Guest guest Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Just like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder can be corrected, so can we (perhaps) correct the dualistic thinking we are accustomed to.Even an adult brain is plastic. Neuro plasticity - ABC podcast - September 2008Adult brain is a plastic organ.Freud was himself an early neuro plasticien.Can rewire itself through thought, by perceiving, acting & thinking in the world.Past assumption was an annihilistic view that the brain is fixed after a certain age.We lacked technology to detect microscopic changes. This contributed to the incorrect understanding.This resulted in the predominant use of drugs in psychietry to treat. This has gone over board.Brain is animate & not inanimate.Brain may reorganise around even a stroke damage.Obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) patients do have an awareness that this thought does not make sense.This can be used to correct, by focusing on this realisation or thought or adaptive feeling.Remember that it is just your brain and focus on adaptive feelings.Woman with half a brain has been able to function & improve herself in the world.The right managed to take over the functions of the left brain.Things move around in the brain.She was weaker on theme extraction - housed in the right brain.When you understand how the brain works, you can use it to broaden your perspectives.You can change the way the real estate is used.OCD is like a stuck transmission - can't shift out. As a result, it does not make sense to the patient.You know that the door knob is not dirty. But, the brain is stuck in gears.When you know it is a false alarm, you can use it to change the wiring of the alarm system.Self directed neuro plasticity - refocus your attention. Wire-in the brain circuitry changes.Brain lock is weakened using mind based therapy.Willful mind acting on the brain, causes changes.This means the mind & brain are different.Mind is NOT the brain - paradigm shift.We can reproduce a child's plastic brain to some extent.Easier to change brain early on. But, the capacity does NOT stop.It is a question of how much effort you put in.Past assumption was that the critical period (for brain changes) is closed down at a certain age.There is a competitive nature associated with brain plasticity.It is now known that you can learn a second language best through immersion.You give a neuro plastic shock.Culture also reshapes the brain. Culture shock is also a brain shock.Immigrants start looking at things like the Americans after some years.Culture changes processes in the brain.Unlearning is also a plastic phenomenon.There can be a pruning away of connections.Lovers move the brains of their partners. Mothers can change the brains of their beloved kids.The four step method for OCD can be used for other problems - by cognitively realising that the brain should behave differently.People in leadership positions can benefit from such techniques.People in many professions are getting interested.------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Dear Sundar, Thank you-this is a most interesting idea. You say (perhaps) have you yet any idea on what the procedure might be? Speaking personally I am a little uneasy about short cuts to 'awakening' before the vasanas are cleared through self enquiry, surrender, and sadhana.Otherwise the rewired brain might be overlaid on an unpurified egotism. It is rather like Neo Advaita which tell people they are already awake without the need for any sadhana. It is just an overlay on the I thought. I would be interested to read your further views and others on your interesting post.. All best wishes and regards, Alan --- On Sun, 14/9/08, sundar sundararajan <sundar22ca wrote: sundar sundararajan <sundar22ca Dualistic thinking can be corrected? Sunday, 14 September, 2008, 1:28 AM Just like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder can be corrected, so can we (perhaps) correct the dualistic thinking we are accustomed to. Even an adult brain is plastic. Neuro plasticity - ABC podcast - September 2008 Adult brain is a plastic organ. Freud was himself an early neuro plasticien. Can rewire itself through thought, by perceiving, acting & thinking in the world. Past assumption was an annihilistic view that the brain is fixed after a certain age. We lacked technology to detect microscopic changes. This contributed to the incorrect understanding. This resulted in the predominant use of drugs in psychietry to treat. This has gone over board. Brain is animate & not inanimate. Brain may reorganise around even a stroke damage. Obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) patients do have an awareness that this thought does not make sense. This can be used to correct, by focusing on this realisation or thought or adaptive feeling. Remember that it is just your brain and focus on adaptive feelings. Woman with half a brain has been able to function & improve herself in the world. The right managed to take over the functions of the left brain. Things move around in the brain. She was weaker on theme extraction - housed in the right brain. When you understand how the brain works, you can use it to broaden your perspectives. You can change the way the real estate is used. OCD is like a stuck transmission - can't shift out. As a result, it does not make sense to the patient. You know that the door knob is not dirty. But, the brain is stuck in gears. When you know it is a false alarm, you can use it to change the wiring of the alarm system. Self directed neuro plasticity - refocus your attention. Wire-in the brain circuitry changes. Brain lock is weakened using mind based therapy. Willful mind acting on the brain, causes changes. This means the mind & brain are different. Mind is NOT the brain - paradigm shift. We can reproduce a child's plastic brain to some extent. Easier to change brain early on. But, the capacity does NOT stop. It is a question of how much effort you put in. Past assumption was that the critical period (for brain changes) is closed down at a certain age. There is a competitive nature associated with brain plasticity. It is now known that you can learn a second language best through immersion. You give a neuro plastic shock. Culture also reshapes the brain. Culture shock is also a brain shock. Immigrants start looking at things like the Americans after some years. Culture changes processes in the brain. Unlearning is also a plastic phenomenon. There can be a pruning away of connections. Lovers move the brains of their partners. Mothers can change the brains of their beloved kids. The four step method for OCD can be used for other problems - by cognitively realising that the brain should behave differently. People in leadership positions can benefit from such techniques. People in many professions are getting interested. ------------ - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 >You say (perhaps) have you yet any idea on what the procedure might be?Perhaps, atma vichara is the procedure to rewire the brain.>Otherwise the rewired brain might be overlaid on an unpurified egotism. Perhaps, 'rewiring' is the same as 'purification'!!>It is rather like Neo Advaita which tell people they are already awake without the need for any sadhana.This is what Papaji sounds like - No effort is required, you are already awake. Regards,Ram--On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: Dear Sundar, Thank you-this is a most interesting idea. You say (perhaps) have you yet any idea on what the procedure might be? Speaking personally I am a little uneasy about short cuts to 'awakening' before the vasanas are cleared through self enquiry, surrender, and sadhana.Otherwise the rewired brain might be overlaid on an unpurified egotism. It is rather like Neo Advaita which tell people they are already awake without the need for any sadhana. It is just an overlay on the I thought. I would be interested to read your further views and others on your interesting post.. All best wishes and regards, Alan --- On Sun, 14/9/08, sundar sundararajan <sundar22ca wrote: sundar sundararajan <sundar22ca Dualistic thinking can be corrected? Sunday, 14 September, 2008, 1:28 AM Just like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder can be corrected, so can we (perhaps) correct the dualistic thinking we are accustomed to. Even an adult brain is plastic. Neuro plasticity - ABC podcast - September 2008 Adult brain is a plastic organ. Freud was himself an early neuro plasticien. Can rewire itself through thought, by perceiving, acting & thinking in the world. Past assumption was an annihilistic view that the brain is fixed after a certain age. We lacked technology to detect microscopic changes. This contributed to the incorrect understanding. This resulted in the predominant use of drugs in psychietry to treat. This has gone over board. Brain is animate & not inanimate. Brain may reorganise around even a stroke damage. Obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) patients do have an awareness that this thought does not make sense. This can be used to correct, by focusing on this realisation or thought or adaptive feeling. Remember that it is just your brain and focus on adaptive feelings. Woman with half a brain has been able to function & improve herself in the world. The right managed to take over the functions of the left brain. Things move around in the brain. She was weaker on theme extraction - housed in the right brain. When you understand how the brain works, you can use it to broaden your perspectives. You can change the way the real estate is used. OCD is like a stuck transmission - can't shift out. As a result, it does not make sense to the patient. You know that the door knob is not dirty. But, the brain is stuck in gears. When you know it is a false alarm, you can use it to change the wiring of the alarm system. Self