..I talk about your true nature and your true nature is the sense of presence you have, this consciousness.....This sense of presence, this consciousness, is it not prior to anything else?.....The sense of presence does not need any activity of the mind to know that you are present.....The sense of presence, which has come spontaneously, will leave spontaneously. There is no individual except through identification with the body.....Find out how this consciousness has arisen, the source of the consciousness....Go within. Your normal inclination is to come out through the senses and see the world. Now reverse: "I am not the body, I am not the mind, I am not the senses."Then you are stabilized in consciousness. After that, all further things happen automatically..... Era> > I am sorry, I omitted a word from the message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Hello Era, No worries………. Yes this posting is quite enlightening. You posted it on June 2 of this year. I commented on it shortly after that. There is no need for me to repeat my comment. If you or anyone else is interested you can find it in the archives. IMHO - No matter who utters them, ultimately all musings and comments on the nature of the Supreme Existence amount to nothing more than heap of mumbo jumbo. Perhaps this is why Bhagavan preferred silence. Love to you and all……… On Behalf Of Era Thursday, June 19, 2008 4:33 AM [ - Ramana Guru] Re: Dream during the sleep , " NoName " <aumshanti wrote: > > Ego is a phantom that only exists in the eye of the beholder. I'm sorry NoName, my karana guru is Nisargadatta and I got..hurt..anyway here is Baghvan: 197. Gul and Shirin Byramjee, two Parsi ladies of Ahmedabad, arrived this day. They spoke at night to Maharshi: " Bhagavan! We have been spiritually inclined from our childhood. We have read several books on philosophy and are attracted by Vedanta. So we read the Upanishads, Yoga Vasishta, Bhagavad Gita etc. We try to meditate, but there is no progress in our meditation. We do not understand how to realise. Can you kindly help us towards realisation?'' M.: How do you meditate? D.: I begin to ask myself " Who am I?'', eliminate body as not 'I', the breath as not 'I', the mind as not 'I' and I am not able to proceed further. M.: Well, that is so far as the intellect goes. Your process is only intellectual. Indeed, all the scriptures mention the process only to guide the seeker to know the Truth. The Truth cannot be directly pointed out. Hence this intellectual process. You see, the one who eliminates all the not I cannot eliminate the 'I'. To say 'I am not this' or 'I am that' there must be the 'I'. This 'I' is only the ego or the 'I'-thought. After the rising up of this 'I'-thought all other thoughts arise. The 'I'-thought is therefore the root-thought. If the root is pulled out all others are at the same time uprooted. Therefore seek the root 'I', question yourself " Who am I?''; find out its source. Then all these will vanish and the pure Self will remain ever. D.: How to do it? M.: The 'I' is always there - in deep sleep, in dream and in wakefulness. The one in sleep is the same as that who now speaks. There is always the feeling of 'I'. Otherwise do you deny your existence? You do not. You say 'I am'. Find out who is. D.: Even so, I do not understand. 'I', you say, is the wrong 'I' now. How to eliminate this wrong 'I'? M.: You need not eliminate the wrong 'I'. How can 'I' eliminate itself? - All that you need do is to find out its origin and abide there. Your efforts can extend only thus far. Then the Beyond will take care of itself. You are helpless there. No effort can reach it. D.: If 'I' am always-here and now, why do I not feel so? M.: That is it. Why says it is not felt? Does the real 'I' say it or the false 'I'? Examine it. You will find it as the wrong 'I'. The wrong 'I' is the obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' may not be hidden. The feeling that I have not realised is the obstruction to realisation. In fact it is already realised; there is nothing more to be realised. Otherwise, the realisation will be new; it has not existed so far, it must take place hereafter. What is born will also die. If realisation be not eternal it is not worth having. Therefore what we seek is not that which must happen afresh. It is only that which is eternal but not now known due to obstructions; it is that we seek. All that we need do is to remove the obstruction. That which is eternal is not known to be so because of ignorance. Ignorance is the obstruction. Get over this ignorance and all will be well. The