Guest guest Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 V. 17 GITA STUDY " The faith of everyone is according to his nature O Bharata (another name for Arjuna meaning 'spirit of Ancient India'). Man is essentially endowed with faith. What is faith is, that indeed is he. " XI:54 Bhagavan has chosen this verse to emphasise the need for GREAT FAITH on the path. Essentially that means GREAT FAITH in one's SELF, God, the Sat Guru (Ramana) and his Teaching. In our essence- the Self- faith is there. But what our faith is now, is what we actualy are in the eyes of the Self and God. The Ego's faith wavers and has to be firmed up.. Comment and questions invited on this interesting verse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008  Dear Ones in my life experience FAITH is the driving force behind the search for real meaning in our existence. But generelly faith is used to "wish" something for ones dominant ego. Of course faith in the sparkling light of GD is the main lesson to be learned on the way. And faith that everything we encounter, all illnesses, accidents, tragic events like death of someone dear to us, is a lesson to be accepted wholeheartedly - even with some complaining - in the INNER knowledge that in the end all is "good" for this being. The last sentence i do not really understand: The Egos faith wavers and has to be firmed up... to firm up: what does it mean? Thank you for this wonderful work, Dear Alan.... in His Grace michael - Alan Jacobs Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:23 AM Bhagavad Gita 17 V. 17 GITA STUDY"The faith of everyone is according to his nature O Bharata (another name for Arjuna meaning 'spirit of Ancient India'). Man is essentially endowed with faith. What is faith is, that indeed is he." XI:54Bhagavan has chosen this verse to emphasise the need for GREAT FAITH on the path. Essentially that means GREAT FAITH in one's SELF, God, the Sat Guru (Ramana) and his Teaching. In our essence- the Self- faith is there. But what our faith is now, is what we actualy are in the eyes of the Self and God. The Ego's faith wavers and has to be firmed up..Comment and questions invited on this interesting verse. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.19/1664 - Release 10/09/2008 6.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 Dear Michael, Thanks for your input, so well expressed. The faith of the ego is the ordinary person's or our own idea of what faith is, and we do the best we can to affirm our faith, such as it is. But the mind, or ego wavers, that is it fluctuates from one thing to another, so it has to be made firm and strengthened into Real Great Faith , when we trust with Certainty and will it as truth.. I hope that is clear. Love, Alan --- On Thu, 11/9/08, Michael Bindel <michael.bindel wrote: Michael Bindel <michael.bindelRe: Bhagavad Gita 17 Date: Thursday, 11 September, 2008, 10:22 AM  Dear Ones in my life experience FAITH is the driving force behind the search for real meaning in our existence. But generelly faith is used to "wish" something for ones dominant ego. Of course faith in the sparkling light of GD is the main lesson to be learned on the way. And faith that everything we encounter, all illnesses, accidents, tragic events like death of someone dear to us, is a lesson to be accepted wholeheartedly - even with some complaining - in the INNER knowledge that in the end all is "good" for this being. The last sentence i do not really understand: The Egos faith wavers and has to be firmed up... to firm up: what does it mean? Thank you for this wonderful work, Dear Alan.... in His Grace michael - Alan Jacobs Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:23 AM Bhagavad Gita 17 V. 17 GITA STUDY"The faith of everyone is according to his nature O Bharata (another name for Arjuna meaning 'spirit of Ancient India'). Man is essentially endowed with faith. What is faith is, that indeed is he." XI:54Bhagavan has chosen this verse to emphasise the need for GREAT FAITH on the path. Essentially that means GREAT FAITH in one's SELF, God, the Sat Guru (Ramana) and his Teaching. In our essence- the Self- faith is there. But what our faith is now, is what we actualy are in the eyes of the Self and God. The Ego's faith wavers and has to be firmed up..Comment and questions invited on this interesting verse. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.19/1664 - Release 10/09/2008 6.