Guest guest Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 SELF ENQUIRY Gems from Bhagavan P.15 Though ancient and timeless sense attachments in the shape of vasanas (subtle tendencies) may rise countless like the waves of the sea, they will all be destroyed as dhyana progresses. Without giving any room for doubt whether it would at all be possible to eradicate all these vasanas and be the Self alone, one must take hold ceaselessly of dhyana of the Self. However great a sinner one may be, instead of lamenting 'I am a great sinner, how can I make any progress?' one must completely forget the fact of one being a sinner and earnestly pursue meditation of Self. He is then sure to succeed. Dhyana : Self enquiry; meditation; contemplation; inner concentration of attention. turning inwards etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 This is a great passage and I often ask myself why would I want to engage or try to engage myself in the practice of self enquiry unless I had a inkling that there is some particular sense of my self that is either absurd or habitual or less than desirable because it is not useful to myself or others in any productive and loving altruistic way. I am habituated towards narcissistic compulsive attention deficit disorders..IS it wrong to say it is 'sin' If that is true what else could drive me towards the enquiry of who I am..?How can the desire to know be there unless there is some recognition of the case of mistaken identity? Thanks for you time. Alan , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > > SELF ENQUIRY >  > Gems from Bhagavan P.15 >  > Though ancient and timeless sense attachments in the shape of vasanas (subtle tendencies) may rise countless like the waves of the sea, they will all be destroyed as dhyana progresses. Without giving any room for doubt whether it would at all be possible to eradicate all these vasanas and be the Self alone, one must take hold ceaselessly of dhyana of the Self. However great a sinner one may be, instead of lamenting 'I am a great sinner, how can I make any progress?' one must completely forget the fact of one being a sinner and earnestly pursue meditation of Self. He is then sure to succeed. >  > Dhyana : Self enquiry;  meditation; contemplation; inner concentration of attention. turning inwards etc. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2008 Report Share Posted August 26, 2008 Alan, I have similar view on this subject as you do. The aspect in me that is dis-satisfied even after successes & an intuitive lack of understanding of who I am, drive me towards Self Enquiry. I still do not know who I am. But, I know that I had never bothered to question my identity in the past. That and the direct perception of the sense of existence. Both are new aspects that have become quite interesting to examine. I thank you for all the gems of Bhagawan that you are posting in the forum. sundar , " alan kuntz " <alan.kuntz wrote: > > > > This is a great passage and I often ask myself why would I want to > engage or try to engage myself in the practice of self enquiry > unless I had a inkling that there is some particular sense of my self > that is either absurd or habitual or less than desirable because it > is not useful to myself or others in any productive and loving > altruistic way. I am habituated towards narcissistic compulsive > attention deficit disorders..IS it wrong to say it is 'sin' > If that is true what else could drive me towards the enquiry of who I > am..?How can the desire to know be there unless there is some > recognition of the case of mistaken identity? > Thanks for you time. > Alan > > , Alan Jacobs > <alanadamsjacobs@> wrote: > > > > > > SELF ENQUIRY > >  > > Gems from Bhagavan P.15 > >  > > Though ancient and timeless sense attachments in the shape of > vasanas (subtle tendencies) may rise countless like the waves of the > sea, they will all be destroyed as dhyana progresses. Without giving > any room for doubt whether it would at all be possible to eradicate > all these vasanas and be the Self alone, one must take hold > ceaselessly of dhyana of the Self. However great a sinner one may be, > instead of lamenting 'I am a great sinner, how can I make any > progress?' one must completely forget the fact of one being a sinner > and earnestly pursue meditation of Self. He is then sure to succeed. > >  > > Dhyana : Self enquiry;  meditation; contemplation; inner > concentration of attention. turning inwards etc. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2008 Report Share Posted August 26, 2008 Dear Alan and Sundarajan, Thanks for raising the question. The general view of staunch Bhagavan devotees, with whom that I have discussed this burning question ,is that Bhagavan points out that the Real Self of Absolute Pure Consciousness (the state of the Jnani) is occluded or veiled by the vasanas accumalated from this and previous life times. The sure way to eradicate them is through Self Enquiry. Otherwise one is still living from the stepped down state of reflected Consciousness (Chidabasa).It is like looking at the Moon in a puddle, to use a Vedantic metaphor. Either one feels a strong urge to Realise the Self or one does not? Sometime, after pondering, and studying his teachings one may recognise the authoratative Truth of his advice and proceed. Of course total Surrender to the Self or Source of one's own being may also succeed, but it is generally regarded as a longer pracice. I hope this helps. Other members