ignorance is identical with the 'I'-thought. Find its source and it will vanish. The 'I'-thought is like a spirit which, although not palpable, rises up automatically with the body, flourishes and disappears with it. The body-consciousness is the wrong 'I'. Give up this body-consciousness. It is done by seeking the source 'I'. The body does not say 'I am'. It is you who say, 'I am the body!' Find out who this 'I' is. Seeking its source it will vanish. D.: Then, will there be bliss? M.: Bliss is coeval with Being-Consciousness. All the arguments relating to the eternal Being of that Bliss apply to Bliss also. Your nature is Bliss. Ignorance is not hiding that Bliss. Remove the ignorance for Bliss to be freed. D.: Should we not find out the ultimate reality of the world, individual and God? M.: These are all conceptions of the 'I'. They arise only after the advent of the 'I'-thought. Did you think of them in your deep sleep? You existed in deep sleep and the same you are now speaking. If they be real should they not be in your sleep also? They are only dependent upon the 'I'-thought. Again does the world tell you 'I am the world'? Does the body say 'I am body'? You say, " This is the world'', " this is body'' and so on. So these are only your conceptions. Find out who you are and there will be an end of all your doubts. D.: What becomes of the body after realisation? Does it exist or not? We see realised beings acting like others. M.: This question need not arise now. Let it be asked after realisation, if need be. As for the realised beings let them take care of themselves. Why do you worry about them? In fact, after realisation the body and all else will not appear different from the Self. D.: Being always Being-Consciousness-Bliss, why does God place us in difficulties? Why did He create us? M.: Does God come and tell you that He has placed you in difficulties? It is you who say so. It is again the wrong 'I'. If that disappears there will be no one to say that God created this or that. That which is does not even say 'I am'. For, does any doubt rise 'I am not'? Only in such a case should one be reminding oneself 'I am a man'. One does not. On the other hand, if a doubt arises whether he is a cow or a buffalo he has to remind himself that he is not a cow, etc., but 'I am a man'. This would never happen. Similarly with one's own existence and realisation. 23rd January, 1937 Nisargadatta: ...I talk about your true nature and your true nature is the sense of presence you have, this consciousness. ..... This sense of presence, this consciousness, is it not prior to anything else? ...... The sense of presence does not need any activity of the mind to know that you are present. ..... The sense of presence, which has come spontaneously, will leave spontaneously. There is no individual except through identification with the body. ..... Find out how this consciousness has arisen, the source of the consciousness. .... Go within. Your normal inclination is to come out through the senses and see the world. Now reverse: " I am not the body, I am not the mind, I am not the senses. " Then you are stabilized in consciousness. After that, all further things happen automatically. ..... Era > > I am sorry, I omitted a word from the message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Dear , Well, I'm very grateful that in addition to his abiding Presence and Silence that Sri Ramana did speak and that people recorded it, so that we have Talks, The Forty Verses & so on. I think I would find it hard to dismiss all of that as mumbo jumbo. I feel that the words of the Jnani carry something far more than words can normally convey. best wishes, Peter On Behalf Of NoName19 June 2008 12:52 Subject: RE: Re: Dream during the sleep Hello Era, No worries………. Yes this posting is quite enlightening. You posted it on June 2 of this year. I commented on it shortly after that. There is no need for me to repeat my comment. If you or anyone else is interested you can find it in the archives. IMHO - No matter who utters them, ultimately all musings and comments on the nature of the Supreme Existence amount to nothing more than heap of mumbo jumbo. Perhaps this is why Bhagavan preferred silence. Love to you and all……… .