directed neuro plasticity - refocus your attention. Wire-in the brain circuitry changes. Brain lock is weakened using mind based therapy. Willful mind acting on the brain, causes changes. This means the mind & brain are different. Mind is NOT the brain - paradigm shift. We can reproduce a child's plastic brain to some extent. Easier to change brain early on. But, the capacity does NOT stop. It is a question of how much effort you put in. Past assumption was that the critical period (for brain changes) is closed down at a certain age. There is a competitive nature associated with brain plasticity. It is now known that you can learn a second language best through immersion. You give a neuro plastic shock. Culture also reshapes the brain. Culture shock is also a brain shock. Immigrants start looking at things like the Americans after some years. Culture changes processes in the brain. Unlearning is also a plastic phenomenon. There can be a pruning away of connections. Lovers move the brains of their partners. Mothers can change the brains of their beloved kids. The four step method for OCD can be used for other problems - by cognitively realising that the brain should behave differently. People in leadership positions can benefit from such techniques. People in many professions are getting interested. ------------ - -- Hunting the 'I' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 O my goodness, Alan....shortcuts TO awakening? A *poem* I wrote recently on what has been seen as THE (Killing the Ego) method TO *awakening* and responded to By Rob Mathews Killing the Ego When I wanted Enlightenment I wanted to kill *my* Ego, then I saw that I am Enlightened and so was my Ego. <<<Rob's *poem*>>>: When I sought Enlightenment All I found was my Ego Then when I clearly saw my ego There was no need for Enlightenment <http://www.yurtworkshop.com/> Yurts for the discerning http://www.mumonkan.co.uk/ Both were posted to Roy Whenary's (author of The Texture Of Being) OpenAwareness/ ~A , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > Dear Sundar, > > Thank you-this is a most interesting idea. You say (perhaps) have you yet any idea on what the procedure might be? > > Speaking personally I am a little uneasy about short cuts to 'awakening' before the vasanas are cleared through self enquiry, surrender, and sadhana.Otherwise the rewired brain might be overlaid on an unpurified egotism. It is rather like Neo Advaita which tell people they are already awake without the need for any sadhana. It is just an overlay on the I thought. > > I would be interested to read your further views and others on your interesting post.. > > All best wishes and regards, > > Alan > > > --- On Sun, 14/9/08, sundar sundararajan <sundar22ca wrote: > > sundar sundararajan <sundar22ca > Dualistic thinking can be corrected? > > Sunday, 14 September, 2008, 1:28 AM > > Just like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder can be corrected, so can we (perhaps) correct the dualistic thinking we are accustomed to. > > > > > Even an adult brain is plastic. > > > > Neuro plasticity - ABC podcast - September 2008 > > Adult brain is a plastic organ. > Freud was himself an early neuro plasticien. > > Can rewire itself through thought, by perceiving, acting & thinking in the world. > > Past assumption was an annihilistic view that the brain is fixed after a certain age. > We lacked technology to detect microscopic changes. This contributed to the incorrect understanding. > This resulted in the predominant use of drugs in psychietry to treat. This has gone over board. > > Brain is animate & not inanimate. > Brain may reorganise around even a stroke damage. > > Obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) patients do have an awareness that this thought does not make sense. > This can be used to correct, by focusing on this realisation or thought or adaptive feeling. > Remember that it is just your brain and focus on adaptive feelings. > > Woman with half a brain has been able to function & improve herself in the world. > The right managed to take over the functions of the left brain. > Things move around in the brain. > She was weaker on theme extraction - housed in the right brain. > > When you understand how the brain works, you can use it to broaden your perspectives. > You can change the way the real estate is used. > > OCD is like a stuck transmission - can't shift out. As a result, it does not make sense to the patient. > You know that the door knob is not dirty. But, the brain is stuck in gears. > When you know it is a false alarm, you can use it to change the wiring of the alarm system. > Self directed neuro plasticity - refocus your attention. Wire-in the brain circuitry changes. > Brain lock is weakened using mind based therapy. > > Willful mind acting on the brain, causes changes. > This means the mind & brain are different. > Mind is NOT the brain - paradigm shift. > > We can reproduce a child's plastic brain to some extent. > Easier to change brain early on. But, the capacity does NOT stop. > It is a question of how much effort you put in. > > Past assumption was that the critical period (for brain changes) is closed down at a certain age. > There is a competitive nature associated with brain plasticity. > It is now known that you can learn a second language best through immersion. > You give a neuro plastic shock. > > Culture also reshapes the brain. Culture shock is also a brain shock. > Immigrants start looking at things like the Americans after some years. > Culture changes processes in the brain. > Unlearning is also a plastic phenomenon. > There can be a pruning away of connections. > > Lovers move the brains of their partners. Mothers can change the brains of their beloved kids. > > The four step method for OCD can be used for other problems - by cognitively realising that the brain should behave differently. > People in leadership positions can benefit from such techniques. > People in many professions are getting interested. > ------------ - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Dear Ram, I think you've probably got it right. Best wishes, Alan --- On Sun, 14/9/08, ram <ramprax wrote: ram <rampraxRe: Dualistic thinking can be corrected? Date: Sunday, 14 September, 2008, 1:18 PM >You say (perhaps) have you yet any idea on what the procedure might be?Perhaps, atma vichara is the procedure to rewire the brain.>Otherwise the rewired brain might be overlaid on an unpurified egotism.Perhaps, 'rewiring' is the same as 'purification'!!>It is rather like Neo Advaita which tell people they are already awake without the need for any sadhana.This is what Papaji sounds like - No effort is required, you are already awake.Regards,Ram-- On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ .co. uk> wrote: Dear Sundar, Thank you-this is a most interesting idea. You say (perhaps) have you yet any idea on what the procedure might be?Speaking personally I am a little uneasy about short cuts to 'awakening' before the vasanas are cleared through self enquiry, surrender, and sadhana.Otherwise the rewired brain might be overlaid on an unpurified egotism. It is rather like Neo Advaita which tell people they are already awake without the need for any sadhana. It is just an overlay on the I thought. I would be interested to read your further views and others on your interesting post..All best wishes and regards,Alan --- On Sun, 14/9/08, sundar sundararajan <sundar22ca > wrote:sundar sundararajan <sundar22ca >Subject: Dualistic thinking can be corrected?Sunday, 14 September, 2008, 1:28 AM Just like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder can be corrected, so can we (perhaps) correct the dualistic thinking we are accustomed to.Even an adult brain is plastic.Neuro plasticity - ABC podcast - September 2008Adult brain is a plastic organ.Freud was himself an early neuro plasticien.Can rewire itself through thought, by perceiving, acting & thinking in the world.Past assumption was an annihilistic view that the brain is fixed after a certain age.We lacked technology to detect microscopic changes. This contributed to the incorrect understanding.This resulted in the predominant use of drugs in psychietry to treat. This has gone over board.Brain is animate & not inanimate.Brain may reorganise around even a stroke damage.Obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) patients do have an awareness that this thought does not make sense.This can be used to correct, by focusing on this realisation or thought or adaptive feeling.Remember that it is just your brain and focus on adaptive feelings.Woman with half a brain has been able to function & improve herself in the world.The right managed to take over the functions of the left brain.Things move around in the brain.She was weaker on theme extraction - housed in the right brain.When you understand how the brain works, you can use it to broaden your perspectives.You can change the way the real estate is used.OCD is like a stuck transmission - can't shift out. As a result, it does not make sense to the patient.You know that the door knob is not dirty. But, the brain is stuck in gears.When you know it is a false alarm, you can use it to change the wiring of the alarm system.Self directed neuro plasticity - refocus your attention. Wire-in the brain circuitry changes.Brain lock is weakened using mind based therapy.Willful mind acting on the brain, causes changes.This means the mind & brain are different.Mind is NOT the brain - paradigm shift.We can reproduce a child's plastic brain to some extent.Easier to change brain early on. But, the capacity does NOT stop.It is a question of how much effort you put in.Past assumption was that the critical period (for brain changes) is closed down at a certain age.There is a competitive nature associated with brain plasticity.It is now known that you can learn a second language best through immersion.You give a neuro plastic shock.Culture also reshapes the brain. Culture shock is also a brain shock.Immigrants start looking at things like the Americans after some years.Culture changes processes in the brain.Unlearning is also a plastic phenomenon.There can be a pruning away of connections.Lovers move the brains of their partners. Mothers can change the brains of their beloved kids.The four step method for OCD can be used for other problems - by cognitively realising that the brain should behave differently.People in leadership positions can benefit from such techniques.People in many professions are getting interested.