may care to contribute on this important topic. All best wishes and regards, Alan --- On Mon, 25/8/08, alan kuntz <alan.kuntz wrote: alan kuntz <alan.kuntz Re: SELF ENQUIRY Monday, 25 August, 2008, 10:08 PM This is a great passage and I often ask myself why would I want to engage or try to engage myself in the practice of self enquiry unless I had a inkling that there is some particular sense of my self that is either absurd or habitual or less than desirable because it is not useful to myself or others in any productive and loving altruistic way. I am habituated towards narcissistic compulsive attention deficit disorders..IS it wrong to say it is 'sin' If that is true what else could drive me towards the enquiry of who I am..?How can the desire to know be there unless there is some recognition of the case of mistaken identity? Thanks for you time. Alan , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote: > > > SELF ENQUIRY >  > Gems from Bhagavan P.15 >  > Though ancient and timeless sense attachments in the shape of vasanas (subtle tendencies) may rise countless like the waves of the sea, they will all be destroyed as dhyana progresses. Without giving any room for doubt whether it would at all be possible to eradicate all these vasanas and be the Self alone, one must take hold ceaselessly of dhyana of the Self. However great a sinner one may be, instead of lamenting 'I am a great sinner, how can I make any progress?' one must completely forget the fact of one being a sinner and earnestly pursue meditation of Self. He is then sure to succeed. >  > Dhyana : Self enquiry;  meditation; contemplation; inner concentration of attention. turning inwards etc. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 Well I appreciate your thoughts and reply on this Mr Jacobs..What we do have here are many words, terms with various definitions and so now what I get are ambigous and debateable terminology with little meaning. jnani from the way you use the term i assume means 'knowing' as in gnosis correct? If everythng you are is past habit clusters or vasanas then who is speaking to me right now?I mean if I eradicate every vasana would I even be able to sit here and speak or type at all? Would I as Alan Kuntz even exist?.I may just disappear completely if that were the case eh? Isn't Self enquiry really pretty much like what Nagarjuna said in Verses from the Center on the the subject of Emptiness or as in the kenosis ideas of christianity or as Thomas Merton seemed to understand at least intellectually that 0= infinity..So we are reducing every 'I " that seems to pop up or come around and establishes it self as 'I'only to return to silence which is The SELF.. This is a life time practice and as RAMANA SAID SOME WHERE WE NEED TO BE DILIGENT. iT TAKE ALONG TIME to even solidify this intellectually efore som e of us can evn begin to practice so it seems..Hey thanks for your timee. Alan Kuntz , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > Dear Alan and Sundarajan, > > Thanks for raising the question. > > The general view of staunch Bhagavan devotees, with whom that I have discussed this burning question ,is that Bhagavan points out that the Real Self of Absolute Pure Consciousness (the state of the Jnani) is occluded or veiled by the vasanas accumalated from this and previous life times. The sure way to eradicate them is through Self Enquiry. Otherwise one is still living from the stepped down state of reflected Consciousness (Chidabasa).It is like looking at the Moon in a puddle, to use a Vedantic metaphor. Either one feels a strong urge to Realise the Self or one does not? Sometime, after pondering, and studying his teachings one may recognise the authoratative Truth of his advice and proceed. Of course total Surrender to the Self or Source of one's own being may also succeed, but it is generally regarded as a longer pracice. > > I hope this helps. Other members may care to contribute on this important topic. > > All best wishes and regards, > > Alan > --- On Mon, 25/8/08, alan kuntz <alan.kuntz wrote: > > alan kuntz <alan.kuntz > Re: SELF ENQUIRY > > Monday, 25 August, 2008, 10:08 PM > > This is a great passage and I often ask myself why would I want to > engage or try to engage myself in the practice of self enquiry > unless I had a inkling that there is some particular sense of my self > that is either absurd or habitual or less than desirable because it > is not useful to myself or others in any productive and loving > altruistic way. I am habituated towards narcissistic compulsive > attention deficit disorders..IS it wrong to say it is 'sin' > If that is true what else could drive me towards the enquiry of who I > am..?How can the desire to know be there unless there is some > recognition of the case of mistaken identity? > Thanks for you time. > Alan > > , Alan Jacobs > <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > SELF ENQUIRY > >  > > Gems from Bhagavan P.15 > >  > > Though ancient and timeless sense attachments in the shape of > vasanas (subtle tendencies) may rise countless like the waves of the > sea, they will all be destroyed as dhyana progresses. Without giving > any room for doubt whether it would at all be possible to eradicate > all these vasanas and be the Self alone, one must take hold > ceaselessly of dhyana of the Self. However great a sinner one may be, > instead of lamenting 'I am a great sinner, how can I make any > progress?' one must completely forget the fact of one being a sinner > and earnestly pursue meditation of Self. He is then sure to succeed. > >  > > Dhyana : Self enquiry;  meditation; contemplation; inner > concentration of attention. turning inwards etc. