Gita Study Group 5

[Guest guest]

From Bhagavan's selection of 42 verses from the 700 in the Bhagavad Gita. as the

most important, arranged in an order for guidance.

 

Verse 6 II:20

 

" That is not born, nor does it ever die; nor having been, does It ever cease to

be. That unborn, eternal, abiding, primeval Being is not slain when the body is

slain. "

 

Comment: This verse points to the Immortality of the Self (That which I truly

Am), which does not die when the body dies. It contrasts with the previous

verse, which refers to a rebirth after death, for the Jiva that has failed to

Realise the Self. Further comment is invited.

[Guest guest]

Verse 5 II.27

" For to him who is born death is indeed certain, and so to him who

dies birth is certain. Therefore you should not grieve for the

inevitable. "

 

Verse 6 II:20

" That is not born, nor does it ever die; nor having been, does It ever

cease to be. That unborn, eternal, abiding, primeval Being is not

slain when the body is slain. "

 

Dear Alan and Friends,

 

In these two verses, from my subjective point of view, Bhagavan is

pointing and explaining (through Krishna's words) the different levels

of Reality and how they relate to " Us " or " Me " , in a practical way.

 

Verse II:27 indicates that the disappearance of the gross body at

death does not imply the disappearance of the subtle body, which will

continue to re-incarnate due to the law of Karma and its special

" gluing " power, the Vasanas or " subconscious " tendencies. Gross

dissolves within the elements, subtle and causal reincarnates " in "

another gross form to actualize those latent tendencies. Let's

remember that all this chapter (the beginning of Krishna's

Instruction) is designed to take Arjuna's out of the depression he

fell in, by not wanting to fight a war where he will have to kill his

Grand Uncle, His Teacher, Sages, etc... Krishna explains then that

killing " the body " does not mean the complete extinction of that

particular sentient being. This one level of reality is to be taken

into consideration to overcome grief. Although is the relative,

illusory level, it helps.

 

Verse II:20 goes a step further. the talk is no more about the

illusory Jiva, but instead is about the Atman, the Self, unborn,

uncreated, all pervasive, Turiya, Brahman. Within which there is the

surimposition of the 3 bodies, physical (gross), mental (subtle) and

causal (potential, where the tendencies are stored). The Source of

All. Since it is uncreated or unborn, is out of the time/space

relationship, so it can't die (dying is an event within Time).

Existence (Sat) cannot end, because that will imply someone to BE

THERE to see its ending, which means that someone is still EXISTING.

It cannot be born also because it implies someone being there BEFORE

it is born and see it coming into existence, implying that there is

someone existing already!

 

To my understanding, although these two verses are a couple of threads

in the " big tapestry " of the second chapter, I can feel the guidance

of Bhagavan choosing this order (assuming that he is the one who put

it into this sequence) to bring our minds from the relative to the

Real while " seeing " their differences. A very practical tool to know,

reflect upon and put into practice not only at every moment but

specially when, the moment come, we will have to face hard challenges

dealing with suffering and death, ours and the ones around us.

 

Yours in Bhagavan,

Mouna

[Guest guest]

Dear Mouna,

 

Thank you so much for this pertinent comment for the Gita study group. I must say your interpretation is most illuminating and very haelpful in probing more fully into these verses. I hope we will hear more from you as we proceed.

 

All warm regards and very best wishes,

 

Alan --- On Sun, 31/8/08, upadesa <maunna wrote:

upadesa <maunna Re: Gita Study Group 5 Date: Sunday, 31 August, 2008, 10:17 PM

 

 

Verse 5 II.27"For to him who is born death is indeed certain, and so to him whodies birth is certain. Therefore you should not grieve for theinevitable."Verse 6 II:20"That is not born, nor does it ever die; nor having been, does It evercease to be. That unborn, eternal, abiding, primeval Being is notslain when the body is slain."Dear Alan and Friends,In these two verses, from my subjective point of view, Bhagavan ispointing and explaining (through Krishna's words) the different levelsof Reality and how they relate to "Us" or "Me", in a practical way. Verse II:27 indicates that the disappearance of the gross body atdeath does not imply the disappearance of the subtle body, which willcontinue to re-incarnate due to the law of Karma and its special"gluing" power, the Vasanas or "subconscious" tendencies. Grossdissolves within the elements, subtle and causal reincarnates

"in"another gross form to actualize those latent tendencies. Let'sremember that all this chapter (the beginning of Krishna'sInstruction) is designed to take Arjuna's out of the depression hefell in, by not wanting to fight a war where he will have to kill hisGrand Uncle, His Teacher, Sages, etc... Krishna explains then thatkilling "the body" does not mean the complete extinction of thatparticular sentient being. This one level of reality is to be takeninto consideration to overcome grief. Although is the relative,illusory level, it helps. Verse II:20 goes a step further. the talk is no more about theillusory Jiva, but instead is about the Atman, the Self, unborn,uncreated, all pervasive, Turiya, Brahman. Within which there is thesurimposition of the 3 bodies, physical (gross), mental (subtle) andcausal (potential, where the tendencies are stored). The Source ofAll. Since it is uncreated or

unborn, is out of the time/spacerelationship, so it can't die (dying is an event within Time).Existence (Sat) cannot end, because that will imply someone to BETHERE to see its ending, which means that someone is still EXISTING.It cannot be born also because it implies someone being there BEFOREit is born and see it coming into existence, implying that there issomeone existing already!To my understanding, although these two verses are a couple of threadsin the "big tapestry" of the second chapter, I can feel the guidanceof Bhagavan choosing this order (assuming that he is the one who putit into this sequence) to bring our minds from the relative to theReal while "seeing" their differences. A very practical tool to know,reflect upon and put into practice not only at every moment butspecially when, the moment come, we will have to face hard challengesdealing with suffering and death, ours and the

ones around us.Yours in Bhagavan,Mouna