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Dear Peter and everyone, I do not wish to be rude. I know that my style may sometimes seem to convey rudeness; but that is not my intent. I am grateful for the teachings and the life of Sri Ramana Maharshi. And like many of us I have also been blessed by the teachings of other spiritual luminaries. But compared to the unspeakable glories of the SELF, the Universal Being, all descriptions amount to nothing. The lives of the greatest spiritual teachers and gurus are really nothing, and in fact indiscernible in the LIGHT of the VAST Universal Being, the SELF of all. To me the real value of any spiritual teacher/guru is in providing a path/method or the grace necessary for the chela to realize the unutterable glories of the SELF. And Ramana Maharshi has certainly done that. Love to you and all, ---- Peter <not_2 wrote: > Dear , > > Well, I'm very grateful that in addition to his abiding Presence and Silence > that Sri Ramana did speak and that people recorded it, so that we have > Talks, The Forty Verses & so on. I think I would find it hard to dismiss > all of that as mumbo jumbo. I feel that the words of the Jnani carry > something far more than words can normally convey. > > best wishes, > > Peter > > _____ > > > On Behalf Of NoName > 19 June 2008 12:52 > > RE: Re: Dream during the sleep > > > > > Hello Era, > > No worries.... > > Yes this posting is quite enlightening. You posted it on June 2 of this > year. > > I commented on it shortly after that. There is no need for me to repeat my > comment. If you or anyone else is interested you can find it in the > archives. > > IMHO - No matter who utters them, ultimately all musings and comments on the > nature of the Supreme Existence amount to nothing more than heap of mumbo > jumbo. Perhaps this is why Bhagavan preferred silence. > > Love to you and all... > > . > > <http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=73173/grpspId=1705060955/msgId=4 > 6006/stime=1213876312/nc1=5008815/nc2=5286675/nc3=4763760> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Dear aumshanti / noname, It's not your apparent 'rudeness' I was responding to, and thanks for saying a little more about what was behind your words. I just wanted to say how grateful I am for Sri Ramana's words and teaching and wouldn't want to take away its value by referring to it as mumbo jumbo. with best wishes, Peter On Behalf Of aumshantiSent: 19 June 2008 18:40 Cc: PeterRE: Re: Dream during the sleep Dear Peter and everyone,I do not wish to be rude. I know that my style may sometimes seem to convey rudeness; but that is not my intent.I am grateful for the teachings and the life of Sri Ramana Maharshi. And like many of us I have also been blessed by the teachings of other spiritual luminaries.But compared to the unspeakable glories of the SELF, the Universal Being, all descriptions amount to nothing. The lives of the greatest spiritual teachers and gurus are really nothing, and in fact indiscernible in the LIGHT of the VAST Universal Being, the SELF of all.To me the real value of any spiritual teacher/guru is in providing a path/method or the grace necessary for the chela to realize the unutterable glories of the SELF. And Ramana Maharshi has certainly done that.Love to you and all, .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Dear Peter and everyone: We all have different ways of expression. There are many wild flowers in this group but they have the fragrance and beauty of authenticity. The essence of what Michael Bowes (NoName) is conveying is that in light of the Self, everything becomes moot. Michael Bowes, Yosy, and so many others here have a natural style of communication. They sees deeply into the nature of things. Sri Ramana once said to his attendant (I believe it was Madhava), " I am not real Madhava! " . The Guru is the teaching. S/He becomes the raft, a bridge, the grace that allows crossing to the other side. Once there, the bridge, the Guru, the teaching, all sides, the river, the shores, everything disappears in the Self. Only the Self remains. Namaste and love to all Yours in Bhagavan Harsha On Behalf Of aumshanti Thursday, June 19, 2008 1:40 PM Cc: Peter RE: Re: Dream during the sleep Dear Peter and everyone, I do not wish to be rude. I know that my style may sometimes seem to convey rudeness; but that is not my intent. I am grateful for the teachings and the life of Sri Ramana Maharshi. And like many of us I have also been blessed by the teachings of other spiritual luminaries. But compared to the unspeakable glories of the SELF, the Universal Being, all descriptions amount to nothing. The lives of the greatest spiritual teachers and gurus are really nothing, and in fact indiscernible in the LIGHT of the VAST Universal Being, the SELF of all. To me the real value of any spiritual teacher/guru is in providing a path/method or the grace necessary for the chela to realize the unutterable