------------ --- Hunting the 'I' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Dear Sundar, Thank you for making your suggestion more clear. Your suggestion opens up many metaphorical possibilities. When the cinematograph was invented Ramana made full use of it. Perhaps as Ram suggests we are already achieving that process through self enquiry as the procedure for rewiring, and actual rewiring is purification . I note it could be a support practice, and it sounds relatively safe unlike hallucinogenic drugs etc. Anyway thanks for alerting us to a possibility for the future we must keep our third eye on it. Renewed regards, --- On Sun, 14/9/08, Sundararajan <sundar22ca wrote: Sundararajan <sundar22ca Re: Dualistic thinking can be corrected? Sunday, 14 September, 2008, 1:33 PM Alan, Just like the OCD patients, who know that the voice on their heads does not make sense, we also know that the 'I am the body' idea does not make much sense. The treatment given for OCD is to reinforce what their mind tells them & effect favorable brain changes. In our case, we need to reinforce the 'That tvam asi' truth through repeated affirmations, especially when the 'I am the body' thought makes it's mark in our daily life. We can draw more succinct techniques, by learning more about the precise treatments given for OCD patients. I agree with your point that we should avoid just bandages, or overlays as you put it, over the I thought. In fact, what is suggested is a reinforcement of the negation of the I thought (to put it in a convoluted way). Self enquiry leads me very quickly to the mental assertion that I do not know who I am. Beyond that, I do not make much progress in feeling the real I in my heart. The problem I have with surrender is that it retains the person that is trying to surrender. For some reason, the focus on the 'amness' (the real I) as a feeling is also hard to maintain. In conclusion, I would say that the brain chemistry altering method through self assertions about who we really are, need not be a substitute. But, it can be used as another support for the other traditional methods. In some ways, even the traditional methods may have to lead to brain changes. Otherwise, the past memory may remain and bring back the status quo. I would love to hear your and others' views on this. sundar , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Sundar, > > Thank you-this is a most interesting idea. You say (perhaps) have you yet any idea on what the procedure might be? > > Speaking personally I am a little uneasy about short cuts to 'awakening' before the vasanas are cleared through self enquiry, surrender, and sadhana.Otherwise the rewired brain might be overlaid on an unpurified egotism. It is rather like Neo Advaita which tell people they are already awake without the need for any sadhana. It is just an overlay on the I thought. > > I would be interested to read your further views and others on your interesting post.. > > All best wishes and regards, > > Alan > > > --- On Sun, 14/9/08, sundar sundararajan <sundar22ca@ ...> wrote: > > sundar sundararajan <sundar22ca@ ...> > Dualistic thinking can be corrected? > > Sunday, 14 September, 2008, 1:28 AM > > Just like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder can be corrected, so can we (perhaps) correct the dualistic thinking we are accustomed to. > > > > > Even an adult brain is plastic. > > > > Neuro plasticity - ABC podcast - September 2008 > > Adult brain is a plastic organ. > Freud was himself an early neuro plasticien. > > Can rewire itself through thought, by perceiving, acting & thinking in the world. > > Past assumption was an annihilistic view that the brain is fixed after a certain age. > We lacked technology to detect microscopic changes. This contributed to the incorrect understanding. > This resulted in the predominant use of drugs in psychiatry to treat. This has gone over board. > > Brain is animate & not inanimate. > Brain may reorganise around even a stroke damage. > > Obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) patients do have an awareness that this thought does not make sense. > This can be used to correct, by focusing on this realisation or thought or adaptive feeling. > Remember that it is just your brain and focus on adaptive feelings. > > Woman with half a brain has been able to function & improve herself in the world. > The right managed to take over the functions of the left brain. > Things move around in the brain. > She was weaker on theme extraction - housed in the right brain. > > When you understand how the brain works, you can use it to broaden your perspectives. > You can change the way the real estate is used. > > OCD is like a stuck transmission - can't shift out. As a result, it does not make sense to the patient. > You know that the door knob is not dirty. But, the brain is stuck in gears. > When you know it is a false alarm, you can use it to change the wiring of the alarm system. > Self directed neuroplasticity - refocus your attention. Wire-in the brain circuitry changes. > Brain lock is weakened using mind based therapy. > > Willful mind acting on the brain, causes changes. > This means the mind & brain are different. > Mind is NOT the brain - paradigm shift. > > We can reproduce a child's plastic brain to some extent. > Easier to change brain early on. But, the capacity does NOT stop. > It is a question of how much effort you put in. > > Past assumption was that the critical period (for brain changes) is closed down at a certain age. > There is a competitive nature associated with brain plasticity. > It is now known that you can learn a second language best through immersion. > You give a neuro plastic shock. > > Culture also reshapes the brain. Culture shock is also a brain shock. > Immigrants start looking at things like the Americans after some years. > Culture changes processes in the brain. > Unlearning is also a plastic phenomenon. > There can be a pruning away of connections. > > Lovers move the brains of their partners. Mothers can change the brains of their beloved kids. > > The four step method for OCD can be used for other problems - by cognitively realising that the brain should behave differently. > People in leadership positions can benefit from such techniques. > People in many professions are getting interested. > ------------ - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 The question was " dualistic thinking can be corrected " ? It's not a matter of *correction* it's a matter of seeing it through to its logical conclusion...it then rights itself automatically. Prior to... there were neural pathways in the human brain that had not yet (been) *connected*. Once the process starts, it can't help but make endless new connections and what was seen takes on a new *understanding*. That understanding is an intuitive clarity that bypasses ordinary dualistic thinking. It flows from the mind of the *heart*, so to speak. Perhaps we need to clarify dualist thinking. unless we all intuitively agree in our understanding. Namaste. Anna , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > Dear Sundar, > > Thank you for making your suggestion more clear. Your suggestion opens up many metaphorical possibilities. When the cinematograph was invented Ramana made full use of it. Perhaps as Ram suggests we are already achieving that process through self enquiry as the procedure for rewiring, and actual rewiring is purification . I note it could be a support practice, and it sounds relatively safe unlike hallucinogenic drugs etc. Anyway thanks for alerting us to a possibility for the future we must keep our third eye on it. > > Renewed regards, > > > --- On Sun, 14/9/08, Sundararajan <sundar22ca wrote: > > Sundararajan <sundar22ca > Re: Dualistic thinking can be corrected? > > Sunday, 14 September, 2008, 1:33 PM Alan, > Just like the OCD patients, who know that the voice on their heads > does not make sense, we also know that the 'I am the body' idea does > not make much sense. The treatment given for OCD is to reinforce what > their mind tells them & effect favorable brain changes. In our case, > we need to reinforce the 'That tvam asi' truth through repeated > affirmations, especially when the 'I am the body' thought makes it's > mark in our daily life. We can draw more succinct techniques, by > learning more about the precise treatments given for OCD patients. > > I agree with your point that we should avoid just bandages, or > overlays as you put it, over the I thought. In fact, what is suggested > is a reinforcement of the negation of the I thought (to put it in a > convoluted way). > > Self enquiry leads me very quickly to the mental assertion that I do > not know who I am. Beyond that, I do not make much progress in feeling > the real I in my heart. The problem I have with surrender is that it > retains the person that is trying to surrender. For some reason, the > focus on the 'amness' (the real I) as a feeling is also hard to maintain. > > In conclusion, I would say that the brain chemistry altering method > through self assertions about who we really are, need not be a > substitute. But, it can be used as another support for the other > traditional methods. > > In some ways, even the traditional methods may have to lead to brain > changes. Otherwise, the past memory may remain and bring back the > status quo. > > I would love to hear your and others' views on this. > > sundar > , Alan Jacobs > <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Sundar, > > > > Thank you-this is a most interesting idea. You say (perhaps) have > you yet any idea on what the procedure might be? > > > > Speaking personally I am a little uneasy about short cuts to > 'awakening' before the vasanas are cleared through self enquiry, > surrender, and sadhana.Otherwise the rewired brain might be overlaid > on an unpurified egotism. It is rather like Neo Advaita which tell > people they are already awake without the need for any sadhana. It is > just an overlay on the I thought. > > > > I would be interested to read your further views and others on your > interesting post.. > > > > All best wishes and regards, > > > > Alan > > > > > > --- On Sun, 14/9/08, sundar sundararajan <sundar22ca@ ...