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > V. 17 GITA STUDY > " The faith of everyone is according to his nature O Bharata (another name for Arjuna meaning 'spirit of Ancient India'). Man is essentially endowed with faith. What is faith is, that indeed is he. " (This verse is XVII:3, not XI:54) > Dear Alan and Friends: I would like to add my voice to the already posted insightful commentaries of this verse by giving some context to it. At the beginning of chapter 17 Arjuna asks a question to Bhagavan Krishna that is related to chapter 16 where Krishna has been telling Arjuna the importance of following the Scriptures' guidelines for everything we do in life, specially for spiritual growth. In Ch.17 Arjuna asks Krishna: " But, O Krishna, what is the state of those who, endued WITH FAITH, adore gods and others by ignoring the Scriptures? Is it sattva, rajas or tamas? " The whole 17th chapter (which the 3rd verse is the one quoted by Bhagavan Ramana) is an expansion of the answer to his question. Krishna explains Arjuna that the Faith of those will depend on the charachteristics of their personality (according to their nature) meaning that a sattvic inclined person will worship Gods that bring spiritual fullfillment, a rajasic type of person will worship in order to gain something for himself like wealth or power, and a tamasic personality will use his Faith for doing wrong or damage either others or his own body. The chapter continues giving guidelines on how to improve and become a sattvic worshipper. As for myself I see here a possibility, another tool to improve the practice of Self-Enquiry, because no matter the nature of my mind/personality/nature, I have to redirect my practice, in the moment, beyond the properties of the body, turn the mind inwards, and that essentially is Sattvic in nature. Yours in Bhagavan, Mouna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 Our dear Mouna, Once again we are indebted to you for bringing greater clarity on to the significance of this important verse. All best wishes and warmest regards, In His grace, Alan --- On Thu, 11/9/08, upadesa <maunna wrote: upadesa <maunna Re: Bhagavad Gita 17 Date: Thursday, 11 September, 2008, 7:08 PM Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote:>> V. 17 GITA STUDY> "The faith of everyone is according to his nature O Bharata (anothername for Arjuna meaning 'spirit of Ancient India'). Man is essentiallyendowed with faith. What is faith is, that indeed is he." (This verseis XVII:3, not XI:54)> Dear Alan and Friends:I would like to add my voice to the already posted insightfulcommentaries of this verse by giving some context to it. At the beginning of chapter 17 Arjuna asks a question to BhagavanKrishna that is related to chapter 16 where Krishna has been tellingArjuna the importance of following the Scriptures' guidelines foreverything we do in life, specially for spiritual growth. In Ch.17Arjuna asks Krishna: "But, O Krishna, what is the state of those who,endued WITH FAITH, adore gods and others by ignoring the Scriptures?Is it sattva, rajas or tamas?"The whole 17th chapter (which the 3rd verse is the one quoted byBhagavan Ramana) is an expansion of the answer to his question.Krishna explains Arjuna that the Faith of those will depend on thecharachteristics of their personality (according to their nature)meaning that a sattvic inclined person will worship Gods that bringspiritual fullfillment, a rajasic type of person will worship in orderto gain something for himself like wealth or power, and a tamasicpersonality will use his Faith for doing wrong or damage either othersor his own body.The chapter continues giving guidelines on how to improve and become asattvic worshipper.As for myself I see here a possibility, another tool to improve thepractice of Self-Enquiry, because no matter the nature of mymind/personality/ nature, I have to redirect my practice, in themoment, beyond the properties of the body, turn the mind inwards, andthat essentially is Sattvic in nature.Yours in Bhagavan,Mouna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Mouna, I like your adding a sentence or two about your sadhana, as the following: " As for myself I see here a possibility, another tool to improve the practice of Self-Enquiry, because no matter the nature of my mind/personality/ nature, I have to redirect my practice, in the moment, beyond the properties of the body, turn the mind inwards, and that essentially is Sattvic in nature. " In Truth, there is the Universal aspect - no longer the limited self. I wonder how to put this aspect in our practice. I mean, how to simultaneously be me, you, him, it, the stone & everything? How to not have the mind that limits us to our limited self? sundar , " upadesa " <maunna wrote: > > Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@> wrote: > > > > V. 17 GITA STUDY > > " The faith of everyone is according to his nature O Bharata (another > name for Arjuna meaning 'spirit of Ancient India'). Man is essentially > endowed with faith. What is faith is, that indeed is he. " (This verse > is XVII:3, not XI:54) > > > > Dear Alan and Friends: > > I would like to add my voice to the already posted insightful > commentaries of this verse by giving some context to it. > At the beginning of chapter 17 Arjuna asks a question to Bhagavan > Krishna that is related to chapter 16 where Krishna has been telling > Arjuna the importance of following the Scriptures' guidelines for > everything we do in life, specially for spiritual growth. In Ch.17 > Arjuna asks Krishna: " But, O Krishna, what is the state of those who, > endued WITH FAITH, adore gods and others by ignoring the Scriptures? > Is it sattva, rajas or tamas? " > The whole 17th chapter (which the 3rd verse is the one quoted by > Bhagavan Ramana) is an expansion of the answer to his question. > Krishna explains Arjuna that the Faith of those will depend on the > charachteristics of their personality (according to their nature) > meaning that a sattvic inclined person will worship Gods that bring > spiritual fullfillment, a rajasic type of person will worship in order > to gain something for himself like wealth or power, and a tamasic > personality will use his Faith for doing wrong or damage either others > or his own body. > The chapter continues giving guidelines on how to improve and become a > sattvic worshipper. > > As for myself I see here a possibility, another tool to improve the > practice of Self-Enquiry, because no matter the nature of my > mind/personality/nature, I have to redirect my practice, in the > moment, beyond the properties of the body, turn the mind inwards, and > that essentially is Sattvic in nature. > > Yours in Bhagavan, > Mouna > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 " Sundararajan " <sundar22ca wrote: > > In Truth, there is the Universal aspect - no longer the limited self. I wonder how to put this aspect in our practice. I mean, how to > simultaneously be me, you, him, it, the stone & everything? > How to not have the mind that limits us to our limited self? Sundar, greetings... How I see it, is that we don't need to put the Universal aspect in our practice, rather to understand that our practice is a manifestation of that Universal aspect, and THIS specific knowledge is the one that we need to assimilate. Glimpses of the Self we all have, but being established and abiding in that Seeing is a different story. I have to be honest with myself, here, there is forgetfulness still. The main problem is not to get identified with the practice itself, and for that, the best practice is the Abidance in the Self!!! It seems paradoxical but it's not, because we KNOW who we are, problem is the different tendencies created in the relative past keep pushing us outwards... Practice weakens those tendencies that obstruct the Understanding from shining forth. All the different " techniques " and " practices " of all true religions can be reduced to patiently coming back home (self-enquiry but with different names), that's all that is required, because each time we come back home we realize that we never left... and someday we won't have the need to go " out " anymore. That " someday " is now. That's all I can say from my point of view this evening. All the best, Sundar. Yours in Bhagavan, Mouna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 " Sundararajan " <sundar22ca wrote: > In Truth, there is the Universal aspect - no longer the limited self. > I wonder how to put this aspect in our practice. I mean, how to > simultaneously be me, you, him, it, the stone & everything? How to not have the mind that limits us to our limited self? > Dear Sundar, greetings again, I just remembered something very interesting that V. Ganesan said two hours ago, while I was attending his satsang here in California. He quoted Bhagavan Ramana saying: " Start from the beginning " And he explained that there are three statements: " I am Mouna (in my case) " " Mouna is a spiritual seeker searching for Self-Realisation " " One day Mouna got Self-Realisation " We usually start from the second one and that's where all the problems arise, instead Bhagavan advices us to start from the very beginning, and what is that? I AM. I AM it's the beginning and the end also. Yours in Bhagavan, Mouna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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