glories of the SELF. And Ramana Maharshi has certainly done that. Love to you and all, ---- Peter <not_2 wrote: > Dear , > > Well, I'm very grateful that in addition to his abiding Presence and Silence > that Sri Ramana did speak and that people recorded it, so that we have > Talks, The Forty Verses & so on. I think I would find it hard to dismiss > all of that as mumbo jumbo. I feel that the words of the Jnani carry > something far more than words can normally convey. > > best wishes, > > Peter > > _____ > > > On Behalf Of NoName > 19 June 2008 12:52 > > RE: Re: Dream during the sleep > > > > > Hello Era, > > No worries.... > > Yes this posting is quite enlightening. You posted it on June 2 of this > year. > > I commented on it shortly after that. There is no need for me to repeat my > comment. If you or anyone else is interested you can find it in the > archives. > > IMHO - No matter who utters them, ultimately all musings and comments on the > nature of the Supreme Existence amount to nothing more than heap of mumbo > jumbo. Perhaps this is why Bhagavan preferred silence. > > Love to you and all... > > . > > <http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=73173/grpspId=1705060955/msgId=4 > 6006/stime=1213876312/nc1=5008815/nc2=5286675/nc3=4763760> > --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008  Dear Harsha thank you for this "morning gift".... Clear words - to the point. No discussions needed - even "forbidden" y e s - this bridge has to be crossed!!!! in His Grace michael - Harsha Cc: 'Peter' ; aumshanti Friday, June 20, 2008 3:33 AM RE: Re: Dream during the sleep Dear Peter and everyone:We all have different ways of expression. There are many wild flowers in this group but they have the fragrance and beauty of authenticity. The essence of what Michael Bowes (NoName) is conveying is that in light of the Self, everything becomes moot. Michael Bowes, Yosy, and so many others here have a natural style of communication. They sees deeply into the nature of things. Sri Ramana once said to his attendant (I believe it was Madhava), "I am not real Madhava!". The Guru is the teaching. S/He becomes the raft, a bridge, the grace that allows crossing to the other side. Once there, the bridge, the Guru, the teaching, all sides, the river, the shores, everything disappears in the Self. Only the Self remains. Namaste and love to allYours in BhagavanHarsha On Behalf Of aumshanti (AT) cox (DOT) netSent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 1:40 PM Cc: PeterRE: Re: Dream during the sleepDear Peter and everyone,I do not wish to be rude. I know that my style may sometimes seem to convey rudeness; but that is not my intent.I am grateful for the teachings and the life of Sri Ramana Maharshi. And like many of us I have also been blessed by the teachings of other spiritual luminaries.But compared to the unspeakable glories of the SELF, the Universal Being, all descriptions amount to nothing. The lives of the greatest spiritual teachers and gurus are really nothing, and in fact indiscernible in the LIGHT of the VAST Universal Being, the SELF of all.To me the real value of any spiritual teacher/guru is in providing a path/method or the grace necessary for the chela to realize the unutterable glories of the SELF. And Ramana Maharshi has certainly done that.Love to you and all,---- Peter <not_2 (AT) btinternet (DOT) com> wrote: > Dear ,> > Well, I'm very grateful that in addition to his abiding Presence and Silence> that Sri Ramana did speak and that people recorded it, so that we have> Talks, The Forty Verses & so on. I think I would find it hard to dismiss> all of that as mumbo jumbo. I feel that the words of the Jnani carry> something far more than words can normally convey.> > best wishes,> > Peter> > _____ > > > On Behalf Of NoName> 19 June 2008 12:52> > RE: Re: Dream during the sleep> > > > > Hello Era,> > No worries....> > Yes this posting is quite enlightening. You posted it on June 2 of this> year.> > I commented on it shortly after that. There is no need for me to repeat my> comment. If you or anyone else is interested you can find it in the> archives.> > IMHO - No matter who utters them, ultimately all musings and comments on the> nature of the Supreme Existence amount to nothing more than heap of mumbo> jumbo. Perhaps this is why Bhagavan preferred silence.> > Love to you and all...> > .