> wrote: > > > > sundar sundararajan <sundar22ca@ ...> > > Dualistic thinking can be > corrected? > > > > Sunday, 14 September, 2008, 1:28 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder can be corrected, so can we > (perhaps) correct the dualistic thinking we are accustomed to. > > > > > > > > > > Even an adult brain is plastic. > > > > > > > > Neuro plasticity - ABC podcast - September 2008 > > > > Adult brain is a plastic organ. > > Freud was himself an early neuro plasticien. > > > > Can rewire itself through thought, by perceiving, acting & thinking > in the world. > > > > Past assumption was an annihilistic view that the brain is fixed > after a certain age. > > We lacked technology to detect microscopic changes. This contributed > to the incorrect understanding. > > This resulted in the predominant use of drugs in psychiatry to > treat. This has gone over board. > > > > Brain is animate & not inanimate. > > Brain may reorganise around even a stroke damage. > > > > Obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) patients do have an awareness > that this thought does not make sense. > > This can be used to correct, by focusing on this realisation or > thought or adaptive feeling. > > Remember that it is just your brain and focus on adaptive feelings. > > > > Woman with half a brain has been able to function & improve herself > in the world. > > The right managed to take over the functions of the left brain. > > Things move around in the brain. > > She was weaker on theme extraction - housed in the right brain. > > > > When you understand how the brain works, you can use it to broaden > your perspectives. > > You can change the way the real estate is used. > > > > OCD is like a stuck transmission - can't shift out. As a result, it > does not make sense to the patient. > > You know that the door knob is not dirty. But, the brain is stuck in > gears. > > When you know it is a false alarm, you can use it to change the > wiring of the alarm system. > > Self directed neuroplasticity - refocus your attention. Wire-in the > brain circuitry changes. > > Brain lock is weakened using mind based therapy. > > > > Willful mind acting on the brain, causes changes. > > This means the mind & brain are different. > > Mind is NOT the brain - paradigm shift. > > > > We can reproduce a child's plastic brain to some extent. > > Easier to change brain early on. But, the capacity does NOT stop. > > It is a question of how much effort you put in. > > > > Past assumption was that the critical period (for brain changes) is > closed down at a certain age. > > There is a competitive nature associated with brain plasticity. > > It is now known that you can learn a second language best through > immersion. > > You give a neuro plastic shock. > > > > Culture also reshapes the brain. Culture shock is also a brain shock. > > Immigrants start looking at things like the Americans after some years. > > Culture changes processes in the brain. > > Unlearning is also a plastic phenomenon. > > There can be a pruning away of connections. > > > > Lovers move the brains of their partners. Mothers can change the > brains of their beloved kids. > > > > The four step method for OCD can be used for other problems - by > cognitively realising that the brain should behave differently. > > People in leadership positions can benefit from such techniques. > > People in many professions are getting interested. > > ------------ - > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 Dear Anna and Sundar, So as we can clarify this suggestion, perhaps one of you could tell us if a procedure has yet been devised for such a practice and how it works. Is there a parctitioner involved. If so he would have to have considerable knowledge of Advaita if he was to apply it to our brain as an aid or alternative to conventional sadhana? Has it been tested yet? Does it work on a similar principle to Neurolistic Programming or NLP? Best wishes to you both, Alan --- On Mon, 15/9/08, anabebe57 <kailashana wrote: anabebe57 <kailashana Re: Dualistic thinking can be corrected? Monday, 15 September, 2008, 1:07 AM The question was " dualistic thinking can be corrected " ? It's not a matter of *correction* it's a matter of seeing it through to its logical conclusion.. .it then rights itself automatically. Prior to... there were neural pathways in the human brain that had not yet (been) *connected*. Once the process starts, it can't help but make endless new connections and what was seen takes on a new *understanding* . That understanding is an intuitive clarity that bypasses ordinary dualistic thinking. It flows from the mind of the *heart*, so to speak. Perhaps we need to clarify dualist thinking. unless we all intuitively agree in our understanding. Namaste. Anna , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Sundar, > > Thank you for making your suggestion more clear. Your suggestion opens up many metaphorical possibilities. When the cinematograph was invented Ramana made full use of it. Perhaps as Ram suggests we are already achieving that process through self enquiry as the procedure for rewiring, and actual rewiring is purification . I note it could be a support practice, and it sounds relatively safe unlike hallucinogenic drugs etc. Anyway thanks for alerting us to a possibility for the future we must keep our third eye on it. > > Renewed regards, > > > --- On Sun, 14/9/08, Sundararajan <sundar22ca@ ...> wrote: > > Sundararajan <sundar22ca@ ...> > Re: Dualistic thinking can be corrected? > > Sunday, 14 September, 2008, 1:33 PM Alan, > Just like the OCD patients, who know that the voice on their heads > does not make sense, we also know that the 'I am the body' idea does > not make much sense. The treatment given for OCD is to reinforce what > their mind tells them & effect favorable brain changes. In our case, > we need to reinforce the 'That tvam asi' truth through repeated > affirmations, especially when the 'I am the body' thought makes it's > mark in our daily life. We can draw more succinct techniques, by > learning more about the precise treatments given for OCD patients. > > I agree with your point that we should avoid just bandages, or > overlays as you put it, over the I thought. In fact, what is suggested > is a reinforcement of the negation of the I thought (to put it in a > convoluted way). > > Self enquiry leads me very quickly to the mental assertion that I do > not know who I am. Beyond that, I do not make much progress in feeling > the real I in my heart. The problem I have with surrender is that it > retains the person that is trying to surrender. For some reason, the > focus on the 'amness' (the real I) as a feeling is also hard to maintain. > > In conclusion, I would say that the brain chemistry altering method > through self assertions about who we really are, need not be a > substitute. But, it can be used as another support for the other > traditional methods. > > In some ways, even the traditional methods may have to lead to brain > changes. Otherwise, the past memory may remain and bring back the > status quo. > > I would love to hear your and others' views on this. > > sundar > , Alan Jacobs > <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Sundar, > > > > Thank you-this is a most interesting idea. You say (perhaps) have > you yet any idea on what the procedure might be? > > > > Speaking personally I am a little uneasy about short cuts to > 'awakening' before the vasanas are cleared through self enquiry, > surrender, and sadhana.Otherwise the rewired brain might be overlaid > on an unpurified egotism. It is rather like Neo Advaita which tell > people they are already awake without the need for any sadhana. It is > just an overlay on the I thought. > > > > I would be interested to read your further views and others on your > interesting post.. > > > > All best wishes and regards, > > > > Alan > > > > > > --- On Sun, 14/9/08, sundar sundararajan <sundar22ca@ ...> wrote: > > > > sundar sundararajan <sundar22ca@ ...