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 Dear Alan, Thanks for your considered reply. Yes, I would agree that the knowing or knowledge of Jnana is as you have referred to as Gnosis. Yes, all terms used are debateable, but we do the best we can in our choice, and hope other members will correct, ammend or amplify where necessary. The part which is speaking to you now is hopefully the most intelligent part of the 'ego' which has seen through the charade of life and wants to wake up! You may call our mutual interest in Advaita and Ramana a benign vasana in so far as our most intelligent part has recognised the probability of Truth in this teaching. Your understanding of what Self Enquiry is seems pretty sound to me. The Self's silence (Jnana) we are talking about is dynamic, full of potency, unconditional love and wisdom ,not only absence of noise. I regret I am not very familiar with Thomas Merton or Nagarjuna, my 'knowledge' of Buddhism is somewhat limited. All regards and good wishes, Alan --- On Wed, 27/8/08, alan.kuntz <alan.kuntz wrote: alan.kuntz <alan.kuntz Re: SELF ENQUIRY Date: Wednesday, 27 August, 2008, 9:44 AM Well I appreciate your thoughts and reply on this Mr Jacobs..What we do have here are many words, terms with various definitions and so now what I get are ambigous and debateable terminology with little meaning.jnani from the way you use the term i assume means 'knowing' as in gnosis correct?If everythng you are is past habit clusters or vasanasthen who is speaking to me right now?I mean if I eradicate every vasana would I even be able to sit here and speak or type at all? Would I as Alan Kuntz even exist?.I may just disappear completely if that were the case eh?Isn't Self enquiry really pretty much like what Nagarjuna said in Verses from the Center on the the subject of Emptiness or as in the kenosis ideas of christianity or as Thomas Merton seemed to understand at least intellectually that 0= infinity..So we are reducing every 'I" that seems to pop up or come around and establishes it self as 'I'only to return to silence which is The SELF..This is a life time practice and as RAMANA SAID SOME WHERE WE NEED TO BE DILIGENT.iT TAKE ALONG TIME to even solidify this intellectually efore som e of us can evn begin to practice so it seems..Hey thanks for your timee.Alan Kuntz, Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Alan and Sundarajan,> > Thanks for raising the question.> > The general view of staunch Bhagavan devotees, with whom that I have discussed this burning question ,is that Bhagavan points out that the Real Self of Absolute Pure Consciousness (the state of the Jnani) is occluded or veiled by the vasanas accumalated from this and previous life times. The sure way to eradicate them is through Self Enquiry. Otherwise one is still living from the stepped down state of reflected Consciousness (Chidabasa). It is like looking at the Moon in a puddle, to use a Vedantic metaphor. Either one feels a strong urge to Realise the Self or one does not? Sometime, after pondering, and studying his teachings one may recognise the authoratative Truth of his advice and proceed. Of course total Surrender to the Self or Source of one's own being may also succeed, but it is generally regarded as a longer pracice.> > I hope this helps. Other members may care to contribute on this important topic.> > All best wishes and regards,> > Alan > --- On Mon, 25/8/08, alan kuntz <alan.kuntz@ ...> wrote:> > alan kuntz <alan.kuntz@ ...>> Re: SELF ENQUIRY> > Monday, 25 August, 2008, 10:08 PM> > > > > > > > > This is a great passage and I often ask myself why would I want to > engage or try to engage myself in the practice of self enquiry> unless I had a inkling that there is some particular sense of my self > that is either absurd or habitual or less than desirable because it > is not useful to myself or others in any productive and loving > altruistic way. I am habituated towards narcissistic compulsive > attention deficit disorders..IS it wrong to say it is 'sin'> If that is true what else could drive me towards the enquiry of who I > am..?How can the desire to know be there unless there is some > recognition of the case of mistaken identity?> Thanks for you time.> Alan> > , Alan Jacobs > <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote:> >> > > > SELF ENQUIRY> >  > > Gems from Bhagavan P.15> >  > > Though ancient and timeless sense attachments in the shape of > vasanas (subtle tendencies) may rise countless like the waves of the > sea, they will all be destroyed as dhyana progresses. Without giving > any room for doubt whether it would at all be possible to eradicate > all these vasanas and be the Self alone, one must take hold > ceaselessly of dhyana of the Self. However great a sinner one may be, > instead of lamenting 'I am a great sinner, how can I make any > progress?' one must completely forget the fact of one being a sinner > and earnestly pursue meditation of Self. He is then sure to succeed.> >  > > Dhyana : Self enquiry;  meditation; contemplation; inner > concentration of attention. turning inwards etc.