> > <http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=73173/grpspId=1705060955/msgId=4> 6006/stime=1213876312/nc1=5008815/nc2=5286675/nc3=4763760> > --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Dear Harsha, Thank you for your good words. I have no quarrel with people's style. I only wished to comment on the substance of what is said. I heartily agree with the larger context in which you and Michael reframe his comments about the lives and teachings of the Guru. Yes, the Guru is the teaching and the raft. No doubt an important part of our journey is letting go the raft when the other shore is reached. As we both know, the teachings and Guru's guidance are for the ajnani (the seeker who has not yet removed ignorance) not for the jnani. So we would not wish to cast the raft aside this side of 'the other shore', nor lead others to think it is worthless and that by casting it aside they are treading the path. (With this approach we enter the domain of neo-advaita, about which Alan has written so well.) I'm not saying that you or Michael have suggested this. I merely wish to affirm the value of the Guru and the teaching. If no one had recorded Sri Ramana's conversation with Madhava - "I am not real, Madhava" - you would not have been able to use it as a fine example of the Guru's life and teaching which inspires us all in many different ways. With best wishes, Peter On Behalf Of Harsha20 June 2008 02:33 Cc: 'Peter'; aumshantiSubject: RE: Re: Dream during the sleep Dear Peter and everyone:We all have different ways of expression. There are many wild flowers in this group but they have the fragrance and beauty of authenticity. The essence of what Michael Bowes (NoName) is conveying is that in light of the Self, everything becomes moot. Michael Bowes, Yosy, and so many others here have a natural style of communication. They sees deeply into the nature of things. Sri Ramana once said to his attendant (I believe it was Madhava), "I am not real Madhava!". The Guru is the teaching. S/He becomes the raft, a bridge, the grace that allows crossing to the other side. Once there, the bridge, the Guru, the teaching, all sides, the river, the shores, everything disappears in the Self. Only the Self remains. Namaste and love to allYours in BhagavanHarsha .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Dear Peter, We fully agree. For us, Sri Bhagavan Ramana is the Guru. He has no equals. Guru Brahma Guru Vishnu Gurudev Maheshwara Guru Sakshat, Parabrahman Tasmai Sri Guruve Nama Namaste and love to all Yours in Bhagavan Harsha On Behalf Of Peter Friday, June 20, 2008 4:21 AM RE: Re: Dream during the sleep Dear Harsha, Thank you for your good words. I have no quarrel with people's style. I only wished to comment on the substance of what is said. I heartily agree with the larger context in which you and Michael reframe his comments about the lives and teachings of the Guru. Yes, the Guru is the teaching and the raft. No doubt an important part of our journey is letting go the raft when the other shore is reached. As we both know, the teachings and Guru's guidance are for the ajnani (the seeker who has not yet removed ignorance) not for the jnani. So we would not wish to cast the raft aside this side of 'the other shore', nor lead others to think it is worthless and that by casting it aside they are treading the path. (With this approach we enter the domain of neo-advaita, about which Alan has written so well.) I'm not saying that you or Michael have suggested this. I merely wish to affirm the value of the Guru and the teaching. If no one had recorded Sri Ramana's conversation with Madhava - " I am not real, Madhava " - you would not have been able to use it as a fine example of the Guru's life and teaching which inspires us all in many different ways. With best wishes, Peter On Behalf Of Harsha 20 June 2008 02:33 Cc: 'Peter'; aumshanti RE: Re: Dream during the sleep Dear Peter and everyone: We all have different ways of expression. There are many wild flowers in this group but they have the fragrance and beauty of authenticity. The essence of what Michael Bowes (NoName) is conveying is that in light of the Self, everything becomes moot. Michael Bowes, Yosy, and so many others here have a natural style of communication. They sees deeply into the nature of things. Sri Ramana once said to his attendant (I believe it was Madhava), " I am not real Madhava! " . The Guru is the teaching. S/He becomes the raft, a bridge, the grace that allows crossing to the other side. Once there, the bridge, the Guru, the teaching, all sides, the river, the shores, everything disappears in the Self. Only the Self remains. Namaste and love to all Yours in Bhagavan Harsha .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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