> > > Dualistic thinking can be > corrected? > > > > Sunday, 14 September, 2008, 1:28 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder can be corrected, so can we > (perhaps) correct the dualistic thinking we are accustomed to. > > > > > > > > > > Even an adult brain is plastic. > > > > > > > > Neuro plasticity - ABC podcast - September 2008 > > > > Adult brain is a plastic organ. > > Freud was himself an early neuro plasticien. > > > > Can rewire itself through thought, by perceiving, acting & thinking > in the world. > > > > Past assumption was an annihilistic view that the brain is fixed > after a certain age. > > We lacked technology to detect microscopic changes. This contributed > to the incorrect understanding. > > This resulted in the predominant use of drugs in psychiatry to > treat. This has gone over board. > > > > Brain is animate & not inanimate. > > Brain may reorganise around even a stroke damage. > > > > Obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) patients do have an awareness > that this thought does not make sense. > > This can be used to correct, by focusing on this realisation or > thought or adaptive feeling. > > Remember that it is just your brain and focus on adaptive feelings. > > > > Woman with half a brain has been able to function & improve herself > in the world. > > The right managed to take over the functions of the left brain. > > Things move around in the brain. > > She was weaker on theme extraction - housed in the right brain. > > > > When you understand how the brain works, you can use it to broaden > your perspectives. > > You can change the way the real estate is used. > > > > OCD is like a stuck transmission - can't shift out. As a result, it > does not make sense to the patient. > > You know that the door knob is not dirty. But, the brain is stuck in > gears. > > When you know it is a false alarm, you can use it to change the > wiring of the alarm system. > > Self directed neuroplasticity - refocus your attention. Wire-in the > brain circuitry changes. > > Brain lock is weakened using mind based therapy. > > > > Willful mind acting on the brain, causes changes. > > This means the mind & brain are different. > > Mind is NOT the brain - paradigm shift. > > > > We can reproduce a child's plastic brain to some extent. > > Easier to change brain early on. But, the capacity does NOT stop. > > It is a question of how much effort you put in. > > > > Past assumption was that the critical period (for brain changes) is > closed down at a certain age. > > There is a competitive nature associated with brain plasticity. > > It is now known that you can learn a second language best through > immersion. > > You give a neuro plastic shock. > > > > Culture also reshapes the brain. Culture shock is also a brain shock. > > Immigrants start looking at things like the Americans after some years. > > Culture changes processes in the brain. > > Unlearning is also a plastic phenomenon. > > There can be a pruning away of connections. > > > > Lovers move the brains of their partners. Mothers can change the > brains of their beloved kids. > > > > The four step method for OCD can be used for other problems - by > cognitively realising that the brain should behave differently. > > People in leadership positions can benefit from such techniques. > > People in many professions are getting interested. > > ------------ - > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 Dear Alan, The short answer (and I can only give short answers) is *intent*. If one's intent/objective is present... all one does serves its purpose. Grace alone completes the journey....even as the journey may have taken one to Tibet or India, to many gurus feet, through many behaviour modifications.... ultimately one rests in conscious awareness... quite blissfully....and life continues....in all its duality....for one very good reason... (as our friend Michael would say;-) Blessings of Love to All. Anna -- In , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > Dear Anna and Sundar, > > So as we can clarify this suggestion, perhaps one of you could tell us if a procedure has yet been devised for such a practice and how it works. Is there a parctitioner involved. If so he would have to have considerable knowledge of Advaita if he was to apply it to our brain as an aid or alternative to conventional sadhana? Has it been tested yet? Does it work on a similar principle to Neurolistic Programming or NLP? > > Best wishes to you both, > > Alan > > --- On Mon, 15/9/08, anabebe57 <kailashana wrote: > > anabebe57 <kailashana > Re: Dualistic thinking can be corrected? > > Monday, 15 September, 2008, 1:07 AM The question was " dualistic thinking can be corrected " ? It's not a > matter of *correction* it's a matter of seeing it through to its > logical conclusion.. .it then rights itself automatically. Prior to... > there were neural pathways in the human brain that had not yet (been) > *connected*. > > Once the process starts, it can't help but make endless new > connections and what was seen takes on a new *understanding* . That > understanding is an intuitive clarity that bypasses ordinary dualistic > thinking. It flows from the mind of the *heart*, so to speak. > > Perhaps we need to clarify dualist thinking. unless we all intuitively > agree in our understanding. > > Namaste. > > Anna > > , Alan Jacobs > <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Sundar, > > > > Thank you for making your suggestion more clear. Your suggestion > opens up many metaphorical possibilities. When the cinematograph was > invented Ramana made full use of it. Perhaps as Ram suggests we are > already achieving that process through self enquiry as the procedure > for rewiring, and actual rewiring is purification . I note it could be > a support practice, and it sounds relatively safe unlike > hallucinogenic drugs etc. Anyway thanks for alerting us to a > possibility for the future we must keep our third eye on it. > > > > Renewed regards, > > > > > > --- On Sun, 14/9/08, Sundararajan <sundar22ca@ ...> wrote: > > > > Sundararajan <sundar22ca@ ...> > > Re: Dualistic thinking can > be corrected? > > > > Sunday, 14 September, 2008, 1:33 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alan, > > Just like the OCD patients, who know that the voice on their heads > > does not make sense, we also know that the 'I am the body' idea does > > not make much sense. The treatment given for OCD is to reinforce what > > their mind tells them & effect favorable brain changes. In our case, > > we need to reinforce the 'That tvam asi' truth through repeated > > affirmations, especially when the 'I am the body' thought makes it's > > mark in our daily life. We can draw more succinct techniques, by > > learning more about the precise treatments given for OCD patients. > > > > I agree with your point that we should avoid just bandages, or > > overlays as you put it, over the I thought. In fact, what is suggested > > is a reinforcement of the negation of the I thought (to put it in a > > convoluted way). > > > > Self enquiry leads me very quickly to the mental assertion that I do > > not know who I am. Beyond that, I do not make much progress in feeling > > the real I in my heart. The problem I have with surrender is that it > > retains the person that is trying to surrender. For some reason, the > > focus on the 'amness' (the real I) as a feeling is also hard to > maintain. > > > > In conclusion, I would say that the brain chemistry altering method > > through self assertions about who we really are, need not be a > > substitute. But, it can be used as another support for the other > > traditional methods. > > > > In some ways, even the traditional methods may have to lead to brain > > changes. Otherwise, the past memory may remain and bring back the > > status quo. > > > > I would love to hear your and others' views on this. > > > > sundar > > , Alan Jacobs > > <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sundar, > > > > > > Thank you-this is a most interesting idea. You say (perhaps) have > > you yet any idea on what the procedure might be? > > > > > > Speaking personally I am a little uneasy about short cuts to > > 'awakening' before the vasanas are cleared through self enquiry, > > surrender, and sadhana.Otherwise the rewired brain might be overlaid > > on an unpurified egotism. It is rather like Neo Advaita which tell > > people they are already awake without the need for any sadhana. It is > > just an overlay on the I thought. > > > > > > I would be interested to read your further views and others on your > > interesting post.. > > > > > > All best wishes and regards, > > > > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 14/9/08, sundar sundararajan <sundar22ca@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > sundar sundararajan <sundar22ca@ ...> > > > Dualistic thinking can be > > corrected? > > > > > > Sunday, 14 September, 2008, 1:28 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder can be corrected, so can we > > (perhaps) correct the dualistic thinking we are accustomed to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even an adult brain is plastic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Neuro plasticity - ABC podcast - September 2008 > > > > > > Adult brain is a plastic organ. > > > Freud was himself an early neuro plasticien. > > > > > > Can rewire itself through thought, by perceiving, acting & thinking > > in the world. > > > > > > Past assumption was an annihilistic view that the brain is fixed > > after a certain age. > > > We lacked technology to detect microscopic changes. This contributed > > to the incorrect understanding. > > > This resulted in the predominant use of drugs in psychiatry to > > treat. This has gone over board. > > > > > > Brain is animate & not inanimate. > > > Brain may reorganise around even a stroke damage. > > > > > > Obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) patients do have an awareness > > that this thought does not make sense. > > > This can be used to correct, by focusing on this realisation or > > thought or adaptive feeling. > > > Remember that it is just your brain and focus on adaptive feelings. > > > > > > Woman with half a brain has been able to function & improve herself > > in the world. > > > The right managed to take over the functions of the left brain. > > > Things move around in the brain. > > > She was weaker on theme extraction - housed in the right brain. > > > > > > When you understand how the brain works, you can use it to broaden > > your perspectives. > > > You can change the way the real estate is used. > > > > > > OCD is like a stuck transmission - can't shift out. As a result, it > > does not make sense to the patient. > > > You know that the door knob is not dirty. But, the brain is stuck in > > gears. > > > When you know it is a false