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Thank you Alan for your kind and sincere reply.I see a teacher and wisdom in you.I respect you sincerely, Thank you very much for your time and reply. Alan Kuntz , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > Dear Alan, >  > Thanks for your considered reply. Yes, I would agree that the knowing or knowledge of Jnana is as you have referred to as Gnosis. Yes, all terms used are debateable, but we do the best we can in our choice, and hope other members will correct, ammend or amplify where necessary. >  > The part which is speaking to you now is hopefully the most intelligent part of the 'ego' which has seen through the charade of life and wants to wake up! You may call our mutual interest in Advaita and Ramana a benign vasana in so far as our most intelligent part has recognised the probability of Truth in this teaching. >  > Your understanding of what Self Enquiry is seems pretty sound to me. The Self's silence (Jnana) we are talking about is dynamic, full of potency, unconditional love and wisdom ,not only absence of noise. >  > I regret I am not very familiar with Thomas Merton or Nagarjuna, my 'knowledge' of Buddhism is somewhat limited. >  > All regards and good wishes, >  > Alan > > --- On Wed, 27/8/08, alan.kuntz <alan.kuntz wrote: > > alan.kuntz <alan.kuntz > Re: SELF ENQUIRY > > Wednesday, 27 August, 2008, 9:44 AM Well I appreciate your thoughts and reply on this Mr Jacobs..What we > do have here are many words, terms with various definitions and so > now what I get are ambigous and debateable terminology with little > meaning. > jnani from the way you use the term i assume means 'knowing' as in > gnosis correct? > > If everythng you are is past habit clusters or vasanas > then who is speaking to me right now?I mean if I eradicate every > vasana would I even be able to sit here and speak or type at all? > Would I as Alan Kuntz even exist?.I may just disappear completely if > that were the case eh? > > Isn't Self enquiry really pretty much like what Nagarjuna said in > Verses from the Center on the the subject of Emptiness or as in the > kenosis ideas of christianity or as Thomas Merton seemed to > understand at least intellectually that 0= infinity..So we are > reducing every 'I " that seems to pop up or come around and > establishes it self as 'I'only to return to silence which is The > SELF.. > > This is a life time practice and as RAMANA SAID SOME WHERE WE NEED TO > BE DILIGENT. > iT TAKE ALONG TIME to even solidify this intellectually efore som e > of us can evn begin to practice so it seems..Hey thanks for your > timee. > Alan Kuntz > > , Alan Jacobs > <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Alan and Sundarajan, > > > > Thanks for raising the question. > > > > The general view of staunch Bhagavan devotees, with whom that I > have discussed this burning question ,is that Bhagavan points out > that the Real Self of Absolute Pure Consciousness (the state of the > Jnani) is occluded or veiled by the vasanas accumalated from this and > previous life times. The sure way to eradicate them is through Self > Enquiry. Otherwise one is still living from the stepped down state of > reflected Consciousness (Chidabasa). It is like looking at the Moon in > a puddle, to use a Vedantic metaphor. Either one feels a strong urge > to Realise the Self or one does not? Sometime, after pondering, and > studying his teachings one may recognise the authoratative Truth of > his advice and proceed. Of course total Surrender to the Self or > Source of one's own being may also succeed, but it is generally > regarded as a longer pracice. > > > > I hope this helps. Other members may care to contribute on this > important topic. > > > > All best wishes and regards, > > > > Alan > > --- On Mon, 25/8/08, alan kuntz <alan.kuntz@ ...> wrote: > > > > alan kuntz <alan.kuntz@ ...> > > Re: SELF ENQUIRY > > > > Monday, 25 August, 2008, 10:08 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a great passage and I often ask myself why would I want to > > engage or try to engage myself in the practice of self enquiry > > unless I had a inkling that there is some particular sense of my > self > > that is either absurd or habitual or less than desirable because it > > is not useful to myself or others in any productive and loving > > altruistic way. I am habituated towards narcissistic compulsive > > attention deficit disorders..IS it wrong to say it is 'sin' > > If that is true what else could drive me towards the enquiry of who > I > > am..?How can the desire to know be there unless there is some > > recognition of the case of mistaken identity? > > Thanks for you time. > > Alan > > > > , Alan Jacobs > > <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > SELF ENQUIRY > > >  > > > Gems from Bhagavan P.15 > > >  > > > Though ancient and timeless sense attachments in the shape of > > vasanas (subtle tendencies) may rise countless like the waves of > the > > sea, they will all be destroyed as dhyana progresses. Without > giving > > any room for doubt whether it would at all be possible to > eradicate > > all these vasanas and be the Self alone, one must take hold > > ceaselessly of dhyana of the Self. However great a sinner one may > be, > > instead of lamenting 'I am a great sinner, how can I make any > > progress?' one must completely forget the fact of one being a > sinner > > and earnestly pursue meditation of Self. He is then sure to succeed. > > >  > > > Dhyana : Self enquiry;  meditation; contemplation; inner > > concentration of attention. turning inwards etc. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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