alarm, you can use it to change the > > wiring of the alarm system. > > > Self directed neuroplasticity - refocus your attention. Wire-in the > > brain circuitry changes. > > > Brain lock is weakened using mind based therapy. > > > > > > Willful mind acting on the brain, causes changes. > > > This means the mind & brain are different. > > > Mind is NOT the brain - paradigm shift. > > > > > > We can reproduce a child's plastic brain to some extent. > > > Easier to change brain early on. But, the capacity does NOT stop. > > > It is a question of how much effort you put in. > > > > > > Past assumption was that the critical period (for brain changes) is > > closed down at a certain age. > > > There is a competitive nature associated with brain plasticity. > > > It is now known that you can learn a second language best through > > immersion. > > > You give a neuro plastic shock. > > > > > > Culture also reshapes the brain. Culture shock is also a brain shock. > > > Immigrants start looking at things like the Americans after some > years. > > > Culture changes processes in the brain. > > > Unlearning is also a plastic phenomenon. > > > There can be a pruning away of connections. > > > > > > Lovers move the brains of their partners. Mothers can change the > > brains of their beloved kids. > > > > > > The four step method for OCD can be used for other problems - by > > cognitively realising that the brain should behave differently. > > > People in leadership positions can benefit from such techniques. > > > People in many professions are getting interested. > > > ------------ - > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 Dear Anna, Thant makes very good sense, Thank you. Your blessings of love are reciprocated. Alan --- On Mon, 15/9/08, anabebe57 <kailashana wrote: anabebe57 <kailashanaRe: Dualistic thinking can be corrected? Date: Monday, 15 September, 2008, 4:56 AM Dear Alan,The short answer (and I can only give short answers) is *intent*.If one's intent/objective is present... all one does serves itspurpose. Grace alone completes the journey....even as the journey mayhave taken one to Tibet or India, to many gurus feet, through manybehaviour modifications. ... ultimately one rests in consciousawareness... quite blissfully.. ..and life continues... .in all itsduality....for one very good reason... (as our friend Michael wouldsay;-) Blessings of Love to All.Anna-- In , Alan Jacobs<alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Anna and Sundar,> > So as we can clarify this suggestion, perhaps one of you could tellus if a procedure has yet been devised for such a practice and how itworks. Is there a parctitioner involved. If so he would have to haveconsiderable knowledge of Advaita if he was to apply it to our brainas an aid or alternative to conventional sadhana? Has it been testedyet? Does it work on a similar principle to Neurolistic Programming orNLP?> > Best wishes to you both,> > Alan > > --- On Mon, 15/9/08, anabebe57 <kailashana@ ...> wrote:> > anabebe57 <kailashana@ ...>> Re: Dualistic thinking canbe corrected?> > Monday, 15 September, 2008, 1:07 AM> > > > > > > The question was "dualistic thinking can be corrected"? It's not a> matter of *correction* it's a matter of seeing it through to its> logical conclusion.. .it then rights itself automatically. Prior to...> there were neural pathways in the human brain that had not yet (been)> *connected*.> > Once the process starts, it can't help but make endless new> connections and what was seen takes on a new *understanding* . That> understanding is an intuitive clarity that bypasses ordinary dualistic> thinking. It flows from the mind of the *heart*, so to speak.> > Perhaps we need to clarify dualist thinking. unless we all intuitively> agree in our understanding.> > Namaste.> > Anna> > , Alan Jacobs> <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote:> >> > Dear Sundar,> > > > Thank you for making your suggestion more clear. Your suggestion> opens up many metaphorical possibilities. When the cinematograph was> invented Ramana made full use of it. Perhaps as Ram suggests we are> already achieving that process through self enquiry as the procedure> for rewiring, and actual rewiring is purification . I note it could be> a support practice, and it sounds relatively safe unlike> hallucinogenic drugs etc. Anyway thanks for alerting us to a> possibility for the future we must keep our third eye on it.> > > > Renewed regards,> > > > > > --- On Sun, 14/9/08, Sundararajan <sundar22ca@ ...> wrote:> > > > Sundararajan <sundar22ca@ ...>> > Re: Dualistic thinking can> be corrected?> > > > Sunday, 14 September, 2008, 1:33 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alan,> > Just like the OCD patients, who know that the voice on their heads> > does not make sense, we also know that the 'I am the body' idea does> > not make much sense. The treatment given for OCD is to reinforce what> > their mind tells them & effect favorable brain changes. In our case,> > we need to reinforce the 'That tvam asi' truth through repeated> > affirmations, especially when the 'I am the body' thought makes it's> > mark in our daily life. We can draw more succinct techniques, by> > learning more about the precise treatments given for OCD patients.> > > > I agree with your point that we should avoid just bandages, or> > overlays as you put it, over the I thought. In fact, what is suggested> > is a reinforcement of the negation of the I thought (to put it in a> > convoluted way).> > > > Self enquiry leads me very quickly to the mental assertion that I do> > not know who I am. Beyond that, I do not make much progress in feeling> > the real I in my heart. The problem I have with surrender is that it> > retains the person that is trying to surrender. For some reason, the> > focus on the 'amness' (the real I) as a feeling is also hard to> maintain.> > > > In conclusion, I would say that the brain chemistry altering method> > through self assertions about who we really are, need not be a> > substitute. But, it can be used as another support for the other> > traditional methods.> > > > In some ways, even the traditional methods may have to lead to brain> > changes. Otherwise, the past memory may remain and bring back the> > status quo.> > > > I would love to hear your and others' views on this.> > > > sundar > > , Alan Jacobs> > <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sundar, > > > > > > Thank you-this is a most interesting idea. You say (perhaps) have> > you yet any idea on what the procedure might be?> > > > > > Speaking personally I am a little uneasy about short cuts to> > 'awakening' before the vasanas are cleared through self enquiry,> > surrender, and sadhana.Otherwise the rewired brain might be overlaid> > on an unpurified egotism. It is rather like Neo Advaita which tell> > people they are already awake without the need for any sadhana. It is> > just an overlay on the I thought. > > > > > > I would be interested to read your further views and others on your> > interesting post..> > > > > > All best wishes and regards,> > > > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 14/9/08, sundar sundararajan <sundar22ca@ ...> wrote:> > > > > > sundar sundararajan <sundar22ca@ ...>> > > Dualistic thinking can be> > corrected?> > > > > > Sunday, 14 September, 2008, 1:28 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder can be corrected, so can we> > (perhaps) correct the dualistic thinking we are accustomed to.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even an adult brain is plastic.> > > > > > > > > > > > Neuro plasticity - ABC podcast - September 2008> > > > > > Adult brain is a plastic organ.> > > Freud was himself an early neuro plasticien.> > > > > > Can rewire itself through thought, by perceiving, acting & thinking> > in the world.> > > > > > Past assumption was an annihilistic view that the brain is fixed> > after a certain age.> > > We lacked technology to detect microscopic changes. This contributed> > to the incorrect understanding.> > > This resulted in the predominant use of drugs in psychiatry to> > treat. This has gone over board.> > > > > > Brain is animate & not inanimate.> > > Brain may reorganise around even a stroke damage.> > > > > > Obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) patients do have an awareness> > that this thought does not make sense.> > > This can be used to correct, by focusing on this realisation or> > thought or adaptive feeling.> > > Remember that it is just your brain and focus on adaptive feelings.> > > > > > Woman with half a brain has been able to function & improve herself> > in the world.> > > The right managed to take over the functions of the left brain.> > > Things move around in the brain.> > > She was weaker on theme extraction - housed in the right brain.> > > > > > When you understand how the brain works, you can use it to broaden> > your perspectives.> > > You can change the way the real estate is used.> > > > > > OCD is like a stuck transmission - can't shift out. As a result, it> > does not make sense to the patient.> > > You know that the door knob is not dirty. But, the brain is stuck in> > gears.> > > When you know it is a false alarm, you can use it to change the> > wiring of the alarm system.> > > Self directed neuroplasticity - refocus your attention. Wire-in the> > brain circuitry changes.> > > Brain lock is weakened using mind based therapy.> > > > > > Willful mind acting on the brain, causes changes.> > > This means the mind & brain are different.> > > Mind is NOT the brain - paradigm shift.> > > > > > We can reproduce a child's plastic brain to some extent.> > > Easier to change brain early on. But, the capacity does NOT stop.> > > It is a question of how much effort you put in.> > > > > > Past assumption was that the critical period (for brain changes) is> > closed down at a certain age.> > > There is a competitive nature associated with brain plasticity.> > > It is now known that you can learn a second language best through> > immersion.> > > You give a neuro plastic shock.> > > > > > Culture also reshapes the brain. Culture shock is also a brainshock.> > > Immigrants start looking at things like the Americans after some> years.> > > Culture changes processes in the brain.> > > Unlearning is also a plastic phenomenon.> > > There can be a pruning away of connections.> > > > > > Lovers move the brains of their partners. Mothers can change the> > brains of their beloved kids.> > > > > > The four step method for OCD can be used for other problems - by> > cognitively realising that the brain should behave differently.> > > People in leadership positions can benefit from such techniques.> > > People in many professions are getting interested.> > > ------------ -> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008  REGARDING THE ONGOING DISCOURSE ON CAN DUALISTIC THINKING BE CORRECTED Dear friends michael tries to give "his" viewpoint there is the n e e d to surrender completely this persons intentions of course this is "terrible" difficult b u t if we keep reminding ourselves all the time that our personality is n o t r e a l and only the INNER KNOWLEDGE OF SELF I S R E A L than slowly but surely our "thinking structure", the wiring of the neurons, do c h a n g e indeed!!!! This is what i did experience long time ago b u t as long as we stay attached to the EGO -in whatever way it happens- this person gets lost again in the duality happening and beware even the "most holy" priniciples" of our personality structure are used in a "terrible" way by our TRICKSTER, the Ego, to "deceive" us and this is okay! because only thru the following suffering we have the chance to understand what went "wrong"! What did went wrong? We fell in our own personal trap of having "forgotten" that duality does only exist for those who are bound in the ego-world.... the answer following like a stubborn ass - i love these creatures! - the road of LOVE SURRENDING COMPLETE SURRENDER TO THE ONE AND ONLY and having failed and tried again and again i NOTICES THAT THE UNWIRING AND NEW WIRING OF NEURAL CONNECTION is working so please let us all remember this automatism - which of course is GRACE IN ACTION and we will experience ongoing HAPPINESS in this dual world - while remaining firmly connected in the NONDUAL EXISTENCE hoping you all did somehow understand my stuttering which came from the bottom of BEING P.S. as i am at the moment reading and trying to understand SRI CHINMOYS book about Veda Upanishad bhagavadgita please look at the link inserted i am not able to participate at the moment at the ongoing highly intensive work of Alan and all who take part in it will participate later would like to hear from all of you about Sri Chinmoy i agree with most but not completely... its like this: having found Sri Ramana Maharshi what else is needed for this person??? "j u s t" living this truth in His Grace michael Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1671 - Release 14/09/2008 7.16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 wild geese like thought formations return ~A , " Michael Bindel " <michael.bindel wrote: > > REGARDING THE ONGOING DISCOURSE ON > > CAN DUALISTIC THINKING BE CORRECTED > > > > > > Dear friends > > michael tries to give " his " viewpoint > > there is the n e e d to surrender completely this persons intentions > of course this is " terrible " difficult > b u t if we keep reminding ourselves all the time that > > our personality is n o t r e a l > > and only the INNER KNOWLEDGE OF SELF > I S R E A L > > than > slowly but surely > > our " thinking structure " , the wiring of the neurons, do c h a n g e > > indeed!!!! > > This is what i did experience long time ago > > b u t > > > as long as we stay attached to the EGO -in whatever way it happens- > > this person gets lost again in the duality happening > > and beware > > even the " most holy " priniciples " of our personality structure are used in a " terrible " way by our TRICKSTER, the Ego, to " deceive " us > > and this is okay! > > because only thru the following suffering we have the chance to understand what went " wrong " ! > What did went wrong? > We fell in our own personal trap of having " forgotten " that duality does only exist for those who are bound in the ego-world.... > > the answer > > following like a stubborn ass - i love these creatures! - the road of LOVE SURRENDING COMPLETE SURRENDER TO THE ONE AND ONLY > > and having failed and tried again and again i > > NOTICES THAT THE UNWIRING AND NEW WIRING OF NEURAL CONNECTION > > is working > > so please let us all remember this automatism - which of course is GRACE IN ACTION > > and we will experience ongoing HAPPINESS in this dual world - while remaining firmly connected in the NONDUAL EXISTENCE > > > hoping you all did somehow understand my stuttering which came from the bottom of BEING > > > P.S. as i am at the moment reading and trying to understand SRI CHINMOYS book > > about Veda Upanishad bhagavadgita please look at the link inserted > > i am not able to participate at the moment at the ongoing highly intensive work of Alan and all who take part in it > will participate later > > would like to hear from all of you about Sri Chinmoy > > i agree with most but not completely... > > its like this: > > having found Sri Ramana Maharshi what else is needed for this person??? > > " j u s t " living this truth > > > in His Grace > > michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1671 - Release Date: 14/09/2008 7.16 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 -Dear Michael, You should know the problem with Sri Chinoy, a pupil of Aurobindo, as you recently posted the memoirs of Balaram Reddy who pointed out the fundamental disagreement which existed between Bhagavan and Aurobindo. All love, Alan -- In , " Michael Bindel " <michael.bindel wrote: > > REGARDING THE ONGOING DISCOURSE ON > > CAN DUALISTIC THINKING BE CORRECTED > > > > > > Dear friends > > michael tries to give " his " viewpoint > > there is the n e e d to surrender completely this persons intentions > of course this is " terrible " difficult > b u t if we keep reminding ourselves all the time that > > our personality is n o t r e a l > > and only the INNER KNOWLEDGE OF SELF > I S R E A L > > than > slowly but surely > > our " thinking structure " , the wiring of the neurons, do c h a n g e > > indeed!!!! > > This is what i did experience long time ago > > b u t > > > as long as we stay attached to the EGO -in whatever way it happens- > > this person gets lost again in the duality happening > > and beware > > even the " most holy " priniciples " of our personality structure are used in a " terrible " way by our TRICKSTER, the Ego, to " deceive " us > > and this is okay! > > because only thru the following suffering we have the chance to understand what went " wrong " ! > What did went wrong? > We fell in our own personal trap of having " forgotten " that duality does only exist for those who are bound in the ego-world.... > > the answer > > following like a stubborn ass - i love these creatures! - the road of LOVE SURRENDING COMPLETE SURRENDER TO THE ONE AND ONLY > > and having failed and tried again and again i > > NOTICES THAT THE UNWIRING AND NEW WIRING OF NEURAL CONNECTION > > is working > > so please let us all remember this automatism - which of course is GRACE IN ACTION > > and we will experience ongoing HAPPINESS in this dual world - while remaining firmly connected in the NONDUAL EXISTENCE > > > hoping you all did somehow understand my stuttering which came from the bottom of BEING > > > P.S. as i am at the moment reading and trying to understand SRI CHINMOYS book > > about Veda Upanishad bhagavadgita please look at the link inserted > > i am not able to participate at the moment at the ongoing highly intensive work of Alan and all who take part in it > will participate later > > would like to hear from all of you about Sri Chinmoy > > i agree with most but not completely... > > its like this: > > having found Sri Ramana Maharshi what else is needed for this person??? > > " j u s t " living this truth > > > in His Grace > > michael > -- ---------- > > > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1671 - Release Date: 14/09/2008 7.16 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 Dear Alan tku for your welcomed information really i forgot this information this relationsship chinmoy aurobindo and where they differ but i wanted to start to really get to know those Holy Scriptures of the Hindus not ashamed but still wondering how easily it is to err... in His Grace michael - alan jacobs Monday, September 15, 2008 7:54 PM Re: Dualistic thinking can be corrected? -Dear Michael,You should know the problem with Sri Chinoy, a pupil of Aurobindo, as you recently posted the memoirs of Balaram Reddy who pointed out the fundamental disagreement which existed between Bhagavan and Aurobindo.All love,Alan-- In , "Michael Bindel" <michael.bindel wrote:>> REGARDING THE ONGOING DISCOURSE ON > > CAN DUALISTIC THINKING BE CORRECTED> > > > > > Dear friends> > michael tries to give "his" viewpoint> > there is the n e e d to surrender completely this persons intentions > of course this is "terrible" difficult> b u t if we keep reminding ourselves all the time that > > our personality is n o t r e a l> > and only the INNER KNOWLEDGE OF SELF > I S R E A L> > than > slowly but surely> > our "thinking structure", the wiring of the neurons, do c h a n g e> > indeed!!!!> > This is what i did experience long time ago> > b u t> > > as long as we stay attached to the EGO -in whatever way it happens-> > this person gets lost again in the duality happening> > and beware> > even the "most holy" priniciples" of our personality structure are used in a "terrible" way by our TRICKSTER, the Ego, to "deceive" us> > and this is okay!> > because only thru the following suffering we have the chance to understand what went "wrong"!> What did went wrong?> We fell in our own personal trap of having "forgotten" that duality does only exist for those who are bound in the ego-world....> > the answer> > following like a stubborn ass - i love these creatures! - the road of LOVE SURRENDING COMPLETE SURRENDER TO THE ONE AND ONLY> > and having failed and tried again and again i> > NOTICES THAT THE UNWIRING AND NEW WIRING OF NEURAL CONNECTION > > is working> > so please let us all remember this automatism - which of course is GRACE IN ACTION> > and we will experience ongoing HAPPINESS in this dual world - while remaining firmly connected in the NONDUAL EXISTENCE> > > hoping you all did somehow understand my stuttering which came from the bottom of BEING> > > P.S. as i am at the moment reading and trying to understand SRI CHINMOYS book > > about Veda Upanishad bhagavadgita please look at the link inserted> > i am not able to participate at the moment at the ongoing highly intensive work of Alan and all who take part in it> will participate later> > would like to hear from all of you about Sri Chinmoy> > i agree with most but not completely...> > its like this:> > having found Sri Ramana Maharshi what else is needed for this person???> > "j u s t" living this truth> > > in His Grace> > michael> > > > > > > > --> > > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1671 - Release 14/09/2008 7.16> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1672 - Release 15/09/2008 9.21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2008 Report Share Posted September 16, 2008 Alan, I was thinking that we could take some clues from the treatment procedures for OCD patients. For example, when sad feelings arise due to life events, we can make a strong willed statement at the mind level that there is no individual I to be affected by the particular life event. I admit, Sri Ramana's self enquiry, if conducted properly, will yield better results. A quick Google search on neuro plasticity showed the following : To help OCD patients take control of their disorder, Schwartz used mindfulness meditation and its technique of actively noting perceptions as they arise in the mind. By objectively noting their symptoms without emotionally reacting to their symptoms, OCD patients could recognize their disorder as just that: a manifestation of faulty wiring in the brain rather than something irresistible and normative. Schwartz's groundbreaking treatment not only demonstrated that thought can affect brain matter, but that eventually the wiring of the brain would change over time and that less mental force would be required to keep the biochemical imbalance from ricocheting around " the worry circuit. " Indeed, Schwartz's research has implications for other unwanted behaviors such as smoking, alcoholism and overeating. Although people who smoke, drink and overeat know the dangers of their actions, they are content in leaving these actions unchanged. Schwartz proposes that mindful-awareness of these urges can rewire the brains of smokers, drinkers and overeaters all without medication! The Mind and the Brain: Neuroplasticity and the Power of Mental Force, by: Jeffrey M. Schwartz, M.D. and Sharon Begley , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > Dear Anna and Sundar, > > So as we can clarify this suggestion, perhaps one of you could tell us if a procedure has yet been devised for such a practice and how it works. Is there a parctitioner involved. If so he would have to have considerable knowledge of Advaita if he was to apply it to our brain as an aid or alternative to conventional sadhana? Has it been tested yet? Does it work on a similar principle to Neurolistic Programming or NLP? > > Best wishes to you both, > > Alan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2008 Report Share Posted September 16, 2008 Dear Sundar, Thank you this most helpful, because before your first post I had never heard of OCD. Now we have something to ponder. Some years ago before I retired, amongst other things , I was a Professional Life Coach and had NLP training- but OCD is new to me, as I expect it may benew to some other members as well. I note that you believe Self Enquiry, practiced properly, would be a more effective treatment. All best wishes and kind regards, Yours in Bhagavan, Alan --- On Tue, 16/9/08, Sundararajan <sundar22ca wrote: Sundararajan <sundar22caRe: Dualistic thinking can be corrected? Date: Tuesday, 16 September, 2008, 4:17 AM Alan,I was thinking that we could take some clues from the treatmentprocedures for OCD patients. For example, when sad feelings arise dueto life events, we can make a strong willed statement at the mindlevel that there is no individual I to be affected by the particularlife event.I admit, Sri Ramana's self enquiry, if conducted properly, will yieldbetter results.A quick Google search on neuro plasticity showed the following :To help OCD patients take control of their disorder, Schwartz usedmindfulness meditation and its technique of actively notingperceptions as they arise in the mind. By objectively noting theirsymptoms without emotionally reacting to their symptoms, OCD patientscould recognize their disorder as just that: a manifestation of faultywiring in the brain rather than something irresistible and normative.Schwartz's groundbreaking treatment not only demonstrated that thoughtcan affect brain matter, but that eventually the wiring of the brainwould change over time and that less mental force would be required tokeep the biochemical imbalance from ricocheting around "the worrycircuit." Indeed, Schwartz's research has implications for otherunwanted behaviors such as smoking, alcoholism and overeating.Although people who smoke, drink and overeat know the dangers of theiractions, they are content in leaving these actions unchanged. Schwartzproposes that mindful-awareness of these urges can rewire the brainsof smokers, drinkers and overeaters all without medication!The Mind and the Brain: Neuroplasticity and the Power of Mental Force,by: Jeffrey M. Schwartz, M.D. and Sharon Begley, Alan Jacobs<alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Anna and Sundar,> > So as we can clarify this suggestion, perhaps one of you could tellus if a procedure has yet been devised for such a practice and how itworks. Is there a parctitioner involved. If so he would have to haveconsiderable knowledge of Advaita if he was to apply it to our brainas an aid or alternative to conventional sadhana? Has it been testedyet? Does it work on a similar principle to Neurolistic Programming orNLP?> > Best wishes to you both,> > Alan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2008 Report Share Posted September 16, 2008 wild geese like thought formations return -- In , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > Dear Sundar, >  > Thank you this most helpful, because before your first post I had never heard of OCD. Now we have something to ponder. Some years ago before I retired, amongst other things , I was a Professional Life Coach and had NLP training- but OCD is new to me, as I expect it may benew to some other members as well. I note that you believe Self Enquiry, practiced properly, would be a more effective treatment. >  > All best wishes and kind regards, >  > Yours in Bhagavan, >  > Alan > > --- On Tue, 16/9/08, Sundararajan <sundar22ca wrote: > > Sundararajan <sundar22ca > Re: Dualistic thinking can be corrected? > > Tuesday, 16 September, 2008, 4:17 AM Alan, > I was thinking that we could take some clues from the treatment > procedures for OCD patients. For example, when sad feelings arise due > to life events, we can make a strong willed statement at the mind > level that there is no individual I to be affected by the particular > life event. > > I admit, Sri Ramana's self enquiry, if conducted properly, will yield > better results. > > A quick Google search on neuro plasticity showed the following : > > To help OCD patients take control of their disorder, Schwartz used > mindfulness meditation and its technique of actively noting > perceptions as they arise in the mind. By objectively noting their > symptoms without emotionally reacting to their symptoms, OCD patients > could recognize their disorder as just that: a manifestation of faulty > wiring in the brain rather than something irresistible and normative. > Schwartz's groundbreaking treatment not only demonstrated that thought > can affect brain matter, but that eventually the wiring of the brain > would change over time and that less mental force would be required to > keep the biochemical imbalance from ricocheting around " the worry > circuit. " Indeed, Schwartz's research has implications for other > unwanted behaviors such as smoking, alcoholism and overeating. > Although people who smoke, drink and overeat know the dangers of their > actions, they are content in leaving these actions unchanged. Schwartz > proposes that mindful-awareness of these urges can rewire the brains > of smokers, drinkers and overeaters all without medication! > > The Mind and the Brain: Neuroplasticity and the Power of Mental Force, > by: Jeffrey M. Schwartz, M.D. and Sharon Begley > , Alan Jacobs > <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Anna and Sundar, > >  > > So as we can clarify this suggestion, perhaps one of you could tell > us if a procedure has yet been devised for such a practice and how it > works. Is there a parctitioner involved. If so he would have to have > considerable knowledge of Advaita if he was to apply it to our brain > as an aid or alternative to conventional sadhana? Has it been tested > yet? Does it work on a similar principle to Neurolistic Programming or > NLP? > >  > > Best wishes to you both, > >  > > Alan > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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